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No one can assure you enlightenment exists, though you can meet people who've claimed to have awakened and speak/be with them (and experience glimpses of their state), and that's the best evidence you can get. However, we can know what un-enlightenment is, and there are degrees of it: being identified with beliefs, thought, and body, which we know can diminish (so it can end completely), and unenligthenment is constantly thinking, which can stop as well.

This is something that I keep on pondering about. Many renowned spiritual teachers and gurus emphasize the importance of having a living spiritual teacher to guide you. Many even say that without gurus guidance, you can't make it. On the other hand there's a lot of talk about the inner guru, the intuition or the silent guiding voice inside us all. I'd say I understand the guru-argument very well considering times before the internet and readily available spiritual books and other materials. If you lived in a small village and had an urge to do spiritual seeking but absolutely no idea of what it even means - In that case a teacher is absolutely needed to point one in the right direction. Also the many spiritual traps might be difficult to avoid without outside guidance. Such as developing a spiritual ego etc. Anyway, today we have the luxury of Youtube and other internet sites that have huge amounts of information, talks and guidance for spiritual seekers. Of course you need to have some discernment on that too, but generally the good teachers are known in spiritual circles. Now I'm wondering if all the material online and on books can be of any substitute for a teacher/guru. Certainly you need to have a high sense of honesty about your own progress, an ability to see that you're not being phony-holy or deceiving yourself on how far you've gotten. In my case, I have almost always found a direct answer to any question I might have had from some of the teachers who have videos on Youtube (Adyashanti, Rubert Spira, Francis Lucille, Sadhguru etc). Then there's the question of "energetic transmission" and the presence of an awakened being. Do you feel that's something that is absolutely essential and can't be experienced in any other way than to be physically close to the awakened person? The reason I'm asking your thoughts about this is because I live in a place where I have no access or information of any valid spiritual teachers. It's somewhat disheartening sometimes to read statements of "not being able to make progress without the grace of a living guru".

Dear Leo, I enjoy your sharing tremendously. Found you a while ago through the interview with Martin Ball. Your recent videos on Understanding Absolute Infinity and your deeper realization is the most articulate, clear, and honest expression I've come across, and the messages are as much as the dream character can intellectually understand. One simple question, why is there even a need to self actualize or waking up, if all there is, is already Absolute Reality. If there is a need, so be it; if there is not, perfect too. The Absolute Infinity doesn't really give a fuck whether the dream characters wake up or not, yes? Paradoxically, if the dream characters want to strive to wake up within the dream, but still confined by the rules and physics of this dream, it's completely OK too. That leaves everything to completely perfect as it appears, awakened and asleep, since it allows every possibility to exist, and not exist at the same time, and no one can get it wrong or get it right, yes? Thank you very much. Looking forward to play and experiment in your future development. With deepest love and appreciation, Michael

I know @WildeChilde It's all good. I understand. I think the same as you, but in reality no one knows. The other day I was thinking, what if we are all awakened but we don't know? Lol :-P

@abrakamowse It's good man . I created this thread because in some more recent videos, Leo said he's getting pretty close, but he never claimed to be fully awakened. I know this is just going by his words, but I highly doubt Leo would lie to us especially about something like this. If he did, then what would that say about him as a teacher? I'm assuming he is not fully and permanently awakened because he's still a seeker. He's seeking really hard actually. Who else can go to the most beautiful part of the world and spend the whole time self-inquiring and meditating?

Why are you assuming that he is not fully and permanently awakened? No one knows, maybe he is. (And I also did it with some humor, I never am very serious, sorry hehehe... )

The direct approach will not work just like that for anybody.. Because, , the mind is accustomed to going outward.. Even Ramana Maharshi have talked about other practices like Yoga for the beginners. But don't compare Ramana Maharshi with many neo-advaita teachers who spend their entire life by asking one question 'who is asking this question' for any question that is put to them.. What I explained is essential in all major traditions like Yoga, Vedanta, and Buddhism for thousands of years. Buddha taught Shamatha for the same reason. Actually, when you do Astanga Yoga, you are rejecting all the thoughts by holding on to one thought. This is how the mind is initially trained. This is completely different from the monkey mind which goes from one thought to another. It is the direct approach that takes one to self-realization. But the question is, are people able to do it right away? If they can do it right away and get instantly awakened, that would be great. But for many people, this is not a reality. They do a lot of practices to develop discrimination and non-attachment. Only after getting some maturity, they are really able to do self-inquiry.

Just to make your ego happy Imo B. However, that's lame question P.S. Leo is already awakened on the mind level. It takes more time to see these effects on emotional level. Emotional awakening is the hardest (stopping identifying with emotions). Many of us already are awakened on the mind level.

