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So I've read a topic from Leo on enlightenment guide and asked a BS question there. I'm so fearfull that all the guys out here will get enlightened and will move on with some cool sages stuff on top of full enlightenment. And I will try to have 20 min of inquiry here and there twice a week for the rest of my life, moving at a snails pace, constantly doubting myself and creating my own hell out of it. This looks like a victims mentality, I believe I know I'm very weak, and very lazy, doubting my every move, thought and idea, having a lot of in-mind baggage/garbage. I just do not have enough energy to do this work successfully! A list of failures in the past and no victories whatsoever. I'm rather desperate with this. How to win over this? What to do to lift this? Lets rewatch Leo vids on victim mentality and try to apply. Update: So it is my limiting belief and emotion that I am weak and very low on energy. I need to retrospect and meditate on this. So I believe currently it is the utmost important thing. Do not forget the 40% rule. I've put this off for too much now, let's dwell into this thing from now on.

And that is great for the millions of people who meditate to connect the body & mind to see more clearly the stark reality of what they face daily, it is a journey many venture on, including myself, and with such the improvement of many individuals physically and mentally, massive perspective shifts can occur, it is the very foundation upon which this site is built and operates! But there is one huge flaw with such a system, it is that the person you think exists, with thoughts, feelings, desires, wants, needs, connections, memories & experiences isn't anywhere to be found, we are, in a sense, lifeless, empty, acting on a will that was never ours, but don't be mistaken, the identity is true for the very act that it has appeared, but the fact that we believe in it is where the confusion and delusion being "spiritual advancement" is not seeing through delusions or false preconceptions, it is not to gain higher coinciousness or improve the person, it is not advancement for there is nobody there to advance, change, mould or grow, spiritual advancement is in a sense an unraveling of truth, to experiencing the emergence of reality for how it is, how it appears, that's all. We claim that consciousness is Whole, God, all being, eternal, everything and anything, infinite, but if that is so, how can that which is whole ever have levels to it, low consciousness, high consciousness, awareness, witnessing awareness, creator, creation, dual, nondual, self, Self, and on and on, all these terms we relate to ourselves and our potential, when if you look and really see the unseen which has always been seen, you find no person, no body, no mind, no identity, you see that and the most ridiculous thing? nothing changes, you as you think you are still exists as you always has, ego is still there, thoughts are still there, absolutely nothing changes because it's always been the same, there's never been anything that needs to change for consciousness is whole! though identification can stop, it may not as well, it doesn't matter, people call these "glimpses" or "full enlightenment" a dropping away of identity. Open your mind, question everything you experience, you may not like this but don't trust in yourself, especially don't trust the reasons you give for experiences, the excuses you have for anything, or the conclusions you make about everything! Question the experiences and the thoughts you hold dear and clutch like a child, question question question, you need to shock yourself into the realisation of what's always been. Though, paradoxically, trust in your experience at the very same time because you've always been you, consciousness, full there and fully aware. ---- Now this is a contradiction, for I don't believe in many of the things I just said, for I'm making assumptions and holding beliefs about how this all works, and I do not speak from a pedestal or claim superior knowledge, yet I cannot communicate with you unless I delve into delusion somewhat, but I reach out to you because I appreciate somebody reaching out to anybody, and someone needs to tell you while you're perfect as you are my friend, you are completely deluded and dense as a brick. But now we've gone wayyyyy off topic here so if you wish to reach out to me in a different format I'll be happy to have a chat, I'm not very certain of many things and you'll probably brush me off (my own projection) but my perspective may or may not interest you, whatever you wish Warmly, Key

@Leo Gura I've seen you talk about "full enlightenment" on this forum. What does that mean to you? How far can you honestly take enlightenment and consciousness work?

Enlightenment could mean anything on this form awakening, savikalpa samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi, full enlightenment. We are not using same language.

@Vercingetorix No, it has to be more than a no-ego experience. It has to be permanent realization of what you are. And that's just the first step on the path. Full enlightenment we cannot even begin to fathom. Might as well forget about it for now. Even the first step you cannot yet fathom how mindblowing it is. Maybe after 40 years of constant work you can start to throw around a term like full enlightenment. This is very serious stuff.

@Leo Gura Hey Leo, when you say real communication, what do you mean? Personally, I believe my normal pragmatic language, communication skills to be quite inadequate. So if I mastered the English language completely, would I really be able to communicate then? lol I'm guessing real communication is silence related?? Like Ramana Maharshi when he said he was able to communicate with animals or sth like that?? Also, Leo, many times in your video you mention full-enlightenment, like when you say you're not "fully-enlightened yet", you imply that it's possible?? and the interview you plan on releasing with the person who apparently is fully enlightened through 5-meo-dmt usage for a year????

For whatever it's worth, I've had a pretty serious enlightenment "experience" and will confirm what @Leo Gurais saying. I suppose for some people their first enlightenment experience could be incredibly deep enough to eventually alter them in ways we would consider beneficial to "personal development". But this seems very rare and not likely for most people. Ralston, Adyashanti and Ken Wilber have all written about this in depth. For me, while I do believe my experience has been beneficial in terms of personal development, it's certainly not over for me. Still many habits remain that I would ideally like to kick. Of course, maybe if I ever achieved full enlightenment I would drop all desires for personal development. But I really can't say. Such a perspective is way too radical for me to grasp at my current level. All I know is that right now I'm just as motivated to do personal development as really ever before. There is no reason that becoming directly conscious of Truth would suddenly mean you knew how to, for instance, run a business. These things are totally independent of each other. I believe a good life comes from mastering both your inner purpose (enlightenment) AND your outer purpose (world of form). This is the Middle Way. The alpha and the omega, everything and nothing, in this world but not of it.

"Reality is what’s happening right now in my senses” Guys and Leo, I can’t break through using this principle to get to full enlightenment. Because every time I use it, it makes me very egocentric, grounding the illusion of myself even harder. I do not feel repulsion toward this principle, in fact, it inflates my Ego, when it is eating the idea that “Reality that I sense right now at this very present moment is the only Reality in general” Using this principle, it does not allow me to get rid of this “me” sensation. Can you please help me? I am using the principle, described by Leo in the video below, rewind to 41st minute. Thank you. https://actualized.org/articles/how-to-become-enlightened

