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Happiness is enjoyment of the content of existence. Bliss is enjoyment of existence itself despite the content.

There was an interesting exchange between Garuda and Leo in another thread about potency and contrast between guru path and psychedelic path. But they both seemed kinda rigid on their own understanding (oh the almighty paradigm lock!). For Leo, 5 meo or DPT is the ultimate guru and no other thing, people, books, energy is even close to it. Lets see if we can present a logical overview of it. Ultimately, there is but only one guru or god, and that is one's own Self. And enlightenment ONLY dawns upon by the grace of that Guru or Self. Whether its Being through meditation/self-inquiry/yoga or it is nonverbal, nondual therapy through 5 meo(as martin ball often calls it), enlightenment only dawns upon through that direct transmission of grace or satsang from that supreme Guru/God alone. No other action, object, knowledge, a chain of cause can facilitate liberation. No entity with its own effort gets there. But alas! Due to our shortsightedness we always tend to impose reality on the unreal. Love is result of happiness. Wherever there is happiness, love follows. Our Self is Bliss itself and thats why our most loved thing is our own selves, of course in a deluded way. Through any activity, relationship, substance or mind states that we seem to gain happiness, it is not the 'thing' that is the source of happiness. Rather, those things temporarily deactivate our delusion/ignorance and thus we get brief respite of our Self(the only source of happiness), depending on the potency of those things. 5 meo did it for Leo. It takes him to his real Self, the spring of happiness. Thats why for him, 5 meo is more lovable than his wealth or house. Compared to 5 meo, the potency of all other things in his life is peanuts. I am not personally targeting Leo but only trying to make a point. Similarly, those who get enlightened by an external guru(seemingly), that guru becomes the most loved thing in their life. But in both cases, reality is superimposed over the unreal. Both 5 meo and the flesh guru are but only vehicles. The only real Guru is one's Self. These vehicles merely open oneself to the grace of the Self. Money, sex, activities, acquisition, substances, books, knowledge, relationships etc are all vehicles but with tremendous variation in potency. "As a man is, so he sees" If one sees oneself as a form, everything else including the universe will appear to be objective, physical matter just like him. If one is Self, all is Self. As long as one regards oneself as a form, one needs to rely on another potent form to take him beyond. Because one is still not liberated, an external guru or a substance or a practice is necessary. But for 'someone' Self-established like Ramana Maharshi all these vehicles are same, or there is no vehicle but only the Self. To illustrate this point, when people tried to figure out how Ramana got enlightened; that narrative that Ramana is a person who one day somehow got enlightened; Maharshi played along that narrative and always told that it is the holy mountain Arunachala which was his guru and all the goodies came from the grace of this mountain. But because we see ourselves as bodies, we see Ramana as a body as well. But Ramana Maharshi is verily the Self and his own body is last thing he would ever consider as him. For Ramana the supreme Self; a box of gold or 5 meo or a catpoop are all the same Self. So ultimately a deity/external guru/lineage/activity/spiritual practices/knowledge/substances whatever it is, is absolutely crucial as long as we regard ourselves as a body and form. The potency of these things will vary depending on one's traits and tendencies. But unfortunately we lose the big picture and end up imposing supremacy over these insentient objects. I mean we confused fellas, not the Self. Now comes the topic of potency. A 5 meo trip changes one knowingly or unknowingly, one is never the same afterwards. Same thing with a legit guru! A self realized guru is a living embodiment of the Self. Just by living close to them without even any verbal exchange, people tend to change from inside out. I'd make a humble request to @Leo Gura to not make contradictory, unfruitful statements. He is a public figure and lots of people significantly shape their worldviews through him. When Leo argues and makes statements along the line of "I have reached the highest realizations in all of mankind, 5 meo is the only highest deal and the rest is bullshit, 40 years zen master is a fool compared to my insights" this isn't helping anyone's growth but only creating more pernicious confusions and contradictions. First of all, its impossible to know which sage knew what. And more importantly when Leo tries to articulate his highest insights, even he is at a loss of appropriate words and often remarks "there is no way to express this stuff in any way, it goes that deep". Almost all of his audience are modern, highly educated and openminded folks and yet all of that psychedelic insights fall on mostly deaf ears. It only truly makes sense if one is at Leo's being level simultaneously. Now imagine where the sages of the past were. Surrounded by stage purple and blue people with extremely narrow knowledge graph, you expect the real sages to spill ALL THE BEANS as the highest Absolute Truth? When its impossible to logically, coherrently talk about it in the first place? And YET, they left the clues as best as it could be done. The sages didn't leave the clues to proclaim them as the highest beings on earth and disparaging the rest as deluded pigs. They left them only for the best interest of the seekers as the great spiritual teachers they were. As you see/present yourself as a spiritual teacher, thats my 2 cents right there. Peace out ?

