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Then this 0.01% consciousness is a fraction of 100% Absolut Consciousness. Means they must be "connected" and also "seperated" like a room in a house, with different experiences and independently conscious of itself. So the 99.99% is conscious of itself and the imagining process, and my 0.01% consciousness is not conscious of all that. My direct experience is just the fraction of Absolute Experience. Its nonduality and duality at once: the illusion of seperation is so strong that it becomes reality Is this explanation right?

Of the names you me Of the names you mentioned, Rupert Spira is very helpful as a teacher for new people to learn meditation. From that starting point they can move into many different directions. It's a place to begin from, not to finish at. Personally I find much lacking in the larger geopolitical schema that internet nonduality personalities lend themselves to and for that reason regard nondual spirituality teachings as unfinished. The application of metaphysics to social concerns is a major blind spot in all online spiritual communities. It is only remedied by concurrent study of political philosophy, economics and so forth, as well as with international travel, networking and active engagement on the ground to get direct insight of things.

Enlightenment is in most definitions defined as seeing that all appearances arise within the infinite you, being imagined by you, through you. And you are that, the Totality, Tat Tvam Asi. That includes all arisings, including the feelings and thoughts of the separate self, including memories. And of course the boat (all spiritual teachings) that carried you to the other shore, that you cast into the stream after crossing over to the other shore. They also arise just in you. Reality/True You includes every possible arising or imagined form, n+1. I also agree that Just experiencing or becoming Emptiness or Nothingness is not sufficient. You can experience the Godhead as state (Cessation, Nirvikalpha), and even experience yourself as Nothingness in a nondual infinite state, and it is not yet IT. Why? Because there are still a very very subtle feeling of Inviduality, of being separate, that will continue appearing in you. Even if it is just a very subtle "Nothing" watching the infinite. And how to get the Realization into daily life? Like, seeing the whole infinite appearance bubble arise within you in daily life? Learn to get proficient in spotting this last feeling of indviduality/separateness, and cutting them off before they fully rise up and elaborate, put You under their spell, before they get believed. A High-Speed-Search-Task for the Emptiness of the separate self arisings, as Daniel Brown once called it. And when you are fully empty (your personality is not gone, it continues working more efficient and better than ever, its just blows like the wind through the Totality that you are then), you can sustain that. Nondual, infinite, blissfull, the not so separate self or character moving in you like the wind. You realize that you have always been that Totality, before with the illusion of something separate appearing in it. @Leo Gura : I am (at least in my understanding of your writings, especially the one above) very close with my definitions of these terms to your definition on God-Realization/Enlightenment. I understand why you put so much emphasize on understanding the points you mention above, because its sooo easy to stop short, and various teachers like Jac O'Keffee or Wolinsky, Massaro (I know...), Wilber, Davidya, even Bassui a few hundred years ago.... also emphasize that a lot: Further, never stop short. It is so easy to fool yourself, and stop at Nonduality with a separate self still left and not fully seen through. I also like your wording of imagination more than the classic buddhist wording of "empty or empty of inherent existence", the question of BiploarGrowth. ("Could you define imaginary as “something not having inherent existence and being completely reliant on Consciousness/You to appear”?). So, at least in my humble opinion, the more or less only point where I put a different emphasis than you (yet, which at least in my experience, has a drastic impact wether you can carry this realization into daily life), is: This last quantum of getting totally empty of the last Individuality/separateness-arising-items arising in you, not a lense seen through, but a lense fully transcended moving in you and not seen through, which enables you to sustain this Realization sobre without pychedelics, and to get it totally unbiased of any last separate self interpreting lense. @Leo GuraLeo, just one question: Where is your line of kicking out people? I understand that probably most people who write in a not so polite way or are making fun, or being ironic/sarcastic in a not so light way, or are being arrogant, are probably not writing that while being aware of their True Nature (at least while writing it, yet some may be), but are a bit annoyed by some manifestation in their visual field (which in that case happen to be your writings). So, for them, a little challenge: How about writing it being aware that Leo is actually fundamentally not different from you, and writing your message in a loving way, even if you feel the urgency of critique? Writing while not rejecting parts of your visual field (in that case, Leos message)? I respect you and your work (which is marvelous in so many areas). I just have a different perspective on the utmost importance of getting fully empty, seeing the separate self arisings in real time fast enough and not getting hypnotized, and to be able to carry that realization described above into everyday life, and the ensuing happiness/bliss that it brings. Utmost at least in my experience, because it made the difference on so much more happiness and bliss that has come into my life so that I can not honestly write about this topic without mentioning the experience I had with this aspect. Let's respectfully agree to disagree on that one point? Namaste and all the best! Water by the River

