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The thing in another words is that you realized that the form is just form, with nothing else behind. It's transparent, like an hologram, has not meaning. You were totally attached to the meaning, same than me or anything else. When you perceive the absence of meaning you perceive the absence of everything, but that's the vision of a drug addict that is in the paradise and there is not cocaine, then he perceive that there is nothing. There is no meaning, but there is substance. The substance is the reality, it's real, exist. It's you. You are not a person, are the substance of the reality, the person is form, and you already saw that the form is empty, then only the substance remains. Open yourself to it and that's it. What prevents the realization of the true nature is the form. If the form reveals as empty loose it's strength Why not commit suicide? Because seems that it's a path that we have to follow, it's not just form, it's the flow of the reality

@Breakingthewall Is actually crazy dude. I get what ur telling. But now i dont understand why being alive instead of committing suicide

@Leo GuraHow to defeat the devil? Right now I have no other solution on how to kill the devil than to commit suicide! This in my limited perspective would be the end all solution to beating the devil, since I am the devil the only way to kill the devil is to kill myself. I would never do that because I'm not suicidal but in my skewed logic that could be the only solution at my level of development. I'm curious how you handle the devil? What tools do you use to triumph over the Devil without becoming the Devil you yourself. My life purpose is to annihilate the devil out of this world. I will become the candle that destroys the cloak of darkness under which the Devil hides.

The distinction between physical and emotional abuse isn't that clear. For example, punching me in the face could cause me to fear you thus abusing both physically and emotionally. It is a manipulation and control tactic. In some cases emotional abuse can manifest as physical symptoms. For example after being repeatedly abused verbally and emotionally, it could create a situation where you are bottling up your emotions seems like the safest option. This can lead to muscle tightness, muscle spasms, and physical pain. There can also be various chemical reactions in your brain and body due to the fear and anger created. This is why I heard a psychologist argue that emotional violence in a sense is indirect physical violence. I'll let you decide if you agree or not. In my case emotional abuse has complicated my medical treatment. I was prescribed an anti psychotic because I was ruminating on my family situation which made me want to kill myself along with antidepressants which consistently made me feel worse. The medication damaged my liver and didn't solve the problem anyway. I came to realize that the systems around medicine and therapy had failed me by giving me medicine that worsened my condition while therapists treated me as if my lack of coping skills was the problem. I was treated as if there was something wrong with me even though most of attachments were developed as a survival strategy for a challenging situation I was forced to endure. With the threat of continued abuse, no amount books, spirituality, personal development, pills, and coping skills would be enough to give me peace of mind. The answer is for me to get away from the people who refuse to change like my mother and sister. Suicide could be a trauma response to various forms of abuse. My suicidal thoughts stopped when I learned My sister was moving out and I wouldn't have to live with her anymore. The threat of continuing to live with her impacted my decision to commute to college because I would be stuck in the same situation for 6 years of be forced to make an enormous financial sacrifice by living on campus or by spending my life savings on a down payment. Maybe I was spending all this time trying to fix myself, but I wasn't the problem. I also don't like the therapists who sent me back to live with these people due to my history of suicidal thoughts assuming my family would be helpful.

If you call a spontaneous knee-jerking suicide scare exciting and fun and having people concerned about you, then maybe you might want to reconsider your ideas of fun. This is why I said nothing other than I love you. I tire of all these suicide scares and will treat them like the boy that cried wolf from now on. None will get my attention anymore other than maybe a "you are loved" comment.

I think you're underrating your ability to handle high doses mate, the integration is just as important as the trip. Yes those doses would break many, like dialling emergency numbers, destroying things physically, trying to hurt themselves or others. After all the trip is just what you put in *your* body. 25 ug is gonna put some humans into psychosis that lasts days/weeks. If you've hit a point where it got troublesome, real and scary and direct it's just the summit of what these substances can do to someone, it isn't to do with dosage or frequency Objective supporter of psychedelic use here for the foreseeable future and had the knife of hell/evil/fear right up to my throat from them (metaphorically, i never put a knife to my throat on psychs, they scared me enough where i thought i had irrevocably put myself into hell) Objective none believer in internal/external religion or spirituality. That's just calling 1s and 0s a detailed mosaic Just make sure you do it right the first time, cos nothing is worse than a suicide chump :((((((((

