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Patanjali says in first sutra Athayoganushasanam. translation- NOW THE DISCIPLINE OF YOGA. First try to understand the word "now". This "now" indicates to the state of mind. If you are disillusioned, if you are hopeless, if you have completely become aware of the futility of all desires, if you see your life as meaningless - whatsoever you have been doing up to now has simply fallen dead nothing remains in the future, you are in absolute despair - what Kierkegaard calls anguish. If you are in anguish, suffering, not knowing what to do, not knowing where to go, not knowing to whom to look, just on the verge of madness or suicide or death, your whole pattern of life suddenly has become futile. If this moment has come, Patanjali says, NOW THE DISCIPLINE OF YOGA. Only now you can understand the science of yoga, the discipline of yoga. If that moment has not come, you can go on studying yoga, you can become a great scholar, but you will not be a yogi. You can write theses upon it, you can give discourses upon it, but you will not be a yogi. The moment has not come for you. Intellectually you can become interested, through your mind you can be related to yoga, but yoga is nothing if it is not a discipline. Yoga is not a shastra; it is not a scripture. It is a discipline. It is something you have to do. It is not curiosity; it is not philosophic speculation. It is deeper than that. It is a question of life and death. If the moment has come where you feel that all directions have become confused, all roads have disappeared; the future is dark, and every desire has become bitter, and through every desire you have known only disappointment; all movement into hopes and dreams has ceased. ~OSHO @okulele Read more about 'real meaning' of Yoga http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/Yoga_The_Alpha_and_the_Omega_Volume_1/Osho-Yoga-The-Alpha-and-the-Omega-Volume-1-00000001.html http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/Yoga_The_Alpha_and_the_Omega_Volume_1/Osho-Yoga-The-Alpha-and-the-Omega-Volume-1-index.html

I have a question regarding one of Leos statements. He once said that you literally have to die to attain enlightenment. I think that statement was either made in "what is consciousness?" or "what is intelligence?". Does that mean for example, when I'm tripping and I'm asked for some mystical creature to jump from the balcony, I should do that? I mean how can i be sure, that there is no "evil entity", that is trying to trick me into killing myself or something? I'm asking that, because i already had similar experiences like that, but i thought, that this was bullshit, and therefore i did not kill myself. I'm certainly not that suicidal guy, but i need that to know what is beyond the profane existence. EDIT: Changed the titel

1. a suicide bomber, after his death, will be in "heaven" and get his 72 virgins. 2. heaven with gardens, fruits, milk-lakes (Quran/Bible version of Heaven) exists. about # 1 first. How can this be? the bomber is claiming so many innocent lives - how can such a person go to heaven? The answer: he goes to his version of heaven. We know that from God's point of view, there is no good/evil - it's all one, no distinctions So what appears to us in our experience is what we expect (law of attraction) What really drives this manifestation to reality is the BELIEF in it. We expect to die when we go in the water and cannot breath, or jump off a sky-scraper... (sounds silly, i know) but this expectation is another word for blind-belief, without a shred of a doubt... most suicide bombers/terrorists - especially in Afghanistan/Iraq etc are BRAINWASHED by another, promising heaven/72 virgins in the afterlife if they do this deed for the sake of God/Allah what we must realize is that these persons reach levels of belief that is unbroken, it is a 100% surety for them. some of these were taught when they were young kids... they have been grown up as lamb for slaughterING - so to them, it is an absolute truth that the end result is heaven their consiousness is clear - there is no guilt. only guilt needs to be gotten rid of. guilt/good/bad feelings are all illusiory... so provided that they have 100% belief in the end result, that is what they will manifest/see after death. that due to his/her deed, she/he is now in heaven (in the way it is consturcted in their mind - with other souls also living in that place jsut as others live among us in this dream of the "world" ) and in that construct of heaven, he/she will live eternally - he/she may never recognize the true nature/essence of us (may eventually) but that is the reality in which she/he lives after death AS THEIR MIND EXPECTS IT TO also. to those who practice law of attraction/manifestation. it only works if you have undying belief in the process not just that, if i think about being rich or getting money outta nowhere, it will happen. if you somehow became aware of the mechanics of this, and did believe as strongly as you do about dying if jumping outta building, then you will manifest that reality infront of you almost instantly about # 2 if one takes the pious/normal route to death and again, she/he is a believer of the heaven promised by Quran/bible - then that is where she/he will dwell allow me to ask you this. sure all that would/could be another construct of reality which is all illusiory - but given the option, would you not take it? that you can never die - live eternally in bliss and harmony - live with whoever you wish/will, marry or whatever as many women as you please (because that's the law of the land - in heaven, as we are told and as is constructed in your mind) in short: one having not a firm enough believe may not get this version of heaven after life, it is ultimately our beliefs which define our reality very important to note that this promised heaven is still illusiory but who will complain if one lives in eternal illusion if there is no pain, hungery, violence and nothing but fun,sex,food, no disease, no dirt, peace the higher level of full transesnedant out of the illusion to the god-head / oneness state is still the most higher level but this path/end still awaits to those souls who would be having this experinince knowing reality as all possiblities that can be, and all are now - then these states i describe above absoultely do exist. nothing can not exist. just the road-way, pathway to there needs to be taken - mechanism and belief is the key

I completely agree. Completely. I totally appreciate your effort, but it's not you the problem. The problem is that if you even DARE to chat about mens issues like suicide, not having purpose in life etc the left destroys your life and attacks you like you were the KKK, and at the same time they want tolerance for terrorists and ISIS. I think the left is in need of an insane asylum. How can you trust such a "progressive" movement? And I'm not from the right, I don't like conservatives. I'm very centrist politically. Another thing that worries some men and boys, in my opinion rightfully, is that we hope that once the womens issues are fixed, which I'm ALL IN FAVOUR and supportive, we can also get attention and empathy towards our problems. And at the end to get a pleasant society where everybody is accepted and not screamed at. Where there is no slut shaming and no "kill all men" and "all men are rapists". Why is it so hard to just care for our own life and let the other live their own? As a very calm and peaceful young man I find it very very cowardly to be classified as evil by the left. At the same time I don't like hearing slut shaming, because it's none of people's business what a woman does in her life. What I'm trying to say is that you can't fix some biases towards women by treating men like monsters, we are people with emotions and feelings and fears too. We love and breathe too. But to the left this is just nazi propaganda.

