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I wouldn't be so sure they are the same. Sure in the Totality of ALL, everything is the same, but the experience of each of those, its very very different, and thats part of the fun and beauty of those and all experiences. "on-duality - surrender - enlightenment - presence - being - god - nothingness - love - no-self - zen - tao - no-mind" Sure there is and will be similarity and overlap, but some can be so radically different, you will question deeply in your soul if you were mistaken about what you thought you knew or if you were deluding yourself, or just what the fuck.... and then again perhaps not

@Samuel Garcia moving on to the next step.. The definition of a "thing" is infinity. Thing =infinity. Infinite means non-finite=non definitive=unknown =no thing. Meaning that It's undefined. You can't define a thing at a fundamental level. I don't mean giving superficial labels.. I mean going to the existential core of what things are.. What is this present moment that you call reality? Obviously it is a "thing" right? But what Is a thing? You can't actually "say" what that is because all words are defined in terms of each other and they give you circular definitions that don't explain anything. Why is there something? Because there is awareness of something.. And why there is awareness of something? Because there is something!! You see the circulation. You already assume that there is something before actually investigating the question. And when you investigate it enough you will see the circulation . The paradox.. The self-reference proplem. You can't prove all the premises of a logical structure from within that logical structure.. You have to go meta at some point. For example how do you know that you are aware? You actually cannot prove to yourself that you are aware because that will lead to self - reference proplem and infinite regression.. "I'm aware that I'm aware and I'm aware that I'm aware that I'm aware and I'm aware that I'm aware that I'm aware that I'm aware... To infinity". It's not something that can be proved rationally that you are aware.. It's a first hand experience and not a matter of proof. Why is reality nothing? First of all it's not nothing as in zero or blankness and Leo said that clearly in the video. Nothingness is the quality of emptiness.. All these forms that you see around you are inherently empty.. Always changing and morphing and shifting.. There is no fixed reality.. It's just a Flux. Reality is a shape shifter not a static thing.. And that's why it is not a "thing" but rather a No-thing constantly shifting from one "thing" to another "thing". Look at this GIF.. Notice that that's not a "thing".. You can't give it any identity.. You can't say what that thing is.. And that's like all of reality.. It's nothing because you can't say what that thing is or give it any fixed identity because it has none.

Absolute Love is formless. It's Nothingness. So long as you are experiencing existence as a limited form, you have to be involved in the survival game. Now you can survive consciously or unconsciously. But, it doesn't matter whether you choose conscious or unconscious survival, it always comes at a cost.

@Someone here @Someone here This is not about concepts. Deep sleep is an experience we all have. The waking state is the experience we are having now. I am saying there is a clear distinction of the nothingness of deep sleep and the something of the experience of waking life, as we look at this screen. Nothing and something is not the same in this instance. I'm thinking it is better think of ''finite'' and infinite'' rather than something and nothing. Nothing it better attributed to infinity because it nothing is undefined. If infinite has any ''something'' to it as some religions define God, it would not be God, the absolute. To know the world, we have to overlook the infinity/nothing that is here. But that infinity is absolute, and always remains. Self inquiry is a practice which points to the absolute.

100 ➗100 = 1 100 ➗10 = 10 100 ➗ 1 = 100 100 ➗0.1 = 1000 100 ➗0 = Infinity 100 ➗Infinity = 0 Infinity = 0 Nothingness = Everythingness

Nothingness might be real but we can never prove it.

@Nak Khid It's like you're trying to be dense on purpose. The reason you don't get it is because your mind is closed and you are attached to your own position. Drop it and have a genuine desire to understand what was said. Stop arguing. You are clueless about this stuff. Any idea you have of Nothingness is wrong.

Concentration? Daily: 1 hour concentration on Metronome 1 hour concentration on repeating some artificial word in your mind like "Bam" 1 hour concentration on emptiness/nothingness 1 hour of concentrating on Letting Go of thoughts that steal your attention But after many years of doing concentration practice - I find it useless... I still have shitloads of useless thoughts throughout a day + my suffering has actually increased after 5 years of consciousness work + I am in the dark night of the soul + concentration techniques caused Dissociation disorder for me.

Being = non-symbolic state of consciousness. It's not strictly a prerequisite but it sure helps. With a psychedelic you can be conscious of Nothingness while also thinking and using the mind. But sober, it helps to silence the mind in order the realize Nothingness. Although later you will realize that mind itself is Nothingness, and so having thoughts is not really any different than Being or Nothingness. But this is an advanced stage one has to reach through lots of awakenings.

For me the state of non-symbolic consciousness is when all duality is removed, and the only proper descriptor for everything becomes nothing. Is a state of Being a prerequisite for experiencing nothingness? All of these different concepts I've learned have suddenly intertwined.

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I believe what he's pointing to is the importance of clearly seeing what you are NOT as a prerequisite to clearly seeing what you are... which is the ultimate condition of nothingness.

