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Mathematics based on beliefs? Human invention? I don't see that. Mathematics is discovered, not invented. If aliens discover mathematics, they would have it, if they don't, they wont. I'm not saying primitive in negative sense, but this is just the reality of the story of evolution. Humans are more intelligent than other species on Earth - fact (based on our definitions - without definitions we would not be able to communicate this so let's respect them a bit). If intelligence is a bad quality, then we are at the bottom of the hierarchy - I dont kniw whether it's good or bad or both or neither. I don't care to be at the top or bottom. Put me anywhere. On this forum I've posted that this is the planet of the bees one time anyway, so I don't consider humans at the top anyway. But still a human would beat a bee in a spelling bee. A bee would beat a human at pollinating flowers. If crows or any other animals grow up to be more aware of their own existence, mathematics will soon be discovered. It's a simple counting that starts it all off. It's based on observations. I guarantee, 1+1 will always be 2. Place one rock next to the other. How many rocks do you have? What did you invent for this to be the case? It would be so even if you didn't understand the symbols. Maths is definitely a discovery. The symbols are invented, what they point to are discoveries. Nonduality symbols too are invented, what they point to is discovery.

If 2 people with high degree of self-realization, not just the realizaion I am not my body/mind, but as well the full embodiment, the god-consciousness, merger of shiva and shakti... fuck have a baby raise him in an enlightened environment (0 ego energy around), would the child develop an ego? If not, how well could it function?

Its all a dream-like existence with logic. I've got this realisation, because my dreams have been getting so realistic, that there is absolutely no difference in experience, except that here it is longer and follows certain rules. Tibettan Budhism has a section all about dreams. They are extremely helpful companions and teachers in the Hero's journey. You can make far more spiritual growth within your dreams than in real life exactly because this logic section of mind is switched off. Where infinite potential meet infinite knowing. 0 (0%) is infinite potential, 1(100%) is infinite knowing meet in nonduality, then the Holy True Love relationship is formed. And we experience bliss within the dream.

@Joseph Maynor That is why we each must walk our own unique path. No path is right or wrong. It's Allah's will no matter which fork in the road you take. Ignorance needs room to play itself out. Which is fundamentally why we must be tolerant of all people and why nonduality wars are silly.

Yes, for course, a master would never talk about Trolls, cause you'd call him fucking crazy. Masters withhold a lot. But that is not my style. I like to spill the beans and let people deal with it. I like to be provocative. Calling it "nothing" gets one reaction out of people. Usually a nonchalant reaction. (Because the signficance hasn't been registered yet.) Calling all of reality a hallucination gets a totally different reaction out of people. Usually one of "What the fuck???!!!! Nooooooo!!!!!!!!!" They both mean exactly the same thing. But the problem is, it takes a long time for people to make all the interconnections and trace out the absolutely mindblowing consequences of nonduality. Yes, it's all a hallucination. How else could you transcend death? How else could you attain eternal peace? Only by realizing all is hallucination. If there was anything real, you would be a slave to it. There could be no liberation. The word "hallucination" is actually very precise. A hallucination is defined as an appearance without substance. That's what everything is, appearance with nothing behind it. That is mysticism 101. Or idealism 101. If it is palatable, it's because you're still steeped in the naive realist paradigm. It's a really hard one to shake. Of course the ultimate nature of reality isn't even a hallucination. It would be most accurate to call it: undefined. But "hallucination" gives a better sense of what it feels like. Of course all words are merely metaphors. Each one of you could have different metaphors you favor.

It doesn't matter what I believe. I've experienced nonduality.

@Juan Cruz Giusto It's no accident you don't agree. That's the only thing separating duality from nonduality. You are grossly underestimating this thing called "enlightenment".

All distinctions are illusion! Hello??? What do you think NONDUALITY means? Lol ONE, as in not two. Not distinct. Everything distinct is relative!