In this essay, I will try my best to use the language of logic to indicate the significance of the illogical for those who are too attached to logic, yet I will also argue against the illogical for those who are too attached to the dimension of the heart. Then, I'm trying to create a holistic perspective in which both are integrated, but neither one of them has become an attachment. This will have its limitations, because the first "illogicality" I was talking about was in a certain sense still logical. That illogicality can still be logically pointed out why it is functional. So there's a certain rationality towards that dimension of being irrational. However, there is a certain point where no matter how strong your logic is, a leap will have to be taken into trust. Trust, genuine trust (not faith or belief), requires you to take a jump into the absurd, the unexplainable, the unknowable: not having the capacity to be understood by the mind. This I call the truest form of absurdity, of illogicality. It's difficult to argue why this has so much significance to take this jump; you will have to experience it, that's the only way. However, there are still some pointers I can provide, some perspectives that can be utilized. But obviously, only the direct experience can free you and truly make you understand it, and not a intellectual agreement of it, though this can be the first step. Firstly, let's discuss the matter of why atheism/rationalism, and its loyal brother called "science", is an act of limiting yourself and ultimately an ego strategy for keeping you stuck. Often times, people ask for "evidence" when a certain statement is made within the realm of religiousity or spirituality, or even just general self-development. The problem is, that such a thing cannot be proven as an absolute truth by its very nature, because everybody is different. Science is good for the development of new technologies and the discoveries of universal truths, such as the realm of physics and mathemathics. However, as far as the matter of humanity is concerned, things really start becoming much more complex. The realm of spirituality, religion and even psychology are cluttered with paradoxes and opposites. What is poison for one person, can be the cure for the other one. It all depends on the makeup of someone's system: one's heart, one's beliefs, one's conditioning, one's personality and so forth... For this reason, how can science and psychology provide any evidence for a technique that would work for all? Impossible! We are all unique individuals, and there is no absolute truth that works for everyone all the time. At least, as far as the conventional perspective is concerned. From the perspective of the absolute, of the all, then perhaps there are truths that work for everyone. Let me give you an example. Take the statement: Love frees you from suffering. Is this true? I would definitely say so. However, what happens when people start taking this statement very seriously? Then people start to act loving, to pretend they are loving, to believe they are loving, when in reality they carry a lot of judgement, resentment, hatred and so forth within them. In reality, the action that is required for them could be to become very assertive, dismiss people out of their lives, start saying "NO!", become angry at someone and defend themselves from hurt that others can inflict upon them. It's not to say that THAT is the absolute truth either for happiness and peace, but it is the relative truth that at that moment works for them, because that is a part they need to develop at that point. True love is only possible when you know how to defend and assert yourself. True love also doesn't mean to always be soft, kind and gentle towards people. Sometimes it is necessary to be harsh and to deliver uncomfortable truths to people directly. Again, relative truths that they need to embody at that stage of their development. Do you see the limitations of science here in the fields of psychological development? Humans are incredibly complex, and a particular advice can be poison for one person and medicine for the other. It all depends what part of them they need to develop at that particular stage in their evolution. Sometimes masculine values have to practiced, and sometimes feminine values. What I just argued for wasn't necessarily against atheistic viewpoints so much; It didn't do much to disprove the notion of a purely materialistic and accidental reality, as atheists believe, but my feeling is that many rationalists turn towards science to explain for them how to live, and my argumentation was to support the dismissal of this notion. Then, if we understand the complexity of our psychology, and we realize that there are no absolute truths and therefore techniques or methods we can eternally hold onto, we may start to realize that our intellectual systems will eventually be limiting towards progressing further in our evolution. Then, we may start looking for a different center from which to make decisions from. This is where the heart comes into play: The world of feelings and emotions. However, what usually (if not always) happens is that instead of understanding that an integration between heart and mind needs to take place, which allows the intuition of the soul to truly open up, we start instead becoming identified with our feelings and we dismiss the cold rationality of the mind. It's not that the mind now has completely disappeared, but that it now utilizes the heart for its beliefs and decisions. It's not that at this point that the identification with the mind has been transcended, but that the mind now simply doesn't purely function from itself only. Feelings now have a great significance, and certainly they do have a great existential importance, but the irony is that the mind starts dismissing its own analytical processes; at least on the surface level. In reality, the mind is still running the entire business, but the underlying belief one is now attached to is: "I should go by what feels right". One does now realize the importance of connection, love, communion, empathy and so forth, but fails to understand that the mind has to be used in this physical reality. Mind has its purpose, and needs to be used consciously, instead of being dismissed. If we fail to integrate our heart and mind, we then start becoming too "weak". We become too floaty, too undriven, too undisciplined. We start dismissing rational, logical decisions which would've helped us further or prevented us from getting in trouble because "It doesn't feel right" Ultimately, this will backfire on us. This is the hypocrisy that —often cold-hearted— rational people such as atheists can see in people who are too identified with their emotions and feelings, as we are experts in pointing out the flaws of our polar opposites, but fail to see the dysfunctionality within ourselves. So naturally, scientists, atheists, rationalists, and all the types of people who are functioning almost purely from their mind and logical systems, feel a great resistance towards the people who get so caught up in their emotions and feelings, as they can see that they get nothing done, that they lack a "down-to-earth" approach, that they are too much floating around in the skies, that they lack self-control and discipline. And certainly, there is a certain truth to this. However, if we dismiss our subjective reality entirely, then we set ourselves up for a great amount of suffering. Then we keep in our emotions, then we start to feel disconnected from existence and other human beings, then we repress our desires if they don't correlate to our rationalist perspective, then we start becoming overwhelmed by stress and anxiety... You may become very succesful in the material world, but you'll realize it's all hollow and you're still the same unhappy person as you were before. In fact, you are unhappier now because you now got what you thought you needed to be happy, but you're still not happy. Now, hope also starts slipping out of your hands. The only way out of this is to start realizing the significance of your subjective reality; You start honouring your feelings, your emotions. You allow yourself to cry or to express joy and laughter in a very frivolous, free-flowing manner. This can be a great relief to your system, and you start to realize the significance of feelings and emotions. However, as I have already explained, the mind tends to swing to the polar opposite. At first we may have honored our rationalism to a great degree, but as we started seeing the pain of our lack of emotional awareness, we now tend to become very antagonistic towards what we first considered to be so valuable. Somehow, we often start to forget all the hypocrisy we saw in people who became very identified