Search the Community

Depends how deep your enlightenment is. It will definitely help. But you'll require a lot more additional work beyond your first enlightenment experience. Years and years, thousands and thousands of hours. But on the bright side, you got nothing better to do, so why not get started? In the meantime, learn to enjoy your suffering. That's all enlightenment will really teach you in the end: how to enjoy being. The deep awareness of the suffering of duality is an important step towards the peace of nonduality. Keep noticing how much you suffer, over and over again.

I'm not trying to enter into right or wrong debate here, or enter into any religious dogmatic talk whatsoever, but I wanted to take a spirituality dimension to connecting my Christian upbringing to the new Buddhist principles I'm reading. Could the two teachings be mapped like this? Nonduality = spirit Consciousness = mind Emptiness/Awareness = body Absolute Truth = God Attachment to ego = sin I know they are different religions, but I'm trying to see the overlapping similarities between the two so I can integrate what I'm learning together. Let me know what you think Please be mindful and respect Leo's guidelines in this is not a forum to assert religious dogma

Thanks! It's nice seeing you and some others I recognize posting around. I'll still post and ponder, just... I'm making a move to shift the focus and frequency of that study and contemplation. I removed my avatar because I'm working on focusing on my existence rather than my identity. The purpose of this thread's posting was half for the sake of me "feeling" the finality of a decisional shift, but also to get my thoughts on the forum so anyone who is interested in hearing the perspective has an opportunity to be a critic tbh my presence on the net will be more noticed on the other sites I frequent moreover than on this one. I dunno how often I've been posting here but I will still visit this site once in a day or in two at least, but for less time and with less posting. but I couldn't express my purpose in this shift on the other sites and like I said. I enjoy thinking through conversation pondering existence as if we can know it, or as if our experience of it can become better or more true. mmhm yea this I suppose this concept has many facets to it and I've found a new one. I was at first thinking "wow lookit this I can find authenticity and tell my ego to go away and find new ways to more often and more fullly see existence as infinite and without self and I can ponder who "I" am but then I realized - oh. There is no self, but perception. there is no infinity, but that which I cannot know. These things are the yin and yang. as long as I see one, the other is there too. I do not need to find the other, because all finding it reveals is that the one I see now is no more untrue than the one I cannot see. but the duality will always be an inherent necessity in the nonduality. I think this is along the line of my thinking - that I was trying to be just like Leo. I wanted to be like him - even though I continued on knowing that I was "me" and not him on anyone else here - I wanted to follow Leo's path and follow the path others have laid out. And now I see the path that lies before me, which is not their path, and is not a copy of their path. it is not "mine" per se so much as it is the steps I am taking. it's so weird saying "I" and "me" and "mine" lol. The understanding of these words I hold in my head, but it does not get held in the word itself.

