Search the Community

Some commentary from this mornings I CHING reading is relevant to this topic. Referring to hexagram 46 with a changing 6 line that I got in throwing the coins - ,,,,,,,,,This line can also refer to a person who thinks he has been spiritually awakened. To bring himself back into harmony he needs to free himself of the self image of the awakened person.

Not everything he says is wrong, but his worldview is generally-speaking so misguided and corrupt you'd be better served just skipping over it. It's not like there aren't 1000 better teachings available. Anyone who would go on PragerU is not to be taken seriously. Find yourself better sources. That's my point. See, it would be a mistake to take a propaganda source seriously, as though it was on the same level as an awakened teaching. This is the mistake of false equivalency. Being openmidned does not mean you let people propagandize you. It takes nuance to be able to discern what is and what isn't propaganda. He is a saavy exploiter of the culture wars. That's why he rose in popularity. Not because he makes good intellectual arguments. Those arguments are egoic justifications. They come from lack of self-awareness. Also, don't confuse popularity with truthfulness or quality. They are usually inversely proportional.

@tsuki Maybe it is my assumptions about him, from what I've heard. But he seems to say, that you need something else than yourself. Why would he have to suffer so much, when he is Awakened?

I had the exact same thoughts and concerns as you have, before I had a really profound and authentic awakening experience. For the ego the idea that everything is one can be very grim or very beautiful, depending on how you look at it. But it can never be grasped by the thinking mind. A lot of what Leo says in his video is the same information I received through my own experience. You the ego who has these mind based ideas and fears about enlightenment is not the one who wakes up. The character in the dream can't wake up, as he is a part of it. The absolute beauty of life, can not be appreciated through unawakened eyes. I'm not saying that I'm enlightened or an awakened being. I'm not. The ego is very much still there. You don't see it and then spend the rest of your life blissed out. A lot of integration has to be done after, in almost every case, I believe. But when the seeing goes deep enough, you can not unsee it or forget it. The interpretations of what you saw will always be wrong to an extend though, when taking over by the mind.

She definitely is expressing a conceptual idea of spirituality. @DrewNows @purerogue Although she is suggesting that this is the only way 'true spirituality' is expressed and something other than that is 'distorted' and 'impure', which are the words she used. Presence of being transcends all concepts of characteristics in expression one would have about it. The 'still' and 'empty' isn't any more 'spiritual' than the 'active' and 'full' because being is present through all expressions to one who is awakened. Accept the transitory nature of experience that spirituality is all expression and having conceptual notions about only certain ones being 'true spirituality' sets up expectations that could serve to inspire desire to emulate only certain characteristics instead of being present. Now don't confuse what I'm saying to mean I suggest that she is 'wrong' or that it isn't 'true'. I'm just pointing out that she said it isn't about those dichotomous concepts and yet she went on to portray them in the duality of what is and isn't 'true spirituality'. Being present isn't limited to just the stoic placid sterility of the conceptual empty stillness. Being present is what it is even through the transitory human nature of our thoughts and emotions happening in a manifest existence that swirls around in activity. @Mu_ BAHA!

I spoke with Jan about Kundalini Shakti about such a case. Here's what he said: You probably had Kundalini arousal, and not awakening. Awakening is possible only when the knots in the subtle body are untied, either by hardcore practice or by Shaktipat. And Kundalini awakening doesn't gurantee bliss asap. It gurantees that awakened kundalini will guide you towards liberation. It's up to you to follow that guidance,

@thesmileyone Not all sahaja samadhis are equal. Baseline awakened states vary greatly in depth.

What's the point, understanding reality doesnt seem to elicit happiness (like having a sated curiousity? really?) Like are you literally in constant euphoria when awakened? There is no suffering, no anxiety, no depression, etc but what about the positives (it is not like its some stimulating video game or sex that's ego , so what is there? Fulfillment? That seems to be weak) Literally it seems like the only reason anything is done is for greater joy (not only hedonism but other joys or overall greater "experiences") so how does enlightenment bring this and does understanding and being God elicit this?

