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I spoke with Jan about Kundalini Shakti about such a case. Here's what he said: You probably had Kundalini arousal, and not awakening. Awakening is possible only when the knots in the subtle body are untied, either by hardcore practice or by Shaktipat. And Kundalini awakening doesn't gurantee bliss asap. It gurantees that awakened kundalini will guide you towards liberation. It's up to you to follow that guidance,

Well, Jan Esmann, the "kundalini master" says that you can't even gain Self Realization without Kundalini generally, except in "rare cases". I wonder if a lot of people have active Kundalini and don't know it though. I have, for years, had all the signs / symptoms of K awakening / activity yet I didn't get the "extreme bliss" that supposedly HAS TO come with it. Which made me think for years there was something wrong with me as I was doing K yoga and other stuff, recieved Jan's "shaktipat in absentia" ($100 necklace) and nada...

@AlphaAbundance Me too, severely. What’s great about not suffering is not suffering. If your scale is based on 0 - 20 and suffering is 10 - 20 range, and joy is 3 - that is not actually joy. That is “joy” experienced through a thought story. Like how a tiny bit of light might be shining through a window that is 99% draped. Something terrible is observed, “joy” instantly goes from 3 to 0. JOY is no drape at all. Every cell is elated! No line between where a body ends and bliss begins, the body is bliss! THAT is JOY. Something terrible is observed.....JOY sky rockets!! There is no drape, all is illuminated! No more RE-ACTing, (repeating). Over and over, never ending - RE- JOY-cing. Around here, “seeking” has a microcosm definition based on the existence of and defeating of, an “ego”. So consider a meaning for “seeking” as more broad than this forum, spirituality, etc. More broad than “beating an ego to death”. If only for this post / explanation, let’s define suffering as experiencing a thought story, and seeking as trying to experience reality as it is (Actuality). Using a similar scale analogy.... Person A: Suffering is 5. Seeking is 5. Occasional joy. Person B: Suffering is 1. Seeking is 1. Occasional joy. Person C: Suffering is 10. Seeking is 10. No joy. BUT...Though Person C is suffering at 10, they are also seeking at 10. Person C ain’t messing around here. Suffering to Person C is not a game, they do not take it lightly, they don’t have time for wasting. Person C isn’t “meditating once and a while”. Person C isn’t “considering trying psychedelics”. Person C WILL END THE SUFFERING, NO THING WILL STOP THEM. So eventually, Person C awakens. Now, Person C .... Person C. Suffering 0. Seeking 0. JOY, &. RE-JOYcing. *Again, keep in mind that living life via a thought story is suffering. “Can you describe it?” Yes. Reality as it is. No thought stories. When one ignores sensations, thinking then supplies a thought story to accommodate the ignore-ance. Thought story “makes sense” of the experience, but does not include the simple fact that one has ignored the sensations. Why not? Because it’s thinking. It is not sensations. Thinking has no need for concern of sensations, nor concern of the avoidance / ignore-ance of sensations.

@Truth Addict Yes that is correct. The intentions really don't matter in the end because all fall away at the last moment. Enlightenment isn't ever what you think it is. It's not God realization, those are just in the mind. The experience if you want to call it that is completely indescribable. Calling it void and bliss is already too much. Enlightenment doesn't resolve the paradoxes of the mind by giving verbal answers - all those are still allegories and metaphors. It is what it is.

@Leo Gura I appreciate what you are saying. But why do you still refer to yourself as you, and why are you often quite unpleasant? I appreciate you taking the time to write to me, but I always get the impression you're angry, when all I am doing is looking for a way to find out the true nature of our reality and to stop suffering. @FoxFoxFox What I struggle with is when people on here refer to as other people. Like they're a separate entity. If people were unique entities, I could accept a lot of things. The break up does hurt, yes. Well, the memories do. I still have her dressing gown at my house and the smell of it as I walk past it on the door makes me cry. It brings back the amazing nights we spent together. I started the anti depressants not just because of the break up. I have been struggling since the turn of the year. Like I say, a lot of the colour has been drained out of me when I came to realise that there is no 'me'. It's a mental fabrication. Therefore. there is no one else, either. For 26 years, I have pretty much based my entire life motivation on ensuring that others have a good time and feel appreciated. I don't know what I have left now. @Shaun I'm not sure why everyone automatically agrees with Leo. You don't have to, I guess. You see, I'm not even totally convinced we are one consciousness experiencing itself. I believe consciousness is a process of the brain, actually. But even then, there is still no self. There is no part of what you think of as you, is 'you'. This makes life very difficult. If you're a materialist, could you say what makes you 'you' is your genetics, and your DNA? I don't know. What do you mean that my finite mind is not the only one? I will check out Spira, thanks for that. Nice to hear from someone going through the same thing. @Aakash Sometimes I wonder whether an unconscious life is actually the real bliss. Ignorance is bliss, as they say