I have always been a person who pursues self-improvement and that will never change. And I find Leo's work and similar videos inspiring, and will continue to both practice mindfulness, self-reflection, and youtube as a resource, for increasing my capabilities in life. But I don't find there to be much merit in the pursuit of direct meditation habit, searching for enlightenment, nonduality, or Leo's idea of authenticity and self-actualization, not for me. I'm looking for some people to respond to my thought on it. Basically, I've found a loss of meaning in what is done - whether I find enlightenment many ways, or am a person who is trapped in the lower self, nothing about the universe or existence itself changes in anyway. it is only a change in perspective - and this change in perspective is not something I really want. it's nice Leo's video of the 10 things you want but don't know it - but I just don't really find much meaning in "Wanting" or "desires" and whenever I say that I "want" a thing it is always just a decision. I want to relax, aka, I will now take the day off. Sure there are emotional drives that I notice - but in the end I always am making a conscious decision in these acts. What I intend to pursue regarding those is cultivating my focus and my mindfulness in the moment. Some times I may meditate as a way to increase these, but the habit I will form regarding meditation is mindfulness in the moment, or short breaks of self-observation or meditation, or a short break of a kind of intuitive release. something in a video I saw about allowing the mind to wander. so I will be using meditation as-needed, not as a habit. most often I will just lay down and nap, or if I'm on the work, take a walk outside. these are not "meditation" lol! but there is a way to make them like meditation, and that's what I'd be working on. The thing about nonduality and the authentic self - chasing that accomplishes what, enlightenment? I trust that enlightenment would be a great thing, and maybe later in life I will pursue it. but now - there are more pressing things in my life - and that is the thing. even in nonduality there is duality. (and even in duality there is nonduality) I was thinking about this before, and I've self-observed minimally, the other day. And as I sat in self-observation this morning I noticed a curious thing - when my eyes are open I see rich imagery, and when my eyes are closed I see no imagery at all. I do not fabricate images when my eyes are closed. this is something I always knew but - the point is, even if I find the enlightened perspective of how I really understand how all things are as one, infinity, nothingness, however you wish to call it. We go on living life as normal, just with a new perspective. Pursuing that is necessarily an endeavor of ego and duality! and even if we had a perfectly nondual perspective, there is necessarily a vibration of energy however way we theorize it which creates the illusions of duality and that won't change. I will not in my life find a situation where I'm a monk meditating all day in order to be as authentic as possible - in fact if I wished to be as authentic as possible I would just decopose as quickly as possible - but I do not do that because the splash of dual existence is nothing in comparison to infinity, that the true authentic path is to allow my splash to naturally unfold. our duality is itself the authentic nature of existence. and my splash does not follow a path towards monk-dom, and now I find it does not seek enlightenment. I do not really know what the ego is - in my perspective, ego and duality are one and the same. after all, all things are nondual in the end - the duality is just the illusion - right? but even that cannot be known. it's advised that nonduality can be directly experienced and witnessed - but so can the duality. I heard recently a person say, "what is "Real" in meaning? it is just an honorary title." and he said something about how in quantum mechanics, we call one thing or the other thing real but both realities are equally valid. This falls the same with duality v nonduality. both are valid. and if I were to fully pursue nonduality to be as nondual as possible - I would be discarding the dual existence that it so convincing. as I've mentioned before in this post - my perspective at hand is that in infinity my splash on the "consciousness field" so to speak is irrelevant - the perspective shifts create flow and being - and I can work on those without needing to dump my efforts into nonduality and enlightenment. through mindfulness, and being. It is not necessary for me to sit and contemplate enlightenment and nonduality, in order to exercise my ability to be present and aware. and in my limited life I will not reach the level of enlightenment of a monk - I will have significant dual existence, and it is more to my merit to work on making my dual existence one in the present moment, strategic, and aware. Sometimes I will meditate. sometimes I will self-observe. sometimes I will contemplate existence. but mostly I will practice mindfulness in the active moments. I will work on flow and focus and strategy, and work on negotiating my emotions so that they are no more than an experience, and not a tide which consumes my being. I will work on my practical skills beyond these - my skills of cooking, minimal lifestyle, employment. not in the immediate moment and future, but I will find life purpose both in work and in casual pursuit - maybe they will even tie into each other or be one and the same - but right now my "life purpose" is becoming self-sustainable within the next five years - not a 20-year goal - but it is what motivates me. I may be focusing my current efforts on picking myself out of my chair. walking to a new place. laying my hands upon some object. and manipulating in. this is what I've found to get me moving in an effective way - along with the various paradigm shifts which allowed me to focus on my work in this way. but by no means is this an enlightened decision. by no means is this "the final shift" by no means do I think I will stop self-improving, and self-actualization completely, just because I found a certain perspective that leads to this decision. But the path I am following is not the path of enlightenment and nonduality. it is a path of duality. and this is the path I follow. I feel that I have always been more in touch with intuition than the others around me. I do not know for sure what "intuition" means or how to truly tell that my ideas come from intuition instead of logic. and IMO - intuition and logic are like yin and yang - one cannot exist without the other. but I feel as if I am following intuition on several levels. and I know that logic is a part of my decision. But I do not feel that this is a decision of Ego. well - like I said - it is because ego is really just all of duality. but I have in the past been strongly swayed by my ego, but in this moment - I am swayed by intuition. maybe it is an intuitive response to a logical clinging onto duality. but I cannot just up and discard my duality - which means I will have restricted resources, or even wither away and die, if I try to focus on nonduality in my present life situation. I need to improve my dual existence first before it can even be worth pursuing enlightenment and nonduality - and I won't even pretend to carry on the assumption that that "will" happen later - that would be holding onto ego Thank you for allowing me to type this out. speaking and righting is another form of thinking and processing. I also look forward to any and all responses to my expressions here. and while I will minimize my forum use both here and elsewhere in the future - they consume me with ego, forums. I find it too distracting and too much of an influence on my emotional consumption -which is something I am working to minimize. so be it. but I will not kill my forum use outright - after all, expressing is a form of thinking, and the dual experience of the Other is an extension of my self that I must not sever off