I see a lot of folks here triggered by this notion of "hallucination". Good... that means your web of belief is being disrupted. Definition of hallucination from Google: "an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present." That is PRECISELY, EXACTLY, LITERALLY what all of reality is. Something which is nothing. Stop arguing about nonsense and go self-inquire (or do some 5-MeO) and see for yourselves. Hallucination = Illusion = A Dream = Maya = Idealism = Infinite Mind = Enlightenment = God = I AM = The Self = No Self = Nirvana = Buddha = Christ = Shiva = Shakti = Void = Reality = Truth = Absolute = The One = Nonduality = Duality = Being = Infinity = Consciousness = The Dao = Mu Ya'll got some silly notions of enlightenment. "All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream." -- Edgar Allan Poe

Watch out for your assumptions. I am not making appeals to "spiritual masters" as dogma or putting them on pedestals. It's quite clear that hardcore meditators and advanced yoga practitioners with 30-40 years of experience have way deeper mastery of this stuff than Martin and have seen things and can do things which Martin may not be able to imagine. I have enough experience and foresight to tell the difference. Just because I have a friendly interview with someone doesn't mean I agree with everything they say, or that their views are the end-all-be-all. Why would you make Martin Ball the arbiter of things? Nonduality is not the only thing in question here. Lol, and just how am I supposed to act if reality is a hallucination? Should I be wearing a clown hat and running naked around the streets? Just because it's a hallucination, doesn't mean anything behavioral. Your hand would still burn if you stick in the fire. That's all part of the hallucination. The problem is that people hear "hallucination" and they get silly images in their mind of "anything goes". Like you can walk through walls and eat poison and nothing will happen. No, shit will happen. If "you get shot in the head", the hallucination called "your life" will "end". If you want to understand the entirety of the spiritual domain, you're gonna need a much more openminded and inquiring attitude. Picking one person and following everything they say it not gonna cut it. I have a meta-approach. I study and cross-reference dozens of sources and schools against my own experiences and deductions. Anyways, investigate for yourself. Any advanced practitioner will tell you reality is a hallucination. I'm not saying anything new. There are WAY more incredible things than that to discover.

@TJ Reeves Lol, that's far out man. Now you can appreciate what a 30g trip is like BTW, if you're gonna trip that much, best not to use real mushrooms but just pure psilocin. It will be cheaper and much easier to consume. Can't imagine actually eating 10g-30g of real mushrooms. @unknownworld Well everything is ultimately a fantasy. That doesn't mean going to a zoo isn't worthwhile. Of course tripping your balls off is an exploration of Maya. But if Mars is worth exploring, then so is the mushroom kingdom The fact is, you don't know what is and isn't worthwhile exploring until AFTER you've explored it. Only people who have actually tripped on 30g of mushrooms will know. We are just guessing. We're stuck in Maya anyhow, so it's up to you what parts of it you want to explore. Some people choose to explore Game Of Thrones, some people choose to explore the moon, some people choose to explore being a Neo-Nazi, some people choose to explore hyper-galactic machine elves. Might as well choose something interesting and consciousness-promoting. But if all you want is nonduality, you can get that at very low doses.

Do you realize what infinite means? Its means EVERYTHING. Neuroticism and suffering are two things within everything. If there was no neuroticism or suffering, there could not be infinity. Why do you overlook the beauty of neurosis and suffering? Are these not beautiful things? The reason your life is filled with suffering is because you haven't yet learned the lessons which that suffering is trying to show you, so that you could realize the nonduality of existence. Suffering is meant to lead you to infinity. If you would just listen to it. The mechanism is PERFECT! You have no idea yet just how perfect it all is. It is perfectly designed to lead you to Truth. You just can't see that yet because ego clouds your perception. That is the cost of egotism. Your suffering is directly proportional to how egotisical you are. So do the work, and you will one day experience the infinite beauty of everything (heaven). Or don't, and stay in hell.

There's nothing to solve, I think. I agree with you that the 5eo-dmt experience was a Stage 3 "God Consciousness" experience. The only peril here is that he stabilizes in that stage and believes that's full enlightenment. Otherwise it wasn't a bad experience to have, it likely accelerated his progress. I've had experience with spirit guides on psychedelics (that's of a stage prior to Leo's experience) and it was definitely helpful. As far as striving, this is natural until you stabilize in the last pre-nonduality stage. Eventually, you realize it can't be done and let go. He knows it intellectually already but accepting it takes time. Yes, no other, no world, no enlightened being, everything is perfect exactly as it is.

