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Yes Leo, but most of us think that we are humans and this form is finite, so we think that death is nothing but returning to the Source or nothingness. Is this void immortality or we are truly immortal and death is only a limit of the mind?

psychedelics are a visionary trance state They are an additive state like shamanic rituals involving repetitive music and dancing , it involves sensory/perceptive stimulus. In this case a chemical stimulus The chemical has a physical effect on the brain which triggers a mental state (this is not to diminish the value of the experience) but it's an additive state, adding something physical It could be sound (drums etc) and body movements, sensory input that induces a trance state of visionary and perception changes But it is antithetical to some forms of mediation (not all) which are often reductive, doing the opposite, removing stimulation to approach stillness, nothingness, focusing on one point , or observing our distracting thoughts in removed way . These forms of meditation are clearly not a visionary trance state although that occasionally may be experienced. There are additive and reductive states. These are very different and if you look at various meditative states and visionary trance states within them they are different. Each psychedelic is different and mediation has many variations not all with the same outcome. The other worldly experiences and perception changes under psychedelics are clearly not like the stillness of certain mediation states but they may be similar to other types of meditation that are more mystical (sometimes oriented toward focus on a deity). There is also a tendency in all of these things to bring into them ones already had beliefs and experiences and cultural background. Enlightenment might be inspired by a mental state but it is considered to be permanent condition usually resulting in clarity and wisdom. However what enlightenment is is very subjective and one person's "absolute truth" may be different than another's "absolute truth" . In fact truth can't be properly expressed in words

Just curious if others experience this in conversation with others, a dissolving of sense of self, where there is just the awareness of the other speaking and the responses that come up. I’ve noticed it happening since I started therapy. It’s like being in a meditative state but able to converse and interact. I’m finding it happens as the conversation progressively becomes more open with vulnerability on both sides. It’s stands in contrast to how I typically feel when interacting with others which is slightly contracted somehow. I noticed it in therapy, presumably because it was a safe feeling space where I could speak freely without fear of judgement. I enjoy the bliss of nothingness during meditation and when two people are conscious of it it’s a really interesting and fun space to explore and speak from with another. Curious how other’s find interacting with others, in particular close family & friends and if they find themselves in this state of awareness or perhaps this is their default?

@Member you are not awake brother. You haven’t realize the truth. I can even see from your talking style. Formlessness can be exist without a form, but form can not be exist without formlessness. Such as, every salmon is fish, however salmon can not be exist without being fish, however in order to be fish you dont need to be specifically salmon. Everything is pure consciousness (nothingness). If it doesn’t exist, nothing can be exist. Ask leo, you guys trust him but at the same time whatever you want to call it you can name it, because whatever name you put it, it comes from nothingness or pure consciousness. So whatever you do you cant run away. Nothing can be nothing and at the same time infinite. Nothing is the core.

@gswva fear is not a force either. If you never felt fear, you can never know feel of love, thats why they complete each other. God is so simple, thats why it is just a being, thats why it’s nothing, which is formless and awareness itself. Truth is only state of being, which is nothing. Thats it. Thats what i have been trying to explain. Infinite nothingness, which is full complete being. Thats why all is one, all is it. The truth.

@Member you are everywhere because you are nothing. @Inliytened1 infinite is nothingness. If you are not nothing, you cant be anything. Every form based on formlessness or nothingness. I still feel love, compassion or happiness a lot more however they are all beautiful illusions However, experience helped me to feel more love and compassion. Thats the beautiful part. However in actuality, nothing is happening. Ask anyone you want. If you are completely god. There is no emotion or thoughts there. Just you. When the dream disappears, only left is infinite nothingness. Thats why everyone is enlightened, because all is based on nothing and existed by nothing. If it is no nothing, it can not take any forms. Thats the reason why all is perfect because all is coming from nothingness.

