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This work takes a certain kind of maturity. You're not ready for the full implications of nonduality yet. What you call nihilism is just a fear of becoming groundless. Yes, reality is meaningless, but what you fail to understand is that nihilism goes full-circle into divinity and infinite love. It's precisely because everything is meaningless, that it can be unconditionally loved. Drop your ideological positions and petty personal needs. Then the true beauty of reality will be revealed to you. Or don't, and stay stuck in your egoic, contracted paradigm. Either way is fine.

@zedprotect I've also been questioning this topic lately. What I struggle most with is that a lot of the stuff we talk about in spirituality such as consciousness, awareness, the ultimate, kundalini, nonduality, spirit, god, samadhi, bliss, presence etc. bla bla doensn't necessarily contradict the paradigm of a (physical) world we know. Because a physical world does not exclude subjective experiences. For example: Recognizing that you're not your thoughts, but the observer/awareness behind the thoughts, doesn't automatically mean that consciousness is fundamental and that you are in essence "the absolute" (whatever this is). This could solely be the process of a physical brain becoming aware of itself. How the fuck can you know that what you're conscious of is of any trustworthiness? How do you know it is not any subjective bullshit experience? Same goes for psychedelics. How the hell would you know that what you're experiencing is not just a simple halluzination? Yes, I get it: It seems like your whole world collapses and this altered state seems super real to you. But guess what, your brain can make you believe anything it wants! And yes, there is the Ego with all it's selfish needs and wants and inferior motives and self-deception. Ok, but this doesn't prove anything about a spiritual dimension. Kundalini could be just some regular neural stimulation that affects the brain in certain ways Spontaneous epiphanies or "awakening experiences" could also be just brain stuff It seems to me like a lot of this spirituality stuff is the ego's way of trying to construct a new illusory reality for itself, in order to be free of suffering. Can't it just be that if you tell our moldable brain long enough: "Hey, I am not this human body, I am the whole universe" (which in a sense is true because all is the same physical matter) it will eventually believe it and thus relieve the "person" of suffering because of the depersonalization process that has taken place. And the possible illusion that you might be the ultimate consciousness or whatever could also be welcome by suffering brain. What if there really is a physical universe (which we do not yet fully understand, and probably never completely will) and the emergent brain phenomenon "consciousness" of an evolved lifeform in the person of Eckhard Tolle is telling somebody just this very moment: "you are not your thoughts, you are infinite awareness bla bla"... This, of course, it just some input to think about. I always try to keep an open mind and be aware of the possibility that truth might be beyond my accessibility. But maybe not.

