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OK, I will list the teachings I have shared here. 1) Enlightenment is not an experience, it is not even Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Self - Realization is knowledge. Knowledge is when the entire bodymind knows truth. Most "awakened" people are only aware of a cognitive realization. This is still the ego, despite 'beliefs' of non-duality. This is the major distinction between actual Self-Realization and what is being taught by the likes of Mooji, Jed Mackenna, Tony Parsons et all. 2) Karma Yoga - The jiva (person) is not responsible for his results. The field (the environment) is responsible for his results. This teaching when understood chops off a vasanas called "worry" "manipulation" and many more, because the person is not "thinking" about the results. He is not outcome dependent. That is karma yoga. 3) Vasanas - the subconscious 4) Self inquiry - Letting the I thought rest in the Self. This means putting attention onto the screen rather than any object and holding it there. You can do this while doing normal things like work. 5) Being normal. Allowing the jiva his natural tendencies and letting the Self do the purification and dissolution of delusion by itself. The jiva cannot do anything about it's mental illness. 6) Being responsible. Even though the jiva is not real, the relative domain must be aknowledged fully until full Self-Realization. S.R. is not a rationalization, an experience, or an event and it cannot be spoken of or made into a belief like the Neo Advaita crew try to teach. 7) The critique on false teachings is a teaching itself. It is designed to blow a vasana that makes the person think all the time about obtaining extra knowlege or insight from others. 8) Desire - do not make desire the enemy. Desire, intense desire for liberation is what ultimately leads to S.R. The desire must be the "right" desire, and not the desire to get involved with the illusion, but a desire to rest as the Self. Renunciation. 9) Non-duality and duality differentiation. Duality is the jivas experience, so experience must be respected and not denied, ever. Non duality, the teaching that what you see in front of you is your own thoughts, your own consciousness. But because this goes against mundane experience we need to be even more careful of ignoring duality. The Self's POV must be contemplated on deeply using the right sources for this particular non-dual path and not be mixed with other teachings that will confuse the jiva. 10) Hunt down, get involved with a Self-Realized and fully credible teacher versed in traditional Veda because if you don't then you will buy into the strawmen that the New Age have put up against the traditions. Neo Advaita and Boomeritis Buddhism and shit like crazy wisdom teachings are all gigantic straw-men arguments and sub-traditions that are incomplete and a waste of time. You need the teachers guidance when these strawmen are put up against your path.

@Nexeternity Sweet! Great poetry too! Really enjoyed it a lot. Let me ask you about how you see this problem i'm having, if i could. The first time i experienced the self as nothing more than a conceptualizing illusion, i felt like a freaking ghost. There was suddenly no "Me" to conceptualize anything. Everything up until that moment was always experienced as being "Me" inhabiting "My" body, and conceptualizing, everything. The biggest conceptualization of all , of course, was that there existed an "I" in this body to do the conceptualizing in the first place. That was the granddaddy of all conceptualizations. I feel a little schizophrenic now because I"m not enlightened. Two worlds exist, so to speak. Mind vs. no mind. There is a morphing between the two at best. When I fall back into an unawaken state. i slip and think that there is an "I" inhabiting this body, It's like a self induced hallucination of "Me". But how to stay in that state of no-self and awakened at all times? Like right now. It's "Me" thinking these thoughts and hitting these keys. This is all a hallucination of "me" happening, but what remains to know that? I keep falling back into the hallucination that there is someone here doing this. My biggest question has always been, WHAT REMAINS? It's like there is something here that shouldn't be. What's up with that? The "I" should have turned to complete ashes and smoke. Enlightenment must be amazing! Well no, that's not right, there would be no one to be amazed when enlightened. Any suggestions that could help would be greatly appreciated. I feel like a ghost in the machine since. *You like poetry, You may be well familiar with this one by Walt Whitman "I must not be awake, for everything looks to me as it has never before. Or else, I'm awake for the first time and everything that was before was just a dream"

