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@who chit I've never heard that quote before. I like it. Good to meet you. @Serotoninluv Thank you for sharing your observations. Very helpful. It seems like I'm cycling between #2 "like seeing the most amazing sunset of your life and wishing someone could appreciate and share it's beauty with me" and #3 "stillness, peace, bliss, nothingness" though #3 only seems to happen for me when I'm in solitude. I'll keep practicing. Good to meet you. @Nahm You're right. The word "alone" is part of the problem. Thank you for pointing out that block. Those are great suggestions and I appreciate the offer. I may take you up on that. I feel like I have come to the right place on this forum. Good to meet you.

@Javfly33 "Is enlightment the only way to escape from being chained to states of mind?" I suppose people have different definitions and concepts of "enlightenment", yet the closest I could come is just an ISness. It would be like asking "Is enlightenment the only way to escape from what IS?". How can what is be escaped from? This was one of the most uncomfortable direct experiences I've had. I realized I couldn't change what IS. Anything I did was ISness. Anything that happened was ISness. I was in nature and went into an insanity zone. I wanted to jump off a bridge "ISness". I was afraid I'd start screaming. ISness. Yet if I didn't scream, ISness. I could throw things and break branches. ISness. I got online to send Leo a PM for help. ISness. Anything Leo would say to me: ISness. He couldn't not be ISness. He couldn't make it stop either. If I was chained to mind states of the mind. ISness. If I was unchained from states of mind. ISness. There was no escape. Period. And it was terrifying. After about two hours there was a type of surrender to what IS. There terror turned to joy. I started laughing and singing. I pointed to ducks gleefully saying "A duck is a duck!". "Hello cloud! A cloud is a cloud!". Yet the joy and bliss was equally IS as the terror. Enlightenment just IS. It doesn't care about whether or not my personality is happy, sad, blissful or crazy. What IS will always be what IS. Even if I try to think about things differently - it's one IS or another IS. IS always IS. There is no escape. You are zero steps from enlightenment right now. With this type of awakening, the min-body body changes. The relationship with reality changes. Many mind-body's many settle down and experience life differently. The realization may relax some blocks. Or maybe not. What if someone had that realization and went insane? Or the mind-body had a nervous breakdown? It's still ISness. It's still enlightenment. There is no escape. For my mind-body, there has been a major relaxation of the mind-body. This has opened up realms of experience I've never knew existed. Now that my mind-body realizes there is no way out of ISness, it chilled out and is much better going with the flow. At the human level, a curiosity about the personality dynamics has arisen. Much of the internal personality has been deconstructed, yet not all. As well, a desire to explore body sensations and connections to energies has arisen. There is much less wanting to get "my way" or to reach "my goals", or become something or to avoid something. One insight I've had is that I'm chained until I'm not chained. And it can happen in an instant. I've sat and just observed those chains. Sometimes they just disappear. There is noone that comes in and removes them. There is no guru or spiritual text. No achievement. No getting there. It always occurs in the moment. It's there and then it's not there. It's impossible. Yet it just happened. Once the mind realizes the impossible is possible a whole new reality opens up. Currently I am working to rewire my brain. Parts of me thinks "that is impossible" or "humans won't be able to do that for hundreds of years". Yet here I am, seeing the impossible arise.

@EmptyInside Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I also live alone and can relate to the emotions / experiences you describe. I used to group all the emotions into "emptiness / loneliness", yet as I've observed body sensations, I've noticed some nuances between the emotions. 1. Generic loneliness: sometimes my mind-body gets uncomfortable, bored and discouraged being alone. The mind may think things like "why don't I have more friends? Maybe I should go out more and try to be social. Chuck and Stacey look so happy together, maybe I'd be happier if I lived with someone". 2. Then there is a deeper loneliness and a yearning to connect deeply with someone. To really open up and explore who we are and bond. To share depth of experience - not the trivial noise of the rat race of life. I've felt this more as I've gone deeper into consciousness work. There are less people I can connect with. I've searched in my area for a year and found one person I can talk to this about. This type of loneliness is more of a deep sadness. I may have a profound insight and there is no one in my life who would understand. There is a profound yearning to connect on these deeper insight levels. I've tried to bring people along, like a gf, and it doesn't work. It's sort of like seeing the most amazing sunset of your life and wishing someone could appreciate and share it's beauty with me. 3. Then there is what I would call true emptiness. The stuff buddhists, mystics and spiritualists speak of. This transcends the above two forms of loneliness. This is an absolute emptiness that comes prior to all descriptions and emotions. Some people call it stillness, peace, bliss, nothingness. This is independent of external conditions. It transcends all. It is present whether I am alone or with someone.

