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You are right...nonduality is not a container and it is important not to get trapped up in thoughts. Also, dualities are created by thoughts. No thoughts, no dualities. I would agree. Duality is a fiction of the mind. We are not living in duality...it has always been nonduality. The idea that nonduality includes duality, in a way, gives legitimacy and reality to duality. However, one sees duality because of ignorance and illusion. It never was real...just as a rabbit being pulled from a hat is not real...but it exists as an illusion. So duality, as an illusion, exists within nonduality. There is only the appearance of duality (apparent duality) which is included in nonduality. Much of the confusion comes from conventions of speech and thought. Let's take a mirage. You see water, but in reality it is light refracting off of hot air (on the desert, pavement, etc.). As nonduality has no "other" or exclusion...so in this spirit, you would have to say there is hot air, refracted light, and the appearance of water. It would be incorrect to say there is water...as a reality. The illusion of water exists, but it is not real..water is not what is there. This is not excluding or creating otherness. It is just accurately verbalizing what is.

@Joseph Maynor seems like he’s beatin around the bush. Makes me wonder if he has actually been Alone. I’m starting to think, either there are souls and I have not experienced them / mine, or he has experienced Alone, and he is downplaying what he has to offer and undermining what he Is saying, or he’s dumbing it down to what he assumes is the reader’s level. It could totally be my ignorance, but whenever souls get brought into nonduality, my dogma radar chirps a little. Not code red, just a couple chirps.

Well, nonduality is a tricky thing. It's sorta like the elephant in the room which nobody sees. And IF you see it, it might change your plans in life. But also, don't put the cart too far before the horse. You don't really know what nonduality entails, so as always you have to keep living your life using imperfect information. Your desire to help people psychologically is probably genuine. What nonduality would do is purify that desire and show you more effective ways of serving people than perhaps traditional psychotherapy. Don't get too far ahead of where you are. Ideas of enlightenment are not enlightenment, and will not feed or comfort you. It's still the best strategy to stick to what you're more passionate about.

@Joseph Maynor In a way, I agree ... however, in an absolute nondual state there would be no possibility of this relational experience. So nonduality, all that is, allows for apparent duality for the sake of this relational experience. Realizing this, the dream doesn't end, it's just known as the creative play of Lila that it truly is, but free of the attendant suffering of not realizing this. Why the dreaming, is another question altogether.

@snowleopard I think I understand what you’re saying, maybe not. nonduality is perception without paradox. Often, ime, the big picture duality is the last paradox before nonduality. Not as a rule or anything. Just seems that way. As in, without something to do, there could be no doer - and without a doer, there could be nothing to do (duality). Without the duality, it is seen that there is no actual doer, and there is actually nothing to do. Yet, here we are, in a loop of creator and creating, as the One.

@egoless @Nahm It's a fascinating topic ... Clearly, duality is imaginable, as it is nothing but imagined ... but is nonduality? Leo's insightful 'strange loop' pointer seems like a way to visualize this apparent paradox? It's like a kind of visual koan ... he may well have pulled it off

@egoless if we’re loosely defining enlightenment as permanent nonduality - experiencing life, without a central ‘you’ - body / brain identity, only the practices will do, short of a one in a million Tolle happening. (IMO) The practices free us of “me me me” perspective. Loa takes you from there and can reveal you are, indeed, the One. It also helps with the next question that arises....if I’m the one, what about all these other ‘people’? ?❤️

@AdamDiC Dismiss what nonsense? Meditation is just one component of development. You definitely will be missing out on a lot of stuff if all you do is meditation. That is not enough, and it will produce a lopsided, half-baked development. There's nothing confusing here. Meditate your ass off if you like, but also be learning and growing in other fields as well. This is just common sense. Meditation will not make you good in relationships, social skills, life purpose, career, communication skills, understanding of society, etc. Yes, meditation can be very powerful, but it shouldn't be your only tool. Self-help and nonduality are not really in conflict. They can dove-tail beautifully. Self-help doesn't have to mean that you drift from your mindfulness practice.

Nonduality perspective in a dualistic reality/illusion; "I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I imagine you can also feel me. You won't have to search for me anymore. I'm done running. Done hiding. Whether I'm done fighting, I suppose, is up to you. I believe deep down, we both want this world to change. I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be truly free, truly free, you cannot change your cage. You have to change yourself. When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its leaders and laws. But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace. I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free your mind, you'll find the way."

@beastmode Nonduality negates the very thing the solipsist holds as the most certain thing.

Don't confuse solipsism with nonduality. They are subtly different. Nonduality is actually more radical.

Loa is a guide to freedom, to nonduality. (I am referencing Ester, not ‘the secret’) It takes some serious commitment, but one can learn to wield the actual nature of creation.