AWAKE does not require alien consciousness. AWAKE requires that you become conscious of how you imagine the entire world into existence around yourself. It's very direct, very pure, very profound God-Realization. You need to get to the very root of what GOD is. Not as Emptiness or Nothingness, but as yourself imagining everything around you -- including your body, your memories, the Earth, and other people. And including all spiritual teachings and enlightenment. You have to realize that enlightenment, nonduality, Buddhism, meditation, sleep, birth, and death are all imaginary.

I was texting my girlfriend and she is a nerd freak just like me(although she knows nothing about nonduality)and we had a discussion about the existence of God. So I thought I would share it..because I made a really good points lol. she asked me : Her: do you think god exists? Me : of course. Her: what is your proof? Me:existence! Her: how so? Existence could be a product of chance or maybe there is multiple universes or maybe we are inside a simulation... Why does it have to be God? Me: existence is a proof of existence. God is existence actual existence. Her: I don't understand.. Which god are you talking about? Me :there can only be one God because there can only be one infinity. Her: that's true but which God is the real one? The Christian God or the hindu God etc? Me : none of them. Her: how so? Which one is it then? Have you seen him? Me : of course no. No one can and no one will. How can you see something that has no beginning and no end? Her: hmm.. But then .. What makes you sure that God exists? ..isn't it better to be agnostic? .. Maybe there is no God after all.. Me : lol. There is no way. If you are fully aware of this present moment you will know it's impossible that God doesn't exist. Her: what does that have to do with God? Me: because God is not separated from creation.. God's fingerprints are present in every moment of creation. If you can see it you can see him. Her: you just said that you can't see him.. Me :yes because God is infinite.. There is no place for both YOU and HIM to be .. He take all the place.. If he is to be present.. You have to leave first. Her: leave? Me : to die basically. To disappear. That's the only way to see God directly and to know for certain that he is real. That he is the reality itself. Her: so are you saying that God is existence.? Like the pantheism of eastern religions? Or is God a separate being who created the world and is no longer in contact with it? Me : the infinite can't be separated from anything. Yet at the same time it is always free and not limited to only include a certain finite worlds. So God is precisely this present moment that you are experiencing right now and yet he is none of that stuff and completely beyond it and beyond anything you can even imagine!, Her: that's weird lol Me : exactly. God is a weird motherfucker. Why do you think humans struggle so much with understanding God? In fact he cannot be understood. That's what makes God God. You can understand anything except God. Investigate reality as deep as you can.. And once you hit a point where your mind collapses and your logic give up.. You've reached God.. You've reached to nowhere and everywhere.