@Truth Addict Well, life will smack you on the head and then you won't be happy. In fact you will be miserable. As long as a trace of "I-ness" remains, there is potential for suffering. Bliss is the Self's nature. To the Self it doesn't matter what the actors on the stage say or do, whether they live on or die. The Self will remain eternally blissful. Ultimately the choice is yours. If you believe you are already happy and that you do not lack anything, there is no reason to search for enlightenment.

@Truth Addict True happiness is a great indicator of progress towards liberation. True happiness is not derived from objects, but within, without any reasons whatsoever. Bliss is our real nature.

@Highest how do I start that? There is no me. The Self if an illusion. I'm genuinely not so far away from just throwing myself off a bridge because this is all too much to handle. I don't see how bliss or happiness can be achieved here. I need practical steps.

It's just a jhana, there's more levels, sometimes I go up the jhanas sometimes not. It's a lovely place to be though and lately the bliss has been coming in more I have had more advanced jhanas occur and then samadhi's where time vanishes completely and I come out and hours have passed in what seemed like minutes. Still not enlightenment.

Like? I was looking for something different in the recent "Becoming God" video. I was sooooo carefully listening to learn something new. But, I know it's just more of infinity: Nothingness transforming into everythingness transforming into singularity (aka, Riding the Ox Backwards/black hole) transforming back into ego with love / "bliss." Ok, Leo. Yeah, if you had that bliss 13 times, you would experience tears of joy in your ego. Take your time. It's not easy to make your life purpose completely communicating well to all the viewers.

so it would be to constantly keep lossing identification with everything and remaining aware of being aware so much seasons don't pass, nothing is happening and everything is bliss. I see and finally how does one conduct themselves without knowing whats ahead?

I have / have had all of these, except for "utter blissness" bliss, and my K is unawakened apparently. I have also tried a lot to awaken it including this shaktipat necklace from Jan Esmann, years of K yoga...nada. Jan btw says you can't self realize without Kundalini, which is clearly incorrect. Fingers are tingling as we speak as it happens. What I do think, is that as the ego dissolves, or rather the conditionings dissolve, and Self within you gets clearer, your energy bodies develop too or become more noticable, and vice versa.

@Dumb Enlightened my kundalini is very awake, ask away. Mine got awakend 10 months ago on an sds sit, my crown chakra blew open 2 hours into the sit after I truly gave up to the pain. when it happend I thought I was enlightened cause energy was pouring out of the top of my head for about 3 minutes. ego came back in after about 5 minutes of sitting in a state of bliss. since then these are my symptoms. -3 rd eye opened & pulsates all day long -spinning sensations during mediation -Krya’s or jerking body sensations or pulsating. -nightnares -crying or purging, I never cry. -tingling all over my body -feelings of tingling or re-wiring in my head -hours of bliss & bad anxiety, the best of both worlds -this energy is no joke at all, if you actually ever awaken it just let it do it’s thing, it’s purging past traumas & it’s smarter then you, let it do it’s thing. Also I didn’t choose kundalini, it chose me, all I knew about was enlightenment, I had no clue what kundalini was. there’s even more shit that I can’t even rember, there’s a good book on Leo’s list enlightenment through the path of kundalini really helped me a lot. You don’t need kundalini to become enlightened but it’s a good pre-requisite in many cases.

What do you do on the path when you feel boredom / emptiness? NOTHING at all excites me anymore. The idea of new hobbies / friendships / relationships / events / etc all seem pointless to even bother doing because...everything is just..empty. I no longer watch tv, listen to music, watch movies and play video games because they also seem pointless, don't capture my attention and don't provide entertainment either, most of the time I am more aware when doing so that I am staring at a tv screen with pixels on it than getting engrossed in the content. The only thing that isn't boring is meditation due to the bliss felt more and more however I am aware that's a trap so I try not to do that too much. I'm not nihilistic though, I don't feel like my life as awareness is pointless, rather that everything external to me inside my awareness is pointless. I haven't been here before. I don't know what to do. I don't know if it's like, "the last refuges of the mind dissolving" or something like that, or just depression. Ie I don't know if it's a good or bad thing.

