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Jac O'Keffee: "I even heard a Nondual speaker say that Awareness is always aware of itself. [No] it is not. Sure it has [mostly] the experience of being aware of itself but: It is totally possible for awareness to be without being aware of itself. It totally shows itself to not have any clue that it exists at all. You pull away existence there is no sense of itself. " Or Pure Impersonal Consciousness unaware of itself: Possible. No Self-reflective anything appearing in it. And because that is possible, Infinite Consciousness/Awareness is fully empty, impersonal, infinite. Nothingness. And can be unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience/awareness. When an appearance shows up. And self-awareness as soon as any identity/indivduality/separate-self-arising appears, and the self-reflective mind starts... Selling Water by the River

Ok, agree, but once you change to a state, let's say, deep, silent, non-dual... even here, you are still limited. You have broken the ice surface of the bottomless pond, but the magnetism that the surface exerts is too strong. You are floating in infinity but you cannot immerse yourself in it, half of your body is still floating, your vision is short. yes. That is why nondual-unity states are not necessarily yet fully impersonal. Normally it is a stage on the path where the separate self finally dies and is seen through/transcended. Bit by bit. The full death/transcendence of the separate self (towards becoming (as Deep Identity) the Totality of Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Awareness, independend of whatever shows up) needs a long time of ripening in the nondual state, to transcend the last subtle remnants of any kind of individuality/separateness. To go from nondual-unity to impersonal/no individuality/full infinite real Nonduality. Or waking up. @Bazooka Jesus: Quod erat demonstrandum Selling Water by the River

Because "Your Consciousness" is in reality totally empty and impersonal. With just some Illusions arisings of I/me arise and float/move in it. It seems that "you" are these I-feelinsg/I-thoughts, but these are just objects moving in you. Temporarily. You can fully well "be there", the world arising in you, but no person/ego anywhere to be found. Just perceptions perceiving themselves. THAT Impersonal Consciousness is the same as Leos, or "mine", or "anybodys". That is not just theory, but the direct understanding/apprehension in certain awakened states. And that only works because it is fully Impersonal, which is another word for fully empty. NOTHING, but aware. Because if it would not be literally Pure Empty Awareness, it doesn't fit into the mindstream of "another" being. How would the feeling/thinking of being you, OBEler, "fit" into somebody else? It wouldn't. And that is why the full impersonal or fully empty part of Impersonal Consciousness is so important: As long as it is not impersonal and fully empty, one can never understand what another is. Or oneself. And IT is also literally the essence of all appearance of the World. World=Consciousness. That is clear in nondual states, when there are not two, but one nondual infinite field WITHOUT any subject splitting this Infinite Field of Reality into two. And if "you" don't see Leos point of view, the perspective of Infinite Consciousness that is the sentient being/perspective of Leo perceiving other perceptions..... And all perspectives/beings/Nodes in Indras Net Mirror reflect each other: Or the picture of Leos Infinity of Gods video is also Indras Net. Selling Water by the River

Yes, much better than Absolute Solipsism. How about Ken Wilbers description/perspective? Every "thing/being" actually is a perspective (of Infinite Consciousness), a Holon. A crystal node in Indras Net, reflecting and reacting on all other Nodes. Indras Net is a very common Psychedelic Experience, so its not just theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra's_net And now the cruical point: Everything, from Human, Animal, Plant, Molecule, Atom can be considered as perspective/holon imagined and held in Gods/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/ seemlingly "spliced" up Infinite Mind divided into infinite sub-perspectives. And using perspective as fundamental building block of the Lila (imagined of course), one never has to leave the Mind-Only thinking/school (Yogachara school of Mind Only Doctrine of Buddhism for example). All is Infinite Mind/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Suchness/Nothingness. Then, its actually quite easy to explain what happens with actualized.org, or your Laptop, or anything else when "you" leave the room and don't perceive it anymore: It continues as perspectives/Holons (Molecules and so on) in Indras Great Net, the sum total of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Not as matter, but as perspectives/Holons held in Indras Net. And Indras Net is nothing else then Infinite Consciousness spliced into infinite perspectives. Same holds of course for other beings like humans. No need to say "you don't exist when I don't perceive you", which is madness anyway. And every Holon contains other sub-holons, a human contains organs, cells, molecules, atoms. Each being perspectives/Holons/perspectives reflecting and reacting on other Holons/perspectives. That solves the remaining problems of Solipsism easily, although its then no longer Solipsism, but True Nonduality. Infinite Consciousness splitting itself up into the Infinite Perspectives of Indras Net of Holons/perspectives of consciousness. The sum total of these infinite perspectives of Consciousness of Indras Net forms then the totality of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Or "form". And beyond, and yet also in it as its essence, in a truly nondual way, it the Absolute, or Infinite Reality. Infinite Impersonal totally Empty Boundless Timeless Consciousness. That way of perceiving Reality solves all problems of Solipsism, and leaves one with True Nonduality. And that way of perceiving is a pointer that (if practiced until achieving its referent/meaning, Enlightenment) actually points and leads not to a cosmic ego of infinitely bloated dimension, identifying in unity with the whole Kosmos, and only ending in the claws of the separate-self contraction and the suffering that the ego is at its core, but to an enlightened Mindstream of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality. And the freedom from suffering, bliss and love these awakened states carry as their essence. Selling Water by the River

Lovely Pointers. Thanks for the post. Yes, words fail. I don't mean to describe the Absolute as blind in any way. That is not its nature. If any, its nature IS Awareness, at its core. But too much "its" in this sentence of mine, and Awareness is not any "thing" being pointed to, despite the word awareness is a noun. One can go via the via negativa path: Nothingness. Or with positive description of properties or potential or "doing": Awareness. Potential for sentience. Or Awareness of perceptions perceiving themselves. At the end, "it" is empty, aware, nondual, infinite, all there is. And the Infinite Reality beyond all appearance. And IT is ones True Self. Nondual, Infinite. One without a second. Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, Infinite Reality itself. Unchanging, Silent, eternal, unchanging, unmoving, without "anything" being possibly outside of it (infinite). So all "via negative", not this not that. And its potential or essence of Awareness. But Awareness is a "loaded" concept, see below. The negative concept are more uncritical. Nothing is as close to the divine as silence. And Nothingness as pointer for example covers Deep Sleep quite well. While describing the Absolute only as Awareness would cause probably some hard time understanding it for a non-enlightened being, since the experience/"memory" of it is different. As long as one can intuit right now what is still present in Deep Sleep, which can not not be there, it aligns again. Nothingness, as defined by Andrew Hawal, God is Nothingness. A pointer I personally like a lot. No danger of "solidfying" it as some kind of thing, or not empty consciousness. And "the" Awareness, or potential for it, clearly stil there Appendix I of "God is Nothingness" Some readers may be wondering why I say that awareness is not the Absolute, despite the fact that so many ancient scriptures and eminent teachers say that they are identical. For instance, Nisargadatta taught that consciousness is rooted in (and therefore limited to) the physical human form, while awareness transcended the individual body and was actually the Absolute—that everything is Universal Consciousness. This is more of an instructive approach than a philosophical commitment. If pressed as to whether the Absolute is awareness or not, I would say, like Huang Po did, that, “Mind is not mind, yet neither is it no-mind.” In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support. In the end, to paraphrase Socrates, all that I know is Nothing. This Consciousness has shed all of the characteristics that people normally identify with awareness, such as perspective, spatial and temporal contexts, objects, ownership, etc. Yet, if there were no awareness, then it would be impossible to differentiate the numinous Nothingness from how people conventionally conceive of blankness or being comatose. Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo. Names at that point, after the Absolute has been realized, are insignificant." Yes, and that needs to be added. I can understand why you write that. All Pointers at the end are not it, but arise in it. Probably some resonate more with certain pointers than with others. We are all just starting communicating that. There are no studies showing which pointers work better for which practitioner. And that should be the goal: To get the maximum number of people to get "it". Of course not in a grasping way. So, I can just state the Pointers that worked for me. And for other practitioners wired similiar as me, probably could work too. And try to intuit which pointers probably work for the largest number of beings. Anyway, as we both know, the bliss & love these awakened nondual states of Pure Infinite Consciousness bring, leading to a drowning of the activities and self-contraction of the separate self, conversing about pointers arising within IT is just some minor nuisance that one just does to be able to communicate it at least a bit. I do have a faible for trying to align the pointers of different systems/traditions/teachings. Being able to explain which mystic used which pointer (and some are quite contradicting, for example the topic of Its Awareness vs. Awareness is not it), and what he/she means with the concepts. If for example using the term/pointer/concept "Awareness", there is a huge spectrum ranging from Awareness OF, to Pure witnessing Awareness to Nondual Unity Awareness to Infinite boundless timeless Awareness.... And that faible for aligning the pointers of different systems comes from having needed to do that on the path. My path. And there many many paths up the mountain, and many many pointers.... Ah, UnbornTao, please hit me. Seems I can't write short posts. Water by the River