That is not my experience. At some point you take the practice off the pillow into daily life. There are techniques for doing that (for example the Mahamudra-practices described in Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown). Then, it would simply be rather unpleasant to not continue doing it. And the energetic shifts towards emptiness and nonduality continue and increase. I can imagine that falling back happens happens with something like only sitting-meditation concentration style or Koan-style (Zen, or Theravada-style). But I don't know, that is not the system I used mainly. At least according to my experience, it doesn't happen with something like the Yoga of One Taste of Mahamdura or the Yoga of Unelaboration/Skill of Recognition (Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). I don't see how that could not stick. And I don't think Genetics is the main part. I didn't have any great genetics, it took me around 15 years+, but only because I didn't get the efficient techniques at the beginning. If I would have been coached in the right way, it would have been a lot faster. Looking back, using the right techniques is so much key. If you don't, you can bang your head against the wall (or rather stare at it) for a looong time until something happens. You will not get somebody who failed at most stuff at life and without discipline there. But using the right meditation-techniques and diligence, and as soon as possible roll that out in daily life, then you will be doing fine. General understanding of the technique, diligence, and finding soon a way to make it pleasant. I believe that is key, at least it was for me. If you look for example at Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown, you have around 300-400 pages on these techniques. It is a very clear defined step-path, with many sub-techniques for each stage. The Tibetans have been doing that 1000 years, and it is in my opinion its the most sophisticated system on the planet. The Zen techniques (Koan and just sitting) look rather.... well, rudimentary compared to that. At least in my perspective. And the Theravada-techniques are not at that level of sophistication. Also just my perspective. If the meditation doesn't get pleasant after a certain time, in my opinion one is either not using the best techniques available, or is doing something wrong. Concerning the marvelous spiritual genetics topic: Here we are, in a forum in large parts based on Self-Help and quite a part of Self-Help on male-female dynamics, and there it is forbidden to blame looks, but with meditation we blame genetics. Without really knowing and having no statistics, Just because our meditation technique feels bad or boring (maybe the wrong technique, maybe there is some better stuff available?). I didn't have any special genetics for meditation, meditation was hard and not pleasant at the beginning, that is why I didn't do too much at the start. Then I stumbled (or rather read about all the different systems) over the right technique, and to this day I marvel on how infinitely much better that made my life. Today, Selling water by the River, Self Help Mindset Flavor! ( : sorry, just kidding. But I really mean all of the above. Never limit the belief in what you can achieve. Of course, don't be unkind to yourself and overload you, but never stop believing! Here the 2-Year-Old with nearly most of his skin burned who went flying Air Force Jets, including the fastest of them: How do you think that 2-year-old would have gone for meditation? Get blocked my limiting beliefs?

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

Biggest trap I believed from nonduality, hands down. Very clever way to deceive yourself from seeing YOURSELF.

I agree. Ego-Loss and Presence is not final Enlightenment. Ego-Loss and Presence would be Roger Thisdells stage 3 and 4, a more or less transparent Witness, and that can include Nonduality and Unity-states. Not his stage 5, True No-Self, or final Enlightenment. His videos are on Youtube, see my previous posts. At the end, when only the individuality-feeling of the Transparent Witness remains, and even that is seen as moving in the True You or Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself, among with all other mere appearances of the Visual Field, then there is insight into the Ultimate Nature of Reality and your True Self. Not before. That is called Great Enlightenment in Zen, or Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. All small Enlightenments before are called Kenshos or smaller Satoris (Nonduality, Unity, certain Ego-losses). But the final and total drop of the separate self arisings is the Great Enlightenment, the insight into the nature of Existence/Reality and the real You. Version 1, Peter Ralston: Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that". Version 2, The Supreme Source, God-Realization Dzogchen-style: My intuition is with the importance you lay on God-Realization: Never stop short - on which I fully agree. Thats the worst mistake one can do - stop short in understand what You and Ultimate Reality really are. I really agree on that. Apparently, understanding that everything is just appearance arising in the True You, Reality itself, and what that True You and Ultimate Reality are, is paramount. But why aim for understanding all of the endless/infinite perspectives (Alien Minds, whatever...) that work together to give rise to all these appearances, when by definition its infinite and endless (n+1) and never can be fully understood, and call that God-Realization, and give it a higher meaning than the Full Classic Enlightenment? Isn't Ultimate Reality the final Godhead? Infinite other dimensions run and understood by other Alien Godminds? Aren't these other realms not just... more appearances arising in Ultimate Reality? Why place more importance on these insights, which by definition can never be complete, than on the understanding of the "wetness" of each wave of appearances in the ocean of Ultimate Reality? Which by the way, is the definition of final Enlightenment (or Great Enlightenment in Zen, see Kapleau three pillars. Not the preliminary ones, Kenshos and smaller Satoris, which show Nonduality and various other facets). But the real thing, like Ralston said, what Reality is and what You really are. Why not get the wetness and bliss of the ocean in your everyday-life, and then go exploring the Alien Godminds? Or do you aim for that with exploring the Alien Godminds? As always: Review the perspectives, and if one doesn't like the kind of water that is being sold here at the river, look deeply into yourself if you are not already the river... ( : He who knows the well doesn't drink out of the jar. And doesn't angry on other jars. PS: And besides, in exploring these Alien-Godminds, I think you are doing an awesome pioneering job, stuff for the history books in the future. What would really delight me is if you find within yourself a place living from which brings you a radiating bliss and love in your everyday life 24/7, and freedom from psychological suffering. All the best and bon voyage!

