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After all what I read about him he was not narcistic at all. Society wants to put this picture on him to make him more evil. He wanted to make suicide many times in his life. He even did not wanted to be called "the fuhrer" in close circles, he just acted normal and dressed like normal when no cameras were put on him. He had a very simple life and no luxury his whole life. He had respect for every people around him and loved children. This is not fake if you see videos about him You put your version of moral over his. Moral is relative. It depends on which time you live, what circumstances you are in. In his view there was no excuse for not destroying the financial system running by jews. He recognized all the suffering in this system trough human history and he wanted to destroy it

Well, it might seem rather obvious, since they find truth they can rest it and nothing rock their boat so to speak! But let us make a comparison with art. Art is also about finding God or truth. Many people become enlightened trough art not even knowing there is a concept for these experiences. However, the art world is full of mental disorders. Just the other day I was listening at a radio station that plays classical music, and covered the work of one particular composer. I don't remember the name, but he was one of the well known composers in history, just below the giants or Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. Anyway, he faced depression in many occasion throughout life, one of his depressions lasted for 5 years where he wasn't able to do anything basically. Also, those giants mentioned above, one can argue that all of them had mental disorders, at least Beethoven who would have had bi polar disorder if he lived to day. But Mozart were highly childish throughout life, had no capability to handle money and face difficulties with when life demanded responsible behaviour. Bash was probably the most sane of those mentioned here. But he had 20 children and was a social catastophe. And look at those painters. Was it Rembrandt who cut his ears of? Salvador Dali was awkward, Picasso was notorious disloyal to his wives, and he had no interests in his own children and grandchildren. Take a look at writers. Dostojevski had severe gambling addiction, Hemingway was an alcoholic and committed suicide. Stig Dagerman(most famous writer is Sweden) killed also committed suicide, so did Karin Boyd(another famous Swedish writer) Take a look at music industry. There is a club, called club 27. Some of the greatest musicians died at that age. Jimmy Hendrix(drugs), Janis Joplin(drugs), Jim Morrison(drugs), Curt Cobain(suicide) and the list goes on. But with spiritual people it's different, although there is a huge link between art and spirituality. All those we like to listening to, Mooji, Tolle, Leo, Sadhguru, Spira etcetera seem like polar opposites to the highly respected artists regarding mental stability. Coincidence?

How are you sure there is no self and everything is an illusion? Then why not to have a reckless life and commit suicide?

Hello Everyone, First off, thank you to any and all kind souls reading this right now. I would gladly appreciate your thoughts on my situation, no matter how short or long. Please comment if you can because I think I'm at my wits end, to be honest. I just have no idea what to do anymore. I don't want to make this too long, but for reference sake - I'm a lady in her mid 20's (25 basically), single, a virgin, been suffering from Depression for years now. Been in Therapy for literally the past 6 months, have chosen to NOT medicate myself (despite being asked to many times - and never had been before), been dealing with very strong feelings and emotions of suicidal thoughts. Especially the past 2 weeks (have been suicidal in general for about 4+ years). I consider myself Spiritual, not religious. I feel like I honestly have no emotional support system, other than from my own Therapist. As a Psychology student actually studying the topic of abnormal psychology recently, I had the chance to further understand where I stand in regards to my depression. I basically found out that I suffer from MDD (Major Depression Disorder) and thankfully, my Therapist said so himself on our last session (about time tbh, was a relief). He was always against labels, so hearing him confirm this was a major breakthrough for me. I have gotten to a point where, I feel like I don't care anymore. In the most neutral yet sad sense of the word. I feel like I don't care anymore about school (University/my education), about a career, about a job, about having a relationship (never had a real one), about having kids, about having a social life (have been lonely for months and lost all the love or pleasure I had in going out with my gf's, literally does nothing for me anymore). I have no motivation anymore and I don't know what to do really. My Therapist advised to me to take responsibility of my life, which I respect and understand. I feel like I know what I SHOULD do, but I just don't really care deep down when I really think about it. It's gotten so bad at times that I'm literally just laying in bed in this emotional pain that feels like white noise in my soul...like I cannot even feel my emotions anymore, I cannot even FEEL MYSELF. I just lay there, not being able to even cry or open my mouth to speak or even drink water (despite being SO thirsty). I feel like I'm losing my humanity and everything that made me...me. I feel like I had such BIG dreams about becoming a Clinical Psychologist and despite that never going to come true, I settled with wanting to become a Therapist instead. I feel like THAT sustained me for a long while, having such dreams...and yet I feel like everything fell apart. Like, no matter how big or how passionate I am about my dream, it doesn't seem to matter anymore. I can still appreciate the beauty in my dreams but feel like I'll never get there because I don't care anymore, or enough... about anything. My Therapist even told me in my last session that "you're born alone, you die alone, and everything in between...even if you're in a relationship, you're actually alone. Even if you have kids, they'll grow up and you're alone again". I was very taken aback by this but ultimately understand and believe him. I broke down in tears and couldn't stop crying, saying how could he say such things to someone who is suicidal, but he said this is the truth of life, sadly. I feel like I have so much potential to do good in school and become an awesome, professional and loving Therapist that truly cares about her job and clients and ultimately to help people in need. I feel like I had such potential to be a soul loving partner and fall in love with a possible soul mate. I feel like I had such such potential to be a Mother too. I feel more than heartbroken by all this, I feel heartbroken to my very soul. To the core of who I really am. Like such a failure in life. I have no idea what to do, I feel so empty and like there is NO solution for me. I refuse to take medication as I believe that even though it MIGHT help me function better, I still believe in my heart of heart's that it won't help with my "I don't care" problem, because let's face it - even if my concentration is better, the fact that I DON'T care, just means that I won't get things done anyway. That's at least how I feel and truly believe. It's born out of me knowing myself enough. My Therapist suggested that, me feeling like I don't care...might be born out of a sadness at the realization that no one can save me. Not my family, not the men I fell in love with, not even him as my Therapist (all his words). I think that's TRUE and I agree with him...but wonder if there might be more than that. I just WISH I could convey how deeply in despair I am by all this. No matter what I do, my heart isn't here. I keep on feeling like suicide is all I have left, in a sense. I cannot study, I don't care about everything which breaks my heart. I have absolutely no idea what the solution is and feel like there is NO solution for me at all. In all honestly, I don't know what to do anymore...even my Therapist told me that he thinks that this is bigger than I, bigger than him and talk therapy. He suggested I take medication but I refuse, like I said. I ask, with all kindness and humility, to please tell me what you think I should do...

