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Why nothingness exists?

On the 3rd day of a meditation retreat, I was doing the surrendering/do nothing/letting go technique. I was struggling to completely let go. Then in all of a sudden i kind of stepped out of language and realized that the present moment is prior to meaning in language. It was like i escaped the matrix. I realized that reality is prior to morals, values and meaning. I still felt like there was an observer tho and i didn't get an egodeath like i have had on LSD. Later that day I red a book called 'God is Nothingness', it talked about non-duality and nothingness. Its description of non-duality seemed to fit with what i realized. It said that there is this thing called which nothingness is beyond non-duality which blew my mind. Now, my question is: I know how to get to back to that place of pure beeing. Is that what i should do to realize nothingness and reach enlightenment?

last dance with mary jane. I disintegrated last night. I didn't expect Mary Jane to have such an impact on me, but she did - probably because I haven't convened with her in over a year. I was out of town the past couple days to see a concert with my brother. When we got back from the concert, I figured why not give the ol' reefer a go since it's here. A few puffs later, and my sense of self unraveled like a ball of yarn. I closed my eyes and entered another dimension where I was beautiful fractals and sacred designs over a blank canvas of nothingness. Totally malleable, yet totally solid Being. Insights downloaded left and right, but I had difficulty encapsulating them into words. Here was my attempt: You don’t have to look for it. You only need to let go of yourself enough that you disintegrate, and what’s left is pure being. Being is dynamic. It is always moving, but also incredibly still. Like a silent abandoned movie theatre. Kind of boring to not react to stuff [in life] because you know it’s a movie. More fun to play the role and be immersed. It was never serious. Death is only the washing away of paint on a board that doesn’t break, ever. Beyond death is an endless safety net. The beauty of total Presence in the Timeless realm was overwhelming. I appreciated every spontaneous fractal and every new idea. I witnessed my eternal Aloneness and was okay with it. I witnessed my half-dead ego in its perfection - all of the little sensations and energy signatures that make up the unit called "JJ." So convincingly real it's hilarious, yet when you see its flimsiness you can't help but laugh at it. Synesthesia was apparent as well. Musical sounds became wavy visions, which blended into textures. I realized they're all the same thing - awareness. Crazy-ass awareness doing its dance of formless form. Then I returned to the third dimension and conked out. I'm excited to integrate and embody these insights through the coming years. This experience goes to show that even marijuana can be used constructively when the intentions are pure.

You, which is nothingness is definition a dual. So yes, I am. I am experiencing dual cause I am not enlightened. I can't grasp non dual, only in the conceptual state. If I am to experience it, I am sure it will be otherwise. I get conscious of the meaning/meaninglessness, then a story is created where I look at that and can't find a way. I, me, my ego, can't rationalize it. Only accept it by don't understanding it, and then let the empty cup be open for filling. There are little resistance with my thoughts when I am conscious, cause I can't do shit about them. But of course you fall asleep at moments during the day and in the vast network of subconscious thoughts, there are of course accumulated a ridiculous amount if resistance I am not aware of. It really feels like a not knowing a shit state, and I keep looking for a purpose, but can't see any. I can only see purpose in awakening.

You got me. After a month of contemplating on math, this your basic-looking one sentence, finally got me. Hail to you champion. EDIT: I'd answer to that with: Let's just don't use some equality operator we took granted and never questioned when we learned it in first place back in school. If you forget about equality operator, then let me open you the doors. Observe the two things. Observe them. Think about them. Think about nothingness. Think about infinitude. MAN!. Those HAVE SIMIPLAR PPROPERTIES! You gotta observe them for yourself for your answers. A hint I'd like to give you is, remember! the equality operator is just an operator that tells that the two things are very VERY closeLY related, in fact we cannot DEFINE the intellectual EQUALITY operator.

Yes, The confusion comes from following the 'we are all unique perception' vs following the 'we are all nothingness'.