with their emotions and feelings. I have already explained what this can result in. Let's get into the next phase. There comes a point when we start once again see the limitations of this identification with all these feelings and the dismissal of the mind, as we were able to when we were still rationalists. However, if we've lived through this phase of feeling-identification, we now start to realize that both heart and mind has a certain significance. This is the door to wisdom. We start to understand that both the language of the heart and the mind has a certain significance. What we don't immediately understand however, is how to proprely integrate both of them. We now start to try to philosophize and figure out logical systems in which we can somehow apply a technique, a strategy, a method as on how to integrate them. We think and think, and the more we go into the many perspectives on what ground or logic we can make our decisions on, the more we start to realize that there is always an opposite perspective to whatever standpoint we take. We use logic —the mind— to try and integrate mind and heart, but again and again we fail to truly understand how to find this balance, because if we really go deeply into it, we always realize that an opposing argument is just around the corner for whatever standpoint we try to take. This can lead to greats amount of confusion, because we don't know what is left and right anymore, what's up and above, what will help us and what will hinder us, what is forward and what is backward... Life can start becoming really difficult and, as was my personal experience, you can come to a point where you become so confused that it paralyzes you to the point where all you do is lay in bed all day, just thinking —even though you're physically perfectly health— and the confusion and thoughts become so crippling that you lose the motivation to do anything at all, except for perhaps supplying the needs for your physical survival. This is the dark night of doubt and confusion, which I personally probably went into more extremely than 99% of people ever will, granted people will reach this stage in their life in the first place. It got me to the point where I started considering and attempting suicide. And it was not merely because I wanted the pain to stop (as I was very open to the idea of reincarnation, this seemed rather futile anyways), but because all other ideas had failed for me, I now had the idea that perhaps if I push the pain to so far that it reaches a certain limit, then perhaps it will somehow instantly transform me, or at least reverse the direction that my life seemed to be heading in. I'm talking about the pain you experience when you're on the edge of death, but haven't made the last step into it yet. So it wasn't really about actually ending it, but pushing the pain to such an extreme so that perhaps something would crack in me and I would have some sort of transformation. It was a last-resort solution, no other idea seemed to work for me anymore. Eventually, I started to realize that this wasn't going to work out for me either. Either it was going to be actual suicide, or a complete change in attitude. Even though I had very strong doubts and fears that it would actually work, there was just one thing I could think of. And that was this: I simply had to make decisions, not knowing whether they were right or wrong, not knowing whether they were helpful or hindering, not knowing whether it was going to make things better or worse, but making decisions for the sake of learning to make decisions, and committing to them (for that moment), as much as I can. It was completely stepping into the complete unknown, having all my intuitive capacities of feeling what I should be doing overshadowed by doubts and fears, and despite all of that still making decisions, and somehow, for no logical explanation at all, still trusting myself and existence in spite of all the worries, that I was heading in the right direction. This is the trust I want to talk about. This is the trust I can not —despite all my clever philosophical capacities— make an argument for as to why to go with it. Except for that it works. Where one who is identified with feelings only may call his/her decisions based on trust, it is still based on faith and identifying with a mental position, namely: "I should go with what feels right". It seems like you're trying to go with your intuition, but in fact, you're not. You're going with a mental position, where your heart simply facilitates your head. Or perhaps I should say: you're going with feeling-intuition, but not with being-intuition. Being-intuition seems in some ways similair to feeling-intiution, but in fact it is radically different. This is the type of intuition that I can not explain or argue in favour for to any rationalist. With feeling-intuition, I can still show the rationalist the significance of feelings and emotional expression as to unburden himself. With being-intuition, my hands are tied. It is a mystery as to what it is. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what feels right", thus implying heart. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what needs to be done", thus implying mind. And sometimes it is somewhere in between. But of course, it doesn't take up a mental position. It simply decides. And you trust it. How can you trust it? How do you know it won't deceive you? Well, there's no way to argue it away, but you simply trust it. It is letting the unknown function through you, and the only indication that this is the right thing to do is the sense of tranquility and peace you get from going along with it, which doesn't mean it stays away from discipline and things you really don't feel like doing. Often times, I don't really even know if I'm listening to my being-intuition or if i'm getting identified with either a mental or emotional (feeling-intuition) position. I'm not so acquianted with it just yet. I've only started to become somewhat acquainted with turquoise for less than a year now [reference to spiral dynamics model]. To differentiate being-intuition from and identification with an idea or feeling is very difficult to notice, very subtle. Most characteristic about it, I would say, is that the element of confusion or hesitation has started disappearing from it. Not that you know for sure this is the right decision, at least intellectually, but there's is no need to be sure anymore. You start to understand that the problem all along was not the decisions you were making, but the division within yourself you were creating when you were making your decisions. One part of you said you should do A, another part said you should do B. Perhaps you were identified with the position of A, but still your unconscious desired for B (or vica versa), so you were in conflict. Perhaps you were genuine enough to see both the validity of A and B, but were unsure as to what to choose, thus still in conflict. Now, with this being-intuition, the decision you make is not important anymore. You can choose A, and that's fine. You can choose B, and that's fine. Perhaps you can even choose AB, and that's also fine. Or perhaps today you choose A, and tomorrow you choose B, and eitherway it is still fine. Now, you start to become truly flexible: being able to switch between a feminine, passive modality to a masculine, active modality very quickly, for whatever the situation requires. You realize that none of this really matters, as long as there is not conflict within you making decisions. Finally, you really start to realize there's no need to worry at all, because you've come to the absolute realization of your own ignorance, so why be worried? You don't know anyways. You can't know! All this worry and striving and contemplating and pondering and disciplining and attempting to accept, trying to not try... All of that was just a complete joke! And you don't even renounce striving, or contemplating or anything like that. If it's a joke, then why avoid it? Jokes are to be played around with. If you start fighting with a joke, it won't be a joke anymore. In realizing all of this, true spirituality and peace starts to become available to you. Finally, you're approaching the promised land, which in reality was never anywhere else but here to begin with. But... Don't take what I say as a philosophy. You have to apply the specific lessons that are relevant for you right now. Your situation is different than mine. Be genuine with yourself, and see what the specific lesson is that you need to learn right now. Don't try to avoid it, even if it is very painful. The only way to peace is to go through the pain of facing yourself, facing your demons. There is no other way. Avoidance is simply delay. What's the point in delay?

