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Let me put it this way: possibly as one becomes more awakened there are less thoughts, but it's not a necessary condition. Frankly, an enlightened person just doesn't give a shit about whatever arises. It's all natural, including thoughts, including negative emotions, and there's no "hook" to attach to any of it. So it doesn't matter what comes up. There's no need for it to be any different than what it is. That's the major difference.

@Haumea2018Would you say the more awakened someone is the less thoughts arise? @Jack Riverfragmentation = identification with thoughts = psychological time?

@Jack RiverYou do not feel the state of "flow" in sports borders the "awakened" state? Muscle memory does not require any thought processes I feel "flow" is exactly this....complete detachment from self (no fears, no objectives, detachment from outcome, and no other thoughts) possible in all creative activities

He has been at 1000 for ten years, I think, and has been psychic for decades. And as Leo said, even if the number is off by 1, does it make any difference? It's still in a certain stage with certain observable characteristics. It's funny how people on the forum are reacting to the map, like it's some kind of an ego trip or something. I assure you nobody fully awakened is going around thinking "yeah, I'm at 1000, I'm better than you at 580." It's more like "when are you going to reach 1000 already?" Wake up, damn you! 'Cause at 1000 it's painfully obvious what the other person is doing to prevent themselves from awakening and if anything it's frustrating.

Let me tell you a story. The Awakened One does not make assumptions. The Awakened one has Evolved from the Sleeping Self that only sees as far as he is. He Knows ALL and Sees ALL perfectly of the old way/self/selves. A 3D world understands fully a 2D world, A 2D world does not even know of a 3D to begin to understand. Ultimately, there are no right or wrongs but the fact that it disturbed your peace indicates denial of truth behind the matter itself. Never confuse Natural with good or bad, Natural always comes first. This will make sense as you evolve. All the best

Interesting thing about awakening,prior to it, I had never read a religious scripture,esoteric writing or philosophy text in my life. Mostly because it didn't make much since and I assumed most,if not all of it,to be written based on myth and philosophy. After awakening I started looking into some of these writings and texts and, surprisingly, found I could understand the bulk of what was being said. From the eastern writings like the vedas, upanishads, baghavad gita, tao te ching, etc.,- to the christian mystics,NT bible,western esoteric writings etc., I haven't looked at the Quran,but from these writings and text's I have looked into, they all carry very similar messages about the "Reality" or "God." The reason,and what can only be the reason, imo, is the ones who wrote or delivered those words in spoken and written form were speaking from an awakened and/or realized state. Not some made up philosophy or religion,which they were later turned into. Undoubtedly there is also the mix of myth and metaphor as well, depending on the culture in which they were written,but the central messages and themes are very similar across the board in reference to God or Reality.

There definitely can be a position of power which can be abused by the 'guru' but I'm not going to assume that's what is going on. People who have followers/fans/students and the like have to be cautious about the dynamic between them and sure to not abuse that power they have. In the situation of a guru like persona who claims some enlightened state they should not be slaves to the selfish desire even if there are desires that still manifest. I have found in my own experience that in the most awakened states there aren't any desires that arise in me....but I don't make any claim of anything.

@Scholar Those are some good questions. My mind wants to simplify the issue. Yet, it's very nuanced and complex as you are finding. You wrote: "But then when I look at the suffering there is something about it that I cannot explain in words that makes it seem like it is bad. I just can't articulate it, but then there is also something that makes it seem like just another experience, that I cannot articulate either." I go through this a lot. Perhaps it's a paradox. For example, sometimes "spirituality" seems so impersonal. There is no "I". The true "me" is one with everything. There is nothing to do than to be in the present moment. It's so amazingly simple. Yet, it also seems so personal. The spiritual journey feels deeply personal. My direct experience feels personal. There is a desire to grow and evolve. What if we stepped away from the term "bad"? And thought of suffering as energy. There are many forms of energy. Suffering seems like a seeking energy. An energetic yearning for a different present moment. Perhaps the seeking energy can be mild or it can be very strong. When I see an animal experiencing pain, they don't seem to have the same type of seeking energy as humans. They seem to be experiencing the pain in the present moment and may avoid the source of the pain. Yet, they don't seem to have the same type of yearning and struggling as humans. The sense of powerless and loss of control. The thinking about how things could be better if only such-and-such happens. Have you listened to awakened spiritual teachers on suffering? That might shed some insight. I've never done a solo retreat. Yet, boredom over extended periods and not being able to leave would likely lead to a degree of suffering for me. Yet, it probably wouldn't cause any permanent harm.