It's both psychological and physical in my opinion. The more you masturbate, the more the body will get ready for a new session, but of course the mind has a main role here. The mind if addicted to this would be triggered much easily in doing the PMO cycle. Some times i interrupt my nofap chain just because I wanted to remember what fapping is (ah-ha), so without real urges, but when I did it ONE times my genitals would be triggered to do that again, like i awakened my willy from lethargy and will send a message to my brain to do that again. It's connected. That's why many suggest cold showers to get rid of urges...is a physical sensation that calm body and mind. If it easier i think is for both less mind addiction and less physical stimulation overall. But who knows, is only my assumption.

This is a highly political issue. I wish I could give you an honest opinion, but I know we have to behave on here . I would say if everybody were awakened though, either one would be fine. At the very least there would be peace.

@electroBeam It is because the material world is 'observed' by 'cosmic consciousness' in a universal macroscopic perspective so has collapsed into the manifest reality we observe from our individual microscopic perspective. Much of the consciousness work we are engaged in is merely altering our subjective experience perceptions of the manifest not actually altering the objective reality properties of the manifest. What most of the participants on this forum are doing is what 'spiritualists' and religious adherents typically do, declare their personal perspective built on the belief paradigm of their experiential perceptions as "truth" that supersedes the manifest reality. If they are really as enlightened and awakened as they proclaim to be there would be an awareness that the physical and spiritual manifest realities coexist with each other not conflict with each other. In order to have an absolute faith in their subjective spiritual personal belief paradigms that allows them to transcend the conditioning of the mind they think they need to disbelieve the objective physical manifest reality. This is based on the accurate premise that to transcend the emotional mind-body we do disbelieve the conditioning the self reflexively creates and believe a different paradigm oriented in an awakened and 'free' state. Although, the fictional 'spiritual story' belief paradigm that has been built upon an actual mechanism of consciousness liberation has turned into a culty corruption filled with dogmatic ideology posturing as the 'absolute truth'.

Talking from a highly crystallized but non-metaphysical, non-gurean, pro-materialistic perspective, all that my non-awakened mind can call for is to make to a clear distinction between belief and knowledge, which is the core concern of epistemology. You are a homo sapien. It is because the DNA in your cell is same as other homo sapiens. This is knowledge. You are a hindus, muslim, an alpha, a beta, a descendent of caesar, napoleon, a success , a faliure , these things can be categorized as beliefs. I think a fact is static, it can be replayed again and again. It is when your mind and mind of god are in sync. A belief is a fussy fact that our particular position and chance has happened to by the infinity grace of the divine light, impinged into the mirror of our juvenile mind when we were once children.

I just discovered Shakti Caterina Maggi, (who I am certain has awakened and hasn't fallen back asleep) and found the exact message about relationships that I have been looking for, consciously and unconsciously, forever. I wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

Jesus uses a lot of nondual pointers in his teachings. And of course the more well-known teachings about love and compassion. To me Jesus seems like somebody who next to living as Self also embodied an open heart (unconditional love) and fearlesness. My guess is that his mind, heart and gut where all totally awakened.

It is good to see that you are having this sudden insights and I am well acquainted with that great feeling one has after getting such insights. But the insight you had about how awareness/ enlightenment frees you from the cycle of karma, from maya( great lack of awareness which makes people to react and gets them locked in the cycle of life and death) is a well known idea found in hindus and buddhist traditions. May be this time you got a deeper feeling for this concept , or arrived at it from a completely intuitive level. But I have issues with this idea of karma. As I look at the overwhelming amount of evidence for so many good people suffering and bad people thriving , and finding almost no evidence for the opposite to be true except in cases which have the same consistency as mere chance , I begin to doubt this idea. The idea of karma is beautiful, but when one is constantly aware of the overwhelming amount of suffering present in this world which follows no rules of morality, but follows only the rules of statistics, chance and organic evolution, it's very hard to buy into this idea. The living world is surely dictated by laws, by a logos, but I it has very little to do with morality, and more to do with survival. So I think that even the awakened being is susceptible to ,karma the cycle of cause and events . But because he is now aware of course there is something different going on. But you said- And as you slowly become concious LITERALLY the laws of your reality changes.... I think the physical world will remain the same. I don't think that now for some reason good things will start to happen to him. I think that the meaning of being free from karma , means being free from all the habitual conditionings of the mind ,being free of the deep unawareness that people go through which puts them in a bondage and makes them act in a reactive instinctual away and when this unawareness is collectively taken ,the people work within a chain of cause and effect ,which is the bondage of karma. I think being free of karma means being free of this deep habitual bondage that we go through in our daily lives. Another way to look at it- To be within karma is like being a dog. You are completely unaware that you are a dog, and you live and act as a dog, and you suffer a lot because of this, and you follow the rules of a dog. When you become a aware, you start to see what is going on. Now you are outside the paradigm that other fellow dog friends are locked in. That is what being outside of karma means.

@Ether Haha who me awakened? No, I improvised on this scene from the movie Dune. He may have taken a break from "consciousness work" after this.

The seeker has awakened.

