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Update: I've come to realize that there is a huge difference in quality and vividness of dream when I do some form of meditation or breathing before heading to sleep. Relaxing the body and mind and staying focused rather than going to sleep while being stuck in monkey mind as you drift off makes for much more detailed and long lasting dreams. I had a very detailed dream recently and it felt like I was in that "world" for three days. I think this is crucial if I am to gain lucidity - I need to spend more time in the dream world in order to observe the differences between it and the "real", waking world. Also, I've been considering that it might be possible to be self-aware (as consciousness), while the body and mind is in deep sleep (not dreaming). I remember reading someone's post here on the forum about that. In terms of spiritual work it may prove useful to play around with sleeping conditions so that such a state could be achieved - it may be the case that ego drops off when the body/mind falls asleep and non-dual consciousness may be more apparent without the illusory phenomena arising within it being a distraction (i.e. you will be aware of yourself as a void of nothingness, in "deep sleep"). All of this is just speculation so I will see what I can do and report back.

What term for Consciousness, God, Brahman, Being, Nothingness, the Tao, etc., resonates with you and your level of understanding? I tend to like Witnessing Presence or what Adyashanti calls Conscious Spirit. How about you?

What you described is devils advocate. You still don't understand existence itself is meaning. You can't write meaningless in a book without creating meaning. You can't paint a painting about meaningless without creating meaning. To convey meaningless you need meaning. You can't point to meaningless without existence to convey it. There is only existence inside nothingness it's a paradox, it's not a something neither is it nothing.

@Telepresent Oh im very aware this is just for fun, hence the titel "a rant" and my comment: And thanks for steering the conversation back to track. It seems quite common for people to first try to destroy an idea instead of just playing with it, even when asked to (Creative people seems to generally play first) My Idea is a bit similar to your alien idea in a way. Guess there is alot of talk about us living in a matrix like simulation. Thinking about it...if we create AI that can know human experience and God create human that can know Gods experience and teach itself about itself then, what to say There is something that created God? Maybe it goes back like that into infinity? Not sure if you can get "above" nothingness thou if that is what God is... @ivankiss Interesting. But we do tend to divide and group stuff together, human creations for example into: art (for enjoyment) and technology (for survival) which can be subdivided, and some stuff is inbetween. Otherwise we cannot communicate well, as all is nature and nothing needs to be said. Similarly the creation of AI is a subdivision of technology that is completely new...similarly to human mind is a completely new technology of reality. Guess all I am saying is that it is a big shift, something big is happening.

@EvilAngel Maybe we can start saying "Nothingness is totally identified with the false sense of self in that body-mind" instead. Let's see how long it takes before we all get locked up in a padded room.