@Leo Gura So would the crutch be dependent in the sense that you would lose awakened and consciousness states if you lost the finances and ressources to support your 5 Meo DMT lifestyle? What's actually wrong/detrimental with using 5 Meo DMT consistently, yeah it can be considered a crutch but why does that matter? Also wait a second.. so what I am hearing is that no matter what those 20 years of meditation are waiting for your ass if want lasting results anyway? Regardless what is the recommended (most efficient and effective) path? Doing mininum practices to build the foundation then maximizing 5 Meo DMT (to the edge of where it starts to hurt you)?

That's it right there. The picture shows two "people". One in the center is "aware" of its true nature, and the other has no clue. Your body/mind incarnation will act out the mirror image of your current identification. The one who is awakened, his body/mind would act our accordingly - in that, the Awareness beeming out of that person's point of awareness is aware that it is simply awareness, and abides in that. Knowing what unfolds before "them", is simply unfolding, spontaneously and nothing more. This one block in the picture is talking to itself for eternity and is truly unbounded in all directions and in infinte dimensions. It creates with an infinite intelligence and all this arises. All of IT is itself! And it is self aware as the infinite whole and at each infitesmial point within its creation so to speak. The cube like room in the picture should not be confused with the border when understanding the full thing. To picture that, take in the white space to be part of Reality. There's no outside to Reality.

If you’ve never met her, you don’t know. Someone can be loving 22 hours of the day and still be a raging moron another 2 hours. You’re telling me that 2 hours of being a raging moron shouldn’t be addressed? I can be a smart contributor of this forum 99% of the time but can still have a post where I act like an arrogant know-it-all. That behavior of being an arrogant know-it-all in that post is what’s being addressed. Theres a lot of non-dual keyboard warriors that are totally full of it on here (not saying this person is nor do I care nor does it matter) that dilute a lot of posts and actually lack total compassion because they’re dedicated to their non dual elitist talk and defending this front they have of being some awakened blah blah blah. This needs to be addressed more actually.

Wow The damn video recognizes it is being played! Who to share this with!? Only myself. There is nobody other than myself who I can share this with for there are no others! Wow. The only way i can technically truly talk to or speak with myself is if I talk thru SoonHei with another "awakened" preson (presence) How amazing does the moment feel when one enlightened form "meets" another enlightened form. Infinte Love and compassion because it is literally YOURSELF which is in others. One heart beats in us all.

because you haven't awakened in the level of Heart yet. checkout some adyashanti stuff on this subject. i think his message can help you. also, feel free to pm me if you want to talk about details that you're uncomfortable sharing here.

Sadhguru for sure. I also did the Inner Engineering and shambhavi event. The shaktipat or energy transference from the shambhavi kriya event is for real. Definitely awakened the kundalini for me. Dude is a total rockstar . He's almost,but not quite, Big Guru Balls level.

How to absorb your awakenings experiences fully within one's body-mind-spirit and inform one's every experience! How to integrate awakening states to get to awakened stages? Specially when access to these states are gained through psychedelics. Body relaxation? Writing / Journaling?

There are probably uncountable meditative samadhi states. A very number of awakened states (stable samadhi states) as well. With varying depths and flavors. Neither stable sober samadhis, nor meditative samadhis are liberation. The meditative ones are temporary & 99 percent of the stable ones are still defiled, distorted and limited due to subconsious defilements. Full enlightenment only comes with the total eradication of the subconsious walls, limitations, defilements, and deep karmic impressions that go way deeper than you would think.