Lisa Cairns spoke around this issue and was deeply healing at one point to understand. There's waking up to what you are and knowing that which can have its own side psychological healing effects on ones self AND then theres the persistence of habit/body/trauma/brain-nervous system stuff which there are methods and things that can be done/learned/time put into that will heal those things which leads to less suffering, more natural states of bliss. And yes there are HUGE, lol, awakenings that can happen that heal everything in one go, and everything in between these two paragraphs (but you can't try this or any type of awakening to happen like this). To "do" or put effort in either of these forms of discovery does not equate suffering either. And yes there are those that will be very fulfilled, still have arisals of discomfort/trauma and what not and have no interest in changing and be fufilled/not-at odds with the choice. This is a really good question and more spiritual people should really understand these subtitles because many spiritual ego's are stuck as a result of this question since a lot of "ego's" are about abiding by certain rules and if its not obeyed, they are wrong or others are wrong and this generally equates to a type of contraction and suffering.

To an extent, her situation seems to be relatable. Her meditative states are like that of after tastes from enlightenment moments, which tend to not last too long, as they always talk about. When the after taste disappears, she's back to her normal ego self. Seems like there's an on and off button between her ego state to her meditative state; as if her meditation doesn't even affect her ego at all and always sees life as the same levels of torture (being the victim in life). I personally doubt that's the case. It may only be a matter of time until the ego starts to change. And if it is the case, some variety in her types of meditation might help. It feels like her type of meditation is a way to feel instant bliss than actual ego work. And if it is trauma, meditation still seems like a good solution. Me no doctor. Edit: Fk me, pretty sure i still mis understood the situation. So, the problems lies in the fact that she's not able to get into a meditative state when she shits. And the fact that she can't get to that meditative state when taking a shit, pretty much brings back her ego.

I don't think this is a unique situation. I only have two people in "real life" that I can talk nonduality and one of them is a bit unstable, so really just one person I can talk with on a regular basis. And that is after about a year of searching. . . I spent two years with nobody to talk to about it in real life. Just people online and I traveled to Peru to live in a high conscious community for a while. The question about personal identification is hard to answer. I would say about 70% of what most people consider the "person" has dissolved. For example, in the past when I went out with people, I would talk a lot about me and my story with an underlying intent to serve self needs - to look good, get approval, get the gal to like me etc. I was really immersed and identified with the story. Now, it just kinda feels like a movie I watched or a book I read. Somebody might ask where I grew up or what I do in life. It just sounds differently to me now, like I am talking about a movie character. I also don't have all the opinions and beliefs I used to have. There isn't such a desire for things to go "my way". I'm much more fluid with the flow of life. Yet, I talk about "my" story often in spiritual contexts - yet it is more like talking about a movie I watched. I tell "personal stories" as examples, because I know them best. They can be useful for human interaction and connection. Letting go of the attachment and identification was really hard for me. My mind-body experienced a lot of anxiety and fear. Especially about the unknown. Yet walking through that and letting go, is sooo much more peaceful and easy-going. Trying to protect and maintain a psychological self is sooo draining and causes so much suffering. I would say that the personality is still around in a sense. I used to think that I needed to get rid of anything "personal" and I needed to be like some empty no-self monk that was in a state of empty bliss all the time. . . That isn't my experience. My mind-body still gets grouchy. It still gets annoyed. It still experiences fear, love and sorrow. It is part of the human experience. Yet the attachment, identification and desire to meet self-needs and wants has greatly reduced. This opened up a whole new realm I never new existed. I should also probably add that my environment is pretty calm and peaceful. I have a steady job and feel financially secure. I live alone in a quiet house and neighborhood. I don't have the responsibilities of being a parent. So, in that respect it may be easier for my mind-body to relax and go with the flow. Who knows, I'm just following intuition and "winging it" at this point. . . It's just getting created out of thin air and I don't know where this train is heading. . .

There’s always more to learn experience and go through. It’s a good attitude to have in my opinion. It’s not a should or a must. But keeps one modest and open. But really it’s always the beginning and the end. The total is in all places and in all views. There isn’t a spot and there isn’t a spot where everything is not fully there. In regards if there is emotional mastery or permentant bliss embodiments, I don’t see why not. Anything’s possible. But if you go out seeking and always frustrated that this has not been reached, your in for some unsatisfaction along that destination most likely.