@Nivsch There's a lot of errors in your chatgpt prompt. In Iraq for example, a lot of civilian deaths were from the anarchy, trauma, and sectarian hysteria that ensued. Suicide bombings alone account for 20-40% of civilian deaths, according to the same AI you used. That's not even taking into account roadside bombs. For afghanistan you have to account for these things too, and according to the same AI you used, roadside and suicide bombing accounts for 50-60% of civilian deaths. It also didn't account for the indirect deaths from sanctions, decreased infrastructure and resources for basic needs, care, increased poverty, and all these other sorts of things. Which raises the death toll and accounts for a lot of preventable deaths. Which is another thing that can be compared, and one where the U.S. did terribly in.

@Leo Gura I see what you mean by keeping these discussions separate. Unfortunately, my fear and avoidance of relationships stems from my attempts to escape deep pain and suffering caused by being trapped in abusive situations. My suicidal ideation and attempts were accompanied by me thinking about the hopelessness of being stuck with my family. This is actually a common trauma response to abusive relationships. I'd rather die then end up in a situation like my girlfriend committing suicide to leave me a single father with a child who hates me and blames me for her death and therefore develops severe behavioral problems leading to criminal activity like mass shootings. My attitude toward relationships needs to come from a place of reduced fear and avoidance. They prevent me from giving and accepting love. I remember I told you I was deeply wrong in terms of my attitude and approach to relationships in general. My family has shaped this attitude in a deeply negative way while on the surface pushing love out of social conditioning. I'll consider dating like my therapists recommended next year after I meet my current goals. Where did you learn about relationships and what is your general attitude? Will you make videos on building healthy relationships in the future?

My .. the girl I'm with is hinting at committing suicide if I leave her. What do I do?