In the case of a kundalini crisis this can happen. I hope you are doing better. One thing I see from your post is a lot of anxiety and panic. This can often be a bad combo with kundalini. Even legit spiritual practice and meditation can spark up a kundalini as it did me so the prior post suggesting it, just an f.y.i. it can spur it on. I never had such an experience until I began meditating. I did have some experience, however, when I had mine to know better what to expect were it to occur and to stay in a positive mindset. I also do agree to cut out new agey material and to be careful what information you listen to. Also, if you're still meditating as it said from your link I'd put the breaks on for a bit and pace yourself as it seems like you've overloaded yourself with this. Just like exercising too much your body needs a break. My head hums constantly as well like tinnitus but more hum like. It's not distracting or unpleasant or anything and it'll probably never go away but I'm ok with it. It seems like just a symptom of a nervous system that has sparked up. My whole experience with kundalini has been very pleasant with none of the more negative side effects but I think that is in large part due to me not having any amount of fear or panic throughout the experience. If I had to pinpoint anything it'd be the darker more panic stricken thoughts. Meaning no offense, but I think you gotta relax and chill a little bit. Panic and darker feelings and emotions can cause psychosis to take over and it sort of controls you rather than you controlling it. In a similar way that people can have either a good experience with things like ayahuasca or a negative experience depending upon their emotions or mental state. Maybe try more positive activities and try keeping a more positive mindset. Take it from someone who has experienced intense kundalini, being so anxious and panicked often only makes it worse and it can spur on psychosis if one is not careful. Also, try to avoid darker thoughts like suicide. I never had the thought of suicide and I seriously think that could make this a lot harder thing to go through. I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Yes, it's bizarre, probably one of the most extreme experiences one can have, but I always viewed it as more of a natural occurrence than anything to be worried about. It's also an extremely intense experience so you're going to need to rest a little bit. I think releasing that fear and turning to a brighter mindset is a big one on this. Please try and stay positive and I really hope it does get better.