oh okay. i think i kinda understand it a lil bit. I had think about it for a little while. No matter how much i think about "I am God" ,literally it doesn't sounds true to me, at all, i can't relate, i am not(yet) God haha jk. But i think i know what it means. In the religion tht i believe in, we simply had clarity. and a peace of mind when it comes to God. No matter how i look at it, and observing my religion and different world view, i still had that clarity.clarity that i am on the right track. i haven't found something that doesn't make sense to me in this religion. the more i look into everything, it only strengthen my clarity. Though i haven't experience becoming the auliyaa', the friend's of God but i do know of some people who are really close to God and His messenger, and we call them saints. whenever something that defies logic happened , we know that those are the people of God. The most important criteria to be God's friend is to purify yourself. These people, they have the best of character,and are very wise( i call it intelligence). they can meet the prophet many times. no more distinction between this dimension and a higher dimension. these people can be in both dimensions at the same time. But they never preach to us that "you are God" . Instead , it's always about "surrendering yourself to God completely" ,and purifying yourself, in every aspect of life including food and your relationship with God and others. But, they never say they are God, in fact they didn't like it if we we're to treat them too specially as a guru, very down to earth.They are human , just like any other prophets, but are given the perception of God, as they are those who are closest to God, hence To think that "i am God" literally, is kinda self centered, as if the world revolves around u. (At least that's what normal people would understand). But, i think i get it. It's up to you how u wanna think about it. be it centered around "God" or centered around "You". Both can be your Absolute Reality depending on how you wanna view the thing u called "GOD"/tht experience.. basically it's the same thing, but worded differently.(or viewed differently?) one you say it's you. the other you say it's the God that u surrendered yourself to. but referring to the very same experience and understanding. or it could be that those saints are tryin to explain in ways that will actually bring us to the real truth. instead of making many people misunderstood the real meaning if they we're to tell you "you are God". n not make people eventually realize it's meaning if they go with that approach. it's just my guessing tho. idk. there's a quote in islam, that everything are the breathe of Allah. and to Him we surrendered Ourselves. I think, about the reality, it will reach to the same thing, to that very same reality, but worded and viewed differently. we can question that our physicality may not actually be physical . But, whatever it is, it exist(that nothingness exist). and it is the creation of God. All coming from the One God that we believe in. If He decided that He wants to let you experience God's perception, then it will happen. But don't be too "self"-centered that you disregard the Higher Being. And say it's "you" after He had make Himself known to You. Which only happens only to those who had really purified themselves, a person who are genuinely sincere, honest and free from bad character,especially the heart. to those who had experience the Absolute, Am i gettin there? or still too far from it? did i get it wrong? a question : if you have reached enlightenment, do you still have to meditate? in my case our meditation is the daily prayers. if I am God, does it mean i prayed to myself then? why would i pray to myself haha. but, i am not God. it's gonna be a long journey~

For me, the two biggest questions I’ve probably always been most fascinated by are: how is there something rather than nothing? Shouldn’t there be absolute nothingness? Where is all this energy and existence coming from? how am I me rather than someone / something else? It seems just as possible that I could have been any other life form, or simply not have existed.

Ahhhh. I did 20+ years of part-time consciousness work - 100% substance-free. So, I had a large foundation before my first psychedelic experience. Regarding direct experience in an area of awakening, my first "ego death" trip of four hours revealed more than 20+ years of meditation, retreats, readings, dharma talks etc. There was a knowing of a couple key concepts I never understood - even after many many years of study and meditation. It's like being rocketed to spiritual awakening. Yet then you return. I think I had a solid spiritual foundation to absorb the experience. I had felt an inner calling to go deeper with psychedelics for several years before I honored it. I would say that a 5-meo peak experience is on the same level of a buddhist master. Yet how that 5-meo experience is interpreted and integrated is dependent upon the developmental spiritual stage of the user. Someone with a shallow / immature spiritual foundation may be shaped by 5-meo very differently than someone with a solid / mature spiritual foundation. I know someone who has spent about forty years expanding her consciousness without substances. She is very highly evolved. I can sense that she is in tune with areas that are foreign to me. Likewise, it is clear to me that she does not have direct experience in a few areas I do. For example, a 5-meo peak took me to the null void. She speaks of nothingness conceptually, yet I can tell she has never ventured there. As well, I can tell she has direct experience I have never ventured. It's not like one is "higher" than the other. They are both highly evolved. Yet, I would say a lifetime of practice provides a spiritual maturity that a teenager doing 5-meo a few times would lack. With that said, anyone rocketed to a buddhist master level on a 5-meo peak will be profoundly affected. How that manifests will vary depending on the user. From one perspective, it is a "short cut". From another perspective, there are no "short cuts". Awakening is instant and a process.

What seems to make it so difficult is it’s not a “cultivated thing” to be attained. As in Time(40years) or any chemical technological “means” can get us to the mysterious of nothingness. All of that is still conditioned movement. That’s what makes it so uncatchabel dudes. That’s what makes it so cool. Expanding consciousness=endless experiences “permanent awareness as the ground”= no experience at all. Then experience comes in only when needed, as in application of the intellect/thought.

