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@abrakamowse It sounds like someone becoming more mature and realizing naunces within meditation. Meditation can be used for relaxation and stress reduction. It is wonderful for that. It can help someone "be in the moment" and help their attention. This may help that at work and in their relationships. This can promote a sense of successful in their life and relief from stress. Super duper. . . Meditation can also be used as a transcendental tool to self-actualize and transcend the personality. Cool jellies! The tension and misunderstanding I see is when someone thinks they want to transcend the person, yet the true desire is for personal development and rewards. There is nothing "wrong" with other of these. It is the confusion that causes trouble. For example, someone might be attracted to the idea of "peace and bliss" they hear about with awakening. Yet they confuse the transcendental "peace and bliss" with their old concepts of personal "peace and bliss" (which is actually just a temporarily relief from stress and suffering). Such a person is likely to become very confused and frustrated.

Pick a specific moment in time when you were suffering from that thought, and Work on that. That’s good, but the Work is meditation. Are you meditating on this? Each question, spend a few minutes really meditating on your answers. But more importantly, you have to realise that you won’t get total freedom from just one worksheet. The ego structure causes your suffering, and that is what The Work is dismantling. Don’t expect the really good results until like 3-4 months into your daily practice. When you finish this worksheet, pick another disturbing situation in your past and get to Work on that one. Then the next. And so on. As you do many worksheets, you will get massive relief from negative emotions, but not in the way you are expecting. If you do this Work long enough, it wakes up inside you. You will notice that your mind is undoing beliefs all by itself! Until the entire belief structure collapses and eternal peace and bliss is reached. Don’t stop till you get there! Good luck my friend.

Because once you harm your body past all hope, you will be freed from the burden of attachments that weigh you down. At the same time, you will see that you can only live this blissfully, hopelessly, as long as your body is intact. At that point, you will understand that you have made a mistake. You could have given up all hope willingly and live in bliss, until the body decays by itself. Keeping thoughts about suicide as your last resort, if you ever become too attached to enjoy the present moment.

If I don't know the rewards of truth, how can I want it? Or anyone else for that matter. You must surely be talking about manifestations of truth that is appealing to the mind like eternal bliss, love, removal of suffering etc. From my experience of people online and real life, majority of us came to these esoteric teachings from a deep state of unhappiness (anxiety, depression, loneliness etc.) and we want to be more happy/peaceful. There is nothing wrong with that and is all and very expected. Naturally as humans we want more pleasure and less pain. So you are partially right, I need a deep desire for truth because of its potential rewards, not for truth's sake. But it's pretty damn impossible to invest decades doing yoga or meditation just for truth's sake. Takes some really stubborn to persist without rewards. How does radical openmindedness and brutal honesty be applied to ourselves? We see ourselves with biases and filters and it's really doubtful we can be totally and utterly honest with ourselves. We can try our best though. Agreed on that. You have talked extensively on this topic of pre-rational and post-rational and it seems very sensible.

your 4th and 5th trip is very similar to an experience I had smoking weed alone one day. First time I have smoked alone, with the intention of having a breakthrough. I experienced it as if my whole life had been lead up to this exact point, where everything I ever believed in disappeared in the matter of "seconds". I disappeared into infinite fractals (I was laying under a tree, and the branches turned into the fractals I became/was.) Funny thing is I put on a meditation by mooji just before my breakthrough, and I was hearing gods voice through him. Every time a personal thought came into this infinite space and there was a little believe, I could see the fractals going back into reality, and then back into fractals everytime I realized the non truth of the thoughts. This was going on for eternity. Thoughts I remember was thoughts like "is this really gonna go for eternity" and then an amazing insight would come and bliss me out. Suddenly I was back in my body and the 18 minute meditation was still going, I looked around and what I was met with was simply awe-inspiring. Out of nothing all of this was created. Everything is literally god playing with himself. I went home and went on youtube, and I was hearing every guru that I listened to before in totally different light. I (god) was talking through all of these people to myself, about how to navigate this "game" I have made. I was amazing myself with the reality that I created as If it was the first time I had ever heard it. A video I remember I saw at this point was this: I was talking to myself through these to guys, and the insights were amazing. A very big insight that I had was that everything does wake up when you wake up. From the standpoint of god, everything is god.

