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@Aakash It's a good explanation as far as explanations go, but ultimately it's not the case either. Better to abandon the "logical" ship altogether asap. A truly quiet mind is synonymous with bliss. That's good enough explanation imo. Effort directed towards quieting the mind will be more beneficial than all philosophizing. I mean infinite itself is an idea. Idea itself is an idea. That an idea is an idea is itself is an idea, ad infinitum. The moment one engages in this activity, true knowledge is lost.

The forum has reached stage ruby at its highest levels we've hit on occasions, which is just red warfare, to gain power and monopolise power due to opposing worldviews and cultural norms. This is all enlightened beings participating in a thread debate over truth. Individually everyone is at lower stages. However, when they collectively come together, the gathering of consciousness spikes and it raises higher than their individual levels. its kinda like how we can say the collective species are at stage orange/green development however there are still purple tribes in amazons etc. So the irony as there is loads is Don't tell me your tribes stories and tell me they're true for me. see how complicated this can get it I don't mean it really, just showing an example. I am well aware that what you said is part of the absolute truth at all its highest levels Edit: this ironically proves that there are consciousness levels are happening all at the same time, the levels we haven't discovered in the stages are happening outside of our levels of awareness. Which means there is actually so much to discover about consciousness god and that's the amazing thing about it. You just won't get infinite peace and bliss etc , that's for the god of nothing but that's the sacrifice you have to make. You have to sacrifice your experience for suffering and here you have to sacrifice no suffering for experience lol

@Aakash "It is possible in omniscient, to be conscious enough to reside in a true non-dual state and make your own decisions. That's what i experienced anyway. it is a constant state of contemplation and rewiring your metaphysical knowledge as you would be the only one in the whole world. To constantly be in this state is meditation. its the opposite of no -mind bliss, its mind bliss. " That may be your ego deluding you..because a non-dual state you are God minus the ego. But yes i agree that even if one could reside in a permanent non-dual state, which they can't, it is God's intention to realize that duality IS non-duality and that creating and Love is where it's at..moving all of humanity and all beings and the universe forward. All of it is nirvana.

@Inliytened1 Exactly so it ultimately comes to the decision Are you yourself god or are you isness. The isness will regress society and enlightenment aswell will regress society. So it should be split up completely and in truth it actually is because its impossible to be isness with choice. It is possible in omniscient, to be conscious enough to reside in a true non-dual state and make your own decisions. That's what i experienced anyway. it is a constant state of contemplation and rewiring your metaphysical knowledge as you would be the only one in the whole world. To constantly be in this state is meditation. its the opposite of no -mind bliss, its mind bliss. It then becomes true duality. Which is why i said "true non-duality- true duality complex" is different to enlightenment. You are not choosing because YOU ARE THE ONLY GOD THERE ITSELF. free will and non -free will duality breaks down to be absolute free will. Because you understand you are never going to be absolute infinity itself. You are the infinite-finite being itself, not matter what and that won't change because you can't under any circumstances break down the trinity and become non-existence. Which is the ideal.

@Aakash i think i follow you sorta but there is a key distinction. When you say residing in enlightenment - or non-duality - choosing the path to say that all there is a non-duality..there are no who's..no i..it is only awareness. The problem with that is you are stil in duality when you choose that! Even to choose is dualistic. So remaining in that is still duality. Pure non-duality or non-dual state is eternal bliss - divine - formless ego death. You can't walk around and function like that because you are literally isness.. its no mind bliss and isness at that point. Some non-dual states if deep enough will burst into divine form / Truth realizations (such as the Absolute Truth about reality) But when you say you need to choose you are still in duality.