There is an insight that sees it all so clearly. When this insight acts what is seen is that the personality/self is its experience. As I have seen the psychedelic experience seems to temporarily collapse a space between subject/object. The problem seems to be that is it imposed chemically. So once it wears off we find ourselves again clinging to memory. Then this whole psychological pursuit seems to intensify. Plus in most cases I noticed that I would have some “emptying experience” but as soon as I came to “i” would project from my own content of thought what that experience was. You see the the root of this problem is in the minds tendency to register, recollect, record, and project. To end that we then can play in the mysterious kingdom of nothingness. For me this didn’t happen through any of the experiences I had, but first staring off with not moving away from what is. This means not moving away from fear/uncertainty. To stop pursuing experience we may find that experience comes to a stop. Then that is the mysterious.

@seeking_brilliance i have only indirectly understood the "can't really be explained or put into words" via metaphors. for example, in any movie or video game, the character that is being played isn't real. there is an actor playing the character... for example, Tom Cruise playing Ethan Hunt... It's like Ethan Hunt wanting to know or see how he does not exist... Ethan Hunt does not have any existence outside of the play/story of Mission Impossible... Ethan Hunt (ego) is wanting to know or find out that he is portrayed by Tom Cruise... do you kinda see why/how that works? The moment Ethan Hunt finds out he's a portrayal... he seizes to exist... you see? because Tom Cruise is the TRUTH. only he exists... he can take on many characters Hunt, Maverick etc... about where and how thoughts work and how they arise from... i am just gonna tell you what i have been told/read ... they arise out of nothingness they simple appear. it all happens in an apparent orderly manner which is sequential... but it's really just that... an apparent order. lastly... why does @seeking_brilliance have different thoughts from @SoonHei i guess you can also ask why is @seeking_brilliance seeing something and @SoonHei seeing something else or hearing, or smelling etc thoughts are exactly identical fundamentally to sights, sounds, taste, smell etc you dont control how or what you see, hear, taste, smell... same thing with thoughts and most of all. if you say, well, it seems like i control it... that's just it. it is an apparent control. you cannot argue that it seems like it, because that's the whole point of the illusion. it works like its real when it isn't you gotta shift your perception just like you do with any visual optical illusion

Hello. This is me writing on my first mushroom experience. Let's start off with some background of why i have started this journey. Me as in my ego, have always been very sceptical and logic based. In other words - believe in things that are based on facts. Never stopped to think about spiritual things, things that cannot be explained. Thought that it all is just a big nonsense. I won't even say anything about yoga, meditation, ect., ect. Untill i broke. Mentally, emotionally and physically. I was so pushed down by the whole society i didn't see the point of going anymore. My ego gave up. That was about a year ago. ......... So now I am practicing meditation for about 6-7months, started noticing really good improvements in my overall being, understanding of the universe and the whole ego thing everyone keeps talking about. Then I figured that breaking the frames should make me even more aware of what's the whole show is about. So I tried some mushrooms. Do not ask me what kind, i honestly don't know. They had a long white stem, without any skirts or anything and a quite small brown head. I took 5 mushrooms. I had all the set up pre-done. A bucket (just in case), headphones ready and a blank A4 sheet and a pencil (I draw). As a child, i was really afraid of darkness, it makes me feel uncomfortable even now. I'm 22. So I closed all the curtains, made the room as dark as possible, I was alone. The purpose of this was to face my demons. Didn't know what to expect, so once i took the mushrooms i started meditating. After some time, can't tell exactly how long, i felt that something is happening. My sensations got sharper, I started seeing things in my head. Normal everyday stuff, how I am sitting at the smoking area with my e-cig at my workplace surrounded by strange people i never saw and so on. That all seemed so real, as if I was actually there. When i wanted to open my eyes, i was scared, i couldn't do it for another ~5mins and the more i was thinking about it, the more scared i got. Spontaneously, with as little thinking as i could i opened my eyes. The room seemed normal for couple of seconds. Then the floor gotten even darker, the red light at the tv(tv was right in front o me at the other side of the room) started jumping around like crazy, the shadows were moving. It was quite fascinating and freeky at the same time. Once my heart rate slowed down, I put my headphones on, turned the light slightly on and for some reason started staring at the chair in the living room. It seemed different, it looked as if its not out of wood anymore, it looked soft. The whole room was a little wavy. So that's what breaking the illusion of frames feels like, i thought. The calm down started after 2-3hrs after taking the shrooms. It didn't take much time before I went to my girlfriend. It's a 2min walk to her. When i got to her house she was showering so i ran to her room, got naked and laid on my back in her bed. I was so horny at that moment. After a minute of laying there i felt it. I felt that cold, empty nothingness. There were no more thoughts in my head, i didn't feel nothing. I felt like i couldn't move and was just staring at the ceiling with zero emotions or thoughts. My ego was so quiet as if it wasn't even there. I got so calm and peaceful. So to summarize, I really enjoyed the trip, had a lot fun and some deep thinking. And most importantly i got some more understanding on the ego itself. Thank you for reading.