Egyptian mythology Often in Egyptian writing and art, myths occur— particularly in short stories and in religious materials such as ritual texts, hymns, funerary texts and temple decorations. Full accounts of the myth from these sources are rare as they are habitually described in brief fragments. According to the historian Bunsen: “Heh, called Huh in some eras, was one of the original gods of the Ogdoad [the eight deities worshipped during the Old Kingdom, 2575-2134 BCE] at Hermopolis and represented eternity – the goal and destiny of all human life in Egyptian religious beliefs, a stage of existence in which mortals could attain everlasting bliss .” The existence of someone on this earth was a part of the eternal journey; it was also an introduction to something bigger. The concept of the afterlife for Egyptians was a mirror-world of one’s life on earth — particularly, one’s life in Egypt. If one desired to enjoy the rest of his/her eternal journey, he was obliged to live that life correctly. The Creation of the World The creation of the universe and the world out of whirling chaos and obscurity was where the journey commenced. There was once nothing but infinite dark water, devoid of form or purpose. From this bedlam surfaced Ben-Ben (the primeval hill); atop of this hill lived Atum (sometimes, Ptah). Atum observed the emptiness and realized his loneliness. He bred with his shadow to produce two offspring: Tefnut (goddess of moisture, whom Atum vomited out) and Shu (god of air, whom Atum spat out). The principles of order were issued by Tefnut and the principles of life were given by Shu. After they were born, the siblings set out to create the world, leaving their father on the Ben-Ben. After a while, Atum was overwhelmed by anxiety as his children took a long time to return. He took out his one eye and sent it to look for them. Much to his relief, Shu and Tefnut returned after some time with his one eye; Atum, grateful for his children’s return, shed tears of happiness. His tears rained atop the dark and fertile soil of Ben-Ben, thereby producing women and men. The sun rises over the circular mound of creation as goddesses pour out the primeval waters around it (1075–945 BC) These early beings had no place to dwell, however. Tefnut and Shu, thus, mated and bore the goddess Nut (the Sky) and the god Geb (the earth). The siblings, Geb and Nut, became lovers, inseparable from one another. Unable to accept their unacceptable behavior, Atum took Nut into the heavens, far away from Geb. Both lovers had clear views of one another; however, they were unable to touch. Already impregnated by Geb, Nut gave birth to Set, Osiris, Isis and Nephthys— the prominent Egyptian gods. Osiris was often considered a sensible and thoughtful god which was probably why Atum gave him rule over the world. Sources Enjoyable tales and solemn hymns constitute the sources of Egyptian mythology. Illiteracy amongst Egyptians of the time was prevalent, so it was mostly the tradition of storytelling that spread the myths. It is suggested by some that this tradition of storytelling explains why little detail of the myths exist—every Egyptian knew about the myths. Evidence showing the survival of this oral tradition is precious little and it is pictorial and written sources that furnish the modern knowledge of Egyptian myths. Only few of these sources managed to survive to current times as many of the writings have been lost.

Tears come from the intensity of energies, There can be a sense of bliss, or misery or no emotional interpretation in your case.

@DrewNows The funniest thing is I completely left the body, but I go plucked back down , but it's okay because bliss body

@Shadowraix Psychedelics are good medicine, they just need to be used correctly and not for more than a few times, along with teaching and rewiring your body to create it's own joy and bliss in the process of yoga, breathwork, mindfulness etc. If someone becomes addicted or reliant on a drug then the spiritual path is not for them because it shows their dependency. If there are people that want to find safer psychedelics then that's a research field in itself, and it should be treated as such.