In order for us to grow we have to deal with the pain, face and transcend our fears, experience suffering/darkness. You cannot skip all of this and be in eternal bliss/freedom/light. If i didn't go through all the darkness i went through i wouldn't be where i am today. The most peaceful and humble person has usually suffered far more than everyone else. You don't get to an enlightened state out of thin air. You have to face and make peace with everything you've ever done and go through and transcend all of it yourself in order to see and be the light. Why do you think most unconscious people usually have extremely challenging trips on psychedelics in the beginning then near the end of the trip they are in a peaceful/blessed out state. There is no short cuts to truth, if you never faced truth before it will be forced upon you the moment you accelerate on a higher level and in order to reside at a higher level and continue to grow you will need to transcend those lower energies patterns we usually try to run away and hide from. Hope this helps

That's merely a few hairs on the Ox's tail. You can't imagine how deep the bliss goes.

yah buddy! bliss layer is all the rage!

An epic drama has to have a villain. What's the fun otherwise? Gotta go through hell to truly appreciate harmony and bliss. EVERYONE HAS GOT TO GO THROUGH HELL.

David Spero is so real in this video, and I totally agree with regards to most teachers. When I started walking the path, I spent far too much time trying to force myself to see perfection/problems being a projection of the mind when it didn't match my experience. I've found that merely telling yourself that it's all good isn't very productive, and instead of attempting to negate suffering by some sort of focus on beyondness/bliss/ love, etc. it's better to see it for what it is and just be as honest as possible, which isn't the same as the opposite extreme of denial via spiritual bypassing in which you indulge and self-pity. Pain has been such a great teacher and its lessons in seeing what you fail to see as so direct if we only listen. It's a necessary part of the path.

Exactly! I shared because some of the things he said resonated with me, but I am one who benefited a lot of meditation to be more calm and think better. And much more. I agree a lot with what you say about peace and bliss from the personal POV and from the awareness POV.

Perhaps you are missing the bliss, the magic. Perhaps you have an idea what the bliss and magic "should" be like and are therefore missing what is right under your nose. You would need to let go of that thought story about what bliss and magic "should" be like. When one transcends the self, a whole new world arises. Beyond anything one can imagine.

It's tough guys, it really is. How can I go from having a lust for life to this. I just don't understand. I don't want to be God. I was me to be me, and you to be you. So life is precious but we make the best of it. I want us to have free will. Who created God? It just doesn't seem right. I spent the afternoon just fiddling about with some old guitars of mine. I loved playing my guitar. I love music. Now I just don't see the point. I kept just thinking why delay the inevitable. Just end it now. Where is the bliss in not exploring the world and just doing nothing? Where's the bliss in everything being the same thing? I just don't get it. I really don't.

@abrakamowse It sounds like someone becoming more mature and realizing naunces within meditation. Meditation can be used for relaxation and stress reduction. It is wonderful for that. It can help someone "be in the moment" and help their attention. This may help that at work and in their relationships. This can promote a sense of successful in their life and relief from stress. Super duper. . . Meditation can also be used as a transcendental tool to self-actualize and transcend the personality. Cool jellies! The tension and misunderstanding I see is when someone thinks they want to transcend the person, yet the true desire is for personal development and rewards. There is nothing "wrong" with other of these. It is the confusion that causes trouble. For example, someone might be attracted to the idea of "peace and bliss" they hear about with awakening. Yet they confuse the transcendental "peace and bliss" with their old concepts of personal "peace and bliss" (which is actually just a temporarily relief from stress and suffering). Such a person is likely to become very confused and frustrated.

Pick a specific moment in time when you were suffering from that thought, and Work on that. That’s good, but the Work is meditation. Are you meditating on this? Each question, spend a few minutes really meditating on your answers. But more importantly, you have to realise that you won’t get total freedom from just one worksheet. The ego structure causes your suffering, and that is what The Work is dismantling. Don’t expect the really good results until like 3-4 months into your daily practice. When you finish this worksheet, pick another disturbing situation in your past and get to Work on that one. Then the next. And so on. As you do many worksheets, you will get massive relief from negative emotions, but not in the way you are expecting. If you do this Work long enough, it wakes up inside you. You will notice that your mind is undoing beliefs all by itself! Until the entire belief structure collapses and eternal peace and bliss is reached. Don’t stop till you get there! Good luck my friend.

Because once you harm your body past all hope, you will be freed from the burden of attachments that weigh you down. At the same time, you will see that you can only live this blissfully, hopelessly, as long as your body is intact. At that point, you will understand that you have made a mistake. You could have given up all hope willingly and live in bliss, until the body decays by itself. Keeping thoughts about suicide as your last resort, if you ever become too attached to enjoy the present moment.