I've been watching these videos for a couple of years now, and still cannot believe how lucky I am to find actualized.org just through a random chance. I don't even want to imagine what my life would be, if I never found out about Leo and his videos. I feel that I am such a privileged person to have access (through Leo and his advices, books that he suggests, etc.) to the best and most profound wisdom humanity has ever, ever gathered. It feels like if you were so lucky to be abducted by aliens and to be shown and taught other advanced worlds, advanced concepts, advanced purposes, advanced knowledge, principles, attitudes, goals, to be shown consciousness and being itself. With these videos, if we follow advices and do the work, we have the chance to actually be the most progressive humans ever lived. It's like a real chance to advance from homo sapiens to the next stage of human evolution. Not just become a better person and have a better life, but to actually become something more advanced than just a normal modern human - be an awakened being. Or, at very least, grow to a very pshychologically healthy and mature, truly wise person, which may be still considered as other kind of human comparing to normal people. Right now, during this life period, it becomes possible.

In Leo's video "The Amazing Power Of Psychedelics - Leo Does Magic Psilocybin Mushrooms!" Leo discussed the importance of doing self-development work to get the most out of psychedelics. I've been doing self-development work for 2 years. Is that enough? I tried LSD 2 years ago before doing any self-development work. My trip "awakened" me and I've been spending almost all of my time on self-development work ever since. Would it be worth taking more now, or should I develop for a couple more years?

Hi all , I'm new here, and it's very cool that 'I' found this place online. I had my first glimpse of enlightenment yesterday. Geez, you can't 'unsee' it can you? Ego has crept back in and is doing it's marvelous job of maintaining the illusion, but it's a bit like watching a magician's trick again after the way it was done was explained to you, or you peeked 'round the curtain, or behind the mirror. I was very emotional last night, all overwhelmed, tears of joy! Today as well, even though ego resurrected itself without much effort too. Isn't that strange? Oh what a beginning! Oh, this is going to be fun. Learning to meditate effectively and 'see' with less and less effort, I think is going to bring more 'wow' factor to this newly awakened being. Which of course just propels true joy and recognition and the actualization journey. Holy crap. Thank you very very much to Leo, and to anyone else trying to share enlightenment and awakening.

Hiya, I'm going to try and share a few interesting things going on with me since I caught a glimpse of my true nature about a week ago. Not 'understood it finally.', not 'oh okay I gotcha, I get it now!'. I was very, very, very lucky and in a completely unexpected flash, somehow, somehow I woke up. I 'saw', the same instant that I 'experienced' my true nature. It seems like when awakened people talk about their initial 'flash' of seeing, their experience of 'seeing' really translates to 'experiencing', and furthermore, 'BEING'. Maybe different words for the same thing, 'experiencing', 'being'..... This is not 'understanding'. It cannot be understood. Not until you wake up. You are asleep, and then you wake up. Understanding it did not awaken me. No, that's not right... I did not understand until the moment I was awake. If I can attribute 'time' to the experience itself of flashing awake and seeing my true nature, simply BEING my true nature, in the profound, awakening, life changing way that's talked about; I got maybe a second. Undescribeable and uncommunicateable, I'm sorry. I cried on and off for a few days. All joy. If I dwell on that moment for a second or two, the experience does not repeat like that, but the effect is the same, tears of joy... fuck- I submit. You only wake up from this once. Enlightened people on here have talked about falling asleep again, and I know what they mean, but... you can't have the initial awakening over and over. There's no way to forget the experiencing of your true nature for the first time for it to really suprise you again. I am very very new at this, and still very emotional. My ego has been blown up. It's a relief that I cannot describe yet. Unpacking it all....? I'm a monkey-mind whirlwind even though underneath I know. I haven't been able to work for most of this week. That will change and be fine. No sadness yet, no panic. Some psychosomatic stuff when ego tries to put up any real resistance. You can't mistake any aspect of ego for anything else really anymore. I can't 'not recognize' ego doing it's thing now. No aspect of it. When it's not you, it's simply not you. No more; 'Gee, that must be ego talking, gotta watch for that.' Make no mistake, my ego is there at this point. It's helping me a little bit with sanity right now. Can't walk around all day with that thousand yard stare and my jaw all dropped. Ok, yeah I can, but didn't in public. Remember, ego is still here. Guess that's where the real work starts. It's disconcerting to the ego to be suddenly exposed completely, but it dosn't just pack it's suitcases and leave town. Not in my case. It's naturally clever, and very strong. It is not managing to fool me. There really has been no backsliding... but the ego has been very desperately trying to rip the shit out of my awakening experience. It can't. So strange to know what the ego is for real, and still have it there. It blew apart, but didn't cower and leave. Ok, so...awakened and enlightened do not go hand in hand as I can see so far. Yeah I know - wordplay... but the ego needs to be banished for good, and as awake as I am, it's playing it's role and it is very effective. Not fooling me, but I have not killed it. I guess this is where I begin to put it to rest so my awakened state is more than ...no that's not right either, being awake finally can be no more than, or less than. It's very weird to let yourself be a little confused, when you know you're not really confused anymore. This will pass because it must. Wow, brain-burn, wee bits of anxiety spread up weakly through torso. Short lived but nagging. Adrenaline streaks. Short lived tingles. The ego FIGHTS! So strange to have 'awakened' and still have so much more to learn. I need time. I will need to learn how to meditate for real. I know what I am, and it's huge... but that ego - unbelieveable. (Well, literally unbelieveable...) Not sure what else to write here right now, may need to have another cry, fuck, this is crazy but so good. I'm not at all sure about posting like this, gotta talk about it somewhere though. I hope to share and maybe help, but it may be a while before I stop sounding like an arbitrarily rambling and gushing, mistaken wannabee or a deluded shortcut-taker. That's it for now, I feel like I need about an hour of deep breathing and deep sighs after trying to convey any of this. So, so strange, looking back at what I wrote, crying happy overwhelmed tears, realizing that so far, words have failed me completely.