I'm going to reply to my own topic to extend what I've said, from a different angle: If we are in absolute terms not our ego, and are a zero neutral dimensionless empty awareness field (I'll just call empty awareness from now on) where conscious qualia expresses itself, then it could be said that 'self' as we know it and identify with is not real. i.e. the practice of not self. So this means that what we identify with, such as objects of perception (such as our body) and feelings etc are not us, but our true nature is the empty awareness that we project out of, which through nonduality principals is the timeless and spaceless essence that we all share in common. So this then goes onto say that anything we experience is not us, and we should cling to it, but from a conventional point of view we are our ego, so survival is based on accepting this egoic projection as real, but the teachings say don't cling to it and think that our ego is really real or the absolute truth. Hence our perceived inner world and outer world is the same projection but categorised and labelled differently for sake of self-sustaining agenda by our ego minds with sole purpose as survival. We need to understand this to let it go. And when we let it go we can't escape it but we can at least put it in perspective. This means that in reality there is no really real distinction between our inner and outer world - and what goes on in both is just as real as each other, hence why the teachings emphasize 'thinking' and 'emotions' are just as important as 'speech' and 'actions'. Where I'm heading with this is then the association with 'integrity'. I have found 'integrity' or 'authenticity' requires the realisation that no inner world exists, i.e. dis-identification with a 'private world'. Hence we connect and take seriously the fact that what we have in our minds is absolutely connected with our outside world, hence no secrets, hidden emotions, thoughts that are not aligned to reality, guilt, feelings that are different to what you would show the outside world. Now, when this happens, isn't that called 'presence'. Can't you achieve that state when being 'mindful'. But, it's the next level. It's living like that. Now, it doesn't mean revealing your private life to everyone, and definately doesn't mean acting out your impulses, but it does mean when things arise that are unwholesome to let them go, and if they repeat it's about taking responsibility to see where they arise from and sorting out any latent incompleteness that is causing the thought that doesn't have integrity. I've started living this way and I have seen real shifts in how much 'integrity' has helped me be more mindful, present, finding inner peace and to be more genuine. It's helped me feel more connected with others and myself and reality. I'm interested in any questions or other views that people have on this. Am I just re-creating practices that are already out there? Is this new take on Not Self, NonDuality and Integrity that I'm practicing? Does anyone else do this? Am I making sense? haha

Hi there, im really getting into practical applications of nonduality and ideas of not self and the well being achieved when practicing these perspectives. Here is a clip on nonduality I found useful: I'm interested in any other clips, resources or posts anyone would like to share. Peace

We have to make assumptions all the time - I find the trick is to keep going back to re-evaluate them... I suppose an important question here is what you mean by 'real', when you refer to denying what is being observed as real. I cannot deny that there is a sensation. Does it definitely mean that this means there is a physical object out in a 'real world', which is a separate plane of reality from my experienced consciousness, and the sensation seen is created by electro-chemical signals in a brain, which has been stimulated by photons hitting the retinas in the back of my eye, which have come from a light source and rebounded some but not all of their visible wavelength... It's not so much denying real, it's questioning what is real, and checking how much is assumed/believed/taken for granted. In the case of seeing, I will NEVER in my life encounter that 'real' world. But it's so deeply ingrained in me that the 'real' world exists, that I don't even think about it - in fact any suggestion that things are otherwise is received as preposterous. But why? My experience is the sensation, not the 'real' world which I 'know' (read: believe) is out there... Just denying things isn't really of any use. But really recognising the foundations upon which my understanding/knowledge/belief is based, and then testing those foundations... that's an interesting game. "Duality is nonduality in a way". Interesting phrase. It ties in with something that I've been butting against recently: I keep trying to imagine some other place, plane, or experience as the ending point of the search. But of course that's not the case. It's this, here, now, so in many ways duality is nonduality. It's the same thing, the exact same thing, just seen in a critically different manner. Gateless gate

Maybe I am making assumptions but often it seems as if the nature of duality is to deny what is being observed as real. but such an approach is like taking the black shadow out of yin and yang. it is still there. duality is nonduality in a way. nonduality is duality in a way. there's not really a good way for me to explain this that I know of! isn't that curious :3 I don't know what to say. and I don't even know how to think of it. hehehe....