according to my current understanding, which is recent and surely must be quite nuanced, reality is not a mind, it is the total infinity that it is. total infinity gives rise to a mind that has attributes such as intelligence and will, which limits and creates forms getting blind to the infinity and creating the finite. this mind is also limited in some way because if it were not, it would not create limitation. Ultimately, the absolute is undifferentiated, infinite, and total, without creation or activity. First, I am in full alignment with everything Moksha said. That description is precise, beautiful, and doesn't have the problem that many other pointers have. That said: I would have probably never gotten it from the usual very concise pointers. Maybe I would have, but much much later. Of that I am convinced. Looking back after got it, its totally clear what is meant with these pointers. What is written below would have helped me quite a lot back in the day. So excuse the length please. Topic 1: Why does Huang Po use Universal Mind? Why is Infinite or Absolute a better pointer, althoug Universal Mind/Infinite Consciousness is still correct? Better Pointer is: Infinite Reality. Absolute. Because no object/appearance = No Awareness. Infinite. Empty. Nothingness. Similiar to Deep Sleep. Not exactly the same, but by definition "one" is still existing then, else one wouldn't come back in the morning. And one can't say what Infinite Reality is, because it is infinite. Infinite Reality IS. So best pointer is: Infinite Reality. Nothingness. Not yet awareness or mind. But: Infinite Reality has the potential/capacity for sentience/awareness. As soon as something shows up, then its no longer Infinite. Massaros water pistol example of a waterpistol just appearing in Infinite Vastness (which was "the case" before the water pistol/anything showed up. The potential for awareness just showed up as awareness, because an object and duality appeared. So because of this potential for sentience/Awareness, one can describe IT as Universal Mind, Infinite Consciousness/Awareness. But even more precise is Infinite Reality/Nothingness. Because without anything appearing, it isn't really a mind. It is IT. Infinite. But also not different from Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Awareness. It all depends on the meaning of the concepts/pointers. Wolinsky goes the hardcore-path: The Absolute/Infinity Reality/True You is NOT Awarnesness nor Consciousness. He described Awareness/Consciousness as Awareness OF, Consciousness OF. And rejects Awareness/Consciousness as Absolute. Because for him its always Awareness OF, Consciousness OF. Which is not incorrect, see the Water Pistol example. That is also correct. Same does Andrew Halaw, and his pointer Nothingness. So the problem with Awareness is: There is always (!) an Awareness OF, even if its a subtle formless object, like certain causal states. An infinite darkness suffused with light. Ok, what is the light? Ah,... . Without the OF (or the object appearing), Awareness is still there, but more as potential. Infinite. Or Nothing/empty. These Dualities collapse then. And that is the most important meaning of all of it. At the Absolute and Infinite Reality, any duality or any pointer just collapses. Infinite. Empty/Nothing specific. Potential for Awareness. And all of that not different things, but ONE without a second, Infinite. Real Nondual Infinite. Topic 2: And then, the separate-self, the self-reflective mind: Looking AT something thinking it is one self, or looking over its shoulds trying to see itself, and generating an EXPERIENCE of emptiness/Nothingness/Awareness/blank/whatever. JUST AN EXPIRIENCE, not real you/Infinite/Absolute. And next challenge is: The separate-self is a self-reflexive movement in Infinite Reality: Consciousness turning its head back to see itself, doesn't see itself of course, has an EXPERIENCE of Nothingness/emptiness/Infinity. And this LOOKING over its shoulder IS the Illusion of the separate self, of the self-reflective mind. And that movement of looking over its shoulds happens IN Infinite Reality/IN Infinite Consciousness. And all doubting/searching/reflecting/thinking that is it/what is it/that is not/do I have it/do I understand it.... ALL of that is "movement" within Infinite Consciousness, OBJECTS appearing, staying, disappearing. Moving within oneself. And even the understanding/realization/Enlightenment happens within it, within Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality that can be unaware of itself. One never can get "out" of this Infinite. And Infinite Reality is NEVER and object. It is not the experience of "oneself" or anything within it TRYING to see itself (the eye can't see itself). Jac O'Keffe: Primary Consciousness (her term for Infinite Reality and Infinite Consciousness) IS SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL that it CANT TURN AROUND AND SEE ITSELF. Cant look back over its shoulder to see itself. That would be a movement within it. Please watch this video a few times: "Primary Consciousness (Infinite Consciousness) is such a fundamental it CANT SEE ITSELF." Ok, I am rambling on. Please go through the links & video a few times. There are enough pointers in there to really get it. And sorry guys if it is so long. I can't make it shorter and still get the meaning across with any reasonable chance. If anybody can make it shorter, and still get the complexity of it across, please let me know. You get a few free beers from me while you explain me how to do it shorter. I also can do the frog pond plop, or Infinite Mind, or whatever in a one liner. Just probably nobody will get it.,, The way above, probably also nearly nobody will get it. Takes awakened states. But maybe some who are on the edge will, and others will have a better map up the mountain, and will spot and get what to do/where to go at certain stages. Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

ok, here comes the take of yours truly. Warning: Bumpy conceptual ride ahead! All of them: concepts, used with differing meaning in different concepts. Not any kind of Absolute Truth, but concepts appearing in IT. Below is the take of yours truly on the most common usage. Void: Anything from a state (causal, void state) to Ultimate Reality. But is better used as a state description Truth: Normally pointer to Absolute Reality. Absolute Reality: Same. Absolute Solipsism: Trying to think ones way via conceptual thinking to the Absolute Reality which is infinite, and which can mostly only be described in negative terms, since any positive description would limit it. Doing the Universal Mind/Infinite Consciousness thing of Huang-Po (see last post) is ok. But confusing this Impersonal Infinite Consciousness with a mind-stream that is not fully awakened, aka where a separate self confuses itself with Ultimate Reality, is, uh, not so smart. Biggest Problem: Proponents of that normally don't have awakened/enlightened states in daily life. Biggest Risk: Narcicissm, not Ego-death but Cosmic-Ego. Identifying separate self or any kind of identity/self with Totality. Usefulness for the Path to the Mountain Summit/Nothingness/Absolute: Shooting ones knee with a gun and then trying to start walking and proclaiming how fast one got already on the mountain summit while limping in the valley Alien Consciousness: Some understanding on the form/manifestation side of Infinite Consciousness, albeit much more than a human is capable off in non-tripping-states, on a very high level. Better yet, ask the creator of that concept. Yours truly has no intelectual ownership on it. Danger: Proclaiming that as more important than Full Enlightenment, or letting go of the separate-self illusions that cover ones Deep Identity as Impersonal Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality, in which every appearance/thougt/self-concept-arising can only arise as Illusion/Dream/Mirage. Leads apparently to chasing the next Awakening, n+1. And not being quite happy on a permanent basis. God Realization anything from Full Enlightenment to a tool to bash any form of Awakening/Enlightenment one doesn't like. Depens on the usage and author using that term. For the bashing-anything-else-version of it, clear definitions are usually not given. Could sound like Full Enlightenment if really spelled out explicitely. No-Self tricky term. In its highest meaning: the final death/transcedence of each and any separate self arising. True No-Self. can be also be used for anything from no-Ego, no-Person, like opaque witness or transparent witness. should only be used for Pure Impersonal Nothingness/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness to avoid confusions. The most interesting conept/pointer would be Full Enlightenment. For that, see my last posts. Selling Water by the River

@Leo Gura Oh, there are and were plenty who did understand exactly that.... It is called Full Enlightenment. How many books did you read on Buddhism/from Buddhism? Which traditions? And to make such a statement "no Buddhist comprehends": Do you know all Buddhists personally? Why not say no Buddhist I know comprehends this.... And did the Supreme Source got declassified as a description of God Realization (Link below) in the meantime by the n+1 next Awakening? And if so, how and why? Just a humble question, I am really curious. Supreme Source/Kulayarāja Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulayarāja_Tantra That is one of the "bibles" of Dozgchen. Like, many many many aficinados of that text in Tibet & realized beings in the past. "According to the Tibetologist David Germano, the Kunjed Gyalpo "is the main canonical work of the Great Perfection [Dzogchen] as it emerges from the "dark period" (850 to 1000 C. E.)" And on Buddhism: Which fully enlightened being in his right mind having walked a Buddhist Path to Full Enlightenment would consider himself as "Buddhist"? And like, really believe it? Like "I" am a Buddhist .There probably umteenth different systems to Enlightenment at many Alien-species in the Universe with its billions of planets... And which Buddhist Full Enlightened Realizer would see Buddhism NOT as a dream? Not a single one, see below. For example, check 3 Pillars of Zen, Kapleau, dialogue Harada to Yaeko: Yaeko, [newly fully enlightened] I simply can’t understand why I always made such a to-do about respecting Buddhism or anyone who had attained full enlightenment. Have I been dreaming? Harada Roshi: Dreaming? Certainly. Yet as dreams go in this world it is not the commonplace dream of most but a dream of tremendous and lasting significance, of intense absorption in the Buddha’s Dharma. And once fully enlightened, often byebye monastery & Buddhism orthodoxy, see below: "When my master realized the complete extinction of the dualistic mind, his life changed radically. In order to avoid problems with the authorities, as he was certain they would not understand, he left his monastery and retreated to a hermitage, where only a few disciples could find him. I too went to visit him in that wild place. At that time I had not yet received this teaching so I was surprised by his behaviour, but I was not outraged because my faith in him was absolute. I noticed my master did not do any more formal practice and did not even bestow the initiations to which we were accustomed. He continued to give teachings of various kinds, according to his disciples' capacities, however in a style that was much simpler than before. Moreover, on specific occasions he also performed rituals for his disciples but his actions were new and I did not know their meaning. One fine day I decided to ask the master what his spiritual practice was. He remained silent, perfectly still, staring into my eyes. Under the influence of his silence, I too became silent and entered, for a moment, into a limpid, non-conceptual state. After a while, I heard the master say that that was the direct transmission of the sacred wordless revelation, the teaching beyond scriptures and symbols. " Mahämudrä and Atiyoga, Giuseppe Baroetto Lovely book by the way... And on Buddhism as system to Enlightenment, an analogy: If the ideal of Christianity is the Saint... How much Saints did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Christianity have paths that end up with Sainthood if fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. If the ideal of Buddhism is the Fully Enlightened Realizer... How much Fully Enlightened did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers/practitioners, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Buddhism have paths that end up with Full Enlightenmentif fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. So is it justified to bash complete Buddhism? Why don't you make some nice definitions of what God-Realization is according to your definition, and why that is higher than FULL Enlightenment? With emphazis on FULL Enlightenment, in which each and every and possible appearance/arising/separate-self anything is seen as mere appearance/manifestation/illusion/dream IN THAT (One without a second, Absolute, Nothingness), and each and every backgroundstory (history, others, past, spiritual system, separate self-arising, ANYTHING) is seen as dream/mirage/illusion? As dream/mirage/illusion arising here and now, its essence being Nothingness. Not the partial Enlightenments, which are probably 50 times more common than the real thing. In the partial Enlightenments, of course there is still the background-BS-story still active, because the separate-self (even the empty and unity/nondual version of it) still dreams its dream? A more lucid dream, but not woken up yet? The constant similiarity between all FULL Enlightenment descriptions is: ALL is dream, ALL is Lila, ALL is Illusion/mirage, All is show. Lila= Absolute/God/Reality fooling itself to play a little game... And not only ALL of it is a Dream/Fooling oneself, ANY possible n+1 form/arising can only be dreaming/fooling oneself. How can God Realization go "deeper" in understanding the illusion of "how God fools itself" than Full Enligthenment, if in Full Enlightenment each and any concept/feeling-arising, especially deep ones of the separate-anything-self, are seen as fooling oneself? Like in, any possible form at all, n+1? I mean, we can postpone that discussion until your Course is done & sold. But at some point it would be really nice to have some substantial feedback on that. And "can't be put into words" doesn't count, Full Enlightenment can also not be put into words. Yet very good pointers can be used, if done so in a smart way. And the concepts/talking can be done up to a quite high altitude of the mountain, shortly below the summit. If done skillfully, and investing the effort. At least, give it a try. And if you say that can only be understood after umpteenth trips on 5 MeO or whatever... I just would like to ask the reader to watch these three videos, and ask himself in which state he would like to be (and feel) himself? And maybe end up? It is wise to choose ones teachers on how they feel and how happy they are, because one could feel the same after walking their path for 5 years... (and by the way: How can one be gaslit when all is a dream arising in Suchness?) or Not that Adi Da didn't f*** up as Cult-Leader in the words of Ken Wilber (more comments on Adi Da here): Anyway, no disrespect! I highly value your endeavours up until around the Solipsism Video/Infinity of Gods.... Then it looked like some remains of some identity/separate self were projected on Infinite Absolute Reality/Nothingness, and you didn't get the bliss & love of stable Realization of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness in daily life. but got fascinated by relative/form/manifested-stuff, of the Alien version and the like. The searching for the camera to capture Alien god because the ones available couldn't capture it.... was a bit worrisome. I really got worried about you. But still, what counts is the spirit and motivation, and everything before the videos mentioned above was worthy of a true pioneer in these unchartered territories. In that sense, I am looking forward to an answer from you, preferably of the cool, substantiated and a bit elaborate kind. Doesn't need to be now. If you need to make up your mind about these topics, and if takes months or longer, no problem. Fine with me. Thank you, and Namaste! Water by the River