God or nothingness is there because its just there, how can it not be there? It exist and doesn't exist. It can be otherwise. And otherwise is infinite chain which boils down to that it cannot be otherwise, and cannot not to be otherwise. If you ask HOW, then you can come up with tones of explanations. Its like how rain occurs? Well you can come up with exact process, but it also has many aspects at play, and that can go ad infinitum if you wish. But if you ask WHY. The answer: its just is. And also its just isn't. lal But if you want to know about why there's this very moment. Then think why universe is the way it is. Because its the most sustainable or stable way in which it can exist. Think why earth is round and circling around sun, and sun's going around milky way galaxy. Why gravity is there as it appears to be. Coz its the most sustainable and stable way to exist. Think why universe will collapse from heat one day, because thats how things work, its the most sustainable way. And another word for stable and sustainable is good. Good in a way that allows everything to be. You might say God created world for his joy. Not good and joy in a sense that absolute infinity has special feelings like humans, but joy and good in some way which is beyond our imagination. And in the same time its within our imagination because that joy and goodness is manifested and seen in our feelings that drive us and in literally anything you see around. Why kid plays? For his joy. Why kid cries? He experiences something which doesn't allow him to have joy. Why do we survive? it feels good to survive. Why do we die? For creation to continue it needs to be changed and recreated, otherwise its unsustainable. Why we suffer? We experience something that makes us afraid and doesn't allow us to have joy, Why fear exists? So we can survive and have joy afterwards. If there's no fear, no animal would survive hence evolution would end. Why we go to work? For joy or because we think it can bring us joy. Why we fall in love? Its joy. Why lion hunts antelope? Survival feels good. Why someone's survival goes together with someone's being dead from that? Thats from our human perspective, but from absolute perspective its just how creation can be continued in the most sustainable way. Why people kill people? To survive. Or they think it can bring them joy in the end Why commit suicide? Coz there's no joy, and suicide can save you from no joy. Why hitler was the way he was? He thought its good for him, his ppl and his ideas. Why attain moksha? To escape life, don't have experience anymore so no more non-joyful things. Or because liberation from existence is more joy even compared to joyful existence. Why some ppl seek truth? Because its good for them. Why some do not seek? Because its good for them. Why ppl lie? Coz they think it will do good or they need to survive. Why live? Coz it feels good. Why don't live? Coz its better compared to life which can be non-joyful sometimes. Why we do evil to others or to ourselves? Why we cant stop doing bad even when we know its bad for us? Because our instincts or motivations or thinking that are designed to survive and they assume that its good. Or you can say its god that doing all shit to us, then god thinks its good thing to do. Why we label something as evil? because we think its good for our life to do so. Why say absolute consciosness has no reason to be? It feels truer for some hence better. Why say absolute consciousness has some good reason to be? It feels truer for some hence better. So we can say that consciosness is just is. We can also say that its just good. We can also say its all bad, and god is asshole. And why do we say that? It feels good for us to say it. It can also feel bad, and want to feel bad sometimes because its just how our survival machine works to survive. We can also say there's no meaning or good, its just silence, and we say it because it feels truer and better. Man you can't abstain from being. Language of god is silence, everything else is translation. Doesn't matter what you say or do, you always driven by infinity which has its only aim - TO BE and NOT TO BE simultaneously.

Actually you got it wrong. Life is suffering but what he meant by exiting the cycle of suffering (in this case rebirth) is to become enlightened and then when you die you aren’t reborn again. Of course this assumes that rebirth is an actual phenomenon and not just something they made up to keep people from escaping through suicide. Second, any claims of joy after enlightenment is pure speculation. We are assuming a state exists and that they reached it and didn’t just stop at something that felt good. There is something to be said about enlightenment being detachment, the only way to be happy is to ignore the hard reality we live in. While Buddha did say there is a “way out” there isn’t evidence that it’s the case. Ultimately the claims and argument of enlightenment boil down to “because I said so” and that just doesn’t fly. I can say that existence isn’t a joy after enlightenment after speaking with others who claim to reach it. Finallt Leo isn’t worth asking jack about. Ever since I saw his view on skepticism his credibility took a nose dive. Not only did he butcher pyrrhonism but selectively applies it to things that contradict him. Reading books by zen practitioners or Osho don’t prove anything, all you are getting is their view on life.

I think that largely depends on your brain chemistry and genetics (that call needs to be made on a case by case basis). Suicide is most certainly an option for certain people. Sometimes life is shit and solutions are incredibly improbable. Sometimes it won't get better. Sometimes it will. I think most humans vastly underestimate how painful life can be. But at the same time, there are genuinely people that do enjoy life as a whole (winning the genetic or upbringing lottery). I personally don't do it because of fear. It's that simple. I am also aware of how pleasant life can be when the ego gets out of the way. If I can get to the ego-less space in 10 years, I think it'll be worth the pain. On the other hand, if no progress is shown as I get older, I wouldn't be completely opposed to ending it.