@Leo Gura Yes Leo , maybe it's time to listen some of the fully enlightened masters and stopping fantasizing . Like Osho said '' Yoga is just spitirual gymnastic for the body'' . One more time , you are confusing mystical experiences , bliss , infinite love , with enlightenment , you can't let go of that

@mandyjw No. I'm not even approaching this from a logical standpoint. There exists an imminent reality that is simultaneously experienced by everyone. It is void and bliss. It doesn't matter what the relative content of your consciousness is, it doesn't affect the Self. And really, there is no identification inherent to the Self, from which these words are springing out.

@Serotoninluv No. There is no I. Don't infer the existence of I from what you read. There is no identification with anything. Why? Because it persists even when the mind is under anesthesia. There is just a gentle recognition of void and bliss. There is no one who is experiencing this. It just is. Before I am, before I-I, before I. So again, no. There is no I. Only an appearance of it to you.

@FoxFoxFox I once asked Ralston about yogis and kundalini. He laughed and said that yogis are not really enlightened. Whatever that means. The bliss you can definitely experience on psychedelics. Very strong doses of 5-MeO-DMT also activate kundalini although I'm not sure if it's being activated safely. On my highest dose ever of 5-MeO-DMT, the consciousness was so powerful that it was too much to handle and I felt kundalini shoot out of my fingertips like force lightening, resulting in skin damage to my fingertips. It was a very freaky experience bordering on the paranormal. I don't think it was healthy. But damn was it powerful. I have never had kundalini activation on 5-MeO-DMT except that one time. That was a very large dose which I would not want to take again. To be any more conscious you'd be so conscious you'd physically pass out.

@Leo Gura Ah it's great to hear that then. Always glad to know people are not being mislead by pseudo-gurus. I personally don't study neo-advaitans much because there's just so much potential for disaster. I also believe it's possible to self-realize without Kundalini, but i don't think it would be possible to realize the bliss aspect of God without it. It's a shame that Ralston (like Adyashanti!) won't dive deeper into the shakti. Honestly i don't see how one could move from God-consciousness to unity consciousness without it. The important thing is to stress losing the identification mechanism. That is more than enough reason to bow down in recognition.

@Aakash Witness the mind, the emotions, and the body. Really become conscious of the fact that they are phenomena that you become aware of, rather than owning them. That is to say, step out of "I-am". Normally you say, I am a body, or I am angry, or I have a thought. Stop that paradigm. Instead of being the owner, become the witness. The next step is to become aware of "I-I", and you do this by turning awareness on the fact that you are owning awareness. You believe that you are a someone that is the owner of awareness, no matter how subtle this someone might be. You believe that you are a body-less being that is becoming aware of stuff. Well this notion must also go, and you that by silencing the mind and gradually merging into awareness - that is becoming one with it rather than objectifying and owning it. The "I-I" will then become even more subtle. It will just become "I". That is, the subtlest feeling of being that is totally pulled back from objects. For this to break apart, awareness and mindfulness is not enough. You need intensity. You need to build up internal energy and become 'charged' so to speak. You will need longing, and desire, and devotion. Your whole world should become giving up this "I-ness". You should lament your inability and experience anguish. At the same time, you must stop the mind from theorizing its way into your core. No matter what the mind comes up with, know that the answers are not verbal. I personally recommend you practice Kriya and Kundalini yoga at this point. Eventually, something will take hold of you. Energy will begin raising within you and you have to surrender to it. You have to let it take a hold of you and possess you. You will have to let go. The more intense you feel this energy, the easier surrender becomes because the force will be too overwhelming for you to resist. At this point you will probably shake and be in tears and might even lose consciousness and slip into nirvikalpa samadhi. Once the perceptions return and the mind begins recreating the world, there will be no longer any identification. Only void, and then bliss.