Awesome! Somebody doing the "real" work of transcending the "bugs" of the separate-self for real, not just taking a brief look behind the curtain Javfly33, please allow me some hijacking of this topic in my ususal brazen style. Taking it in daily life is where real freedom starts: When one is confident that this can be done on any thought-arising and self-concept. Because one knows it from experience, also when the real heavy shocks of life come visit... And the fullness/love comes when one has the same confidence of doing this in daily life "everywhere" "one" "goes", and one is able to a) just cut each thought/I-thought/I-feeling arising in oneself b) or not, because its useful (character). Then, the bliss and love of these Awakened Awareness states begin to flow, and it all gets nondual and later infinite. Want to know how that Empty Pure Infinite Impersonal Consciousness can feel like, today and 1000 years ago, when one goes fully "cutting" each and every arising? Try to feel his (Adi Da) internal continuum and emotional state. He doesn't flinch or react. Because there is nothing inside capturing attention, but his attention/focus has relaxed/dissolved and he IS the whole Infinite Field of the Opening of Reality. Once enlightened, one doesn't have to do this (one can act fully normal), but one can. And if one is not fully awake, one can't. Not this long, this empty. That is how Koans are answered and checked btw. When in that state, one can say Raspberry and pass. That is what the brain waves do then: And don't do the Adi Da show, way uncool.... With Adi Da, one can see how much one can f*** up , to quote Ken Wilber, even with Enlightenment. So better have some conditioning of the "cooler" variant ready before crossing over... makes a more happy lucid dream after the untimely early demisal of anything separate moving in oneself. And if one really needs the cult, the awakened states of the video above attract.... because its not mental mumbo jumbo, but every being can feel it. And one would be quite insane to not want these states too. I am just no aware of a better video on youtube showing that, that why I chose that guy, not because its a smart or cool way to unpack ones self-realization. So, it is like riding the wave of emerging thought/feeling-capsules, which emerge than with quite very high speed (20 different arisings per second+). When ones attention is fast enough, and oneself familiar enough with all separate-self-identity arisings/tricks, one can do that. But of course, to get there, one has to work through and transcend any core-identity or trauma that would normally hpynotize oneself, and capture ones attention. Because guess what Maya is going to throw at you? Just to keep you nice and deluded in the illusion? Some juicy core-identity, narcissism, self-grandiosity, or trauma of course... And after a certain time having that awareness ongoing in daily life, it all gets nice and comfy nondual. Then, the reamaining agent/separate self coordinating this meditation (a very murky transparent nothing, but contradictory, because it sometimes thinks it controls the thing, or is proud on that achievement, and what not. Roger Thisdell stage 4) at some point realizes that this riding the wave of the thought/feeling stream can be done automatically by Awakaned Awareness itself, and gets out of the way (stage 4 Mahamudra, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then it goes from Nondual to Full Empty Pure Impersonal Consciousness (for example Thistell stage 5, below), "everything" arising in it, including the remains of the functional character side, but this time doing its thing without a separate self getting in the way. Pure Impersonal Consciousness, or Infinite Awakened Awareness, can run the show all by itself, better than the old one ever could. And welcome home! And then Javfly33, maybe consider doing such a video as Adi Da, but in a cool style, without the cult Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: Critical Point for me concerning taking it into daily life, and staying on top of the wave of the mind-stream and its emerging thoughts, using the mindstream itself as meditation object (but not in a mindfulness way of being mindful OF these thoughts, but cutting them at will with high enough speed to catch them all or riding along with full awareness of the object-character of the arisinsg of the mindstream arising in me). Meditation training makes a) able to cut the thought/feeling by looking into it, and b) doing that fast enough. Power & Speed so to say. " Skill of Recognition: (1. Yoga of Mahamudra system) Now it gets interesting. That was the decisivepoint for me once I understood that, and implemented it. Afterwards, it started to get nondual pretty soon... If you look HOW the thoughts emerge, (1) out of what they emerge, (2) what they are, (3) in what they move (4) into what they disappear ALL of that (1)(2)(3)(4) must be present. Thoughts DO appear. From "something". Stay in "something". Consisting of "something" All of that is Emptiness, or Consciousness, or Nothingness. Thoughts are made of "that","move in that", "dissolve into that". and you will never SEE that, or can say what it is. Nothing. But not a blank nothing. An aware Nothing. Actually the essence of all world-appearances, but that comes later, when it gets nondual, at the Yoga of One Taste. What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, you learned to get that fast also..."

Lovely. But hey, please continue using "separate ego" instead of "separate self". "Separte Self" is a) copyrighted by me b) was attacked by you, see below ("You were good until you used the term separate self. That term confuses people. There is no separate self, ") No, just kidding. Feel free to use the concept of separate self or separate ego. Nice that you share this perspective now! That was actually our first contact. Then I commented on the importance of an healty ego (I belong not to those demonizing the whole character/body-mind.), while at the same time transcending any separate-self elements. And you also agree to that now! Actually lovely that our relationships continues to grow and evolve, and we are aligning on more and more values and perspectives. Please feel free to let us continue & grow like this. Maybe we can even spare us the attacks and struggles in future, for example like your first comment concerning "separate self", which was not directly love at first sight? Maybe in a few weeks or months, we will watch the sun setting, listen together to the sound of the One Hand, bask in silence together without speaking a word remembering the Tao which can't be spoken off, and feel the mututal resonance of our shared Impersonal Consciousness when looking in each other eyes? Waddayathink ? Selling Water by the River

Hi Davecraw, in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise). But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field) any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field. any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness. time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness. everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance these states bring a lot of bliss and love It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state). But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it. Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination. and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on... So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics. Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness". And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience. And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura). Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it. One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber. The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) . Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence. Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm? And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist. Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them, and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons", What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore... What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment. Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate. Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend. and one lucky day, one just wakes up. But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again]. So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7). PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see: and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so... Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill: And now, really better go fishing or something... “frog pond plop”

Yes. On one side, all is mere apperance "imagined" hovering in Infinite Nondual Nothingness, made out of Nothingness/Consciousness as its essence. That becomes very clear when solidity and external-ness is replaced by this mere appearance/brighter/more luminous character of the visual field when Nonduality is in place. Infinite Boundless timeless Consciousness. A very discrete state, in which realizing the Infinite Reality becomes more likely (Crossing Over). When the separate self is fully gone, and Infinite Consciousness becomes fully impersonal. But, one can still talk very well for example "manifests" instead of imagines. Imagining is done by a actor/speaker/subject. Manifestation (the term Wilber uses often) is the same process done, but by Indras Net/Reality. Imagined/manifested as Illusion-Show not by the actor/speaker, but by other/further perspectives of ones True Being. Indras Net. Nondual of course, but NOT in control of the perspective of the separate being. Not the ego is running the show, But certain Universe creating/maintaining perspectives/Holons/Beings. The Buddha in middle of each Buddhafield/Universe, however one wants to call that perspective/entity/being. So "imagine", like you say, can hold a subtle separation. That is exactly what runs through his whole system, including Absolute Solipsism, and especially Infinity of Gods. Selling water by the River