@MalAbout Personality disorder I found that Suzanne Segal had a similar experience that was diagnosed as depersonalization disorder. I think that the girl you've mentioned really had a strong "no self experience", but that doesn't happen because she read something or because someone told her about that. There's thousands of people who watch videos on youtube and nothing happens to them. That's clearly her consciousness getting awakened on her, but if she's not really prepared she can think that shes going crazy, I tell you that because it happened to me too. Now I see clearly what happened, and I know that even at that moment I needed the therapists, they were really confused about what happened... and let me tell you that I am still taking pills and now I feel much better than my own therapist. I know I won't need those pills never anymore, because nothing in my mind is real, nothing in my mind affects me the way it used too. So my mind can go fucking crazy and people will see me outside like a normal person, because I am focused on my "being-ness" I don't pay attention to thoughts when they go crazy, the monkey mind as we call it. Check this link, this is what happened to Suzanne Segal, it's interesting. I don't think Leo has nothing to do with the problems of other persons, he can't create anything or make anyone believe this or that. Same thing about anything said or written on this forums. Everything is what it "is". Nothing wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Segal I'll post some fragments here because I think it can cast some light about this: "One day in 1982, while boarding a bus in Paris, the 27-year-old Segal experienced a sudden shift in her consciousness. She described the experience in her book, Collisions With the Infinite: "I lifted my right foot to step up into the bus and collided head-on with an invisible force that entered my awareness like a silently exploding stick of dynamite, blowing the door of my usual consciousness open and off its hinges, splitting me in two. In the gaping space that appeared, what I had previously called 'me' was forcefully pushed out of its usual location inside me into a new location that was approximately a foot behind and to the left of my head. 'I' was now behind my body looking out at the world without using the body's eyes." Segal described this first period of her experience as "witnessing", since she was aware of herself but also critically detached from it. This was tremendously unpleasant for her, full of anxiety and fear: The moment the eyes opened the next morning, the mind exploded in worry. Is this insanity? Psychosis? Schizophrenia? Is this what people call a nervous breakdown? Depression? What happened? And would it ever stop? ...The mind was in agony as it tried valiantly to make sense of something it could never comprehend, and the body responded to the anguish of the mind by locking itself into survival mode, adrenaline pumping, senses fine-tuned, finding and responding to the threat of annihilation in every moment."