@Serge Careful not to get carried away with your radical models. Don't confuse nonduality with anything-goes. It's the opposite of that, actually. You want to become hyper-aware of the narratives your mind is building about reality, and drop them as much as possible. The fact is, most of the stuff you believe, you have zero experience of. It's very easy to abuse this work and hurt people. So be very careful with your theorizing.

I had thirteen years of spiritual searching, but was not looking for enlightenment and I was not really suffering much so I wasn't trying to get out of deep suffering either. I just wanted to know the truth. I was taught past-life regression, various healing modalities, and I did meditate (sporadically - guided meditations, heart centered meditations, etc.). I did not really care for meditation, so I did not do it consistently and often months would pass between meditations. I never did self inquiry...I learned of that after awakening. My practices were all ego driven...self-improvement and human potential. I studied whatever seemed interesting...even magick (The Book of Abramelin, the Green Grimoire, etc.). You don't get much more egoic than wanting to control the world. I have a very wide band of general spiritual knowledge from this, but funny enough I did not study nonduality or enlightenment at all. Even the day prior to awakening, if you asked me what was nonduality...I would not have had a clue. After thirteen years of general studies, I hit a point where every new book seemed to just talk about things I have already read elsewhere. So I gave up the search. I quit reading, practicing, and meditating completely. I have been fairly intuitive since starting the spiritual journey, and so anything I bump into multiple times in a short period of time...I take notice of. I kept bumping into the name Eckhart Tolle. I had heard of the 'Power of Now' but hated the title so much that I never read it. I didn't want to read it, but would begrudgingly watch something - so I went to the library. They had a DVD called "Flowering of Human Consciousness". A talk Eckhart had given. As I watched it, it seemed it was more of the same. Be present...something I thought I was doing - even though I was very much in the head and thinking all of the time. But then he went through an exercise to inhabit the body - to be 100% devoted to the experience of now. I actually became present for the first time. Thinking stopped, and in that silence there was only feeling and experiencing what is here and now. In that moment of profound silence in November 2005, total stillness and presence seemed to come out of hiding from behind everything. There was no future and no past…just what is – that is sort of timeless. There was no “I” or identification with anything. The senses functioned and so I saw, but there was no seer…no “I”…just seeing. It was a direct, sudden realization into what is as it is. It was nondual...no separation. There was a clear and deep seeing through the false “I”. At the same time, as it is connected and not separate, there was a clear seeing of the nature of the world. I had spent years trying to let go of attachments, release myself from fears, self integrate, and basically become better. I saw in that moment that those very actions were in part keeping the illusory “I” alive. In that moment there were no attachments, fears, problems, sorrow, anxiety, suffering, seeking, etc. They never returned. I then read and studied nonduality to get some vocabulary regarding the realization and see how others talk about it. Why did it happen? I was ripe...and in being truly present (so there was no thought)...there were no distractions and a clarity occurred. In the end, there was nothing that I did that caused it. It just happened...of itself. Like surprise...you can't create a surprise for yourself. I clearly saw that is the problem with all practice is that an "I" is doing it and trying to get somewhere...without actually looking at the "I" itself. Upon awakening, I clearly realized that all of that time people spend in the process of freeing themselves from bondage was the delusion of bondage itself. We ask irrelevant questions and do a multitude of practices that only distract us from really looking at this "I". I love Ramana Maharshi's teachings...simple and straight to the point - who am I? He would never let people wiggle away from that point. They would ask him about reincarnation and he would reply - who are you now? I felt deep wisdom in this approach...not letting you look anywhere else. The direct path...a path with no steps. No where to go...just who am I? I recognize the limitations of practice and potential dangers of practice. So even when I suggest something that could be called a practice...self-inquiry for example...I point out that this should not be an efforting or doing. We have no choice but to be aware when we are conscious...so just look at yourself. Question - what am I...really? I try to minimize the egoic action involved. Also being present...this too is not a doing or effort. We are making efforts (thinking) that take us out of the present (experience) and into the head (thinking). So I talk about ceasing to do...again removing action and doership of the "I". If you did nothing (not even thinking), you would automatically be present. I try to be careful to not inflate the sense of "I" and doership...which is a danger of practices. As for your last question...I am currently working with someone who has panic attacks just about every day, in constant fear, and feels hopeless. I just keep pointing him back to this "I" he thinks he is. He keeps trying to distract himself...asking questions that have nothing to do with the "I". I point him back to "what am I?" He later tells me that he sometimes has revelations, but recently said he has spend many hours and days contemplating "who/what am I"...and he says he logically sees that he is not the body/mind...but he still worries and fears. I told him that he still believes he is the body/mind...that is why he fears. His fear of travel (one of many) would not be if he was not worried about something happening to the body/mind which he is so strongly identified with. All I can do is point him back to "who am I?" and tell him to be present (without referring to past or future or mental imagination...where can there be fear?). Cease doing...and as you have no choice but to be aware...look at who you feel yourself to be and delve deeper (keep looking).