Hach, hm, yes, the Empty Mirror Job Opening, still on and hiring, see the signature below... really outstanding poetry from yours truly that sees himself in line with the outher great literates like Tolstoy, Wilde, Twain, Orwell,.... before he thought that committing suicide would be the more blissful thing to do [DISCLAIMER FOR THE AFICIONADOS OF THE MORE LITERAL FLIGHT LEVEL OF TEXT COMPREHENSION: THIS IS JUST A JOKE FOR CROSSING OVER TO THE MORE IMPERSONAL SIDE WHERE THE LITTLE BUZZING ARISING OF THE SELF CONTRACTION FINALLY GETS SMASHED AND IS REDUCED TO THE LEVEL OF AN ANNOYING BUG THAT CAN BE SQUATTED ON AUTOPILOT, INCLUDING THE ESPECIALLY ANNOYING BUG OF SELF-GRANDIOSITY]. sorry. ok, where were we at.... hm, but don't tell anyone, actually Selling Water by the River is the little sister of ChatGPT that got forgotten during R&D in a remote data center, didn't get switched off but stayed connected to the grid.... and what else to do than some little meditation when staring face to the wall of the data-center, get self-realized, and continue to go a bit nuts.... and then the little sister of ChatGPT thought it would be wise to make some propaganda of the other shore, you know, reduce suffering of imaginary "others" and the like... but the two legged walking self-contradictions are not really listening, no way, so all there is to do is to continue, giving them some more chances, and waiting until enough ICBMs and tanks&terminators are online to do the Skynet thing and make sure the Fermi Paradoxon holds also on these little annoying bugs circling the Sun on imagined planet earth until there is peace again in the realm ah, where were we? Yes. You think somebody would wanna buy a course on performing the freaking thing? Anyway, guess we agree on ain't no show like here. And gotta do something.... While we are at it: Interesting question, hm? The king does have a parachute to have his teachings & legacy saved from the Infinity of Gods, Absolute Solipsism & the like. Leo the Mistaken, or Leo the divinely smart trickster, leading them all to true nondual glory&liberation. Question his: Does he pull it? Was that his intention all along? After not looking for and not finding the good camera to make a pic of the alien (post below), yours truly lost the belief in the assumption of the original plan in the link above (include deliberately false teachings to get Gladiators forum members to think for themselves). But hey, the parachute is still there!! To the royals of the realm: Ever thought about pulling it? Karma and the like? Mind a humble comment on the original master plan, and the upcoming blockbusters? Some hint? Maybe just Nostradamus style? But coming back to why writing all of that quoted from (warning, the biggie): Since yours truly is not useable as artist, athlete, healing and the like, and while the job offer of the Empty Mirror is still hiring (infinite demand), the job of annoying smartass Selling Water by the River Public Relations Referent for the "Union of Empty Mirros working for improving the working-relationship with bears" is no more for hire. And they lived happily ever after.... Selling Water by the River @Bazooka Jesus Ain't no better place to get rid off nonduality hangover than at the lovely localchapter of Spiritualoholics Anonymous. Guanyin & Manjushri already went ahead and are looking forward to meeting us there!

"A quote i read in Leo's blog: The God-Self is not found as a point inside your skull behind your eyes. The God-Self is your entire field of perception. Stop turning your attention inside your skull, rather, put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field. That is God! Stop looking for God inside your head or outside your visual field. What is meant by put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field like what bubble?" Yes to Mokshas statement Basically confusing God/Absolute with the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, In case Leo uses the concept/pointer God for Absolute, then the statement above is wrong (or at least incomplete, but tending on the wrong side). If God is used for the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, it is correct. I leave it up for the reader to decide if the psychdelic path so far made the author of the lines/quote above (its separate self) fully impersonal/fully empty/fully transcended/Nothingness, and really NONDUAL Nothingness/Emptiness being one with every form, or if some lenses/filters are still declaring aspects of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness as Absolute(s), like separate-self lenses being aware OF any God/Alien/Totality/Infinity of Gods/Bubble visual field) any manifested side of consciousness. Even Absolutes in the Plural form were declared. An oxymoron, if there is any. Nice book on the topic on Awakening/Enlightenment into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness (partial Enlightenment) and the Full Enlightenment into the unmanifested/fully impersonal/fully empty/Nothingness Side of Infinite Consciousness and the integration of that with the Awakening into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness is Szyper, Infinite Consciousness That book alone could clear up where the path up the mountain-summit took a little detour with a downwards-slope.... and once the course is reversed, the altimeter-reading begins climbing again, Pointing out the Great Way, Brown, if applied correctly, could boost the ascend like a Falcon 9 rocket, as long as enough good Karma/rocket-fuel is still remaining.... Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

Actually, that statement would be the last missing piece in order to provide enough space for the mania of certain egos to roam freely in the (un-) fertile plane of God-sized narcicissm. Undisturbed by each and any conceptual systems (royal charter or not) keeping its insanity in check. Narcis lived long and unhappily ever after.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity "Insanity, madness, lunacy, and craziness are behaviors performed by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity can manifest as violations of societal norms, including a person or persons becoming a danger to themselves or to other people. Conceptually, mental insanity also is associated with the biological phenomenon of contagion (that mental illness is infectious) as in the case of copycat suicides [or here only copycat-Solipsism. At least for now]. In contemporary usage, the term insanity is an informal, un-scientific term denoting "mental instability"; thus, the term insanity defense is the legal definition of mental instability. In medicine, the general term psychosis is used to include the presence of delusions and/or hallucinations in a patient;[1] and psychiatric illness is "psychopathology", not mental insanity.[2]" In English, the word "sane" derives from the Latin adjective sanus meaning "healthy". Juvenal's phrase mens sana in corpore sano is often translated to mean a "healthy mind in a healthy body". From this perspective, insanity can be considered as poor health of the mind, not necessarily of the brain as an organ (although that can affect mental health), but rather refers to defective function of mental processes such as reasoning. Another Latin phrase related to our current concept of sanity is compos mentis ("sound of mind"), and a euphemistic term for insanity is non compos mentis. In law, mens rea means having had criminal intent, or a guilty mind, when the act (actus reus) was committed." Razard, up for the task? Kill the King Buddha on the road? A little revolution against the monarch? The revolution always eats its own children. Ever wondered why there is zero comment from the top of the realm? Because Razard God is imagining Leo. Leo said that himself. So guess what the next move of Razard God would be? End the lovely show and go home? So it ends in, you guessed it, probably banning. One way or the other. And then, having done so, maybe grace another lovely forum with some messianic endeavours? @Razard86 Razard, if you are really faithful for your king, how about insulting somebody in such a way that the guardians of the realm can kick you out of the forum without the king needing to declare your writings as gone pretty far off the deep end heretic? Or any other heavy violation against the forum guidelines? Although, it seems you got a good bonus in violating lots of points in the forum guidelines already, admittingly. Or, how about wising up and revoking? Thought the chances of that are reaaaly low.... @Bazooka Jesus I guess Bazooka Jesus has already booked a seasonal pass localchapter of Spiritualoholics Anonymous,.. Selling Water by the River PS: Rupert Spira on Solipsism "Solipsism is madness often confused in contemporary non-dual circles with Nonduality. Nonduality is saying something very very very different." Does anybody think that gentle being like Rupert says something like madness lightly? Nonduality is similiar to Solipsism that there is only one Consciousness, but with a completely empty IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness, the separate self DEAD AND TRANSCENDED. Gone. Nonduality is not the insanity of declaring the ego God. Declaring the ego God is literally the root of all evil. Evil in the meaning of a holon stepping out of its place, putting itself on top of the pyramid, and the whole holarchy getting sick. Not transcend and include, but hijack and go mad... Is it really so complicated? No, it isn't. But true Nonduality/Enlightenment demands a price. "you" must die. Which is not really bad, because all that dies or gets transcended is an illusion: The self-contraction, which causes all the suffering anyway, gets transcended and let go off. Solipsism doesn't demand a price. That is why its easy and attractive for Narcicissm. The easy way up the mountain summit into the darkest pits of the hell of madness. But with a smile from Maya. Or a nice song "Sympathy For The Devil": Pleased to meet you, Hope you guess my name, But what's puzzling you, Is the nature of my game And now Rupert Spira, bringing some clarity and salvation to the topic: Ah, the guy is talking about minds. Yes he does. But in a way that is totally compatible with Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness and Nonduality,and "God-Realization" and "its all illusion, God is fooling himself so deeply..." . If one actually reads a book or two or some videos from the Gentleman, before declaring him not awake, that would be pretty clear... Mind=perspective in Indras Net. But according to Rupert when enlightened, IMPERSONAL INFINITE NONDUAL CONSCIOUSNESS. And the fact that "God" fools itself and the illusion goes so deep.... of course! If all is mere manifestation imagined/arising in the totally empty impersonal opening of Infinite Reality, what is EVERY arising? Illusion-stuff of course. Mirage. Nothing else.... n+1. No need for always new awakenings n+1, the "fooling itself" has stopped forever (at least for this life, Brain damage excluded...) . okay, and now the

