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@tsuki I get the message, you prefer playing with yourself. It seems to be a common condition around here. Leo thinks psychedelics and personal autonomy is the magic that results in awakening to Love. Winterknight thinks that therapy will result in awakening to Nothingness.

This attitude is overly-simplistic, overly-reductionistic, & misses a giant swath of the spiritual terrain. To teach spirituality and not teach the metaphysical nature of Love is incorrect not only from the standpoint of doing your students a disservice, but also from the standpoint of Truth itself. By shutting off your mind through self-inquiry, you've disconnected yourself from the very source and purpose of existence and awakening: LOVE. Love is not an emotion or feeling. Love is identical to Truth. This is the danger of Neo-Advaita and Neo-Buddhism as commonly taught in the West today. The nuances and depth of awakening is lost, reduced to a binary flatland. I have interacted with many enlightened masters. I was once told of the following case: A modern day Buddhist came to an enlightenment self-inquiry intensive, inquirying into the question of What am I? After a few days of intense inquiry he had an awakening to Absolute Love. But he immediately rejected the awakening as inauthentic because his Buddhist dogma led them to believe that Love is not a real thing. He was trapped in looking for Nothingness. This is a mistake. The Love is right there, yet you deny it. We are not really in disagreement here. There are just aspects of the Absolute you have not yet become conscious of because you've over-reduced it. I understand that some of you guys will disagree with me. But I can only lead you as best as I know how. Whether you want to follow is up to you. Nothing said here should be taken as dogma. Discover the many facets of the Absolute for yourself. Directly! Through no human source. P.S. I have no problem with you guys doing psychoanalysis. My only point was that psychedelics will take you deeper than any talk-therapy will. But of course you're welcome to use them both. I support the use of multiple tools.

That really is the most profound question anyone can ask. The problem is nothingness is a man-made concept, because nothingness has never existed.

Wow. Just had this insight after my kriya yoga meditation. I needed to write this down. It feels like I have seen through the physicality of reality. I had to draw it out on a piece of paper. I felt like I was this lucid bubble, inside the bubble are a set of sights, sounds, feeling, sensations, thoughts that float around in nothingness. My bubble fuses with other bubbles that contain a set of different sensations. What the fuck is going on hahaha. These sensations are located precisely nowhere! How am I creating this? Consciousness is the container of experience but how is it actually creating it?

A realisation that struct me today. More deeply than just the thought of it. It was an experiential realisation. Here is how it unfolded. Death is conceptualised as the ending of “some-thing”, that thing being human life. When in fear of death it invariably equates to fearing “no-thing-ness” which is synonymous with emptiness. All fear essentially leads to fear of emptiness, nothingness or death. It must, as it is great depth of all fear. The thing one cherished or only knows then vanishing, is the immutable fear. The unknown is feared as it entails stepping into something inconceivable and comprehensible to present experience. The very fact death entails not knowing is the fundamental fear itself. The fabrication of our everyday life is the utilitythrough which we use to distract ourselves from the inevitability of death. This is my most recent realisation that has really had me deeply look at how our decisions are structured and how we interact with life. It seems to me, our relationship with this fear determines the fundamental quality of ones life. Contemplating death had been a regular exercise of mine and this realisation has just urged it that little further. Hope this provides some value to others!

I did the same. Try to draw a million point on a paper. Circle 1000 of them. Imagine no one have a clue about reality and 1000 of them like to spread all days their best 'scientific view of life' of course none of them base his knowledge on anything but 'absolute truth' not a perspective created by their life upbringing. You is a point. Your brain focus on the basic beliefs as lenses on some of these points. Each random point formes your 'unbiased' worldview. When we say science is shit. It is not an idea. It is pure solid absolute understanding of 'truth of life'. We all come from the same exact path than you. Eating billions of knowledges will not makes you truthful it only makes you another telling point on an Infinite Map of possibility. There is no way to prove something unless experienced with your soul and body deep in the bones. You know things with head. But reality is not a collection of cloud-model. Readings 1000000 science paper doesn't make any points. It only prove a story' a fantasy in the head of one. Sure there is truth in science. But does it work on Logic or faith. Everything is pure faith- Logic is a belief. Not a godly rule. An illusion of sense in a chaos of nothingness. Absolutely everything is a cloud. When we told that the experience of a 'me knowing things' is a delusion. It is realised just as hard as looking the fire in the sky burn the retina. This is a self belief about what the nothing is. Do you think that Reading quora 100 years would makes your opinion stronger than everybody ?