@Ninie No more pot! Learn about your bliss body also, I feel it will help you. https://youtu.be/sQminvzRA1I

@d0ornokey fine , yes I do because I hate ALL paradigms without understanding their conceptual importance first. The only one I agree with is humans are instinctive animals working off intuition. To be honest I’m not even in beige comfortably yet. My instincts to not get caught in a trap for “survival of myself” is a beige concept and therefore the only way to let it go was to realise you can’t encapsulate reality into any ideology. Thus opening the doors to move up the spiral Hence I do not like turquoise because it doesn’t work off using imagination instinctively. They’re not instinctively god. They’re passive gods. Hence the development of coral imo. Passive gods walking with the bliss. GOOD gods Who are about love and not about destruction. They don’t want to kill some bees but let it go into the wild when it’s in your home. Although this may be my lack of development to understanding the full ramifications of reality. But it will happen eventually- someone may open up a 5-meo drug cartel.

@Preetom someone who is aware of oneness but doesn’t have the added benefits of enlightenment. Non dual awareness , infinite creativity, pure joy in being, bliss, peace etc .. lol but your concepts become your reality! Because even if you don’t identify with them. They are still entrenched in your life. An enlightened being who is blind, is blind. Literally here’s the only thing you need to understand “infinity” this is the only concept in your life which should have the highest priority. you can create joy, love, peace! And why would you not! Hence it’s not about right vs wrong. It’s always about pros vs cons. You shouldn’t sucker people into enlightenment because it alleviates their pain and say for this reason it is the right thing and everyone should be enlightened or everyone should seek enlightenment for this reason. NO. This is not true enlightenment is. But ofcourse you have to put candy out for the baby to eat, or else it will seek something else in the kitchen. So enlightenment is a win/ win situation and hence it’s so popular with us

And maybe they are, what if bliss and Joy and peace is something Very natural you as human should feel most of the time. Why do you beleive God creates misery?

That's a very crucial question. It arises from misunderstanding what Maharshi means by Self or Consciousness. The thing we call consciousness, the consciousness that operates in our waking and dream states and knows objects and experiences is NOT the Self or Real Consciousness. Because we are used to associate consciousness ONLY when we are knowing things, we feel we have lost Consciousness in deep sleep where no things are known. What Maharshi refers to as Self or Real Consciousness is that which doesn't know anything other than itself. It's nondual, whole, solitary Being Consciousness. You are infact experiencing Self in deep sleep, but this ''Self-experience'' is hidden by darkness of ignorance or the bliss sheath. When your dual or object knowing consciousness arises immediately upon waking up and look back at the deep sleep experience, it misinterprets that sleep experience as unconsciousness or void because it itself was absent that 'time'. So the instruction is to self-inquire and realize Self in midst of waking state and penetrating all the mental sheaths. You can't do that during deep sleep. And the meaning of ''Deep sleep is true nature of Awareness'' is that deep sleep is the only state that resembles Real Awareness at it's best. Because in deep sleep there is no subject-object experience duality, exactly like the realization of the Self. That's why Ramana said after self-realization waking, dreaming, sleeping all will vanish and only the ''conscious sleep'' will remain. 'Sleep' means there will not be any subject-object duality. And 'conscious' means you won't be taken over by the darkness of ignorance or the illusion of unconsciousness ever again This is the limit of the metaphor. The eye cant see itself, the tongue cant taste itself, the knife cant cut itself etc are all helpful metaphors for vedantic discrimination and appreciating the reality and supremacy of Brahman. But these metaphors collapse when the realization is done. Consciousness is not insentient like eye, tongue, knife; so the metaphor collapses. And isness, suchness, nothingness, void etc are all subtle teaching pointers. They are not experiences as we know them. Awareness aware of itself- it's not an experience. It can't be described in any way. It's the only thing thats going on and we can realize that for ourselves. After we realize, we'll know exactly what it means and won't need to listen to any description about it.

