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Note: Even if it comes across this way, I am not trying to gain sympathy. My vivid descriptions are as vivid as they are here simply to try and strongly convey the insight I am sharing. Because everyone on here is buzzing about spiral dynamics, I wanted to share a personal story that I found very interesting, which relates directly to spiral dynamics. In junior school, and parts of middle school I was bullied deeply, so bad that I developed pretty much all of my neurosis that I currently have today. My shadow work journey(which I have been doing adamantly for 2 years now, and which has still a long way to go) has purely been solving the issues I developed in junior school alone. I had at the end of high school deeply low self esteem - to the point of wanting to suicide on a weekly basis, a personal identity associated with stupidity, lack of morality, evilness, monstrous, clumsy, fat and ugly. I had strong doses of OCD type experiences of fear of being left by myself with other people I did not know, and a strong resistance to trying to stride for anything good for me in life. I had deep guilt and shame running through my veins on a daily basis. Let me assert again that this all stemmed from at most 3 years of my secondary level of schooling. But the most interesting thing about my memories (and they are vivid and accurate just due to the fact that you never forget traumatic experiences) is how my bullying experiences related to spiral dynamics. I will simply copy and paste a small section of my journal I wrote down 3 years ago (end of year 12 for me) about what I remember of secondary school. I will then comment on this journal from a spiral dynamics perspective. 2.3 Bullying experiences of Secondary School The social aspect was extremely scary and soul crushing. 2.3.1 Year 7: 1st encounter with bullying: 3 week prior I attempted to develop a platonic bond with a student that seemed friendly. During the bonding stages, from my perspective (which in hindsight I now know was inaccurate) we were involved in friendly conversations about gossip about teachers, other students and the content the other student seemed like he was enjoying the intercourse with me and off his own volition would in the mornings sit next to me to speak about further topics. We also played board games together which both of us seemed like we were having fun and enjoying each other's company. We would constantly sit next to each other and make jokes. To me, I felt like I found someone who I could trust to serve me friendly company, and someone who would be worth being loyal to in heated events. 3 weeks later at lunch time I decided to try and be in his company. He told me with a laughing face to leave, back then I didn't really understand most jokes student said or why they were funny, so I just laughed back for politeness and ignored it and continued to join in with whatever he was doing. He then walked off. Being confused but again ignoring it I walked with him, he then told a teacher that I was stalking him and that I was harassing him, weirdly again with a laughing face. The teacher was confused and then told him to put up with my company, but I walked away angry. I was deeply afraid and worried of the teacher that he spoke to of thinking that I was a 'bad person'. Being a bad person elicited deeply shameful, guilty and painful thoughts to me, maybe the most pain I could ever feel, and this person brought them up for me. The next day this person acted normal and attempted to socialize with me. Of course I reacted negatively to this person. This went on for a while and escalated to the point that I had to be moved from the classes that he was in to another set of classes. The teachers thought that I was gifted, so I was moved to a special class that had intellectually 'gifted' people in it. 2.3.2 Year 8: I was moved to this new class afterwards but suffered bullying problems again. During the bullying events I went through, being a lover of science, I noted down certain social phenomena that was unconceivable at the time for further investigation. These notes are from the mac computer you had in 7th grade, inside the folder 'intellectual timecapsule': (picked at random) 2011, may: - people in the group are very bad to me. They took my pencil case threw it in the bin. They took it because the other ones in the group liked it and gave them brownie points for it. I deleted some for sake of shortness of this post and also some are very personal. I kept the relevant ones - "The other people in the group are very selfish. they have no limits. " - "The group is (not sure but seems true) being held together by being selfish. The person who seems the coolest and toughest is the leader. The person who is harder to mess with is the leader. Everyone does what the leader says because they don't want to be messed with." - "They use me to show off how tough they are. When they mess with me and win the group values the bully as being the highest. I am a social status farm" - "In sports class, no group wanted me and told me that I am too dumb and clumsy to be in their group and that I would make them loose." - "Miss had a paper to pass around, and the group leader told me that I should be thankful for him giving me the paper because of how dumb I am" - "I am very scared of miss not liking me. No one likes me" - "my friend who liked me betrayed me to look cool in front of the group. He took my pencil case and threw it in the bin like the others, now the group loves him and he doesn't talk to me anymore" Other things I remember: I would have no group to go to during science class because all the groups would tell me to not enter their group, and when I tried to they would yell at me to go away and push me away. They would do nasty acts purely for the group's satisfaction. Like throw my pencilcase in the bin or melt my ruler with a Bunsen burner One account was when one group member (not me) was being bullied by the group and how they reacted. This member had his bag took off him by the group without him knowing. He asked all of the group members where his bag was and then said ok then if none of you will give me back my bag I'll take tristan's in return. And took my bag when I went to the toilet. This is not how I reacted, but if I did I might have mitigated the problems with the group more effectively. The group would constantly assert dominance by doing micro bullying acts. I noticed that this is how the clique and group maintained itself. Each act of microbullying kept their social status in place. At the end of year 9, I gave up on trying to stop the bullying myself and just (know this is wrong in hindsight) assumed that I was the problem, because I was the only one with the problem. I felt very guilty about being the one that everyone hated. I felt like a moster from a different planet. I felt like I didn't belong. I suffered a lot of pain from thinking I was the bad evil guy. In the end what stopped me was the fear that the teachers would see me as the bad one in all of this mess. Slowly though the bullies seemed to mature and the sorts of comments they made in earlier years were condemned by them in later years. The bullying sorted itself out through maturity, but my traumas are still with me. Commentary of this diary: Back then, when I had these experiences, I just assumed that I was a socially awkward nerd who had these bullying problems as a consequence of being weird and different. While that is slightly true, the bigger reason as to why I went through so much bullying is now very clear to me. I was at a different stage of spiral dynamics then what the other group was at. I was clearly at blue, and they were clearly at red/orange. I'll illustrate my point through examples: How I was blue(from quoting from my journal): "I was deeply afraid and worried of the teacher that he spoke to of thinking that I was a 'bad person'." Blue appealing to authority. striving to be the good guy. "I felt like I found someone who I could trust to serve me friendly company, and someone who would be worth being loyal to in heated events" Blue - being loyal to someone "I felt very guilty about being the one that everyone hated. I felt like a moster from a different planet." blue again -> right vs wrong. The diary (understandably) doesn't talk a lot about me back then (which is like 8 years ago), so I'll speak a bit more about that. I was very obedient to teachers, I loved being the good person. When looking for friends I looked for people I could be loyal to and people who were 'good people' who had morals. I also liked the security of having people I could trust. Having people who were selfish was a big fear to me because I didn't feel secure. Now over on the red/orange side: Pretty much all of the quotes in the May 2011 section. They are all acts of mild red or extreme orange. How about how the group used selfish acts as a way to assert their dominance? At the time of writing (3 years ago) I didn't know about spiral dynamics, but try reading the journal with the value systems in place. It all makes sense as to why I went through so much bullying. I was a blue staged guy in a group or red/orange staged people, and I didn't fit in. My value system was completely different to theirs, and I had absolutely no understanding at all of how to deal with it, because back then understanding social dynamics was totally over my head. And look at how I dealt with the bullying. Did I tell myself "these people are bullies and I shouldn't feel bad about it"? Nope. Did I try and approach them diplomatically about the situation? Nope. What did I do? I did the stereotypical blue move and felt guilty about it and kept all of my guilt inside until I purged them all out again several years later. Why is this important? Bullying is a huge problem in schools right now, and teachers are approaching it from a psychological perspective. But maybe the problem with bullying isn't a psychological problem? Maybe the problem is a sociological one? See maybe spiral dynamics can be used help understand bullying at a deeper level. Maybe America wouldn't have so many shootings if they thought about things from a spiral dynamics perspective? Another interesting thing is that what you will notice is that humans move through the stages as they grow older. By observing how kids interact with other kids in early development, we can analyse and understand how different stages of spiral dynamics interact with each other. Maybe we can use this to understand conflicts between countries and how to rectify them?