Accademia has trouble. In particular, the system of financing is terrible and leads people to compromise their ethics. BUT (from the observations of a phd student in theoretical physics) I don't agree that academics and in particular mathematicians are not open to spirituality. In fact, for most, I'd say mathematics itself is a spiritual endeavour of sorts. Especially for those who are not looking at applications first, it's a pursuit of Beauty. If you're a student of the field currently, look at your teachers. Are they the kind of humans you'd like to become? I'd certainly say that some of my university teachers are self-actualizing, and after a lifetime of pursuing mathematics they're still bright and active and optimistic in their sixties and beyond, and usually kind and compassionate with their students. It's not enlightenment, but imho academia still attracts people with higher values, and with a purpose in life. From a practical viewpoint, as a downside to academia, you probably won't be making a terrible lot of money. As an upside, you may have a little more freedom to choose your working hours than the business 9 to 5. (You might be better of with both as a freelance programmer, IT is in.) It's true that you can't talk about things like nonduality very publicly in academia, otherwise you risk not being taken seriously as a researcher by many; on the other hand I've known more than one who'd admit going to a meditation retreat for their vacation (and one tantra teacher who was a former IT guy) - I think mathematicians do lean towards Buddhism. Things are shifting.

@ajasatya @Arman @Leo Gura @Nahm I am in the middle of spiritual emergency. For the last four months I have had incredible quantitaties of emotional releases ( around 300 hours of grief ) and big shifts in my visual perceptions of reality . I had one experience of nonduality and various deep experiences of great appreciation for reality.My view on myself , life and others has changed radically. My ego is dying. But I still have a lot inside .Emotions are coming out automatically, I don't even need to meditate .My body is literally vomiting out tons of shit. I need a place that fully supports me. Last month I spent three weeks in a zen Buddhist monastery and it helped me a lot. The problem was that I made too much noise in releasing the emotions and the monks were disturbed. Now I want a way to release FAST and COMFORTABLY the remaining emotions ( I think I have about 100 hours left based on how I feel my body) . I could do Holotropic breathwork a lot of times but there is no such place in Europe where I can do it. I read psychedelics like psilocybin can help to force a greater amount of emotions to be faced together . Also just opening a lot with people helps me a lot but I have few people who are able to support me now. What advice can you give me ?

How much work is it really gonna take? To get all this super deep understanding of everything? For high level or full enlightenment? For all this wisdom and growth mastering this stuff? Mastering nonduality, consciousness, knowledge, wisdom, growth, etc. To becoming a sage? Is it really possible without a life purpose dedicated to doing this stuff? If your life purpose isn't centered around mastering this stuff will you really have the time to do this in life with another life purpose happening? If your a writer do you have the time to do this? Wouldn't you need to be a nonduality teacher or something like that to reach these levels? A life focused completely on it? It doesn't seem possible to me to be honest. What do you guys think?

Scientists are a very dogmatic bunch. Their loyalty is to the mind, not to Absolute Truth. Scientists balk at anything "mystical", paradoxical, or ineffable. 5-MeO-DMT will destroy the entire scientific paradigm. It's also very difficult to make sense of without having studied lots of philosophy, epistemology, and nonduality. 5-MeO-DMT literally kills you. It's not easy to convince anyone to go through that process when their entire life is designed around not dying. It's even hard to convince enlightened people to take 5-MeO. Realistically, you're never going to take 5-MeO unless you're a serious truth-seeker already. Hell, I rarely want to take it myself. It's just too big of a mind fuck for most people to handle. Psychedelics don't work on ignorant people. They require proper use and interpretation. An ignorant person will just use psychedelics in an ignorant way. Like a monkey trying to use a computer. Just by giving a monkey a computer doesn't make him Bill Gates. The Absolute Truth needs no interpretation in theory. But in practice, your mind will try to make sense of it somehow. How you make sense of it will vary widely by individual. And Absolute Truth isn't one thing. It has many layers to it. Very few people in the world have penetrated the deepest layers. Many so called "enlightened people" have really just scratched the surface. They have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. And even 5-MeO doesn't go to the deepest levels from what I gather.