@Preetom the reAson you are not understanding is because you are using language to fight your case bro. Bhraman does not exist or exist. Bhraman is simply a term for that which is. And what is.... can’t be put into a perspective, vendanta alike. Hence winter soldier is not actually enlightened. He’s basically experiencing imaginary bliss and peace, likewise all other enlightened beings. all there is is consciousness. Put simply just don’t try to define it and you’ll come closer than you ever have to the absolute than an enlightened being. What this means is the following: repeat after me: anything I believe to be true... it’s not true.. but because I imagined it myself... it is true. Likewise what I am doing now. What you don’t get about Leo is Leo is imagining god into existence. Meaning it will happen. And therefore Leo’s experience is real. Compare the realness of which is higher. Is not possible, because that’s creating distinctions! But relatively speaking, his imagination of god is more accurate than enlightenenment. MEANING it more accurately represents non duality than the current framework for non duality itself I.e enlightenment.

@Consilience I defiantly smoked more than I should. It just completely blindsided me, all that bliss came crashing down and all of sudden I was having this dark experience.

Trip # 9 , smoked. 14 mgs freebase Insights: > What is. That was the first english words that came to mind after breaking through to non duality. Even in afterglow, I could close my eyes and connect to the source of it all. As everything is imagined. But holy smokes. Each trip DOES build on the last. Just when you think you've gone beyond infinity, you go farther. It is complete freedom. Complete bliss. Beforehand: Lots of fear at even the thought of plugging MEO. Decided I would smoke it again, and fear was still there. Decided to smoke it and face my fear anyways. Brushed my teeth. Showered. Wanted to "be clean" entering gods house. Also last week I bought a $620 laboratory scale on Kijiji (similar site to Craigslist up here in Canada) for $200. Quite the fine investment knowing my dose (and all future doses of whatever substance) is/will be accurate. Meditated before hand and contemplated love. It's day 113 of mediation. (The number 13 and 24 are significant to me) 13 = 6+7 (devil + god) and 24 is a cycle. So the "numbers" lined up. Even tho non of it matters, as per usual Right before the hoot (sandwiched in mullein leaves) contemplated love some more and repeated "whatever happens will happen, I surrender, show me what I need to see"

@StarStruck A lot of seekers become attached to bliss, not realising that isn't the highest stage.

I would like to start this by saying I find everything Leo has done to be very helpful, mind bending, and in many ways healing. I meditated for 2 years before watching any of his videos, and after i discovered them it took my meditations to a whole new level, i became a much happier person, it was like i found exactly what i needed and was so inspired and motivated to do this work. Currently i am spending a month alone to get into the feeling of being and cut out distractions, and it has been tough....there has surfaced just this general angst and anxiety that isn't going away. I am beginning to fear and actually get pist off at the idea of enlightenment. What if it is delusion? What if it is the ultimate illusion and the real reality is that we are individuals who are going to just die and that's it? Why does that feel so much more real? Most of the posts i see about enlightenment are so fucking lofty, mysterious, and even have a hint of darkness in them. I don't get it, i thought that was the ultimate goal , how is it that you get there, and there is still so much to do? In one of Leos videos he talks about people chasing "happiness" like hamsters in a wheel, and the cheese is an illusion. Well how is this much different, it's just chasing spiritual highs and realizations in place of dopamine highs. I am 100% sure i sound pretty unconscious or ignorant but i was doing great before enlightenment came into the picture. I don't get why i can't just be happy with self-love and awareness. Questioning my ego, and telling it (myself) I need to die all the time and i'm a devil, especially while doing this work completely alone, i feel is threatening my sanity and peace of mind, i feel some people just are not ready to do that yet, it has to be worked up to. Anyway, just felt like getting that out, i know frustration is typical on this path but sometimes i see people living unconsciously and they seem pretty happy at times. Today i walked past these dudes just drinking beer and laughing on the beach and they seemed so carefree, i got a bit jealous, it's like ignorance is bliss. I'm here meditating hours a day, reading, watching videos, cutting out bad habits and YES i have had amazing moments of peace and joy, and i am not discarding those. But it seems to always come down and i'm back to the angst , anxiety , pain