As Camus wrote in the Myth of Sisyphus, committing suicide because you can't see a meaning in life is absurd since that claim implies that some absolute truth about the nature of existence is available to you. Which is false, because you are merely a human being, with all the accompanying cognitive limitations. I would comment that you're operating based on logical assumptions. But why does existence has to be logical? Human capacity for reasoning seems to be a by-product of evolution, which we use today for the oddest purposes like justifying one's existence - or suicide. If you want to alleviate suffering, you can devote your life to hardcore spiritual practice, become enlightened and live in a constant state of bliss away from society. Why not get the best of both worlds? I am not particularly interested in entering this deep and murky discourse of meaning and purpose. It would probably take years to master, and what for - to satisfy my need for logic? So that my life would be logically impeccable? I couldn't give less shit about it. I should admit, however, that looking into these things helped me clarify my position towards life. Knowing that I will die and that I want neither to kill myself nor to become a mystic/hardcore philosopher/scientist (who might believe that science will find meaning in the future, when humanity as we know it ceases to exist), I'm choosing to play the game, even though I didn't ask for it. And to get as much happiness and fulfillment as is available to me. Luckily, the problem of happiness is much more down-to-earth and can actually be solved.

Such statements are made from a position of luxury (especially from the context of modernity). As it stands the majority of the population lives in a form of poverty and illness (just look at India). Not to mention the “worth living” is a bias, as humans have a tendency to remember the good aspects of life and downplay the bad. A “life well lived” is highly subjective as to be a meaningless counterpoint to existence as a whole. One merely has to look at nature to see a constant cycle of pain and death, but also birth. Even “making life worth living” speaks to the undesirable nature of existence. One has to actually do something to make life worth it, while it takes nothing to invite pain. Even as we age the quality of life goes down as the body breaks down. Overall the score isn’t in favor of “life being worth living”. Even some animals commit suicide when the pain is too much, or through grief. Making the point about trees is moot since they can’t take their lives.

@Thanatos13 I had the same insight. Out of curiosity, I'll try to word this question as best I can, what is your intention right now? Not for this forum but your intention you feel underneath everything. In other words, what goal do you intuitively feel deep down in this moment? Edit: I'll also add.. I don't think people really answered your question. It looks like they're mostly just telling you that you lack perspective or that you're overseeing something. Maybe that's true and depending on how you want to interpret it, it can be useful. But looking at what you said, everything aside I do see where you're coming from. Actually it's where I'm coming from to, to a degree. And I'd say you're right. Living is optional. That's all there is to it. Whether you do it or not and why is a whole other can of worms. But everything beyond answering you directly seems gratuitous and an overstep. The one part of your statement I'm a bit confused about though is "suicide is a more expident alternative". To what goal do you mean by this?

shadow boxing, part 42. I'm so goddamn depressed and suicidal and angry right now. At everything. At the world. At Dad. People should be waking up, not falling for this State of the Union bullshit! GAH! Is this true? Fuck yes! Spiral dynamics? The evolution of the psyche? This is the 21st century, and there's still racism! You've gotta be fucking kidding me! Why can't people be more like me? Is this really really true? Yes. Raising consciousness is the prime directive of life, and most people are asleep to it. How do you feel and act when you believe that thought? Furious. Especially at Dad, with his petty little unconscious ego defense mechanisms. My God, wake the fuck up so I can have a decent conversation with you! You're so damn rigid! It's like I'm stepping on eggshells when I talk to you! I have to purposely close myself down and be quiet and agreeable just to please you so I can stay in your house and be a good boy so that I don't have to live out on the streets because I'm too neurotic to support myself otherwise. In other words, Dad, why don't you change your ways and get into PD so I can connect with you instead of having to go out there into the cold dark world myself in order to find my tribe and risk failure and rejection in the process? (Wow, that one's an egoic mouthful.) Sad. This world is going down the shitter. Our ways are not sustainable. We're all going to die prematurely. Nihilistic. Why even bother in a world like this? What's the point? This is a fucking zoo that I don't want to be a part of. We all spiral in and out of nothingness, with a few peak experiences but mostly suffering in between. As human beings with a separate sense of self hard-wired into the brain, we are hard-wired to suffer. We huddle in tribes to avoid the black hole in the center of our existence, adopt beliefs that limit reality and create the illusion of security, and grow like a cancer. What's one stress-free reason to keep these thoughts? I don't have to participate in any of it. I can just kill myself instead. I said stress-free. The act of suicide is very stress-inducing. None. Who would you be without these thoughts? Just someone who does my own business with no concern for those who are asleep. They'll wake up when they wake up. I'd be at peace with it. I'd go elsewhere and find people I can connect with on a deeper level. Maybe I'd admit myself to some facility so I can at least learn how to talk with people without debilitating anxiety. I'd love mom and dad and let them do their thing, while I do my thing. You secretly believe you should be waking up. Yes... I've been distracting myself a lot lately. Not being present. Cutting meditation short. Not doing the work. You secretly believe people shouldn't be more like you. No, they shouldn't. I'm a neurotic mess. I don't accept myself as I am. You secretly believe you're not sustainable. No, I'm not. I would be terrible as a father. At the rate I'm unraveling, I will die prematurely, psychologically and perhaps literally. You secretly believe people who aren't ready shouldn't be waking up. No, they shouldn't. It's a long, arduous process that takes lots of emotional labor. Not everyone is ready for it in this lifetime. You secretly believe you're a fucking zoo that you don't want to be a part of. True dat. I feel out of control, my body feels like a prison, nothing seems to work for me or with me, and I want out. You secretly believe you should wake the fuck up so you can have a decent conversation with your Dad. Yes. I'm too enamored with my own projected bullshit to actually see the soul that is my Dad. Maybe if I let go of all my anger, we could joke around like we used to. You are rigid. Yes. I'm militant about PD and spirituality. Anyone I see who supports tradition and stagnation bothers me. And yet, by holding onto my militant views about PD and spirituality and expecting people to change, I myself am being rigid. Are you willing to let people stay asleep? Are you willing to let them fall for the "State of the Union bullshit," as you call it? Yes and yes. It's too painful to stay angry. If you get triggered in the future, you'll know your work isn't done. Understood. Can you let all of this go now? Yes. I'm sorry for all the bullshit. It's all okay, love. Will you let it go? Yes.