If I don't know the rewards of truth, how can I want it? Or anyone else for that matter. You must surely be talking about manifestations of truth that is appealing to the mind like eternal bliss, love, removal of suffering etc. From my experience of people online and real life, majority of us came to these esoteric teachings from a deep state of unhappiness (anxiety, depression, loneliness etc.) and we want to be more happy/peaceful. There is nothing wrong with that and is all and very expected. Naturally as humans we want more pleasure and less pain. So you are partially right, I need a deep desire for truth because of its potential rewards, not for truth's sake. But it's pretty damn impossible to invest decades doing yoga or meditation just for truth's sake. Takes some really stubborn to persist without rewards. How does radical openmindedness and brutal honesty be applied to ourselves? We see ourselves with biases and filters and it's really doubtful we can be totally and utterly honest with ourselves. We can try our best though. Agreed on that. You have talked extensively on this topic of pre-rational and post-rational and it seems very sensible.

your 4th and 5th trip is very similar to an experience I had smoking weed alone one day. First time I have smoked alone, with the intention of having a breakthrough. I experienced it as if my whole life had been lead up to this exact point, where everything I ever believed in disappeared in the matter of "seconds". I disappeared into infinite fractals (I was laying under a tree, and the branches turned into the fractals I became/was.) Funny thing is I put on a meditation by mooji just before my breakthrough, and I was hearing gods voice through him. Every time a personal thought came into this infinite space and there was a little believe, I could see the fractals going back into reality, and then back into fractals everytime I realized the non truth of the thoughts. This was going on for eternity. Thoughts I remember was thoughts like "is this really gonna go for eternity" and then an amazing insight would come and bliss me out. Suddenly I was back in my body and the 18 minute meditation was still going, I looked around and what I was met with was simply awe-inspiring. Out of nothing all of this was created. Everything is literally god playing with himself. I went home and went on youtube, and I was hearing every guru that I listened to before in totally different light. I (god) was talking through all of these people to myself, about how to navigate this "game" I have made. I was amazing myself with the reality that I created as If it was the first time I had ever heard it. A video I remember I saw at this point was this: I was talking to myself through these to guys, and the insights were amazing. A very big insight that I had was that everything does wake up when you wake up. From the standpoint of god, everything is god.

Seeing thru your beliefs is key! Letting go of attachment is difficult. When the letting go of attachment happens, it will happen on it's own and will be effortless and it will make logical sense not to cling onto that part of your self. Over the last week. I lived life alternating between soonHei and awareness. I truly deeply and immensely lived life from myself. I understand what Leo and all the rest mean when they say "it goes deeper" The more and more of ego you let go, the more and more bliss you gain. It is perfectly balanced. Always totaling to 100% so to speak. If you got 60% attachment to ego, you will be at 40% in your self. All these are concepts of course And i also truly deeply saw and felt that I can never speak to anyone but myself. It was such a beautiful realization and so very sad at the same time So immensely freeing yet so immensely tragic. I understood how SoonHei is my absence and in SoonHei's absence, I AM. I am, all the time. But when SoonHei is there, i tend to live and believe as if i am SoonHei But i am always myself. It was also quite emotional... The fact that i can truly never share this with anyone ... Anyone in terms of what we think of "others" as... Like my parents, friends, siblings etc... Walking about and watching and simply being... Watching SoonHei talk.. move.. drive the car... All intelligent design unfolding without the mind interfering. That which arises without the suggestion of the mind is devine unfolding. Surrendering to that natural unfolding will take you deeper within yourself. Shed your ego skin!

It makes no sense to the ego-mind because the ego-mind is constantly trying to survive. The ego-mind as a mechanism does not allow you to feel happy other than as a manipulation or a reward for survival. So you are like a dog stuck in a cycle of chasing dog biscuits without realizing that there is an endless mountain of dog biscuits right over the hill. But you are so hungry for that one biscuit that you never go over the hill to dog heaven Motivation is a manipulation mechanism that the mind uses over you. Notice how easily you're controlled by the promise of a little pleasure in the future. You are so controlled by it you wouldn't even take infinite happiness if it was offered to you. Because you'd say, "But that would mean I have to stop chasing crumbs." Yes, you'd have to stop chasing crumbs. It's like you have been offered a billion dollars but you say, "I'm too busy to take this billion dollars because I'm busy chasing millions of dollars." Well, okay, have it your way. Indeed. That's what an intelligent person would do. The problem is, you can't do it. Because you're too hypnotized and addicted to life. Are you really willing to sacrifice your entire life for God? If so, do it. You are totally underestimating what awakening offers. It doesn't just offer happiness. It offers immortality and God-realization. You cannot even fathom such kinds of joy. It is a joy beyond anything you've experienced in your life. The technical terms for it are Bliss, Ecstasy, and Paradise. Imagine a literal Paradise. That's what you're missing by not fully awakening. So what's the catch? The cost of attaining this Paradise is surrendering your entire life. Which is of course out of the question for you.