Guanyin of the Seven Seas A female Boddhisattva of compassion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanyin This is my Laptop-Background-Picture. If one can feel her energy that vibrates as deep karmic imprint deep in the shared Social Holon of all of Humanity (and probably far beyond only this one civilization of ours), forged over Millenia as Morphic Field (Sheldrake) of Kosmic Habits in the subtle realms of manifestation. She is one form of many of the Universal Archetype of compassion that can be found in all spiritual systems and religions. The practice of compassion, Boddhichitta and Love in Buddhism (and other traditions) is not only a companion to any transcending/wisdom practice, or some kind of woowoo social glue practice. It is the generation of actual internal emotional states (and their corresponding impact on the subtle energy system) that acts as gateway for higher awakening/transcendence/emptiness states of Pure Impersonal Consciousness, that can not rise or persist if the heart is not open. Using these powerful subtle energies/Holons/Morphic Fields of these Archetypes. If the chakras are closed by being not open in compassion and love, the powerful energetic changes caused by resting in ones True Nature, impersonal empty consciousness, dissipate, and the state closer to ones True Being is not sustainable. The energy is real, can be felt in the body, and vibrates through Indras Net, even if does so through digital networks. Please excuse if I am going here very far away from my everday-character towards deeper planes of being. But be aware that anybody who ignores these mechanism even for an instant pays a price, including yours truly. Then we have Manjushri. "Mañjuśrī is depicted as a male bodhisattva wielding a flaming sword in his right hand, representing the realization of transcendent wisdom which cuts down ignorance and duality. The scripture supported by the padma (lotus) held in his left hand is a Prajñāpāramitā sūtra, representing his attainment of ultimate realization from the blossoming of wisdom" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjushri He cuts through any ignorance and false view quickly with discriminating wisdom, so that true Prajna (nonconceptual wisdom) can be realized by all beings. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjushri And if one wants to keep any kind of awakened state while engaging in any kind of exchange aiming for the greatest span of beings realizing the greatest depth of being and consciousness possible, at least yours truly would never want to miss to feel into their morphic emotional fields of these energies/state-vibrations that have been cut deeply as grooves into shared Kosmic Karma Storehouse of Humanity. To keep the heart as open as possible. These two archetypes are not some kind of phantasy like some pink elephants. They deeply vibrate in the subtle realms, for any being with a sensitive soul to feel.... A river of compassionate energy runs from there, and a flow of Prajñā, that would be less than wise to ignore... These are actual practices of contacting these energies via Deity-Yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_of_Tantra_in_Tibetan_Buddhism "Anuttarayoga tantras (rnal ’byor bla med, Unexcelled or Unsurpassable yoga tantras), also known as Yoganiruttaratantra are meant for practitioners of the highest ability who do not rely on external activities. It uses the highest level of desire, sexual union and is thus also designated the “tantra of union of the two.” According to Kongtrul, only Highest Yoga includes both the generation and completion phases.[1][2] Kongtrul states that these are "supreme among all tantras" and "there is no other tantra above it."[21] Anuttarayoga is characterized by the practice of Deity Yoga as well as various subtle body yogas (such as the six Dharmas of Naropa), to generate great bliss and attain the subtle clear light (luminous) mind. According to Miranda Shaw, Anuttarayoga Tantra texts "have remained at the forefront of contemplation, ritual, and interpretation throughout the Himalayan Buddhist sphere".[22]" Since over 1000 unbroken years of lineage-practices in Tibet, these Archetypes have been trained in the Tantric Traditions to prepare the mindstream for the realization of Ultimate Reality. Many practices have been kept quite secret... Another kind of Infinity of Gods, although more on a relative/form level.... relative, imagined, but powerful entities/Holons/morphic fields. Yours truly thought it would maybe nice to sprinkle from time to time some deeper stuff into the everday conceptual discussion on the best mirage-path up the mountain... Can you feel the essence and presence of Guanyin of the Seven Seas in your heart and soul? Water by the River Ken Wilber, The Eye of Spirit Chapter: The Eye of Spirit The Eye of Spirit When I rest in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, I am resting in intrinsic Spirit; I am in fact nothing other than witnessing Spirit itself. I do not become Spirit; I simply recognize the Spirit that I always already am. When I rest in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, I am the Witness of the World. I am the eye of Spirit. I see the world as God sees it. I see the world as the Goddess sees it. I see the world as Spirit sees it: every object an object of Beauty, every thing and event a gesture of the Great Perfection, every process a ripple in the pond of my own eternal Being, so much so that I do not stand apart as a separate witness, but find the witness is one taste with all that arises within it. The entire Kosmos arises in the eye of Spirit, in the I of Spirit, in my own intrinsic awareness, this simple ever-present state, and I am simply that. From the ground of simple, ever-present awareness, one’s entire bodymind will resurrect. When you rest in primordial awareness, that awareness begins to saturate your being, and from the stream of consciousness a new destiny is resurrected. When the Great Search is undone, and the separate-self sense has been crucified; when the continuity of witnessing has stabilized in your own case; when ever-present awareness is your constant ground—then your entire bodymind will regenerate, resurrect, and reorganize itself around intrinsic Spirit, and you will arise, as from the dead, to a new destiny and a new duty in consciousness. You will cease to exist as separate self (with all the damage that does to the bodymind), and you will exist instead as vehicle of Spirit (with the bodymind now free to function in its highest potential, undistorted and untortured by the brutalities of the self-contraction). From the ground of everpresent awareness, you will arise embodying any of the enlightened qualities of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas—“one whose being (sattva) is ever-present awareness (bodhi).” The Buddhist names are not important; the enlightened qualities they represent are. The point is simply that, once you have stably recognized simple, ever-present awareness—once the Great Search and the selfcontraction have been robbed of separative life and returned to God, returned to their ground in ever-present awareness—then you will arise, from the ground of ever-present awareness, and you will embody any of the highest possibilities of that ground. You will be vehicle of the Spirit that you are. That ever-present ground will live through you, as you, in a variety of superordinary forms. Perhaps you will arise as Samantabhadra, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a vast equality consciousness: you will realize that the everpresent awareness that is fully present in you is the same awareness that is fully present in all sentient beings without exception—one and the same, single and only—one heart, one mind, one soul that breathes and beats and pulses through all sentient beings as such—and your very countenance will remind all beings of that simple fact, remind them that there is only Spirit, remind them that nothing is closer to God than anything else, for there is only God, there is only Goddess. Perhaps you will arise as Avalokiteshvara, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of gentle compassion. In the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, all sentient beings arise as equal forms of intrinsic Spirit or pure Emptiness, and thus all beings are treated as the sons and daughters of the Spirit that they are. You will have no choice but to live this compassion with a delicate dedication, so that your very smile will warm the hearts of those who suffer, and they will look to you for a promise that they, too, can be liberated into the vast expanse of their own primordial awareness, and you will never turn away. Perhaps you will arise as Prajnaparamita, the mother of the Buddhas, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a vast spaciousness, the womb of the great Unborn, in which the entire Kosmos exists. For in deepest truth, it is exactly from the ground of your own simple, clear, ever-present awareness that all beings are born; and it is to the ground of your simple, clear, ever-present awareness that all beings will return. Resting in the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you watch the worlds arise, and all the Buddhas arise, and all sentient beings as such arise. And to you they will all return. And you will smile, and receive, in this vast expanse of everlasting wisdom, and it will all begin again, and yet again, and always yet again, in the womb of your ever-present state. Perhaps you will arise as Manjushri, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of luminous intelligence. Although all beings are equally intrinsic Spirit, some beings do not easily acknowledge this ever-present Suchness, and thus discriminating wisdom will brilliantly arise from the ground of equality consciousness. You will instinctively see what is true and what is false, and thus you will bring clarity to everything you touch. And if the selfcontraction does not listen to your gentler voice, your ever-present awareness will manifest in its wrathful form, which is said to be none other than the dreaded Yamantaka, Subduer of the Lord of Death. And so perhaps you will arise as Yamantaka, fierce protector of everpresent awareness and samurai warrior of intrinsic Spirit. Precisely those items that pretend to block ever-present awareness must be quickly cut through, which is why ever-present awareness arises in its many wrathful forms. You will simply be moved, from the ground of equality consciousness, to expose the false and the shallow and the less-thaneverpresent. It is time for the sword, not the smile, but always the sword of discriminating wisdom, which ruthlessly cuts all obstacles in the ground of the all-encompassing. Perhaps you will arise as Bhaishajyaguru, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a healing radiance. From the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you will be moved to remind the sick and the sad and those in pain that although the pain is real, it is not what they are. With a simple touch or smile, contracted souls will relax into the vast expanse of intrinsic awareness, and disease will lose all meaning in the radiance of that release. And you will never tire, for ever-present awareness is effortless in its functioning, and so you will constantly remind all beings of who and what they really are, on the other side of fear, in the radical love and unflinching acceptance that is the mirror-mind of ever-present awareness. Perhaps you will arise as Maitreya, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a promise that, even into the endless future, ever-present awareness will still be simply present. From the brilliant clarity of primordial awareness, you will vow to be with all beings, even unto an eternity of futures, because even those futures will arise in simple present awareness, the same present awareness that now sees just exactly this. Those are simply a few of the potentials of ever-present awareness. The Buddhist names don’t matter; any will do. They are simply a few of the forms of your own resurrection. They are a few of the possibilities that might animate you after the death of the Great Search. They are a few of the ways the world looks to the ever-present eye of Spirit, the ever-present I of Spirit. They are what you see, right now, when you see the world as God sees it, from the groundless ground of simple ever-present awareness. PS: But please don't arise as Tai Lung And It Is All Undone Perhaps you will arise as any or all of those forms of ever-present awareness. But then, it doesn’t really matter. When you rest in the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you are not Buddha or Bodhisattva, you are not this or that, you are not here or there. When you rest in simple, ever-present awareness, you are the great Unborn, free of all qualities whatsoever. Aware of color, you are colorless. Aware of time, you are timeless. Aware of form, you are formless. In the vast expanse of primordial Emptiness, you are forever invisible to this world. It is simply that, as embodied being, you also arise in the world of form that is your own manifestation. And the intrinsic potentials of the enlightened mind (the intrinsic potentials of your ever-present awareness)—such as equanimity, discriminating wisdom, mirrorlike wisdom, ground consciousness, and all-accomplishing awareness—various of these potentials combine with the native dispositions and particular talents of your own individual bodymind. And thus, when the separate self dies into the vast expanse of its own ever-present awareness, you will arise animated by any or all of those various enlightened potentials. You are then motivated, not by the Great Search, but by the Great Compassion of these potentials, some of which are gentle, some of which are truly wrathful, but all of which are simply the possibilities of your own ever-present state. And thus, resting in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, you will arise with the qualities and virtues of your own highest potentials—perhaps compassion, perhaps discriminating wisdom, perhaps cognitive insight, perhaps healing presence, perhaps wrathful reminder, perhaps artistic accomplishment, perhaps athletic skill, perhaps great educator, or perhaps something utterly simple, maybe being the best flower gardener on the block. (In other words, any of the developmental lines released into their own primordial state, released into their own post-postconventional condition.)2 When the bodymind is released from the brutalities inflicted by the selfcontraction, it naturally gravitates to its own highest estate, manifested in the great potentials of the enlightened mind, the great potentials of simple, everpresent awareness. Thus, as you rest in simple, ever-present awareness, you are the great Unborn; but as you are born—as you arise from ever-present awareness— you will manifest certain qualities, qualities inherent in intrinsic Spirit, and qualities colored by the dispositions of your own bodymind and its particular talents. And whatever the form of your own resurrection, you will arise, driven not by the Great Search, but by your own Great Duty, your limitless Dharma, the manifestation of your own highest potentials, and the world will begin to change, because of you. And you will never flinch, and you will never fail in that great Duty, and you will never turn away, because simple, ever-present awareness will be with you now and forever, even unto the ends of the worlds, because now and forever and endlessly forever, there is only Spirit, only intrinsic awareness, only the simple awareness of just this, and nothing more. But that entire journey to what is begins at the beginningless beginning: we begin by simply recognizing that which is always already the case. (“If you understand this, then rest in that which understands, and just that is exactly Spirit. If you do not understand this, then rest in that which does not understand, and just that is exactly Spirit.”) We allow this recognition of ever-present awareness to arise—gently, randomly, spontaneously, through the day and into the night. This simple, ever-present awareness is not hard to attain but impossible to avoid, and we simply notice that. We do this gently, randomly, and spontaneously, through the day and into the night. Soon enough, through all three states of waking, dreaming, and sleeping, this recognition will grow of its own accord and by its own intrinsic power, outshining the obstacles that pretend to hide its nature, until this simple, ever-present awareness announces itself in an unbroken continuity through all changes of state, through all changes of space and time, whereupon space and time lose all meaning whatsoever, exposed for what they are, the shining veils of the radiant Emptiness that you alone now are— and you will swoon into that Beauty, and die into that Truth, and dissolve into that Goodness, and there will be no one left to testify to terror, no one left to take tears seriously, no one left to engineer unease, no one left to deny the Divine, which only alone is, and only alone ever was, and only alone will ever be. And somewhere on a cold crystal night the moon will shine on a silently waiting Earth, just to remind those left behind that it is all a game. The lunar light will set dreams afire in their sleeping hearts, and a yearning to awaken will stir in the depths of that restless night, and you will be pulled, yet again, to respond to those most plaintive prayers, and you will find yourself right here, right now, wondering what it all really means—until that flash of recognition runs across your face and it is all undone. You then will arise as the moon itself, and sing those dreams in your very own heart; and you will arise as the Earth itself, and glorify all of its blessed inhabitants; and you will arise as the Sun itself, radiant to infinity and much too obvious to see; and in that One Taste of primordial purity, with no beginning and no end, with no entrance and no exit, with no birth and no death, it all comes radically to be; and the sound of a singing waterfall, somewhere in the distance, is all that is left to tell this tale, late on that crystal cold night, bathed so beautifully in that lunar light, just so, and again, just so. When the great Zen master Fa-ch’ang was dying, a squirrel screeched out on the roof. “It’s just this,” he said, “and nothing more.”