@tsukiHey bro. I wish i could surround myself with wise and awakened people.I am alone on my path and very lonely sometimes. I'm not actually trying to run away from my past, i just need more peace to reprogram my subconscious mind.There's alot of shit inside which I recently started to truly being aware of.And oh man, how the fuck could i live like that?Realizing that i was such i machine for my whole life was very scary in the beggining.Reversing such a thing, the ego practically, will take me many many years. I also feel sick and fucked up but I'm working on it.I changed all my habits, and I'm working on my addictions as much as i can.huge difference.The people...oh man, i just see nothing but sleepiness and sickness. The thing with me is, i have multiple personalities since i started working with my ego.Consciousness fluctuating, mood and behaviour changes all the time.Circumstances also are important.Can you believe that right now I am motivated to stay here in this rathole and go along with the illusion and the dreams?Strange things are happening.

No I mean enlightened/awakened, and even then, you might still not love (there is different type of awakening). But how does the "feel sorry" for them feels ? Is it a superiority complex or a compassion thing ? Might want to summon some guys like Nahm, Shanmugam here etc... I don't really know what I'm talking about if I'm really honest here

@vanish Hang on a minute. To awaken presuposes that you're asleep - a.k.a. having a dream. But unless you've awakened before, how would you know you're asleep and that it is actually possible to awaken? How can you trust anyone else's word for it - they're just dream characters? And anyway, where's the 100% certainty that you will awaken INTO something else? And to be honest how do you know this is the same dream every day? Maybe you're awakening all the time? Just chewing the fat...

Let's say I'm working a lot on myself. I am pretty awakened to certain existential truths, I read self-help materials, I research my diet and fitness stuff, I plan my life and career, I take care of my look and I do my best to be a good girlfriend. Can I build a successful relationship with someone who probably doesn't even know or care about these things and just is the way he is? Not to mean he is dumb or unworthy of my love. Sure he can be caring, sexy, funny, charming and all the stuff some guys cannot achieve even with self-help books and courses... But we don't always connect. So I have a few questions: 1. What is the biggest obstacle in a relationship between an ordinary person and someone doing self-development? 2. Can it be a successful relationship? If so, what is necessary for this to happen? 3. Is it worth a shot? What experiences can one gain, if any? 4. What if both are in love with each other, but don't always connect? 5. Is it possible to get him involved into self-development for the sake of the relationship? If so, how?

@ppfeiff Eckhart Tolle: Thats why people have been studying zen for so many years and havent awakened! Laws are just somebody's opinions.

I'm done. It's been 3 days since it happened, or to be more precise - nothing happened. I feel like a newborn. Everything looks the same, but has a different quality, it's perceived from a different place. I had all the wrong ideas about enlightenment. I idealized it too much, I thought it'd be like all the mystical states I've had, but that's not true. It's just true perception, that's all. Nothing can be gained from it or lost from it. It also doesn't change anything, since it's always been that way, but it changes everything because one's life is finally put into proper perspective. At first I couldn't believe it was happening, but it was so obviously true. Where did all my suffering go? Where did all my fears go? Where did my identity go? Where did the spiritual seeker go? Anger, boredom, loneliness? Turns out that ALL of it were fictions of the mind, never had any reality in the first place. Yesterday I read some entries from my journal and it all seems like a distant memory, even though I was suffering so badly just a week ago. All I can see now are delusions on top of delusions, all imaginary, all self inflicted. Ego loves to suffer, loves to struggle, loves to be in conflict, it's what keeps it alive . Ego is created and maintained through huge, constant effort. That's what blew my mind. The awakened state isn't extraordinary, the egoic paradigm is. That delusion is a piece of art, a masterpiece! The distinction between life and death is gone, I saw I just made it up. The distinction between external and interal is gone. It was a belief I adopted. The distinction between me and other is gone, ofcourse being a fantasy. This awakening build over the years. This tension build over years just to be destroyed. It couldn't be any other way for me. The best thing that could happen to a self is no self. Nothing can get to that which I am. I am completely untouchable, unborn, undying, Mu, Brahman, Kim Jong Un etc. This 'life' is so complete and so perfect beyond imagination. Any idea of a lack is a fantasy. I'm still getting used to this new way of being. And yeah, I feel peaceful all the time, gurus were right about that. There is clearity and a simple, effortless flow. As a side effect there is also a calling for serving others, wanting to love and help them without an agenda. Even though this awakening was so complete and perfect,I know there's deeper to go. In many ways I'm done, but I'm also just beginning. SDS effects are over and post awakening Sadhana begins.

@Shin @Emne tbh i dont care for sex that much, i wouldnt mind dying a "virgin". as long as i live awakened, idc

But your brain has control over your body. And you are your brain too. So at the same time you have control. But there is no chooser or controller. It's much complicated than just saying you don't have control or not. It could not be understood intellectually until you get fully awakened. You will know that it will be impossible to articulate your experience. Saying - you don't have control is confusing lots of people who are still sleeping... I suggest you not to mention it like that.