Its the place where boundaries between literal and metaphorical dissolve. That's how it seems to me. You can see the layers and layers of truth, layered on top of nothingness. Hindus also get way to literal and open it with a chisel and hammer. That is also interesting. IDK if it works.

@Leo Gura When you enter non duality and let’s say the conscious defilements are removed. There remains many, many parts of you that refuse to buy into your seeing. That are self involved. Many control mechanisms, tendencies and vasanas remain. This causes a high degree of cognitive dissonance in the newly awakened person. Which can be solved by clinging onto one’s seeing and refusing to acknowledge one’s cognitive dissonance. Merely dismissing it as mind and “remaining as you are”. Which stunts further growth and does not allow for further development or you acknowledge the cognitive dissonance and the underlying issues that cause it. By doing so the first step towards embodiment begins. To simplify what I said. A being who is main aim is survival. Once he sees the dimension of nothingness and that dimension becomes a part of his experience can alleviate his survival issues merely through that seeing. By claiming I am everything. I am eternal. In a rather dishonest fashion or Going against his cravings and the easy way out he can acknowledge that which is hard to look at. That the seeing is one component. A very muddied one due to layers and layers of tension fighting it for lack of a better term.

I only had one experience of when I had a glimpse of God, it was when I took 30mg of 4aco-dmt(not sure maybe there was much more). I was dying in 10000 ways, I was trying to grasp something that I thought was me, until everything went away. It was lasting for 2 hours, but in my head I was there for eternity, my life flashed before my eyes again and again, random pictures were piercing my mind every second tons and tons of pictures in just a few seconds, I was trying with my whole might to return back to life, vomiting, crying, screaming. When I opened my eyes it was the same as when I close my eyes. I wasn't aware that all that nothingness that I was trying to get away from was me, I was everything, but it was so hard to accept that I died, and another eternity passed, until I heard a song that my friend played on the speaker, what is love by haddaway. And after several eternities I finally was like, I can't resist anymore, I just let go for the first time in my life I truly let go of something and that nothingness in which I was started to become a white light and I could feel that I was never that little me, I was everything all this time for eternity. I was getting back to seeing again with my eyes, I was in a room with no light, but when I first entered the room it was a bright day, and I was lying under the bed, I don't know how I got there. And I left the little shack in which I was for 2.5 hours. I was thinking this it, I'm going to afterlife, heaven. But I had no physical body, no limits, I was everything. And when I entered the house in which 10 of my friends who I know 15 years, were all sitting around being weird because of psychedelics. I was for sure that this is the afterlife, I hugged everyone, even though in the eyes of some I could see fear that controls their life, all I saw was beauty and love masked as fear. Everything was love, everything. I called my mom said I love her. I understood everything that can be understood, it was love, absolute.For the next two days I was enlightened, First time I felt peace of mind. That was two years ago, that was the worst and the best experience of my liffe.

I am curious to know this, i had one experience with 5 Meo Dmt but it was very frightening even if it in the longterm definitely stilled my mind. Buy I am eager to finish this but in a much more gentle way. Just wanted to know if peyote and ayahuasca lead to the same realization of oneness and nothingness or if they lead to more illusions, maybe in combination with food fasting and meditation. What I an concerned of is people say after a 5 Meo experience every other tool or medicine will lead you to that same experience. So me having had the experience of losing my mind, could another psychedelic just lead me to that Bardo state again or will it be alright

Leo doesn't recommend dissociatives due to safety reasons but he has confirmed it can be used for this work too. I was a big experimenter of dxm doing 1g doses at times. 3rd and 4th plateau doses can directly make you realize God. It helps you see through the veil that is form into the formless. It's habit forming though so proceed with caution with this substance but I think it has incredible spiritual potential. My awakening happened with 300mg dxm and 500ug lsd in which I was shown and understood consciousness and nothingness. I could see the universe arising from the formless. It was beautiful. Mind shattering. This was before I even knew of Leo and I was saying many of the stuff he said. Dxm is the vast infinite formless sea, while the lsd navigates the formed sail. Form and formless of both substances harmonizing to show the grand paradox.