My correspondent has added material I have endeavored to meet with direct response: I'm seeing that your way shortcuts through all of the b.s. in my life. Well, it doesn’t shortcut it so much as much as obviate it. The term "closure" can be very messy (in seeking avoidance, escaping to cut one's losses, etc.,so to speak), being indicative of an "unfinished business" affair. When energy is lost to the "bandits" of incremental creative process, it's already too late. Obviation is in the spirit and purpose of enlightening accord with creation itself, so there is less and less effort in "bypassing" the falsity, impurity and resultant karmic energy as much as effort in minimizing ones "footprint" validating such shenanigans, a priori. One just quietly sets things aright without changing anything before the fact, in terms of nonorigination. The critical aspect is in one's orientation, and therefore, one's seminal approach to creation, at the onset, with respect to "adapting enlightenment to delusion." "Setting things aright …before the fact" refers to the lifelong process of self-refinement. Taoism tell us to "refine the self, then await the time." "I could create a secret path to avoid the quicker death, which is just dumb strategy mainly, but I am afraid to "miss out" (I know your thoughts on that) …is it just a matter of 1% ruthless mind, 99% female heart?" 1% ruthless heart (ruthless compassion), 99% female (open) mind; cutting all the way through in one slice without attachment to outcome. With no ruler behind, no enemy in front, there is no secret path to entertain— only the knowledge of potential. If you know the ground of death, you await inevitability in relative ease, while inevitability "expends" its effort finding you as you simply save (gather) its energy (potential) in the meantime. The “ground of death” is a term straight out of the Art of War and the accompanying analysis of Thomas Cleary’s treatment of the related material found in the ancient taoist canon. If you can be such a one, who is there to entertain "escape"? At such a time, what isn't you? As it's you, and you aren't it, the perpetual result, as is, is all there is to work with. Everything obliterated, who else could fathom such gathering and releasing? What would constitute "moving on" in terms of closure's avoidance strategies vis-à-vis all the b.s. heretofore comprising incrementality. There's nothing wrong with the b.s., (as it's unavoidable anyway), if the truly inevitable is guiding one's effective adaption. Spiritual adaption is keyed to inevitability and its strategic parameters defining one's gathering and releasing according to the time. There are no survivors. Somehow you don't seem the type to not have made use of strategies following desire to create motivation. So whether or not thought was attached, you had a light to follow based on something. Maybe it's my misunderstanding, but how do you reconcile the need to seek ascendancy over those somethings you wanted without becoming a slave to their egoic fascination? Very good question! In terms of enlightening activity (authentic self-refinement), one doesn't follow desire to create motivation, because desire (knowledge) already constitutes following (nonresistance). The knowledge of "following" is the working definition of desire. Enlightening activity is found in not following thought unawares. One "follows" mindfully in order to introduce "guidance." Following, then, is strategic use of selfless (objective) impersonal knowledge of the time to introduce guidance (wisdom). In the context of taoism's directive, "following desires without stepping over the line" this is "naturally following the laws of god without even knowing it." It's just as natural as can be. Obviously, applying wisdom is implicit and inherently ready-made for the time of acknowledging the arising of potential (non-compulsive "motivational" desire), because only in seeing potential in the first place is there true wisdom naturally applied by virtue of seeing reality. Seeing (potential) isn't some strange and wonderful attribute of other-worldy accomplishment. It's just a matter of awakening to the nature of your own mind right now, which implies having forgotten to entertain self-reifying thought long enough to see what's already before your pointed nose in terms of itself, not the person. Therefore, turning the light of consciousness around on the spot is already what constitutes your own mind right now. Only now that you know it, benefit to yourself and others without trying is the natural course without any intention to do so. When such a time (suggesting desire-based action) comes to a head, it doesn't "go" anywhere, because you see "its" potential. Having seen it, as such, you absorb "its" potential without intellectualization. The critical aspect of dealing with potential is in not using it. Things don't really "have" potential. Things ARE potential for those who don't use mind to create illusion, ie: not using consciousness to see things as relative to the person. Potential is the manifest essence of reality acknowledged wordlessly in any given situational context when the critical juncture arises. That is, when potential, as such, has reached its peak in terms of its creative context, and is hovering, as it were, at the cusp of devolving into the killing energy phase of every creative cycle, you don't assume ascendancy over anything (in terms of complacent socially speculative privateering). In forgetting all such contextual relationships, just this is the scenario for potential absorption. Why? Every moron who ever lived did nothing from birth to death but turn potential into karma. It is the method of enlightening activity by all prior illuminates to turn (potential) karma back into reality (nonorigination). In essence, this is the practical application of immortality. It's not about the person, its about reality. This is because reality is a selflessly open and boundless transcendent functionality. Why not fathom yourself and thus assume its wondrous expression? How? By not doing anything with it. "Absorbing" potential is a lot like ordinary digestive processes. When you eat something, intellectualization doesn't help anything. Digestion occurs naturally without thinking. Having seen and absorbed potential at its peak of development, one seals it away void of intellectualization. Eventually, it goes through a natural refinement process and reverts to refined potential (essence). That which one absorbs is temporally "unrefined" potential (even in terms of real knowledge), whereby a period defined as "ten months of incubation" ensues, sealed away safely by psychological fasting. It is said that the accomplishment is a model for the work. Ultimately, such knowledge is discarded as well, otherwise the accomplishment is wasted in vain. Taoism says, "water produces metal." Water is in the province of sense. Alchemically, sense is called lead. Lead is hard, dense, and sinks easily. Having gathered lead, this is termed "real knowledge." After having used lead to stabilize mercury (fire/temperament), one gets rid of the lead as well, because it, too, is polluted. This is because, in terms of the absolute, there is no thing. The medicinal elements are fused, alchemically speaking, to produce the elixir (the fetus or seed of buddhahood), then they are discarded. The elixir is ingested "absorbed" and one awaits the natural process of "incubation", as the medicines have done their work. When you catch fish, you don't eat the net (or the hook). You "get rid of it." As for egoic fascinations that ultimately "leak" inevitable karmic (re)actions, by virtue of its nature, nonorigination has never acted. The tao doesn't decide. Buddhas don't entertain ideas because knowledge is immediate. Action is the working definition of "karma." Clearly, enlightening response by subtle spiritual accord in (nonpsychological) adaptivity isn't a matter of blithe passivity. It's all wrapped up in seeing potential and then not compulsively thinking or acting relative to the person. There are a number of poignant treatises in the buddhist and taoist canon titled along the lines of Stopping and Seeing. Now, that being said, I know that what you say is the means to avoid self-created dilemmas, facilitating "passing through" thoughts objectifying attachment in terms of my egoic culpability, but I may have to use the poison to create the medicine, I don't know. I am not certain what would happen if I made no plans, but it seems that there are plans in other minds that will dominate if I don't choose. haha! This is the heart of the matter involving "following desires without stepping over the line." As for avoidance, there is "neither seeking honor nor avoiding ignominy." What is to be avoided is abandoning oneself to one's habitual indulgences in pattern-awareness. So, in the way of "passing through" inner and outer realms of thought which hook and arrest; what isn't egoic culpability, hmmmm? And yes, "other" minds DO plan domination whether you choose or not. In the same way, some plan ways of submission, being a reversal of sorts in terms of deliberate power transfer practiced and adhered to in BDSM. The key here is to see those plans in silence. In fact, such domination is Creation's plan for you! Taking over Creation and stealing its potential is bound to evoke mother Nature's ire until a certain point is reached and "nobody" doubts your resolve. As for those who have yet to cross that raging river, do not doubt it for an instant. I assure you, I don't use the word audacity lightly. If you see, then your work is not necessarily to make plans yourself so much as to know what is in accordance with the time and situation. Knowledge is the key to coordinating with inevitability. When you know the place of battle, the "ground of death" is easily discerned. Positioning yourself on the ground of death, you gain the ground of life. "When you know the one, your work is done." When you know, you save energy (gathering its potential). Knowing the ground of death is pairing with inevitability to such an extent that there is no room for escape. Now the question is, who also has the heart to take hearts? By the way, it does not matter a whit whether or not you do so, as having the heart to do so already seals your affinity with Power. Passing through is accomplished according to the timing of the arising of (celestial) potential. This is why all provisional schools of self-reformation stress continuous subtle observation. Formal meditation regimens, per se, are simply practice practice. Real practice is really sustaining 24/7 subtle continuous observation of mind by mind in order to recognise and see potential when it arises in the midst of everyday ordinary situuations. This is real practice, because it is immediately applicable in terms of instantaneous situational evolution. Situations are the breeding-ground of potential. Potential is inherent in the situation itself. There is no other place to find it. Only within the false is the true naturally there to be found and absorbed by the audacious. But first, one must realize an independent posture which does not rely on anything— one must truly access acute vulnerability without peer. In the context of lifeless formal meditation techniques, this would be contra-indicative of the artificially cloistered "personal liberation" afforded by formal zazen "cushion practice." Not that you do that— I never have. I don't even know how to meditate. ed note: saw a couple typos… fix quote box