@Tron Most of modern Buddhism is spiritually corrupted Buddhism The Anti Spiritual Scam On Humanity Theravada Buddhism is stated to be the original sect and doctrine of Buddhism. What is obvious is there is a lot of talk about Buddhism and its becoming the new trendy, trend. But no actual mention of what Buddhism is as the core of its system and meaning. Just buzz words. The Buddhist Theocrats are also purposely pushing the trendy buzz words and feel goodism. Without telling anyone what Buddhism actually is. Read on to understand why. Its simple Buddhism states existence is suffering and suffering has an end which sums up its four noble "truths." Which sums up the whole system. Suffering is existence....what is the opposite of existence? Extinction, what does Nirvana mean in Pali: EXTINCTION. Buddhism states there is no soul nor eternal I or self. The person is a collection of only five aggravates or elemental forces of a consciousness that simply reform into each new incarnation according to what karma has ripened a restacking of the same deck. These forces are held together by a karmic glue and desire is what causes karma to continue on and solidify the aggravates together keeping one in the wheel of suffering which is existence. The Buddhist meditation system is basically void mediation and nothing else. Its a form of introspection that allows one to trace the roots of desire and dismantle them within the psyche. So that eventually when they die. The five aggravates will dissipate and they will cease to exist and become totally extinct. This is obtainment of Nirvana which means EXTINCTION. Buddhism states the biggest illusion and desire that causes one to stay in the cycle of existence thus life. Is the belief one has a soul an eternal I that goes on. Enlightenment in Buddhism is totally accepting the ridiculous belief that there is no self and one does not exist. Ones existence as a self is maya. This belief acceptance is believed to be the switch hit that dissolves the karmic bonds totally and allows for them to reach total Extinction, Nirvana upon death. Buddhism is a materialistic, annihilationist death cult. That preaches a strange sentimental, radical egalitarianism which is why the current Liberal West finds it so appealing. The ideology preached in the Buddhist Dhammapada is identical to the Sermon On The Mount of Christianity. Which is an enemy program. Which points to who is behind Buddhism. Who benefits from removing spiritual knowledge and replacing it with a paleo, Communistic system. Now the Buddhist system furthered laid down the following. The science of mantra and astrology was banned. And the practices of Yoga [Kundalini Yoga is Yoga] where also banned from being taught. The original eight fold path which survived in Tantra which is the esoteric knowledge of the Veda. Was replaced by the Jainist eight fold path. Which leads to nowhere spiritual. The Tantra texts uniformly agree Mantra is the number one most important tool for enlightenment which Buddhism by order removes. Its obvious what went on here. They removed the actual spiritual knowledge needed for enlightenment which is defined in the East and West as the ascension of the serpent [Kundalini Yoga] a large part of the Magnum Opus is based on astrology which in Vedic means the science of light. And replaced it with meaningless materialistic nonsense which leaves a person trapped in the cycle of suffering and does not free them from anything. They stay in a spiritual dormant state and hope for extinction of their being from all existence. As Nirvana. With the technical or symbolic language of Buddhism its stolen from the original Vedic tradition and corrupted into the opposite meaning. They changed the wine but kept the bottle. Its well established Siddhartha never existed. He is a stolen and rewrote Sun God. Something at the locus of this reveals itself quick. The Jewish Therapeutae in Alexandria are the known actual creators of Christianity which as system imposed the same ideology and removal of spiritual knowledge by corruption and alteration of the technical language in the manner found in Buddhism but within a Judaic package. It shows the same behaviour and criminal motivation. As is known the Jews have been in the East for thousands of years. Primordial Buddhism Dedicated to Otto Rahn. This article is meant to highlight what can be termed: "Primordial Buddhism." That is Buddhism that existed before the corruptions where made. The corrupted paradigm which is now the standard. I have already discussed this: "Bogus Buddhism." Elsewhere. In the ancient world the Arya's worshipped a Creator God by the title of Buddha. The Aryish Druids religion was based on the worship of a crucified and reborn God man, named: Wod, Wodan, Bud, Budh, Buddha. As DM. Murdock cites in her book: "Suns of God." "They gave [the Sacred Island] two other names, viz, Phus Inis, and Inis=na-Phuodha-which, at once, associate the "worship" with the profession of the worshippers-for, Phus Inis, is Dudh Inis-Ph, or , F, being only the aspirate of, B, and commutable with it-that is, Budh Island; and Inis-na Phuodha is Inis-na-Buodha, that is, THE ISLAND OF BUDHA." So we have ancient Ireland being titled: "The Island of Budha." Also from the same work: "The ancient Irish and Hindus used the name Budh for the planet Mercury. The stem Budh appears in all the Celtic languages as it does in Sanskrit, as meaning "all victorious" "gift of teaching" "accomplished" "enlightened" "exalted" and on." From here we see Buddhaya the Sanskrit title for Mercury. The Indo-European languages all come from Sanskrit. "The Druidic and Vedic priesthoods, language and culture are one at root, separating perhaps three millennia prior to the Christian era."- Ellis The round towers of Ireland: "O' Brien relates the words of an ancient Irish bishop Corma, "the celebrated bishop of Cashel" who in "defining the Round Towers in his Glossary of the Irish Language, under the name of Faill, wrote the following: "Carth cloacha is aire bearor fall desucedr Fo bith ro ceata suighedesat en Eire"- that is, stone-built monuments, within which noble judges [my note Druids] used to enclose vases containing the relics of Fo [i.e. Budh] and of which they had erected hundreds throughout Ireland!" More: "O'Brien cites the Dagoba's of Sir Lanka often lofty buildings in which Buddhist relics have been deposited. The towers are also symbols of fertility their phallic nature obvious to the eye. Concerning these phallic symbols, O'Brien remarks: Such was the origin and design of the most ancient Indian pagodas And that such, also was the use and origin of the Irish pagodas is manifest from the name by which they are critically and accurately designated, via, Budh, which in the Irish language, signifies not only the Sun, as the source of generative vegetation, but also the male organ of procreative generativeness. Clo. Vallancey states that Krisna also means sun in ancient Irish. "O'Brien provides an image of a round tower with a crucified man above the door, between two standing human figures and below them two bizarre animals lying down. Concerning this image, O'Brien relates that Christian authorities naturally want to make of it a Christian crucifix. However, our Irish writer disagrees, first commenting on the strange animals and linking them with the elephant and bull on a Buddhist temple in Sri Lanka." Tertullian, as late as 211 CE, wrote: "The Christians neither adored nor desired crosses, and criticized pagans for doing so and for putting a man on the cross, too. For pagans a cross was a sign of eternity.It was not until the 6th synod of Constantinople that it was decided that the symbol of Christianity, which was confirmed by Pope Adrain I, would be represented from that time on as a man crucified on the cross. In fact, the earliest instances of any artwork that illustrates Jesus on the cross can be traced back only to the eight or ninth century. Thus, the Christians adopted the crucifixion as a symbol from the pagans." Its also no mistake the ancient Europeans would dye their bodies with a sacred blue paint. Called "Wod." More on the Druids: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoSNewsletter/message/239 On the European continent where the same God who is hung on the sacred tree and reborn again is worshipped. We had the major spiritual center of the Irminsul Pillar. Which holds the same meaning of the Tet Pillar of Ptah in Egypt. Or Mount Meru column. Of which the Round Towers are a symbol for as well. This is the meaning of the Buddhist Stupas in the East as well. Budha is depicted as the sacred tree in the East as well as the West. We have these same towers being called; "Fish Towers." As the Fish is the symbol of the perfected life force following up the spine and the rebirth. It's the Yoni symbol in which the reborn God is shown emerging from. We have the same round towers or Benben towers being built by the Egyptians as well. Also noted in Sri Lank Buddha is still called Wod or Woden to this day. As D.M. Murdock notes: "The word "Buddha" is related to the Egyptian term for the sky-god father-figure, "Ptah" and "Puttha," as well as to "Pytha," as in Pythagoras ("Buddha" + "guru"). " Churchward also stated: "Buddha is their representative of Ptah of the Egyptians." As mentioned the same themes are found in Egypt as in Ireland/Europe. And the East. Ptah and Osiris as mentioned before are the same God. Osiris name translates out: "The eye of the throne of God." This Throne is Isis's. Isis is linked to the star Sirius as is Ptah's staff. Hence Osiris is the union of the this power and its full activation. The Throne is the illuminated or perfected consciousness. And Isis rules the Sophia or Shakti aspect. Which what Ptah's staff contains in symbol. The two are the same God. Just as Wod/Buddha in Europe is symbolically depicted as being blue so is Ptah-Osiris as well. As I mentioned here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoSNewsletter/message/418 The religion of Ptah-Osiris and the crucified and reborn Hari Krist[na] or Horus Krist. Are the same as Vishnu and Hari Krisna of India. And that Vishnu originally is a title of Surya. Hari is the symbolic title of our God. And the source of the term Aryan. The term Aryan in the ancient world was also spelled Ari or Hari we also have the Arya or Haraya [People of Hari]. This term is in Egypt as the term of the founding race. The H of Hari denotes the Serpent [Mercury-Budha]]. And the God Himself. Ptah-Osiris staff is the same as Woden's spear. "Another title for Surya is "Budha."