@ivankiss i dont think i went much down the rabbit hole. the idea of enlightenment was so appealing to me, along with the use of psychedelics as aid. the thought alone was motivating for me to pursue that "state". i used to read breakthrough trip reports on this website and my mind would be filled with love and excitement to experience all of "nothingness", "oneness", the absolute, the god etc for myself. but everything was conceptual, everything was a fantasy because i had no idea what nothingness really meant. i never thought the road can be horrifying. i knew it was hard but i thought the achievement would be love and bliss instead of terror. so i tried mushrooms, and i took too much of it. and i was sent to a place that my body and mind was not ready for. i felt like stuck in thoughts the whole trip. my mind was racing to different places and theres an awareness that was FREAKING OUT. i panicked and panicked and ended up in an ambulance . it was so twisted i hardly got anything out of it. was just so glad it was over. that was back in april. life then went on and i got no lingering effects from that trip whatsoever, until this : https://www.actualized.org/insights/total-omniscience-awakening that video hit me hard. because the mushroom opened my mind and made me experience what reaching enlightenment could feel and how horrifying that could be for my ego. so my body and mind start to panic. it was scary but almost addicting for have that sense of fear. once the fear subsides, i look a bit forward to the next one because i can sense a bigger force behind the fear, i can feel that breaking the fear will open more doors for me, but as the fear runs through me, i am never able to let myself go and lean in to it because i dont want to find out that this is all imagination. yet i do want to find out. maybe this is just another story i tell myself. maybe i have NO IDEA still what it feels like , and i just freak myself out because my ego doesnt want to experience the bad trip again. thank you for your reply! it was very helpful

@Dylan Page From unimagable bliss and joy which You can feel for Yourself by existence as biological creature.

Okay I'll try to explain this dilemma with 2 classic examples. See if it makes sense. The duality of nothing-everything is already a concession. "All is Brahman" is a similar statement to "Michael's dream at last night is nothing but his mind". But take a look at your mind. Is last night's dream exclusively your mind? No. Because your same mind can produce infinite amount of other dream worlds. And ultimately that one dream really has no existence at all other than in your mind. It only feels real as long as it is perceived. This is the paradigm lock of all knowledge and perception. It feels real only when it is happening now. Have you noticed that whatever happening right now feels most real? But where is this sense of reality coming from? This sense of reality is not actually coming from things. These current same thoughts and forms will lose significance and reality when you forget about them. If you are not seeing the sun, then the reality of sun is very dim for you now. So no 'thing' exclusively has reality. That sense of reality actually comes from you the Brahman. Vedanta scrupulously maintains this discriminating view so that no form can ever exclusively claim ownership of absolute reality. Why not saying that both all and brahman are real? No they are not both real. To illustrate this there is the example of clay and clay pots. A clay pot is in and through nothing but clay. Clay can exist without clay pot but clay pot cant exist without clay. So its 'potness' is really only a self fulfilling unreal superimposition. Now if you strictly say "the clay pot is clay" that will be a true statement just like the statement "all is brahman". But you see it already concedes this pot as something real and distinct and then made connection with clay. Whereas in reality the clay remains same whether its a pot or not (in the context of this metaphor). The very idea of pot, world, all is already a concession and in that case they are really nothing but products of Brahman These are all teaching pointers and further discussion actually only breaks down language and the teaching without any outcome. So as Anna has pointed out the 'all' is like a mere shadow product of Brahman. In the same way even concepts like existence, consciousness, bliss etc are nothing but superimposed definitions on Brahman. They are helpful teaching pointers but there is nothing one can exclusively grasp and ascribe it as Brahman. This is illuminated in a Bhagavad gita verse where Krishna tells Arjuna "the entire universe is sustained with merely a fraction of my being" Similarly all real things in universe, all potentials and all 'unreal' things are nothing but Brahman. But Brahman is not exclusively any of them.

