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I think nothingness exist but objects also exist. And currently I don't see a connection between them but maybe I will some day. Yeah maybe that wasn't a good analogy. If you get stabbed in one hand your other hand doesn't feel it.

That materialistic? To me it sounded like the general idea that reality can exist without a perceiver. (At least a human one - which is probably true) Perhaps the only perceiver needed is nothingness/teotl, in which case he is CORRECT.

the practical guide to enlightenment what if true non-duality was just being nothingness being human , nothingness being anger, nothingness being happy, nothingness being sad, nothingness being me, nothingness being you, nothingness being itself, nothingness being something, nothingness being nothing, nothingness being total, nothingness being words, nothingness being time, nothingness being future, nothingness being past, nothingness being non duality, nothingness being non duality what if relaxing and being is the only thing that you can do but ofcourse you can't because you always have the problem that there has to always be someone doing lol, and this is incomprehendable to an ego because they are the finite self but what if? you are just being in the literal sense, no connotations, no annotations just being hence you are already enlightened you just aren't conscious of it.

@How to be wise but what if fear and anger aren't bad? what if it's pure nothingness BEING anger and fear itself, there in itself is no doership/ something done / or something happening. there is only an illusion of something happening ?

the indivisable is being this is where my self-inquiry has led me. at all times you are nothingness itself. its like the whole point of enlightenment is to reliquish your doership or seperate self true or false? i'm not actually looking for an answer, there is nobody who is asking the question. i just wanted to express my excitement and so i hope you can engage in a brace the question with the full might of your being. and express it in which ever way you feel like you can express it, with your being. like the jello lol, it was a good expression of it. you are inside the jello, but you can not see how you are it.

@TheAvatarState i just came to the realisation that we may this all backwards, everything is nothingness and nothingness is everything its hard to hold both statements in your end at one time, but when you realise they collapse on eachother, it always leaves you with the same thing being.

@Joseph Maynor bare with me, i just had a realisation, about exactly what you just wrote before i came online, its so weird that i can't express it fully, its just that isn't being enough, we are all trying to find lofty ideologies and meaning behind the word enlightenment but at its purest levels, you are nothingness and therefore being itself, when you are sad, you are being sad, when you are happy you are just being happy. what need to write a whole book on enlightenment when the simple truth is that all there is is being. whether some people find the pill to swallow that it may not be your life that you are living- it doesn't change the fact that you are being. relaxing and being is all that there is. its like the whole point of enlightenment is to give up your sense of doership and relish in your true self, which is all but fancy terms, you are still going to be the present moment itself. no attachment to anything is fine, everything is fine. its like the more you do this, the happier and peaceful your meant to become, thats fair to say, but it doesn't matter if your experience was positive or negative, you were still the same thing always being.

Consciousness = Nothingness = Everything But the question is, how conscious are you?

@ajasatya @TheAvatarState I have relapsed and am finding it quite peaceful, but ultimately the single enlightened state is what the pointers are towards yes, but the scriptures and the duality bought about from different traditions can not lead you to enlightenment directly, they are all teoltlizing so to speak . the simplicity is: that everything is nothingness there is also no depth to it either, it may seem like it from the perspective of going from not knowing to knowing. just a friendly reminder hence the reason buddah reached perfect enlightenment. but what your speaking is true all religions start from the need to express the nothingness and hence end up creating fluff in different manners

@Leo Gura On one end some people say that everything there is is consciousness, on the other end some say the only thing there is is Nothingness. I'm a bit confused here, can you give a quick explanation?

∞! -> Absolute Infinity 0 -> Nothingness 1 -> thingness / finiteness X -> every finite self ∴ -> therefore Chapter 1: Birth 0 / ∞! = X Chapter 2: Everything In Between X + (1 * ∞) = 1^n = ∞! Chapter 3: Death X - 1^n = 0 BONUS CHAPTER: Enlightenment X + √ X = X ↯ ∴ X = 1^n (Please note: this is all just meant figuratively and is not properly mathematical at all)

Explanation for those who might have trouble grasping what I'm trying to get across with this 0 / ∞! = X As a partial manifestation of Absolute Infinity, out of total formlessness and no-thing-ness, the finite self (you) emerges (along everything else that is perceivable). X + (1 * ∞) = 1^n = ∞! You as the finite self, thinking that you are separate to everything else "around you", interact with all kinds of "other things" of infinite variety throughout your life. 1^n represents that the entirety of all those interactions and of all this interplay is fundamentally all finite - and, because it's 1 to the n'th power, all of the exact same nature, meaning that everything is ultimately just consciousness interacting with itself in all kinds of differnt ways, even though in the end, it all comes back to 1, no matter how large the number of the power may be. Thus, this is equal to Absolute Infinity, or more precisely Absolute Infinity at play, expressing itself. X - 1^n = 0 Once you, as the finite self, lose all finitudes you're attached to, i.e. your body primarily or all other finite material or non-material acquisitions, you then go back to Source, or Nothingness respectively. Now, if we want to throw karma in the mix, that's debatable, but essentially that's how it goes/ends and finally starts all over again. X + √ X = X ↯ ∴ X = 1^n As the finite self discovers, or gets in touch with its root(s) and its origin, it realises that its total finitude, which it was certain of prior to self-realisation, is an illsuion. Therefore, it is now clear that the finite self is just another emergence of consciousness, which will pass away just like everything else that is finite, but that the real Self is concsiousness itself, which never ceases or fades away.