I'm just realizing there is so much material here, and I'm just starting, so I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive, it will be welcome if you pass me some links in that case The thing is: I am afraid of following the spiritual path; I'm no longer sure if I may incline for God or for the devil, and altough I know it is a duality, it generates terror in me to think that I could get stuck just in front of it, face to face with Nothing, without being able to trasncend it. My question: how can I do then to get to iluminate myself and not to derive to desesperation, psicosis or suicide? But I am 21 years old on the other hand, I did not finish my university studies, I am not financially independent, should I not be more focused on my ego, on art, as an artist who creates works, instead of going to meditation retreats and taking psychedelics, for a while? A little bit of context: I had a really strong trip with mushrooms; it was also an enlightment expierence. Nothing that happened me before

Perhaps this is a foolish question, but isn't suicide then the fastest way to enlightenment? Not if there is a movement of becoming. That’s the point. What this word enlightenment points to is a ceasing of becoming. The psychological entity I call the me is a movment in time/thought. The self “thought” and it’s fragmentary and divisive nature within the psychological field breeds conflict and desire. Any movement of desire is a movement of thought. If desire must cease to reach this “enlightenment” then how can the pursuit in becoming bring this transformation about? Do u see this friend?

@Vlad Ropotica Be careful. If you cannot meditate in a healthy way, then just stop. Don't play games here or act macho. You need to evaluate when you've bitten off more than you can chew, and take a step back. There's nothing wrong with that. You can always resume later. Don't make this into some kind of mad dash to enlightenment. Let it happen organically. We don't want people here hurting themselves with these techniques. It gives this entire field a bad reputation and turns people off. No responsible teacher or guru would tell you to continue on your current path. You're clearly overdoing it. There is a big difference between meditating hardcore, and actually considering suicide. Hardcore meditators are NOT suicidal.

Thought of suicide is an attempt at avoidance. There is no avoiding or escaping from this 'dark night of the soul' -- not even in death of the body-form. The soul will remain, and its shadow will follow it. The darkness is an invitation to investigate it. The more it is avoided, the more insistent it will become, until it is investigated full on, no matter how the body-form may be disposed of. Let the shadow be the guide to the light which exposes the segregated self-identity at the source of all suffering, so that it can be dispelled. Then the body-form is no burden, but just a suit for exploring this relational experience, shadow-free.