Seeing thru your beliefs is key! Letting go of attachment is difficult. When the letting go of attachment happens, it will happen on it's own and will be effortless and it will make logical sense not to cling onto that part of your self. Over the last week. I lived life alternating between soonHei and awareness. I truly deeply and immensely lived life from myself. I understand what Leo and all the rest mean when they say "it goes deeper" The more and more of ego you let go, the more and more bliss you gain. It is perfectly balanced. Always totaling to 100% so to speak. If you got 60% attachment to ego, you will be at 40% in your self. All these are concepts of course And i also truly deeply saw and felt that I can never speak to anyone but myself. It was such a beautiful realization and so very sad at the same time So immensely freeing yet so immensely tragic. I understood how SoonHei is my absence and in SoonHei's absence, I AM. I am, all the time. But when SoonHei is there, i tend to live and believe as if i am SoonHei But i am always myself. It was also quite emotional... The fact that i can truly never share this with anyone ... Anyone in terms of what we think of "others" as... Like my parents, friends, siblings etc... Walking about and watching and simply being... Watching SoonHei talk.. move.. drive the car... All intelligent design unfolding without the mind interfering. That which arises without the suggestion of the mind is devine unfolding. Surrendering to that natural unfolding will take you deeper within yourself. Shed your ego skin!

It makes no sense to the ego-mind because the ego-mind is constantly trying to survive. The ego-mind as a mechanism does not allow you to feel happy other than as a manipulation or a reward for survival. So you are like a dog stuck in a cycle of chasing dog biscuits without realizing that there is an endless mountain of dog biscuits right over the hill. But you are so hungry for that one biscuit that you never go over the hill to dog heaven Motivation is a manipulation mechanism that the mind uses over you. Notice how easily you're controlled by the promise of a little pleasure in the future. You are so controlled by it you wouldn't even take infinite happiness if it was offered to you. Because you'd say, "But that would mean I have to stop chasing crumbs." Yes, you'd have to stop chasing crumbs. It's like you have been offered a billion dollars but you say, "I'm too busy to take this billion dollars because I'm busy chasing millions of dollars." Well, okay, have it your way. Indeed. That's what an intelligent person would do. The problem is, you can't do it. Because you're too hypnotized and addicted to life. Are you really willing to sacrifice your entire life for God? If so, do it. You are totally underestimating what awakening offers. It doesn't just offer happiness. It offers immortality and God-realization. You cannot even fathom such kinds of joy. It is a joy beyond anything you've experienced in your life. The technical terms for it are Bliss, Ecstasy, and Paradise. Imagine a literal Paradise. That's what you're missing by not fully awakening. So what's the catch? The cost of attaining this Paradise is surrendering your entire life. Which is of course out of the question for you.

Ah, see, this is the problem. You can't really interpret Maharshi's teachings without being a jnani yourself. Otherwise it's just regarding the outer garments of the teaching. Ok, I read it. It's not horrible, but it's not great. A couple of choice quotes: "Whatever turmoil our mind may be in, in the centre of our being there always exists a state of perfect peace and joy, like the calm in the eye of a storm." I already don't like this metaphor. A calm in the eye of the storm suggests that the calm is a small space in the center when rather the calm is everywhere. It is the storm that is small and passing; actually, more than that -- the storm itself is nothing but the calm. "Happiness is thus a state of being – a state in which our mind’s habitual agitation is calmed. The activity of our mind disturbs it from its calm state of just being, and causes it to lose sight of its own innermost happiness. To enjoy happiness, therefore, all our mind need do is to cease all activity, returning calmly to its natural state of inactive being, as it does daily in deep sleep." This is misleading. True happiness is... precisely not a state. It is our constant, unchanged, always-existing nature. It is the case regardless of whatever happens in our mind. Granted that a relative bliss may be more in a calmer mind, and that such a calm mind is indeed a wonderful thing, true happiness is beyond all objects, including a calm mind. True happiness is the removal of ignorance, the ignorance that makes us believe that what is in our mind is what determines our happiness. This quote is dangerous, too, as it implies that if the mind keeps thinking, happiness is inaccessible. This is not so unless thinking if understood in a very specific way. Namely, to the jnani, thinking is not thinking, because the "I" that is identified with the thinker is understood as false. "Therefore to master the art of being happy, we must master the art and science of just being. We must discover what the innermost core of our being is, and we must learn to abide consciously and constantly in that state of pure being, which underlies and supports (but nevertheless remains unaffected by) all the superficial activities of our mind: thinking, feeling and perceiving, remembering and forgetting, and so on." Again, pure being is not a state. It seems like a state to a seeker, but it is constant. This whole thing suggests that it's all about practice, like learning an instrument. It only seems so for a while. In truth it is more like a misconception that is dispelled. It's not a skill, it's not a science, it's not an art, it's not a practice (except temporarily) -- it is about a seeing that dispels an illusion.