@Member where is your mind? Where are you? If you dont know the word of god, who is god? If you dont know the word of enlightenment, what is enlightenment? These are all matrix, words, which is an illusion. how do you know thats a cat? Lol. Words are created by humans. Cant you see. God, cat, you, me has no differences. It is all nothingness. Helping, what is helping, it is just action, action is just a word created within nothing.

Because you're God sustaining this body and the whole universe depends on you. Nothingness and everythingness are the same, the only difference is in your mind.

This is life bro because you're living right now. You only assume there is Death or nothingness. Matrix wants to make you believe that there are things outside of you and you have no power over your life. The only limit is set by your own Mind. At least, right now this makes sense to me & I used to believe in nothingness too because of ego death but I woke up to become everything, not nothing. Death is BS.

Being infinite nothingness. Infinite and nothing. Infinite formlessness. Close your eyes, cut all your emotions, feelings and attachments. You will see.

Brother, i dont want to call it god. You call it god, because you learned that higher source of human is god. This is still matrix. God is nothing. And being completely god is infinite nothingness. Hot-cold, good-bad, right-wrong, belief-disbelief and god-human these are matrix. I am nothing. When I thought, i was human at that time i could be god. But god, human, love, feelings vs these are within matrix. But truth is matrix is created by nothingness. Matrix has never even existed. This is not life, it is full nothing.

Nothingness and everythingness are the same thing, just the same as life and death are. The only distinction is in your mind.

What is pure Nothingness?

You never become completely god brother. There is not even a blink happening there, all is infinite nothingness. You become infinite nothingness and awareness. There is nothing except you. Thats pure awareness just aware as nothing, nowhere thats the reason why it is everywhere and everything. Anything is formed on nothing. Close your eyes, look at everywhere. Thats what it is. Just cut the emotions, feelings and thoughts. Excuse my language, but you are infinite nothingness as a fucking king. Nothing is there except you. You are fullll nothingness. Love is nothing. You are full complete nothingness.

@Member i don’t believe in anything anymore brother even love, these are all distinctions. The answer is direct awareness or nothingness. No more than that. Rest is emotion, thought or attachment. Because if yoo never realize yourself Love never occurs, but you are still aware in any situation as nothing. When you become completely god, you are completely nothing. There is nothing except you, there is no place for love or being love. Just you.

@Inliytened1 not faith. I am thats it. When stuff turns out to be thought, you can consider as a faith. This situation makes me think, thats why i get confused, thats why it is not real. Awareness is nothing, but if you can name awareness, you can consider as love, because love is purpose of duality. I dont know why, I usually experience nothingness or the moment I don’t want to give any name, because it creates thinking even love. Thats why it has no name, it is the way that it is. If experience of love comes it comes.

Pure Being = Pure or Absolute infinity = Pure or Absolute Love = Pure Absolute Nothingness Pure Nothingness is everything in a formless state or state of pure potential. Right now you are a particular form or thing. Your substrate is nothing but you are a piece of it. So you are nothing and something hehe. Once you become directly conscious that you are nothing and everthing, so shall you become it. You will be Pure Being. Your form will die though. Pure Being feels like Total Bliss or Total Love.

"The only thing that creates value meaning purpose is the 'sense of self'.. and it's an illusion" Haha I agree in one sense. But to only take this perspective shows that you still got a long way to go:-) It's not the full truth. There is inherent Love built into the very fabric of existence itself. That you can't grasp this is something that makes me feel sorry for you. How can something that is not real, was never real -- i.e. not there in the first place -- create meaning and purpose??? Easy enough: it can't, cos it doesn't exist. There are more layers to Reality than your narrow and shallow nihilistic nothingness-awakening.