Correct. When consciousness reaches levels beyond human -- way beyond nonduality, Buddhism, and even most psychedelic trips -- it transforms into alien forms of consciousness and intelligence. All human spirituality is just that -- human. It is not the same as an advanced alien mind. Surely you understand that there exist aliens in the universe with brains 100x larger and smarter than yours. The most enlightened human is like an ant next to that level of consciousness. Now ask yourself, how would it feel to stop being human and become that alien? What would that kind of intelligence/mind feel like? Well, what I am telling you is that I know, because I have directly become it. And I can tell you that it turns all human spiritual understanding to shame. No human on this planet is that conscious. I cannot maintain such a level of consciousness for long, but at least I know that it exists and what it is like. It is utterly radical and nonhuman. That's a lot closer to the kind of intelligence that designed reality. Human intelligence is incapable to comprending reality's design. Your genetics and brain are too limited. Even if you were born very spiritually gifted. Remember, humans are just ants in the grand scheme of thing. The only reason humans act like the ultimate is because no one is around to put us to shame. Human intelligence is infinitesimally small. Imagine what it's like to be an ant relative to a human. Then imagine what it would be like to be an advanced alien relative to a human. Your mind would be so advanced you would experience reality in a completely new way. This goes way beyond merely not having ego. Ego and egolessness are just a small part of your consciousness and your life. Even if you lose all ego, your experience of reality will still be extremely limited and basic. Your understanding will still be very low. Ego loss and presence is not what this work is truly about. That is a minor matter in the end. There are much larger issues at stake. You cannot comprehend GOD merely by losing your ego or being very present. This is the core mistake of Buddhism. They confuse such things with CONSCIOUSNESS. But those are very narrow aspects of CONSCIOUSNESS.

It's the anymore part that may give people pause. When I first joined the forum, I was lectured about referring to the theory (rather than the reality) of nonduality. Now it is alien consciousness. Stay tuned for the next episode in Leo's amazing adventure! If people want to live by spiritual proxy and see the journey as entertainment that's fine, but nothing will improve the quality of their lives like direct experience. I am not disparaging Leo. Setting aside that he has to support his family, and that a cascade of self-trumping claims serves this purpose, I feel that in his core Leo is sincere. I am only asking people to be sincere themselves, and use that sincerity to dive deeply into the unchartered territory within.