Prior to realization - which was nondual in nature, I really wasn't trying to get enlightenment. Ever since when I was a child, I was curious about the world and wanted to know the truth. I somehow sensed there was something more. So although I was not raised in any religion or faith, I became interested in spiritual topics in my later teens (much to the confusion of my parents). From about 1991 to 2004, I was a ravenous reader and spiritual seeker. I just wanted to know the truth...and it kept me going. In 2004, it seemed I hit my limit of reading and studying. Funny enough, I hadn't read anything about nonduality. But at that time, every new book I read seemed to just be saying something I had already read. So I gave up the search. I no longer really cared. A year later (November 2005), I happened to keep bumping into the name - Eckhart Tolle - and so decided just to watch a video of his to get a summary of his teaching. I watched the Flower of Human Consciousness and he gave an exercise on inhabiting the body and I truly became present for the first time (instead of thinking I was present). In that moment of silence of mind, there was realization. So it started out as a search for truth.

@Leo Gura 1. have you asked yourself yet, "what duality?" I find it a very powerful question to ask under any context or circumstance, and a question that can be easy to overlook. 2. I.e. "consciousness isn't thought" - what duality? "there are things which aren't experience" - what duality? hehe... "existence isn't dual" - what duality? sure, let's remind those with monkey mind that existence is consciousness is authenticity is nonduality. but let's also remind the sage that existence is dual. after all, what duality? 3. how often do you let loose?

Great news for all 5-meo aficionados..... Dr. Martin W. Ball has released his brand new book "Entheogenic Liberation: Unraveling the Enigma of Nonduality with 5-Meo-Dmt Energetic Therapy - The Worlds most Comprehensive work on 5-Meo-DMT and Nonduality" If you are interested in achieving non-dual liberation then the book is for you. For me personally I find the message of Mr. Ball very fascinating and penetrating with the powerful message of truth with a no-bullshit approach on enlightenment. I have aquired this substance but Im still working up to experiencing it and going deeper with the process of self-discovery and energetic liberation. For me, small amounts of magic fungi have opened my doors of perception and made me humble and dedicated to the path.

I'd rather use money / time differently than what most festivals would offer. In fact I wouldn't even go to some festivals named here if I was paid for it. There are some exceptions of course. Maybe some of the satsang festivals that are popping up in recent years in germany, maybe a yoga festival where there was some nice music, maybe something like science-and-nonduality, maybe even the "entheoscience"-festival here in germany. But I'd probably still take the money / time and do intensives and retreats.