For me, it was unconscious suffering. I had to choose between suicide or non-duality. Some choose suicide. I think Jeff Foster is another person who had to choose between suicide or non-duality.

Dear Stretch, you asked so I'll give it to you straight, One think you are running towards something, but the fact is you are merely seeking to avoid what you fear the most. The true Spiritual path is not up but down, its not trying to become something but allowing yourself to become nothing. And I am not talking about the switcheroo of self deception where one pretends to be nothing so that the ego, the very subtle ego, is still hoping to be something. (Something and nothing often having to do with significance) The Universe is a big place, the more you see of it the smaller you feel and the more you will seek to compensate. There was a monk who unlike the other monks never snuck out over the walls at night to visit the ladies in town, he was absolutely sincere in wanting to attain his first samadhi, there was a very holy week coming up and so he decided he would remain upon the top of a tower at the temple fasting and meditating and so he did, but the week went by, and he found himself as he was and decided why bother, and so he slowly lifted his leg over the railing so as to end his life. He did not jump, there was no hurry, his mind did not obsess, he had simply let go of his ambition. It was at this point that he attained samadhi. This is a stage that cannot be faked, suicide is not even important in the story, he simply stopped thinking about himself. Now here is a truth you need to swallow, a man can never possess what he HAS, he can only possess what we GIVES AWAY. If you give love, then you burn that fact into reality itself and nothing in the universe can contradict that, people can write books about how selfish you are, media can carry it across the world to where every human being actually believes you are selfish, and yet if you have given it, the universe will know and you will know. So in practical steps, start thinking about something nice you can do for another, you don't have to know the mysteries of the universe, rather allow yourself to be insignificant, be vulnerable, be broken, but be wise.

Leo said consciousness is not a biological phenomenon. Then, is it possible for my consciousness to exist as a ghost after death? Or, will my death lead to disappearance of my consciousness? Or, am I already a ghost living in an illusion of physical embodiment? Which is it? Do note that I am not pondering suicide. The opposite is the truth in my mind. I have been pondering what it's like to live forever. But, that question can wait until I obtain some kind of immortality. I'm not even sure if immortality is possible.

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo that helps me too. I tend to have an idea about nothing and hold it in my body as a space, it tends to help me. I wonder why people can't handle nothing, is it maybe just cause it's not what they are looking for? They can't die, they can't jump, cause this is suicide what we are doing (as Michael James said), we must be pretty extreme patients to be here in this intensive care hospital, on our deathbeds. It never neutralizes substance, cause substance is already an illusion in Nothing, so ego thrives, cause ego is empty, and it gives 'form' to the Nothing. That is not good. But somethings can still be looked at as you know by identifying the mind's projected 'something' in the Nothing. This is discernement, and done without somethinging anything. I have not anythinged anything either