@axiom Fully agree on all points. I should have added some concluding remark from the Absolute side of the street, not everything from the Relative side of the street. >There is noone already, so there is nothing that can be done. There are only appearances arising which may or may not involve what seems to be an individual on some kind of path. Totally agree, but for sake of teaching-efficiacy, the Mahamdura-system throws the stick with which one pokes and blazes the fire only into the fire when the fire is sufficiently burning. In the Mahamudra-System (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown), there is only effort or artifical activity (or a person) involved up until and including the stage 3 of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual). One learns to cut all thought- and emotion-arisings fast enough (Stage 1& 2). When one is proficient enough in that, the visual field starts getting nondual (Stage 3), the separation perceived before drops away, and the visual field gets an appearance-only quality, empty, hologram-style. Then, at stage 4 (Nonmeditation Yoga), this effort or artifical activity (or believing in a person or agent doing these things) gets dismantled, because cutting off the Illusion-thought-arisings has become fast enough and automatic. Together with that, the concept of a doer/person/agent gets pointed out as another concept, and the meditation does itself. Here, the mindstream aligns for the first time with the real state of things, that an understanding can happen there really is no person, just a bundle of I-thoughts/I-feelings arising. And of course, there was no person/individual in the past, only an apparant Gestalt that looked like that, and which one used to overlay ones true being (Infinite Conciousness or Reality itself) with, there isnt one now, and there never can or will be, only as an illusion or overlay on the real nature of things. Ones True Being is able to generate this illusion (magnificienlty), but is not dependend on it. The show can happen without it. But reality can generate this illusion. Basically then one goes full Tony Parsons (there is no person, nothing needs to be done), but only at stage 4 Nonmeditation Yoga and not before. If you do it before, certain qualities are not generated that one needs to conform to the enlightened mind (nonduality, mere-appearance/imagined hologram-like quality of the visual field, infinitesness of the visual field, space not as independend self-existing "thing" but sth. imagined in consciousness which consciousness doesnt need to imagine, time and memory happening in it now, that one cant get out of it because there is no outside, and some other stuff). And when all of that is in place, Basis-Enlightenment or Crossing Over can happen, which Brown describes (among other things): " Seemingly individual consciousness (yid), the point of observation throughout the entire path of meditation, is now found to be a mere concept (btagspa), which drops away. … The seeming reality of individual consciousness along with its functions and activities gives way, leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space " The description of enlightenment as a dropping away of any kind of separate-identity/person/individual arising is universal in all enlightenment descriptions. Don't worry, by definition, the real you can't go away - ever. Only an illusion is seen through and understood. And the real you can generate the separate-self Illusion-show, so nothing really is lost. Whats more fundamental is still there. So It sounds more negative than it is. Leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space: And if you have become so impersonal or universal consciousness (nondual) that you can have that state of huge nonduality/mere appearance of the visual field/infiniteness sobre, well then you have deconstructed your separate self enough. This is the Gate-Keeper of the Gateless Gate. This deconstruction is better said a high-speed-search-task-and-cutting-off of separate self illusion-arisings (I-feelings, I-thoughts, Trekchö-Style), and that is what boosts the nonduality and mere appearance aspect of the visual field, which is exactly what you can also boost with psychedelics, but with much more of the separate-self illusions still staying intact.... Frank Yang called that once the God-Mind-state. >From the other side of the gate, it is said that to see apparent individuals believing that they exist, believing in their own agency... believing they have achieved enlightenment or indeed anything at all - is the sweetest joke going. Fully agree. And if it can happen natty in Nonduality-States, it can even more easily happen with doing only/mainly Psychedelics, because among other things, they exactly boost that Nonduality/mere apperance/infinite state. And if the separate self arisings are not fully seen through, you can get quite a show. And by the way, as Ken Wilber said, people doing both meditation and psychedelics, get the most out of it, so I am not against Psychedelics at all. Somebody made a very nice youtube-Channel on looking deep into the Abyss or Nothingness that precedes Nonduality: Prior to Non-Duality https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g You can have full blow nonduality WITH an enlightened ego/person with an identity still going on, believing to be enlightened. Believing to be Awareness, Presence, God, whatever not. Stage 3 in Mahamudra. Quite a show... Beautiful video on that by Jac O'Keffee: and now, walking from the Relative Side of the Street a bit more towards its Absolute Side: In actuality, there is nobody selling water by the river, and nobody is buying it... And the short form, of all written above is: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Enjoy the ride!

I would like to add that, to be fair, Leo did at one point teach about enlightenment, meditation, and nonduality. Given this, of course his students would be confused and misled. On the other hand, we can’t allow that to be an excuse, as Leo had to also make those mistakes himself. It takes guts to not only point out that the prior teachings are null, but to also take this ship in a different direction by not continuing to entertain the old teachings. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about my observation.