-Suns of God Originally Buddha was a major title for the Agni/Surya the Vedic Sun God. And symbolic mythos goes back to this period. Tvashtar [ a title of Surya] is the father of Agni. Surya is titled the world modeller or skillful smith [Ptah]. As I have stated in another article Surya is known to be Ptah-Osiris of the Egyptians and Heru [proper title Hari]. Or the resurrected/perfected or reborn Ptah-Osiris. Agni in India. This is symbolic Osiris and Isis unification generates the reborn or perfected soul. Hari. As noted before Ptah-Osiris is identical to Agni/Surya. As this is the same Primordial Tradition. The Egyptians stated they came from the East and this is seen in their culture. We can see that Agni also represents the perfected Surya. We have an ancient inscription at Buddha Gaya that calls Buddha: "This deity Hari." Hari is one of the most ancient names of our God. This is why there are images of Surya at Buddha Gaya as well. Budha is another title of Surya. Who as stated is Ptah-Osiris [Hari ]in Egypt. This also gets into Helios. Which means the same as Hari. As stated before: "Horus bears the title proper of Hari Krist but in all reality going right back to the Sanskrit it would be Krisna. Krisna was in this region as the title for the sun god among other spelling. So we have Hari Krisna of Egypt. Further images of him in Egypt found in some regions show him to be identical in appearance to Krisna of India. In Egypt he is shown as the blue coloured child, holding his finger to his mouth and a clay pot in the other. Same as Krisna of India. The Greek version of him as Harpocrates from the Egyptian Har-Pa-Khered: "Horus The Child." Shows him sitting with the clay pot [like Krisna's butter pot] feather in his hair and all. Identical to the images of the God in India. This God also rests upon the serpent or lotus flower. Identical to Krisna of India once again The eagle and Falcon are interrelated as well. Just as the Peacock is the Phoenix in Egypt. The eagle plays prominently in the avatar tradition in India. As DM. Murdock points out in the earlier traditions of Krisna. He like Horus[Hari] of Egypt is crucified , in this case upon a tree by being pinned or pierced to it by arrows and later resurrected or ascends. Upon this the tree which is next to the river, regenerates and grows and rains lotus blossoms and gives off fragrances." She further states: "Like Krishna Buddha has been deemed an incarnation of Vishnu, an aspect of the God Sun. Among other symbols depicted in images of Bodhisattvas and Buddha's, as well as Vishnu. According to Pandey, "The girdle on the waist is a necessity when smartness and valour are ascribed to a deity." Which means additionally that Buddha is clearly portrayed as a God. The insight that Buddha, like his alter ego Vishnu and preceding avatar Krishna." This is why in India we have inscriptions to Buddha calling him an incarnation of Vishnu [Surya-Agni] and the savour of the world, the way of immorality. Its no mistake the statues of Buddha in the East are the same as statues of Surya in many areas. As mentioned Krishna/Hari the perfected Vishnu. This is why the tales of Krishna and Buddha are identical from the divine births to the same birthday. And on in their tales. Including Buddha like Krishna in the early texts being crucified on a tree. In the case of both Buddha and Krishna by being pierced by arrows. And then being resurrected later: The scholar Titcomb states: At the death of Buddha the earth trembled, the rocks were split and phantoms and spirits appeared. He descended into hell and preached to the spirits of the damned. When Buddha was buried, the coverings of the body unrolled themselves, the lid of his coffin was opened by supernatural powers and he ascended bodily to the celestial regions.". We have Buddha resurrecting and ascending boldly into heaven. This is the same as the traditional Sol God of the Primordial Tradition. We also have Buddha transfigured as bright as the sun. On the mountain top. As we see later this is important as it connects to Adi Buddha. Which shows us the same God from the original Tradition. Originally the concept of Nirvana is not extinction. But enlightenment and immortality: "Nirvana is identified with "the opening of the pure ways of heaven." Of the "gates of eternal life," and is actually called the sun and "the center of supernatural light." -Suns of God This is why there are 13 full steps to full enlightenment or Nirvana in Buddhism. The 13 steps of the Magnum Opus. Images in the East of Buddha's death show the Mount Meru column falling. This is the same theme in Egypt with the "blessed land." Of which sit the Tet Pillar of Ptah [Meru Column]in the center of. Of which atop the Phoenix [Peacock in the East] sit. After a great destruction the Tet pillar is reborn with the land into the pure state. The stories of Buddha's cremation in this light is also symbolic of the Phoenix of rebirth thought flame. This is why Buddha dies at 84. 8=4=12, with the hidden 13th step within. the 13 steps of the Magnum Opus. The Phoenix's other symbol is the Grail. Of which also features in Buddhism as well. We can also see in ancient India Buddha being depicted as a linga, tree, white horse and the Kalachakra. There are all symbols of the life force energy. The linga the same symbol as the Tet Column or Round Towers, Stupa's, etc. We will come back to the Kala Charka in a bit. Looking into the earliest Pali texts its still possible to see remnants of the original Tradition that where wrote over with enemy corruptions. We find mention of awakening the seven centers of consciousness and opening the eye of wisdom. Along with Buddha having obtained the literal "deathless state" and bearing all the marks of the perfected man, along with all the supernormal powers or Siddhi's. His victory over Mara [Mara is the god of death in older spellings[ under the tree being the symbolic of having gained immorality and illumination. Mara and his forces represent originally the titanic or dross element that has to be purified from the soul. And with this the morning star appears and the tree rains down lotus blossoms etc. The same as the tree Krishna was crucified upon. And we have Budha/Woden crucified in the European branch and originally in the Eastern branch. The references to the 5 wisdoms, the Jana's and such are taken from the purification of the elements of the soul. There are still some meditations upon the "four great elements" and their functions in the early texts. The principal of samsaric aspects being a corruption of the unperfected state. The nine realms of the Deva's an allegory for the Charka's, etc. Samsaric states also originally refers to the dissolution process of alchemy. We also find Buddha's performing miracles and such. His life in the mythos is identical to that of Hari of Egypt. And as mentioned Hari of India in many places. Originally the Aryans lived across Asia all the way to Northern China and the regions of the now Gobi desert. The pyramids found in Northern China are from this period. And the Chinese admit they are not part of their civilization. National Geographic and others have done large stories on the excavation of the silk road and general Far East. In which cities larger then Babylon at its height have been found. Along with perfected preserved bodies of White people dressed like they belong in ancient Ireland and the Scottish highlands. The female hair is braided in a specific fashion that only remains in the folk culture of Denmark. There are also over five thousand ancient Vedic temples in parts of China. Along with the fact China's name comes from a Sanskrit word for Lion. Ch'in is the Chinese spelling of the Sanskrit "Simha." The ancient Chinese records state about the rule of Aryan Emperors with blonde hair, green/blue eyes, etc. And the Mongols record a race of blue eyed, Aryans living in their region many of whom their ruling caste was descended from. Genghis Khan [Great Serpent] was described as having red hair and light eyes. Along with many upper caste Mongols of the period. The Mongoloid races where not in the area of Northern China and other Asian regions, till around several thousand years ago. Where the Aryans had already lived there for thousands of years before. The Tibetans also state they received their original culture of Bon. From a race of Aryans thousands of years ago. The anthropological studies conducted on the Tibetans by the Germans, found the upper class of Tibet where also of Aryan origin, mixed with Mongolian . In the far east they traditionally worshipped a Creator God named Fo/Po or Futi. Also spelled Buddha. And this brings us to BON PO. With BON PO we have the title for Buddha of PO. Bon was the religion across Asia and as we will see Europe as well. The findings from Bon in Nepal and Tibet such that before the Gautama or Ashoka period. BON images show the classical images of Buddha seen in Mahayana sects. As well as ancient BON texts mention their perfected masters have the title of Buddha. We also have images from Europe found of Yogi's in the full lotus position. Which identical spiritual symbolism upon them. BON was repressed and almost wiped out by the Ashoka corruption of Buddhism or bogus Buddhism. Bon temples and sacred sites and texts where destroyed along with many Bon's. This period is still called: "The dark times." By the people in the regions of Nepal who are Bon's. We also have records of Ashoka putting up to eighteen and more thousand people to death as part of the repression of this Imperial Ideology of his. We are seeing with Mahayana. Ashoka Buddhism which is a inversion of the original, grafted over the original Buddhism in these regions openly. In the regions of Nepal we still have the Bon Stupa's painted in the same way. The traditional or Ashoka Buddhist ones are. So we can see this is a copy of the original Buddhist style. In the region coming from the BON tradition. Are Chortens. Which are Stupa's which are based on the classical temple building of the East and the West. The base represents the circle within the square and the Mount Meru axis with 13 steps or representing the 13 steps of enlightenment. Mentioning the hidden 13th within the 12. And 1+3=4. The perfected elements coming from the 5th of ether within. The Vishnu [Surya] yantra is designed upon the 64 square grid of the Mer-cury square. Enclosed within a circle with symbols for the cardinal points. We see Buddha originally being a title for Surya[Vishnu]. The circle and square represent the unification of the male and female aspect of the soul into Godhead. This style is the bases of many ancient statues of the Sol God in the East. The God as the Linga standing upon the square base. Representing what is encoded in the Sol Gods yantra. The same symbolism is found on the Medicine Buddha's yantra as well. The heart of the BON PO system was a system called the: "Great Perfection." And was based on creating: "The Immortal Rainbow Body." The center of this being the Kalachakra Tanta. In India we have Buddha depicted as the God Kalachakra as well. This is the core of the original Buddhist tradition from East to West here. The God Kalachakra rules over this process. The Kalachakra is based upon the unification of the male and female parts of the soul . Even openly describing the meditations for the production of the male and female elixirs . Along with the purification of the elements or great lights of the soul. As part of this upon the Kalachakra mandala we have the image of the Black sun. Of which Adi Buddha the perfected human comes forth from. Within the Kalachakra we have the same themes found in the Eddas. The Western branch. Budha in India was depicted as the Kalachakra Lingam. Which is the sacred phallus of which is seen in the shape of the rune stones. This is also as mentioned before what the tree represents. The illuminated soul. Wodan is also shown in direct imagery with the sacred phallus upon the horse. The symbol of the perfection and rebirth of the soul. The final product being the creation of the Adi Buddha. Adi means "Lord of the Mount." And is identical in meaning to Dionysus" "Lord of the Mount Nysa." The Mount Meru Axis. Which we see Ptah [spelling of Buddha] in Egypt with the Tet pillar and Woden[Buddha] in Europe with the Round towers. And Adi Buddha in the East. In the origin Tradition of BON. We have The Lord of Time [Kalachakra] another title for Primordial Buddha. Our God. Another title for Dionysus was Hu another spelling of Woden. Dionysus also carries the grail. And is the eternally young, crucified and reborn youth. Who's sacred animal is also the Peacock. Ichthys, or the Fish, was one of the names of Dionysus and the divine phallus was also shown in the shape of fish. The phallus is the spinal column with the kundalini full risen. EA [Oannes] is also shown as a Fish cloaked God in the ME and Lord of the Water for the same reason. The life force. Lord of Time or Kalachakra: In Sanskirt SAT means Truth. Truth in the ancient world was another name for illumination and transformation of the soul. When the kundalini power rises it brings a person to SAT by illumination of the