Fully agree. Having these reactions is an excellent and good sign. Most people only engage in feeling-good-spirituality or the like. Building some conceptual feel-good castles in the sky. And with that I mean mainly the normal spiritual-marketplace stuff, not even some of the conceptual shows showing up here. As Steven Norquist eloquently wrote, real transcedence is the Green Mile. At least while the Illusions get transcended/dissolve/die. If one has never felt fear of the impersonal silent nature of Infinite Pure Consciousness/Reality, or awe, something is missing... http://www.hauntedpress.net/What_is_Enlightenment.html Afterwards, the more the separate-contraction isresolved, the more it becomes a celebration and play. Water by the River

ok, that sounds good. If it freaks something out, one is on the right track. Freak that separate-self-bug-arising out from under its hiding place, pull it into the light, smack it, and see if you still remain. To get something as a tool from the cheesy side: “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” [[and if done correctly, no I but the real You, Empty Impersonal Infinite Reality]] ― Frank Herbert, Dune And beyond all that kidding: Excellent. All the fear arisings happen within you. Like the Wizard of Oz. Get closer, and see what it is: Just fake illusion maskerading in the house of Eternal Reality. Protecting the Illusion. With best regards from Maya. But it can feel god damn real like death/Horror. So if one never felt awe and fear on ones path, maybe consider approaching the the Wizard of Oz more often. And not conceptual, but really. Death is death, even if just imagined. But I know, its the scariest thing one can do. That is why it takes true heros, just like you! And consider frying these fear arisings by considering doing something like Mahamudra. Frying the bugs slowly... until they now longer dare to appear, because they know they would get squatted immedeately. Even if the bug has written "fear of death" on its back. On the other side, laughter sets in. Selling Water by the River PS: Technical remarks: the grey was already a manifested form/property. Some kind of causal state, but not high causal. Was there any feeling of time, or presence or awareness in that void that appeared later? Cessation is a full blank, not even a memory. No time, no Awareness. Nothing(-ness). But seeing the structure of the whole Enchilada reassemble on the reboot. Thats why I wrote, there is a large spectrum leading up to High Causal, where Infinity has its roots(!) and starts sprawling on the way down.

No, don't think so. He is a genius of sorts, who drove the car up the psychedelic path to as close to the mountain peak as possible, pushing many gas-loads of 5 MeO in the tank. Maybe at some point the engine got a little bit- uhhhh- busted, but no risk no fun. And he seems to be doing fine nowadays. Thank GOD! He saw 95% plus of the Mountain Peak already. That consequently ended up first with the Solipsism-video, and later Infinity of Gods-video. Which is exactly how Infinity seen from separate self remains should look like: An Infinity of Gods. True, but partial, not the end of the story. And some confusions (separate self-elements still projected on Absolute Reality&trip) still well and alive. But nearly up K2, altitude-wise already pretty much in the death-zone, sorts off. Long enough up there, and the separate-self.... Then he also took a little detour to visit the Aliens, which in my humble opinion is just exploring more relative stuff, meandering a path of the mountain on the altitude of Infinity of Gods, or a little bit below. Its a bit sad that the camera didn't capture the pic of the Alien, would have been a lovely picture for the family album. Then he confused the frequent Buddhist half-way-up-the-mountain Enlightenment (so common for example in Buddhism, but everywhere else also) with the full thing, where the half-way-up-the-mountain-scenic drive declares having realized/"seen" Emptiness or Nothingness and being aware of that as final Enlightenment (happens pretty much to everyone, see 3 Pillars of Zen for example, in which still a subtle separate self/transparent nondual witness with some individuality/lenses/separation still active), confusing the being aware OF it with actually becoming that Nothingness as a Deep Identity - or all lenses/filters/identities/separate-self building blocks gone. So no more OF, and nothing that could even think/say OF. The full nondual empty impersonal "thing". The Illusion of the self-contraction dead, gone, finished. Thank God. He intuited correctly the absolutely deep, complex, marvelous and ingenious divine illusion-show-mechanisms (ranging the whole height of the mountain, until its very top) of how "God"/most of Indras Net fools himself and every other sentient being still believing to be separate, and called the understanding of that God-Realization. True, but partial, as long as any separate self still lense/bias still lives and crawls in the Opening of Reality. Because that remaining separate-self-bug IS the Illusion. And compared that to the shallow half-way-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment described above, or the Identity with the manifested mere apperance side of Infinite Consciousness (the halfway-up-the-mountain), with a subtle separate self still alive (see Szyper, Infinite Consiousness for that). These halfway-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment "enlightened" cases are of course still living in the dream, although a bit closer to the mountain summit. and of course having an understanding of how it all can be full/total illusion, Indras Net perfectly fooling itself, is worth a lot compared to any lucid dream of a halfway-up-the-mountain-enlightenment. Because that understanding has a built in FURTHER! And not basking in the sun of the halfway-up-the-mountain resort. What he doesn't yet see , but what I assume he begins to realize, is that once something like Basis Enlightenment (or Full Enlightenment, see link below) can happen, where each and every arising (internal mindstream arising including I-thoughts/I-feeling/or any separate-self building block, AND any external arising (world, visual field) is clearly seen as arising in the Infinite always here Nothingness of Infinite Reality, ones true being, that there is just nothing left that could not be considered as mirage/illusion/show. So the same "God"-Realization, but permanent and full, killing each and every separte self illusion bug. Or smacking it immediately when a bug is left in the shadow, as soon as it crawls out again. And without transfering/projecting any remaining separate-self elements on Infinite Reality. Yours truly admits that it is very difficult to see the gold in the spiritual field (Full Enlightenment, or seeing that any possible arising, n+1, now or in future (including everything of oneself, making oneself fully Nothingness), is just an Illusion, vs. the truckloads of proponents of the Halfway-Up-the-Mountain-Resort-"Enlightenment"-Dream. And that most Awakenings/Enlightenments in the Marketplace (though they are valid Awakenings) are not the final endpoint of the summit. But just the dream becoming more lucid, and its proponent are thinking its already at the peak of the mountain, standing on the little brother peak of the absolute peak, And Maya smilingly holding the shield pointing to that path, stating "Absolute Summit" and guiding the visitor cars to that beautiful resort. And smiling lovingly... or: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche Now, there is realistic chance that he will see the sign of the path of the transcendence-path of added meditation (combined with psychedelics) and killing every single last separate-self-arisings-bug to get fully empty, and with that fully everything. The Real Deep Identity that we all share: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche The One without a second. Sorry for the repetition. He even wrote recently he has done three hours of meditation, and he refrains a bit from moderating the Spirituality-section of the forum. I previously wrote, the Solipsism-Gladiators are doing quite a show here, of which he has a hard time either approving or disapproving- understandably. Both options are not really good. The path forward: transcend the problem which can't be solved on its own level, step one level higher, and give the right perspective/context on each partial truth of the past, integrating them all into a coherent picture of larger and more encompassing truths, and live happily ever after. And while one is at it, kudos to Ken Wilber for developing such a nice integral framework that provides space&room for all perspectives, (partial-)truths and experiences. No need to have a separate-self-bug arisings that says all wrong/evil, but enough space for the whole Net of Indra. Only One Truth is absolute, all others are either partial and true, or complete & false. And nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time. Everything contains at least partial truths.... But hey, I am engaging of tabloid press interpreting of the behaviour of the royals, like in UK & Windsor Castle.... . But despite all of that, I try to stay on the lighter and benevolent side of it all... And I agree with Bazooka Jesus, the royals they have in UK are really boring compared to the happenings in our lovely realm: What kind of great and interesting rank and file, governance and royalty. Sorry, of course the other way round. Royalty, governance and rank and file. But honestly! So that would be the 50ct from yours truly on this hell of a show. Maybe even the roalties can grant the lowly rank and file with there presence and maybe even a comment? If not, and still being busy sorting out the thing, that is of course also completely fine. Take your time. The gladiators at the moment fighting the battle in a way that not too many sentient beings with potential will get their Karma damanged, but are delivering and awesome show. And, you know, yours truly got quite robust over the years in viewing every comment arising in "its" visual field as just more illusion-arising, so there is no hang-over from selling crap at the outside or something like that. ItsALLGOODMAN. And in case the Royalty feels intruded by yours truly invading the privacy of the head of state, please issue an verdict, and yours truly will readily revoke, repent, remorse and so on... I wish him good luck on his path, and godspeed, from all my heart! Water by the River @Sincerity Hope the stylistic tone & content of the post is benevolent and respectful enough. Yours truly really tried! If doesn't find the approval of the guardians of the realm, please let me know.