Yes, I am interested in metaphysics and spiritual work, which is why I am here, asking questions. I am a human being, made of body, heart, mind and spirit. I don't believe spiritual work works by ignoring the emotional, physical and mental aspects of our being. The whole "nothing exists" just seems like an escape hatch. If we are God, and here to have a human experience, why is it that when someone asks a practical, human question, some run away into the land of nothingness? How does that help have a human experience?

Expectations are results of the ego. Which is an illusion. Thats why nothingness hurts you or ego.

Yes. Because nothing is simultaneously infinite. Therefore nothing is absolute. Thats what enlightenment is. Infinite nothingness, thats why nothing is there. And everything is it.

Sounds, thoughts, visuals , feelings are identical as nothing. You just name them and label them thats how your so called life is existed. They created by nothingness and within nothingness. Nothing is nothing and simultaneously everything. Thats what have you become after passing gateless gate. Therefore every happening is you, because you are nothing. The sentences that you write, every word is actually identical. ?

Not sure if this helps but it's a great read...from Robert Wolfe's Ajata sunyata project: Nothingness Underneath the condition when you are awake and aware, and beneath the condition when you are in bed at night and dreaming, there is the deep-sleep condition. Here, there are no thoughts, there is no “you”, no mind, no relationships, no other, nor world, or universe. There is merely a condition of empty presence, no-thing-ness. Everything, every form, event, etc., is superimposed on this empty presence, by the mind in the waking or dreaming state. But the organism, the body, continues to exist despite these daily reoccurrence of emptiness. This condition in which there is no mind, no thoughts, no forms, and no you, is the “ground” state, your natural state. This empty presence is the condition of the organism before its birth (and its conditioning and the arising of the I-thought), and will be its condition once again upon the death of the form of “your life”. In other words, an organism appears to arise within empty presence, matures, and recedes again into empty presence (similar to the way an electron arises and recedes in the quantum field). The organism knew nothing of existence or nonexistence before birth, and will know nothing after death: “You” will not know that you— or anything else— ever had “existed”. Recognizing the fleeting temporality of “existence” – and that existence will be completely non-existent, in due course— it becomes clear that not anything that you do, think, feel or say has any lasting significance or meaning. (This is the message of the Bhagavad Gita.) All that appears, to the organism, to be done is merely a momentary expression of the field of ever-present beingness—utterly lacking in lasting reality. This is why it is said, in the nondual writings, that “nothing really matters”. It is also why it is said that (as a book about Papaji is titled) “nothing ever happened.” All that we learn in advaita is intending to point our attention to nothingness. (And not its “existence” or “nonexistence”, since where there is nothing, neither of these are applicable.) In other words, the intention of advaita, or nonduality, is to direct us to ajata. And, I would say, a thorough understanding of the former is necessary in order to comprehend the latter. When we come to recognize that, in truth, there is nothing from the start, we understand what is meant when it is said that all that we perceive is simply a dream, an illusion— seemingly superimposed on ever-lasting empty presence. Now, is this information simply an interesting “analysis”, or does this have practical value? Someone recently sent me a book by the Dalai Lama, and I’ll extract a few quotes. All phenomena are empty. Emptiness pervades not only your individual ego or sense of self, but the whole of reality…That emptiness of mind is its ultimate nature, or mode of being. To realize that, is to pierce and see through the deception of ignorance…freedom from ignorance (is called) nirvana… Realizing emptiness is directly related to our quest to purify our mind of afflictive emotions like hatred, anger, and desire…We project onto things a state of “existence”, and a mode of being which is simply not there…. This understanding of emptiness..is one of the principal factors of the true path….For such an insight cuts right through the illusion created by the mis-apprehension of grasping things and events as existing… We realize the emptiness of all phenomena, not just the mind and body of the individual.

Being is nothingness. You never be thats why you have no idea what is it. If you are being, you are nothing. Never said goodbye. Just said good luck. You just lie. Additionally, Dont lie about something that you have never become and dont provide fake info to people. But now, peace out.

There is no “I” or “you”. You are the moment. Every voice happens within nothingness, therefore nothingness is not silence. It is you. Everything is you. I am not in body or mind. Body and mind is an illusion. I am nothing therefore everything. Even you lol ? ? ? There is no i t o have a insight. I am the insight. Yes, because, Only nothing happens when you are truly you are. Because you are all there is. “Love speaks a unique twist and flavour” this is an expectation of ego and just a thought. 16 minutes ago, ivankiss said: You're just chewing on the same bunch of words over and over again When you become non dual, there is not much to say differently. All is just directly and same.

In my case - Self inquiry is great for insights / AHA moments, but not for emotions. And meditation is great to experience my nothingness nature, but it lacks emotions... For me it feels like emptiness without emotions. I was not being able to experience infinite love sober. How long do you meditate?