the all-seeing eye. All of this emotional purgation over the past week has created a clearing in me. I feel less like Squidward and more like the all-seeing eye of Sauron, minus the evilness. (Well, I'll always be a little evil.) I see so much more: How I've used spirituality and PD for the past few years to avoid socializing and being a part of the societal framework. How I've created and maintained environments that emulate the environment I had during childhood (inside most of the day, spending time with pets, staring at a screen playing video games [Replaced by learning and watching YT videos] in a state of constant bodily tension, decisions made for me by mommy and daddy [Guess who's back home? Guess who's having difficulty deciding what to do with his life?]). How I've used distractions to dissociate from painful bodily tensions and numb body awareness. How I've used suicidal ideation to campaign against living life. Suicide: A paradoxical survival mechanism in which the psyche plans to kill itself not because it wants to, but because it's avoiding its own death in life. Live life enough, and aspects of the psyche will die. Through suicide, the psyche can bypass that ensnaring, sometimes unbearable, emotionally laborious process. (Honestly, going through those nearly unbearable moments myself, I can see why some people would choose suicide.) How when I spend too much time alone, I get paradigm-locked in my head and feel depressed. Again, now I see the importance of human interaction - with anyone. Even interacting with my unrelatable (and lovable) parents last night massively uplifted my mood. In the context of evolution, it's easy to forget that we humans are tribal animals. How brisk physical exercise can also uplift mood, help me lose my mind and come to my senses. How I unconsciously hold tension in my body, especially in the lower abdomen. How I "try" to meditate and "try" to do yoga, expecting to get something out of these practices, rather than savoring the practice itself. On a similar vein, noticing the difference between efforting and effortlessness. How effortlessness comes from consciously "letting go." How there's nothing to do, nowhere to go, and no one to be, and how I've ironically used PD and spirituality to avoid these bitter truths. How I blindly believe Leo sometimes without thinking things through myself. How I distract myself from doing real inner work - sometimes through sneaky ways like reading PD books. How even after reading The Six Pillars of Self Esteem, going through different exercises, reading through old journal entries, practicing self-love and forgiveness, I still have low self-esteem. How I use MBTI and other tests to promote victim mentality (e.g. I'm an INFJ, I'm just wired this way, I have ADD, I'm so fucked up beyond repair, society's not made for people like me, nobody understands me, etc.), which likely stems from getting loving attention from mommy when I played the victim card back in the day. How I wonder if anyone reading this actually got this far. How I have a lot of repressed anger from playing the Good Boy role all these years. How I genuinely enjoy writing these entries because they're amusing to me and help collect my thoughts. How I used to fish for reputation points when they were still around, and how I still sometimes check the forum expecting a notification. I've been effectively Pavlov'ed. How I still try to hold my life together in the subtlest of ways. And oh so much more. Now for the Leo clichés: I've only scratched the surface. I could write for HOURS on each individual bullet point. There's lots of nuance here, so be careful. Most people don't understand how deep this goes. Do you want to be enlightened and work at 7-11? All right, that's it. Please click the "like" button... oh wait, shit!

The bad thing is that I am lost. I dont know what to do. i dont have directions. Here also I get contradicting responses, some say dont think, some say think. I am lost to the point that I dont know if I should strive to get better or just leave it and not have attachment to life. To the point I say why to run away from pain and death, why not to let have a miserable life or commit suicide. There is no meaning in anything anyway. What is the point to live happy or unhappy if eventually I will die and it will not matter what a life I had. But my instincts say: live, avoid pain, live happy life. Enjoy every moment. Love. Marry. Have kids. Get old. Years ago I found the facebook profile of the 20 years old guy who jumped off a building writing a status that, he cannot bear it anymore. I investigated his profile and I saw that he was once a believer, muslim, who then started to rationalize life and became an atheist (just like me) and questioned the meaning of the life and was debating with his friends about the life, existence, about its meaninglessness. His parents took him to psychotherapists, but his state did not improve and he committed suicide. I was so scared that it would happen to me as well. When I say I should not believe in my mind, who says it? Not my mind? Can anything else in me can understand, speak, decide, contemplate besides mind? I try to quit thinking. But when I give instructions myself how to cope with my current state or figure out something related to my state, dont I use my mind? I read Echart Tolle's story how he got enlightened in midnight. He says: "I cannot live with myself any longer." This was the thought that kept repeating itself in my mind. Then suddenly I became aware of what a peculiar thought it was. `Am I one or two? If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the `I' and the `self' that `I' cannot live with." "Maybe," I thought, "only one of them is real." I was so stunned by this strange realization that my mind stopped. So did he use his mind to get enlightened or what? Is not no-mind impossible? If I dont believe my thoughts what can I believe? Should I have hope for happiness or be without expectations? I have endless questions. Endless. And I worry if I dont find answers to them I will not have a direction to recover. By the way Mighty Mouse and Natasha recommend think and resolve my questions. I got confused. If I catch myself in flow I will try to sustain it and spoil everything. Sometimes when I meditate I notice that I have not thinking for seconds and meditate very well, instantly I spoil it and start to think. Or for example yesterday suddenly I noticed that I feel ok and there is no fear and tried to sustain it and pain and fear came back.

You'd be surprised how many people like him you'd find in jails or mental institutions or just homeless, they were called the crazy ones because no one had any idea what they were on about. Even Nikola Tesla was considered crazy and only 100+ years later people finally starting to see him as one of the smartest people to ever live because now many are catching up to his level of consciousness/understanding. Most people like Charles just knew too much and didn't know how to maintain this understanding because especially those times there were hardly any guides for self realization. Picture Leo trying to make videos and explain all this 50 years ago. I can't imagine how many out there committed suicide in the past because everyone misunderstood them and that they realized it was pointless or actually convinced themselves they were crazy since they were the only ones they knew with a different perspective.