Yes ...and once you're fully convinced that you are awareness, then that knowing/ realization replaces the I am the body/mind thought. I'm Self-realized, but won't claim "enlightenment". Plus, really, who would claim it? The most that could be said is that one understands that their true nature is awareness and they have assimilated this fact and therefore are "liberated from dependence on objects- subtle and gross". I'm still not done assimilating. Sooo, as to your question, why I wasn't afraid. The truth is that I'm a suicide survivor (a decade ago). The ego already went through the ultimate fear, it wanted to be extinguished and it gave up on life. Anyway, I survived and 6 months later when I read Tolle (and others) and started Self inquiry ego liked the fact that maybe it would just disappear for good. Within a year after starting I had my first true awakening and recognized the unreality of the ego. I became Self-realized.

Sometimes I feel like all these changing or improving the world themes are a mere fool's errand. At best, it can serve as a convenient, fabricated cock and bull story made in your head in order to mobilize yourself, actualize yourself in this world. I mean just while writing this message probably thousands of people all over the world died of hunger, suicide, war, illness etc. along with a heavy heart shattered by tremendous level of suffering. And I am not even counting billions who are suffering psychologically/physically more or less right now. In the end, its all about you. You're not changing shit. Thats your self made story to fool the lazy aspect of yourself. You are only changing you. By praying for the whole world with an open heart, it's you who is changing and becoming more loving, conscious. The world minds its own business. Thats why I said that this world is your training ground. You go to the gym to mold yourself, not to clean and worship the gym