Think about it... what Buddhism says that the root of the problem is, the root of the problem is that we see ourselves as separated beings. You "think" you are a separated being so you act in that way. If you are not the others, of course you will doubt if having empathy is the right way to go. Think about all the common things on the different religions or philosophies. All of them talk about "transcending the self". When you transcend the self you will see that you and your neighbor are the same. Do you think you won't have empathy for someone who is also you? When you are doing something "wrong" to other, you do it to yourself. I am not "conscious" or awakened, but I can see a commonality on religious, spiritual stuff and I think it make sense. That's the only way you can "love your neighbor as yourself", otherwise is pretty difficult. We are what we think we are. That's something Buddha said too. And I don't say it like because they are awakened beings we have to follow them blindly, there's something behind that idea of separated self that transcends all and love all without conditions, and that can shine through you too. It was always you but you (and me) let it be obscured by thoughts about being separated selves isolated from the universe and from other human beings. We are all one.

Thank you Ayla, having a few authentic teachers around has suddenly become, ...very grounding for me and is so absolutely perfect right now. I may try my own thread here in a while, it's all too new for me to articulate very well so far. Sure is perfect that I found Leo, and then this place, and more awakened leaders and guides, as I am so NEW!!

Week 4 *** Hours Sat: 105 Hours sat this week: 29 Current daily average: 3.75 Experiences: The opening sit of the week was one of the worst experience I've had in my entire life. My alarm went off at 4:00am but I only started at 4:30 because it was freezing and I was feeling lazy. The first few minutes were pretty normal but I lost track of time completely after that point. Gradually the resistance welled up inside of me like battery acid was leaking over my organs. My heart started pounding, I started shaking. It felt like my head was going to explode, both from the physical feeling of pressure and the barrage of thoughts that started hitting me from all sides. As the resistance deepened I started to feel physically ill all over my body, like my veins were filled with hot tar. I remember once I drank an entire bottle of vodka on a night out and ended up begging for death on the floor of a nightclub toilet. This was exactly like that, combined with strong negative emotions and negative thought. I started retching; physically trying to vomit, my stomach was empty though so nothing came up. My room couldn't have been more than 5 degrees but I was drenched in sweat. I just sat there and remembered Mooji talking about Sri Ramana Maharishi: I said to myself “there's nothing back there for you” The pain in my ass, knees, back and ankles intensified as time progressed. I literally felt like a resistor in a circuit would feel if it had a nervous system and gradually had more and more electric current pushed through it with increasing voltage. I have no idea how long this lasted but it felt like a thousand years. Then in the space of about 5 seconds I dropped into a new dimension. It felt like bomb diving into a swimming pool where the implosion of cool water hits your entire body at once. Every single muscle in my body relaxed and I went into deep REM. All of the activity of my mind ripped apart like an engine that had run past its max rpm and had run out of oil. All words lost their meaning and I separated out from the mind completely, I could "see" it just as a movement of energy in front of "me". The pain in my body/emotional centres felt like it was being sucked out of me. A bit like if you open all the windows of a house on a hot summers day and a cool breeze rushes in. The really painful parts of my body still felt the same but the relationship to the pain changed 100%. If you are holding your hands in a fire it's excruciating but if your hands are near a fire on a cold day its beautiful. In both cases the fire is the same. The pain was the same before and after “the drop” but now the pain was kind of beautiful. This is the best analogy I could come up with. I finished the sit, everything was completely the same as before; I felt “normal-ish" is what I mean, but I was still completely blown away by what had happened. I didn't know suffering could just stop so rapidly like that and I didn't know it was possible to go so far out of the mind. I've observed thoughts before but this was like a whole new layer of depth that was added, beyond description. I did 3 more 3 hour sits on Monday and then 4 3 hour sits on Tuesday. *** Every day when my alarm goes off my inner voice goes “I'm up, I'm up, I'm up” and then I reach over and turn it off. On Wednesday for some reason my alarm went off and I said to myself “I'm awake, I'm awake, I'm awake” and I turned it off. I sat for a few moments and then just burst out laughing. I'm awake. Of course! I'm awake! That's all I've ever been! I've experienced this fundamental shift many times but it's still just as surprising and relieving to realise it again. I instantly shifted from bear down to ease up meditation. I