I guess then really the question I am asking is. why is enlightenment not just an transcendent mask of ego? losing perception of a thing is only a lack of object permanence. What really is Ego but a sense of self - and what is nonduality but a sense of self? letting go doesn't cease the existence of the object - only the attachment to it. But both the Sage who speaks his mind shows he is attached by his insistence to share it - and the Sage who holds silent shows he is attached by adhering to the principal he imagines up to explain things away. Thought is not limited to words and images and sensation. Awareness is thought too. literal being is thought, as we can experience it. Experience itself is the ego - It has been recommended to be in the moment, to be aware of the direct experience without judgement without allowing the rational mind to rationalize the experience. I do not deny the inherent meaning in such an activity - but it is like in quantum mechanics - the measurement itself changes the existence. True existence is necessarily unknowable - because knowing AKA direct experience is limiting existence to a measurable state. awareness is our most authentic tool of measuring the world around us - but measurement itself is why duality "exists" = measurement itself results from the "influence" of ego. in a certain way, "true" or however you name it - enlightenment is in ceasing to be aware altogether. we cannot escape our existence - only transcend it - and to transcend it does not leave the existence behind in any way. that existence is still there. to return to the discussion at hand - we name certain thoughts and experiences. in this way we create duality. Both in asking if he glimpsed nothingness, and in answering - we all have forced the topic to be about somethingness. Nothingness cannot be remembered - and we cannot be aware of it. There would be no experience in nothingness - and no sensory input - no awareness - no consciousness - no body and no mind. Nothing that we can imagine* can be nothingness - we can't even look at it sideways with our periphery. I am not yet familiar with the neti-neti method. but any method is not nothingness. this is not to say that we are futile to attempt to pretend to glimpse at it - but instead the intention is to reveal the practicality in releasing the need to ask if we've got it. the answer will always be no. It is only something we learn from in pursuit of, but never something we reach - and if we believe we've reached it, we are fooling ourself by means of ego. *or be

I've just been heavily involved in the last year or two on the studies, meditation and practices of attaining the perspective of "not-self" and more recently "non-duality", which seem to be highly inter-linked from my understanding. I have learnt to apply a more sharper and heightened definition of the word "integrity" which seems to be a kind of glue to the concepts that can be directly applied to the practice to make the direct experience of 'not-self' and in particular 'non-duality' all the more real. So firstly, given the breadth of each of these subjects, let me outline what I mean to be clear by giving a short definition of what I'm specifically referring to, then it would be interested to hearing your thoughts: 1. not-self: the very fact that our awareness and perceptions within our awareness is an also all that makes us up human experience. Perceptions come and go and are continuously changing. Also, that we are neither an independent object of our awareness and perceptions. So, we are a bundle of experience that is not us but that we can't seperate from. 2. non-duality: our individual subjective experience is everything, yet nothing at the same time. Awareness is all encompassing for the 'self' but for awareness to exist, then outside awareness needs to exist, which is 'nothing'. This oneness with our perceptions, and the duality between a unified subjective experience and the 'nothingness' behind the scene, is the connection point that we all seem to share. It's impossible for unity or duality to explain the whole picture but taken in balance of egoic self referential agenda and the all pervasive nothingness that all of our awarenesses are embedded in, then we arrive at a complete picture. 3. Integrity: is an alignment between our "internal" and "external" world. If the divide between our internal and external world doesn't really exist given the existential framework of nothingness that it resides within and the fact that not-self asserts that there is really no external 'self' viewing the external world in the first place. So the one single reality exists for all of us must be aligned to satisfy both not-self and non-duality, given that there is a hard assertion that there isn't a divide in the first place! As a clearer example, this is clearly experienced when one practices 'mindfulness' or 'presence', when they concentrate on an object and then their inner world drops and they are just there with the object as one, but neither seperate or believing they are the object they are considering. So the reason as to why I see integrity as an important playing card in applying this approach, is because if you don't consider a private world to exist and there is complete harmony between one's perceived internal and external world, then one is more honest and at no disharmony with themselves and their environment, including others.