i agreee eckhart's was spontaneous.. i think depending on the teacher, and what their path was like... it is all reflected in their teaching also i think that a lof of the gurus refer to the simplicity of seeing thru the illusion but it's only really AFTER the fact that they say this i dont think they are deliousion, far from it lol - i dont even need to say this but when they say, or eckhart says IT IS HERE NOW! just NOW. simply NOW it's easy for them to see it as they are speaking from that place of NOW vs the rest of us could be a billion miles away from the NOW (billion mental illusory miles) but yeah. i agree with you. the work that needs to be put in is massive it's no easy task especially since it is a sub-task for most of us, unless we can , like Leo, work towards making a life purpose in which we end up working in this field of study and making a living to be able to continue to do this work and not worry about paying the bills my goal personally is somehow winnging the lotto (using mind/law of attraction/positive vibes to get that lol) and then after lotto, meditate away and enjoy and go deeper into it i am not after the money (or so i think now, hopefully i wont change after getting the money) but yeah. i am after the freedom which money will give me which allows me to do this work uninterrupted or worrying a guru would tell me here, i am just setting up this obstacle for myself to delay the work which needs to be done. but from my full time work job which i very much need if i need to survive on the month-month bills i got. i cant bring myself to full dive into it... and the next thing i know is i have lost my mind and cannot work anymore and then lose my house/job/car lotto > freedom > eventual enlightment LETS GET THAT MONEY SO IT CAN GET ME ENLIGHTMENT SO THEN I CAN LOOK BACK AS ALL AWAKENED SOULS DO AND GO LIKE WOOAH. WAS "I" A CRAZY LIL NUT OR WAAT?

We have to be really careful with this though. haha I used to be a Christian and this sounds like my dad when he would say "They aren't true Christians." due to the things someone would say. With Bodhisattva's, the definition is "a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings.". Bodhisattva's are tricky characters because they may not necessary speak about awakening with the public, but they know of it in their inner life. They are not necessarily obvious and outspoken in the way that maybe Eckhart Tolle or Alan Watts are. It's through small Freudian slips and pointers that make you realize "oh, maybe this guy or girls is awake but is just hiding it because they think it would be more effective if they did." Jordan Peterson comes across to me as a Christian mystic , who might have awakened haha, who is trying to bridge the gap between Christianity and science. And he needs to tread really carefully with this. When a friend or a coworker seems to be having a problem, I do not speak to them about non-duality. In many of my social circles, I do not think it would be helpful to push people towards "awakening". Sometimes the next best step is to help people within the dream and give them a sense of relief within the dream. Which I think Jordan Peterson seems to be doing. haha But you are right, I do need to take Peterson off the pedestal I put him on though. And maybe I have rose colored glasses on when I watch his videos. And I need to be more critical about his work.

@GafaRassaDaba That sounds like a really rough entry and I feel for you. You must have been pretty open minded before the trip, to have such a glimpse. I hope you can remain open minded. As you’ve already experienced, sometimes what you know most, turns out to be opposite, and sometimes the depth makes precisely that difference. Psychadelics are a throw of the dice, I wouldn’t rule them out & assume you’ve digested the big picture, but I would look into some daily practices & theory to build a foundation first. As an analogy, I feel like you saw the photo, and now as you experience more, and surrender, let it settle, the details come more into focus, making all the difference. Some find freedom in infinity, some find unification in no-self, some find inner peace in love, some an effortlessness & synchronicity in their days. All of this is for you too. All of it. So if you can empty the cup again, there’s more. The one thing we can’t do, is filter now, through a lens of the past, through a memory, through a projection. That, begins the weaving of an “I” which “knows”. On a more personal, and relative note - Yogananda was awakened as a fetus. You might be one of those rare birds born with high consciousness, but not yet aware of this. There may very well be a GafaRassaDaba sized map in this yet.

A Bodhisattva is someone who has awakened. That ain't JP.

I think and feel like you. I hate this society, the system, the rat-race slavery and how dumb are people are nowadays. And in the future, according the elites agenda to only be one mixed race, more dumb, easily governable, zombies of instant gratification. Sometimes I think I dont want to have children to make them struggle in this modern slavery of agressive competition and, mainstream conditioning and indoctrination. I also feel alone and misunderstood, Im not interested of my friends, like you say they are like dogs. I'd like to have awakened friends like me and have interesting . The key to feel better is gratitude. Life is a gift and experiencing it as pure awareness living a human experience seeing, tasting, smelling, breathing is sacred and beautiful.