This is yet another "how to guide". It is an example of how to live with and consciously create the illusion; instead of being trapped in it. This content is based on my direct experience and observations, strictly. All information that is being shared is free to be interpreted and/or used in any chosen way. I write primarily for myself. For the purpose of my own evolution/expansion. Wether you resonate or not with my perspectives and opinions does not necessarily matter to me, at all. Although it is cool to see when others relate. I aim to document my proces of transcending limitations; as well as share my observations/views during this process. Simply for the purpose of sharing, connection, fun, transparency, learning, expansion, fun. More precisely; this thread will be focused on transcending the idea of mortality/death. Becoming a living, breathing, infinite being; while still walking on Earth. Some of my views may seem outrageous. ...for a reason. Slow down. You are eternal already. Breathe deeper, deep breather. No need to rush. You are way too concerned with your next step. And the next one; and the next one; and the next one. Take your time. Be your every move. That is how the experience of true acceleration and speed occures, actually. Thinking about your next step locks you in a loop. Breaking through is what enables you to see it; to stop running in circles. To breathe. To merge with here and now. To recognize your infinitude. The unpredicted, abstract move breaks the pattern of cmd/ctrl. Patterns are not meant to be abstract. They are strickt. Defined. And so is the loop you find yourself in. It is predictable. Repeatitive. It's rather funny how one can get trapped in one of those for decades. Even lifetimes. Well... Not this time. I aim to break the pattern. I do not fear playing with it. Manipulating it. Making it fit better and be more aligned with my true nature. All this may be just a game... but the rules are bendable. All rules are bendable. All patterns fail to face and follow the abstract movement. Passion in action. It is limitless and unbound. Creative and eternal. It does not have a need to identify with anything. It just flows through abstract perfection. Passion is not a pattern. The pattern can mimic or imitate. But it can never trully be alive; spontaneous, joyful and playful in it's expression. The pattern is limited and finate. It is precisely defined. While abstract infinity is not defined at all. Do not call yourself a master; unless you mastered being human as well. Yes. You may have seen The Absolute. Yes. You may have found the answear to all qiestions. But... how heavenly is your environment at this moment, really? Is there no more room for improvment? Is there no more desire for growth? Have you become a superhuman over night, just by gazing at the absolute truth? Just by being nothing? Is the world around you enlightened as well? Do you trully know your infinitude? If you do; you may also know it's incredibly stupid to throw your human form away, as soon as you realize your true nature. - Not until you extract the most out of it. - Grow and expand as much as humanly possible. - Love as deeply as no human ever before you. - Go as far as no human ever dared to go. Fear is to be transformed. Not avoided or denied. You are not trully and entirely awake if the world around you still sleeps. Use as many excuses as you wish. You are the world. Everything changes with you. Make the change obvious for yourself and all. The human concept is adjustable. Flexible. One is able to redesign it. It has enormous potentials. Know you are not human all you want; but you'll probably be stuck with that form for a while. Desolving the dream in it's entirety is no easy task. I've done it once or twice while I was lucid dreaming. Theoretically, it is the same approach with the waking life. But that does not interest me, at all, right now. Why would you say goodbye to your human form so soon? Is it really that uncomfortable? Is it that limiting and contractive? Or are you just afraid of trully expanding; while still in your human form? Waking up entirely from one dream only teleports you to another one. And you may not have the luck to be awake or enlightened there. It may take you decades, even lifetimes to wake up once again. So really, why? Why do you wanna escape this dream so much? What's so wrong with being human? I am awake within the dream. Within myself. But the dream is ever-expansive. Evolving forever. It can always get more enlightened. Every corner of it. The expression is unfolding forever. There is no lack of possibilities. I intend to dream awake for all eternity. Now; that I have finally awaken after an eternity of sleep. I am full of life. I am ready to live fully, in this dream I create. I would not know infinity if it was not for this form and this dream. I would not wake up to myself. This is why the dream exists in the first place. There is nothing wrong with forms and shapes. Nothing wrong with existence. Nothing wrong with individualized perspectives and characters. All eyes are staring at the same thing; Infinity. We all interpret the same one thing in infinite ways. That is existance. That is the snake eating itself for all eternity. That's miracle. Reconstructing your belief system/the core mechanism that is responsible for your actions/choices: There is this thing that is commonly called as "the mind". It has no real location. And it is definitely not in your skull. It is everywhere around your physical body. It is your physical body. It is the street, the trees, the temperature in the air, the velocity of all sound around you, the brightness of the Sun. It is based on patterns. Which may have been obvious to you already. The mind operates through patterns. Nothing happens outside of your mind. You may have heard that you use only 10% of your brain-power... but in reality; you use 100% of your brain-power to make it seem as if you are only using 10%. I believe Bashar stated this once; and it's rather obvious and very accurate. The subconscious mind is where the work is taking place. Your task is to first observe, then analyse patterns/beliefs in your mind. Your mind is naturally very good at this. It is designed for analysis. The patterns are there to be replaced, rearranged, adjusted or deleted. You are not chained to them. And you definitely are not them. Nobody is demanding from you to identify with anything. Be free; undefined. All limitation is created by Y O U. If it wasn't for limitations you would not be able to take on this form; or any, for that matter. You would not be able to have a human experience, nor see through your point of view - your eyes. Limitations = Patterns Fear lets you know if you get too close to the boundary. It let's you know; you are approaching unknown teritory. This is your built-in survival mechanism; nothing wrong with it. It has it's