Thats true. Although it can take quite a while without psychedelics. That stage was variously called the One Taste (Yoga of One Taste), Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind, .... But who or what is aware of that? At that stage, there is still some nebulous murky identity arising, watching or being aware of this Nondual Big Self. Even in this Nonduality/Unity, there are the last remnants of the separate self (very subtle, hard to spot, takes some training) still arising. Roger Thisdell has some nice youtube-videos on that: Not Self - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (4/5) In Roger Thisdells System, it is his stage 4, which is beyond his stage 3 Big Mind, which is already Nondual (One Taste/Yoga of One Taste, Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind) with a already much reduced separate self. Stage 3 can have full Nonduality/Unity, with the separate self much more intact than the pretty empty Not-Self of stage 4 (which has just Individuality or a murky Subject-Object left). It is Ken Wilber Empty Witness, Daniel Brown "Individuality", Jac O'Keeffe "Identity", Greg Goode transparent witness vs. opaque witness, Nisargadattas and Stephen Wolinskis Brahman vs. Parabrahman). One can find this stage in every system: Infinite Nonduality/Unity with the remnants of a separate self, some kind of identity or indviduality/separateness. And the last stage in his system, stage 5, Enlightenment: True No Self and No Centre - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (5/5) And then perceiving this boundless infinite field of mere appearance of your Awareness Bubble/reality/infinity, and then dissolving the last arising remnants of any remaining subject arisings perceiving this nondual infinity. These can be very subtle, "no-self"-arisings perceiving infinity, but still some subjectivity/individuality sensation/arisings remaining. But these arisings of any form of subject/individuality can still be seen as objects hovering in the infinite field/Suchness that you are. Don't worry, your True Self will still be there afterwards if these separate-self remnants dissolve. Then one can understand why it is so often said there is nothing beyond this stage. Because it is you, it is Existence itself, see the Ralston Video. To learn these last tricks of the separate self, you need enough time in these states, and the right techniques, (for a suggestion see below, no artifical activity), and then the One Hand Claps. How to do that? I like the Nonmeditation-Yoga in Daniels Browns "Pointing out the Great Way". Learn to automize the meditation (on the pillow and in daily life) of cutting off these separate self arisings, so that no more of what he calls "artifical activity" is necessary, because any effort at that stage done by a doer/separate self arising prevents the realization. It has to become fully automized. Definition of concepts Awakening, Enlightenment and No-Self: I believe we got a lot of different meanings of what we mean by No-Self, and Awakening and Enlightenment. Enlightenment: If Enlightenment is knowing what you are and what existence is, being able to stay in that knowledge in everday life: That has an endpoint: You know what you are and what existence is. And that brings permanent happiness and bliss. Of course you can suffer when you have bodily pain, but psychological suffering is gone. Resting in your True Nature generates bliss by itself. And that is the same as True No-Self, which is the same as True Self, because it is Reality and the core or Buddha-Nature of every being. But here, words loose their meaning, because reality has no opposite. No-Self: The real No-Self is not just giving up the Personality/Ego and going to the Witness (opaque or transparent, which can even be Nondual Kosmic Consciousness/Nature Mysticism style) with something still watching. That something can be mostly empty, just a transparent witness, but it still has the last duality of some kind of individuality. Problem is: This is something one only fully understands when these remnant-arisings of individuality are gone. If there is no separate self having individuality, the universe is watching itself, appearances watching themselves, thoughts are arising in immense vastness as objects, floating through you like the sound of a bird, and the feeling of being something separate is also seen as object in immense vastness. See Roger Thisdell stage 5. Awakening: If one defines Awakening as knowing all the manifestation mechanisms in this or any other dimension, then one perspective/being can be more awake than another. But: Infinity means there are endless dimensions. And a few thoughts on Genetics and Meditation: I believe that using the right meditation techniques at the right stage are essential, more so than genetics. Good techniques change along the path, check for example Pointing Out the Great Way by Daniel Brown. Classic Self-Help-Mindset: I would never let my success and drive be limited by such a limiting belief genetics <-> meditation. Do the the best with the Karma you have. Give it a try! The biggest heros are those who go furthest with the worst genetics/Karma. How do you know if you are limited, if you dont't fully try? Maybe you are not? And of course use Psychedelics on top, why not? If anybody is annoyed by this attempt to Sell water by the River: Please review the perspectives, do your own experiments, and review the outcome. My suggestion would be in judging if any insight is valueable, worthwhile, and higher: Does it bring the understanding of what you are and what reality is, beyond any doubt? Does it bring permanent satisfaction and bliss? And don't worry: Its already what you are, covered by lots of mistaken identities, and it is the only thing you can not loose. The only stuff you can loose are arising appearances, confusions/ignorance of what you think you are. By the way, does anybody read that until the end here?