consciousness it brings which is what they where depicting by the title of Truth...... This is why the strength of the soul is its ability to reach levels of truth in the Egyptian texts. Levels of empowerment. An as the prefix of Ananta Shesha which is the primordial serpent. Depicted as a serpent in a golden circle clutching its tail. The sign of the Magnum Opus. This golden serpent Is given the title of "Eternity" [Ananta]. And refers to the title of "Lord of Time." As time in this sense relates to the perfection of the soul. Sat also meaning: Shining. And , An: Serpent. Hence Satan translates out to: Shining Serpent. This is why Woden [ Budha] has a golden ring that replicates itself. This is also why Woden has the sacred mead drunk from the horn [grail symbol]. One of these sacred horns found in Europe show it made of gold with alchemical symbolism all over it. Remember Woden also rides a White Horse another symbol of Budha. He rides it thought the different worlds in the eight different directions. This is the circulation of the life force through the soul. As Gardiner points out. Wodan was the name of the Kundalini in North, Western Europe. And his spear represents the spinal or Meru column which the serpentine energy is channeled thought. It's a Caduceus symbol. The An sound on the end of Wod-an denotes the serpent. And the perfected life force. Hence the spelling of Wod the mercury plus An of the serpent. Same with Sat-An. Wodan's symbol of the valknut is the trine symbol of the soul. Wodan is called the unfastener of knots or bindings. This refers to the opening of the three granthis or knots of the soul. This is the one God in three parts. Which is represented by the AUM formula. Wodan being the Kundalini power among the Teutonic branch of Europe. This is always represented as the three in One. V,P and B's are interchangeable. Val, has the V that denotes the mercury or Serpentine life force. The W on Wodan is properly pounced as a soft V. The Valk-yries are also the Shakti aspect of the soul. The nine Daughters of Wodan. All of this relates to the soul and its structure and purification. The warrior must die pierced by a blade[sword mainly] in battle to go to Val-halla, Its an allegory for the chaos stage and the ascent of the kundalini and its piercings aspect. In the ancient world the sword, spear and dagger where also symbols of the serpent power. The Valkyrie takes him over the rainbow bridge [up the spine of the charka system] to Valhalla we are looking at the shaki rising up the spine to the crown chakra. The Veda's hold the same images of the Rainbow and so did the Hellenic schools. The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow comes from such schools. Its an allegory that lived on in folktales. The horn of Wodan's sacred Mead as a grail symbol comes from the sacred Bull: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoSNewsletter/message/448 The Bull was so sacred to the ancient Aryans from Europe to India. The word God comes from the ancient word for Bull. Go, and the Bull and Goat where used interchangeable Hence the German Got. The totems of the God Satan. The G is also a serpentine symbol in sacred lettering. And the O the union of the masculine and feminine. This is all of Satan. In the East we have the Bull of Dharma for this reason. The four legs represent the four elements and the horns the symbol mercury. The Bull was used as the symbol of the Sun [spiritual sun] for this reason. And the ancient texts stated: The Bull is the serpent and the serpent is the Bull. It's a serpentine symbol . Wodan also has the Golden Helm which represents the Halo or Gold in the Work. The Gods in the East are shown wearing an identical helm. Which represents the capstone in the work. The conical stone on the top of the Meru Column the completion of the great work. Also seen in the Wizard hats. Wodan is the All Father as this represents the ether element that the elements and property of the soul manifests from. And the All is when all the charka's are made into one via the Magnum Opus which prefects this principal. Hence Zeus being Zan meaning the All. This is what Narayana represents. Narayana wears the sacred Golden Helm. Wodan's main rune is the OSS rune. Which is the ether element. Or Mercury. For this reason. And Wednesday is named after the day of Wodan. The day of Mercury which is the holy day of Buddhists in the East. Many of the rune stones are phallic shaped for this reason. As the phallus, fish and Meru Axis all meaning the same. In the East We have Buddha also carrying a sacred Grail in the image of bowl and sometimes a mixing bowl made of lapis lazuli which as Philip Gardner states is an ancient Grail symbol. The Lapis lazuli or blue stones are the grail symbol in Sumeria and also depicted in the Dionysus branch as a cluster of grapes. We have tales of Alexander the Great climbing the sacred tree and meeting the Green Man who them gives him a cluster of grapes which lead to immorality, etc. The Lazu-il denotes illu or the illuminated. And we have Ra or the Ra's bow [Rainbow] Ra's bow is Ra's celestial ship he journeys through the 12 stages of the Magnum Opus upon. The Egyptians called the Great Work. Creating the body of Ra. Or Rainbow body. Within this we have the holy: "G-ra-il." The G in the ancient script denotes the serpent. In Egypt we have Ptah, Amun, Ra. Being the original three in one trinity. With the Ra-m, being the symbol of Agni. And EA as scholars note PTAH in Sumeria has a staff with the rams head at the top of it. We have the fact the hero travels over the Rainbow bridge to enter Valhalla and sit with Woden [ Budha]. And thus obtain immorality and perfection. The Blue color is the symbol of the Great Perfection. It symbols the purified soul. Of which the purified Mercury relates to. As we see with Ptah-Osiris, Woden and Votan in the American's. In the East Buddha was depicted as the sacred Tree which is of Wodan in the West. From this we also have the famed Medicine Buddha who is depicted as blue and holding a pot full of a healing substance from the Myrobalm, a tree used in Ayurveda healing arts. In the Primordial Tradition. The Healing God is the symbol of the Magnum Opus we can see this in the West. Especially with Asclepius the serpent God. And with all the tales of the Serpent. The body is considered a medicine bowl [grail] in the East capable of generating the needed elixirs or medicines which heal the body fully. But the medicine has to be taken daily. Meaning a daily spiritual practice, that transforms the soul to the perfected state. It's the same in the West. Old age, sickness, death and such issues where all known as sicknesses . That could only be cured as they stated by the Great Working. To be healed literally meant to be made whole. The popular term for this in ancient Greek was SOZO. Meaning Saved or salvation by being made whole [Holy]. This is why you had orders calling themselves the Spiritual Physicians. And this why Ayurveda texts at the heart where based on achieving the Perfected and immorality state. The Grail legends primal source is Sanat Kumara [ Sanat is an anagram of Satan] who rules the kingdom of Shambhala which depicted in the shape of a city in the shape of the eight pointed star. Identical to the Grail castle in the West. Who's king is shown with the image of the Peacock. And legend is a repeat of the Ptah-Osiris, Hari [Horus]. Symbolic mythos. Kalachakra [Sanat] is the ruler of Shambhala. Just Woden is ruler of Valhalla in the Western branch. It's the same God with the same meaning. The banner of Shambhala is a peacock feathered one. As we see this God rules the Grail. And the title of the perfected adept is Adi Buddha [also Wod, Woden, Budha],etc. Its no mistake the Buddha Amitibha [who is connected to Bon/Kalachakra]in Tibet is depicted as a forever young boy. Surrounded by Peacock imagery. Is Sanat Kumara. In the Eastern texts Siva is stated to represent Mercury [Budha] as well. The letter H denotes and represents Siva in the eastern texts. And the serpent. And how this relates to the Mercury or serpentine light [life] force. Hence why Siva main bija mantra that represents him is HA-UM. Bud-HA. The famous Siva mantra that translates to: I am Siva. Sivoham. Has the Haum properly spelled. Siva is the serpentine life force. And what the O represents. In the Vedic world the Trinity was Agni, Surya, Indra. And within this Surya is the perfected or White stage. Within The Veda we have Siva as a title applied for these Gods. Hence Siva originally is another title for the One in three. Si represents fire [male] and Va water [female] hence the polarity in union. And the symbol of the lingam and Yoni. And the six pointed star of Visnu [Surya] also used for Siva, which represents the union of the polarity of the soul into the perfected state. As stated in the: Supreme God. Article, the Jews simply stole this symbol much later on. As I wrote before Surya is Ptah-Osiris in Egypt. The sacred Bull , Phallus, world column and Serpent, Trident [staff] are symbols of the same God in Egypt as is still of Siva today. Surya is also depicted in the Vedic tradition as being four armed and blue, Lord Narayana. Which Siva is traditionally depicted as well. As I stated before Visnu originally is a title for Surya in the ancient world. Hence his depiction in the same. Because it's the same God. This is why Osiris and Vishnu-Siva have the six pointed star as their symbol. As the scholar and Sivaite, Danielou points out during the period of the Indus Valley civilization. Siva was the holder of the title Lord Brahma. And originally as Lord of the Animals the avatar of the Boar and Matsya or Fish avatar, Lion avatar, etc. Belongs to Siva. As does Krisna, etc. This is because at the core this is simply Surya. Of which Budha is another title. Another title of Siva is Kalachakra. And the Kalachakra Lingam is the sacred Phallus which denotes the mercury life force. Siva's trident is the same as Wodan's spear. In his image in the West. Siva and Budha are the same. This is why as noted: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoSNewsletter/message/426 Mount Kailash the sacred mount of Siva [also to Bon] and Vajra Buddhism. From a UN report shows strong evidence of being man made on some level. And could be a vast human built pyramid. That was the central focus of a larger world wide system of such sites. Its noted to be a center of a region of a hundred smaller pyramids in total. And the Bon's mention it as being the nine-story Swastika Mountain and the seat of all spiritual power. It's the same God hence the same sacred site. Danielou points out in his works that Vajra Buddhism [glossed over Bon]. At the core is actually the worship of Siva and the transformation process. Before being glossed over by the Gotama corruption. Which seeks to basically Christianized the original religion. The great scholar and researcher Otto Rahn proved that the Cathar's where the Western branch of Bon. Both had the same Grail legends of the Mani Jewel. And both bear the same title. The Cathar's called themselves the Bon's. And have the fact Bon means Good. Which in the ancient world is term meaning: "Shining or Shining Ones." Baron Evola also points out the Cathar's connection to Eastern Buddhism. The Aryans in the A-mer-ca's or Amaru in Sanskrit . The mainstream tale of Amerigo Vespucci, turned out to be a fraud upon investigation. Also worshipped Votan [Wotan/Woden/Budha]. And had the same symbols and culture the Cathar's of Europe did. The evidence shows the Aryan civilizations in the America's [even by the Amerindian records] predate the Amerindians by thousands of years: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JoSNewsletter/message/181 Votan is also called the: "Morning Star." The Cathar's are the major source of all Western Grail legends and chivalry . And hence why their