Well science can be more truth-oriented if we are talking about the most holistic possible understanding of reality. In terms of your life, the truest holism is to reach absolute truth like Buddha. But in terms of thinking and understanding reality, true holism is to inclusion of everything and thats also possible to very big extents, not to 100% extent but to very big. Opinions aren't problem. Problem is to identify with them. Why do we defend our ideas about consciousness and nonduality so much? this absolute, thats relative, this true, thats false, this real, thats dream, this nondual, thats not nondual, bla bla bla many attachment to terminology I think doing that is pretty much green or orange thinking, we hold our precious ideas as a truth. Rather why don't we just hold them as important, instead of holding them as true? They can't be non-important anyways, thats our values, but why do we so quick to think that if its important for me then its absolutely right? You might think that intellect is important or spirituality is important, and then you think that its true for everyone and thats how life is and should be. But no, its just valuable for you, which is very good thing, but thats not the whole story of how life is or how life should be. Life can be with or without that. Because simply some people consider these things as important and need them in life and some don't. So its both! Moreover, some things are not people at all. If you disidentify with your opinions you might see that now you can create holistic approach and be true system-thinker. True system thinking is all-encompassment. Include everything, every variable including limitations of your mind, perception and your personal tastes, values and inclinations that will affect end result of created systemic thought. So if you want to have systemic and holistic conceptual understanding of life/reality, you must include not only your non-dual staff, but everything from science, philosophy, psychology, economy, politics, history, maths to art, esoteric, cosmology, fairytales, religion, mythology, conspiracies, astrology and occults. From what bums on the street might think about life to what your family might think about life. From including your own biases and personal preferences to biases and preferences of people who conducted your books, articles, i.e. your research base. From holding the paradox that everything can be known and nothing can be known, that we don't know that we can know and that we don't know that we can't know. That we know that we don't know, and that we know that we know. That all exist, and also don't exist. That everything is one, but also that its not one but many, that its infinitely one and many interactions of one infinity. Coz most people don't perceive reality in that way, and that fact must be included too. That nothing is paradoxical, yet for our logic its all paradoxes. We must include our feelings, emotions and all of our subjective experience as variables too. You need to use both logic and intuition. Cold-hearted abstained approach implying you only care about what's most correct and also warm-hearted compassionate approach implying that you do it out of care and love to knowledge. That knowledge and facts are just mind at work which isn't true, and yet mind is the only possible mean of knowledge to understand anything at all. That everything is metaphors, and yet metaphors are only reality that we have hence they are real. That all is real and illusion in the same time. That all is meaningful and meaningless. That there's evolution and its purposes, and that there's none of that. That its a game or show, and that its important and divine. That world doesn't need change, yet it needs change a lot. That all of your experience is absolute and relative in the same time. And in the same time its not absolute, in the sense that you are not in the state of absolute. That all is one, yet there are many layers of one which are interconnected but also have their own partially separate world. So how to do that? I think that the only thing you really need is to exclude identification with your thinking and with end result. No identification assumes that you abstain from need to change something or to make impact or to survive or to be right as a person or to get somewhere. Instead aim to create holistic understanding which will be as right (relatively) as possible. Don't identify with your model. Mind that you can't be 100% right, but also that you don't need to be 100% right. The aim is not to be perfect, you can't be perfect, but also you are already perfect. You are just creating systemic thought. You don't really need to include things that are low interest to you, but then you need to keep in mind that your end result is not as complete without those things, and it would be different with that things. Also, keep in mind that you probably won't be able not to hold your opinions as precious to some extent, so also include that in your holistic model. Then exclusion of wrong things will be done by inclusion of them!!! LOL how funny is that, you include all your biases, and all cultural superstitions about life, and this inclusion will make you to see bigger picture. Those stories can be fitted into bigger picture to extent that bigger picture makes bigger sense now. Because those biases can HIDE something very much true. Stories about santa clause may hide something behind them, including that its actually true entity! if you came to conclusion that its not then you can search why those stories exist at all or where do they fit into bigger picture. because EVERYTHING FITS BIG PICTURE. Big picture includes places where you discover that all lies have aspects of them which are correct. Once that is taken into consideration, you can see how exactly it fits in. So maybe Santa is just metaphor of something, maybe he is real, maybe its all non-sense stories that exist because of some other factors, and maybe its all of the above! Now you can see how those stories are right and how are they wrong, and that its two sides of the same coin. Some of them can reflect one aspect, some another. After you have your conceptual systemic model of reality (which will be forever expanding, so don't settle for anything), now you can use it for a change of your life, for share, for impact and for a good. Now it can be much more useful for your life or for life of society. Now its more correct. Or you can just simply enjoy creating and discovering knowledge and expand it further. I don't mean you first need to learn a lot, you actually create your understanding every moment, so you can use that principle right now with what you already have. Whatever you know, just don't identify with it. And see how you can understand reality truer, or how you can really use your knowledge for better. Not only truth can be seen clearer but also life can be better. It also feels good not to identify with opinions, it gives you opportunity to feel value and meaningfulness in all that, to use your intellect in much wiser ways and to grow. You even can survive much better and live much better if you don't identify with your opinions. You didn't even started to expand your model but its already holistic understanding once you don't identify with it. Now the question, to what extent thats possible?