What is talent, but a projection upon magic? There was a question yesterday...”If I hit you in the head and you lose consciousness, how could you claim there is still consciousness?” The assumption at play is that what was witnessed was actually the loss of consciousness, derived from the assumption something other than consciousness was initially “there” to begin with. When all that was actually “known” was sensation (maya: “hand touching”), and thought (maya: “person, hand, bat, action”). Then remains the “seeing of” movement / change (maya: space, time, physicality, separation, vision, other)....leaving all that was known was the seeing - but the knowing of the seeing is not knowing a separate thing of “seeing” at all. There is no evidence nor direct experience of separation between knowing & seeing whatsoever, sans the re-addition of maya, as projection of other. “These” are but the very same knowing/knower/known/seer/seeing/seen. In this example there is what is directly experienced, and then the adding of uninspected meaning, creating an a priori assumption, that somehow within the movement is a separate individual which possesses consciousness and experiences the ‘loss of consciousness’, while the direct experience is : passing out, not passing out - or, knowing of maya, and knowing of maya - no actual experience of in between knowing and knowing, only a hindsight a priori assumption, a hindsight filling in of the blank, when there was, in actuality, no such blank directly experienced. In the same sense, do you directly experience sleeping for eight hours at night? The direct experience is ‘fall asleep wake up’, and further, we can not even claim that as direct experience but rather, consciousness - consciousness. The blank filled in, is a thought about a blank filled in, not the filling in of an actual blank. Consider, what is your maya of, ‘someone sleeping next to you’? And what is your maya of, you? That we routinely recreate phrases such as “making love” and “sleeping with her / him”, a priori... as pointers to bliss, is a heck of a pointer to actuality, or true nature of, non a priori self. The asking of that distinction can not actually be answered / satisfied by distinction, as still, only your distinction remains, (if that). Another way to express that might be I was not asking for reference to categories, but rather, what you hold as homeostasis. It is in maya, your distinction (if at all), and is your creation (if at all). If a producer made a movie about Shinzen, and the movie articulated and portrayed Shinzen’s life & talents to such an amazing & astounding high degree, truly such an engrossing film, that for a while, you forgot you were watching a movie, “experiencing” vicariously... would you say the producer of the movie was insanely clever in making such a convincing movie, or that you are experiencing your own cleverness, in believing there is a producer, a movie, a you, a Shinzen, and a me saying this? What is context, sans your distinctions / what is distinction, sans context ....And again then, what is homeostasis, un-categorically, without context / distinction? Actual? What is this “ego”, which has abilities, which possesses scope? Which possesses talent? Can you claim you’ve seen or actually experienced talent? Can a distinction such as talent be held and also be understood in actuality, as the holder is “itself” an a priori distinction, believing to be holding an actuality, but has rather an assessment, one’s own distinction. Is “the talent of another” not truly your own talent of illusion of other? Is there this & that perspective, or is there perhaps the beginning of the uprooting of perspective? Is talent not your maya to dispel? Is anything known to you about his skill of meditation? Or are you projecting an idea of yourself, via comparison, upon magic (“Shinzen”)?

Enlightenment is falling in love with everything. Surrender to love can feel like bliss. Love itself is not just a feeling, we feel it when we are conscious that we are it, or rather, that we are not and love IS.

You will be far happier than mdma but way less excited, instead, simply at peace, in joy, love and eternal bliss with self and all that is. The depth of the enlightened state is infinite, the mdma experience is a spec in comparison to the fundamental energy of creation itself awakening to itself.

I recently started experiencing ecstasy after work every day, especially when I work until before midnight and get back home on feet while listening to music. My usual day varies in degrees of happiness, my baseline state is peace, but I still experience suffering from time to time, which clearly shows that I'm not enlightened. To me, enlightenment is like you described, becoming permanently more happy than falling in love, that's pure bliss that I started experiencing lately, plus it's not addictive at all since it requires letting go, I mean it can't be activated when you try to, it will happen only by letting go of it.