Sometimes you invest your energy into wrong sources. There's nothing inherently evil. Just what I believe. ................................. Samadhi works but through the gateway of good and evil. ................................ I'm looking forward to integrating purity into my practice. Also I want to stay away from the world in general. I think that spiritual communities can cause a ton of harm. ................................. I don't know what made me write this. But I write it with a heavy heart. Like any other thing that comes with it's own set of pros and cons, spiritual communities aren't exempt from drawbacks either. I'm not specifically talking about forums although forums are a fraction of it. I'm just saying communities in general. I have reached a point where I'm seriously contemplating whether being a part of a larger community is really worth it if the results aren't really there and if things are just getting worse with the illusion that you're on a spiritual path and you are achieving something when in reality millions of people with mental and physical problems turn to spirituality only for bypassing their real issues, are barely able to cope through life and end up being and doing worse when they get on the spiritual path. They start to rot and lose interest in life and daily activities once they begin to live in a solipsistic bubble. Instead of thriving, they start rapidly degrading. The consequences can be anywhere from suicide to mental illness to death or just living like a zombie. I'm sure people in the past have also expressed such a sentiment on this forum before. It's a routine thing, not to mention the problem of false teachings. Things that degrade your mental well being or just take you on a path of disillusionment. You gotta do the math yourself. Are you in this for the better or are things genuinely not turning out to be the way they should. I was barely 9 years old when I first started with spirituality. I haven't come very far because life came in between. I devoted a significant portion of my life in chasing delusions (let's put it that way). I suffered autism at a young age and in my preteens I was obsessed with spirituality and religion. I always thought I was looking for something, searching for something, there was this existential crisis like thing going on with me. I was often at my wits end. Don't get me wrong. I derived a lot of benefit from this forum itself. Leo's teachings, his videos on personal development were a great starting point. But there's a problem. Everything is not so hunky dory. I still think that I suffered a bit in the process and not in a good way. It's like "invited" suffering. I don't know if this is the inherent nature of spiritual work. But I went through phases of insanity. But so far not so stellar results. I have significant mental illness. I don't know if that's interfering with my spiritual stuff. One thing I casually noticed in spiritual communities is the huge problem of spiritual ego. People fight a lot over what's right or wrong. There's a certain dogmatism that accompanies it. This downgrades the whole spiritual process significantly. This is not alien to any community, it's to be found in every spiritual community. Be careful with what you decide to put your energy into. I have suffered significantly. What principles should an ideal spiritual community adhere to? I think these are the principles I came up with that in my opinion a spiritual community should be able to reflect. Uplifting each other Keeping harmony Polite behavior Reduction in negativity Encouraging open mindedness Healing each other Non judgement attitude Peace keeping Thoughtful debating No one-upping No cult like rules Respect for everyone Working on behaviors Video conferencing and meet ups. Face to face interactions are better Flattened hierarchies No us versus them narrative No messiah complex Discouraging gaslighting Encouraging extensive communication Discouraging dogmatism Fostering understanding and mutual harmony Showing love Embodying values Working on integrity and character Fostering forgiveness Fostering mercy Fostering kindness Raising each other's vibration Encouraging emotional maturity Keeping community tight knit Cutting down spiritual ego Providing a safe space Not preying on vulnerability Extending support to people who suffer more Having a judgement free zone Fostering compassion Dissolution of separation Fostering Unity Empathetic environment Minimum use of power Encouraging free expression Valuing one another Not demonizing Embodiment of love One of the key foundations for life is self-awareness. Understanding ourselves, our strengths, weaknesses, values, and motivations – is crucial for personal growth and development. Self-awareness allows us to make informed choices that align with our authentic selves, rather than being swayed by external influences or societal expectations. It provides us with the clarity and insight needed to pursue our passions, set meaningful goals, and cultivate healthy relationships. Another essential foundation for life is resilience. Life is filled with challenges, setbacks, and disappointments, and resilience is what enables us to bounce back from adversity and continue moving forward. Resilience is the ability to adapt to change, overcome obstacles, and persevere in the face of adversity. It is a mindset that embraces challenges as opportunities for growth and learning, rather than insurmountable barriers. gratitude is a foundational value too, that enriches our lives and enhances our well-being. and define our purpose.. A small insignificant model I can follow everyday is the principle->action->outcome. Everything starts with a principle. Have a morning ritual or a morning habit. One thing that really gives me a kick are animal videos. Animals and predators in hot pursuit of prey. I work in a yarn factory but I need a better job with slightly more income. I don't plan on hoarding wealth, I don't want to. I want to spend a lot of my time doing spiritual stuff. But I sometimes wonder if developing a core foundation of my life will give me better prospects for higher stuff. Yesterday I gifted myself a diary so I can write a bit about my struggles with autism and foundational stuff. I'm thinking about going on a retreat in a log cabin. I just wish to shut off everything for a while. How would that life be? I want to maintain some early morning rituals. Focus music. I need to ask myself productivity based questions. One is achieving the flow state. I also need to consistently raise my standards on how I want things to be done and prioritize my mental state to always have an optimum state of mind and a state of flow. So the first thing definitely was principle>action>outcome. Entering flow states. Name 3 random positive actions I did today. Name 3 directed positive actions I did today. Name 3 powerful insights that you had today. Name 4 excuses that you gave today. If there's an outcome then there is success.. We do things because we want to see changes in ourselves. Sometimes we don't have the resources to do so. Sometimes we can't make good of the resources we already have. Some part of this forum is really esoteric. I don't understand some of the terms or should I say language. It can be confusing and sometimes misleading. You have to come down to the nitty gritty of things. I believe that reality is beyond our grasp. And if something is good for you, it will always be good for you. You won't have to regret it. Focus on what's traditional or basic. What works for you? It's your own greed that makes you chase your own tail? Don't be in the habit of always wanting more. Give more, take less. But take whatever is constructive. I'll contemplate on this. This forum is full of Spiritual Ego's and not in a healthy empowering way, if you notice the questions raised repeat themselves many times over, your not real, life is imaginary, God is all there is, sort of stuff, it really gets one nowhere, its someone just philosophizing in away, and philosophy is not so good to identify with since there are presently 8 billion different philosophies in the world today, everyone has one,, It basically our Intellects going out of control, this is rampant all over he world in many different areas of life, it will kill all of us eventually if we don't stop it, first within ourselves then world wide hopefully someday.. Just work on yourself, improve everyday in one area, drop a limitation every week, soon there will be none left... Just work on yourself, improve everyday in one area, drop a limitation every week, soon there will be none left... I can work on other areas of life. And i do a good a job at that. I don't want to lose my basics. But I'm looking for the cherry on top. Been looking for years now. Still a little destabilized while looking for it. Lucid dreaming does help me a shit ton. But I need something more rigid. If there's a 1% growth in my mental state, clarity, presence of mind, flow state, productivity, spiritual essence, minimalism, consciousness, infinite love, vibration and healing quantum that I'll admire that sort of an interaction. Positive affirmations for Foundations I have had a 3 % increase in my productivity in last 4 days. I have had a 1% increase in my productivity in last two days. I'm busy building my foundation. What are you naturally drawn to? What's your inner monologue? Cut down materialism completely You don't need anything at all.. Your mind is supreme. You need nothing material. Your mind doesn't cost money or any material possession at all. Your mind is a canvas. And this is the biggest advantage at your disposal, your own mind. It's like clay. You can shape it anyhow you want. Positive affirmations for Foundations I'm not broken. I'm a vessel of hope. The world tries to break you with its rules. Ironically this brings you closer to yourself. Reality cannot be controlled by humans or man made laws and so all these rules to discipline (especially without love) are futile. They will never work and they increasingly come from an egoic place. The world and it's contents don't help you discover the soul, it sabotages the soul and breaks the vessel mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. You're living the wrong way all your life. Saying thank you before eating. That helps because I'm feeding a vessel. Everything, everyday, eternally The purpose of the vessel is to connect with God. This doesn't require anything. I'm not sure if I'm going into esoteric blah blah. Anything that builds your vessel is good. Anything that breaks your vessel is bad. Kindness builds the vessel. It's simply surrendering to the absolute essence of peace. Nudging my ship forward bit by bit. Not trying to conquer anything. I don't want to go into paranoid states. It was literally the worst state of mind to be in. It made me become the worst version of myself. Literally. Posted on May 18. 2024. I want to build my foundations. I definitely want to. But at the same time I want an ardent spiritual practice to occupy a prominent position in my lifespace. I don't even call it life anymore. I call it lifespace. And heck I wanna do a lot of visualizations. This space wakes me up in a heartbeat. Nothing to worry. All chummy. I began living deep in the forests, high up in the mountains, somewhere in a log cabin. And suddenly I felt disconnected from all of reality. It was like eating dark chocolate. The lucidity of thought. The thoughtlessness of reality. Reality snowballs into a thick fog of meaningless traps that serve nobody's purpose.