@Leo Gura It's not that I don't see that there are no real alternatives anymore once one fully grasps the significance of self actualization/personal development. I can never go back to the life of playing video games and eating junk food. My concern is with the more "basic" personal development stuff, which I seem to need most at the moment. Like creating a business, learning marketing, understanding how money works, creating a way to make money and all this stuff (maybe pickup, to get this area handled). I focused everything on Enlightenment/Psychology/Philosophy. And even though I need to figure some of this stuff out in my life, I can't find the drive to investigate my time in learning it somehow. Sometimes I think I'm deceiving myself with all this nonduality and the more theoretical stuff in order to avoid "real world" work.

great author of how to survive lectures if only JP is introduced to nonduality and enlightenment and actually inject that into his paradigm... he'll become amazing author of how to live lectures

From personal experience, spirituality let me down time and again. It said to question everything except what it was teaching. When I tried multiple times and had no success rather than place the fault in the claims it made it said there is something wrong with me. Science is at least honest when it says it doesn’t know and that the knowledge it has is provisional. Spirituality claims certainty and when pressed as to how and why it hides behind “ego” and “mind” and nonduality (which is a contradictory word).

@pankoo Good for you. Why would I think you're trolling me? I'm happy to see people getting enlightened, or having glimpses. That's the whole point of what I do: sharing the profundity of these insights with people. The whole point is that no one is in control of when these insights dawn. It's not up you or me. For some people it happens in 3 days, for others it happens in 30 years, and for others it never happens at all. I've seen old ladies who hardly know anything about enlightenment have big breakthroughs very quickly while more serious students of nonduality stay stuck. It actually helps to be a newb at this. The more conceptual knowledge of enlightenment you have, the worse it can be. Keep in mind, you probably have deeper to go. And beginner's luck tends to run out.

@vikisss1 You're barking up the right tree. All distinctions ultimately collapse. That's what allows for nonduality/oneness. If any distinctions whatsoever remained, it would still be duality. The distinction between ANYTHING is a false one. Including the distinction between existence and non-existence, and life and death.

I would guess we all would consider ourselves "non-dualists" or aspiring non-dualists. So the biggest problem we encounter on the path to achieving non duality is this evil demon called the "Ego". So it appears that the only thing that escapes nonduality is this Ego entity. Only in the presence of Ego can one be un-enlightened is what's said (in other words ofcourse). So what is this Ego entity? If it's real then non-duality is not true. If it's not real, then non-duality is already true before we started the search. So what is this 'shedding away of ego layers' people keep talking about. After all in true nonduality, there should not be a difference between Ego and no Ego. That's like pointing at the naked king who thinks he has clothes on... This is so big that it means the following statement is absolutely true: If you are not enlightened now, nonduality is not a correct teaching because there exist an entity beyond non-duality. If you are enlightened, then there is no need for non duality teachings. What's up with that? Based on this, turns out that Neo-Advaita is the most plausible advaita of them all. It has been ridiculed on this forum.

I dont know what to say about this video. The only thing i know for sure is that i am not as developed as i thought i am. I am puzzled in a weird way, i haven't fix basic needs yet but i still bother with nonduality. Maybe i am chasing two rabbits...