purpose. However; it is on you to be aware of all limitations you incounter. If you know the limitation is created by you, for you, and is probably there to be transcended; then you also know; there is nothing to fear, really. Fear is a guiding mechanism. It signals. You should not be afraid of fear. Once the message is recognized; fear serves it's purpose and is no longer present in your experience. You transcend the limitation. You step into the unknown and shine your light bravely. You grow. You expand. That's the process of evolution, really. Right now, the limitation which you are creating for yourself on a subconscious level is probably that you are human; a mortal, biological organism, a piece of meat walking on some planet called Earth. That is your subconscious core belief. That is the limitation that gives form to you and the world around you. That is the mechanism beneath your actions, experiences. It gives birth to your point of view. Right after this belief comes your name, gender, age and so on. These beliefs - as every other belief - can be changed. They are not set in stone. It comes down to what is relevant for you, I guess. What is your deepest intention within this dream. If it is to simply wake up from it entirely - fine. That's your will. Mine is to explore, expand and express forever. Until I consciously decide to fall asleep again. And that won't be any time soon. Here is how I aim to redesign my operating system - the mind: - I cannot be defined - I am an illusion. A paradox. A dream. - I am both nothing and everything - I am having a temporary experience of being a "human" by choice. I have a point of view - I have 5 senses and a sixth one, which is aware of them all - I have free will - Everything I experience is both 100% illusory and 100% real. I have the freedom to choose perspectives that fit - The dream is not physical; only feels that way. The sensation of a physical world is a part of the belief as well - I am able to switch between both subjective and objective perspectives. - I subconsciously create limitations which are based on patterns/beliefs/thoughts. - I have the freedom to replace/rearrange any of these beliefs at any given moment - The overall structure of my belief system directly influences/creates my direct experience of the present moment - I have the freedom to choose the thoughts that are aligned and/or even stop thinking entirely - TIme is an idea; an element. It is a belief. I have the freedom to explore how bendable it is; with respect. There is only the infinite continuum; now. - Same goes for relativity; respected, bendable - Same goes for gravity - Other humans are from the absolute point of view me and illusory. However they are unique in their expression and have an important role as well as their own unique story and point of view; which is relative - The same stands for me, from their point of view - Interaction between two or more individuals creates a third/common reality; in which all individuals share an experience which is both common and unique to all simultaniously - Honesty and transparency are key for all successful comunication. Makes it effortless - Memories exist within the conceptual archive. They are free for access. The quality of the experience, while "remembering" a memory can be increased and sharpened. It is yet another aspect to be explored further. Memories change as well. They are not set in stone. - The past and the future are both conceptual and real - The body is made out of the dream substance. Consciousness. As everything else is. It is not biological and does not have to decompose and die - The mind is everywhere; the mind is everything, the mind is flexible and powerful - The abstract is that which sees the patterns. Nothingness/pure awareness also does - The heart is the home - The breath comes prior to all appearance - Passion is timeless and breaks all patterns - So does excitement and fun - The body needs care; the body needs attention and love - I eat as often or rarely; as much or as little as my intuition dictates. - I avoid all beliefs and concepts that are glued onto the food I eat. I trust my intuition. I seek food prepared with love. I am conscious of the fact that I am eating myself - Same goes for sleeping; no pattern, no rules. I sleep as much or as little as the body requires and when it requires. Dream states are to be explored more when relevant - Financial freedom/money is necessery for the purpose of the overall expansion while in this human form. It is also key for realizing grand visions and making big changes. It makes things run smoothly. - Wealth does not equal evil. Nor does the desire for it. It is eveyone's birthright. Money is a tool, not a goal. - Success does not equal evil. Nor does the satisfaction gained from it - There is no such thing as "lack" - There are no destinations. - Rather; temporary stations. There is constant movement, rearrangement and eternal expansion. - Limitations are there to be transcended, gradualy. - I will live in this human form for as long as I choose to do so - I know the way to eternal nothingness; I know how to self-destruct; peacefully in stillness - I can choose to deconstruct the dream at any time and wake up/go to sleep for another eternity - I am here to both explore and express my infinitude - I consciously choose to represent: passion, creativity, expansion, expression, uniqueness, diversity, pride, humbleness, intelligence, love, joy, fun, bliss, divinity, wisdom, willpower, abundance, absolute freedom, unity, infinity Naturally and genuinely so. - I am transparent and open about my beliefs. I am not ashamed of my nature - I am - that I am. Here and now for all eternity Of course the branch goes on but essentially; this is it. This is the web of patterns; the core system belief, based on which I aim to operate and experience myself, here in this realm. There is much room for improvement and expansion. Much to overcome and transcend. And that's exactly what makes everything so exciting! That's exactly why this dream is worth dreaming and living. I have no need to escape. Limitations are key and they are not outside of your creation. Rather; a part of it. I guess one could say; you're playing hide and seek with yourself. And it's the best game ever. There will be a second part to this documentation of mine. Maybe even more. For now all seems to be clear. Working it's magic; coresponding. Upgrades occur extremely fast. It's tremendously awesome and fun! There is a difference between waking up to the dream and waking up from it. Hope some of you find some useful info/hints/suggestions in here. It would be no fun to be eternal all by myself Please feel free to ask me anything about my belief system and/or views and opinions on reality and the experience of it. I am always eager to interact as well as I am open for exchanging information and opinions. Bless you, Much love.