@A Fellow Lighter I want to make it clear, with as much compassion as possible - you are not responsible for the actions she takes in her life. Most people who want to commit suicide don't actually want to die - they just want to end their current circumstances. Usually due to frantic, overwhelming, distress & pain. They see no other solution but to self delete. There is always another solution. I hope this knowledge releases you of some feelings of responsibility. You sound entangled with this women. We are each responsible only for our actions in life. We choose how to respond. No one else. You can let someone like this down gently by making them realize you are not qualified to help. Need a professional. <3

Been feeling directionless for a few years in regards to life purpose. I attribute my lack of success to being stuck in my mind for most of my twenties (27 now), suffering through a percieved depression and suicide ideation. I'd say I'm fairly receptive now but still find myself in depressive episodes everynow and then. I feel like Im ready to drop my past completely but Im having linerging doubts about whether or not its actually possible to live a mentally healthy life after experiencing years of depression and suicide ideation and specifically, creating this deep emotional victim identity. I'm wondering if theres anybody out there that has felt they've actually grown past their old depressive selves. If so, I'd love to hear from you. First off, is it possible? How bad was your mental state? How do you feel now? How does your life look like? Do you ever "relapse"? What are some practical things you did that actually made a significant shift in your perception? But above all, is it possible?! I've been reading some reddit posts of people saying they're in their late 20s or early 30s and have no purpose or depressed or gave up or this or that in hopes of feeling better but I find it feeds my pessimisim even more. I'd appreciate any response from anybody. Any thoughts at all. Thank you.

She is playing the suicide card. I had my ex do that to me that caused me to be with him twice. It caused me a lot of suffering. Don't fall for it. It's a huge red flag. When it's time to leave make it final.

I'm angry that she's playing the suicide card with me. She's so selfish. Her selfishness is the reason I want to leave her in the first place.