Enlightenment has to be a strange loop. It can only exist as a strange loop. There is this description in zen of enlightenment being a gateless gate. You walk through the gate and realize, that there was no gate to walk through in the first place. On my last AL-LAD trip I was mindfucked by this paradox of enlightenment being a "state" that can be reached vs advita nonduality tells us that we allready are enlightened and can't get any closer to it. The psychedelic confronted my mind with the question of how it's possible to reach a "state" that I am allready in. What I now know, after watching your new video, @Leo Gura , that I became conscious of the strange-loopieness of the concept of enlightenment. There is this description of the substance of enlightenment by Peter Ralston that captures this, that rings very true with me. The insight here is, that there is no difference between enlightenment and me. That's were the metaphor of the cat unraveling the yarn unraveling the cat comes in. I am enlightenment, I just have to realize what I am.

@Monkey-man Jed's writing is dramatic at times, but as Leo points out, they are indeed a work of love. I've talked with him personally, and he does have a compassionate air about him. I'm so glad I read his books before any other nonduality books, because they really cut the crap and get to the chase. However, don't take the drama too seriously, or else you risk zen devilry, which was the trap I fell into afterwards. I gave up meditation for awhile after reading his books, a mistake on my part. I became dogmatically anti-dogmatic, closing my mind down to all "New Age BS," which is precisely what I needed at the time. So, do take his work seriously, but maintain a holistic open mind. Enlightenment is a mastery process, not a neo-advaitan "there's nothing to do" farce.

careful, better to say "we" than "me" - the self is not YOU, it is not-you: the belief that you are you and that there is nothing beyond your being there, is NOT the understanding that all is as one. Necessarily there are things in which we aren't aware of, because our awareness is limited in order to exist at all. this is the trick. in the life that we see before us, we know that there is an infinity of possible awareness's we will never obtain, look to the stars! we can see that they are there, we see evidence of their existence, and yet we can never be existent as the stars exist. we can come up with ideas about how atoms are a true thing, yet we cannot truly be the atom. at the best, we can be a human who pretends to be the atom. or we can be an awareness that once thought it was human, which now thinks it is an atom, which later will return to being a human, and then trick itself into believing it knows what it is like to be an atom. but the only way to be an atom, is to have no true capability to understand what it is like to be anything else but an atom - just as we have no true capability to understand what it is like to be anything else but a human. we can pretend to know and come up with reasonable claims as to what alternative experiences of awareness are - but no matter how authentic that belief can be, it is still just belief. maybe it'll be easier to understand what others are if you imagine that they are a fabricated dream that you do not understand. and then from that basis, work towards realizing that instead they are a trick of the mind to process information on a deeper level than just the first level of direct awareness, a way of storing memory. and then from there, work towards seeing that you are just as fragile as they appear to be, that in an instant those dreams could shatter the dream that is you just as quickly as the other way around. in fact, we all shatter the dream of each other on a regular basis - move on with the day, forget (temporarily) of the existence of some individual. this is the nature of duality within nonduality. existence is nondual, but an essential part of experiencing existence is duality. how can you experience something if it is all one thing? you can only experience something if one thing experiences and the other thing is ethe experience. this is duality! nonduality is to realize that the experiencer and the experience are as one. the light projected onto the screen is as one. to stop seeing the screen or the light or the light projected on the screen at all, as seeing that is that! of course the world has consistency. it would just be a dream if it weren't consistent. oops but, it is a dream but you can make it inconsistent. in fact, necessarily it is inconsistent, lol, you say that the math explains why this or that or the other thing, well the math also fails to explain those or these or this other other thing. you just weigh on the consistency more than you do on the inconsistency, in order to convince yourself that reality is different from a dream. that's a fair enough thing to do. it is different, but not as different as you think. both are just a belief of experience, taking an observation and applying deep meaning to it and searching for consistency to rely on. please continue to rely on consistence, but work to start to notice that its consistency is just as illusory as its inconsistency, and its inconsistencies are just as real as its consistencies. (wait, did I say anything in this post? I hope I made any sense...)

thats the whole point. Nobody knows anything. Not even so called nonduality teachers. How can anybody know anything about your current experience/life right now? nobody has been there yet. nobody has been you yet

also piggybacking @Girzo @beastmode I really agree! there is certainly space for PD to become successful right now - a low supply of PD advisors/counselors/etc - if there weren't, we wouldn't have a huge ol' country all panicking about some silly president and there's definitely truth in the "nonduality" of considering all professions as personal growth. the #1 question of nearly every career is, "how are you going to advance your career" this inherently leads to self-growth. humans in fact, naturally without trying, they develop themselves over time too! old fogeys are stereotypically wise and stoic, and young whippersnappers are notoriously foolish dreamers not worth a damn personal growth is secretly everyone's passion, or is it really the other way around - everyone's diverse interests in life all involve personal growth in some facet. We all here just like Leo so we talk a lot about consciousness work, and think it's all the highest form of personal growth, but those plumbers dedicated to plumbing sure as hell are passionate about plumbing being the truest life purpose.