@peanutspathtotruth haha yeah kunjal its probably very healthy. its just the acid going in your esophagus isnt ideal, especially if u dont neutralize it right away. But i was reading in the hatha yoga pradapika(basically a best of from like 1400-1800 of yogic practices) and they say the best things to do everyday are the kunjal followed by the jula neti. i used to always get crazy soreness in my upper back and basically kunjal kriya seemed to be the best at getting rid of that fast. also enemas are huge too I do enemas everyday. and yeah ive heard of the coffee stuff, never tryed. but im sure it really gets you pumped. basically the whole point is to make sure ur having that deuce right away and flushing the toxins out right away in the morning. cause when u do yoga later on or work out, ur bascially putting your intestines/liver/lymphatic system back to work pulling out more toxins, but if u dont those toxins will just spread out again. also when u drop that morning deuce, ur opening up ur sacral big time cause basically ur sacral is heavily tied to to you large intestines. thus opening your hips faster and quicker and getting rid of the toxins there, also reducing your attachment to the thought currents, of not being good enough, which is our hugest weakness, as men. also women too, but they have a worse root they say. men are driven by lust(rooted in our root, weaker sacral), women by fear(rooted in sacral, hence they are usually more often likable, than men, but than their root is their weakness) here's a great link for the kriyas/morning cleansing routine. http://www.nithyananda.org/Nithyananda-eNcyclopedia/Pancha Kriya.html anyways best of luck! i hope you reach that eternal bliss!

you may do exactly the same things you did when you were not unconditionally happy, I had a wife when I was unhappy, there's no reason to dump her now, the relationship will be better, cause she can't annoy me anymore, so we won't argue much, It is not like a sexual orgasm, it's way better, the normal feeling is a deep peace, really deep peace, imagine if you had zero worries and zero problems, how would you feel ? And is not just it, I remember yesterday I was walking on the street and I would look at the people, but I didn't see 'them' it's like every one was so innocent and pure, you see beauty in everything, you see behind the 'masks' that people use, behind their names, and professions, and who they say they are, you see the best of them, if someone does something 'bad' you see that them didn't know any better, so you don't judge anyone, so you are in peace, and you see peace wherever you go, I felt some picks of feelings that I could describe as bliss, but the standard feeling is peace, at least this is my experience. When I say you do because you do, I mean that you do what your body, mind, was programmed to do before, I won't all of a sudden start to play football, because I've never done that, but I can still watch movies and eat the same things I did before,,so the body/mind will still function the way they did before.

Thanks for sharing. This morning I found out that happiness can never be an object of experience. Just like you cannot ever be an object of experience! What we conventionally know as happiness, is not happiness at all! Just like what we conventionally think ourselves to be has nothing to what we really are. It was so clear all of a sudden that I finally understood why in advaita vedanta the Self is called existence-consciousness-bliss. Bliss and the Self are literally one and the same thing. You cannot ever 'know' happiness, just like you cannot ever 'know' yourself as an object. Happiness is just another name of you. Maybe forgotten but yet it's still there. Edit: This is why I said even if you are 99% happy, you aren't done yet. Keep going. You still haven't realized yourself. Complete self-realization will simultaneously be complete happiness. In fact, they are the same thing.

YES!!! Sink into it. Surrender to it. It is bliss.

Glad to hear bro. Love and bliss are synonymous in my opinion. Shine that bliss to everyone. Be that bliss.

today, when I woke up, I felt bliss three times Was that this love?

My Kundalini awoke 7 years ago. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It is a scary 2 years that followed it. Now I think I am in balance of it. It feels nice, but still is strange. I tell you what the awakened kundalini human does experience besides feeling that bliss you guys are talking about: They have a knowing that everyone on the planet has amazing gifts to offer. THat there is no such thing as an inferior race. That love abounds us all. We are all wonderful.

I doubt sadhguru feel fear. "isn't bliss meant to stop all of these things from happening, when you bring the true self- back through your human self after seeing everything as one god" Yes, true. "like do you experience anger and sadness. or should i say does becoming anger and sadness, still happen to you" Hasn't happened for a long time. If it does, it quickly dissolve naturally.

@Aakash In hindu tradition, the primary job after self-realization is being grounded constantly in Being..which eventually leads to a more and more Satvic mind-body. A satvic body-mind is the most perfect conductor to channel the bliss of Self. Better the mirror, better the reflection.

