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Life isn't hard, you are just making it hard. Notice the word "you". There is no "you", it isn't like suicide since there was no "you" to suicide with in the first place. Your ego/identity (the you) is making life to be this extremely hardship, harsh and even happy place, when it isn't. Life is neutral. Life isn't the ego. If you feel like you want to belong or be something, be the universe, because that is what you are. You're not your ego, you are infinite and everything.

@Ether The problem is not thinking. The problem is your conception of "reality" and what value you give it. Actually, everything is neutral. Your experience or the collectives agreed values of it may not be. Example: It is agreed that holding black slaves in US is bad. That is slavery. It is agreed that paying close to nothing for Asian products are ok and not slavery. Funfact: I heard that "suicide-nets" are now being installed on tall buildings...in order for non african-non-usslaves to jump of the factory to kill them nonslave selfs. Most things are point of view. Most people do not want to have a view.

How is awakening not suicide? It is suicide just that you have to keep on living 'cause your body's still there. Tbh, no one can tell me deep inside, that they don't feel like "what am I still doing here" after awakening, it feels like "yeah then lets help other people to understand their suffering, only because I know I am not me and I am lost and life is meaningless." That is how I feel. You can prolly sense that I've been a lifetime pessimist

It is like it doesnt even matter, so suicide doesnt even matter either. I dont feel comfortable with being lost.

Seekers call it dark night of the soul. But I did a research on internet and saw that dozens have committed suicide after meditation (especially retreat) and hundreds became mentally disabled (depression, psychosis, panic attacks and etc). I saw people on psychology forums who have been suffering from depersonalization for years after doing several months meditation.

Meditation once a day (20 minutes) brought me to the edge of suicide.

I think I am not strong enough for this awakening. It is literally a psychological death, it feels like it. Please tell me I am not crazy, I feel like I am not exisiting in this concept of time anymore or I cant. I awakened myself by overthinking to a point where my mind automatically made me awake. Trust me. I FEEL LIKE SUICIDE WOULDNT BE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE STATE OF MIND IM IN FOR MONTHS NOW. Unfortunately I havent noticed any of the good yet. Just pure suffering. If that is awakening, I woudve for sure renounced it. Day by day I realize that "I" cant exist anymore due to circumstances in my mind. When will the moment come, when I feel one with myself, not feeling like regretting that I havent killed myself? I am literally not amused with the word "awakening", since it is such a life threatening issue in my case. I feel my ego is just nothing, very vague, about to break, protecting itself by telling me I have to kill it phsically. So when I am just not what I thought I am, my mind tells me everything of me is vague, why should it be so different to killing myself. It is somehow the easier way than carrying around the burden of this issue. It is the same as suicide, every enlightened person says that suicide is the ultimate enlightenment. It is a valid feeling of death. Just psychologically, so, how can this ever be a bliss? I am not suicidal. It just gets more serious in that matter, that everything in my mind I identify with is so existential, so deeply rooted.

@mohdanas Why does reality exist? Where did you come from? What are you? What are other people? What happens when you die? Why is there evil in the world? Is there a heaven & hell? Do paranormal things exist or not? Is suicide ok? Are there really aliens? Are they spiritual, hostile? How does atom and quantum make sense together? Is intuition real? Are there psychic powers? Is infinity self aware? Do you have free will?

@Mikael89 Just a note from my travels, but upon the first realization of nonduality, there was absolute clarity that thoughts are brain stuff (dream stuff) and the dream by and large is not a thought of the Being, but rather so far outside of what a brain could comprehend, because the brain is dream stuff. Direct experience from outside the brain is necessary, cause the Truth is incommunicable, and even if it wasn’t, it’s unbelievable - as in, no one could be expected to believe or fathom it. That, is death. Death is not a bad thing like society believes. But, you experience this, then try to tell people, and you just come off as arrogant, lying, ignorant, and someone starts talking about using it to justify suicide, etc. For one, crystal clear, for two - very messy.

I have been doing my damnedest to keep myself in a good healthy mindset, but I really just failed hard this week... Things have not been going to smoothly for me this week, (trying to support my husband for the suicide of his friend and now his dying grandfather, finding out my husband has been doing meth behind my back... and a fight between my sister and husband over stupidity) but I have been trying to just let it go and not let myself be run by it. It has been really hard keeping stuff in perspective with one thing after another just almost constantly knocking me down... Last night I decided to drink a little to just not think about any of it. (usually it works, I just get tipsy and pass out) But I couldn't get myself to stop thinking about all the bullshit... I felt like I was just sinking deeper and deeper into depression... I felt just hopeless and alone... So in a stupid drunken state, I grabbed a knife and sat in the bathroom just crying my eyes out... and I cut my wrist... I haven't done that stupid shit in 8 years... But I felt like I couldn't stop myself anymore... I feel so disgusted with myself.. I'm a mom now... I can't be doing shit like that... It's just selfish... My husband saw it and got really pissed at me.. but he hasn't said a word about it yet... I feel so stupid...