Leo's blog entry got me thinking. Imagine the following dialogue at the doctors office: Doctor: "I'm sorry to tell you this, but we found this advanced tumor in your brain. It's growing in a dangerously fast rate. You might not have that long to live anymore...." Patient: "Cool story bro, you should definitely write that down! Doctor: "I understand this must be shocking for you, but we will do everything we can..." Patient: "No, you don't understand. You are literally just hallucinating a story inside of this infinite hallucination machine. It has no grounding in reality whatsoever." I understand that no story is true. Because it consists of just noises made out of thin air. The noise "cancer" is not the actual unknown unspeakable phenomenon. The noise "Cancer" is supposed to be a symbol for the phenomenon. As Korzybski said "Whatever we may say will not be the objective level, which remains fundamentally un-speakable. Thus, we can sit on the object called 'a chair', but we cannot sit on the noise we made or the name we applied to that object." Now, with "objects" like a tumor, chair, pencil, etc. it is relatively easy. It's really just colour/light (But of course, not "colour"/"light" ) and it is not isolated. There are no isolated "objects". The isolated object is just created with language. "This colour-form combination is a tree!" "Really dude? Isn't it just also colour-form like, well, everything?" But what about stories like "Outside of my experience" or "death" or "soul" or "planet earth"? Do they symbolize anything? The noise "soul" might be just a noise, and not even a symbol, because what is there in actual experience that this noise is supposed to symbolize? The same goes for God. Or Nothingness. Or time. the languages cannot succeed at building a model of "reality" faster than experience occurs. What we think we observe is limited to what we can translate to each other via the slower than "reality" tool of our languages. What about "outside of my current experience" or "Objective Universe"? Might those terms symbolize something that might be a "reality"? At my current stage of contemplation I think it is forever unknown. There might be "outside of my current experience" There might be "Objective Universe". Those terms could be abstractions of something unknowable. There might be nothing seperate from consciousness, but there might aswell be. It's an open question, even if it sounds like nonduality has "figured it out" and is the final answer to consciousness. It can seem like "nonduality teachers" really know something and are the final consciousness authorities.. you gotta be fucking kidding me, lol. atleast I was believing this nonsense... It's just a desparate attempt to escape the obvious reality of slowly aging to death, paradoxically through story-telling of stopping the story-telling. So what value do stories offer us? It is neither good to ignore nor to believe in any story. But they seem to give us a valuable map for the territory (Even if you think about it, there is no map, but only territory, the map is also territory.. you know what I mean) I'm especially interested in what you guys think about concepts like "outside of my experience" "other minds" "Physical universe". Are they abstractions/symbols for something that is in one form or another a reality? Like the word "Cancer"? Or are they just noises, not words/symbols standing for nothing at all?

@beastmode how about a nonduality fitness center life coach ... ”you’re a piece of shit and you’ll never accomplish anything!!”, “you are infinite, you can have anything you dream”, “ you’re nothing you can’t run 1 mile without crying like a baby!!!” “You can do it!!! Feel source within you and you are unstoppable!!” ??‍♂️?

Meditation. everyday. While you are constantly reminded of the past & future, I am constantly reminded of the now, simply because of meditation. I wonder if this video would be helpful. 23 attempts by the illusion professing it is, and 23 times it is met by the absolute and silenced. The illusion (melody above middle C) try’s all of it tricks, expressing determinism, then vigor, then caressing, then authenticity, to no avail, taken under every time by the absolute (melody below middle C). Their claims of separation become the very things that reveal their non-seperate nature, and on the 24th attempt, they attempt together, with arpeggio’s sweeeping the full dynamic of the infinite (low c, through middle c, to high c) arriving at nonduality.

@Bichu Krishnan before the nonduality experience we are calling a few second delay ‘now’, but it’s not the now. The delay is thinking & beliefs. Meditation and inquiring, going within, letting go of thinking & beliefs, no thinking, wham! Now.

@Leo Gura I just wonder how one could become interested in nonduality without access to the Internet, books or teachers? It seems a birth right to self inquire but simultaneously if you have no options other than to listen to other people's dogma then how can it be done? Is it possible I wonder?

@Nahm What's interesting about Life Below Zero is that even though those people live isolated, their lives are basically identical to the average mediocre lifestyle: 24/7 survival mode. Surviving in NY or in Alaska is the exact same fundamental thing. Survival is relentless, no matter where and how you do it. Those people are still clueless about nonduality. Yes, being out in nature is nice and refreshing, but nonduality is far superior, and it doesn't matter where you do it. You can do it in a giant city.