was beginning to get abiding paraesthesia down the front of my legs so I switched to sitting in a chair. It was just sitting, no effort or determination or willpower, I wasn't trying to sit still. I also wasn't just sitting physically, internally I was just sitting in “awake-ness” I prefer to say this instead of awareness because it's easier for me to understand and feel, but its consciousness/god/the witness/awareness that I'm talking about. I took my seat fundamentally as the awakened mind. This is where “choosing” enlightenment becomes possible. This guy articulates what I was trying to describe a few weeks ago with the term "willing": … And so I sat, like a king I consulting with his people I practised recognising my “awake-ness” in everything that happened to me. [sound] bird chirps (ok next) [feeling] peaceful sensations in thorax (ok next) [thought] You're not awake (ok next) [thought] (in response to previous thought) LOL! what the fuck are you talking about, of course he's awake it wouldn't be possible for you to exist if he wasn't awake. (ok next) [sound] dog barks (ok next) [physical sensation] PAIN (ok next) [thought] mental image of me writing about this (ok next) [thought] you should stop updating your journal, enlightened people are quiet (ok next) [feeling] feeling of shame (ok next) … and so on. There's no attempt at manipulation, just allowing everything to be as it is when it arrives, when its present and when it leaves. It's tricky to talk about because I've heard the same things over and over again, but now I actually get it. Its so obvious and at the same time paradoxically impossible, there isn't anyone to do non-manipulation, awake-ness is already the substrate in which everything happens, like fish swimming in the water. Everything that happens is only possible because I'm awake, of course I'm not awake, I'm in that which is awake. I just continued sitting in a chair. A chair is much easier because there's not as much pain and you don't have to concentrate so much on your body sensations/posture. I didn't record these hours, so all of my recorded hours are those that I spent meditating on my knees in front of a wall. *** On Friday it happened, what I've been trying to get to. I sat down and just kept watching and allowing, letting my resistance gradually erode away and at one point I was just awake. I heard the sound of the birds chirping but it was just the bird chirping. Not like bird over there, I'm here, oh there's the beginning of the bird chirping and now its done, no: JUST THE BIRD CHIRPING. I looked at the wall and all there was just the wall, tears were streaming down, laughter happening, dog barking, pain happening. This is literally impossible to describe because its so present there isn't even anyone there to collect details to write about, storing memories, thinking up analogies, shit just happens. I've only experienced this for a few brief moments in my life but only under extraordinary circumstances, never as result of meditation. I suspect that as I continue practising and eroding away my ego structures through the process of purification these states will become more frequent/permanent. I now really, really get what Adyashanti was talking about in the first video I linked to in my first post, its a state of willingly allowing yourself to fall away by taking your seat as consciousness - a ritual suicide ha ha. I thought I got it before, and I kinda did but now its become a fully realised teaching in me, purification has become conscious; I've developed the taste for it. I don't have to motivate myself into sitting anymore. I want to sit for 6 hours a day now. The process is quite terrifying, even outside of meditation. As I'm typing this I'm feeling the joints of my fingers scattering randomly around some keys, stringing together words out of nowhere to create something that has meaning. It's all happening on it's own and I have no control over any of it. I don't even have control over the fear that comes up as a result of realising that I have no control. All I can do is watch. All I shall do is watch with equanimity, and allow that aspect of me to gradually subside, and I know it's going to take as long as it takes. *** I'm going to add notes to my journal because there are so many things I want to document. I don't intend to try and teach or explain anything for its own sake. I just want to document how I'm thinking/feeling/rationalising through this process so that I can see any traps that I fall into and in the event of something bad happening, my notes will serve as an example of what not to do. I've found journaling to be a really useful tool to gaining insight into myself. DO NOT take anything I add here as gospel, or right, or wrong for that matter. Its just a journal and I'm still very immature spiritually so I don't really know what I'm talking about. These are some videos/speeches/songs that I used to watch to help G-up emotionally and psychologically in addition to my vision video. i don't need them anymore, but they were useful for me so I'll share them: Videos: An Invocation for Beginnings Meet the Hero Go all the way Lil dicky album trailer Olan rogers apparel adverts; good balance of hilariousness : seriousness because that's what the spiritual journey is. Spring Fall Songs: Extrodanary machine Yellow Flicker Beat