I probably went through several ego deaths in the last few months, yet the ego came back with vengeance. I dont hate myself, I dont hate my body, I wouldnt do anything to it, but the stories in my mind just wont stop, and they have been going on like this for 6 months now and I wish I would not have the urge to identify with the thoughts. I keep thinking that many people would have already commited suicide if they were in my shoes, although I dont feel so aware of myself. The ego really has a big fear of realizing the truth, I think it is called upper (not so good) and lower (ego realizes it is an illusion) death drive. So, when I first meditated earlier last year and observed my thoughts as the observer, a deep peace settled in, wasnt that ego death? So why doesnt observing work anymore? The last months, I literally went into levels in my mind I thought never exist because it made me feel so damn surreal and I wonder what a normal person feels like without knowing what a (devilish) tool they are lead by. It makes me go crazy having these stories leading my life, but they go so deep and touch my whole existence. Damn maybe I even had an enlightening moment, but I rather feel like there are some broken neurons in my brain. I sometimes wonder if I even have a brain because I feel so crazy.

pure aloneness. I am unraveling. I see my life slowly crumbling before my eyes. My dream is turning into a nightmare. Ego is using everything up its arsenal to prevent the unraveling, especially thoughts of suicide. Suicidal ideation - the ultimate defense mechanism against dying - the ultimate irony. My body, my mind, everything is contracting. Too afraid to die, but too afraid to live. The self-loathing demon spawns in my head prevent me from moving further. They are voices from the past, telling me how much of a worthless piece of shit I am, how I don't deserve anything at all, how I should believe them because they're true. But that's not the hardest part. The hardest part is realizing that there's nothing to do, nowhere to go, and no one to be. Total self-annihilation. The achievement-oriented life was a sham all along. There is nothing that is lacking, but I want something to lack. I want a reason to go on. I want a god-given purpose, live a god-given life, be a paragon to behold. I want to be remembered. I want a lasting legacy. I want to survive as an ego! I never asked for this, damnit! But I just had to tug at the curtain, didn't I. After my friend's suicide, I had no choice. I just had to be the fuck-up that slinks in the corner to find the big gaping void behind the back door. Most of all, I don't want to be alone. But this is where true spirituality leads - pure aloneness as a direct experience. Always alone, no sense of any "others." Having a glimpse of this last night made me scream and cry in horror. I know I know, dramatic as hell. But not to the ego - my life is on the line. Me.

Do you mean I should keep thinking to wake up? When somebody says this I get defensive of not thinking, because my first problem arose because of long thinking when I was 13 (In 2000). I remember clearly, how I thought about life, existence, Allah (I was muslim), soul and etc several consequent days and jumped to a conlusion that there is no Allah, or any other extraordinary omnipotent power, there is no soul, nothing is sacred, we are just biologic creatures with mind. I was shocked. As if something very valuable disappeared inside me. I fell into emptiness. The fear took the whole me. I tried to kick those thoughts away, but could not. The following days I thought more and I could not understand why we are here, who am I, can I trust myself, what if everything is an illusion. Very freak thoughts came to my mind which I cant articulate well. When there is a period that I am very busy with something (material things), these thoughts dont come or come rarely. But since 2013 I feel terrible and on antidepressants. When I contemplate existential stuff, I get worse. Do you think, I should think no matter how I feel? I have been meditating since June and since December it seems I have decreased the amount of thinking and daydreaming. But have not seen any improvement in my mental state. Horrible. Constant pain. And I desperately want relief. When fear is overwhelming I panic, cry, beg. When fear is not that strong I embrace it. I embrace pain. Especially during meditation. My heart seems it will stop, but I go on. However neither pain nor fear disappear. Today I told myself I would not involve my mind until 1st March. So after that date I may start to think and seek answers. I was somehow successful in it. Although pain went up, I tried to stay in present moment and neglect mind, no matter how insecure I felt. But as soon as fear came, I tumbled down to my mind again in order to find immediate relief with the help of thinking. The worst is when I am outside, because even in such a situation I dont want to show my weakness to strangers (I care other people's opinion so much) and therefore fear doubles outside. I know why I need to answer my questions. I want to find absoluteness. So I wont get lost. I want to see the meaningfulness. I dont see meaning. But I guess I would not see meaning even if there was a God. I would still say why and feel discontent. I remember when I was 13 I imagined eternal life in heaven and got scared. I thought dying and not having a soul is better than eternal life. But actually when I feel terrible everything sounds scary to me. I am on treatment since 2013. I have seen two different psychotherapists. I want to neglect the pain and live my daily life outside of my mind, but it consumes my energy. Can anybody with a strong headache dance? Nor me with strong mental pain. What to do then? Meditation? Can I get better without enlightenment, or will I suffer until I get rid of ego (which I doubt will happen to me) ? Is it better to neglect mind completely until I am doing something related to my job? The more I neglect the mind, the worse I feel, sometimes a huge pain, which I think I wont handle. But it seems the only way to recover. Should I decrease mind day by day or stop it abruptly? I have quitted cigarette, cannabis, alcohol. Is quitting mind also like them? I have a huge emptiness inside me, which seems to produce fear. Yes I try to avoid pain and bad feelings. I try to focus on something else, because I am afraid I will not be able to handle those feelings. Are not all thoughts different and independent of each other? Should I believe in fairy tails, happy ends or live without expectations? Do you think existential thoughts are easily defined concepts? Actually sometimes I dont get those thoughts, but get those feelings that everything is alien, stranger. Everything is dark. I want to live so much. I think this is also a problem. I should face the possibility that I may suffer forever or may commit suicide. Eternal pain is sometimes inevitable.