The ones that terrified me as a teen were the ones with wings. If I found one flying around before bedtime, I would not sleep until it was dead. This all happened because one night I was sleeping and had this "dream". I had this dream of eating something god-awful. It tasted like paper, rough, and gishy in my mouth and it had a foul stink to it. When I woke up, I realized that I had probably had one of the fliers land on my face, go into my mouth, and I had eaten it. It was really weird because they seem to like to go into your mouth while you're sleeping. Later, I found the nest brewing in my comic collection, brought them out in the open, and killed them all by hand & foot. These days I figure they were probably going into the mouth to try and get food in your teeth, need a drink, or perhaps to commit suicide. Last year, when I was in India, the corporate bathrooms would have nests of these things just hanging out on the walls or floors, undisturbed running their little roach errands or hanging out. Since I was awake, it didn't really bother me, but I'd destroy them if I found them in my bedroom (fortunately none were found in my hotel room). These days what gets on my nerves are wasps. I work from home & I'll be talking to a customer & have one large one suddenly fly out, heading to the bananas to build on their nest. The first time, I called maintenance to handle it in case it was a nest. However, it was just one. He killed it. A few weeks later, another popped out & heading to the bananas. On the last time, I found that if you just tap them from the top in mid-flight with your broom, they'll drop to the ground fast & then you can crush them quickly. This one was still alive after I pounced it, so I scooped it up & put it outside in case it was still alive (can live out the rest of its existence or be a resource for another animal). I've also found that what really bothers me about them is the jerky movement when they're on surfaces as well. They move in such an unpredictable way. At any rate, that's how I've handled my fear with them: try to find an explanation as to what they're doing around me, then kill it if it feels to be a threat, otherwise, ignore it.

Hey, since the last therapy session Ive felt kinda worse - it was the first very emotional one for me. For almost a year now, Ive been looking for answers for there being literally two "I's" in me. Let's call them subminds, that's how I was taught to call them by a buddhist teacher. So, there is one submind, thats been active since August last year, which obviously always had been there before, just hidden or not active. However, it is a submind with a deathwish, which is potentially connected to the divorce of my parents and fights between my mum and brother - I remember I told him several times that I'd kill myself and him (I think), but particularly myself if their fights would continue. This was at the age of around 7-11. I didnt process everything really well. That is the reason why I got OCD after the divorce. When my brother had kind of a psychotic break last year, my mind went whirlwind and I got severely depersonalized and derealized. That was when everything worse started. Basically I recovered from DPDR, but in August I got this feeling that a part of me didnt want to live anymore and so I dissociated from a complete person and split into a 'good' part and a suicidal part, I am not actively suicidal though. However, as you know, everyone has a bad and a good part inside, but for me this bad part literally feels like it is me for like 60% when it is active, maybe even 70% and that makes it so hard - if you feel like you are not supposed to be here anymore. It is like a second you growing and evolving inside you that feels really like it is you, if that makes sense... One trigger is time, like the date or passage of time - I cope with the split of my self by explaining it with irrational thoughts, such as, that I feel like that in August I potentially stopped living and I am not supposed to live anymore, living after the day those submind got active. Another one is that I feel like I broke out of the passage of time in August and live in resistance with time itself. So, I see myself especially triggered when there is anything about dates or so. Then main triggering is everything that is about "me" as a person - job, work, future, children - how is someone able to think about that stuff when there is 50-70% of yourself feeling like you arent supposed to live anymore? (Talking about me) Thing is, this is not suicidal thoughts, it is rather a complete different "me", like another society or so, like a multiple personality but not that extreme. You know, I know what it is like to deal with anxious and panicky thoughts but this is on another level, occured out of nowhere. It is so difficult to continue like that because you just do not know which part is you Is this a result of childhood trauma? I am really in need for help with this. I feel divided, not complete, I dont know how I can still hold on, Ive never wanted to die or to end my life. What I definitely can feel is the reason why people choose suicide. It is absolutely reasonable.

It is just pure mess, trauma processing, depression vs. finding a job THAT I LIKE vs. my parents, especially mum's pressure (money from the state, child allowance...). It is just that I cant find anything interesting enough in order to really have the passion to pursue it. And I am forced to do something if I dont do anything or do not find anything this year. I see it coming, my mum will kick me out, and I am left blaming myself, cant go to the therapist anymore and I am ready to suicide, because I cant find any meaning in living a normal life. I. Just. Cannot. It is a blockage in my damn mind. And I am really in need and pressured to find something in 2018 or my mum will go insane. I am 19, graduated last year, my brother is unemployed, that is why he got kicked out this year by my mum. But I just dont know, I always thought I would study, I could and theoretically, I'd be able to, but I am in a bad state mentally, that I dont trust myself enough to go through with it. So, I can only hope for an interesting apprenticeship, but there are only so boring jobs, where I get depressed only by reading through them. What I do like is media designer, but it is seems like it is too late to apply for something like that in 2018 (I tried several times...) PLUS that is something everyone in my age wants to do. You cannot talk with my mum, she will justify this and that and everything with my brother's failure, SO I CANT tell her that I AM NOT in a good state of making these choices NOW. But it will just bounce back from her ego-shield of telling me "that I am not her son and why I do that to her" and "I dont want to see you loafing here in the next month" or "You will do something, no matter what, if it was dishwasher, I DONT CARE!". Shit, I DONT WANT TO DO THAT, it is JUST MY BRAIN AT THE MOMENT. BOAH. I AM SO OVERWHELMED BY THOSE CHOICES, IT IS KILLING ME.

Never heard about suicide attempt, can you elaborate more on that?

That's interesting, the poisoning seems probable. But still even if he was poisoned why the suicide attempt. Perhaps he got so weak from the poisoning that he saw it as the only way to go.

So in the Wild Wild Country documentary there is a part where Osho wants to commit suicide with help of his doctor through lethal injection. The attempt is unsucesful but later on he does die at the age of 58 and in the doctor's presence. So we can say it's likely that they actualy did it in the end. Another thing is that as many of you may know in the eastern culture there is a tradition of Mahasamadhi which is basicaly leaving one's body after realization / fulfiling his pourpose on earth/ being no longer interested in life here, whatever you wanna call it. Phenomenon of Mahasamadhi is well documented and there are countles examples. So my questions are: If Osho was so blisful/attained and all that good stuff why would he want to commit suicide at the age of 58 ? And if he decided that it's his time to leave why woudn't he do it trough Mahasamadhi ? I'm sure he was aware of the practice. What do you guys think of it.