@sgn It's got nothing to do with reality or facts. If you get triggered, that's ALL you! It's all about how your mind is failing to understanding the complexities of reality, denying reality. The reality is, people eat animals and you don't like it. That's not the world's problem, that's your problem. Don't project it on them. Own it. Triggering is never in the situation, it's in YOUR interpretation of the situation. If you were fully awakened, Hitler himself torturing kittens would not trigger you.

ive also had a paranormal experience (seeing a ghost or spirit) for context im 20 years old and have never had any similar experiences until I had an awakening and started meditating this year so i can say that in my experience there are other 'realms' which can be perceived in our own i have a speculation or intuition that these experiences only happen to those who are not afraid (or in other words those who are awakened to some degree). but im just speculating

Yes, that's what i feel, but I don't want to push her, like i am a needy person,. Ajasatya said i must be healthy, I don't know how to react in a healthy way,. I understand mind because our job here is self awareness, i know minds are not working like that, being numb? And you don't feel any emotions anymore? Is imposible right??? Unless you are awakened i guess? Maybe i'm wrong, i promise to myself I don't want a girl in my life because i'm just fixing my life situation to have money, because i am not ready , but I can't keep that promise hahah!! I don't want to repress my sexuality for the sake of my problem.. yes sexuality is an illusion but right now i have that right now

For me, it was important to let go of my conventional understanding of the terms. The conventional use of the term "everything" includes things outside of other things. Example: The house fire destroyed everything (in the house). In common language, we don't use the term "everything" to *really* mean everything. Rather, we mean every - thing (every individual thing) that we separate out from other things. Here, we mean every individual object inside the house. This is a very limited use of "everything" as it doesn't include any-thing outside of the house. If someone said "The house fire destroyed everything" - we assume this doesn't *really* mean everything. Just the every single thing in the house. When someone who is awakened to this uses the term "everything" it can seem odd because the listener has never heard it used in this context and has never themself used the term in this context. There has always been a limit to everything and one could conceive of some-thing outside of everything. Yet here, we really, really do mean everything. No limits. No "I like everything", "everything she cooks. . .". We mean everything with no limit or condition. If it really is everything, then all individual things are included in everything. ALL things are within everything. This is a radically different way to use the term. . . Here, there is no - thing (no individual thing) outside of every - thing. So, every-thing is no-thing. Now, the term "everything" doesn't make conventional sense, so some people may use other terms like absolute infinity rather than absolutely everything.

Ok, Hi I am new on this forum, I have been doing self inquiry, mantra mediation & strong determination sitting for about a year now, the longest I've ever sat for is (2 hours & 5 minutes strong sit) i have a some questions for everyone. shinzen young has a video out its about 17 minutes, saying it's one of the fastest way to enlightenment, but in another interview he said he didn't become enlightened this way it was through self inquiry that really drove the nail home for him . But he also said that with the strong Sits that the pain went away & it became quiet? & that pain didn't hurt anymore so what is that like the 1st phase on enlightenment? Also after enlightenment do you still dream? Also is enlightenment the end of all anxiety? Also thank you Leo Gura for starting this forum you have helped me out during the worst times of my life, as well as Adyashanti, Echart, shinzen young & many other awakened/ liberated people. ?

Hell yeah MDMA is great, especially in a setting like this. Its an experience that everyone should have at least once. Can almost guarantee that you will experience infinity on it. The stuff awakened me.

@SoonHei For me, an initial stage was to observe thoughts and realize I am not a thought. There is something aware of the thought. Yet, this awareness is no-thing. It is not any particular thing, so not a thing. My current stage is getting to know that awareness. Awakened beings I’ve listened to suggest the next stage is a realization that consciousness/awareness is everything. There is no separation. My mind likes to intellectualize it as a concept, yet I don’t experience it in my direct experience. I see me here and the table over there. I’ve found vision is overwhelmingly object-space oriented. However, I’ve found sound is MUCH weaker at this. For me, this has been a next step after I’ve had the witnessing of thoughts. The realization came with a bird chirp, yet works for any sound. One day while meditating, with my eyes closed, a thought arose in my mind and I obseved it. Then something else (a sound) arose in my mind and I observed it. Prior to giving either of them any meaning, I noticed both appearances were remarkably similar. Like *really* similiar. I saw how my brain was conditioned to define the appearance as a bird chirp that occurrd outside of my self. Yet in my direct experience, the appearance of the thought and chirp were both in awareness. There was no inside vs outside. When I let go and just observed the two appearances, it’s hard to observe differences. I need to *add* on meaning / identification to create the experience of relevance and separation. In a relative, personal world, thoughts about my career, life purpose, ethics etc will seem to have more relevance than a trivial bird chirp. Yet, if I really get down to their substance I sense something else. I can enter this space only with sounds and my eyes closed in meditation. Vision has a much deeper object - space orientation.