@EvilAngel yes indeed, but conscious experience of being pure nothingness will answer your question!

pure nothingness, pure awareness or pure being is what you are, the rest is just an idea..

@Jack River exactly right. Closing your eyes feels like a less authentic and fluid way to become stilled. I actually find staring into nothingness with eyes open distracts me less than with eyes closed.

3a.so where am i on the path? i'm pretty lost, i understand i haven't fully surrendered to the emptiness/ nothingness. 3b. have i atleast caught glimpsed the whole ox or glimpsed a full enlightenment is what i would like to ask, but my opinion is there's no telling from another individuals prespective what i have experienced in my direct experience, you can only guide to what sounds right and what doesn't, because then theres no next steps but to embody it consciously to a mastery level, if i had to put it into an anology, i'm trying to create an imaginary ledge to stand on, on the mountain of nothing, because i'm lost in absolutely nothing. even the word enlightenment is not real, because it's pointing to this absolute nothingness which is not what my conceptual ideas of enlightenment were. but its very relieving and peaceful to know that its all an illusion, (well i say illusion, but its not even that, it's just nothing) 6. thank you 7. thank you

@Cortex yes, you are. You are nothingness (no-self). Then, you transform into everythingness. From there you transform back into your ego. While this is taking place, you are at peace--no suffering at all. You're completely detached from what is occurring. You're complete and free (even while making such a transformation). When you go back to your physical ego and this physical world, you'll think that this experience is absolutely amazing! Oh wow! It's so massive being that infinite black hole and collapsing into myself! Because you felt a love (bliss) when you became embodied again--which indicate that you're in the to love realm--earth. However, even though it's amazing to the ego, it's really nothing. Later, if you look carefully, life itself (you) operates on the "principles" of an awakening. Yes, sometimes life may seem hard. You have to struggle to work. Some ppl really are in a "horrible" situation. But, "horrible" is an illusion and it's temporary. This is just a scarcity mindset. There is no distance between you and success. Your awakening points out that distance is an illusuion. Everything is temporary. There are always ways to learn to get out of it and go with the flow of life. Transformations in life are flows. Flow into love. You did that in your awakening. Learn to love yourself first and eventually others. Teach them how to live and love. When you mastered this, you become "enlightened." Beautiful life lessons from the deepest awakening that can be applied to living life to the fullest: Easier said than done. Sometimes we have to unlearn many things.