No No, we moved just before the collapse because my Dad was doing business here. So much to do, so little time. It's real. Lots of opportunity there which I don't have time to explore right now. 1) I've always been full of spiritual creativity. Maybe I earned it in a past life? I dunno. 2) That would be a whole course. 3) I believe I mentioned that in the life purpose course. I'm familiar with it, but haven't studied it deeply. Occult traditions are definitely grounded in reality, although often laden with much needless fantasy. You have to follow your heart, whatever that might mean. But regardless, do start a daily meditation practice. Don't be so black and white in your thinking. You can work on several things at once. Neither of those. Meditation is about BEING and perceiving accurately. Low consciousness pleasure pale in comparison to high consciousness pleasures. Not even close. It's sorta like asking, "Why don't you punch yourself in the face?" Because it's painful. It varies. Some weeks a lot, some weeks not at all. It doesn't matter when. You guys certainly do confuse and distract each other. But that's the nature of public discussion, so a large degree of that must be tolerated. Everyone has their own growth curve. It annoys and saddens me when people start debates about nonduality or the like, or act ideologically. I feel pity for their ignorance. Systems thinking Chaos theory Cosmology Linguistics Ecology Public policy issues Marketing & business History of West and East Physics Biology Evolution Psychology Sociology Art history Philosophy Epistemology Religious traditions Occult traditions Nutrition History of war & dictatorship Hypnosis Channeling Astral travel Mathematics, set theory, category theory, topology Other cultures Etymology Zoology, animals, naturalism Geology Paleontology Archeology Etc. When you meditate, just sit totally naturally and focus all attention on being. Don't manipulate the breathe. If you want to work on your breathing, do that separately. Meditation is about surrender. Stop manipulating so much. It really varies. Depends on my mood and level of energy and attention. Some days, lots of monkey mind. Other days, still lots of thoughts arise, but it can feel like I'm on a very low dose of mushrooms. Much progress has been made on the book, but it's all just research notes at this point. Don't hold your breath, it probably won't be released for another 5 years. It's not your typical self-help book. Get enlightened. Nothing else really matters. Of course, it's fucking TERRIBLE! Way worse than you ever, ever, ever imagined. Medication is highly ineffective at treating mental illness. It almost never addresses the true root cause, and often makes things much worse. Psychedelics are an exception. They ARE exceptionally effective when used properly. I answer this in the life purpose course. Yes 26, I think. I was too busy for sex. Wasn't a high priority for me (although I do enjoy it a lot).

@Bodhi123 Just as long as you acknowledge that YOU create all your suffering, and that you could stop creating it, then fine. You ARE creating all your suffering, including physical pain. And you can stop doing it. This requires new levels of consciousness. The Absolute level and the relative level are identical (at the Absolute level) There is absolutely no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment. But me telling you doesn't help you much. It only confuses you. Which is good, I guess, if you embrace the confusion and don't stop doing the work. If you use any of these discussions to stop doing the work, you've failed and ego has won. And if you just keep doing the work, you don't need any of these discussions, as they mostly just slow you down. Nonduality is a bitch (for duality)

@LiakosN Everyone knows about his books, so there's little use in me promoting them. I also find them watered-down nonduality. There are much better nonduality books. Although a lot of people do love his books.

Meditate on the Meditator.

@unknownworld Nonduality includes duality. Absolute Infinity subdivides in infinite ways. Universalized consciousness is individualizing and "living" through specific forms which are different creatures.

If one were to have a nondual dream, how would that be experienced? I'm confused on why dreams are only dualistic https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/about/nonduality/ By this definition, I have had multiple nondual dreams. Could be wrong, though.

Funny coincidence, I have a blog post lined up on this topic. Good example of science done right. Sophia University is one of the few holistic, transpersonal psychology programs around. Although it doesn't sound like they really grasp the full depth possible with nonduality yet. it goes way beyond brain states. The reason mystics mysticize nonduality is because they reach such extraordinary depths that the scientific realist paradigm becomes utterly untenable.