@Jamie Universe That's exactly what im saying lol And yeah I think I will adopt children. @zoey101 Haha it sounds harsh but I think it's true, it brings in people into the world who have a bad foundation and just like a building a lot of the time it collapses, this could be suicide, alcoholism, whatever or you can rebuild the foundation, but this is extremely hard to do. I think my parents shouldn't have made me. No offense to my parents but they aren't actualized human beings in the slightest, no direction, fatalistic, working class mindset, addiction, close minded. And then that has left me to figure my whole life out from scratch without any good real life role models. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I think all humans deserve a good start.

@Joseph Maynor@dharm4 This has to do with a post I just left on suicide shortcut. I’ve been pondering this today.

Okay so I've watched most of leos videos and he has stated that he will make a video on nihlism, but I haven't found it, can anyone send me a link if they've found it. Or If not can you make a I think this is really core to enlightenment I think most people go through spiritual depression, and nihlism so . I know that leo made a video on dangers of meditation and mentioned these but he hasn't made a video on how to deal with nihlism and suicidal thoughts. I think this would be really useful for a lot of people and could get Leo a lot of views because almost everyone goes through an existential crisis from time to time and there isn't much practical non woowoo content on youtube that explains this.

I dont know, I am just really confused of everything. Today I woke up and felt fine but still I had this damn crippling feeling (which felt very very real!) that killing myself wouldnt have been different from what I experienced last days. It is like I completely ignore the idea of suicide my mind wants me to act on. It feels like again I am continue living whilst my mind doesnt want me to live. Is this interpretation just another delusion?

God dam... That made me cry... But you're right..no matter how furious and hurt I am... I know it's not about me.. he's been going through a lot lately.... Found out a friend he knew since middle school committed suicide... And now his grandfather that he doesn't really like (because he asked if our daughter came out white) is dying... And he hasn't seen him yet... I don't know what to do...

@Mikael89 Well suicide involved the body dying as well, like the heart stops beating and all that. The death I experienced, I died as an ego and the body kept running its course. The best description I can come up with is, imagine being dead but being able to still see through your eyes and use the body. It kind of does not make sense, that is why experiencing it for yourself helps a ton. Whatever I say, won’t help too much. But I do get where you’re coming from. The psychadelic high is a hallucination inside the hallucination (life) itself. For example when you’re sober how do you know your brain is not hallucinating reality? How do we know for sure anything really exists? All we have is our human senses thats it, its never a DIRECT experience. I feel that I went beyond human perception with psychadelics. But thanks for the feedback it is true we should question everything! ☺️

Update: He comitted suicide. Said he couldn't take it any longer. Some people are just not meant for success and being in the spotlight. He hated the fame, but always loved making music.

What I can say is that this message is very important to me. I remember clearly when I was in my bed thinking on suicide more than two years ago. I remember I was thinking on how my mother would be sad if I killed myself. But just thinking on your mom is not what makes you overcome suicidal thoughts. You can't relieve your suffering with the suffering of other people. You can't relieve your suffering with pity. I can't remember exactly when, but there was a moment when I thought: "I have a purpose and I won't give up. I can overcome it because I always believed it's possible." It's kind my slogan in life: "you can overcome anything in life." I have many rants with people who say it's not possible to overcome anything in life. I remember when my grandma was sick and my father told me: "there is no way for her, she'll live this way until she dies." My grandma died unhappy. But I would argue a lot with my father telling him: "yeah, even with dementia, grandma can have a happy life." But he insisted on telling me that she was done. It was kind like: "just wait her die." I was young. I think I was 14 or 15 (can't remember). But it was very unfair with my grandma. No one defended my idea that was possible for her to have a happy life even with dementia. I'm feeling angry towards my family now because while I'm writing it, I'm realizing of how unfair and hopeless my family was. Yes, I'm sure it's my life purpose. I'll help people believe it's possible to overcome anything in life. I love my father anyway. But I had many rants with him of what's possible in this life. I recognize that he never told me it was not possible to overcome schizophrenia. I think he did his best to educate me and put food in my mouth. I haven't found my top 10 values in life, top 5 strengths and top 5 goals though. I don't know how is Leo's approach towards these things. I just had a talk with a person today who told me I can express my ideas clearly. Some strengths that I also have: writing, drawing, physicality and linguistics. Values and goals change with time, but I haven't assessed them yet.