This is a very controversial topic. However, there are only two HIGHEST forms of truth The introduction The issue is that knowledge itself is an impossibility. Therefore to determine high degrees of knowledge it is as simple as this NEW KNOWLEDGE new knowledge is the highest form of truth, in other words, new consciousness levels after the break down of non-dual and duality. Skewed towards the duality end of the paradox. In this current period of time... it is finding new spiritual levels, in my experience it is either the path of contemplation or the path of psychedelics. There is a catch-22 like all of absolute infinity is, the double-edge sword and that is that you will have experience, you will suffer etc.. its the path of continuous progress of consciousness. The stipulation is, that it must be constant. This is overall the first form of truth. The second highest truth is enlightenment. I've thought this through... But i have to apologise to the non-duelists for saying that god is everything +nothing. I've come to realise, the highest form of enlightenment is seeing everything as an illusion. There is no debating this. If your version of enlightenment contains any form of everything and really were talking about anything then it is not the highest form of truth. The catch-22 or double-edge sword of enlightenment is the loss of experience and the lack of human-ness in such a being. The explanation To explain it we will have to look at the trinity 2 3 1 The 1 = you and 2 and 3 = Two or duality pair the reason i bring this back to knowledge and the mind is because, the mind can only ground itself in one answer. This is what any one person grounds themselves in their version of highest truth. What this means is that, 1 needs to either favour 2 over 3 and 1 needs to take 1 out the way, therefore eliminating the duality pair. The actual truth is that 1, 2 and 3 get eliminated completely, So the highest truth is actually an impossibility. The removing of "1 or you" still actually leaves 2 and 3 STILL THERE. This is enlightenment. "When the human in the limited infinite-finite section becomes enlightened, the world still goes on realistically" This very statement itself is the opposing statement of somone who has decided to give up 1 and ignore 2 and 3 basically. Typically, 2 and 3 are seen as illusions ideally. This is the result of giving up your authority to the true god particle. This is bringing non-duality into duality to collapse it. Making this the first form of the highest truth The second form is the highest truth is the merger of 1 with 2 and 3. This is the proclaiming of yourself the only infinite-finite ,incomplete-complete god particle. This is bringing duality into non-duality to collapse it. This is ANY form of non-dual awareness, typically with simple stage turquoise non-dual awareness being the least highest degree of this truth. This is knowing you are 1, but 1 = 2 + 3 therefore there is no difference and the equations turns to 1=2=3. Therefore collapsing the whole trinity The conclusion What you have to understand is your mind actively wants to use one to ground itself and it's direct experience. Whether that's no experience and an illusion or experience and grounding in god. The trinity itself needs you to pick one to be the truth. The third way to break it down is 2 = 1 + 3 3 = 2 + 1 therefore 1= 2 =3 and 1 does not equal 2 which does not equal 3 Solving the issue of the highest truth forever What you must understand is that its an impossibility to see them as EXACTLY THE SAME - TWO HIGHEST TRUTHS POSSIBLE, without understanding both of them itself. Absolute infinity will not bend to your wishes in any form. You have your free will to exercise to decide which one you wish to have as your highest truth. They are like i'm saying EXACTLY EQUAL in highest truth. However, you will dispute me on it and automatically say its not, because your mind must choose one! and therefore you have to go outside of the highest truths to the third option and equal them, before cycling back around to your chosen 2 or 3 for you. The simple difference, is you are god-- just in different ways. enlightenment is not the Single and ONLY highest truth The message The TRINITY is UNBREAKABLE and EXISTS no matter what way you look at it, while you are stuck in your finite form of being. The truth is YOU are the only god, YOU are not Absolute infinity, BUT absolute infinity is you. This is the highest trinity in words possible. So choose wisely. Getting blindly roped into enlightenment without a foundation understanding of what it represents, is nothing more than cult behaviour by its "bespoke speakers" who haven't actually thought things through themselves first before deciding. Ultimately, they are not lying. They are right that enlightenment is the highest truth. I'm just saying it's not the only highest truth. There are only two options, which ultimately lead to the only piece of highest correct knowledge possible even if it was gathered through direct experience is.... YOU ARE GOD. this is the only thing you can ever know 100%. However, in the two highest truth one will have been actualised and the other will be actualising constantly for infinity. There is no difference between being god in absolute consciousness and being god in absolute nothingness. The paths can never cross and merge together. You must pick one. End your suffering or end your suffer by LOVE itself. If you are an enlightened being who experiences love, then you are not enlightened to the highest degree or truth. What you fail to understand is, in the highest truth there is absolute nothingness, no piece, no bliss, no nothing. (you can't talk about enlightened beings because its impossible to talk about nothing, so it's really information for non-dual beings and seekers) Opposed to this, it is infact possible to become absolute love and the most embodied dual being and maybe help out people etc. They are both the highest truth. The catch-22 is you must pick which one of the double-edged swords is your choice. And no non-dual awareness is not enlightenment and enlightenment is not absolute truth and therefore what i have said is in fact the absolute truth itself. ironically Answering The potential questions Q1. Aakash, your using your mind this is bullshit ? A. Yes, it is bullshit if you choose enlightenment as your highest truth. I'm not fighting against enlightenment being the highest truth, i'm just saying that it's not the only highest truth. Q2. what makes you qualified to come up with the absolute truth? A. I know the most about absolute infinity as i have said before Q3. How many people in the world do you have to support your claims? A. roughly around 4-5 people in alive today Q4. what does this mean for direct experience of god A. Hunting direct experience and understanding is all there is, as humans we can't do anything else. but if you want to distinguish what i'm saying for yourself, you have to travel and understand both sides. Which is best done at this current moment in time, by having an omniscient awakening. it puts a lot into context and it can only be done with contemplating and psychedelics so far. Disclaimer: I've reached my limits of posts (posts reffering to new threads, about possible insights and new theories) , i've seen after being banned for a week and looking at the conscious politics debates, that students are about 5-10 years on average away from peaking their knowledge of god. It took me around 55,000 hours of thinking and contemplation to put a good crack in the surface of the whole of god. I've been reading the questions and none of them even interest me anymore. I thought by dragging everyone else up, it would be more fun to debate and find new solution and problems. However, its heavily counter-productive when there are two highest truths on one forum. They counter each other and people are obviously going to choose the one which ends your suffering. Leaving on probability one person every 15 years to pick the second highest truth. I have no animosity to anyone, i wish you all well what ever option you pick. However, i have no interest in being constantly banned for help raise that one in 15 year student against the storm of enlightenment. Especially, when no-one is in the wrong in the light of what is the highest truth and this is the truth that will be seen as delusional. Good luck with your journey.