2015 A.H. Almaan (A. Hameed Ali), a spiritual teacher and author, integral theorist, mystic (not that titles matter this much but hey... Maybe he can be a metasource for research?+ he is the guy on the right side of the screen). He facilitated 5 scientists to make a conversation on how close science is to understanding consciousness. 4 theories on consciouness were suggested. As far as I got it, they are quite confident about being close to understanding. There is chance of course that this is just nice comedy... But do you think it´s possible to make a mathematical theory about consciouness which will enrich its understanding for the nondualist, spiritual practisioner? Or do you think this is eternal tapping in the dark? Will this, even if it succeeds have something more to offer rather than direct experience? (bald guy from the left): Stuart Hameroff, anesthiologist and professor at University of Arizona, known for his studies of consciouness (next to Stuart): Julia Mossbridge, cognitive neuroscientist (first from the left next to Stuart): Donald Hoffman, cognitive scientist and author (guy in the middle): Henry Stapp, mathematical physicist, known for his work on quantum mechanics (bearded guy on the right next to Henry): Chris Fields, interdisciplinary information scientist (physics and cognitive neuroscience)

You can awaken from it permanently. To awaken from a dream is to realize it isn't real. But life will still continue because life isn't separate from nothingness. Nonduality includes duality. Of course that body/mind could kill itself or perhaps "ascend". There are many reports of people ascending. So that may be an option. But don't get ahead of yourself. Catch a glimpse of what you are first.

I was thinking man. These questions. They are implicitly nondualistic. By saying "IS there a triality" I actally refer to BEING. It's like you can't even imagine something outside of singularity/nonduality. It's impossible. Like this: is there something outside of being or not being? IS refers to being once again. Maybe once we'll have a good taste of true infinity we'll be able to have a look outside of it.

@Flow With Life Now that's Big nonduality. Good work, grasshopper!

LOL! I was just trying to have a little fun with you. My serious advice would be: Shadow work, uncovering your childhood wovs, check out other sources, many great self-help/nonduality teachers out there.. No reason to be attached to one teacher, there are plenty of others that can help you with advices that can make you Enlightened, Actualized, Happy, Rich or whatever you desire. Contemplating WHY are you feeling panickly about it.

@Markus It's rather funny because he takes these very nuanced, rather academic philosophical positions which are very easy to misinterpret and lead to huge amounts of controversy, which then gives him an opportunity to use his hyper-rational mental abilities to navigate around all the controversy and dispel much of the misunderstanding, but this takes hours of back-and-forth, and polarizes many people -- who either love him or hate him. Controversy is certainly an effective marketing strategy. Not sure if it's efficient at raising consciousness in those people who get polarized. For example, I'm not sure he's helping rid the world of Islamic fanaticism by bashing Islam and theism all the time. But that's just my opinion. He's certainly free to philosophize away. Personally, I think the best way to rid the world of fanaticism of all stripes is by discouraging people from debate, instead having them turn inward to deeply examine their desires to debate, rationalize, and take positions. By taking strong polemical positions and engaging in constant criticism, one subconsciously communicates the values which fuel fanaticism and sectarianism all over the world. In other words, in the face of hate, apply love, not more hate. My teaching style used to be more polarizing. I've been learning my lesson though and have had to move away from that style as my own consciousness rises. I don't see polarized teachings as being sustainable at the highest levels of consciousness. Because they are fundamentally dualistc. It's sorta sad for me to give up my old polarizing style. My ego likes it. It's way more fun to bash people. Oh well... another blow to the old ego I guess. The trick with highly conscious people, is that they are SO FUCKING LOVING, you cannot believe it when you see it. From the surface it appears fake or impossible. Because of that, many ordinary folks get turned off by it because it feels too sappy and lovey-dovey. It's like high consciousness has to dumb itself down to resonate with low consciousness. But high consciousness also doesn't care to dumb itself down. Which results in nonduality remaining a niche field. The paradox of consciousness: you have to possess consciousness to want to pursue consciousness.

Watch the video I recently posted in this forum about Psychedelics vs Meditation Research. The guy literally posts a graph comparing happiness levels of people having sex vs experiencing nonduality states. Hint: nonduality is far better than any sex you've ever had. If it wasn't, why would we even be talking about it? This would be a forum about porn instead.

@Leo Gura Exactly. Which is why i think its unfair to disregard him as your typical scientist. I think he has all the information and the view of the world similar to nonduality, i just dont think he's made the connection yet.