@MrDmitriiV Everyone's path is different. Lots of people get awakened even without meditating much, practicing yoga, knowing about chakras, taking psychedelics, etc. Use other's teachings as suggestions, not requirements. I personally had the shift while self-inquiring guided by Leo in his Creating an Experience of No-self video and never had to do/try anything else after that.

@Chrissy j I'm in the process of awakening. Based on how I resonate with awakened speakers, I'd say I've turned a corner and am at an immature stage of awakening. I'm at a stage where there is a sense of an "I am" that is free from, and aware of, all aspects of "the person". All feelings, thoughts, memories, the life story, opinions, beliefs, concepts etc. It is aware of all the conditioning my person has undergone. It is attached to none of it. This "I am" is totally neutral / empty and does not identify with "the person". It is no thing. However, the person keeps returning with various levels of identification. Sometimes there is nearly complete identification with the person, sometimes there is virtually no identification - and also everything in-between. I realized millions of years of evolution and a lifetime of non-stop social conditioning has created this person and it seems like it will take some time to recondition into my true nature. Recently, this "I am" has become aware of itself leading to an energetic shift. The seeking energy has dissolved. A new energy wanting to be the "I am" consciousness is emerging. There is a sense there the person can no longer return to how it was. A sense this "I am" will continue this process. I have found it's MUCH easier to de-identify with the person when the person is relaxed. Meditation, traditional yoga, kriya yoga etc. can help settle down the person and allow space. As well, psychology and personal development can help relax the person. Learning about why my person experiences anxiety, fear, jealousy etc. Observing how my character grasps at pleasure and avoids being uncomfortable. Learning how to sit and be still when my person is uncomfortable and wants to escape. All this promotes a more balanced, relaxed person, which allows for deeper revelations to appear.

I don't know how many people awakened on this forum , or had a glimpse of enlightenment ... But where do you think reality takes place really ? Does it exist only when you perceive it , or is it existing even if no one is perceiving it ? for exemple, does a rock exist when no one is here to perceive it ? how do we define the reality of something , if that something isn't perceived or measured ?

strangely so this is again a paradoxal showcase of how spirituality functions those who are more in non-duality tend to paradoxally over-identify with others your enlightenment is not another one's enlightenment guru's show the way but they are only guru's to those who are unawakened whats gonna happen when we're all awakened? we'll all be like buddha? nu-uh, life is infinity, it is more, not less you are completely unique now, what makes you think that attaining a higher vibration will make you more similar to anyone? enlightenment means higher vibration, even more unique then ever before your enlightenment has nothing to do with mine or any guru, that is what makes it so exciting and wonderful guru's only show the way to yourself, whats inside is yours to discover, and it seems like you have a divine vision over being enlightenment in a completely new way, thats awesome guru's are merely friends trying to point the way, they are not better buddha is not better, sadghuru is not better, not mooji not anyone else on this planet is better or worth more, only when we know that truth may we start listening to what is being said to help us

Ive just had another moment of awareness, putting things into perspective. It feels like in daily life I am caught up in an pseudo-awakened alter ego and totally clouded, totally filled with concepts and beliefs, so clouded that it makes me depressed. An ego with stories around awakening, feelings and experiences that are clearly mind filtered. That is the default state of my mind. I begin doubting, feeling like I just pretend things happened a certain way when they actually were just mind-distorted so I could put them into words. I look at this self and it is so far away from reality. It makes me absurdly sad, very very sad looking how deep I fell. And yet I am still unconsciously always caught up in it. Pls take me out of it, this realization is very heartbreaking somehow. I have already had such realization where I cried because I realized how unconsciously deep I fell without even noticing it driving me to the point of thinking about suicide. This poor soul just didnt know it better because it got dragged away in the mind's stream of stories. That is probably the reason I have no clear sense of self - it is so clouded and manipulated by the mind.