mal the ego is programing and false belief, the matrix is the collective consciousness of planet earth, and most everything is controlled by that collective consciousness or matrix through programing and false belief. and yes most all human interaction is programing, and yes it is possible for the human being to exist and not live under programing and false belief, but it has to be cleansed from consciousness in order to do that. the human identity cant cleanse the consciousness, but the awakened consciousness will cleanse itself without hard work or struggle , it simply dissolves and flows away from consciousness once awakened. As i have said before we can help this process, instead of being caught up in all the nonsense, we can give time to contemplating things of importance, like you are doing now, that kind of work and seeking out the life force within will cause consciousness to awaken much faster, and it will create change in you as the human identity, preparing you for the self realization of your consciousness which will bring change to you as the human identity, but the human identity will be the secondary carrying out the will of the awakened consciousness or being of consciousness. functioning has then shifted from the identity being to the being of consciousness.

I didnt get upset at that. I got upset because today it clicked what enlightenment is. So in my eyes I wanted to find out if you were a self proclaimed realizer, and because you gave me that answer about enlightenment meaning different things I pulled up a post where you admit that you are not enlightened. The fact is, you don't actually know what you're talking about really. So why all the nonsense and posts on how to be awakened and asserting that "enlightenment" is the pathless path? I'm not stupid.

you have guilt because you are a human being identity with an ego, you have not conquered anger yet, for as long as you are the human identity anger will be lurking close by and when you least expect it, it will appear out of no where, yes i know you are seeing it but you have not conquered the human identity yet, and to do that requires a fully awakened or self realized consciousness. so the answer to your question is the evolution of your consciousness, now how will you raise it? what can you do to raise your level of consciousness or cause a greater awakening of your consciousness. do you hold a belief system at present, have you examined the programing that you have been subject to and have accepted into your own belief system. so far in your life you have been looking through a cloudy glass, one that warps the perception of what you see, feel, think, and do, how now can you see clearly to liberate yourself from your programing and false belief that is keeping you functioning as the human identity.

It is a speculation based on moments of no self manifesting that I've had. I'm not enlightened, but I think my description is accurate based on what self-proclaimed self-realizers have told me. A general disposition caused by a deep sense of peace means that when awakened there would be nothing to hold onto in the same way we as a human identity holds onto things. Human identities hold onto grudges, pain, thoughts spinning around in our heads, values, grievances, definitions... when all that has gone, what is left but peace? And I imagine that if one is experiencing that amount of peace then happiness is surely a way of life rather than a destination or a state dependent on the pain/ pleasure principle.

Here's an interesting exercise: The inverse question. Why shouldn't you? If you can be happy just like that, does it even matter that you're working? In Eckhart Tolle's New Earth there is this concept called the three modalities of awakened doing and one of the is joy. Leo tells you that you can be happy in a box and, in true green-eggs-and-ham-style, you can be happy anywhere. Also you ask why you should attempt anything in the end if it is only fleeting. Guess what? Happiness is EPHEMERAL! Guess what else? There is literally no meaning to anything you do unless you chose to instill it with some meaning. Life is a sandbox and you should appreciate it as it is. What I do is enjoy the fact that I'm in a short human experience and try to live it as if it were an adventure. What's happening to us right now, this is pretty unique and it'll only be here for so long: my only suggestion would be that you "squeeze deeply the marrow of life", as Thoreau said. Or fuck it all and pursue enlightenment/self-realization. Two perfectly valid options and neither are mutually exclusive. Make your move @Pablo Neirotti

consciousness is the ground of being and creator of all things, we are that, in a fully awakened state of being we are an all knowing all powerful source of life.

enlightenment is the same thing as self realization but i prefer the latter. enlightenment is when the transition occurs, when consciousness is awakened enough that it can shift from being and believing it is the human being or the observed to being the being of consciousness that it was before becoming lost in the identity and function as that, it is an experience, not a rationalization of it.

