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We grow through life experiencing many different ways to relate ourselves to the world. I’ll call these, fragmented states or ways of perceiving reality based off our knowledge and experience. There’s an infinite number of these states and they constantly evolve through personal development. For there to be an awakening, all of these states must collapse into complete wholeness of being or nothingness. As we get older, our identification with these states gets stronger and harder to integrate. I believe this is where psychedelics can be very useful in breaking down our attachments to certain thought patterns. Anyways, back on topic. Nearly all of us unknowingly form spiritual egos after having the realization of this Truth, and this too forms a fragment. Others realize this and begin the process of integration. Unfortunately this process can be really really challenging if we begin resisting the experiencing of old fragmented states, because this creates more conflicts/fragments. This resistance is what causes what’s often referred to as ego backlash and dark nights of the soul. if you’ve had an awakening then you will never not know the Truth, but this doesn’t negate the mechanics of the mind and prevent you from not falling into its survival tricks the mind will always want to believe it can find and embody wholeness but this is impossible. Wholeness can only find and embody you. This “you”, this separation, is then understood to be a belief The more love we bring to our fragments, the more wisdom we will gain and the more likely wholeness will come knocking on our ? to purify our existence

In a sense I'm a raging hypocrite. Through Inquiry, I can no longer run from it. This helps me to see the nothingness of my personality. Feeling deeply this nothingness liberates me, surprisingly.

@zeroISinfinity yes, unspeakable, but it's ok to speak it, at least try. I keep saying here in this forum from time to time to do it in the life purpose in a cunning way, so that those who are ready to hear it will hear it. I do encourage being a pointer. The world, universe, and "you" are one. "You" fell into love as God (No-self/Nothingness) and from God. The latter is from the ego's perspective. That's why they call it to "fall in love." That is the purpose of life--the true mission is to love. It's the love that you give that counts. (For me, I didn't "blow up." I say this because Leo said he "blew up/exploded." There wasn't any ego to begin with. It was only transformations, for me, from the No-self. No-self = no body or external environment. No suffering. Just peace.)

@Shaun Are you aware of those thoughts about nothingness & space? Are you the awareness of thoughts?

The thoughts of nothingness and space are not nothingness or space.

What is the difference between your thought about nothingness and space and the actuality of nothingness and space?

Is the reason we can't access each others experience because one sensation, thought or perception can't know another? It led me to imagine that the only reality there is to myself or another person is just thoughts, sensations and perceptions arising out of nothingness. All of us are this "space" of knowing.

Leo told it's a sectary activity loved by chimps, > it's all for sex that we likes music anyway - freud-nisme, we don't in fact like music, we do it for survival and amplify emotion like drug addicts grouping in a bunch of monkeys ( he doesn't really told this, it's just one perspective remixed of his perspective, or better, find for yourself ) I think he pretty nailed it .. I still love music for the pleasure, my fav addiction Music is not how the universe is made, cause waves are maybe like thoughts, so in fact, music is the biggest delusion of all, in fact you only hear noises, but no one knows why the mind is creating sense out of pure nothingness wave frequency, pattern of nothingness but in reality, sure things, human music is maybe only for humans because your ears are in a certain range of frequency reach. there is perspective or metaperspective on what is music tho, but the best way is experience, listening tons of different kinds of song + noise + asmr + all audio, and you'll nail the question for yourself, what is music ? but anyway, I'll keep being a musician

@Gili Trawangan Truth has value only because we're deluded. If we weren't, it wouldn't mean anything to us. Truth is not blissful, nor horrible. Truth is just True. Meanings are being attached to Truth from the human perspective because we're still deluded. The ultimate Truth is Nothingness, and that is death.

'The world is not a problem to be solved, but an expercience to be lived!' Enjoy!

Good topic question. Leo says it according to his experience, and yes, I could definitely tell that it's not required for anyone to believe blindly what he says. And, yes, he's being honest to the best of his knowledge. However, if you suspect that something even deeper happened to you, and you want to tell Leo about it, it will probably not be easy to encourage him or convince him to "agree" with you because he hasn't experienced it yet. I agree with him that the no-self/nothingness is the deepest, if that's what he's saying. However, when you look at your life, does your experience of the no-self/nothingness fits into your life with profound meaning or not? Is it pointing to anything else in your life? Or, does it just come randomly here and there. If it does add to the profound meaning within your life, then I could relate. And, I would encourage you to say it in your life purpose in a cunning way so that those who are ready to hear it (awakened ppl) will understand that you're pointing to something very inspiring.

mandyjw, How can you be Him? First of all, you were created by God. Secondly, you're not the same gender as He. So, thirdly, you're not my old flame. Nothingness is the absence of beauty. Beauty is the fullness of being. I'm very happy for the imperfect to be made perfect, for the corruption of all things to dissolve and be replaced by incorruption, in other words TRANSFORMATION. That and our reconciliation with our Creator is the ultimate goal. Andrea

I can be Her though, you forgot about her didn't you? It all dissolves into same beautiful nothingness no matter what you gaze at.