The mind of each of us is 100% reflective of our current level of self and what it is attached to and feels. The absolute/SELF itself does not talk or say anything of course. However, the thoughts which appear in the mind reflect the level of awareness for that "person/body" I understand what it is meant by "ego perpetuates itself" and does not allow or give room for that freedom. the SELF is contracted and thinks it's the body/mind/ego and when the question "who Am I?" is asked... to this confused SELF, it thinks it is asking that question. all there is to the question "who Am I?" is the question/words itself. there is no ask-er of the question. it just appears... the difference between an enlightened being is that because they are speaking from that place of watching / nothingness, the thoughts which appear for them are not egoistic as they are in every moment aware that THEY are the nothingness out of which that expression is emerging. it's almost like no dialogue is happening but subtitles appear in the form of mind/talk to others to reflect this state. this is a very subtle and simple point and it sucks to know that so many people will not be able to get across this hurdle and as a result may remain seeking for years on end. p.s. i haven't written it with all the proper non-dual terms as I should... and I can see more and more now why it is said that it cannot be talked about... because the best way to talk about it is this " " :')

@kieranperez I know plenty of experienced folks that set intentions with psychedelics. It was a major theme in the Ayahuasca retreat I did. Setting an intention is thought to provide grounding for a trip to return to. Like a theme. For me, the work in general I've done the weeks prior set an unofficial "intention". For example, if I've been spending a lot of time contemplating nothingness, I may be brought to nothingness during the trip. If I were to set an official intention, I would make it humble and genuine such as a request "to be shown my inner blocks to deeper states of being".

Hi @Mu_, I was showing all my high level conclusions of how to exist (or at least get over my current challenges), he said that I was thinking too rationally and that my best Idea was to experience more and let something pull me. This way I wouldn't need to think so much. He might be right and I am there is noting to lose testing this out. However.... When putting these new experiences: I am unique and constantly changing, and I am nothingness, of which I believe to be true to a greater extent, They somewhat contradict each other and I find myself confused. Am I the character I am led to believe, through all the social constructs and lessons learnt. This personal identity that may well have a unique ability and purpose. Or am I really nothing that is observing a fairy story, that could be any character with no real meaning or purpose. Hi @Nahm Could you point me at something to learn what you mean be nothingness is nonexistence and why I could be considered as essential. Many thanks! You are super stars!

"I" got 5 of these rasa trans last december. They really work. I lost my will to seek, because there is nothing "I" can do. Month by month The Nothingness is getting more and more clear

Have you heard about the concept of oneness? This might be an avenue to explore. Would you say that you are experiencing duality now? You, which is nothingness or whatever word you prefer, and everything else. What chooses which thoughts and feelings to act upon? Are there "resistance" to certain thoughts and feelings?

Nonexistence = we are using this word to point out that there is indeed, no such thing as “doesn’t exist”. So, your two statements are the same, nothingness is not nonexistence, it’s everything, it’s infinite being. The brain auto-attempts to resolve. They are the same. You are not accidental, you are most essential.

hi 1x0, Can you clarify what pursuing experience that pulls you means. And then what you mean by putting the brakes on as a result of those statements. Generally those statements aren't thrown around to stop, but widen the mystery of things. If you mean looking for what interests you and then these statements somehow make you believe that you shouldn't since you are nothing and constantly changing, so whats the point of pursuing. Then ask yourself what do you want to do, and forget about what you read is right? Nothingness can still enjoy pursuits and changes, and its own nothingness as well. Why not celebrate in the unique and changes that happen as well. If its because you read somewhere that things are not this way ultimately, just throw it out, its b.s.