This morning when I woke up. Just before breakfest. I had a very beautiful insight. It gave me so much love and clarity, I wanted to share it with the rest of myself (you) (Also feel free to use this topic, to share anything. If you want) The voice in your head, meaning the (voice) you think you hear, or the process of you thinking, are actually all ego. Even when you think of something "good". And when God is speaking to you/through you, it's not through the mind, as in: not trough words. God softly gives his love trough the veil between nothingness and the material Universe, and you receive it as a feeling or an emotion. And your mind processes this as a "thought". If you are deeply interconnected with your emotions and feelings, you can through that process, deeply communicate with God (yourself). And the ego can never interfere that conversation. Trust your feelings, trust your emotions. If you you feel bad about something, that's the ego's work. If you feel guilt, shame, hatred, sadness, despair, frustration, pride, fear, etc. That is the ego doing its business. But this is so contradicting. Simply for the fact that the ego was and is only there for you to understand this, for you to reach this point and for you to see God's ultimate beauty. You are all of it, and there is nothing to be worried about. Because its You. It has always been YOU. A few qoutes (dont know from whom, found these on yogi tea-bags.) but fitting for the subject) "In the beginning is You in the middle is You and in the end, is YOU" "It is not talking of love but living in love that is everything" "Life is a gift. Experience is the beauty" Have a beautiful weekend.

If it wasn't for politicians and Fox News broadcasters, shit shovelers wouldn't have anyone they could look down on. But then there comes a time in one's development,,,,,, Coming from Peace and Stillness When you really see that the nature of the personality is reactivity, a cyclic reactivity, when you see the whole cycle of ego activity based on hope, desire and rejection, it is possible that the activity will cease, and peace and stillness will arise. Then it is possible to understand what Being is. When this happens, you’ll discover that even if there is action and activity, where you come from is peace and stillness. This peace and stillness that you are coming from is exactly what your ego resists most of all. In fact, the first experience of peace is what the ego is trying to cover up with its reactivity. It is a kind of death experience, because you experience nothing there, just complete, absolute silence and blackness. That is peace, complete peace. There is no action, no reaction, no nothing. Just complete silence, complete peace. You might actually be engaged in some activity, but where you are coming from, your fundamental attitude, is that there is no reaction to anything, no rejection of anything. If you allow this to happen, then it is possible to know what Being is. Essentially, this experience of peace, of death, is that you are not reacting, and that you are not. There is precisely the feeling of “I am not.” I am not, and so there is no reactivity. The full experience of Being is a little beyond this, is more a feeling that “I am,” but I am not reacting. Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 183 THE FEELING OF NOTHINGNESS “When the Work says that a man must come to realize his own nothingness before he can be re-born, it does not mean that he must humble himself and so on, but that he must by long self-observation actually begin to realize that he is nothing and that there is no such person as himself. The object of this is to get into a position, psycho- logically speaking, between the opposites...Why is it so important to get somewhere into the centre of the pendulum and not swing to and fro? Because here, between the opposites, lie all the possibilities of growth. Here influences from higher levels can reach us. Here, in this place where one can feel one’s own nothingness (and where one is therefore free from contradictions), influences and meanings com- ing from higher centres, which have no contradictions, can be felt. Not regarding yourself as good or bad, not priding yourself on being just or otherwise, not thinking you are well-treated or badly-treated, not being caught by either movement through identifying, you come into this mid-position. This is not easy! With personality active, it is impossible.” V. 1, p. 329 - Maurice Nicoll

This guy says Buddhism does not see God as the creator of heaven and earth, or humans. I'm really confused because I thought Buddhists mostly see enlightenment and God the same way that Leo talks about. Absolute infinity/nothingness/love. Something greater than the universe that includes and interpenetrates all aspects of it. If everything exists within God, how is God not a creator? Was everything not created just in this perfect way to maximize love? Is this guy just wrong?

@Nak Khid It really is nothing, not how you're imagining it though. It is completely impossible to imagine BTW, because your mind is finite and can only know finite things, whereas nothingness is infinite and without duality. It's like trying to imagine what having no eyesight is like, it's just absent. There is the experience of it being absent. You don't see black, you don't see any colors, it's just completely gone. That's what turiya is like, but your entire reality is gone along with your eyesight. And you just exist there. I like how Rupert Spira describes it, "absence of absence". Your reality/body becomes nothing but existence is still there. It's a paradox to the finite mind. Pure consciousness would just be pure awareness with nothing else, aka nothingness. What else would it be? What do you think pure awareness is like? It's awareness with nothing else. Pure existence with no content.

common error, mistaking the pure consciousness of turiya for nothingness

Name dropping is not going to impress me Consciousness is not nothingness. You are conscious therefore you can't experience nothingness. A soon as you are breathing and blood is pumping through and a heart beating you it is impossible to experience nothingness People are making millions of dollars of this nothingness scam . It's selling a pet rock for $10 It's not real nothingness it's pseudo-nothingness