tradition has a knight joining with his Lady and thus being giving a golden ring. The symbol of the Grail. It represents the union of the male and female aspects of the soul. And the golden ring the symbol of Eternal life. The same ring Woden rules. Rahn and others mention the Cathar ideal of love as Amour not the "love" being pushed by the Vatican program of Jewish-Christianity. Rahn mentions this term Amour is equal to the concept of the Magnum Opus. Our concept of love and spirituality in the current world comes from the program of Christianity. The enemy pushes sentimentalism as spirituality. This Amour term connects back to MR which in Egypt is means bright or shining. The sacred tower [ seen across the world and related to Buddhaya] was also called MER. And the original name for the Pyramid is MER. Meaning the place of ascension. This connects back into Meru. And Isis as Isis Meri or Meru. The Cathars worshiped Mary. Mary was another spelling of Meri [Isis-Meru]. Christianity stole this later on. The Cathars where Germanics and directly connected to the Pagan, Mero-vingians. This is where much of our Grail lore comes from. Amour=Mero=shining/brightness, and in French still means love. MR or Mer, Mer-cury means: "Eternal." In the sense of perfected. The Cathar title of Amour or MR translates to Buddhaya. The title of Bodhisattva predates the current Mahayana and its altered meaning. It means " the essence of enlightenment or wisdom." Wisdom being Sophia the super conscious state, from the risen serpent. This is why the Bodhisattva is depicted with a flame upon their head or halo. They have been baptized in wisdom or the serpentine life force and reborn from this sacred baptism. Hence the meaning of Gnosis as from Oannes / OANA. Which brings us to Jana's. An representing the serpentine energy. And its perfection of the being. The four J-an-a's are taken from the purification of the four elements of the soul via the serpentine life force. Jana Pandita is another title of God in the east. From Jana we get O-AN-a, O-AN-nes and the word Gnosis. All titles which are of our God Sat-AN. Ichthys, or the Fish, was one of the names of Dionysus and the divine phallus was also shown in the shape of fish. The phallus is the spinal column with the kundalini full risen. EA [Oannes] is also shown as a Fish cloaked God in the ME and Lord of the Water for the same reason. The life force. This is why in the Western Pagan tradition after being baptised the individual was given a lit candle and called the illuminated As Evola states: "It has been noted the Grail.resembles in a specific way the frontal stone (urna)..That especially in Buddhism often represents the place of the third eye.. This is an eye that is endowed with both a transcendent or "cyclical vision (know in Buddhism as Bodhi, or SPIRITUAL ENLIGHENMENT)." This stone that represents the enlightened or Bodhi state is an emerald stone. And is called the Mani Jewel. This emerald stone is another symbol of the grail in Traditions in both east and west. As stated both the Bon's or Cathars of the West and East held this sacred. And it is ruled by Budha. Emerald in the East is the stone that rules the planet Mercury. This brings us full circle to understanding what does Budha mean as a title. The Budha is enlightened upon the Bo tree. Among the ruins of An-arajapura. Its mentioned in the book Ophiolatreia by H.Jennings. Of nine templesgroups of pillars. That consist of an enclosure, in which there are sacred trees called Bo-gaha. So we see the sacred pillar's like the Irminsul or Tet, Meru, column. Along with the sacred trees common to the worship of Woden in Europe. The hill of Tara alone had three hundred oaks planted around it. And the Germanic s had a habit of wrapping a golden serpent image around trees and making them sacred spots. Woden[Buddha] being crucified [fixing the power] upon a tree. Which represents the spinal [meru] column with the branches being the 144,000 nadis. As stated before in the East Budha is depicted as the sacred Tree. Or world Tree. Buddha is pronounced [seen with Fo or Po] and in many cases spelled with an O sound. Which denotes the serpent. Such as SO-phia, Opis, Orpheus. The P, V,B sound are interchangeable. In the texts the O denotes the Mercury and is the symbol of the union of A and U that create the M. The third power. The M is the symbol of the reborn soul. The O which the symbol for the Gold in the work comes from. Is popularly denoted by the Ouroboros. Mer-cury is a horned glyph representing the perfection of this power. The horned serpent or halo is humanized in the Sol God. Hung upon a tree and reborn via the perfection of this life energy. Gardner states in his book: "Secrets of the Serpent." "Dionysius who is equated to the other horned GodsIs the same Dionysius I found elsewhere to hold the chalice or elixir." The title of this sacred cup of Budha/Dionysus was the Agathodaemon or "Good Serpent." And Good translates to Shining. The Cathar's worshipped Lucibel which is another spelling of Hu which is another spelling of Woden/Budha. And the Cathar's called their God Agathodaemon meaning "The Good Serpent." An ancient title of our God. And Woden [Budha] was the title of the Kundalini or serpentine energy . Budha means the: Shining Serpent. Hence Budha is the literal term for the kundalini energy. So the Cathar's or Bons. Worshipped Budha/Woden. And they where the last known Primordial [original] Culture of Race in Europe. As part of this the Cathar's understand the sacredness of racial purity and the godly essence of the Aryan blood and their descent from the Gods. This is why Buddhism in the East has been stated to be over 15,000 years old. Its mentioned the original or Primordial Budhism. Satan is the original and only Budha. This wisdom lived on in the Dharmic texts in the East: "It is imperative to respect the lineage of one's ancestors and avoid the mixing of races through procreation. This alters the divine order and provokes regression of the species. Marriage rites or procreation must be accomplished of the responsibility of the transmission of life, having solely in mind the quality of the product of the child. According to the rules of genetic selection defined by the texts of the Agamas." -Advice to a Mleccha [one born outside of Bharat] by Sadhu Shambhudasa The Agamas are from the Vedic [Aryan] religion. Notes on Buddhism The original God that Gautama is a stolen and corrupted version of is Surya who is Visnu. This is evidenced [of the primordial Buddhism article] and in the fact the famous Buddhist statues are images of Visnu and how he was traditionally shown. And the further fact the Mahayana sects all emerged from the major Vaishnava temple centers in India. This is because this was the traditional religion still at some point in the past. The Mahayana or Tantric Buddhism came up from the Pala Kingdom of northern India. So I don't believe the Theravada sects claims theirs is the original either. As they are nothing but a atheistic, soul denying, humanist cult. In the earliest Pali texts Siddhartha states that Buddhism is purifying the Chita. Chita and Atman used interchangeably as they are the same. Which is the soul. Buddha and Brahman are also interchangeable terms. The fact Siddhartha affirms the existence of the self/soul and its purification as the heart of Buddhism. Defeats the central doctrine of which all Theravada is built upon which is no soul/self. Theravada is a horrible, Christianised corruption of the original Solar Tradition. The technical language in the Pali is from the Upanishads. And one can note such texts are full of instructions on activating and rising the kundalini. And open declarations this is the task's monastics are engaged in. The evidence all shows at the core the system of Buddhism was the Magnum Opus. The tales of Buddha's crucifixion and resurrection from the tomb and bodily ascension to Nirvana state it all. This is the traditional symbol of the soul rising from the Saturn sphere of time, karma or samsara and to the solar sphere of luminous immortality. Depicted as the sun of which Nirvana is depicted as. At some point this was altered to the poison bowl of Kunda. But not by much. The poison is the final dissolution of the gross material aspect, poison is corrosive it burns and breaks down. This is why traditionally snakes venom was used to depict this. Kunda the metal smith is Kundalini or serpentine energies in his destructive aspect the power of time. Kundry in the surviving Western branch of this tradition is the European version of Kali. Who causes the final transmutation of the soul to perfection. This is the black stage. Kunda is also the title for the kunda-lini energy in India and is depicted as a Goddess dwelling a cave. From here Buddha obtains the highest Jhana and enters into Nirvana. Which is a toned down rebirth into the white or final stage. Its life number is 84 and this adds into 12 and himself is the 13th step of the Magnum Opus. Tathagata a common used title of Buddha does not mean "One who has come." It means "Become Brahman." The Upanishads and many other Vedic texts state over and over again one becomes Brahman when the serpent is risen. Buddha's tale under the Bodhi tree which is the mystic tree at the navel of the earth is obvious to this allegory. Bodhi is the same element of that Buddha is relating towards and thus Brahman. So we have the spinal column and the risen serpent. Its very obvious when the morning star appears at this moments as its the age old symbol of kundalini rising. Buddha never stated anything about a middle path. He called it the lighting path. Which is this power again. Nagarjuna who is considered to be the creator of Mahayana stated that everything is nothingness and the Mahayana Buddhist's strive to become empty thus achieving Buddhahood. Its obvious this emptiness is the Akasha or ether. And obtaining emptiness is purifying the soul into the primal element of the subtle ether which is the Magnum Opus. This is mentioned to create the Diamond thunder bolt or rainbow body. Which Tantric Buddhism states is done by Kundalni energy. Laya Yoga is equal to Nirvana in its meaning. LA=earth element the body, YA=ether element. The purification process. Which bring union of the trine being into the ascended form. This is what came up from the Maha Siddha's of the Pala Kingdom. The arrows all point to originally Buddha was the reborn Visnu [Surya] who was called Buddha, Krisna, Agni, Hari,, And Brahma towards the Hindu period and Siva in the South. which was the religion of over 15,000 years. And was Regraphed at some point by taking over the cultural language and putting new meanings behind it. Which corrupted into the mess of today. The point the Theravada's believe the opposite as their core truth of what this Siddhartha character actual stated as the core truth of Buddhism. That's an extreme level of corruption. And had to be deliberate. This Siddhartha is paraded as the reborn God, born from immaculate conception and emerges from his mothers left side, and dies and is reborn, who has incarnated to purify the Veda's of all the corruptions thus the gate way to assign new meanings. Which removes all spiritual knowledge looking at what Theravada amounts to, then replaces it with Communism with spiritual pretense. Sources: The Mystery of The Grail J.Evola The Serpent The Eagle The Lion and The Disk. B.Parker The Shining Ones. P. Gardiner and G.Osborn Guardians of the Holy Grail, Pinkham Mark. Suns of God. D.M Murdock Starwalkers. W.Henry Gnosis, Philip Gardiner Secrets of the Serpent, Philip Gardiner The Doctrine of the Awaking. J.Evola Lucifer's Court, Otto Rahn Guardians Of The Holy Grail, M.Pinkham While The Gods Play. Danielou Source:https://josministries.prophpbb.com/post40723.html#p40723 Most of the chakra opening stuff has worked for me, so I know it's not fake