Outside of Winterknight I don't see this being talked about enough, and even he doesn't say it directly. This is the crux of self-realization. Nothing else matters. In this forum people are mostly interested in the relative content of the mind. Everyone is asking questions about morality, God, emotions, fear etc. Well sorry but none of these have anything to do with enlightenment. Also, you can't judge a person's enlightenment by what he believes in, because that stuff (again) has nothing to do with enlightenment. This is a misunderstanding that the mind of the enlightened person cannot hold beliefs etc. The only thing that does matter is identification. That is identification with the mind, the ego, the body, awareness etc. The typical person identifies with objects: I am this or that. The non-dual person identifies with: I am. Self-inquiry practitioners identify with: I-I. The self-realized person does not identify with any form of I, no matter how subtle, whatsoever. If this is the compass of your path, you will make it. If not you won't. What ends up happening is that through intensity of longing, surrender, witnessing and devotion your identification mechanisms will break down. You will never, ever go back to the illusions. What is the initial experience after enlightenment? Void would be saying too much. So ask yourself, is the only thing that there is void? If not, then you are deluded.

It depends on what you call samadhi. Different people use different definitions, where they make distinctions between stages of samadhi or call those stages some other name and give the label samadhi to the highest experience. If you have had only single samadhi experience then it's hard to pinpoint where it exactly belongs. The whole thing is further complicated by the fact that these experiences come in many flavors. The one samadhi that had happened to me came in a "no-self flavor". That means I forgot my name, who I am or what I think I am and everything became one, then bliss filled the whole space. The concepts of me and mine became very alien, they were perceived like a costume that I could choose to wear or not. I believe it was a lesser samadhi, so others may give you a deeper, more accurate answer of how it feels.

The time has come to post my second report. After a year or so of kriya yoga i can honestly say that this technique has helped me a lot. I have done a practise everyday for at least 50 minutes. The biggest gains in my experience: - hearing sounds: the last sessions i am starting to hear sounds from far away. When i close my ears i still hear them; - seeing lights: there is a white light sometimes. Cant say it is on the inside or outside, very strang but not scary; - a lot of energy in my spine the last few months, it is crazy; - a lot of pressure on my forehead. At the beginning of my practise it was light but it is getting crazier now; - the ability to shut off my thoughts for hours if I want to; - the ability to just sit and feel a deep joy. Dont know how to call this. Maybe bliss is the best word; - during the day a lot of random insights, which are not caused by thinking. Sometimes i just start laughing out of the blue. In my class they sometimes think i am crazy. Everybody is on there phone the entire time when there is nothing to do, but not me. I just look to the wall and sometimes just start laughing when it is silent; - the day is a very effortless flow; - i am starting to work slower. Another report in 6 months.

It's impossible to conceptualize about post-awakening state. It's safe to say that you're life as body-mind would be over; only other people will see your body moving and doing shit. One probably wouldn't take on this intense journey unless they are utterly dis-satisfied with their so called present life anyway. So there is really no lose. Just the satisfaction of being relieved of a hideous cancer called ''me and my life''. So the teaching says get enlightened first. Then the notion of how to live afterwards can be addressed if its needed (which it won't) Yes follow that only aware element in your experience. That is what you really call 'I', the perceiver. But notice that you also see everything you are not along the way. So you have to make sure that you are not focusing on some subtle phenomena as 'I'. The deeper you go, your mind will be absolutely silent and it will feel pure bliss. Not a bodily bliss but something that can't be located. Everything else will feel very relaxed. Witnessing is something you are already doing in self-inquiry where you are noticing that you are not the phenomena that are popping up. But don't witness as a separate subject located in the head in the back. That is actually identifying the 'I' with some subtle sensations and it won't help you much to wake up.

@Preetom Well the thing is staying with the 'I' is not gonna make it vanish. It actually reinforces it because you are feeding it energy by validating its existence. You have to question it and keep showing yourself that you can't find it anywhere. The void, along with bliss are facets of the Self. They are its inherent qualities we could say. But most people will only get the void first. It's the recognition that nothing has an qualities of by itself. For example, look at a flower. Realize that all attributes of this flower are given to it by the mind. For example you could say it's a beautiful, red flower. But neither of those descriptions are actually properties of the flower, right? They are projections. If you continue exploring in that direction you realize that the world suddenly vanishes. Everything literally becomes one, because no distinctions are being projected. Moreover, the fact that you can even project things shows you that all these properties are actually properties of you. For example, beauty is not really a property of the flower, it's really YOUR beauty that gets projected. It's a recognition. It also continues to evolve and get deeper and deeper. That is why i sometimes talk about stages of enlightenment because the experience gets richer and richer. Don't get caught up in mind games. it really doesn't matter how you phrase sentences, or even if you use the first person nominative. These are all relative stuff. Try and recognize the void.