Nope. Resistance is the source of suffering. Not desire. Desire whatever you desire and accept it, and you will be at bliss. Try to kill your desires while they're actually there, and suffer tremendously. Suffering stems from conflict, two things going against each other (mind/heart vs reality). When the mind/heart aligns itself with reality, there will be no suffering at all.

I think you should focus on your own wellbeing. Too much Enlightenment talk can become very depressing. Besides... Noone said you have to believe everything Leo says. Even he said that, if you havent experienced the Absolute then you dont know what he means by Infinite Torture or Infinite Bliss.

There’s no ego, nor ego’s point of view. You’re under the spell of materialism & psychology. You are you. Not “an ego”. These are thoughts you’re aware of. Direct experience is really king here. What you think is life, is a thought about, is consciousness, appearing as. There is only eternity. The meaninglessness point is proven to no one, no where. It’s up to you, it’s for you. There is a tremendous ‘meaning’, Truth, that is experience itself, in need of no reason, no justification, no causations to bliss. Life - Eternity. You created yourself and reality - this is the time to stop all that....if you choose to.

@Shaun As you know, the whole world is your love. Everyone is the recipient of your love. You are Love and bliss itself (nonduality).

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, spiral dynamics etc. Basically any self help model and principles that spirals upwards more and more towards progressively balanced, healthy values, decisions and worldviews. You reap what you sow. Keep on doing that, accumulate good karma and get your goodies. Do the opposite and you accumulate bad karma and you suffer more and more as your life spirals down in unconscious animalistic instincts. The advaitic sage Adi Shankara gave this analogy. 1) The ones with 'good' karma get a human life with a relatively healthy body-mind that can achieve it's goals and conquer circumstances 2) The ones with 'better' karma get born in great affluence, wealth and circumstance. In other words, being born with a golden spoon in mouth. They are set for life and almost all the worldly pleasures are available to them 3) The ones with the 'best' karma get born with a certain dispassion and inquisitive mind. They are like the 0.0001% who come across this message of nondual liberation and intellectually understands the significance of it. They are the most blessed ones who have the most chance to escape the wheel of samsara. But the downside is, the better karma, the quicker it burns out. So fasten your seatbelts folks! ''Blessed is he, the wearer of loincloth; having the earth as his bed and sky as his roof; he remains ever free, in absolute bliss without a single care of the world''

@Viking How’s meditation going? That will settle the mind. Your natural state is bliss.

I love myself as i love you. (You are me). So no reason to jump a bridge - but if death took me i would embrace because i have already died and it is pure bliss and Love. IQ doesn't mean anything unless you give it meaning.