@Yoshy Wonderful:) Well, you see, there's really no differnece between life as it is now and a so-called "afterlife". As you can see in the first equation, that which you emerge from is Nothingness - and in the end, to Nothingness you will return. This is a ceaceless cycle. Enlightenment, then, is more or less the realisation that you who expects to be reborn, in the exact same way as you are right now perhaps, is an illusion because you are not differnt from 1^n - not different from anything else that is finite. But, the good news is that the real you which lies underneath all finiteness will remain exactly where it is, what it is, and how it is for eternity. So in the end there is nowhere to go or to come from. This is obviously just a partial fragment of the "whole" explanation but I obviously can't sit here for forever to "explain" enlightenment to you. That's your job to fully grasp and experience.

The problem is that the ones who are conscious of the nothingness won't go out there talking about, they'll keep quiet, why is that ? Because to whom they'll talk to anyway, but sometimes people read something in a book, think they understood and try to preach it to others. Also, if you were conscious of it, you wouldn't have written this

Gurdjieff on Conscience, as recounted to P.D. Ouspensky in “In Search of the Miraculous,” taken from the edition published by by Paul H. Crompton Ltd 2004, Pages 155-156. “‘Conscience’ is again a term that needs explanation. “In ordinary life the concept ‘conscience’ is taken too simply. As if we had a conscience. Actually the concept ‘conscience’ in the sphere of the emotions is equivalent to the concept ‘consciousness’ in the sphere of the intellect. And as we have no consciousness we have no conscience. “Consciousness is a state in which a man knows all at once everything that he in general knows and in which he can see how little he does know and how many contradictions there are in what he knows. “Conscience is a state in which a man feels all at once everything that he in general feels, or can feel. And as everyone has within him thousands of contradictory feelings which vary from a deeply hidden realization of his own nothingness and fears of all kinds to the most stupid kind of self-conceit, self-confidence, self-satisfaction, and self-praise, to feel all this together would not only be painful but literally unbearable. “If a man whose entire inner world is composed of contradictions were suddenly to feel all these contradictions simultaneously within himself, if he were to feel all at once that he loves everything he hates and hates everything he loves, that he lies when he tells the truth and that he tells the truth when he lies; and if he could feel the shame and horror of it all, this would be the state which is called ‘conscience.’ A man cannot live in this state; he must either destroy contradictions or destroy conscience. He cannot destroy conscience, but if he cannot destroy it he can put it to sleep, that is, he can separate by impenetrable barriers one feeling of self from another, never see them together, never feel their incompatibility, the absurdity of one existing alongside another. “But fortunately for man, that is, for his peace and for his sleep, this state of conscience is very rare. From early childhood ‘buffers’ begin to grow and strengthen in him, taking from him the possibility of seeing his inner contradictions and therefore, for him, there is no danger whatever of a sudden awakening. Awakening is possible only for those who seek it and want it, for those who are ready to struggle with themselves and work on themselves for a very long time and very persistently in order to attain it. For this it is necessary to destroy ‘buffers,’ that is, to go out to meet all those inner sufferings which are connected with the sensations of contradictions. Moreover the destruction of ‘buffers’ in itself requires very long work and a man must agree to this work realizing that the result of his work will be every possible discomfort and suffering from the awakening of his conscience. “But conscience is the fire which alone can fuse all the powders in the glass retort which was mentioned before and create the unity which a man lacks in that state in which he begins to study himself. “The concept ‘conscience’ has nothing in common with the concept ‘morality.’ “Conscience is a general and a permanent phenomenon. Conscience is the same for all men and conscience is possible only in the absence of ‘buffers.’ From the point of view of understanding the different categories of man we may say that there exists the conscience of a man in whom there are no contradictions. This conscience is not suffering; on the contrary it is joy of a totally new character which we are unable to understand. But even a momentary awakening of conscience in a man who has thousands of different I’s is bound to involve suffering. And if these moments of conscience become longer and if a man does not fear them but on the contrary co-operates with them and tries to keep and prolong them, an element of very subtle joy, a foretaste of the future ‘clear consciousness’ will gradually enter into these moments.