Just finished watching his recent vid, some of the things he got insights about I basically came to the same conclusion through reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Marcus probably didn't have 5 Meo DMT or anything like that, but certainly understood the Whole. In his work, he tells people to submit to their lot, the gods would only give you something you could handle, unless it was time to die; which is part of the design. There are no accidents, etc. Basically a lot of stuff Leo was saying. But some may reject this, as I did before because the 'problem of evil' 1.) From those who have an issue wrapping around the concept of "All Good" think of the term "good" as meaning = IS. Goodness as a distinction, really becomes meaningless without badness, in a logical sense, but this is beyond logic. Take for instance, an author of a book: The author must write into existence, a protagonist and antagonist; without each other, there can be no story. The author is not evil for making a super villain or allowing good people in the story to die by the super villains' hand. To you it all a good story and in the end, the hero wins and goes on to make the world a better place...just as Leo means by "the greater good." God is the author of reality, writing (or thinking) things into existence; or rather, changing/evolving them (as they always have existed). The author takes his ideas and transforms them into words; using already existing ink and paper and the sheer will of his imagination. God does the same; it takes what already exists and transforms it. All that exists is himself, thus he is just evolving himself. 2.) In regards to his example of the drunk driver killing someone, saying that it is all good, or rape etc, sounds a bit extreme, but having a cosmic mindset, and being everything; you (god) are the one getting raped and run over. Furthermore, without those 'evils,' evolution of various things could not happen. "evil" acts as a the driver of evolution; similar to suffering pushing you to enlightenment. Also, you (god) are the one doing the raping and running over. Now of course from our ego-self, none of us would condone raping or running people over, nor would anyone of us want to do that, or happen to us or those who love, and it is because we know that such things could happen and do happen, that we work towards PREVENTING such things like passing laws and taking action. Although we cannot stop these things, we can change the world into a better place BECAUSE of those things. Imagine total freedom allowing people to rape and kill each other without consequence? How would that be good? Furthermore, we have our nature: Some of us mini-gods are the gods of death and destruction, like this psychopath NZ mass shooter; others are the mini-gods of life, like doctors and nurses; some of us the mini-gods of knowledge, like philosophers or scientists. Each of us have our roles in the Whole. A doctor would have no job if there wasn't diseases; without diseases, there would be no immune system to evolve and upgrade against them. There is no infinite existence without "evil" , because infinite must include things we would perceive as evil, but also because good and evil are two sides of the same coin, expressed as the Yin Yang. 3.) I don't think there is any final point of enlightenment, nor could it ever be fully realized. I think that is enlightening in of itself. That does not mean do not continue to pursue so-called enlightenment which is just another term of spiritual EVOLUTION (key word), because it is in our nature to continue to evolve for OUR own good. No one goes around trying to devolve themselves on purpose. But in a logical sense, an infinite reality could never be fully realized by us individuals. I don't even think God knows the extent of its own infinite nature. 4.) Infinite Causes: Infinite causes to me mean no cause at all. Something that has infinite amount of causes is affected by everything simultaneously, thus NO single cause is responsible for it. This means things are affected by the past, present, and FUTURE of events (all which exist simultaneously beyond our perception). Take for example a ball being dropped down a well: The 'cause' you would think is the hand dropping the ball, is this person doing it now (present), but there are reasons for them to do it (past), but also the well and its position attracting the ball, which hasn't hit the bottom yet (future), is a cause. Another example is an asteroid flying through space and coming towards the Earth, the Earth is also causing it to come towards it. 5. Infinity in its entirety has no one specific center point, and like Leo said, everything is the center of existence. Thus every point is a point of an enlightened state. For example, no one makes a bad choice on purpose; they go off the information they have at the time, which is their highest state of 'enlightenment' in that point in time. A 'mistake' is the realization after the fact that the decision was "bad" causing an issue in which the person must endure and overcoming adversity to evolve and become stronger, unless it leads to their physical death and evolution in that sense is physically impossible. So there are no mistakes; in fact, many of your mistakes made you who you are today. Moreover, if everything had gone your way, many good things would not have happened at all. I take a look at my misfortunes and said to myself if even ONE of these things happened the opposite way, NOTHING today would be the same: Had I not left the club promoter scene, I would have probably ended up in Vegas; in an endless life of hedonism, having ZERO knowledge of what I do now, and even more so, I would not have my wonderful wife and son, in the forms that they exist in. Perhaps I would have a different wife or son, or just illegitimate kids, who knows, but I would not have what I have now. The same goes with the Marine Corps, which I foolishly joined to fight "terrorism" and all the BS fed to us. Had I not endured the Marine Corps and all the BS lies, I would not have awakened and become a big influencer in the anti-war scene. I also would not have ANY of the benefits I get now which I can support my family with; without being caught in the rat race. In other words, if I hadn't suffered immensely, gotten PTSD, and everything else, I would be stuck in he rat race and never have the time to research and spiritually evolve. All of us have a similar story in a different way. Anyway, those are a few of my insights from his insights that I wanted to share.