Really interesting topic. The outcome of a psychedelic experience and any intense experiences in general is kind of unpredictable. Of course having a good setting, mindset and ability to surrender usually leads to expansive and liberating experiences, but because of the intensity of these experiences there's always the potential for some kind of trauma. Personally, my trips have usually involved moments of pure laughter and bliss and also moments of fear. However, these "bad" moments always led me to a deeper understanding of how my mind works, which after some integration always had a positive impact on my life. This makes me think that the attitude you have towards unpleasant experiences in general has a big effect on how they will impact your life. If you see them as lessons and give yourself time to integrate and re-ground yourself, I think "bad trips" can actually help you improve your life. However, I've never done big doses and my bad experiences may not have been as hellish as those other people have experienced. @Serotoninluv Your experience with cannabis is very similar to mine. I don't know if it's a substance that doesn't resonate well with my brain chemistry, if it's just showing me my anxieties and fear of letting go or if it's both. Probably both

Fundamentally/energetically is relative. How a particular mind-body fundamentally/energetically resonates with psychedelics is relative and involves many variables. For some mind-bodies in certain settings it can induce expansive liberation, in other mind-bodies it can induce trauma. @Shadowraix Same with me. Psychedelics resonated well with me and were an amazing growth tool. I assumed that’s just how it was. I now realize not everyone resonates like me. There are many forms of resonance and many variables. And it’s not because “they weren’t ready”, “not conscious enough” or “unwilling to surrender”. They just didn’t resonate with psyches like I did. . . I’m now more cautious how I discuss psyches with newbies. What I find equally fascinating is that the same mind-body can resonate differently at different times. I’ve had many different resonances with psyches ranging from pure live and bliss to a horror show. . . For a couple years, cannabis raised my conscious level allowing increased resonance and opening up dimensions in nature and yoga. Then the resonance suddenly changed and it started inducing contraction into personality, anxiety and paranoia. Life is so bizarre at times.

I get the feeling we're circling in words, conditions, thoughts, reflections... understanding with our limited human intellect. There is more truth in letting go of the ankerpoints, showing your natural state, elevating. This high state of vibration, of joy, bliss, natural intelligence. Getting delirious happy. I'm voting for a x min video of @Leo Gura looking at the camera, not saying anything and radiating the love ? I'm sure you sense more than all these words

It depends. If death is instantaneous - there is no suffering. You will instantaneously be God consciousness, or the Godhead. This is pure bliss and love. If your finite form does not cease immediately there will be suffering until it does..which again afterwards results in the Godhead - pure bliss and love. So there is no reason to fear. Any suffering you could endure is finite as ultimately you are Infinite consciousness. But we are getting off topic as the discussion was if it should he encouraged.

For my own experience liberation isn't about consciousnesses or awareness, any clarity or expansion of those are an expression, a byproduct of liberation. What is my experience of liberation is the freedom from self suffering so this is the source of well being. Since my well being is ever present through just being present if my body is hungry I feed it, or not because I have no attachment to the feeling of hunger or satiation as the source of well being. I experience them and the body has many urges and impulses but my well being isn't dependent on them. So you may ask why do I do anything then? With well being, the joy and peace, that which is called bliss is ever present so if I do or don't do it still is. This way everything I do or not do is an expression of that well being and through this only what resonates with that well being will be what I do....or not do. Of course, sometimes the world requires me to act in ways that may not resonate with well being. If my well being was dependent on my actions then that bliss would be transitory and not really bliss at all. This is an indication of genuine liberation because if we experience it through all manner of circumstances, it's genuine. Regardless of what's 'real' or an 'illusion', which is just another mistaken perception of dualism, what is just is what is. If you're hungry then eat...or not, sometimes fasting is more satisfying than stuffing the belly. Genuine liberation isn't contingent on circumstances aligning in one way or another, it transcends circumstance.