@Rashad The only way you can change is to become awakened.

i will do my best to answer the whiney little girl question actually i think i like your response, it says a lot. first of all let me say i understand and feel your pain, i have been in those places, the rehabs, the nursing homes, hospitals, psych hospital, on a regular basis, i have seen what you are talking about and it is horrible that people have to live like they do in those places. I ended up in icu once because i let too much and too many things get to me and wasnt handling things the way i should have been to do the work and survivie myself. the very next day after coming out of the hospital, i went to see a lady i was caring for, and it all started again, i had to lay down at her place for a few minutes and then i told her i had to go home i wasnt feeling well, and i went home and layed down, i knew then i had to change the way i was doing things if i was going to help her and live, she has had a mental condition for over 30 years, i still look after her while she is now n the psych hospital as much as i can, i spent a lot of time in rehabs, and hospitals, there is no way i would want to live like many of them have to live day to day. there are some things in life that you cannot change, cannot do something about, you have to know your limitations and it is possible to do this work without it destroying you. i have been awake a long time but i allowed myself to become too attached to the pain body of others, and you cant do that and survive or work with people like you are talking about that way. you have to pull back, maintain emotional and mental stability to be around and help people in those situations, you have to see the big picture in life, and you have to stay in reality and do it in the moment, fully aware of all of it but doing it for those other people you are involved with and those around them because you care about them and want to try to brighten their day just a little. the only way out of the pain and misery of life for yourself and others is too understand you are functioning as a human identity, and that most always involves pain, misery, and consequences of some sort. i have read your post and responded to some, your consciousness is trying to fully awaken from the dream that we are living in, and it is a dream, an illusion, as much as it seems so real, the only part of the whole thing that is real is the life that you carries your body, you consciousness, it came to experience life in a physical way, that it couldnt as consciousness, it became so attached to the physical that it primarily became lost in the identity it created to experience this life in, believing it was the identity, thereby causing it to have some experiences in physical life that can be anything from mild to horrible, until the awakening begins and change begins to happen. now you are in the process of awakening if you can understand this paragraph and trust it just a little for a period of time and try to take one step away from your physical body and imagine what it feels like to be the source that is giving your body life, this is what we are after to really discover that and be one with it, when consciousness is fully awakened, and you are functioning as that, you can function in the moments of life, seeing the reality of things you talked about, and still be able to function in a way that wont cripple your own self, and make you able to even help those around you, knowing you can only do your part to make their life better, their destiny is not in your hands, and that they to are in this dream that humans created, it is pointless to begin to question why this is happening to them until after you fully awaken then you will know the answer. you said: is it possible to week after week -year after year go into these adolescent pysch hospitals and not be affected by the crazy extremes---chemical restraints ,self harm, ect..from the children - tears, anger ,blame, all the 'normal' reactions i watch the parents expressing. one kid goes crazy and they all go crazy-its insane.one little 5 year old attacks other kids like he's freaking demonized (that was a bad joke -i not buying into demon bullshit or something ). therapist are nothing more than a struggle for me--i have drug addict friends who aren't as pushy with thiere drugs as these therapist people are i realize i am not doing well with life...are you guys suggesting to each other that if you just let things happen somehow your ok with whatever happens? i honestly can't even tell anymore if life makes me sad or just pissed off. the hard thing is none of whats happening is necessary- its all easily changeable (((what is happening is necessary, because it was created by human beings, there is no escaping that, and yes it is changeable, that is why you do what you choose to do to make it better for any and everyone of those people, but you have to do it from a place of reality, seeing the bigger picture and knowing that it is a dream for you and them but you are doing what is important to you to bring change to their dream and their life as you awaken from this dream. yes it is possible for the awakened being to do this, and be happy that you are able and can do these things for those that cant, just to be able to put a smile on many of their faces is reward enough. look deeper within yourself, everything you need to overcome this is there, take up your true state of being as a creator of life, and create the best that you can for yourself and others and be glad that you can, put a smile on your face around those other people, be there for them and know that what you do may make a world of difference in the long term outcome of their existence.)))