Love this. I left religion, only to find myself following nonduality. It’s an improvement in certain aspects, but I’m starting to see that even nonduality locks you inside a “box”. Thank you for helping us discover that there are infinite kinds of Awakening to explore. The belief that there’s only one Awakening really kept me stuck and frustrated at myself.

I grant you your Awakeness, but why not mine? How can you take away the certainty that Mystical Experiences and Awakenings give me? How can you take away the Sovereignty that I know? You can't. Nobody can. Because Truth is Absolute. And when you taste Truth, you know Truth. It doesn't matter who tells you that you aren't awake. Am I open to more? Yes. Of course. Why would I not be? But that doesn't mean that the incredibly magical, utterly mind-blowing, and completely paradigm shattering Truths and Mystical States I've encountered aren't that Awakeness too. Thats literally what it is. It's just sad because Leo and this forum have been a MASSIVE aide in reaching those states of consciousness, but they seem to never be "enough" in the eyes of this community. What happened to the pure joy of Pursuing Spirit and higher levels of consciousness for its own sake? When did Actualized.org turn in to a Nonduality War of being right and everyone else being wrong? What happened to all the old vibes of discovering and exploring this uncharted territory as if we were pioneers on the edge of something incredible? Why did we have to reach the end and start fighting about it? I just don't get this statement of saying nobody else here is Awake. I don't see how it's productive or helps the health and consciousness of this forum at all. I consider many people on this forum some of the most Conscious and Awake beings I've ever interacted with, myself included. I feel like there should be more of a focus on community and exploring Consciousness together instead of constantly debating who's more Awake. I feel like there should be more of a focus on Love.

Same thing sorta happened when Leo introduced enlightenment way back in 2015 if I’m not mistaken. It must have caught everybody by surprise. This new stage, if you want to call it that, will be communicated organically I feel. For example, I noticed that he (or a mod) already removed the pinned topics regarding enlightenment exercises and nonduality sometime this week.

Anyone here who claims to be AWAKE, or to understand what AWAKE is, or what GOD is, or what CONSCIOUSNESS is -- is fooling themselves. The only one here who understands these things is ME. This does not mean, however, that I cannot sometimes be full of shit myself. I can. I am not perfect. But not on this issue. Enlightenment is not AWAKE. Buddhism is not AWAKE. Nonduality is not AWAKE. No amount of meditation is AWAKE. There will be a lot of bitching and moaning over this issue. But I simply told you the truth. You've been warned. This is way more tricky than you ever imagined. My function here is to guide people through every trick. But the problem is, they don't want to be guided because they already think they've figured it out. Don't be that guy.

Nice, I noticed that you took down the pinned topics about enlightenment and nonduality from years ago. Thank you for clarifying your stance.

Of course it's possible. That's the point of all this work. I am not saying anything that limits you. It's got nothing to do with narcissim. Just reporting to you the traps of this work. I want you to appreciate how tricky this work is. That's all. I get no joy out of saying these things to you. I wish I didn't have to say them. I have spent months not saying it, hoping I don't have to say it. I spent a lot of time hesitating before saying it because I know how it sounds. But in the end I gotta focus on what is true vs how things sound. If I don't say these things people will get decieved by nonduality, Buddhism, enlightenment, self-inquiry, meditation, etc. The stuff that someone like Rupert Spira teaches is simply not God-Realization. These people have no clue what God is. And you guys are falling into those traps. I am one of the only people on this planet who can point out these advanced traps to you. So if have that ability I must use it. I can't just sit quietly while newbies follow Rupert Spira and his ilk to some weak-sauce version of God. Well, you will not know until you reach the levels of consciousness I am pointing to. It's good you guys are skeptical. That will keep you from just turning this work into dogma. Yup, well, this cannot be resolved through human validation. Again, that's what makes this work so tricky. You see how problematic all this is. And that's my point. There are very big epistemic problems here which nondualists do not take seriously. They just trust that their teachers are AWAKE. You cannot assume that. You cannot assume the Buddha was AWAKE. That is not a given. That is just a story. You've identified the problem exactly. You will never know just by trusting one guru or another. You will only know by unraveling the mystery of Consciousness and God. And of course you cannot trust me either. There is no one on this planet you can trust to tell you the truth. Of course. But what I am supposed to do? I can only go with what I think is most true. From your POV I could be deluded. But I cannot let that stop my work. At some point any teacher you interact with has to draw a line and tell you: "X is true, and I know so absolutely, regardless of whether you think I am deluded." Look at it this way, if I am wrong, at least I made you question every guru and teaching. Which is a good thing. You guys clearly don't do that enough. Hence I wrote: Important!