Serious chronic health problems that have no solution. Or very old age. I read about a case of an Iraq war veteran who got so badly wounded in battle that he could not walk, could not sleep, was in constant physical pain 24/7, had to be taken care of by a nurse every day, and had to shit in a bag because his intestines were too damaged. He lived in hell for several years, his girlfriend left him, no doctors or medicine could help him. His only realistic solution was suicide and so he killed himself. That to me is a legitimate case for suicide. Not getting laid is not. You don't even realize how good your life was until you have a woman to constantly deal with. You will be begging to be single after a while of girl drama. Sex with the same girl will soon get boring. And many other factors will diminish the quality of real-world sex: from problems with timing, to girls who are bad at sex, to condoms, to pregnancy scares, and more. Of course sex is nice, but it's not as nice as people make it out to be. Don't forget that sex ain't free. You'll be paying for it somehow. Usually with crazy drama. You will have to deal with all sorts of girl nonsense just to get that sex. Some degree of that is okay, but it does get old after a certain point. I'm not saying don't pursue sex or relationships. Pursue it. But don't exaggerate its importance to your happiness. A day will come when you will wish you were single and free. When you finally realize your need for girls was largely a fantasy of your own making you will finally find some peace and happiness. Don't confuse horny excitement and drama for peace and happiness.

Somewhat unrelated, but: What would be a reason to die? Is there a set of circumstances that would seem reasonable for suicide in your world view? And adjacent to that, I’d like to know how you reconciled yourself with all your physical health issues. Because you seem to do better now. I could listen to a lecture video about that topic.

Thank you for sharing, I used to be like you, I also wanted it all, suicide was a daily idea, but I realized the more I wanted the further away from that which I wanted I placed myself. The universe does not understand or respond to language as much as it does frequency. See when we say "I Want" we are letting the Universe know what we "don't have" and then because the Universe is your reflection, Creator > Creation, so to speak, It will give you more of that which you don't have because you are validating that which you don't have by saying "I want". See there comes a moment in life when we have to stop wanting and praying for god to help us because it rarely happens that way, rather god wants you do make the change within yourself and literally change to see the change around you and your life. We have to be the God/Goddess we are and make that first step, because the universe is simply a reflection of our inner-world. You can try create some daily affirmations and state them out loud daily and behave as if they are already true and exemplify them into actions. I Am, I have, I am grateful, I am worthy, My life is great, I am greatness, all the things you want, change the way you say and feel about them. Imagine you already have them and are them all, fake it till you make it, it works, but you gotta keep up the consistency. As above so below, as within so without.

This saddens me to hear so much...💛 It's heartbreaking that such a beautiful mind could feel this way. I’m so sorry. Keyro is amazing - or rather, the person behind this account is! You are awesome 💗💗💗 I’m certain many people in this community feel the same way about you. I really hope you find some light soon... We’re all here for you. Sending the biggest, most vibrant omniversal psychedelic hugs your way. This is just a random thought... but if your goal is to be formless yet retain memories, physical suicide might not be the path to take. Perhaps finding a way to make your life flexible enough to explore all kinds of psychedelic and mental planes would allow you to feel more free (?) Your mind is very creative and fluid - it’s no wonder this current reality with a human body feels limiting... Either way, please, please, please contact someone before doing anything irreversible, don't be too silly of a goose 💓🐥

Like if I sit at a beautiful tropical beach and meditate myself to death will that be the same as shooting myself in the head? honestly life on earth Is made for animals I don’t belong here lol. I just can’t handle I gotta do this properly if I’ll do it this is like my 10th post about suicide, sorry if it’s getting too repetitive. I’m just really trying to decide here

Exactly. There wasn't a plan here. There was a helpless feeling of suffering and self deception. She stated that she wanted to commit suicide already right? But this was a way of going out that made more of a bang. It was selfishness but also it was lack of love and communication. Had this person received the proper guidance, love, and tutelage then she probably wouldn't have committed suicide in this manner and took others out with her. Suicide happens every day it's just then when they decide to take others with them it becomes a big story.

I wonder if he would say the same about suicide.

What is the number one thing repeated in all male suicide notes? "Useless". Men need to feel useful like how women need to feel included. If not they can't survive or reproduce. Its the only thing Andrew Tate is right about.

It’s not just western. Russia for example has a very high suicide rate even among young females i think. And not just attempts but success. And many European countries are very safe and have very low school/shootings/killings etc.