@Sukhpaal Sympathy has been looked upon as a very valuable attribute. It means you become unhappy and show your sorrow on seeing some one else unhappy. It also means ‘to experience’, that is to experience along with another. But the person who experiences unhappiness when the other is unhappy does never experience happiness when the other is happy. You show your feelings of sorrow and unhappiness if anybody’s house catches fire, but you do not show happiness if some one else builds a big building. It is very important to understand this matter. What does this mean? This means sympathy is a kind of deception. That sympathy is genuine when you experience unhappiness in the miseries of others and experience joy and happiness in the happiness of others. But we are able to experience or show unhappiness in another’s unhappiness, though many a time we are unable to experience happiness in another’s happiness. That is why, it will not be correct to say we are able to show sorrow when another is unhappy’. If we are able to be happy in the happiness of others, then and then only, would it be proper to show our sorrow in their unhappiness. On the contrary, we derive some pleasure in the unhappiness of others. We take some pleasure in another’s difficulties. We become fully delighted in others’ miseries. So when you go to show your sorrow in others’ miseries, try to examine within you whether you derive some pleasure or not at that time. In such a situation. one interesting thing is that you feel you are the person showing sympathy and the other is in a position to receive it. When that another person comes into the position of receiving sympathy he becomes a beggar and you become the donor effortlessly. When That person comes into the state of receiving your sympathy, you come into a patronising position and he becomes an humble or low person. And if you check up within your heart, you will find the presence of a kind of pleasure in showing your sorrow for his condition. You are sure to get it. And if you don’t get it, you will be the person who can be completely happy in another’s happiness. We become jealous of another’s happiness, we are resentful. So, the other aspect of this matter tells us that we are unable to be unhappy in another’s unhappiness, but we have been naming it ‘sympathy’. I have been talking of this Kind of feeling which is generally known as sympathy. So I thought it proper to select another word empathy. ‘Sympathy’ is a false thing, it is deception And if we understand fully that if the sympathy of someone is genuine, that is, he experiences unhappiness in another’s unhappiness and experiences happiness in another’s happiness, even then it remains as violence, it cannot be nonviolence because as long as there is another, it cannot fulfil the conditions of nonviolence. Nonviolence is an experience of non-duality. It is the experience that apart from the other there is also I. It will certainly be violence if your experience of feeling unhappy on seeing another unhappy is false. And even if the feeling be true, I remain I and the other remains the other. The bridge between the two is not broken and there is no possibility of nonviolence. To know the other as the other is also violence. Why? Because I am living in ignorance as long as I consider the other as the other. In fact the other is not the other. Empathy does not mean knowing that the other is becoming unhappy but it means I myself have become miserable. It is not knowing that the other has become happy, but it means I myself have become happy. It is not like this, that the moon is shining in the sky; but it is I too have been shining. It is not that the sun is rising but that I have risen. It is not that flowers have blossomed but it is I who have blossomed. Empathy means nonduality. Empathy means oneness. Nonviolence is oneness. So, there are three states: one is false sympathy, which is violence, pure and simple; two, genuine sympathy which is a very subtle form of violence, and three, empathy which is nonviolence. It may be violence or a subtle form of violence; it may be genuine sympathy or false sympathy — all these are happenings at the mental level. Empathy is a spiritual happening. Source: Osho Book “The Perennial Path: The Art of Living”

Yes! that's why I've started to investigate all this. First I was shocked. I use to thing that it is some hocus pocus of the nonduality but now I just don't know.

@Mert Nonduality and souls are not necessarily mutually exclusive. No more so than nonduality and bodies are. It isn't hard to conceive that a human organism is constructed not only out of physical matter, but the organism is rooted much more deeply into the fabric of reality, at levels which sit below physical reality, or "our universe", or our current life, such that even if our entire universe is annihilated, remnants of the organism you currently think of as yourself may remain in some more fundamental substrata of reality. Yes, everything is nondual, but that doesn't really say jack about how reality is specifically structured and how organisms work. The most advanced and hardcore mystics -- people who've spent 10,000-50,000 hours in meditation -- talk about past lives. Are they just being cute? Are they just deluded? That's a rather arrogant and dismissive stance to take, IMO. In my experience, when a person like that tells you something about reality, you should consider it very seriously, even if it first sounds stupid. Which is not to say you should believe them blindly.

If you are the observer of the screen, there is duality. There is you and the screen. This is a problem if you believe in nonduality. (or have experienced it) It's my experience that we are the screen, and the screen is aware of itself. Or basically, we are reality/existence, and this existence is aware of itself. The thing that we truly are, that experiences our thoughts, or sight, our touch, our feelings. It does not have thoughts, it does not have sight, it does not have feelings. Who is to say what it truly is. In such a construction, there is no information flowing downstream into our human brains. It is impossible to even know with our human mind/brain if it can only see our physical bodies sight, smell, touch, feelings, thoughts. Perhaps this consciousness is aware of everything, and our human brain/perspective is only aware of its small part in it? You cannot experience it, you are it. When people ask "how can I experience it", they are asking the question from a perspective of the human experience. This is wrong, the human cannot experience reality. There is enlightenment or being, and there is the human. The human lives within the reality, the reality does not live within the human. Still, people search for lifetimes to find reality or enlightenment within themselves. You can only let go, and let reality exist as it is. There is nothing left to do, there is nothing to gain, nor anything to lose because you already are part of being. Like the waves are part of the ocean, a single wave has its perspective that is distinctive from another wave. But it's still just water. A wave can search all its life for water and never find it. But it is water within, and it is water all around, in fact, the wave's existence is the duality that is not real. Remove this duality, and there is only water, not even the ocean remains. It is my belief, and perhaps I have brushed against it briefly, seen the ox's tail. That there is no individuality, that reality and the experience of it, are one and the same.