Ah, see, this is the problem. You can't really interpret Maharshi's teachings without being a jnani yourself. Otherwise it's just regarding the outer garments of the teaching. Ok, I read it. It's not horrible, but it's not great. A couple of choice quotes: "Whatever turmoil our mind may be in, in the centre of our being there always exists a state of perfect peace and joy, like the calm in the eye of a storm." I already don't like this metaphor. A calm in the eye of the storm suggests that the calm is a small space in the center when rather the calm is everywhere. It is the storm that is small and passing; actually, more than that -- the storm itself is nothing but the calm. "Happiness is thus a state of being – a state in which our mind’s habitual agitation is calmed. The activity of our mind disturbs it from its calm state of just being, and causes it to lose sight of its own innermost happiness. To enjoy happiness, therefore, all our mind need do is to cease all activity, returning calmly to its natural state of inactive being, as it does daily in deep sleep." This is misleading. True happiness is... precisely not a state. It is our constant, unchanged, always-existing nature. It is the case regardless of whatever happens in our mind. Granted that a relative bliss may be more in a calmer mind, and that such a calm mind is indeed a wonderful thing, true happiness is beyond all objects, including a calm mind. True happiness is the removal of ignorance, the ignorance that makes us believe that what is in our mind is what determines our happiness. This quote is dangerous, too, as it implies that if the mind keeps thinking, happiness is inaccessible. This is not so unless thinking if understood in a very specific way. Namely, to the jnani, thinking is not thinking, because the "I" that is identified with the thinker is understood as false. "Therefore to master the art of being happy, we must master the art and science of just being. We must discover what the innermost core of our being is, and we must learn to abide consciously and constantly in that state of pure being, which underlies and supports (but nevertheless remains unaffected by) all the superficial activities of our mind: thinking, feeling and perceiving, remembering and forgetting, and so on." Again, pure being is not a state. It seems like a state to a seeker, but it is constant. This whole thing suggests that it's all about practice, like learning an instrument. It only seems so for a while. In truth it is more like a misconception that is dispelled. It's not a skill, it's not a science, it's not an art, it's not a practice (except temporarily) -- it is about a seeing that dispels an illusion.

@peanutspathtotruth haha yeah kunjal its probably very healthy. its just the acid going in your esophagus isnt ideal, especially if u dont neutralize it right away. But i was reading in the hatha yoga pradapika(basically a best of from like 1400-1800 of yogic practices) and they say the best things to do everyday are the kunjal followed by the jula neti. i used to always get crazy soreness in my upper back and basically kunjal kriya seemed to be the best at getting rid of that fast. also enemas are huge too I do enemas everyday. and yeah ive heard of the coffee stuff, never tryed. but im sure it really gets you pumped. basically the whole point is to make sure ur having that deuce right away and flushing the toxins out right away in the morning. cause when u do yoga later on or work out, ur bascially putting your intestines/liver/lymphatic system back to work pulling out more toxins, but if u dont those toxins will just spread out again. also when u drop that morning deuce, ur opening up ur sacral big time cause basically ur sacral is heavily tied to to you large intestines. thus opening your hips faster and quicker and getting rid of the toxins there, also reducing your attachment to the thought currents, of not being good enough, which is our hugest weakness, as men. also women too, but they have a worse root they say. men are driven by lust(rooted in our root, weaker sacral), women by fear(rooted in sacral, hence they are usually more often likable, than men, but than their root is their weakness) here's a great link for the kriyas/morning cleansing routine. http://www.nithyananda.org/Nithyananda-eNcyclopedia/Pancha Kriya.html anyways best of luck! i hope you reach that eternal bliss!

Hi everybody, Sorry if this has been posted before or is being posted in wrong section. Feel free to move it around. I've been listening to Leo's lectures and various other sources. One topic that often comes up is the one of Absolute Truth, Love, Bliss etc. It is established that to reach that state often requires psychedelics, hardcore yoga, meditation etc. My question is: Why does Leo assume that the Absolute Reality of love is the true one? Why does he assume this material paradigm we live in to be 'maya' or 'not real'? Isn't it more likely that the Absolute reality is not the 'real' but an anomaly state you reach through various methods? Also, how do you know this craving for this 'absolute' state of 'perfection' is not just another devilry of ego? Perfectionist tendency of ego to be eternally happy?