hey guys, just wondering, is full enlightenment/arhatship/buddhahood w/e u call it the end all be all state? can consciousness be developed beyond that? thoughts on this?

@YoungSeeker I did. This is normal and it's good for your motivation. You had a little glimpse of what Enlightenment could be, so use it as fuel to do the work towards Full Enlightenment.

The real difference is that kids don't yet have an elaborate ego structure, full of dogmas and thousands of concepts. So life is much simpler and freer. No one is saying being a kid was the perfect state and that you should return to being a kid. Being a kid is a phase of development, and you're NEVER going back there. As an adult, life will be different, even if you dismantle the ego and achieve full enlightenment. But there are some lessons you can glean from looking back at childhood.

I'm reading a book in which the Dalai Lama shares his thoughts on a range of topics, I thought this passage might be useful to some- "It's important to make a clear distinction in your mind between your ideals and the standards by which you judge your progress. As a Buddhist, for instance, you set your ideals very high: full Enlightenment is your ultimate expectation. Holding full Enlightenment as your ideal of achievement is not an extreme. But expecting to achieve it quickly, here and now, becomes an extreme. Using that as a standard instead of your ideal causes you to become discouraged and completely lose hope when you don't quickly achieve Enlightenment. So you need a realistic approach. On the other hand, if you say, ‘I'm just going to focus on the here and now; that's the practical thing, and I don't care about the future or the ultimate attainment of Buddha-hood,’ then again, that is another extreme. So we need to find an approach that is somewhere in between. We need to find a balance."