I am currently reading "Mastering the core teachings of The Buddha" by Daniel Ingram, and what a beautiful book! Only 40 pages in so far, but I feel like this is a golden nugget. I decided to try one of the meditations in the book, just being aware of the impermanence of all sensory experiences like: emotions, feelings, thoughts etc. And became somewhat aware of that there is no me, it was like, I couldn't really get to that radical point of no self, because my mind really tried to figure out what I was, if I wasn't the person I believe to be, my mind came up with all sorts of idea that maybe I am just movement, or energy, but that is still not a permanent thing, so I can't be that, so I tried to become aware of me being everything, just becoming reality ish, and I felt like I was somewhat getting there, but I couldn't really proceed from that point, it was like I could watch my persona from something else, my perspective was lifted and maybe my consciousness was raised a little, I am not really sure, this is a true noob trap I guess, but do you guys have any idea on things to be aware of when this happens? There is one thing that is really confusing me, let's say if I am infinite and that field of infinity, why should that be manifested from my POV, why do I see only this narrow part of infinity if I am infinity, I just visualize infinite as me being able to leave my body and almost be able to look everywhere in the world lol, like a god-mode kinda thing, but of course I am just misinterpreting this, but would be nice if someone could help me sort this out, or maybe I should just figure it out myself by delving deeper into my meditation and consciousness work, but would be nice to hear your thoughts on this! After this experience, only a few hours ago, I've been pretty balanced in my emotions I feel, like I can detach from my inner struggles, because I can in a minor way just detach myself from my ego. Also, if I am not my persona, my body, and I can't identify with anything, then I must be everything and nothing at the same time..? I have this thought that when I am unconscious and just living my day-to-day life, and not paying attention to me or anything else, or let's say when I'm sleeping and not thinking, my mind is nowhere, so not attaching to anything, so in my sleep I am actually enlightened? I can reach this state when I am in meditation as well or being creative like drawing etc., where I have no sense of time or me, is it all about becoming aware and embodying this nothingness? But what should I embody this in haha? Maybe it's just my mind that can't accept that I am everything and nothing, it has to be something I feel, but this is kinda where the trap is right? That was a lot of questions scattered all over the place sorry.

Enough of your egoistical antics. Nothingness is not what you think it is. Nothingness, consciousness, and infinity are identical.

Robert lanza: “If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there, does it make a sound?” Now if a person is nearby, the air puffs cause the ear drum to vibrate, which then stimulates nerves only if the air is pulsing between 20 and 20,000 times a second , nerves stimulated by the moving eardrum send signals to the brain resulting in the cognition of a noise. Only then does human consciousness conjure the noise experience. What is experiencing the absolute without nerve receptors, without brain, without the byproduct of the mind we know as the witness, the receptor of the sound or phenomena? Its easy to take some psychedellic and get to the conclusion that this is truth. But, how is experiencing enlightenment without brains? Who is the perciever, the witness of the absolute nothingness and everythiness where there isnt a neuronal system that makes a composition,a image of whats being percieved?

So saying that we are everything and we are infinite is just a cruel trick to make the people happy and unafraid of death. The trick is reduce the self to nothingness, of course nothingness i absolute and infinite. But if we are nothingness we arent "infinite consciousness living a human experience", no afterlife, or reincarnation, no quantum consciousness, not even return to the source. You smashed my hopes to hang on

You are silence. Empty of form. Nothingness. Nothing is happening, so there is nothing to fear. It is very peaceful. You are love. You are the fullness of life. All of existence is inside of you. Love will make you cry tears of joy when you see that everything is you. That all is love and silence in a unified state. Silence has transcended space and time. Therefore you were not born. You are eternally silence and love. You can live from here. Live from anywhere you want, and you are still living in complete silence, because everything is silence. When you sleep every night you return to silence and love, no personality. Empty, void, full, complete. Contemplate this before bed

In a sense, every step taken as body/mind towards nothingness/emptiness or away from body/mind remains a divisive action (desire/control based) of or as body/mind. Action of INSGHT sees so entirely/holistically that all action ceases. No forward/backwards movement at all. As Body/mind is movement. INSIGHT sees the totality of itself and ceases all movement/action in any direction. As movement in any direction is an expression of awareness’s over fascination with objective experience.

Only thing I can tell you is that when you can experience true being, everything will come , it does not come like thunder and strike you with everything it got right away, answers will come them self. Experience of nothingness could be helpful to know your true self better I guess, to find I you are looking for to tap into being, but I do not think that there is any need for it, when I first got to know nothingness I had no clue what it is about , except the fact that it is the place where everything comes from and it was from mediation, not non dual state , or anything like that, besides non dual state is still not what you are looking for if you can no locate your true self, some people might think that non dual state is just being, but you might as well still not know who you are in all of that mess, making it in completely something else.

@purerogue but doesn't one need to experience the breakthrough of emptiness/nothingness to understand the very nature of being, isn't letting go of control only second best to this, your moves will become in sync i agree, however, you will still not know of the emptiness/nothingness that is actually present @Ethankahn i am not talking about the perspective or percieving a void, when you reach emptiness in your journey, there will be no perspective, but being itself. i don't think leo has had a direct experience of the void, even if he did, he wouldn't be able to talk about it or mention it. there is not the possibility of experiencing it in your direct experience.

i read some pages of a book and understand the difference, the unitary movement is the awareness moving as a whole movement. but the knower is the underlying nothingness that exsist. so they are different but at the same time, the same thing!

Ego just hangs there suspended in the nothingness supported only by it's own illusion.