@pluto amen. @Mighty Mouse Shhh here he comes - omg dude that was so funny ? @Joseph Maynor There are stages and it could also happen all at once. The stages, anyone could do and get ‘there’. Anyone. The all at once, 1 in a billion odds I think. My 2 cents....There’s realization of the duality of one’s own mind, conceptual nonduality, mental equanimity, the oneness experience, the absolute experience, then the ultimate blow out that actual reality is literally you and there is no other thing (the Alone ❤️), they’re is no thing at all, you are not a thing and not not a thing either, everything sensed is completely your illusion, what you are in actuality is eternal. That last one, doesn’t matter if it’s on a trip or not, it is so permanent it could not be undone even if you tried. *It’s not that you experience that you are everything - you are still you - and you experience that everything is you. Sounds subtle, but it’s all the difference. There is no unseeing what you are and what is illusion. When someone says it’s not an illusion - lol - God, you, it telling you, that they are real and not illusionary. Consider how funny that is, when you know you are them the whole time. They just don’t know what they are. Nothing wrong with that (obviously lmao!), it’s just very funny in a mind f way. Wether this eternal you is love itself, or a void of nothingness without conscious awareness of it’s self...clearly we can agree no one believes anyone, nor should they, so it’s limited of course to experience of what you are. It is worth considering though, that if you consider yourself conscious as a result of the body & brain, but you don’t think God is conscious, you are actually saying you are conscious and God is not. Also, very funny. Side note, lots of people claiming it’s a void, who have not experienced the mental equanimity, let alone the rest. It is not helpful to anyone on the forum when someone speaks with false confidence from fear and ignorance. Every time someone does this, they are hurting themselves the most, that is the nature of self depreciation, you’re further from any realizations, as the path is through the self. One’s own healing should then be the priority, not a forum comment. Stating enlightenment is not real reveals you have not experienced it, or any of the most profound experiences, and solidifys that you won’t. Short of a human never having formed an ego or any concept of self as human, Enlightenment is a real experience.

@7thLetter Of course there is no absolute best way to live. But characterizing self-actualization as closedmindedness towards negativity is like characterizing being a man as closedmindedness towards having a vagina. Why you gotta frame it in such a silly way? And nonduality transcends positive/negative anyways.

But it doesn't work like that... I get evidence for both that it's ugly and beautiful. It's just how it is... There are ugly and beautiful parts of my life too. I could easily quote what you are saying and say that what you're saying is just a belief.. Really I am in a process of looking at all my beliefs, including those picked up in nonduality. I just want to see things as they are. And I dont have evidence that my beliefs change my reality directly. They may change it indirectly because they would change my reactions, but that's another story. What I'm saying is that I could be in my biggest depression and something amazing might happen which contradicts your theory that my state of mind shapes the outside. And vice versa. What I'm saying is that reality doesnt give a fuck about what I think or belief. It is the way it is independent of my opinion or view. I could believe delusions all I want, and believe them to the point they are true for me, but reality would still not care. I could believe I can go through a wall all I want, but I will still get my face smashed if I try is what im saying. I've observed before I had a belief that I cant go through the wall. This is what shaped my current fact that i cant go through walls in this reality. It's not that I first had to have a belief on the matter lol? You see how there are big holes in this belief-manifestation theory? It doesn't hold up. Manifestation is prior to beliefs in my experience and beliefs are based on the manifestation.

This is just untrue. There are dozens of techniques which lead to nonduality/enlightenment. It's a mistake to assume that only one school or one technique has a monopoly on Truth. If that were really the case, everyone would be using that one technique and nothing else. The vast diversity you see in the spiritual marketplace bespeaks the multitude of paths up the mountaintop. As you do more research and experiment with diverse techniques yourself, you'll start to see this.

Same thing as nonduality, which is a self refuting term.

I don’t think it’s the position that is left when others are indefensible. It can be argued that there are more than two halves to things. But non duality is the assumed position when others are done. It’s not what’s left, it’s just one of many. But something either is or isn’t, at least for some things. So that takes nonduality out the window. All nonduality is is a viewpoint, a judgment. It’s hardly the truth.

That’s incorrect. It’s nothing to do with duality but rather with challenging ideas to make us think about what we says. The part about being indefensible is not entirely correct either. For if that were the case then Leo would be unable to make money of his site or videos, let alone be able to post videos. If every position (including non duality) is indefensible then what you are left is either paralysis from being unable to pick a side or people staying attached to what they know because you cannot convince them otherwise. The chicken or egg question isn’t solved by nonduality, rather it just ignores the question. I mean it really doesn’t matter which came first. Duality is also not groundless for something is either A or not A. That’s simple logic, but unfortunate existence it a bit more complicated than that. Even existence and non existence are opposite ends, there isn’t a middle ground there. Objective reality does exist, we just can’t know it. But that’s not really mind blowing, that’s high school biology. Criticism is tenable to a degree. Those who say otherwise don’t understand how much they benefit from its fruits. And positions are most certainly not indefensible for again, nothing spawned by humans would exist. Opinions and beliefs clash against each other. There is a reason that Skepticism didn’t flourish beyond Ancient Greece and why the munchausen Trilema isn’t insurmountable. Science is proof of that. No matter what you believe you must accept somethig on faith to get anywhere. Sadly people just assume nonduality to be truth, but it is ultimately as “indefensible” as any other position.