@George Fil It's funny someone on LinkeIn reached out to me for some stupid mlm scheme that this Patrick Ben David guy was the head of. She talked about how the company was named people helping people we're trying to get everyone financially free yada yada yada. She wanted me to come all the way to Pasadena from West Los Angeles. Then I knew something was fishy I googled them and saw there terrible yelp review and one yelp review specifically mentioned her name. They are one of those mlm cults that constantly smile in your face while they financially stab you in the back. I think in the future cults like that should end up behind bars but, in a stage orange society it's no wonder that they thrive while victimizing the weak minded to the brink of suicide.

Yes ...and once you're fully convinced that you are awareness, then that knowing/ realization replaces the I am the body/mind thought. I'm Self-realized, but won't claim "enlightenment". Plus, really, who would claim it? The most that could be said is that one understands that their true nature is awareness and they have assimilated this fact and therefore are "liberated from dependence on objects- subtle and gross". I'm still not done assimilating. Sooo, as to your question, why I wasn't afraid. The truth is that I'm a suicide survivor (a decade ago). The ego already went through the ultimate fear, it wanted to be extinguished and it gave up on life. Anyway, I survived and 6 months later when I read Tolle (and others) and started Self inquiry ego liked the fact that maybe it would just disappear for good. Within a year after starting I had my first true awakening and recognized the unreality of the ego. I became Self-realized.