Yes sure, but what will exactly happen the day your human story ends, even if it is not called death, but your story will end anyway, and what then? Nothingness, pure love, bardos with imageries that lead to another story based on the consciousnesslevel?

Mind and reality are the same thing, yet is infinite but neither exist. Nothingness, Absolute Truth, The Self, Godhead, Emptiness, etc. is infinite. Leo is not the only one saying this. Every esoteric tradition and enlightened person says the same thing. Maybe slightly different language but it’s essence is the same. This is no something Leo is just telling you.

The mind is infinite, not being. Being has no quality. The reason why the ‘whom’ question is so effective, is because it takes the mind with it. What you’re left with is nothingness.

When I first heard Leo say this, it did frighten me. This is especially the case since I deal with anxiety and depression. Ultimately, this is nothing to be concerned or confused about, and here’s why. All my life I’ve been searching for a feeling of belonging and approval. All those times have failed, because I was not being my true self. I created an ego that always felt incomplete, always needed a sense of security from “others”, always had to please them (and my ego at the same time ). I had to constantly search for that feeling of completeness from the external world. The more I couldn’t find that, the more my life went downhill. It’s impossible for the ego to ever be fully satisfied. It needs a feeling of separation and a neediness to be in control of what’s happening for it to thrive. The ego works in very sneaky ways; it’s a trickster and will confuse you far more than the statement of “you are alone in the universe”. What changed my life, so to speak, is having a few glimpses of being “alone”. That’s when I realized that what I’ve been searching for was here all along. To fully understand what Leo means by “you are alone in the universe”, you must surrender to the Truth (which is You!). Not some of your ego, not 99.999% of it, but the entire damn thing! There’s no mental answer that will satisfy this question. All questions about “you are alone in the universe” will drop into nothingness. Until then, keep on searching until you are complete and there’s no doubt that you are alone in the universe. Being alone is actually freedom, not confinement. (Btw I’m not saying that I’m enlightened at all, but it is certainly possible to get a glimpse of what he’s talking about. This on its own will motivate and inspire you.)

Rumi talks about the universal soul, about emptiness nothingness and the final reunion of the soul with its true nature which is pure love. He talks about how we were cut off from our real home just out of love for god, and gods desire to explore away of home, and that we intoxicated by his love, were so passive that we accepted the journey. The quran talks about one god that is forbidden to make a picture of, one prophet that is also forbidden to make a picture of, and thisprophet had more than 20-30 wives, even though in the quran men are "only" allowed to have 4 and women only 1. Furthermore there is alot of talk about war in the quran, about killing infidels, jews and taking their wives and so on. Islam came from the arabian peninsula and Rumi was an Iranian or Persian that at his time had almost 600 years of forced islamic rule imposed by the arab invaders. So even if Rumi is identified with Islam, at that time exactly like this time the people of Iran had no other choice than adhering to the imposed religion. And surely did Rumi not see god as anything separate from him, that is stated in the quran. The quran has a lot of laws and rules which are different from Women to Men and finally if you dont follow the book to the letter you may end up burning in hell for eternity. This is not what Rumi describes in his poems. So even if he was an Islamic mystic he surely had his own visions, and I remember he called Theologans even Hypocrites. I don't want to offend any religion, I am just stating the facts here :)))

@ardacigin I realized nothingness and just sat there and suddenly i realized that i was not looking at my feat and that i never existed. I realized no-self. I had a big panic attack. It was not permanent. Unfortunately i got back to my ego self in some few minutes. It did not stick.