Yes its is, but accessing self is generally most peoples problem when doing IFS in the first place. Some basic ability to transcend ego is required to even start IFS so it basically assumes you can already do that. The unbending process in IFS is called introspective awareness in meditation. However, to reliably sustain this, requires months of meditation practice. There is also a higher state called 'metacognitive introspective awareness' where you are aware of your entire internal system at once. This makes IFS much more powerful. Some ego loss may occur from unburdening childhood traumas, but full enlightenment can't really be achieved with IFS alone since that would mean transcending the notion of self and parts. I've spoken to people who have done IFS for years and they always tell me that they are never fully healed and that its a lifelong journey. The video I linked in my previous post explains this very well. Just ignore the new age shit at the very end... That being said, doing IFS has made my meditation practice wayyy deeper since there are fewer obstacles on the path. In that sense, they are synergistic and everyone should do both. I think most people on this forum, especially Leo would benefit from IFS. Consequently, most people doing IFS should practice meditation and nonduality.

I think my previous answer lacked nuance so I'll elaborate. The work and IFS are both sides of the same coin, love and light, masculine and feminine. The masculine mode of healing deals with dispelling illusions and transcending the parts with the light of awareness. The feminine mode of healing deals with loving the wounded parts to heal them. The work is fundamentally a masculine principle while IFS is the Feminine principle. However there is a significant asymmetry between IFS and the work. IFS is perhaps the most advanced and nuanced method of the feminine mode of healing. On the contrary, 'the work' is pretty shallow compared to other masculine healing modes such as Buddhism, Taoism, Zen, nonduality, the works of Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts, etc... That is not to say that it isn't useful. It seems like a really useful tool for the masculine approach. Just not the only tool. I actually realised I was doing 'The work' automatically after practicing meditation and mindfulness. In my personal experience, I have experienced more inner transformation and long term healing after a few months of IFS than 3 years of masculine healing. Interestingly, 'the work' became much easier after this healing and I found myself easily letting go of limiting beliefs. Both are true because the mind is a system of parts yet the ego is an illusion. Once you transcend the idea that you are a limited separate self, all suffering will cease because there is no one to suffer. However, complete ego transcendence is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for most people. An ego is also pretty much required to function in society, so unless you want to become a monk and live in a cave for the rest of your life, ego transcendence is not really a viable option for healing trauma. IFS is extremely effective for healing but It doesn't really transcend the ego. The masculine and feminine modes are healing are synergistic and people should do both.

It helps make the guru's job very easy. These nondualist teachers are lazy. They don't want to bother doing any serious intellectual labor. So they just dismiss it as unimportant. And thus they deceive themselves and their students. Nonduality is not God-Realization. It is a gross kinda of reductionism and anti-intellectualism.

@Yimpa Nonduality may not be what you think it is, but that is ok. It sounds like traditional self-help might bring more satisfaction.

1) Consciousness affects matter (I'm curious what someone like Sean Carrol would say about these studies) 2) LSD and Magic mushrooms have been shown to reduce brain activity (contrary to what materialism would assume) https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2016/04/the-lsd-study-youre-being-subtly.html https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/08/magic-mushrooms-and-brain-activity.html 3) Instead of weakening, the brain is more active than ever during anesthesia (again contrary to what materialism would assume) https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/what-really-happens-brain-during-anesthesia-truly-terrifying.html/ 4) A new paper argues the condition now known as “dissociative identity disorder” might help us understand the fundamental nature of reality https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/could-multiple-personality-disorder-explain-life-the-universe-and-everything/