You'll learn isn't true, infact Leo doesn't promote killing yourself for the truth through suicide. It can occasionally happen where people will "kill themselves in the name of truth" but this is stupid in my opinion. Realize if anything has "should" or "I need to" in it, that pretty much means its dogma. For example "truth is the only thing that matters, and look how all these silly things distract me!" He's also done a video on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Which describe the need for sex and love, and if your smart you'll realize that working hard towards enlightenment will be hard if your not dealing with these other things in life, and that doesn't always mean "I need to satisfy my sexual need" but you need to deal with it responsibly somehow. I also chase emotions, but by practing do-nothing meditation, I've come to realize and accept that you won't always be feeling amazing. Which sounds shitty right? No, just realize that's there's two separate parts to it, you've got 'the need' and also the 'feel good' and your mind meshes those two together making "I need to feel good" but if you change the "I need" part by accepting you won't always feel good, then it will no longer tear you to shreds. that's sort of the theory anyway, but know that 'feeling good' is a material need, or in other words - a thing that exists that I need man this is just life, I know it probably seems unbearable and shitty, but your only in this life for who knows how long, and if there's a legitimate chance there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and coins along the way, then don't let the rain beat that hard on you that you want to quit. Contemplate, research, ask questions, just think. The rainy may be soggy and miserable, but you'll learn by looking up that its because of the rain, that the rainbow exists.

@Jed Vassallo Here’s something I wrote down today that I think relates: “When you’re dreaming, do you think you’re the one who’s controlling it? Doesn’t everything seem so real when you’re in the dream? But then you wake up and say ‘that was a crazy dream, it felt so real!’ And go on with your day. When we have bad nightmares, the subconscious urge to wake up becomes stronger. Doesn’t it always seem in our nightmares we wake up abruptly when we are in danger or about to die? Life is a dream within a dream, just wake up!” Life looks literally like an absolute nightmare to those who commit suicide. After my first experience with enlightenment, I fell into psychosis and thought that I would actually physically die if I fell asleep. My ego backlashed HARD. I was so desperate I went to the hospital and I made them give me drugs just to make me fall asleep because I hadn’t slept in days, and of course I awoke in a psychiatric unit. I guess this is the weird metaphor, things are finally seem to be coming full circle for me.

This thread gave me a thought. Most people think that people who commit suicide are cowards. But, it takes (in most cases I'd imagine) the strongest will possible to actually end your life. It takes that exact same strongest of will to purposely kill the totality of your Ego/Self. It's a shame for all those that have committed suicide. They were looking for a way out of the suffering. If only they knew that they could kill themselves, without having to end their life. I bet once this knowledge spreads, the suicide rate will drop drastically.

you talk as if avicii failed his life, he "couldn't" handle it avicii came here and did what he had to do, sharing beautiful music with people all over the world bringing joy and positive vibes all over the world, clubs might be what some refer to as 'low-consciousness' but its places where people gather to have fun, to dance, to have a good time, this is a million times better then people killing and exploiting each other music is so transformative, so personal for so many people, it might not look like it but avicii is a modern day shaman. it might not fit a traditional image of a shaman, but you make music, you make people dance, bring them to other vibrations, you're a shaman not to idolize him by no means, he had his own issues yes, just like everyone else on this rock and this forum right now, he did what he had to do and then he left the earth to continue other ventures, its not because he died earlier that he failed. people die early, by accidents, sickness, suicide, murder, some souls dont want to stay on earth growing old, they might just want to experience what its like being a child then leave, there's no failure in that. if you don't get that life on earth is a magical virtual reality simulator pretty much that our souls are playing right now you'll see death as failure

Sorry to see you leave us @Source_Mystic . I understand what you're saying, and I actually read your warning post about the shamanic breathing technique and its risks and decided against it. I respect Leo a lot because he's a true pioneer and an invaluable resource of experience and knowledge. I also, however, use discretion in anything Leo or other teachers recommend that I feel is unorthodox and potentially unsafe. People need to take responsibility for themselves. I don't think Leo intends for this forum to be a cult at all; but he's accepted to a certain degree that it's human nature for people united under a common goal or interest to form a collective ego at some point. There are a ton of sweet, encouraging people on this forum dedicated to improving themselves and assisting others along the way; how could we not to take up for each other every once in a while? I do wish Leo would warn about the psychological impact his videos may have upon viewers with preexisting psychological disorders; it kind of scares me the number of people on this forum who literally want to commit suicide. It's flat-out creepy.