FAMILY per instance, it's real hard for me sometimes to talk with them, there is too much false expectations of who they think I am, and I can't play that game, with family, I can only stand interactions about general things and never about me, if its particularly about me it will end in discussion and anxiety. So per instance, I never talk to them about my pesonal life (if I am dating someone etc.) And they act like I am cold or that I don't care about them. I just really want to avoid ego fights, their worldview is completely different than mine, we will never understand each other (from the ego perspective). And I have no interest about trying to be underatood either, I am the manifest, why should I care. I am in peace about this, I don't want to feel bad just because I avoid getting to personal with my own family, I just want peace above all. With other people is almost the same story, but less personal, so there is less danger of ego fights, but I can't stand to be with them for too long if they are not sharing my worldviews. Leo talked about this I know. Worldview is very important to me, I can't stand anything that could compromisse that. I even get absurdly anxious if I see the TV on the newachannel in my family house, I just close my hears and go far away for the silence. I feel threat of being brainwashed. No tv news, no bad news, no dealing with people that make you feel different from your worldviews, none of that. Solitude is bliss. But don't get me wrong. I enjoy being with people, as long I feel my worldviews are not judged, I am ok. The problem thoug is that I feel this threat even when there is no threat. Like I said before: TV news, bad youtube channels, praising celebritys, earing people eating (misophonia) , and a few other things, make me feel a ton of anxiety. After watching leo's episode on survival, I know that this is all me protecting me from something, It's my worldview. So the question is, how do you deal with others and the mainstream world in order to keep yourself sane from all the lies and self deception around you?

I have done a few eyes closed and a few eyes open on 30mg. For me, they are just different. Some on Shavasana, some sited. One I did completely eyes closed in the middle of the night and on top of that I put the mindfold mask, at the end of this trip I felt like the rotation of planets or something around my face and a few other sensations. Once I plan to do on Shavasana ON EYES OPEN but I gave in to the sensation of needing to poop and went to the bathroom and I went infinite in the toilet and after the peak I went to the shower and was "vomiting"( nothing physical) for some time and after that I was 100% on the bliss body that Sadhguru speaks on this video. That state of bliss body is absolutely incredible. I have attained it 2 or 3 times. I will keep doing them with eyes open because I feel them a lot more profound.

From the perspective of the ego, it is frightening, but is not that what it was created for? If You would know that there exists unimaginable bliss and joy, where would You go?

@Jkris It's a process. One Awakening will not rid you of addictions, but as I mentioned, you have to die to Awaken - and you will come back a different form - but the differences may be slight. The more Awakenings One has the more the form is altered. Therapy and things of that nature are within duality - it can work within its context - but it cannot compare to God realization. In the end with therapy you are just talking to yourself and ultimately you must fix your own problems. Any who dispute this have not awakened. With ego transcendence you can lose the fear of death. It is possible. It is also possible to view the fear of death, while you still have it, as healthy - because you are conscious that death is Bliss - and also conscious that you as the ego still fear it.

@Inliytened1 Yes! I know what you are talking about. Have had that nondual bliss on DMT. Everything was me and I was nothing. There was no end. hehe. I think i got it. Nondual state is always present, only i am unconscious of it. But the paradox is still.. Gotta get back to practices till this gets clear.

No, it is not. It is no-thing, but it is not dry and could not be described as 'blank' or 'empty' -- at least not in the sense I think you're trying to use it. It is really indescribable, but if you had to describe it would best be described as satchitananda (being-awareness-bliss... though none of these words are used in exactly the same way in a dualistic sense as in a nondual sense), as you well know... or 'suchness' or, and I love this description -- it is "brahma rasa" -- it is the taste of "brahma," meaning that it is the line of aesthetic or artistic bliss at all times, that is, a bliss that is compatible with all experiences, that runs through them, that is them. Shunya means different things. For example, it refers to the emptiness of all phenomena. But in its deepest sense, yes, shunya is the same thing -- because shunya is really not absolute nothing -- it is the Ground or Buddha nature. It is said to have three qualities. In Dzogchen (I'm not an expert on Buddhism or Dzogchen), the Ground is said to have the following qualities -ngo bo, "essence", oneness or emptiness -rang bzhin, "nature", luminosity, lucidity or clarity -thugs rje, "power", universal compassionate energy It's almost an exact match for sat-chit-ananda.