@Inliytened1 You don't understand, you haven't locked out of the system as total as this yet. There is no winterknight. We are essentially talking to nobody. There is nothing we can say to him, that will make him change his mind because he is indeed completely enlightened. To him this conversation isn't even happening. any word used to describe him and his enlightenment. Will not do. Its like i said, it's the final stage of enlightenment. what happens is your meta-knowledge and your ideologies, problems etc.. get "saved" like a save point and that's it.. you'll just work like that the rest of your life. because your knowledge structure of enlightenment and who you are will not change. These are not debatable points for him. We are not even ignorant to him, because ignorant doesn't exist to him. it is as he says ultimate peace and ultimate bliss. Which is not even in his experience. its undescribable in words, even for us. its a state where its impossible to contemplate, so it's virtually impossible to change your position on any topics because they don't even exist in your experience. its a strange loop that can't be broken, once you enter. so its being locked out. Scary indeed , it gives me chills. However, i'm glad that you are here on this forum winterknight and i am glad that you are you and you are happy with your enlightenment. This is all i can ask for from one human being to a non-human being. The true self doesn't change, the duality version of that true self changes. This is the only thing i can infer. But you must lock out to know what the true self is. The difference between a bodivista and buddha nature. It doesn't matter consciousness will multiply infinitely, but the buddha nature won't. They are the same and they are different. But this is from a seperate self position. when you are completely enlightened, the whole illusion dispels. including the break down of non-duality/ duality.

#1: My Belief in Otherness I usually keep this to myself. Still, eleven years ago, I heard a person say that alterity is the ultimate truth of love. That is my God-of-Otherness. May our relationships be like Their unknown relationships. #2: I saw a glorious secret, but I forget what it was! The proof of knowing that God-is-real but different-than-you-think eluded me as I tried to remember a glory I momentarily glimpsed. It reminded me of Anselm's argument, 'a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.' I tried to hang on to the proof, but all I could say was, "God is real, but it is not what you think." #3 My Vision of Strange Obedience The next secret of my life is that I once saw a vision in my imagination. I was looking at a person giving me some symbolic items, and I imagined seeing something on top of what I saw. I mean, my imagination pretended that I saw something else, and the imaginary memory replaced the real memory. In this vision, a man gave me something. He thought God wanted him to give it to me, even though the man could not understand why. I think, "God loves me." #4 My Secret Amnesia: About 4 years ago, I said to myself, "I will never be healed because of my [basically] sexless marriage." That experience of misaligned sex drives really hurt me. I thought it would change when we got married and then I did not leave her after we got married. Earlier today, I looked at my happy wife, my happy son, and my happy daughter--and I said, "I am very, very, very happy." As for about what to do with a sexless marriage--no answers over here! I definitely do not have sexuality figured out, by any means. My sexuality is full of guilt. But I will say this: I can barely remember good things during my times of suffering, and I can scarcely remember sorrow during my times of bliss. And I try to remember sorrow in happiness, and I try to remember good times during misery. Solon also says, "until [a lucky man] is dead, you had better refrain from calling him happy, and just call him fortunate." #5 My Dreams of Anti-Personality: Another secret of my life is that I had a series of dreams about an orange fleshy spider--that was terrifying. The spider felt eerily present even after I woke up. At the end of this series, I had a dream of being among cannibals. The outcome of this cannibal dream bifurcated. Well, nearly 499 years have passed years since Tenochtitlan and the genocide that ended government-imposed cannibalism in North America. By contrast with those psychological projections, I have another secret: I had a dream about a demon. The demon was like a floating ball or a small tornado of lightning. That demon might believe that God is one, but its awareness was more like an anti-personality. I was hugging my knees and rocking on my heels and bum a week later. #6 My Secret Role-Model: About 483 years ago, Martin Ocelotl got punished for healing broken bones and infected bodies. Ocelotl did not tell his secrets too soon. He bided his time. Ocelotl's glory, including vast riches and property, gradually emerged during his "humiliation." Don Carlos got so mad about the ordeal that he started ranting, "Eat, drink, and have sex with your neighbour's wife, for tomorrow we die: that is the orthodox doctrine that we received." So the Inquisition burnt Carlos, but they only whipped Ocelotl and gave him three years in a mine for doing what he thought was right.

First off that's great - it sounds - and correct me if I'm misinterpreting - that you experienced enlightenment or formlessness. Because yes a non-dual state is the death of the ego but consciousness as the Godhead. So there is the bliss of Being which bursts into divine form and realizations. So what do you mean go forward with death?