@Leo Gura My aplogies for delayed answer. Shit hit the fan, and I barely could find the time for my meditations. Don't get me wrong Leo. I did not mean to thrash your teachings. I am aware that i have a long way to go, an yes - i am not that kind of person to walk the way on my own. I am here because it was your teachings that made me end up in this rabbit hole. So i don't know how to reconsile that our reality is built from concepts and the fact that it was showned to me by a concept. I was directly aware of all concepts, it wasn't an intelectual conclusion that i had, yet i don't know what can i trust anymore. Meanwhile, i realized that me being uncomfortable with this paradox is a story as well, so i let it go. It is a weid mindfuck now, if i try and put a concept on what i feel - i fundamentally don't trust myself and reality, and i am weirdly chill about it. If there is nothing but story, all i can do is make the best out of it - I guess. After all - unconciouss mind is still the one that pulls strings almost 100% of a time, no matter what. Maybe an unimportant update on my decision. The reality presented itself in a way, that there where no other options left for my subconciousness than a choice A. I'll admit that I got triggered in taking a choice. Now there is a person in a hospital after a suicide attempt. What i whant to thank you for Leo, is that I see that suicide was that persons choice and decision, and not mine. I see my responsibilty for now, and I choose to put past in the past, and continue to self actualize. P.S. Funny though. When I was checking my letter for mistakes, i had a thought - Still!!! How the fuck can i trust the word I am saying!!!

1) there's always a reason for depression, it can be something happening in her life, or some mental framework / belief about life, it could even be some weird chemistry thing for all I know. But there's something, maybe her reasons for depression are because of self-esteem issues, or maybe she believes that every thing that is good about her world (you) is temporary and might be taken away. These are all just guesses, if you care about this you need to communicate with her, figure out what she thinks about all of this on a personal level, and even though that can be an awkward area to go too, if its suicide, its important you go there. 2) for self-esteem issue I recommend this video Otherwise there's a ton of information out there on the internet about self-esteem.

@Shanmugam Check these other 2 (they are more raps than poems but whathever) Might reach the sky https://soundcloud.com/x-x-687663775/might-reach-the-sky Soaring, is this allowed? Sure made myself content Got off the hurtful pills, im not a fiend No, not always the means justify the ends In the crowd im blending but then im showing My authentic self, where I hide behind no mask Or act a certain, nobody's need to ask If its truly me, cuz they know when they see me Just would like to show these kids with depression That its possible for it go to remission And live your life happy ever after But not after death, pay attention to your feet, to your step Learn from your mistakes Never, ever do them again If you a musician, just focus on the pen And I keep going, I keep flowing Showing these teachings that I be knowing Hide behind no blind, no, im not blind I came for what I search to find, maybe online Make it mine, nobody ever touching it again I swear my peeen Be sometimes my only frieeeend But thats ok because in the end Im my only friend And nobody will ever be there like my friend That is me How many people can be their own homies? I had to because otherwise it would be suicide And trust me, I want to be alive Back for the second verse The verse I didnt reharse But what verses do I reharse? None, this is all off the dome Its a written freestyle A freestyle that I wrote Takes me no less than 10 seconds To create a rhyme Sometimes I look for one online Just the rhyming word, not a bar I go hard cuz my avatar is a star Not playing guitar but maybe one day I will drive my car to the bar Have a fun time, in summertime, sometime You can say the more I progress the more Im in my prime So that is everytime -- Mayhem This is my story, this is my soong If you feel it, you cant go wrong Tale from a younging in a european country He was enslaved but wanted to be free Until he found a place that it was meant to be After that his eyes, he couldnt believe them Even if was mayhem It was calm mahyem, now I aaaam Who am I? You and I I and me, forever alone I be Solitude is such a sweet place to be...

According to what I've learned, Jesus isn't going to come back and be like "yo what's up, I'm back you guys" lol TRUE Christians wouldn't crucify anyone that says they are the Lord returned. Many people have proclaimed this on Social media and YouTube and not had much done to them other than put downs in comment boxes. I met a homeless guy who said he was Jesus returned and my response to him was giving him one of our precooked lunches and I told him "Well, then may God continue to bless you". That guy may have been crazy, but it's not my place to "crucify" him for his delusions. I really don't think you read my posts all the way through if you are suggesting that I need to be open lol I stated over and over that I am very open to a lot. I know Jesus is always with me and the Holy Spirit guides me. My only goal here was to clear up some very common misconceptions and generalizations about the Christian Faith, nothing else. The way you respond seems to suggest your only goal is to shatter my beliefs with random instances in history where "Christians" were far from their best. That's like me saying all Muslims are Terrorists because one Muslim religious figure mentioned once in History that a "Jihad" was necessary to cleanse the Earth. It's ridiculous. Most Muslims I know are totally amazing and don't think that they should kill me just because I don't follow their beliefs. Generalization is not a fact, it's just a way of throwing a group of people into a category because it's easier than connecting and learning about that part of someones life. I have met some awful "Christians" in my life, but that doesn't mean that we are all like that. I know I'm not like that. My job is to only live my life according to His commandments and to be a living example of what a relationship with Christ looks like and to share that with the world around me. I do believe I am doing my part in that. Every hardship I have faced in my life (car accident, loss of a close friend to suicide-all happened as little as a month ago) has been a moment for me to either be an example, or to be just another hypocrite. I feel so blessed to be where I am and to have what I have in my life, even the hardships. I am strong because the Lord strengthens me to face each day and to take every moment in, knowing that each breath is a gift from Him. I really don't know what else I can say man. This post is literally just a repeat of my other posts and I don't think more repetition is helping either of us. You can think what you want, that's your right. But just try to avoid classifying groups of people so quickly when you have't taken the time to meet the individuals. Not all Christians are the same, same with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and even the same with SelfActualizers. Not everyone on here agrees with Leo, but we all still talk and learn from each other. That's how beliefs work.