@Preetom @Highest i see because of the bliss , so a person can be blissful and crying aswell as blissful and angry at a dog

@Highest so does sadghuru still feel fear, isn't bliss meant to stop all of these things from happening, when you bring the true self- back through your human self after seeing everything as one god like do you experience anger and sadness. or should i say does becoming anger and sadness, still happen to you

Nice music. It's detective music. I like music too. Well, it depends on what kind of music. So far, to me, this one is a lovely song for enlightenment: It may sound like a song for an intimate relationship, but I could understand why it could be for enlightenment too. Btw, there is a love ("bliss") aspect of enlightenment. I don't understand why Leo has to experience enlightenment a few dozen times via 5meo. Looks like that strong bliss from the Nothingness (No-self) is making him cry tears of joy in his "Becoming God" video. I don't know for sure. I'm not Leo. I could only guess. If 5meo does produce enlightenment, I don't understand why he needs to experience it that many times.

I get what you mean, especially in your current state of mind, but perhaps what your failing to grasp is that it's always been this way, always, but ignorance is bliss sometimes. Also, there is a bit of a correction that needs pointed out. The "something else" you are referring to is "you" (awareness), your true identity. It's not some "thing" (ie. object), other than you, thats seeing through "your" apparent eyes.

I spoke with Jan about Kundalini Shakti about such a case. Here's what he said: You probably had Kundalini arousal, and not awakening. Awakening is possible only when the knots in the subtle body are untied, either by hardcore practice or by Shaktipat. And Kundalini awakening doesn't gurantee bliss asap. It gurantees that awakened kundalini will guide you towards liberation. It's up to you to follow that guidance,

Well, Jan Esmann, the "kundalini master" says that you can't even gain Self Realization without Kundalini generally, except in "rare cases". I wonder if a lot of people have active Kundalini and don't know it though. I have, for years, had all the signs / symptoms of K awakening / activity yet I didn't get the "extreme bliss" that supposedly HAS TO come with it. Which made me think for years there was something wrong with me as I was doing K yoga and other stuff, recieved Jan's "shaktipat in absentia" ($100 necklace) and nada...

@AlphaAbundance Me too, severely. What’s great about not suffering is not suffering. If your scale is based on 0 - 20 and suffering is 10 - 20 range, and joy is 3 - that is not actually joy. That is “joy” experienced through a thought story. Like how a tiny bit of light might be shining through a window that is 99% draped. Something terrible is observed, “joy” instantly goes from 3 to 0. JOY is no drape at all. Every cell is elated! No line between where a body ends and bliss begins, the body is bliss! THAT is JOY. Something terrible is observed.....JOY sky rockets!! There is no drape, all is illuminated! No more RE-ACTing, (repeating). Over and over, never ending - RE- JOY-cing. Around here, “seeking” has a microcosm definition based on the existence of and defeating of, an “ego”. So consider a meaning for “seeking” as more broad than this forum, spirituality, etc. More broad than “beating an ego to death”. If only for this post / explanation, let’s define suffering as experiencing a thought story, and seeking as trying to experience reality as it is (Actuality). Using a similar scale analogy.... Person A: Suffering is 5. Seeking is 5. Occasional joy. Person B: Suffering is 1. Seeking is 1. Occasional joy. Person C: Suffering is 10. Seeking is 10. No joy. BUT...Though Person C is suffering at 10, they are also seeking at 10. Person C ain’t messing around here. Suffering to Person C is not a game, they do not take it lightly, they don’t have time for wasting. Person C isn’t “meditating once and a while”. Person C isn’t “considering trying psychedelics”. Person C WILL END THE SUFFERING, NO THING WILL STOP THEM. So eventually, Person C awakens. Now, Person C .... Person C. Suffering 0. Seeking 0. JOY, &. RE-JOYcing. *Again, keep in mind that living life via a thought story is suffering. “Can you describe it?” Yes. Reality as it is. No thought stories. When one ignores sensations, thinking then supplies a thought story to accommodate the ignore-ance. Thought story “makes sense” of the experience, but does not include the simple fact that one has ignored the sensations. Why not? Because it’s thinking. It is not sensations. Thinking has no need for concern of sensations, nor concern of the avoidance / ignore-ance of sensations.

@Truth Addict Yes that is correct. The intentions really don't matter in the end because all fall away at the last moment. Enlightenment isn't ever what you think it is. It's not God realization, those are just in the mind. The experience if you want to call it that is completely indescribable. Calling it void and bliss is already too much. Enlightenment doesn't resolve the paradoxes of the mind by giving verbal answers - all those are still allegories and metaphors. It is what it is.