It may seem obvious to some of you, and it took a long time for me to truely grasp this, but I just came to the realization last night that everything that I have ever learned in my life can be deconstructed to Zero or Infinity, Nothing or Everything, Meaningless or Meaningful, Formlessness or Formed, God or The Devil. And ultimately, they are the same thing. Consciousness. The blank canvas of Nothingness that all distinctions (Everythingness) are made. All branches of knowledge points to this when you break it down to what is actual, and not ideas about something. There is a "consensus" out there to what the Truth is. It's just that no one wants to take that last step of saying "WE" are "IT" too. All Mathematics breaks down at zero and infinity All Science breaks down at Nothing or Everything, begininnings and endings, infinitely small or infinitely large, everywhere and nowhere. All of Philosophy points to this. Nietzsche, Descarte, Derrida, Heidegger, Kant. All their theories broke down when they deconstructed far enough. Religion, Psychology, Laws, Politics, Art, etc etc etc. It all breaks down. All of it is assigning meaning to the meaningless, making distinctions in something that's distinctionless. I used to think of it as only the Ego being false. But the Ego is ALL the distinctions we make in Reality. The Limits we place in the Limitless!

@VeganAwake Nice post. Yes, they can only assist in awakening. Nothing more. Of course they can also do harm. Have respect for these powerful tools, man. There is already a psychedelic that can disrupt the normal functioning of mind inside everyone's brains. Serotonin What is before the thinking mind... The opposite What is there besides the thought of what is there... The opposite The first opposite is nothingness, the second is Awareness. Thinking Mind = Nothingness Thoughts = Awareness Non-duality 101.

In my opinion psychedelics are a visionary trance state They are an additive state like rituals involving repetitive music and dancing , it has a physical dimension a sensory/perceptive stimulus. In this case a chemical stimulus The chemical has a physical effect on the brain which triggers a mental state (this is not to diminish the value of the experience) it's an additive state and that can be additive with sound (drums etc) and body movements, sensory trance inducers But it is antithetical to some forms of mediation (not all) which are a very reductive. removing stimulation to approach stillness, nothingness, focusing on one point , or observing our distracting thoughts in removed way in order to not become attached to them and let them pass. These forms of meditation are clearly not a visionary trance state although that occasionally may be experienced. there are additive states and subtractive states.