"There's what's called a lower death drive and an upper death drive. The lower death drive is when the ego hates itself so much it wants to put itself out of its suffering through suicide. (Not so good) The upper death drive is when the ego is wise enough to realize that it's an illusion, and wants to end it's suffering through surrender to truth. (Very good)." So, this is exactly what I have been experiencing, although, and what's always been strange, is, that I have never wanted to die intentionally. It just occured over one week: this have-to-die-feeling. Since then, I've been trying to get around it, always surrendered when the suicidal feelings occured. Because I have never wanted to kill myself, I always ended up in my "higher self" which didn't prevent the suicidal feelings to occur over and over again. Obviously this suicidal part is there for a reason, the ego wants to tell me: My son, heal me, raise your awareness and realize that I am an illusion. I somehow feel like, there is no "constant I" in me, just some thought based "I's" that are constantly deconstructed, so I like exploring and experimenting with these suicidal feelings. I think a rise in awareness will show me my true self because the other one is automatically revealed as illusion, isn't it? Just need some guidance, because it is a pretty hard awakening for me. I just keep surrendering all the time, I feel like other people who didn't know about spirituality just would have already killed themselves if they'd been in my shoes, as harsh as it sounds...

Forget about the materialistic view that matter is the fundemental reality. Physics says that everything material is not really solid matter, only energy is real. But my true problem with materialism is that it destroys the human spirit. To Maslow, the highest need is the spiritual, the desire for self-actualization. But as mother Therese observed while being in the United States, the people are impoverished in spirit. I have been the western world myself and I can see that spirituality and faith is low. That's because, if only matter is real, then material possessions are the only reasonable foundation for happines and a good life. The truth is the opposite, materialism leads at best to crime, suicide, disease, and other problems. Spiritually, it keeps you primitive and locked. Science needs to do more research on consiousness as they will find out that it's all there is, if it is even possible to scientifically know that. Most importantly, they need to tell the world that matter is in fact unreal.

@Slade well if it wasn't for personal development I would still have severe depression/anxiety and would have maybe commit suicide. I retain all of my addictions though, but I know my ego is starting to die from meditating 50 mins plus daily now. Starting to feel more grounded in the present moment. From meditation, I feel I've learnt that self improvement can paradoxically be hindered by your desire to improve yourself. I'll be meditating, and I'll think "why isn't my meditation making me feel better? Why can't I detach from my thoughts? ". But if I let go of my want to feel better and let go of my want to "get something" out of meditation, I feel better and I'm detached from my thoughts. By getting out of your own way, your mind and body will automatically take the correct actions you need to improve yourself. We are always in a state of anxiety because our egos are under the illusion that our external circumstances (job performance,sexual relationships, family, friendships and etc) are inherently important, when they are not. Once you let go of clinging to external circumstances, your external circumstances improve. And I feel I'm starting to learn that.

When I had my most powerful samahdi / no self experience it was full of energy I dissolved and lost sense of body and reality ceased to exist and all I could feel was energy, it actually felt like dark matter energy, and that I was connected to it. Obviously my mind is creating concepts to explain it but whatever it was it was out if this world. It was so different to other no self experience bcuz it was full of energy, literally the energy which creates my whole existence. And I dont do any drugs or substances. I have not entered that place again since now I desire to go there and you are not allowed there you must be completely dead, I had to commit mental suicide for it during that sit. But Holy crap if you could enter that place whenever you wanted you hit a infinite gold mine. Also it did not lead to enlightenment this wasn't about becoming aware of the screen permanently, this was more like going deep into the core and seeing all the zeros and ones 1010101001010101 that create what we call reality (just as an analogy).