@Ishanga @Breakingthewall glad you guys agree . The only caveat I would say is that unfortunately one has to learn this the hard way . They have to fuck up and try hedonistic desires before they realize that that whole approach just doesnt work .they certainly need to awaken to this. im very happy that im happy ..its like im drowning in an infinite sea of love that will melt me. I asked before Some people on reddit who think that happiness is derived from material factors such as wealth... But if it is so..then why do we hear celebrities and wealthy businessmen committing suicide? Because money does not bring happiness. .but up to a certain point beyond which it has no significance. If you are a fortune 500 CEO.. a lottery of $1,000,000 will not amount to much increase in your happiness. The reason I made this thread is because achieving everything that we desire in hope that that's whats gonna lead to happiness is the way 99% of ppl approach happiness.. and not by going inward and find inner peace. Because the classical spiritual teachings in almost all spiritual traditions is Realizing that happiness is totally an inside job (so to speak) and happiness does not depend on anything outside yourself. You need to cease creating miseries and unhappiness for yourself (also an inside job) and find the spring of causeless happiness within. But the first step to true happiness is realizing it is an internal thing (within you) and not an external thing (outside and around you). Otherwise..you are always looking in the wrong places for it (. in the world and not within yourself. 🙏

Recent podcast interviewing Adeptus Psychonautica about the dangers and traps within the spiritual/psychedelic community and the recent developments of actualized.org and the forum. What's really interesting is the host OXSN has his own intimate experience following Leo Gura and even initially defended him when Adeptus made an expose on the Connor Murphy incident. Watch how his journey and close friend's suicide sobered him from his own paradigm and ideology (the details of the suicide were vague as he didn't wish to disclose much; what's revealed is that OXSN did expose his friend to spiritual teachings including those of actualized.org before he ultimately took his own life) Some interesting points within the video: 34:09 "The example I use is like, if you saw a bee, like a buzzy bee but it was not trying to be a bee. It was trying to be a fucking elephant. It would be like 'you fucking bellend', just be a bee, just eat the pollen. Enjoy your life as a bee! Don't pretend to be an elephant, you cannot be an elephant, you're a bee. Be the fucking bee. That's how I feel when I hear all these like, you know, the people who get really obsessed with all the God-Consciousness. And that's not to say there's no value in those thoughts, but the value has got to compile back into a human being. To sit there and go floating about like 'oh, I'm so enlightened, I'm so God-Consciousness' is like, it serves no purpose other than to be like a wanker. But if you could embody that, if you could live your life like, when you come across someone who is like truly spiritual and truly a good person, a true role model: they don't have to tell you how fucking enlightened they are. They don't tell you what a good person they are and how better they because they achieved God-Consciousness. You just know like 'wow, this is a great person'. They don't need to tell you this. So all these people who like beat you over the head with how fucking spiritual they are, I could only assume they don't realize how fucking conterproductive that looks. Because I don't see anything spiritual with, like we say with the sort of 'the Leo Guras' of the world." 50:40 "I've got say, if there's one thing, out of all of Leo's flaws, the one thing I'll pull up on: the guy has like zero compassion and he's so detached from his own experience of a human being that, in my opinion, he doesn't seem to realize the effect he's having on these group of people. So that when he comes out with something really flippant on the forums, or- I'm sure he seems to handle things in his way, and not necessarily had something that's led to what's happened to your friend, but he's answering things in his way with zero understanding and like 'no, these might be people in trouble'. When I've been on the actualized forums, it is an absolute meeting room with very, very definite and very obvious mental issues. There's some serious fucking problems on that forum, and some of the moderators should not be moderating fucking dogshit, in my opinion. But they're all egging each other on and, one of the best descriptions I've ever heard for the kind of behaviors on actualized, which came from one of my friends James Jessal: there's a lot in the way where Leo describes his own activities, which feels like a challenge to the audience. Like 'I did all this 5meO-DMT so it got me here so you should do it'. And the guy will say things like 'you shouldn't do this', but it's a challenge. Like 'if you do this then you get to this level of Consciousness' and 'you just don't understand, you just don't understand, unless you've done it, you just don't understand'. So there's this constant challenging of these very vulnerable, very fragile, very destabilized audience; I just see people's fucking heads explode. Alot of people contact me because they want to talk about that experience. Especially the stuff around solipsism, which to me, it's almost hard to understand how people get so destabilized by that, but whether I get or not, at least I understand that people are going through this. Like people believe in this and they don't necessarily want to believe it. They don't want to believe that their loved ones are figments of their imagination 'but Leo's said it's true so must be true!' It could really fuck people's heads up."