Enlightenment is no more than the realization that everything is driven by one unified field of consciousness. That realization happens by tapping into that primordial field through the practice of silencing the mind. So who can't experience enlightenment? But the big hurdle is staying in that state of unity at all times and under all circumstances. When the silence finally prevails at all times over the noise of mind, that's full enlightenment or bliss consciousness. Of course that is much easier said than done when living day to day in the real world and the reason so many end up going into seclusion.

@jjer94 Thanks for your input. Very wise! In Zen there comes a point called dai - kensho (liberation) where the student realizes for themself that there is indeed no path. This "path" brought them to the realization there is no path, no master, no enlightenment and that they are on their own. However, another great attribute of Zen is that it brings the person through even that marginalising state of Absolute and back into the relative existence (full enlightenment/transmission). That's the beauty of a tradition, because it protects you by teaching you there is a lot more to enlightenment than realising true nature (the "dogma" of true nature) There is also the other practice's I recommend, shadow, psychotherapy, ego development to turquoise stage which are not Buddhist but deal with other aspects of the psyche. States tend to repress and structures tend to include. This is why there is much more to Enlightenment than self-realization. I apologise to you for not putting my entire recommended system into my previous message. There is a distinct difference between messy eclecticism and being serious about ones development. Thanks for your contribution, seems you're learning something by being here.

Sort of The more you develop the more you will understand that those acts are manifestations of your own True Self. It will hurt more, but bother you less. In Zen there is a path to full Enlightenment called "Tozans Five Ranks". It explains what full enlightenment is, which is not Absolute Truth bliss state, but an integration of the Relative and Absolute - which means that this relative world with all it's separation and suffering IS a manifestation of the Absolute, or Divine, God Head (whatever you want to call it). It also means that there is nothing outside of you that can truly harm you. It's all "you". But first we need to taste Absolute Truth

Stay away from the neo-advita gurus. Papaji had a habit of churning out satsang gurus who only had a few experiences and labeled it full enlightenment. None of these guys are enlightened.