I realize what I'm about to write can be pretty alarming. Many of you are probably going to tell me I should stay away from psychedelics, but hear me out. Even though a lot of it was very dark, and potentially dangerous; I learned so much about myself from this trip. I really feel like I have direction now in my life. I'm not saying I intend to do any psychedelics in the near future, but I haven't ruled them out entirely. At 6:15 I made tea with 3.5 grams of mushrooms. This was my third time doing them, the first two times I took 2 grams and it was very enjoyable. At the 15 minute mark I was already starting to feel it coming on. I don't even know when it started at full force, but it felt like there was a storm going on in my mind. A little detail that's kind of important - I have Chostocondritis, which causes chest/rib/back pain sometimes. Usually it's just a minor inconvenience, and not that big of a deal, but during the trip the feeling was amplified by 900,000x. I couldn't get comfortable, and I remember walking up and down the stairs in my house laying/sitting down in different places and positions. At the peak of my trip I was laying in bed, and my mind was extremely restless and loud. I was hyper focused on the feeling happening in my body. I couldn't tell the difference between things happening in my head, and things happening outside of my head. This is when it got really dark. I actually thought about suicide. I was reaching for some way to get out of the experience, some way to avoid facing what was happening. I've NEVER considered, or thought about suicide in my life. This wasn't like some negative thought pattern that was making me feel bad about my life; it was purely crazy visuals, and uncomfortable physical sensations. I thought about how it would be over, and peaceful. I actually called the suicide hotline briefly, but hung up. During this whole thing, I had a little voice in the back of my head reassuring me that it would not last for ever, and that I would look back and be glad I didn't do anything. This was the most disturbing part of the trip, I can't believe I actually thought about suicide like this. When I woke up today, this was the hardest thing to deal with. The second crazy thing that happened is I felt like all my vulnerabilities were out in the open. Like everyone I have in my social web that I interact with was notified of all my insecurities and fears. It wasn't just the people I knew though; it was my neighbors, it was the people at the park across the street, It was the people in the cars going by outside, I felt totally exposed. After having to face this for a while, I remember sitting up in my bed feeling like I had schizophrenia. I was mumbling random shit to myself, making weird faces, and my visual field felt like it was being moved to different snapshots around the room. Eventually it took a 180, and every time I would see a new snap shot a little bit of pressure was alleviated. Each snapshot made me careless and less about what people thought of me. It felt amazing. At about the 5 hour mark, I was almost back down to base level; I was filled with dread. I thought that I had just ruined my life, that now I was going to have post traumatic stress disorder. I then ate 25 lbs of food and went to bed immediately. When I woke up today, I was doing what ever I could to avoid looking at what had happened. After a couple hours I decided to face it, and broke out my journal. I've never used one, but today I learned how freaking valuable they are. I wrote out every detail I could remember about the experience. I then got out a separate piece of paper and jotted down the things that bothered me the most. I remembered that mushrooms could reflect your subconscious mind back at you, and that it can bring your deepest fears and expose you to them. I also remember hearing that the best way to make it through a bad trip is to not fight what is happening, and to surrender yourself fully to the experience. After dissecting the things that were the most troubling I came to a few conclusions: I always run and avoid uncomfortable experiences, which includes pretty much every social situation. This has been the case most of my life. When I had suicide going through my head, it wasn't because I felt hopeless or depressed, it was because I was so desperate to get away from something that was uncomfortable. I now have a very strong determination to look my fears in the face, and not run away. I realized that the only way for me to break out of this social anxiety is to surrender to vulnerability. Welcome it, and get used to it. And that eventually my comfort level around people will increase. I've always had a small part of me that thought I was actually insane. It's not something that I consciously think about, but the mushrooms made that glaringly obvious. I'm not entirely sure what I can learn from this yet, but at least i'm now aware of this underlying fear. It showed me the importance of taking care of my body. I don't eat terrible food, but I know I can do better. More vegetables, more water, better sleep, exercise. I feel this need to take care of future me, and be more understanding and compassionate to past me. It really made me appreciate my life and my health. I'm so happy to be alive. I won't be tripping for a while, but I haven't eliminated the possibility. I really believe there is more to learn from psychedelics, I don't want one bad experience to turn me off of them completely. I did some stuff to prepare like meditation, cleaned, cut out negative stimulation for a few days beforehand and wrote some stuff for myself that would help in case of a bad trip, but I guess it wasn't enough. If I decide to do them again I'm going to go all out, every possible safeguard I can find. And the most important thing would be to surrender to the experience, because me not accepting what was happening made it so much worse. Also my writing ability isn't the best, but I tried.

i had experienced suicide thoughts on my trip, it happends because your awarness get bigger and you understand how unimportant you are in the world , you always think that you are the best and important but the reality is that u are nothing. if you are nothing you think that you are worthless and it is better to kill yourself because of social norms. at least it happened for me because of that reason... you are just dealing with reality, nothing bad happened. it is actualy you key to develop yourself