Sometimes it's good to go back to the roots of personal development. I don't know how much you guys know about the famous, Swedish DJ by the name of Avicii, but he died two days ago (unknown cause so let us not speculate too much, but there might have been drugs/alcohol involved/perhaps even suicide)... Anyways. I was watching his documentary "True Stories" which is about his career and the reason to why he stopped touring. Now his career kicked off super fast when he was around 20 years old, so obviously he was not mature enough for the fame he received. He resorted to alcohol to cope with his extreme anxiety and stress he felt. All of this might led to diseases and maybe ultimately his death? What's even more convincing is that I've looked up old Swedish forum posts from him back in 2006 where he started to spread some of his early music, and he also made posts about his anxiety and stress. Now he did nothing really about this core issue for him, and along with the fame and the chase for stardom and all of those things – of course through massive passion and hard work – he wasn't able to handle it. So already here it's a fact that money/fame does not cure your problems. This shows the extreme importance of setting personal development and the mastering of one's own psychology as a standard in schools/society overall. Instead of the chase of fortune and fame. Not to say those things can't make you happy – anything can, but the core problem can never be solved by masking. This also lead me to a video from Leo where he talks about this:

(Sorry for the bad english )So let me tell you how I got to this hell. From early in my childhood I felt that I didnt belong here. My mother left me at her grandparents until I was 4.She visited me once at 2 weeks. She was into trial whit my dad for me and I started to hear some horrific stuff adout my dad and my other grandparents from her and her grandparents. My mother grandparents told me that my other grandparents wanted to cut me to peaces and throw me to the trash can and in fact they dindt even wanted me to be born.(HOW RETARDED YOU MUST BE TO TELL THIS TO A 4 YEAR OLD KID). The thing is that back then I felt that my dad grandparents were the only one who actualy gave a shit about me. My childhood was this constant battle to make sense of who loves me and stuff like that. Fast foward 2 years I m in a new home whit me mother and my stepfather and I start school. The first 4 years of school were hell I was the bullied kid even the professors were making fun of me.I had no friends .Then my stepbrother and sister apeared. And I was the "left behind" kid.All the love was going to my stepbrother and sister and I was just looking and thinking why my parent dont love me the way they love my brother and sister. Fast foward another 6 years I was 12 and I had finaly decided to ask my dad grandparents about that shit that told me back when I was 4. My grandfather almost started crying and he told me the the whole story.In a nutshell he told my that when he found out that my mother was pragnent whit me he knew that my dad and her will not he able to raise me properly and that I will be a kid whit no mother and father.And boy he was right... I understude back then what he meant and I cound see how he was right... Fast foward to when I was 16 I had my first girlfriend.It felt amazing only do go south in 1 mounth when I found out that she cheated on my whit one of my only 2 friends. At school I was doing horrible I was the dumbest kid in the class because I could not do anyting because of the deppesion. And on top on all of this when I went home I will just hear."You are a failure,you will not do anything whit your life "and all this kind of bullshit. After 1 week I had my first suicide attempt at 16.It was unsucceful thx god. Then I found out about Leo. I started to watch his videos, my life was going really well,for the first time in my life I was happy.After 2 years I purchases his course.Amazing stuff there. But then resistance started to kick in and life starded to "happen again to me." When I found out about elightement I went into deppresion again.Because I realized that all of the stuff I wanted to do were just a distraction from the truth. I really half-assined enlightenment and almost went into psichosis. 3 years into future and I am here.I discovered that I am a psichopath and I dont feel anyting for anyone.For example I know that my dad grandparents love me at the logical level but at the emotional level I dont feel anyting is just a void inside myself. The same is for my mother,father,brother etc. I m dead inside really and I feel like no one loves me ,so I decided to take LSD and to go deeper on the problem.Bad idea.... The trip was so intense that I think I have ptsd now. It showed me that my biggest fear is to die without loving anyone.It showed me that I must go and satisfy my need for sex and love because I was like. "Enlightenment is the only thing that matters fuck love and sex". The trip was like all of my loneliness and paranora and "no one loves you" were X1000. It was not all just pure hell it helped me overcome one of my biggest fears. My fear was that I will go crazy from this enlightenment work ,but the trip showed me that I will not go crazy. I had changed my life went from a victim to a newbie artist. The thing is I feel really lonely. Right now I have friends and a great carrier up ahead but the thing is that I m dead inside. I dont feel anyting and the lsd really fucked me up. I dont know what to do guys I don't wanna kill myself but the loneliness does... I feel like I'm extra in this reality. Yersteday was my birthday I made 20 years and it was the worst day of this year, I feel lost in life.I feel like no one loves me. I feel like no one undestard me, my frieds call me crazy when I tell them about enlightenment but I dont care. ( I dont understand the truth I just know about it right now) . This loneliness and the lack of emotions is killing me, for 4 years I'm doing self-help and right now I feel like I'm at ground zero again. I'm strong guys but I'm tired..