you can help most anyone, maybe not the way you want to help, but it may be the way they want or need help, whether they have the ablility to change are not, you cant change anyone, don't waste your time thinking about it, you can only change yourself and do for others what they need or want because you choose to for whatever reason, when you begin to try to control other peoples lives you become very responsible for the outcome. nature isnt cruel at all, and nature does care, you are just not experiencing it in its natural way. emotions are not weakness, however you can allow your emotions to create major problems for you and others, if your emotions are not coming from the right place and for the right reasons and are not stable. if you have to ask this question of how to maintain emotional stability when you will be in front of cruelty and abuse, you are not ready to help them. this will come from experience and you may pay the price for it just like i did, until, you awaken to the reality of yourself, life, and those around you and i mean in a real way, not just rationalization or intellectualizing, but rather an experience as an awakened, or self realized being, when confronted with cruelty and abuse when trying to help others, you have to be very strong in most all ways, to first not see it as cruelty or abuse, but actions of a person who is hurting, in pain, misery, cant live with themselves, many want to die. until you have had to work with people who want to kill themselves because of the pain and misery they are in, and are ready to do it, when you begin to realize that you could be the thing that pushes this person over the edge, you will give a lot of thought and consideration to what you are going to do and what you are going to say, and even how you look when you do and say it. For most of you younguns as we called them, forget about saving the world right now, find the real you and work with that, it will enable you to face what arises in the moment for you to deal with, and without that, you are screwed.

Should you have the openness to carefully look at this thread, you might be able to see the micro-anatomy of a war - any war - being played out here at personal level. People wanting to be right at any cost, people hurting each other, people trying to impose their point of view, throwing words, incapable of seeing the other's value and insecurities, incapable the understand that at the other end, there is another being. This my friends, is WAR. Now @Mal & @MarkusR, do you think you could become friends? No? You cannot? Well... the wars and the hatred and the non-acceptance "out there".... look for it INside of you. If two people cannot make peace and show understanding and compassion, how can you hope that it will be achieved by entire nations? One by one, being by being, awakened beings will stop any war and suffering there is. Think about this for a moment.

if there was a real jesus, it was made into religious fanaticism for the most part, and is pretty much worthless for liberating anyone, however those awakened can see the deeper meaning of some of the text.

@charlie2dogs Yea, thats the complicated part about being "enlightened". If you become awakened, all that is is the experience, once you have had it all you can take into the dirty world or world of the mind is that memory. I think the final transition would have to be death, otherwise you are destined to stay in this persona. Do you think some people have really reached permanent enlightenment? It seems kind of out of this world, I have a feeling you would have to be very close to death if you get into that stage.

hi markus, the human identity will never know the truth of anything, the human identity is the illusion, the illusion cannot know truth. so in order to know the truth one must become the truth, and to become the truth one has to become something other than a human being identity body. the only thing left is consciousness, and to transition from the human being to a being of consciousness, is like being an invisible being with a set of eyeballs floating in space fully aware, fully conscious. existing only in the moment, as an observer of what takes place in that moment, without attachment, without the giving of attention. to experience the awakened consciousness as a being of consciousness and not the human identity is what enlightenment or self realization is, it is the realization and the experience of not functioning as the human identity. One teacher stated, I and the father are one, few have understood that, the term father that was used was representative of consciousness, and to be one with it is to be self realized. some have this idea that everyone is enlightened, that is nothing more than a newage theory. until the consciousness that became trapped in the illusion and forgot its true estate, has fully awakened and taken up its true state of being, it is only the illusion, what is rooted within consciousness is what is keeping one in the illusion. Many are primarily gathering information, speculating and making assumptions that end up becoming a belief, there is no room for a belief system with a self realized being. to be enlightened or self realized one must achieve a state of liberation, in that the consciousness is cleansed, and the being leaves the physical body as a liberated being, not as consciousness that is trapped in the illusion, still carrying all that has been rooted in it, and the human identity cannot cleanse the consciousness, it can only be done by functioning as a being of consciousness, as it then dissolves and flows away from the liberated being. an enlightened being must maintain at least one desire in order to remain grounded in this dimension. the experience of being a being of consciousness rather than a human being cannot be fully grasp until it happens and then the dream and illusion is over, in some teachings this is known as the transition from the third eye chakra to the crown chakra, there is no road map for this, no one can take you there, it requires complete surrender and that includes your belief system, programing, and warped perception of life and even your fictitious identity.

@MarkusR Its ok. I would not expect anything less than an assumption from you. Awakening is different from enlightenment. If you want to know the difference, then start paying attention to the awakened people here. And stop assuming.