I was a different person before. I'm a different person today. Maybe I've become more loving with time. We are all equal whatevr religion, race, culture, social status we belong to. We don't decide how we are born. We don't control in what situations we are born into. Therefore it doesn't make sense. I mean nothing makes sense at all. Everything is out of order and logic. In the past few days I've realized that family is complete bs. There's nothing like family. Family is shit. It's an illusion created in the mind that there are people who care about you but it's a false concept.. Nobody really cares. We're just individuals. We're entities trying to live through life. Life is bs too because there is no real meaning to it in a rat race world. This life is brutal. You're forced to make money and only money is considered important in this world. There is no value to friendships. There is no value for bonds or family. Only money has become God. It's sad that humanity has come to this. You will try to figure out your way through this life but there is no way because you are born to lose. This is not negativity but a fact. Acceptance is important. The system is designed to bring you down. Not to bring you up. Millions of people commit suicide every year because they can't cope with the struggle that this stupid evil world has created. This rat race which we are born into just to be wasted. There's no purpose. I've been having these disconnected thoughts since morning. I've been questioning myself "what really is life". Why is it so tough. Why is life so hard. Sometimes unbearable. This world is an impossible maze. And people lack empathy. There are major problems that have plagued humanity and they need to be resolved One is money. Money has become the new God in our times. It's impossible to live a decent life without money. Money makes people do wrong things. Therefore money is evil. Money needs to be taken out or at least the disparity needs to be reduced and people need to be given assistance and there should be a cap on how much money people can have and a minimum wage they will always get no matter what. Nobody should have to be deprived of a good life just because they don't have money. That's not fair at all. Money needs to be less important than life. Life needs to be valued. Too many lives lost everyday just because money is more important than life. Absence of God. I think this is another problem. The absence of God in people's lives will cause more chaos, disorder and destruction. In a Godless world, there is no morality and people act cheap. Lack of empathy and love : there is no real love in this world and no empathy for each other. A non cohesive society is ultimately causes its own extinction. The social fabric should be of love and empathy. Family is a shit show.. We've been trained to believe since childhood that family is everything but it's not true especially if it's a bad family. When family members are selfish, life becomes hell. The family unit needs to be broken down and people need to live alone in hippie communities Imbalance. The population of the worldbis just too much almost out of control. Too many people and too few resources to feed the people. This will automatically cause chaos at a very fast rate. It will throw the system out of balance. People will get hostile to each other in a race to win a good life for themselves and it will become unsustainable at some point. Everyone will have to pay the price ultimately. More the population more is the suffering. The earth can't handle so much and so many. So lack of balance will become an overwhelming problem in the future. It will be a big drain and a burden on the resources. The only good thing is unfortunately companies will make tons of profit. Population is good for capitalism to keep making profits but not good for the life of the average man because everything gets more expensive and the demand for resources is huge and the supply of people is too much and so there is no value for their life. People become like puppets and circus animals only to be used and thrown out because there is always someone to replace them. Health. The global burden of disease is rising. Too many health problems because of too much stress. Our bodies are not equipped to handle so much stress. Our bodies wear out in time but challenges of life don't stop with time. Sometimes we tend to take more responsibilities than we can handle. This is a recipe for disaster. The global health is on the decline. Lifestyle disorders have gone out of control. Too many people with diseases. Depression is on the rise. Mental health problems have become a crisis. Therapy and counseling is very expensive. At this rate, we're headed towards a massive health crisis on a scale that must have never been seen before by the medical community. It will surely make the doctors rich very quick. But this has dangerous consequences. Loss of too many people. Fragile relationships Relationships are no longer based on commitment and care and love but power, money, status and politics. The person who is more powerful is in more demand. Relationships have lost the depth and strength. The have become fragile. People want each other only for help and they want to forget.

I think it is impossible to achieve the completely selfless state as long as You are a live, in some cases there are benefits of dealing with life from a self perspective ( Not selfish ), and in the other cases there are benefits of dealing with life from a selfless perspective, but it is impossible to be completely selfless in life, ( I am not encouraging anyone to kill Himself or Herself, Do not commit suicide ) Warning, because even when You are using language You are saying Me, He, She, My, Her, His ..... and these about self, So You can not even think, Talk or write without using self. I think the right way to live is a combination of being self in some cases and selfless in other cases, and that will be beneficial for Yourself, and for everything around You. I think if You are looking to be completely selfless in life, You are wasting Your life, because You are looking to achieve something that unachievable, ( I am not encouraging anyone to kill Himself or Herself, Do not commit suicide ) Warning,

I think it is impossible to achieve the completely selfless state as long as You are a live, in some cases there are benefits of dealing with life from a self perspective ( Not selfish ), and in the other cases there are benefits of dealing with life from a selfless perspective, but it is impossible to be completely selfless in life, ( I am not encouraging anyone to kill Himself or Herself, Do not commit suicide ) Warning, because even when You are using language You are saying Me, He, She, My, Her, His ..... and these about self, So You can not even think, Talk or write without using self. I think the right way to live is a combination of being self in some cases and selfless in other cases, and that will be beneficial for Yourself, and for everything around You. I think if You are looking to be completely selfless in life, You are wasting Your life, because You are looking to achieve something that unachievable, ( I am not encouraging anyone to kill Himself or Herself, Do not commit suicide ) Warning,