Ok...I was watching Leos enlightening video...then he said...you dont control your arms and stuff and you dont have free will. And my mind which is still very fragile went into full delusion mode and I again felt like I am destined to commit suicide and that nothing will change that. I tried to explain it with my mind, I tried searching in my mind for who I am and that brought me in this state again. I know I shouldnt have done it, stick to my methods of finally getting on a healthy path, and Ive been I guess, but now I feel traumatized just by my stupid mind and my reaction to the thoughts. I instantly lost all of my connection to my loved ones again. Dont we have free will in a sense of reacting to events and thoughts? I am shaking so bad at the moment. I have an identity issue, I cant identify with a self anymore, for example, I cant imagine the observer oberserving the thoughts anymore, it just doesnt work anymore, and I dont know who I am, why am I a body if I am not it and just awareness observing it? I feel very suicidal at the moment...wait I cant die anyway, can I? All I feel is the person I think I am wants to die. Maybe I went a bit too far this time. I feel like even if I recovered I would never be functioning delusional-free after this experience. Ok I really really need to know how to have a healthily working ego again, it is mentally destroying me.

I'm very sorry to hear what you are going through. Just a few suggestions: 1) If you are meditating (but also while not meditating) Be mindful of when those compulsive thoughts arise, and when they do, ask yourself, "what is the feeling that these thoughts are interpreting." I think a lot of times, certain thoughts arise as a mechanism to dissociate from an underlying feeling that is misunderstood. It can be fear, sadness, or any other feeling that the mind has deemed too intense to actively feel. If there is a feeling lying outside of the thoughts, it needs to confronted. This may or may not make it go away, but just allowing the feeling to enter into awareness might show you that it isn't unbearable. It seems that right now you are focused only on the thoughts, and are trying to derive an answer as a means to prevent the apparently bad feeling to go away. What the mind will do is deaden feelings of intense experience to try and avoid them. Then we relate and identify with these feelings, which breathes life into the thought processes. After a while, we feel that we are deadened or incomplete, because we unconsciously avoid a portion of the natural expression of life that we are. Think of the feelings as aliveness. 2) I would really read Already Free by Bruce Tift. It's not going to provide any definitive answers, but it might resonate with your experience. 3) Don't be ashamed to seek out help. It can be from a therapist, or a Buddhist monk, or anyone that you choose. Suicide isn't the solution, because there isn't a problem. You are aliveness. You are existence. Without you there is nothing. I'm sending love your way. I hope you find some peace.

In Obsessive Compulsive Disorder there is a branch called "existential thoughts" and also "existential anxiety". But some people assume you should think deep and find an answer. I have existential thoughts since I am 13. They all without an exclusion give me fear, discomfort, depression, demotivation and etc. I have been meditating since June. My state deteriorates day by day, I feel like being on the edge or close to it. Want to cry. Because am so fed up of it. It has been 17 years pain. Do you think I should involve in them and seek an answer or stop thinking (at least trying)? I doubt I will ever find an answer by thinking, I even doubt there is an answer. I watched Leo's video about unconditional happiness. I would say I have unconditional unhappiness and my successes and gains dont give me happiness. I feel trapped. But I also dont want to commit suicide. (That is the reason I have endured it for 17 years). But I am afraid I have limits and beyond that limit I will commit suicide if I dont get relief. I have endless questions in my mind. Should I stop seeking answers and just live and observe the life? What can I do besides meditation for raising awareness?