Note: Even if it comes across this way, I am not trying to gain sympathy. My vivid descriptions are as vivid as they are here simply to try and strongly convey the insight I am sharing. Because everyone on here is buzzing about spiral dynamics, I wanted to share a personal story that I found very interesting, which relates directly to spiral dynamics. In junior school, and parts of middle school I was bullied deeply, so bad that I developed pretty much all of my neurosis that I currently have today. My shadow work journey(which I have been doing adamantly for 2 years now, and which has still a long way to go) has purely been solving the issues I developed in junior school alone. I had at the end of high school deeply low self esteem - to the point of wanting to suicide on a weekly basis, a personal identity associated with stupidity, lack of morality, evilness, monstrous, clumsy, fat and ugly. I had strong doses of OCD type experiences of fear of being left by myself with other people I did not know, and a strong resistance to trying to stride for anything good for me in life. I had deep guilt and shame running through my veins on a daily basis. Let me assert again that this all stemmed from at most 3 years of my secondary level of schooling. But the most interesting thing about my memories (and they are vivid and accurate just due to the fact that you never forget traumatic experiences) is how my bullying experiences related to spiral dynamics. I will simply copy and paste a small section of my journal I wrote down 3 years ago (end of year 12 for me) about what I remember of secondary school. I will then comment on this journal from a spiral dynamics perspective. 2.3 Bullying experiences of Secondary School The social aspect was extremely scary and soul crushing. 2.3.1 Year 7: 1st encounter with bullying: 3 week prior I attempted to develop a platonic bond with a student that seemed friendly. During the bonding stages, from my perspective (which in hindsight I now know was inaccurate) we were involved in friendly conversations about gossip about teachers, other students and the content the other student seemed like he was enjoying the intercourse with me and off his own volition would in the mornings sit next to me to speak about further topics. We also played board games together which both of us seemed like we were having fun and enjoying each other's company. We would constantly sit next to each other and make jokes. To me, I felt like I found someone who I could trust to serve me friendly company, and someone who would be worth being loyal to in heated events. 3 weeks later at lunch time I decided to try and be in his company. He told me with a laughing face to leave, back then I didn't really understand most jokes student said or why they were funny, so I just laughed back for politeness and ignored it and continued to join in with whatever he was doing. He then walked off. Being confused but again ignoring it I walked with him, he then told a teacher that I was stalking him and that I was harassing him, weirdly again with a laughing face. The teacher was confused and then told him to put up with my company, but I walked away angry. I was deeply afraid and worried of the teacher that he spoke to of thinking that I was a 'bad person'. Being a bad person elicited deeply shameful, guilty and painful thoughts to me, maybe the most pain I could ever feel, and this person brought them up for me. The next day this person acted normal and attempted to socialize with me. Of course I reacted negatively to this person. This went on for a while and escalated to the point that I had to be moved from the classes that he was in to another set of classes. The teachers thought that I was gifted, so I was moved to a special class that had intellectually 'gifted' people in it. 2.3.2 Year 8: I was moved to this new class afterwards but suffered bullying problems again. During the bullying events I went through, being a lover of science, I noted down certain social phenomena that was unconceivable at the time for further investigation. These notes are from the mac computer you had in 7th grade, inside the folder 'intellectual timecapsule': (picked at random) 2011, may: - people in the group are very bad to me. They took my pencil case threw it in the bin. They took it because the other ones in the group liked it and gave them brownie points for it. I deleted some for sake of shortness of this post and also some are very personal. I kept the relevant ones - "The other people in the group are very selfish. they have no limits. " - "The group is (not sure but seems true) being held together by being selfish. The person who seems the coolest and toughest is the leader. The person who is harder to mess with is the leader. Everyone does what the leader says because they don't want to be messed with." - "They use me to show off how tough they are. When they mess with me and win the group values the bully as being the highest. I am a social status farm" - "In sports class, no group wanted me and told me that I am too dumb and clumsy to be in their group and that I would make them loose." - "Miss had a paper to pass around, and the group leader told me that I should be thankful for him giving me the paper because of how dumb I am" - "I am very scared of miss not liking me. No one likes me" - "my friend who liked me betrayed me to look cool in front of the group. He took my pencil case and threw it in the bin like the others, now the group loves him and he doesn't talk to me anymore" Other things I remember: I would have no group to go to during science class because all the groups would tell me to not enter their group, and when I tried to they would yell at me to go away and push me away. They would do nasty acts purely for the group's satisfaction. Like throw my pencilcase in the bin or melt my ruler with a Bunsen burner One account was when one group member (not me) was being bullied by the group and how they reacted. This member had his bag took off him by the group without him knowing. He asked all of the group members where his bag was and then said ok then if none of you will give me back my bag I'll take tristan's in return. And took my bag when I went to the toilet. This is not how I reacted, but if I did I might have mitigated the problems with the group more effectively. The group would constantly assert dominance by doing micro bullying acts. I noticed that this is how the clique and group maintained itself. Each act of microbullying kept their social status in place. At the end of year 9, I gave up on trying to stop the bullying myself and just (know this is wrong in hindsight) assumed that I was the problem, because I was the only one with the problem. I felt very guilty about being the one that everyone hated. I felt like a moster from a different planet. I felt like I didn't belong. I suffered a lot of pain from thinking I was the bad evil guy. In the end what stopped me was the fear that the teachers would see me as the bad one in all of this mess. Slowly though the bullies seemed to mature and the sorts of comments they made in earlier years were condemned by them in later years. The bullying sorted itself out through maturity, but my traumas are still with me. Commentary of this diary: Back then, when I had these experiences, I just assumed that I was a socially awkward nerd who had these bullying problems as a consequence of being weird and different. While that is slightly true, the bigger reason as to why I went through so much bullying is now very clear to me. I was at a different stage of spiral dynamics then what the other group was at. I was clearly at blue, and they were clearly at red/orange. I'll illustrate my point through examples: How I was blue(from quoting from my journal): "I was deeply afraid and worried of the teacher that he spoke to of thinking that I was a 'bad person'." Blue appealing to authority. striving to be the good guy. "I felt like I found someone who I could trust to serve me friendly company, and someone who would be worth being loyal to in heated events" Blue - being loyal to someone "I felt very guilty about being the one that everyone hated. I felt like a moster from a different planet." blue again -> right vs wrong. The diary (understandably) doesn't talk a lot about me back then (which is like 8 years ago), so I'll speak a bit more about that. I was very obedient to teachers, I loved being the good person. When looking for friends I looked for people I could be loyal to and people who were 'good people' who had morals. I also liked the security of having people I could trust. Having people who were selfish was a big fear to me because I didn't feel secure. Now over on the red/orange side: Pretty much all of the quotes in the May 2011 section. They are all acts of mild red or extreme orange. How about how the group used selfish acts as a way to assert their dominance? At the time of writing (3 years ago) I didn't know about spiral dynamics, but try reading the journal with the value systems in place. It all makes sense as to why I went through so much bullying. I was a blue staged guy in a group or red/orange staged people, and I didn't fit in. My value system was completely different to theirs, and I had absolutely no understanding at all of how to deal with it, because back then understanding social dynamics was totally over my head. And look at how I dealt with the bullying. Did I tell myself "these people are bullies and I shouldn't feel bad about it"? Nope. Did I try and approach them diplomatically about the situation? Nope. What did I do? I did the stereotypical blue move and felt guilty about it and kept all of my guilt inside until I purged them all out again several years later. Why is this important? Bullying is a huge problem in schools right now, and teachers are approaching it from a psychological perspective. But maybe the problem with bullying isn't a psychological problem? Maybe the problem is a sociological one? See maybe spiral dynamics can be used help understand bullying at a deeper level. Maybe America wouldn't have so many shootings if they thought about things from a spiral dynamics perspective? Another interesting thing is that what you will notice is that humans move through the stages as they grow older. By observing how kids interact with other kids in early development, we can analyse and understand how different stages of spiral dynamics interact with each other. Maybe we can use this to understand conflicts between countries and how to rectify them?

Journal Entry #1 Introduction So this is my first Journal Post. I don't really know what I will be sharing, but I hope to discover something about myself through this journal. Responses are more than welcome I could never turn down good advise. Here we go: Life has been pretty insane the past couple months Husband's friend committed suicide His grandfather got sick He started abusing Meth We got into a big fight (things got physical) Almost left him I got into a bad car accident Resolved things with my husband Graduated from college Had to kick my roommate (my sister) out of our apartment for being a mooch One of my friends committed suicide Got into another fight with my husband (nothing physical this time) My husband left for a while Now he's back and things are "okay" Things are starting to move forward with my case (for the accident) And all in the span of just 2 months. Boy, how life can just spiral out of control sometimes. I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) back in high school, which can make it hard to control my feelings or reactions to things. But I feel like I have been getting better at controlling it as I work on my meditation and self inquiry. I have been doing my best to stay very mindful of my situation and all the factors involved. I have been able to feel very grateful and blessed through all of this pain. I still struggle to deal with some parts of what has been going on, but I try to tell myself that there is more than all of this. I can handle it. Some of my family members have said that they think it's weird for me not to be panicked or messed up over everything. Is it? I know that my physical pain will heal eventually, so there is no point to stress that. And as for everything else, time keeps going. I have a life that I want to live, and things I want to be able to see and do. I can't accomplish anything by being stuck in a depression. When I tell them this, they say that "I'm not acting like I care about anything that has happened" but I do care. I can't help what has happened, but I can help what is and will happen. That is my current focus. If it is strange to feel this way, then I guess I accept that. I have seen what being stuck in a depression can do to me, and I won't let that be me anymore, if I can help it. I want to be a strong, smart woman that can push through her worldly troubles and strive for better! Life won't wait for me to make that happen. So I have to work at it now. If this seems weird to my family, so be it.