In Leos latest video on consciousness he says that consciousness has to be completely empty without any qualities/attributes. Because if consciousness was big lets say, if 'big' was a fundamental quality or attribute, then it couldn't take the form of the opposite attribute, 'small' that is. So consciousness is completely empty, without any qualities or attributes, therefore it is NOTHING. But it is not nothing in a conventional mening in a way that it doesn't exist, because it does exist! And here comes my question, isn't 'existence' a quality in itself? If so, then consciousness is nothingness with ONE quality/attribute, namely the attribute that it exist So, consciousness can't take the opposite form to that attribute, it can't be non existing. And if consciousness can't cease to exist, is it really totally free and infinite then?? We as humans are free to cease to exist(suicide), the same can't be said for consciousness, it lacks that freedom, since consciousness with its only attribute is what is prior to everything and something fundamental that never change, IT IS, and can never turn itself into non existence? Hence no ultimate freedom?

@zoey101 I am SOOO sorry for you! We are here for you Your friend's suicide isn't your fault neither are the reactions of your husband. Weigh your options. What is the best for you and your daughter? Give yourself the love no one could ever give to you. Stay strong! ?

So I had an existential crisis recently, I seriously considered suicide. But then I was like hey wait a second the reason I'm suicidal is because I have a shit life and no point in life. And whenever I'm socialising the deppression just melts away. So I'm doing that. And I want to be a social worker after sixth form and uni, so I can make a positive impact on the world. Especially with homelessness as this affected me and my mum. However, I'm thinking that why should I care about people and animals and the state of the world if it's all meaningless anyway and really what I'm after is satisfaction from life? It is all perfect no matter what happens as I've seen from my kensho experiences. So do I have to drop empathy and success? I mean fuckign hell. Also what is the key to being happy? What is it that really satisfies people? i know that enlightened people are really happy so why should I be a social worker if I can be a monk? Isn't my happiness the most important thing in reality? ( my reality which is the only one I have access to? ) So should I drop everything and just be a monk so I can be blissed out all the fucking time lol? Also another thing why do I need to start a family or socialise, eat or do drugs, or socialise or any material pleasure if enlightenment is the ultimate satisfaction? Wouldn't it be wise to put all my efforts into enlightenment?

"Substantiated in the form of video and eye-witness testimonies: Physical assault in the form of kicking or slapping Non-consensual administration of additional psychedelics during sessions Unexpectedly electrically shocking participants into a standing position Misogynistic bullying in an attempt to coerce participants into accepting additional doses of 5-MeO Pouring water down the nose or throat of otherwise unconscious participants Unexpectedly blocking the airways of participants for over 15 seconds. Unsubstantiated rumors or accusations: Unsolicited or inappropriate physical contact while under the influence (most reports are of kissing and touching) Involved in the death of at least three individuals during sessions directed and lead by Octavio. Two elderly gentlemen who died officially of heart complications, and one 26-year-old woman Ana Patricia Arredondo whose body wasn't recovered until six days of search and rescue. Severe psychological trauma from sessions which result in long-term depression and suicide." http://psillyrabbits.com/podcastblog-archives-1/2018/5/27/exploring-psychedelics-2018-reviewing-zealotry-and-apologetics-within-the-field-of-psychedelics-2lyt5

My husband just stopped by for a little... He was still pretty upset about the whole thing... I tried to beg him to just drop it and please be with me... I told him I was scared to be alone right now... He stopped and held me for a little, but then he wanted to have sex and I told him I really didn't want to right now.. that I just wanted to lay there for a little and he got a little agressive... He tried to say that it was because I was thinking of my friend... I told him it wasn't that but he started to get mad so I just did it.... I don't know what happened... I wasn't thinking about anything but I got overwhelmed and started to cry in the middle of it and he got so pissed... He started to yell that "he knew I was thinking about my friend" but I wasn't.. it just happened.... He kept calling me a liar... I yelled that he was being so selfish and ridiculous... I told him that I supported him wholeheartedly when his friend committed suicide and when his grandfather was dying but that he can't get over himself long enough to see that I'm fucking hurting right now.. that I'm scared right now... He smacked me on the cheek.... He yelled that I had no right to bring that shit up because it wasn't the same.... He said the difference was that he didn't fuck his friend... I stayed where I was as he left the room... He was going through shit and started to walk out with a box... I asked him what he was going to do and he said that he thinks we need some time a part from each other.... The box was full of knives and shit and I asked him what the hell that was for... He just said it's because he doesn't trust me not to do something stupid... And then he just left... I didn't do anything... But everything is falling a part.... I don't understand why this is happening.... Why is my husband being so stubborn..? I've never done anything to make him think I would cheat on him... He's just blowing this all up...