Hello you lovely people! Thought I'd put this out there while it baffles me. I am unique and constantly changing I am nothingness When pursuing experiences in the hope that something pulls me, I find myself contemplating these two statements which tends to put the breaks on. Any guidance regarding settling my discernment would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I've experienced various "flavors" of mystical / nondual experiences. In one flavor, the timeline dissolves and there is only the eternal now. Another flavor is the one you describe in which the self and many distinctions dissolve - and there is a sense of awareness from a point. The regular "me" dissolves, yet there is still some type of "me" present that is aware. Yet, it still feels weird to describe the experiences using terms like "I" and "me" - since this "regular" self wasn't present. Most of my mystical experiences are in this genre. They can be very profound and intense. I've only ventured deeper one time. Into the null void - absolute nothingness - in which all distinctions dissolve. I dont't think I have experienced the other side of the coin - absolute everything.

There is a realm of timelessness where there is no beginning or end, (sequential time), or a series of consecutive momentary happenings. This is not merely an intellectual/conceptualizatual invention of thought, (what thought thinks about /contemplates about), but can be seen direct as phenomenon, or as what can be considered the ending of experience. This “place” or realm comes about when all psychological reaction/responses of thought cease to be activated, as in a form of resistance to the inevitable change of “evolutionary process” (dynamic movement of life or WHAT IS). This seems to be an instinctual/conditioned response to environmental conditions as they arise in there dynamic nature. “The thinker” seems to respond to environmental obstacles, (control), as that is a conditioned response of the organism/environment as a function. But psychologically, self/ego resists the unpredictable and impermanent nature of change and interprets that as being unsafe or not a secure situation/position for “self” to be in. That self then seems to cling to its self, which is its content,(knowledge, experience, memory) or (thought/time). This is the attempt to establish for itself what seems to be secure or permanent. This sense of time/thought is the result of reaction as the self/ego searching for certainty/permanence or security. Seems to do so by using thought/time as a measure to bring about a capacity to anticaipate/predict various environmental challenges. This seems to be a type of defensive measure, as in the function of the mechanism as the intellect. Seems to do this by identifying with its content(thought), which is that which is familiar, as in the response of memory. Memory which is of the “past” is then modified into or onto the “present”/now, and then projects a moment of time as “future”. This seems to establish and perpetuate the illusion of time as having that beginning and end continuity/progression. This movement of psychological/mechanical reaction seems to reinforce/nourish the illusion of there being a continual process of cause and effect (evanescent like effect), as in a series of short lived moments as starting and ending one after another. Awareness to this process can and may dissolve and bring about a cessation to that illusion of time-thought movement and bring about that timeless “realm” that doesn’t change, which means No more beginning and end as that which is referred too as change in this very thread. This is not a cultivated result. Not a skill. It does not come about by any activity of practice/routine/effort. As cultivation of a skill imply conditioned action/reaction and are tacit as this reactionary instinctual mechanism of thought-time(self). That continual refinement of skill is actually what seems to establish that very illusion or time in itself. Cultivation is implicit in time-thought itself and only sustains that time bound propulsion. As one resides in this headless-immeasurable realm there is direct perception that the timeless, or (unlimited), is not separate from time,(the limited), but the timeless contains, if i can use that word, time within it. As directly observed, (as in ‘actually’ observed) in and as this headless/immeasurable realm, that which is timeless is the ground. Time seems to be simply a manifestation or process(limited energy), that arises within that emptiness/nothingness,(infinite energy). As this emptiness extends further and further into the this void, this limited energy as time/thought seems no less intelligent/infinite than the unlimited energy of the unlimited. It can be seen first hand that time/change is simply an aspect of the unlimited.

I have experienced this too Daniel. It may help to realize the assumptions you have made in regards to absolute nothingness. This "belief" is not based off direct experience, so it can be treated as such. An "idea" to explore in your everyday life, but don't let it control you. Why does there need to be a purpose? Possibly there can be meaning in meaninglessness. Investigate your thoughts/emotions without trying to control them. What sort of division is happening and how is it false? Without the "you", there's total freedom to just be, completely limitless, completely whole. "instead of asking what do i want from life, a more powerful question is what does life want from you" --Eckhart Tolle

@Dan94 Hi Daniel, I hope your doing well. First of all the "meaninglessness" that you speak of what does that feel like? Be as honest as you can. Does that meaninglessness have a negative connotation? I am genuinely asking you that. Search for that sense of meaninglessness and honestly enquire about that very sense does it have a negative feel to it? Like life is pointless, a drag, ect. Be as honest as you can, and then write back to me and let me know. "If I'm nothingness & the void then who is feeling these emotions" The answer to this one is easy, you are, you the nothingness/void is feeling these emotions aren't you. "Why do self help" It can dramatically improve the quality of your daily existence, emotions, feelings, attitude ect and consequently improve your behavior and expressions in relation to your environment. Sounds like a good way to spend some time, don't it?