Sometimes I feel like all these changing or improving the world themes are a mere fool's errand. At best, it can serve as a convenient, fabricated cock and bull story made in your head in order to mobilize yourself, actualize yourself in this world. I mean just while writing this message probably thousands of people all over the world died of hunger, suicide, war, illness etc. along with a heavy heart shattered by tremendous level of suffering. And I am not even counting billions who are suffering psychologically/physically more or less right now. In the end, its all about you. You're not changing shit. Thats your self made story to fool the lazy aspect of yourself. You are only changing you. By praying for the whole world with an open heart, it's you who is changing and becoming more loving, conscious. The world minds its own business. Thats why I said that this world is your training ground. You go to the gym to mold yourself, not to clean and worship the gym

" Meaning is so important that when life loses meaning, suicide commonly ensues. When life loses meaning, we first go into depression; when life becomes sufficiently meaningless we lose it all together. Force has transient goals; when those goals are reached, the emptiness of meaning-lessness remains. Power, on the other hand, motivates us endlessly. If our lives are dedicated, to enhancing the welfare of everyone we contact, our lives can never lose meaning. If the purpose of our life, on the other hand, is financial success, what happens after it's been attained? This is one of the primary causes of depression in middle-aged men and women." David Hawkins on life purpose.

@Leo Gura My aplogies for delayed answer. Shit hit the fan, and I barely could find the time for my meditations. Don't get me wrong Leo. I did not mean to thrash your teachings. I am aware that i have a long way to go, an yes - i am not that kind of person to walk the way on my own. I am here because it was your teachings that made me end up in this rabbit hole. So i don't know how to reconsile that our reality is built from concepts and the fact that it was showned to me by a concept. I was directly aware of all concepts, it wasn't an intelectual conclusion that i had, yet i don't know what can i trust anymore. Meanwhile, i realized that me being uncomfortable with this paradox is a story as well, so i let it go. It is a weid mindfuck now, if i try and put a concept on what i feel - i fundamentally don't trust myself and reality, and i am weirdly chill about it. If there is nothing but story, all i can do is make the best out of it - I guess. After all - unconciouss mind is still the one that pulls strings almost 100% of a time, no matter what. Maybe an unimportant update on my decision. The reality presented itself in a way, that there where no other options left for my subconciousness than a choice A. I'll admit that I got triggered in taking a choice. Now there is a person in a hospital after a suicide attempt. What i whant to thank you for Leo, is that I see that suicide was that persons choice and decision, and not mine. I see my responsibilty for now, and I choose to put past in the past, and continue to self actualize. P.S. Funny though. When I was checking my letter for mistakes, i had a thought - Still!!! How the fuck can i trust the word I am saying!!!

1) there's always a reason for depression, it can be something happening in her life, or some mental framework / belief about life, it could even be some weird chemistry thing for all I know. But there's something, maybe her reasons for depression are because of self-esteem issues, or maybe she believes that every thing that is good about her world (you) is temporary and might be taken away. These are all just guesses, if you care about this you need to communicate with her, figure out what she thinks about all of this on a personal level, and even though that can be an awkward area to go too, if its suicide, its important you go there. 2) for self-esteem issue I recommend this video Otherwise there's a ton of information out there on the internet about self-esteem.

@Shanmugam Check these other 2 (they are more raps than poems but whathever) Might reach the sky https://soundcloud.com/x-x-687663775/might-reach-the-sky Soaring, is this allowed? Sure made myself content Got off the hurtful pills, im not a fiend No, not always the means justify the ends In the crowd im blending but then im showing My authentic self, where I hide behind no mask Or act a certain, nobody's need to ask If its truly me, cuz they know when they see me Just would like to show these kids with depression That its possible for it go to remission And live your life happy ever after But not after death, pay attention to your feet, to your step Learn from your mistakes Never, ever do them again If you a musician, just focus on the pen And I keep going, I keep flowing Showing these teachings that I be knowing Hide behind no blind, no, im not blind I came for what I search to find, maybe online Make it mine, nobody ever touching it again I swear my peeen Be sometimes my only frieeeend But thats ok because in the end Im my only friend And nobody will ever be there like my friend That is me How many people can be their own homies? I had to because otherwise it would be suicide And trust me, I want to be alive Back for the second verse The verse I didnt reharse But what verses do I reharse? None, this is all off the dome Its a written freestyle A freestyle that I wrote Takes me no less than 10 seconds To create a rhyme Sometimes I look for one online Just the rhyming word, not a bar I go hard cuz my avatar is a star Not playing guitar but maybe one day I will drive my car to the bar Have a fun time, in summertime, sometime You can say the more I progress the more Im in my prime So that is everytime -- Mayhem This is my story, this is my soong If you feel it, you cant go wrong Tale from a younging in a european country He was enslaved but wanted to be free Until he found a place that it was meant to be After that his eyes, he couldnt believe them Even if was mayhem It was calm mahyem, now I aaaam Who am I? You and I I and me, forever alone I be Solitude is such a sweet place to be...

My girlfriend has serious emotional problems and has been trying to overcome them for a few years now, going to therapy, meditating, reading, trying different exercises but she feels she is still in the same place, and has lost hope. She often says she wants to be dead, and says nobody understands her, she feels alone and hopeless. She has been hinting she will do something to call the attention of the people around her, so they can see how bad she feels, she has talked about suicide. What should I do?