@JayG84 A lot of spiritual masters define enlightenment as being aware of reality/Truth. This reality that you're saying you are aware of, can you see/perceive it? Can you understand it? Are you that reality that you say you intuitively know? Or is reality "out there" and apart from you? If you know that everything is one and you are this oneness, are your attitudes and actions in alignment with this type of knowing? Do you feel light and loving toward all forms? I guess trying to answer these questions will shine some light on it for your and also to see if you are enlightened. I imagine that enlightenment can "happen" without knowing that you are. I recall Eckhart Tolle saying that for years he was just silent, so silent that he didn't recognise that he was silent. Like he had no thought to arise a thought of "oh.. wow.. I have no thoughts". There was just nothing. Emptiness. To address your questions directly: 1. But do you actually see the "substance" of consciousness when you awaken? There are many different stages to awakening (in my experience). It's like things are slowly revealed to you. Doors open and doors close. Sometimes we get a glimpse of something which will uncover a discovery that will slightly shift our understanding and other times we get the full-blown experience, which causes us to change immediately. Some experiences are so powerful that the old way of thinking (or thinking at all) stops. And there is just a silence. Tears can come and so can laughter, for no apparent reason at all. Personally, I am a little stuck on the "substance of consciousness" thing. The only thing I have experienced it to be is "infinity". Infinity beyond the concept of infinity. A good way to tell if you are experiencing reality or have an "awakening" experience is that it will be completely different to what you have learned or imagined. But, when you try to explain what it is (as you're having the awakening experience or moment of "seeing"), you will be saying the same thing you said when you thought you knew what it was, but it will be completely different. This is why you cannot "learn" enlightenment or reality. 2. Is this close to what they call Enlightenment? Enlightenment is an "event" or experience which can be quite profound. It's not a thought or something that you create through imagination. I believe that the reason why people sometimes call it a "non-event" is because it does not occur in time. You know that you as the truth that you are has always been and you just imagined that you were something else. You may even be able to confirm that you have never suffered in life. Not that you will no longer suffer, but that you have never suffered, and you were only imagining your suffering. Also, you may feel as though you know everything. It is like all of life's mysteries just expose themselves to you and you don't need to read anything. Like you do not need to learn it. Many "positivity" quotes that you know take on a whole know meaning. You see how some "positivity" quotes are BS and some are very profound and could have only come from an enlightened person or from someone who at least was enlightened for a period of time. It's almost like everything clicks into place intellectually. 3. Is there a definite "barrier" that you cross when you "Awaken"? Personally, I have experienced many barriers or moments of reaching the "door" or "gate" and being too scared to continue through. It is almost like you are literally fearful of your life and you feel that you will die. One of my most crazy experiences was where I have an intense awakening experience and I was dropped into nothingness. At first I was like "mad, I'm here, I did it" (very identified and spiritually un-woke thing to say at that time because when I said "I" I literally meant me as an ego "did it"). It was a silence beyond silence and an emptiness beyond emptiness. Then a few seconds into it, I sensed something arise, almost like a thought or something maybe even an emotion or energy crept up behind me and then I realised "Could I be this emptiness?" and I thought "If I'm this emptiness then anything could happen". Like I could be dropped into an everlasting pit of sorrow and torture (for literally, ever, and never to escape). I don't recall if I did or not, but I could've let out a shriek of fear and it would have pierced through utter bliss (which was what I experienced first). Later I assessed the whole experience and tried to see where I went wrong because I thought I had "broke through". I later realised that I had a lot of ego identification in that moment and a lot of fear and confusion and I identified with it. I felt like "me", "getting" enlightened - obtaining it like a lost treasure that was for me and for me only. 4. Do you go anywhere? Like waking up from the Matrix or something? From my experiences you stay where you are. It seems as though things come to you rather than you go to things. 5. Does it "Look" different? Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace? Imagine seeing everything you look at the same way that you look at someone who you are deeply in love with, even if it's a sliced-up zucchini or something. You can literally see so much beauty that you can be brought to tears of joy. Every woman and every man look beautiful and you love them. I've had a few experiences like this and it wasn't a thought. You do not "sustain" the beauty that you see by thinking about it in a loving way. it is already amazing and beautiful before you had an opinion. 6. Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace? Enlightenment is not knowledge, but knowledge can come from it. The peace should be there before the knowledge. 7. Is the intuitive knowledge that you are ONE and that the self is an illusion good enough? If you have to ask, "is this good enough?" then it's not good enough. This tells me that you are still looking for something other than what you already are. If this helped let me know. I apologise if my responses are a bit all over the place. I feel that I am still exposing delusions and learning about the reality that I am. I feel confident enough to guide you as I have been where you have been. Consciousness and enlightenment is a funny thing because you could have an enlightenment experience today and you could potentially surpass levels of consciousness that I have experienced. You could then come into the full understanding of life and reality and I would be there in a heartbeat taking advantage of that by asking you some of my burning questions about it lol. Peace dude Lenny

Mooji is great, i think one of the most direct teachers around in that if you follow some of his steps he can actually lead you into nothingness

Who got that recognition? :-) Who saw it for what it was? What do you mean by 'here'? And what/who experienced this regathering of the ego? :-) Oh, so it was dropped like it was hot? By who? Who dropped it ? -------------------------------------------------- @VeganAwake-------------------------------------------------- To keep this discussion really simple, if you do not fully agree with this: Nothingness = Everything = Love = God = Ego = Consciousness , then I can safely say you're still lost. In either way, if you do actually agree, then we have nothing to discuss. Also if you disagree, there's no point either in continuing this "discussion" between I and myself. And it's perfectly fine to have an other recognition, experience or belief here... no judgement at all. <3 -------------------------------------------------- @VeganAwake-------------------------------------------------- I know you don't actually judge me. But still: Do you judge me for writing so much here about love and peace? Making <3's all the time? If your state of consciousness/enlightenment does not grasp/understand that Reality is in fact All About Love, then sure, you may still be somewhat awakened/enlightened/liberated, but it's pretty incomplete in the humble opinion of no one :-) Much love <3