@Vagos as someone who got off 6 different psych meds all at once - DONT DO THAT! I seriously got lucky and don’t know how that time around I had no withdrawal - I really do commend your plan. Honestly similar to me. Granted, it’s only been 4 months so I imagine you haven’t built any sort of long term tolerance. Get off them while you can and in whatever way works best for you. I was on 17 years of Adderall and also a whole lot of different SSRIs, mood stabilizers, and even some tranquilizers. Speaking from experience, side effects and downsides of these drugs tend to happen through long term prescription. In the beginning, it can honestly be scary how well certain psych meds work. You think your life is transformed from here on out. It’s kinda like how one feels when having a very cosmic nondual seeming experience (I use “experience” deliberately). You could never fathom how you could possibly fall back. The problem is when time passes by. You will (likely) fall back into old tendencies but now you will have a physiological addiction that can be very hard to not only break but recover from. Honesty, since getting off Adderall, my body, energy levels, cognition, is not the same at all. It’s kinda like a woman after pregnancy. Once she liked sushi. Now she barfs at the smell of it. As far as enlightenment goes, I will tell you, as Ive had glimpses of truth (or as you term it - enlightement experiences) happen to me while on 6 different meds at the same time while even being a total state of utter depression. Granted, once I let go I wasn’t upset (not that I had any context for what I realized) but understand, enlightenment is true and you are actually aware of it in a certain sense right now already. Be careful with how you interpret this but in certain senseX and maybe this is just me, I’ve found mental health issues drive me further and further into disidentification because you are in sense disassociating with everthing that’s arising and is seemingly being experienced including the very sense of being a self or a perceived or a witness or an ego. Enlightenment is true regardless of the condition or state of experience. Nothingness doesn’t change.

Good to hear, you agree. I was kind of worried about bashing the ego too much of trying to make sense and meaning out of a dream. So what is your stance about it when someone says, it is just the ego trying to hold on to a "belief" or a concept and that it all collapses into nothingness anyway. Maybe nothingness is the Fundamental, but the beliefs our egos have, they surely are trying to solve the mystery of life on earth after all or is this also just a concept and narrrative the ego creates? At the end the ego and the mind are also not separate of God, they are god too and God would need an ego to solve its own mysteries? Can it be that God is so mysterious and doesn't even know its own mysteries and needs to go and find out? And how does this mysterous force (be it god creating mysteries) create the mystery of each specific life and the whole world, in our case the earth now? Does god want to learn something in addition to its infinite knowledge? If god incarnates itself into an innocent young boy that is raised by an abusive alcoholic father in a ghetto, surely god cannot just pretend to simply "be" but he is having a challenging life whixh could be a mystery in why such situation occured. Maybe its for god to learn something in addition. Another good mystery to be solved indeed is the origins of the human beings. How did we come here on earth? Ancient texts say it was through ET inteligence. I mean why? What did God think of this mysterious mixture of Et and why do these ET not have contact with us. The darwin theory was so much more smooth to believe and not mysterious at all

The common answer we hear from someone enlightened or awakened about many things that happen in this dream, is that its all concepts, believes and notions that collapse in nothingness. Still this sounds very very simple to me, if nothingness is the ultimate and fundamental source and the ego wants to create a narrative and meaning out of things that happen in the world. Does it mean being enlightened shoswsyou there is absolutely no mystery to the world and things that happen and it is only for us to simply "be"? I mean there seems to be a mysterious force that is leading things to somewhere, according to the collective consciousness. So many things like, Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, ancient prophecies, the Egyptians and their pyramids, Atlantis, the Annunaki and the story of the true origins of human kind,Adam and Ebe and so forth and so on. There is so much mystery on earth that it doesn't seem valid to say it's all concepts that collapse and it is only the ego trying to create a narrative. I mean all the beautiful creative languages, the not solved mystery of how did humans really evolve on earth, are we a mixture of apes and intelligent ETs? Are these ETs gods/brothers going to show themselves to us anytime? How are our actions and our characters really determined? How is it that the character of everyone is so precisely detailed in astrology and forms ones path? Saying that there is nothing and God consciousness just created us to "be", and not rely like the whole truth, because there seems to be so much unresolved on earth alone and so many mysteries come up. Every single event thing on earth is created by gods creative imagination and it seems so much more rich than for us only to "be". Because just logically, how many humans throughout modern and even ancient history and especially nowadays just manages to simply "be" most are driven by the ego characters and desires and by an unconsciouss consciousness and finally are driven by god to mark something in history.