Among the great things which are to be found among us, the Being of Nothingness is the greatest. - Leonardo da Vinci

@zeroISinfinity You're full of shit, Alex. I guess nothingness loves spending time on this forum, speaking nonsense. Has nothing else to do. No one here is nothing. Nor will ever be. Whoever claims that, they also eat horseshit for dinner. Ridiculous. Only nothing is nothing. And it's not hijacking enlightenment forums to let everyone know. Love and light tho, bro. Purge well.

I spent a lot of my life trying to keep up with men at physical labor jobs. Raking blueberries, demoing, lawn work, whatever. It was an obvious thing that i eventually had to accept that I could work twice as hard and still not match them. When we hired out a ton of plumbing work I had to leave the house because the plumbers dope (pipe adhesive), started literately making me high. I don't remember what I said to the plumbers but I left the house and drove to my parent's house. The roads were snowy but it was warm and sunny and I remember seeing the sky reflected in the road and just being so fascinated that the road looked like it fell away into the nothingness of the sky and having an almost enlightenment experience. Then I thought about how all those men have gotten so used to those fumes, day in and day out working stuck in a basement all day. And I was really really grateful to them. Most women are too smart and care too much about their health to do that kind of work. I truly admire men who do blue collar labor, the truck drivers, the construction workers. Sure women can do that kind of work, but most can't or won't. This is a fact that we're just supposed to ignore. And our ignorance of it, is why rural America elected Donald Trump. Stage green feminism elitism has created a monster.

Past vs Future You are reading Self-written words (right now in an eternal moment) from a past-Self-me to future-Self-you. We share The-Self through communion. What is communion but my-Self communicating to your-Self. Reality is a trick coin! Both sides are heads! Because what is heads and tails? A duality. 1=0 because 0=∞ Why does 0=∞? Because 0 infinitely divides into 0. 0 = ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1 This means that 0 = any number 0 = 5, 0 = 1,000,000, 0 = 52 [%] The division symbol is a 0 seperated by a 0 by a line. 0 cannot be seperated from 0 because they are entangled. You vs Me is another duality. The coin analogy shows us we exist on the same coin or as the same Self (The Entirety of the coin) Kundalini The symbolism of kundalini is how you were born. Your father released sperm and it travelled to the egg. Kundalini Awakening Kundalini is life energy - sperm - (root chakra) traveling up the spine to the egg (crown chakra), where Self is centered. The whole proccess of kundalini awakening is re-birth as God-Self or No-self. You are born again as Nothingness, or Absolute 0, or Self. Bubble Bath Analogy Imagine a bubble bath where there is a formation of lots of small bubbles. Now imagine these small bubbles break their distinctions with the other bubbles. The bubbles would just become Bubble. Big Cook, Little cook We all exist as The Same One/Zero Big Cook, however, we believe we are all little cooks. Centering Self-Centering is the process of looking through Self, as Self. Self is background, which means before-ground or before-form. That means that background is the groundless-ground or the formless-form, Self. Foreground self The fore-ground self is what you are identified with. It's false-hood, you can't put a hood on a headless-head. Centering Exercise Focus awareness on foreground. E.g. the wall. Then, whilst focusing on foreground, focus on the proccess of looking and also bring awareness on the nose and just start noticing there is a background Self. Note: You can always see your nose in Actuality, the mind filters it out. So your mind cuts off it's own nose, like voldemort. Focus on the proccess of looking and don't let the nose disappear. Just allow your-self to keep looking as Self, until breakthrough. Combine Centering with Kundalini Yoga. "Staying on your centre is being centerless."

It's funny that you just posted this now because I've been going through this, only for me it's a revival. I was raised as a Christian and my parents had already left the church and were bitter about the organized religion part of it when I was very young. I took an interest in it myself and studied my Bible on my own, mostly just the gospels but I also loved Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. There were a lot of verses that I would read again and try to understand. As a teenager and young adult I deeply, deeply hated other Christians and the status quo. It's like I wanted to suffer because most of the friends I made were Christian and those friends judged me for being friends with other people that they thought were "bad". I even had a Satanist friend and he was a blast. I was always trying to separate out the truth of Jesus from all the bullshit. I let go of the whole idea, shortly after getting into Buddhism. It's a really scary thing to step away from the thing that you've been taught is your "salvation" and "hope of eternal life". But I knew I had found the truth with nonduality. Those verses that perplexed me and frustrated me, one by one I understood them as epiphanies. My new dogma was nonduality. My new dogma was letting go of my past, not putting hope in a future. My new dogma was the present moment and nothingness, no attachment. Then after a few years it stopped serving me. My entire purpose for nonduality was so I could have mental peace. I became depressed and old patterns flooded in but at the same time, I started connecting deeply with different types of energy from places, and having inexplicable attractions to them. It all unfolded into an awakening in which I accepted that I had always tried to be good, and never recognized the devil in myself. I had been raised to be a moral, good Christian girl and I had truly wanted to be one. When I outgrew it I turned to Buddhism and non duality to serve the same purpose, so I could see myself as a good person. After I recognized the Devil in myself I truly experienced what is meant by the Holy Spirit, it is the same as kundalini energy. Of course! This is nonduality! My eyes were opened to the true mystic, Gnostic Jesus I had loved all along, more fully himself/myself. Christians have buried the nondual teachings and they don't understand the ones that persist in the Bible. They weeded out hundred of years ago. That's why it's so very dangerous, without an open mind, without wisdom and understanding you will turn nondual teachings into the worst kind of hell. I highly suggest reading the gospel of Thomas. Jesus goes way deeper than Buddha. He has an outrageous sort of love, and there are predictions and signs and tough riddles to understand that aren't present with Buddhism. It takes a very open mind to dive into this stuff.