and duality is not separate from nonduality. after all, all is one. duh. I see often people talk about ego and it just all seems a little misguided. sure it makes sense that people want to "shed their ego" or however it is that's popular to say it. but you do not destroy what is ego and make it leave, you simply find a way to stop seeing the illusion of ego - the belief of it - you cease from being slave to it. if anyone thinks that even leo, or sages, or buddha, or the divine are without ego that you are gravely mistaken. look to what transcending means in other aspects of self actualization. everything is the same and yet it is all so different. what was true before enlightenment does not become false after enlightenment. chop wood before and after yada yada ... it is not to eliminate a lie of a belief and replace it with true belief. careful that this is not what you are doing! enlightenment may be to remove the illusion that you were trapped under before. but that illusion is ... idk... "morality" might be a good way to say. illusion is morality. the belief that one thing is right, is the limit to knowledge, that this is the best way and all other ways are wrong. The baby believes a boob is for food. and child understands that food is food, not boobs, boobs are for babies! a teen understands that a boob is sexy. an adult understands to not objectify the boob, it isn't an object to drool over, perhaps instead they come to see it as a symbol of motherhood and/or being a woman. and the woman who's had to face the sorrow of losing that symbol to breast cancer, she'll learn that the boob is nothing, there is no meaning to it, being without your boobs don't make you not be a mother nor woman, they are just flesh that we carry like all the rest. that who we are is not determined by the symbols we worship lmao. but clearly only one of those statements is true! no, no, they are all true, it is just that one holds more importance to you in your state of being. they do not stop being true because you have transcended past that viewpoint. they do not become less true. I like to think of it as, we remember various ideas and perspectives. and when it makes a difference to apply these as a practice or strategy or action or errand if you will, then they become useful. and that usefulness we call "truth" - see? once it has been found less necessary, it has been found to be nothing more than an idea to remember. this is what transcending belief is. to make it not THE necessary reality of it. to move past dependence on the belief. transcending the ego? it is to see that life is not limited by the symbols, the belief, of what we've worshiped all our life. those symbols and beliefs don't stop existing. there is just more perspective to it, that helps us to be wise in our behaviors. I use the word "I" all the time, the concept of the self is iconic to imply ego! but what other word would I use to describe the ego that I constantly experience? see - ego is duality. and nonduality cannot be... the absolute, infinite... without all of duality giving contrast to oneness. when does the ego go away? in your lifetime it won't. at best you'll get glimpses of the absolute. never be fooled into thinking you've obtained it. we always were within the absolute, but the absolute has always been greater than just the ego we experience as existence. that is what ego is. it won't go away. it is as fundamental as perspective itself. the ego isn't a bad thing. what is "bad" is for someone to get carried away by the ego as if it is the only truth. it is just one piece of the infinite truth. and yet it is the only piece we have to work with at all.

There is no deception. That fact that you think there is any is itself the deception. To claim deception you need to know truth, but how can you know truth? Ultimately we call enemies of our beliefs deceived. But there is no deception. All people do is follow what they believe to be true, because there is nothing else we can do. Everything we act on is a belief because there is no ultimate grounding for any of it (including nonduality). Its like I said, for a guy who is a pyrrhonist Leo doesn’t act like it at all.