Medicine 200 ug of 1P-LSD Intention I have been contemplating my fears during the last weeks, because I realized I couldn't let go completely during some previous trips and I wanted to investigate more about this and see how far I could go this time. The Trip So I prepared some food and ginger tea and took the medicine around 9 am, then I listened some music while drinking the ginger tea and then made some bilateral symmetric movements. After an hour or so, I started to feel the effects and get some visuals so I laid down on a mat, with the arms and feet fully extended. This time I used a blindfold to cover my eyes from the light, and listened to music a great part of the trip. And it got very wild pretty quick, as I started to feel the effects more strongly, I started to repeat in thoughts, I want to be your vehicle. First, I became aware how my body started vibrating, as if waves of energy were emanating out of my body and then I started to feel a lot of love, love pouring through me, expanding very fast. I can remember some thoughts I had during these moments, "I love everything and every one", "I am love", as if I could tap into the mind of God. The experience just became marvelous, I was captivated of how much love I was feeling and made me cry. I also started to ask, please show me the a way to help other beings, please help me find a path to better support this cause and the answers started to hit me very quickly, as I realized how easily some little actions from myself would help people, family, and friends in need enormously. I also realized how unconscious I am, always spending money on things I don't really need, instead of using it for the greater good of other beings. I realized how the ego just cares of its own agenda and I became very clear to me how I am doing this every moment. I also realized how incredible life is, how incredible and sacred is every moment, every instant of my life, regardless of how banal/superficial the ego wants to make me believe it is. Understanding this made me feel a some how sad, as I realized that most of my daily activities are very unconscious and I got the feeling that I have been wasting my life most of the time. And as these realizations started to come to me, I started to cry, I cried a lot, and purged a lot of pain. It is as if I was overwhelmed from some much beauty and such a great feeling of love, it also felt very sacred. At some point, I felt I wanted to let all the suffering stuck in the universe flow through my body, like the suffering from all those beings that have died in great pain without being able to express it, to let it go. There are some parts of the trips that I find hard to recall, specially during the first hours of the trip, when the effect of the medicine is very intense, and although during that moment everything appears to make perfectly sense, I also know that once I come down from this hyper-consciousness state I will have remembering/understanding what I have been experiencing. There was a moment when I was going through an infinite process of dying and being reborn, like a purification process. As this happened, I started to connect all the suffering that was flowing through me with my own personal history, some very old pain and memories I had buried very deep in my body and unconscious. I could remember some moments when I was two or three years old and I just wanted to spend some time with my father but during this period he had to work a lot, so sometimes I could only see him for some minutes during the day before he had to go to work again. Realizing and accepting that I could not bring back this time anymore, regardless of what I have always tried to do was very painful. Allowing myself to feel this pain was so hard that I ended up crying in a fetal position. There was a moment when I started to feel a lot of physical pain/sore in my body, and doing some Hatha Yoga helped me clear the soreness. This very intense process lasted around six-seven hours but for me it felt like an infinity. After the ego started to reassemble, I started to get hungry. As I was eating something I also started to understand how I could convert this suffering and pain into love. Later during the day I spoke with my parents and had a great talk with them, I could express a lot of feelings and talk with them about situations that until now I had not been able to do, it was so nice and emotive that for some moments we cried together. As I become more and more conscious I also enjoy more to talk and spend time with them. My guess is that I able to see them and accept them for who they truly are. I then finished the day with a long walk in the forest, which help me start recalling the trip and all the realizations I had. As I become more aware I also enjoy to be in more in contact with nature, it feels so satisfying just being there. By the end of the day I was in a very blissful and peaceful state, my body felt very relaxed, as if I had released a very big load. I also had some interesting experiences that I just can not understand: One was, as I was looking on the mat look at the ceiling, I could literally see how the reality was being created in front of me in real time, as if some blocks where continuously assembling the room where I was, and in some parts there was just nothing at all. Another one is as I am looking at my hand looks, which seems to be created by very high vibrations, I lose the sensation that I am seeing at my hand, I lose al the boundaries of myself and it appears to be as if I where seeing just an image on a TV screen and then everything dissolves into nothingness. As I was writing some notes, it felt as if somebody else was writing through my body and I was just watching and then something/someone whispers me into the ear how to finish the sentence and then everything melts down, into nothingness. Conclusions I really enjoyed listening to music during the trip, it was as if the music was made exactly for the moment and it gives me the impression that it helped me let go easier into the experience and kept me on track, but I am not so sure about the blindfold, maybe I could have gone deeper without it. There are so many things that one experiences during a trip that are impossible to put in words. I wish I really could tell you the magnitude of the awakening I had, it felt several orders of magnitude greater than the previous trips. Now I can understand how each awakening always feels to be the greatest one. During this process of dying and being reborn I feel that I my consciousness grew a lot. I can not remember when was the last time I cried so much and could let go of so many pain. I could understand that love is the cause of everything, of every intention in every thing and that we are always looking for love. This gave me so much clarity, which led me to understand how my parents always tried to give me as much love as they could, from their own perspective. I could understand how the present moment is all we have, and how powerful it is to bring purpose into reality. I definitively see the benefit of contemplating, something I have not done for the previous trips. I see how powerful it is combined with the psychedelic experience and the daily practice of Kriya Yoga and meditation, which are bringing me some great gains. Questions I wish I could retain more clearly all the experience/insights I get during the trip. As I am tripping sometimes I write/record some brief notes but I find it very hard just to write or say something and I prefer not to do it a lot to get too distracted. I guess there are no special recipes but any advice is welcomed. Could it be the nature of the psychedelic (LSD)? Thanks a lot if you made it so far, I always try to write the report as brief as I can but it always ends up being long Thank you for your comments, I appreciate all of them and of course, thanks to Leo for his awesome work and the great community of Actualized.org!