@EvilAngel did your sense of self vanish and experience nothingness ?

@Anna1 would love to hear your perspective. What i have become conscious of is that free will and no free will are dualities so when collapsed there is only Infinity. Can't be free will from Gods perspective. There there is just formlessness and everything that ever happened or didnt happen is contained within but as pure potential.. nothingness. But then he creates dualities through form..he creates your perspective (which is still him) and he gives you free will....Or so it seems, from your perspective! It's brilliant! Of course again i use "he" metaphorically for God or Awareness. Or absolute Infinity.

Thanks @Leo Gura . That's quite a profound answer. I'm planning on doing some tomorrow. Can you perhaps share what your schedule looked like on your 30 day retreat in regards to doing 5 MEO? Best to meditate before or after? I always find when I mediate after , even for a few days after, that its just nothingness. Which is great. Then the monkey mind always returns at some point.

@pluto Interesting.Drop all methods and surrender to life ? Can you please elaborate more. What is this light body connecting with Avatar ? Is that beyond nothingness ?? Can you name some enlightened masters and books by them ?

@Truth Addict I wanted to say that I appreciate what you are saying in this post and the other post that you created, because is good to see other perspectives, or as you said, we will be stuck in our position only. I think is good to be honest and share an honest opinion. The only thing that it called my attention was that you and Joseph were in a position in which if we didn't think the way you did we were Leo's butt kissers or we were in a cult following Leo like he is a kind of Guru with some kind of paranormal power. I think we need to understand that we are here to share our views, but we can't impose them to others, because saying that we are butt kissers of Leo is like, saying "Ok, you don't like my observations? So now you are this or that" it's a kind of emotional blackmail I think. When I said to Joseph that we should just share our visions and do criticism yes, but to certain point. You know people takes a lot of time to change and if we keep pressuring someone to impose our vision finally what we are going to get is the opposite result. When I said we should only tell our differences and share our views, Joseph asked me "how do we grow then?" And that was when I told him just seeing and sharing our experiences. Then he said "Ok, why don't we hold our hands and sing Kumbaya?" I don't know, that kind of responses makes me not to want to talk to that person anymore, really. but let me tell you something, nothing is going to make me get angry with anyone or not accept a critic it doesn't matter from where it comes. there's nothing that will make me feel bad or will anger me because of a criticism. And if it happens, I will just watch the emotion and know that I am nothingness and problem solved!!! Lol... I just wanted to share this with you and I appreciate your honesty for sharing your vision with us. Sleep well and have a dream with unicorns!

Oh gosh, I refuse to believe that you're dense. It's like you want it to continue . How is it that there is something, a 'me' that is perception itself, that cannot be located and does not have any attributes? Try describing infinity. Can you do that? Try describing nothingness. Can you do that? Try describing a 'me' that cannot be located and does not have any attributes. Can you do that? Do you know the nature of that mistake? It's not about factual incorrectness, it's about seeing. You read a book, a detective story, that has a plot twist at the end and where the whole thing gets recontextualized. All bits fall into their right places, it's not the maid - it's the butler! What is that moment, the illumination? Can it be perceived? No - it's the footprint of mental scaffolding crumbling, revealing the truth. You do not add thoughts in this work, you remove them. You may have removed many things, but identification is still there. You don't see infinity, you treat it as a concept. What triggers you about Leo is your own concept that you're trying to overcome and you're blaming him for it.

stories are true and non true. even what nahm said, doesn't work in all situation. it's so easy to explain non duality. imagine aliens comes on earth, they have none of our biologic content and our education, they are made of particles of metal and still kind of talks with electronic waves and have no eyes or ears. would they figure out what an "HAND" is ? how would you explain them what a concept is, even what a word is, a noise. this is what is non duality, knowing that all there is in "reality" is nothingness, or whatever your mind put an attribut on. in a litteral sense, mathematic truly doesn't exist. it just is a key we use to unscript what reality probably is at best, that's why the world is working upon theory of truth, not on "truth" what alien would"see" is true non duality in a way. Unless their own tongue is paved in a duality realm and they got their own duality problems with their waves