I first tried 5-meo-dmt a year ago and had a classic "white out" experience. At the time, before I knew much about the substance, I thought this was just a normal occurrence, my conception being that if I was having a true experience of no-self, then there would be no self to remember the experience. I later became aware that this is not indeed the case, that many folks do in fact have fully non-dual, unitive experiences with God consciousness (or however you choose to language it) and remember quite well despite the individual self being absent. So, this time around, a month ago: Set + Setting: a ceremonial, group ritual with an experienced facilitator in a comfortable "temple" environment Dosage: started with 13 mg synthetic, vaporized. I held in as long as possible, laid back, exhaled, and as soon as everything in my visual field started to fractalize... BLACK OUT I came to, what felt like just a few moments later (not sure how long it actually was), feeling like things were a bit squiggly but had the sensation that I had missed the main event. I told the facilitator, who knew about my previous white out experience, "The same thing happened. Except this time it was black not white. I just wasn't there." He replied, "Right.... you weren't there because there is no you to be there." A little exasperated, I struggled to communicate something to the effect of, "No no, this wasn't a unitive experience of no-self, I just literally wasn't conscious." I was encouraged by him and the group to take more. So I did another 10 mg. Same exact thing happened. So he dosed me again, this time up to 12. (The idea being -- if you're still cogent and so little time has passed, you haven't broken through. Do more. Go deeper. But the medicine has accumulative effects apparently so that's why he wasn't jumping me to a 20mg dose, say). SAME DAMN THING HAPPENED. Black out. Nothing. At this point, I'm feeling quite frustrated, as well as deeply saddened that this experience of merging with allness infinity -- which I had seen several of the folks in our group go through by the time it was my turn -- just didn't seem available to me. I started crying, saying, "I'm just not there, I'm just not there," feeling again this sensation that something had happened but that I just wasn't there to witness it. Someone in the group then coyly remarked, "But that's the cosmic joke!" That, funny enough, triggered a dramatic shift in consciousness for me. Suddenly I was swimming in a dark, watery void of nothingness. There was still a very vague sense of a "me" experiencing "this," and every time this thin layer of "me" tried to reach for some stability, point of reference, or grounding, it just collapsed into the endless churning sea of arising and falling. I have a vague memory of laughing, feeling free from all the anxiety and pain that lives within the construct of my self, and I think I started to physically "swim" on the bed I was in, relishing the silky undulations of nothingness. As the stuff started to wear off, my typical sense of existential grief started to return. I "looked" at it (inwardly, not visually) and it appeared to me (experientially, not visually) as multi-dimensional and endlessly deep. Infinite. The grief is infinite. I said out loud, "there's just so much pain. There's infinite pain." The facilitator responded. "Yes, there is infinite pain. And there is therefore is infinite compassion." #buddhismpsychedlia And again, there was (and still continues to be) a sadness that I didn't experience non-dual consciousness. I'm wondering if anyone has any insights as to what's going on here. Why the black outs? Why no access to a full unitive/non-dual state? I'm sure not every brain's neurology responds to any given substance the same way, so is this just a sign that this particular molecule works within me in a more atypical way? Maybe it's just "not the right medicine" for me? Or perhaps I'm just super sensitive, and in order for my awareness to stay present and not give way under the weight of such intensity, I need a smaller dose? I'm curious about trying, say, 8 mg, and seeing what happens. Maybe I wouldn't black/white out. Or perhaps a different intake method could be useful -- plugging, for instance -- would that effect how the stuff works on/in me? The insight into emptiness has certainly left a mark on my perception and meditation practice, for which I am grateful. But I can't help but still feel that nagging urge to continue chasing the dragon, as it felt so incomplete... Any insights would be gratefully appreciated !

@CreamCat @Sahil Pandit Just a thought for ya’s, also illusory, but, thought is dualistic seeing one side or the other, which always reveals you are the one, aware of the two-ness. Also, odd reminder perhaps but, pupils are nothingness, you. Notice the eyes you see are twos, but as you see, it is one, and all are emptiness.

Yes, it is one and the same. During an awakening, you'll actually see yourself as the entire universe (aka, no-self, nothingness, infinity, whatever you call it) going back into your "small, little" ego. If you include such a description in your LP, be tactful in how you say it. That's all I'm saying.

Pursuing this will only set you up to fall. You do not need a relationship. It is impossible to form a relationship that is not based on an illusion. If you want to live within an illusion, press ahead. Otherwise forget it, and surrender to the infinite beauty and bliss of the nothingness of now.

@cetus56 I never said I live off bread and water. I said it can be done. There is no need to desire foods the egoic mind would consider to be more 'pleasant' than others. I think you have a lot of growing to do, Cetus. I don't want to hijack this thread. The Truth remains, you must submit to the bliss within the nothingness of Being. Anything else is an illusion.

You are not submitting to the bliss of nothingness. While you still have thoughts, you are not Being.

You can't be proactive within an illusion. The universe will deal with those who chose to be unconscious, as it has so many times before. And any desire is not your true Self. No matter what it is. Your only 'calling', if you will, is to spread the message of awakening. Which is why I am here. Submit to the nothingness. Do it now. Just Be.

There's no such thing as depression. It is a concept in your egoic sense of self. Submit to the nothingness. What is wrong with just Being? No wants, no desires, no feelings. Just Be. You are wanting something that is an illusion. Stop the wanting.