@Andre Hi Andre, This is a good question, something I've been researching. In my opinion infants are not really "enlightened". Their state is a condition of unconscious symbiotic fusion - similar to "being" but undifferentiated. According to the traditions (for example, the Vedic Science concept of "changing levels of mind" (Maharishi 1970) each human being progresses through a series of fundamental shifts of consciousness, from pre-verbal (infancy), to discursive-verbal (adulthood), and in rare cases post-symbolic (transpersonal) and then cosmic consciousness (aka "unity consciousness"). Some teachers and philosophers are convinced that a person cannot reach what the Vedic tradition calls "full enlightenment" until they have developed their ego, mastered the object world and then transcended it. Not everybody agrees with this, but I happen to think this reflects the process as accurately as we can make it on an intellectual level. Mal

What is the difference between being "nothingness" and this moment? I realize that the egoic self is illusory, culturally conditioned, etc. but my realization was that my real self is this moment. Is "nothingness" just another way to describe this? For example, in Leo's "Enlightenment Guided Inquiry" he speaks about how the true self must remain constant and that is why "I" am not the senses or my thoughts. I understand that, but something that is constant in experience is the fact that every moment is this moment. However, what exists within the framework of this moment does change constantly (but even though things/thoughts/etc. change in this moment, the fact remains true that it is still this moment). But, is the true self something else? Also, I understand that enlightenment must be experienced, not intellectualized, but isn't the process of self inquiry intellectualizing it? Yes, it has been necessary for me to have the realizations that I have had so far, but is full enlightenment only possible at the suspension of all thought? After all, if the noumena is things as they are then any thought or intellectualization is an abstraction of what Is, right? Which would explain why enlightenment cannot be talked about because any description or interpretation of something is a conceptualization of reality. Am I the silence in which all other things can arise? I know this post may ask too many questions at once, but any guidance would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

There are a ton of approaches to the path of enlightenment and self development. I happen to like the approach that includes "tiers". 1st tier is normal everyday existence. 2nd tier is a different ballpark. 2nd tier is what Maslow calls being cognition stage. There is more room in the self concept for transcendental experiences. This is not full enlightenment, but post-awakening. It is the first developmental stage in history that understands that ALL of the stages of 1st tier hold a crucial piece of the truth of human development and the awakening of consciousness. 2nd tier does not make any of the people who reside at normal everyday consciousness "wrong", it just knows that normal everyday consciousness and morality is not an accurate representation of the whole picture. The reason Maslow called 1st tier deficiency based is because 1st tier worldviews compete with each other. Each stage or culture thinks it's worldview is the only worldview worth having. It's highly moralistic and creates divisions and dichotomies in reality where none actually exist. So the general feeling is one of incompleteness and certain egoic needs are created and must be catered for. In the transcendent nothing is "wrong". There are no dichotomies. 1st tier views are illusions, but paradoxically are much needed because the morality set by the highly developed social stages (orange and green - what our wester model is based on) protects all of us from the lower moral stages - the pre-conventional stages. Morals are needed in reality, but they are not what reality is made of. Morals are man made in order to keep social homeostasis. Reality is made of "suchness" - "One Taste", one reality. So hierarchy is real on the relative side of the street (human perspectives) while Oneness is also reality (Absolute truth). But absolute truth and relative truth are not two, they are one - IF one is enlightened. So all perspectives are true, but partially true. Even absolute truth is partially true, because not everybody lives there. So this is why Integral is the first stage that recognizes the need for a perspective of the absolute that must include other 1st tier perspectives their reality. You are correct, everything is one, but everybody is allowed to have their perspective.

Leo has it in a video http://www.actualized.org/articles/the-grand-model-of-psychological-evolution At the yellow stage (1st stage of Tier 2) you're aware of the previous stages; no fixed beliefs, but rather integrate knowledge and experience; self-realized/ awakened (full enlightenment is not a requirement at this stage); not a conventional thinker; priority on self-actualization/ reduced neuroses and need for external stimulation; no fear of being alone/ emptiness; you adopt Being-cognition. There are more characteristics, these are just the changes I've observed in myself.

First you think you are a self. Then you see that you are no-self. Then you see that no-self really is a cat. Then you see that the cat is actually not a cat but that it really is Yoda. Then you see that you where Yoda all along. Then you become this crazy hermit walking around with a stick trying to teach people about this "force" thing, you don't even wanna be a hermit... People just see you as a religious fundamentalist with Aspbergers so they let you be that way. Full enlightenment.

@charlie2dogs Yes, the Tao te Ching covers all that. @reflectivist Coming back to your question about effort and permanent realization: "Free from desire, you realize the mystery Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations" Desire is a product of living egoistically. Right now you view effort as a kind of burden right? That's why it's quite off putting to be told that constant effort is required. You desire non-effort so you will only see the manifestations of effort. That is, you will be all consumed by the psychosomatic response your body and mind goes through when you are engaged in something that requires effort. You will be constantly preoccupied with the outcomes of your effort as well. Let's say you sit down for a 5 hour strong determination sit. It will be hell for you because your desires will become all consuming when your legs and back start aching, or you get hungry and bored. After full enlightenment, when there is no longer an ego and therefore no longer any desires the sit will just be a flux of impersonal experiences (manifestations) and you will realize the mystery of the invisible immutable substrate (the Tao) in which all these manifestations are arising and passing. So after enlightenment there is effort but there is nobody left to suffer the effort. Realization is permanent but effort can arise and pass. There are in between stages. I'm interested to see Leo's video on the stages of the enlightenment. I like this video. Work, for the sake of work is a fantastic way of grinding down the ego.

Can I ask you a question, I am really curious, how do you support yourself if you meditate 5-8 hours a day? I mean I guess you gotta become pretty rich to go for full enlightenment mode like you did there. Or you work 8 hours, meditate 8 hours and sleep 8 hours? (I guess it's doable but if that's the case u must be a machine :D)

Right, but we are talking about beings that do not look past concepts. The mundane path of Buddhism, is, you are correct the reduction of suffering. This is also the secular path that people in the west practice. But the ultimate goal is liberation. The Buddha called it "the heartwood" of his teachings. Can read the Sutta on this here: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/middle-length-discourses-buddha/selections/middle-length-discourses-29-mahasaropama-sutta You can, and I do enjoy life... but at the same time I know it is ultimately meaningless beyond the meaning I give it, impermanent, and will come to an end, and with that suffering, disease, old age, etc. And ultimately it is unsatisfactory. All of these are part of life and I fully accept them. But that is also why I see material things as meaningless, or "empty". Each of the steps of the Noble Eightfold Path has a "mundane" and "supermundane"(this is the heartwood) goal. The Bodhisattva vow is taken, usually, by Tibetan Buddhists, Theravada Buddhists think this is foolhardy because only another Buddha can tell if you can actually fulfil the vow. What ends up happening, the theory goes, is that some people might become future Buddhas, but some will not, and they will be stuck in existence till they either break the vow, or meet another Buddha that will tell them "Hey, you don't have the muster to fulfill this path, drop it!" The Buddha we know, took 4 mahakalpas(which is the expansion and dissolution of four universes) to realize full enlightenment. Of course all of this is kind of conjecture as we do not actually "know" if any of it is "true". I do not remember my past rebirths, supposedly that comes as you remove more of the fetters, and become an Arhant.