@PT89 Read some of this guy’s posts. nhttps://www.actualized.org/forum/profile/14365-ethankahn/ In my opinion, the most awakened person I’ve ever seen.

What I'm saying aligns with the best spiritual traditions. Almost all of them talk about degrees of awakening. So it's not an ego thing. I don't really care about being more awakened than someone else. I just care about not missing some important insight which I might easily overlook if I wasn't careful and comprehensive. I would rather err on the side of comprehensiveness. Because I can't anticipate everything I don't know. I always leave room in my epistemology for surprises and big reversals. All that's really required is radical openmindedness. Don't close down your mind even after an awakening. Keep being curious. Keep learning. Keep reading. Keep hearing other points of view. You just never know what you might discover.

@legendary That is very difficult to assess in practice, especially if you haven't had multiple awakenings yourself. The challenge is that different minds talk about awakening in different ways, so just because two people talk different and emphasize different things does not necessarily mean their level of awakening is different. To be totally honest, I don't know anyone else's level of awakening. I only know what levels I have experienced. The rest is my speculations. It is possible to try to guess a person's levels of awakening by asking them various questions about the nature of reality. Depending on how they answer these questions you might catch some clues about how awake they really are. But again, you're still just guessing. You don't really know. It could just be a failure to communicate. Many awake people are just poor communicators. Some questions I like to ask people to determine how awake they are: Why is there something rather than nothing? What is God? How does God create? What is your true nature? What is non-existence? What is Truth? What is Infinity? What is Consciousness? What is Love? Have you become conscious of infinite intelligence? What is the deepest thing you've become conscious of? Do other people exist? etc. If they are not able to answer these questions clearly and satisfactorily, then I consider that they are not fully awake. Although it might just be that they don't want to answer such questions. It can be hard to tell. To me the highest teaching must affirm: 1) You are God, 2) Total nonduality, 3) Infinity & Nothingness Teachings which cannot answer the question of why there is something rather than nothing are incomplete in my opinion. Because I have clearly answered this question for myself. So I know it can be done. Teachings which try to emphasize emptiness or formlessness over form are also incomplete in my opinion since they fail to fully comprehend that form and formlessness are identical. Teachings which claim there is no God are also suspect. Since you can clearly recognize that you are God. I am also suspicious of teachings which never talk about absolute Love or which deny Love as an Absolute. I am also suspicious of teachings which do not ever mention the energetic aspects of awakening. I am super suspicious of any teachings which claims that enlightenment is binary and has no degrees. To me this is clearly false as my experience says otherwise. If someone cannot explain clearly what God is, why God is, and how God works, they are not fully awake in my opinion. Since I have been able to understand all that for myself. It can clearly be done. And not as theory, belief, or speculation. You can be totally conscious of how God works. Of course you can also evaluate a person's demeanor, energy, and vibe. But this can also be misleading. It can be hard to tell whether you are projecting your own ideas onto them. So in practice the best thing you can do is not to get married to any one teacher or teaching. Keep looking for deeper and deeper teachings and you will probably keep finding them. And also remember, just because someone isn't fully awaken doesn't mean you can't learn a lot from them. So don't get too perfectionistic trying to find the perfect teacher. The most awake people are often poor teachers. Teaching ability is not at all the same as degree of awakening. The best teachers will likely be less awake than the most awakened people: precisely because they spend a lot time teaching! In the same way that the best mathematicians are not the best math teachers. Whenever you are in doubt, just ask 5-MeO-DMT and it will tell you the truth -- assuming you're ready to stomach it. It will not lie to you. Your mind might lie. But 5-MeO does not. Every answer you want is there. You just have to dig it out a bit, which can take time. I will trust 5-MeO-DMT over any living master. Direct experience is king.