While you do not submit to nothingness, you are chasing an illusion. Socialising is an illusion that leads to suffering. Just Be.

Is it illusory bliss and amazement of nothingness?

Enjoy. A Loaf holds many grains of corn And many myriad drops the Sea: So is God's Oneness Multitude And that great Multitude are we. The All proceedeth from the One, And into One must All regress: If otherwise, the All remains Asunder-riven manyness. God is an utter Nothingness, Beyond the touch of Time and Place: The more thou graspest after Him, The more he fleeth thy embrace.

@Key Elements I see what you're pointing towards and I am aware of those possibilities. My "plans" seem to be rather simple. I feel like there is no much room for those things to develop. I aim to continue following my passion. Expressing the self, thoughts, emotions, perspectives, nature, the universe, love, nothingness. Music is my thing for doing just that. My relationship with it is very pure and honest. I would not let the ego ruin that purity. But I recognize the possibility, yes. I can see how things could head in that direction. One can influence a great amount of individuals nowdays. It's really rather easy. We are all connected online. This is the era of broadcast; or so it seems. Many gain a great amount of attention, but the followers seem to be still way too lost and asleep. Thus they eat everything a leader serves them. I do not want to start a cult. Nor do I want to have a title of a leader, really. I want to express uniqueness through my messeges and teachings. May they be in form of art or anything else. My intention is to touch those on the healing path. Remind them of their own spark. Maybe leave a few hints on how to lighten up entirely. No real leading on my list. Only spreading light, wisdom and general good mood. I am also incredibly attracted to designing, building, moving, rearanging things. Arhitecture is deffinitely going to be a form of my expression. Maybe I build a school as well, it would be cool. Crossed my mind sever times already. How would your most ideal education system look like? Do you guys have a clear vision? How would the teachers be like? Classes? I also feel like starting to document my journey on youtube. In some cool creative way. Maybe instagram as well. I never really had an online presence. I just wanted to make music and share it with whomever feels like listening. If they exstract something and it helps them see things clearer; the art has fulfilled it's purpose. I like to think of myself as an instrument. With an instrument in my hands haha I only let through what wants to go through I would not say I am returning to the ego tho. There is an "I", yes. But it is transparent. It does not question. Does not suffer. Only lives. It is harmless. Unnoticable. I feel like I am returning to life. Existance. And it is what is right for me to do at this percise time. I see only one path. Whatever I achieve, gain or lose throughout this journey, will not change the fact: I am as fulfilled and whole as I could ever get; right now, right here. This is my kingdom. I am All There Is. And that's exactly why there is no need to keep remembering that, or repeating it. I can just be and do what I love. No need to prove anything. Balance and steadiness is crutial. I am practising a lot of grounding lately. It is beutiful. It is magnificant. It is dreamy. It is miraculous. But yes; as you said; to silence any noise is just that; noise. This is peace. Yes. And I am very much alive; still breathing.

@ivankiss @Aakash what are the both of you going to do to trigger some peace in this world? I know Aakash, you want to build schools in the end. I'm also in the educational field. I'm a bilingual teacher. So, I have done some work already online but have a long way to go. It's part of my life purpose. If you ever get the deepest awakening in your life, I have to caution you to be careful. After becoming the nothingness (no-self) and transforming back into your ego, initially, you will think that it's absolutely beautiful!!! You will feel like you conquered the world!!! You know, grandiose. But, that's the danger of having such wisdom. It can be misinterpreted by the ego. Notice that when you are the no-self, all you will "feel" is peace--no suffering at all. Even when you are making a major (massive) transformation back into your ego, Truth (nothingness) will only view it as a transformation, and nothing else, nothing more. It thinks nothing special of it. It's detached. If you decide to incorporate this wisdom into your life purpose, be careful not to make it seem like it's superior / grandiose. If so, this is probably how cults get started because such wisdom is misinterpreted and misunderstood by the ego.

Well, I'll tell you something. Even the nothingness transforms itself into somethingness. That's why we're here--teaching ourselves a lesson. I don't know why our world happened, and we're all in our egos. However, I do know that nothingness means peace. It doesn't suffer at all. So, while we are in our egos, create something that will trigger some peace in this world in your own way, and see what happens. That is the way to go. It looks like the nothingness travelled back in time, trying to fix itself, and trying to make a better somethingness to live in.