@mandyjw I use different terminology but I have basically first done the heroes journey (awakening to nothingness) and now am making the grail path (perhaps you could call it a chakra cleansing or bodily awakening). I have heard about people doing it the other way around so I think it's legit. What has your path looked like?

For me liberation is staying as Nothingness forever with no distinctions. Who needs maya filled with devils. Devils rewarded Angels fucked up and destroyed.

@ajasatya Some Clarification. You as person do not die it only appears that way. Since you Are Conciousness it only change apparent state from Awareness/Dream of how it is not to be God/Vacation/me and world that Thing collapses into Pure Void/Nothingness/Infinite Potential Vortex/Infinite Love. So very much God realization/Enlightenment is death before death. Do not wish to lie People, For enlightenment you will experence death of your Awareness and it feels that way.

What I mean by that comparison isn’t so much related to the paranormal stuff he can do, although you can read accounts of the miracles he’s worked that equate to the stories of Christ and Buddha (and many others - those are just mainstream examples) - and yes I mean the ones people may think are impossible. I leave that out because you can meet many other yogis in India who can perform those sorts of miracles (and that doesn’t make them enlightened - siddhis have nothing to do with enlightenment nor are they only possible from enlightenment). When I make a statement saying he is a modern equivalent to Buddha or Christ, what I’m saying is the level of mastery it takes (and it took 3 lifetimes for him) to take these teachings to the world in the way that he’s doing and with the responsibility and integrity that he’s doing it with. When I say “the level of mastery”, don’t confuse that to “levels of enlightenment” because enlightenment is devoid of levels. The Truth, God, or Godhead, Emptiness, The Self, Nothingness, etc. is devoid of any qualities, much less conceptual levels or stages. As said by Zen masters “there are no masters of Zen.” The question is how much purification is done on the person on an emotional level, energetic level, moral level, etc. The way he is as a person and what he’s doing is just a more cognitively, conceptually, intellectually advanced version of those like Muhammad, Buddha, Christ, Mahavira, etc. Again, you can meet people today who can do the things Buddha, Christ, etc. did and even are similar as a person. But how developed are they in their cognition, values, etc.? Not that developed relative to the modern day believe it or not.