I've heard it put an Awakened person has a mind. In an unawakened person, the mind has them.

I am not enlightened or awakened. My feeling is..... Once one attains it, the need to explain it to others or argue or agree/disagree.....all that goes out the window. I think Leo is just sharing what occurred with him not trying to battle in a right/wrong dichotomy. And I think that is the whole point. Right/wrong is a style of thinking that doesnt (kind of) work when tasting God. Im careful to not say that THAT is wrong.

They mostly agree that awakening = Absolute Truth = Nothing = Everything = God = Love = Consciousness It's just a question of how deeply you comprehend it, how much of its consequences you see, how well you embody it in everyday life, and how conscious you are of things. These vary greatly. There's also the issue of: how integral is your view of spirituality? For example, are you going to deny that Hindu's understand awakening? That Muslims do? That Jews do? That Buddhists do? Are you gonna pick one team and criticize all the others? Are you going to deny that people who use psychedelics have legit awakening experiences? Are you going to insist that self-inquiry is the one true way, or yoga, or Zen, or meditation? Are you going to insist that Jesus was the most awake, or Buddha, or someone else? Or are you gonna say that all awakened people are equally awake? There tends to be a lot of disagreement about all that mostly because the people disagreeing have not fully experienced and explored the things they're disagreeing with. Before you go disagreeing about 5-MeO-DMT, for example, how about you do 10 trips? Then let's talk. Before you go disagreeing about Islam, how about you travel to the Middle East and talk to 10 enlightened Sufi masters. Then let's talk. To really understand all this diversity there has to be genuine desire to understand it. You can't just cling to your POV while maintaining that everyone else is deluded. This understanding is not strictly-speaking enlightenment. It is a side pursuit. But in my opinion it is highly worthwhile. We are living more and more in an integrated world. We must learn to understand each other better, otherwise confusion, delusion, and evil happen.

IF you are creator then why dont u make yourself awakened? To think that you created everything and yourself out of infinite goodness sounds immensely mad. When you cried about how you, the God, created everything out of your selfless loving nature I was shocked. IT SOUNDS SO DAMN NAIVE AND WRONG. DUDE WHATS Up. Just look at your own words and look how wrong it sounds, do u really think that the structure of existence is so brutally naive and simple? its just me - i created it all - coz i m infinite goodness selfless creator. now i am speaking to u through utube to say that. However, i can;t even wake up to that fact without drugs. What kind of creator is this? Do you even hear how naive that sounds? Its as if you are prisoner of asylum for psychopaths. all these grandiose statements are JUST A MEGALOMANIA. its all sounds like utter delusion. It sounds as if you are possessed by some higher forces who are making fun of you and all of us. Moreover, to think that you can trip towards Godhead through psychedelics - this is just nonsense. Real God wouldn't allow to trip towards him through drugs. Maybe infinite reality would allow that - and maybe you have mistaken infinite reality for True God. BUT what if True God transcends reality itself? You might be very conscious but that doesn't cancel out the fact that awakening doesn't really tell us anything about ultimate Creator of existence. Awakening simply is about our true nature here and now. Its about how things are here and now. What on Earth would make us to think that awakening would tell us about how things are in the largest scheme of things. So i think u just diminish the role and status of the word God into making it as something ordinary and low.

Age doesn't matter. You could be 5 years old but have 30 lifetimes of aescetic style meditation under your belt in comparison to someone who has awakened their first time this lifetime.