If I spent thousands of hours and maybe decades to finally completely kill myself / Ego / sense of self and separateness, and realize limitless infinity / God. In that ultimate moment of killing off the very last bit I'm holding onto, is it possible for my body to die too at that crucial moment? I guess that fear of actually killing my body (in this case, accidental suicide), would be that last fear block that would keep me from going into complete enlightenment. With this block, I'd always be at 99%, never able to get past that last percent. And I know that if my body did die, it wouldn't matter. I'd still be consciousness, without a Self, which is what enlightenment is. So no difference. I'm more concerned with not being able to enjoy being enlightened while "I'm' this life, because that fear block of dying, whether rational or not, is keeping me from achieving this. And of course as I progress and achieve higher consciousness, my fears will dissipate as well. So yeah, do you think it's medically possible for the physical body to die, when the Self dies? Has this ever happen? And if it did, how would we know? Have others had this fear and got over it? If so, how?

I am sorry you had to go through this love, but in all honesty, Its not your fault, so please don't cause any more suffering on yourself than already has, as of right now that is the last thing your friend wants. He seemed to have his own demons to deal with and that was his way of choice to deal with them. I don't believe this had much to do with you at all because if it did, it most probably wouldn't of happened the way it did. I know it seems paradoxical but that's just how things seem to be in this universe. I had similar situations in my younger days, and recently a friend lost her father in a similar situation which i have been helping for some time now and all you have to understand right now is that All is forgiven and All is well and its no longer in the present. He now is with his higher-self(so to speak) and has the enlightened perspective(The perspective and beingness we all try so hard to reach or maintain) to make sense of all his life till that point and that he is completely free from any possible suffering as of right now. Sometimes souls come for short periods only to learn and experience something needed in a particulate body/lifestyle then they have to go and live another life to learn something else because the current life no longer has the possibility for the next lesson. Suicide is extremely tricky but i don't believe it can be done unless both the soul and the higher self agree and in that case we couldn't of done anything about it even if we tried. Souls come and go, but their energy is eternal. All you can do now is appreciate, be grateful and trust the process of life for a greater divine plan that's in order as hard as it seems. Its really the only way to make peace with it and go by it to avoid further suffering for yourself and others. If you need anything feel free to PM me, i will do my best to share my wisdom.

Oh I don't know, you might be, you should put a lot of enquiry and awareness on it, you did say Rumi's words were "choking" you. You might be afraid of non-existence which is the same as death. This is the very thing that leo means when you need to commit suicide. @Etagnwo @Anna1 Anna I think this guy likes you with the amount of white knighting, you guys should take this business to PMs, There is nothing great or good about using the excuse "I am real and not fake" and proceeding to be obnoxious , rude, violent, etc. That's the excuse most shitty celebs are using these days to get away with all bad behavior.

When you opened your eyes on the world for the first time as a child; how brilliant the colors were; what a jewel the sun was; what marvel the stars; how incredibly alive the trees were... And to love again and again, and have people to whom we are deeply attached go to sleep and never wake up... and the laughter echoes only in one's mind... but then the echo goes... the memory, the traces are all gone. All your efforts, all your acheivements, all your attainments turning into dust, nothingness... what is the feeling? what happens to you? The idea of God as the potter, the architect of the universe, it makes you feel that life is, after all, important, that there is someone who cares. It has meaning, it has sense, and you are valuable in the eyes of the father. But after a while it got embarrassing, the superstition, the myth, the absolutely unfounded idea... why does anybody believe that? So you become an atheist, and then you feel terrible after that because you got rid of God... but that means you got rid of yourself, you're just nothing but a machine... And your idea that you're a machine is just a machine too... (a machine in the system)... So if you think that that's the way things are, you feel hostile to the world. You feel that the world is a neurological trap into which you somehow got caught... trapped... You run from the maternity ward to the crematorium and that's it... that's it... So if you're a smart kid you commit suicide. Now I want to propose another idea all together... The real you, is not a puppet which life pushes around. The real you, the real deep down you, is the whole universe. You cannot confine yourself to what happens inside the skin. Your skin doesn't separate you from the world, it's a bridge. But just as a magnet polarizes its-self in north and south but its all one magnet, so experience polarizes itself as "Self" and "Other", but it's all one. What you call the "External world" is as much YOU as your own body. Most people think that when they open they're eyes and look around that what they are seeing is outside... it seems, doesn't it, that you are behind your eyes. We haven't realized that life and death, black and white, good and evil, being and non-being, come from the same center. When you look for your own particularized center of being which is separate from everything else, you wont be able to find it. The only way you'll know it isn't there is if you look hard enough, to find out that it isn't there. It isn't there at all, there isn't a separate you. There are, in physical reality, no such things as separate events. People can't be talked out of illusions. If a person believes that the earth is flat, you can't talk him out of that, he knows that it's flat. He'll go down to the window and see that its obvious, it looks flat. So the only way to convince him that it isn't is to say, "Well let's go and find the edge".