@Dodo you are missing some of the critical points in your reasoning. 1) there is no time, therefore everything is already “there”. Infinity exists now. 2) If you have experienced the nonduality of existence you would know that essentially and existentially there is no distinction between forms of manifestation. Word human is artificially created word of distinction. 3) there is absolutely no choice. There is only the illusion of choice. Which ultimately comes from one source. So if you really understand the non dual nature of existence you would stop arguing about anything. Because ultimately no choice and choice are the same. It’s all about perspectives...

I've had some glimpses into nonduality, yet don't get the "there is no reality" thing. What is the definition of real? Are reality and existence different? How can one say something does not exist? My experience now seems like existence just "IS", while reality is my interpretation of existence. My story.

Ego is within nonduality, it is not separate. I suppose its fair to say an egocentric perspective is a dual perspective.

@soul haha I giggled cute word play! I like the way you have shifted what "I" means. I warn tho, since it is in fact on-topic - i notice people seem to think that all is self means their current state of ego is everything there is. it isn't. transcention is, in a cute way, to extend the ego so that it is more encompassing the kitty doesn't cease to be real because it isn't the ego you are limited by. she sure exists too, and as long as you are trapped in duality, she remains true and not-you. have you ever been the kitty? how about every kitty? only then can you trully say you have been infinite. as long as you only accept that you are part of the infinite, and do not include [the kitty] and [you] and [you being the kitty] and [you remembering being the kitty but no longer being her] and [you not remembering having been the kitty despite having been so or perhaps having yet to been so or really time is just an illusion so both are true and false] and [you before you knew you were the kitty]....... and who knows maybe the kitty can do all these things too so if she can you gotta do those as well! But sure as hell you gotta go be the kitty without ever having been not-her nor having ever again been not-her, just been the kitty and not anything else beyond that. so unless you have done all that, you can never actually truthfully say you have been the kitty. and as such you can never truthfully say you have been the absolute. And so in this way, you are always locked in ego, you will never leave it. you are always locked in duality, and will never leave it. even if you do somehow manage to be the kitty in all those ways and then some, don't stop there, because you gotta then go do that for all the kitties as well, all ants and all humans and all of all individuals, and all atoms and waves and gluons and particles and quantum states, and all concepts too. and especially the ones you never came up with yet, as well as been all of the nothingness to counterbalance all of these, and every false belief as well. And did I mention all of existence (and non-existence and outside-the-box-of-existence-and-non-existence) we can never fathom: AKA all of that what we can fathom can fathom also can never fathom? Without being all of that, and in all the various dimensions of being that that I mentioned about the cat plus some.... without all that you will only have glimpses of something awe-inspiring, some thing that you claim to be the infinite, the absolute, god - but that is just a belief upon its ending, even if it is true in the moment of it. its ending is its death for you and you return to your brittle ego. and unless you're having that "glimpse" right now you can't say you're in it truthfully - just because you are the absolute and the absolute is you don't mean the same thing as you accomplishing that level of consciousness - only that level of belief! And even if you manage to be "in" that existence of the absolute -"in" as in a conclusive "within" and not the limited within that is duality aka ego. Even being that conclusive absolute, but taking the action to state you collapse to be limited ego and not unlimited absolute. By having this conversation we prove to be finite dual ego, and by taking the action to not partake in the conversation we in fact do the same regardless! this is the nature of duality and nonduality to be perfectly frank. so be careful. You can never "be" the absolute in its wholesomeness of it - you can only be in its image.

If you think there's somebody else then that is not solipsism, since the self is all there is according to it. In fact I think solipsism is nonduality. Multiple humans, animals, etc, one self.

@DocHoliday Last night while driving, I cried uncontrollably about life's meaninglessness and the inevitability of death, then I laughed uncontrollably about life's meaninglessness and the inevitability of death, then I cried uncontrollably because the beauty was too overwhelming. Tonight, I watched your video and laughed some more. Thank you for sharing As for fight club...yes. I was a Bob. Then again, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Anyone who is "not ready" to hear about spirituality will likely forget about it the next day. I call this the vampire rule. You know how vampires can't enter a house until they're invited? IRL, don't talk about nonduality unless someone explicitly asks you about it.