"there isn't anyone here to hold on to any concepts or beliefs... " Okay, this is gonna be fun, so why not. To use the nisargadatta-quote, my "problem" (not that I have any real problems in life since my awakening) with veganawake is that he is indeed too far on the "everything is nothing" on the <"I'm Nothing" <--> "I'm Everything">-scale. The scale is of course a dualistic concept, and nothing and everything is absolutely one and the same thing. But anyway, it's quote obvious to me -- I'd like to believe, I may be wrong -- that veganwake's mind is not really in full non-dual mode It's somewhat stuck in the "nihilistic nothingness/everything is perfect as it is/nothing matters/nothing exist"-way-of-thinking. Of course this way of thinking is true enough. There's nothing wrong with saying these things. The problem arises if you cling to these ideas and hold them as the whole truth. The whole truth is: "paradox, non-dual, infinite, every-perspective-is-equal". As I have said multiple times but which veganawake somehow does not seem to fully grasp is that everything that we can say with words and sentences can never-ever be fully true. And you can take any statement and flip it on its head and this opposite statement will be equally as true as the original statement. When we communicate and say things, we always say it to someone, either to ourselves or to another. What I say on this forum depends mostly on what I think most readers are identified with. For example, if most readers are lost in the dream and does not grasp that their ego and everything is fantasy and that they are Divine, then I'll say things that'll make them try to understand this. However, let's say most readers are fanatics who are clinging to the nihilistic belief that they don't exist and that nothing matters and that they truly are God and that they can do as they damn please, then I might write something like: "Everything matters. The Now is eternal and infinite. It's all that matters and it contains everything. You do exist. Yes as God. But you don't understand what God is. God has nothing to do with your personal beliefs and ideas. You may very well believe that you can do as you damn please, sure, but it's a belief, notice that. You do exist, and Reality is Real in the Realest sense. Yes, It's a dream, but it's your fucking draem. You decided to dream it up. Do you think that it was a mistake? No it wasn't. This dream of yours is intelligent and planned out. Make no mistake, fool". Anyway to conclude this pointless rant, I'll take some things VeganAwake have said and use his own logic against him. Just to make him see how lost he is. (I've been stuck in his way of thinking for a long time by the way. So did Leo. It's only recently, like the past 1-2 years that Leo has incoporated the Love-aspect into his teachings). "And the belief that there is a higher perspective as opposed to lower perspective is still caught in the dream and is still duality " Your sincere belief that there is no higher perspective as opposed to lower perspective shows that you're still caugtht in the fantasy-land of duality. I could say that there are indeed higher perspectives compared to lower perspectives, and it would be just as true as what you said. See, I don't disagree with you, only with your rigid mind. "And that's just fine because it's what's happening it's whole complete and perfect but for No One." It's complete and perfect for God as well, you could say. Your "sincere belief of nothingness" is just that: a belief. "there isn't anyone here to hold on to any concepts or beliefs... " Your belief that there isn't anyone here to hold on to any concepts or beliefs is just that: a belief. I could say that there indeed is someone here that is capable of holding on to beliefs and concepts, namely You (God, I'm talking to you my friend), and it would be just as true as your original statement. "It's already perfect it's already whole it's already complete it's already Paradise it's already the kingdom of heaven" It's not already whole. It's not already complete. We got a lot of work to do. The kingdom of heaven is certainly not here on Earth yet. Have you seen what's happening in US? How many children every day that die due to hunger in Africa? To say it's already paradise is ... well, of course true enough, if you look at it from one level of magnification, hehe, but not from another level of magnification:-) No level of magnification is more true than any other. We can zoom infinitely far out and infinitely far in, and it's always that: a perspective, always only half-truth. As I said, of course, from my level of magnification it's sort of already whole and perfect and Paradise itself is certainly right in front of my eyes in everything I look at. That's how I feel. I see the Beautiful Garden all around me. Do you? <3 Much love to everyone here. <3 Sorry for being harsh and arrogant, I can't help my self. <3 This isn't even something I'm writing. It's Flow.