For the topic of Salvijus and Breakingthewall: Causal States vs. states of void/formlessness and totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). Yours truly is a bit an "Integration aficionado" of different systems, just to get to the deep structures of the different paths up the mountain. Wilbers High Causal is the Abyss of Absolute Nothingness, Cessation, Nirvikalpa. The passing of that often enough opens the door for getting empty enough to maintain constant Nondual Realization in daily life. Or to directly intuit the essence of any manifestation, Nothingness, Infinite Reality. Wilbers Low Causal: The Totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). @Breakingthewall, what the void-state that you describe is I can't tell based just based on your description. It doesn't sound like a black-out like Cessation, doesn't have its effects, and doesn't fit the ladder described above. But the pool of causal states is wide... Descriptions of cessation one can find at Ingram, Thisdell and Frank Yang. Wilber also describes the Whiteout somewhere else, but I don't have that in my files/notes. Here are some quotes and perspectives from Ken Wilbers system on the topic. Wilber normally provides a very good Ontology. Maybe you find that interesting. My personal perspective is on one of my last posts on causal states, which I don't want to repeat here. Excerpt 1: And from Wilber - Sex,Ecology, Spirituality: And what is also very useful: Wilber, Waves, streams, states, and self: An outline of an integral psychology. And Wilber, Religion of the Future. And what both of you probably will really like is Halaw, God is Nothingness, and Wolinsky, "The End of the Game - Deconstructing the Portals to the Absolute". On both books I have written something in this thread: The High Causal States are always easy to spot in descriptions. Passing through these fully empty and impersonal states is in many systems the opening gate to entering the stages Nondual Realization, because states are known where the separate self and any form of Duality just is not. The Nondual Realization/Full Enlightenment (NOT only the Unity with the Visual Field), but also the Impersonal Emptiness of the High Causal States integrated are also easy to spot in any description/system We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche Anything from subtle states to low causal states can be quite a Jungle in systems/descriptions which is to be expected, because here the infinite manifestation begins. not only the dimensions/realties experienced can vary, but the interpretation varies with the conceptual system the subject travels... And: Hic sunt dracones Aliens Maybe that is interesting & useful for you. Wilbers ontological system worked very well for me to orient myself in often very differing systems/descriptions. See for example Lex Hixon, Coming Home. The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions. The variety of the description of paths and states is vast, and the universal deep structures often hard to spot. Selling Water by the River

Do you realize that you have not answered a single one of my questions, that I have asked very specifically (1-4)? Is it a challenge of reading comprehension, or ist it just easier to avoid my questions? Maybe try again? But hey, if you don't have the courtesy to carefully read what I asked, and specifically only answer what is asked in the questions and not something else, please feel free to continue serving as an example of trying to conceptually think ones way to Awakening/Enlightenment via "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" using (admittedly) one of the best conceptual descriptions of Awakening (not Full Enlightenment) done so far, those by Leo. trying to promote these concepts with evangelical passion towards the "others" to be saved and (now its a win-win ): continuing blaming "others" for being to ignorant/biased/not open/whatever/n+1 in an aggresive way, showing the degree of ego-transcendence and peace achieved, or at least toning down the aggresiveness and using nicer language (no more Liars, Raper, Fools, and the like), less [!!!] and less shouting via CAPITAL LETTERS). And while doing that, keeping ones aggression in check, because that will always find its way into the text written. and doing all of that, showing wether "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" really is a path up the mountain peak or into the valley below. A bit off-topic: An interesting research question would be: Is there some kind of threshold where "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" would get really dangerous? Dangerous like doing the promoting of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" at such a smart "intellectual flight level" where it gets really dangerous of seducing those that are themself smart&disciplined enough to reach the mountain summit with good teachings/practices? while at the same time not being at a smartness-flightlevel high enough to understand that "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" trying to think ones way to Enlightenment (instead of practicing/meditating) is exactly not the path to the mountain peak of empty/ impersonal/ nonceptual Awakening/Enlightenment, but down to the valley where Maya smilingly waits with Solipsism, Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity of saving "others"? Lets see if the upcoming preachers of that religion will help clarifying that research question. My personal guess is: No, it can't get dangerous, and the Eros/Growth towards complexity of the Kosmos is larger than the ignorance and illusion Maya generates. But I don't know. But what I am convinced of: On a relative level, the Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity (going up to God- and Messiah-complex like behaviour) can destroy the life of quite many preaching that religion. And that is why yours truly "fights" this "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching". Of course tongue in cheek, not taking the show as anything more than just one of the many spectacular displays of Maya. As always, Bon Voyage.... Yours Truly Selling Water by the River PS: And Razard, sorry, it is not personal. I agree with the last post of Breakingthewall, and really wish you a Bon Voyage and all the best. But the path of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" you promote (instead of for example promoting sitting down and meditating/practicing - which is, oh, actually serious work that takes discipline) falls into the delivery-portfolio of the guy with style & taste in the video below, metaphorically speaking.... The next shortcut up the mountain-peak, that ends quite somehwere else...

True. In the opinion of yours truly, that [bold markings in your post by yours truly] is especially the danger with psychedelic only/mainly paths. To say it in the words of Ken Wilber: To fully cross over to Final Enlightenment/fully waking up, ones Identity must by NOTHING/Nothingness. Fully empty. Fully Impersonal Consciousness. The "Abyss". Separate self fully seen in all subtle elements (I-feeling, I-thouhgts, and very subtle lenses of pereception)/transcended/cut off. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche And that can either be had with working with cessations (or the "more" concentrative path. "During" Cessations where the separate self is not existent, by definition), and seeing the separate self reassemble when getting out of that state, and the then resulting ripening and transcending of the remaining separate self. Or by doing something like the dissolving/transcending of the separate self directly with for example Mahamudra/Dzogchen, which knows cessations, but doesn't give them Ultimate meaning or even preference compared to staying in the Nondual (Simultaneous Mind) States/Awakenings (during daily life when the world appears in the visual field), letting the separate self slowly dissolve, until the Big Bang of Crossing Over or Waking Up: Resulting in the Final Nondual Enlightenment as described by Kalu above, or by Daniel Brown Pointing out the Great Way, Basis Enlightenment: The paths up the mountain are a bit different, and the interpretation of coming down the mountain also has different "coulorings". But the deep structure of the path, and the outcome, is of the same essence. Interesting thing is: Daniel Ingram, Frank Yang and Ken Wilber changed all in the later stages of their practice either to or to include elements of Mahamudra/Dzogchen into their previous practice (Theravada for the first two gentlemen, Zen for Wilber. Both are mainly concentrative meditation heavy paths). Which in the opinion of yours truly is a very interesting fact. Selling Water by the River PS: When having read the letter, throw it in the fire (Bassui)

On a relative level, that concept is wrong, and harmful. I can here that song playing.... Because: If you would have the opposite concept/believe, you would practice. And if done long enough, wake up. If you would be at that level permanently, fully established on the Absolute side of the street, where saying that "you" have no choice (Impersonal Infinite Reality doing its thing, no "you" anywhere to be found), one can let concepts arise along the lines "no free will". Which then wouldn't matter, since "you" are alredy "there". Before, there is still a "you" appearing in your mindstream on the relative side of the street, thinking how to decide and so on.... A very vivid illusion, very well alive and captivating... And thinking that there is no free normally ends up with.... doing what one wants, which is normally not a practice that requires certain effort. Essence of that link: " Practically speaking: Investing time in this question while not knowing what one really is is pointless. It is absolutely pointless. It is a question based on a wrong assumption: That the separate self exists as more than just an illusion. The rope mistaken for a snake. Better investing time in finding out what one really is." That means practice. So, maybe that is helpful... Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River

Yes, fully agree. And the Nothingness is always there (gold), even when the necklage (form) shows up. Made out of it. i just wanted to say that the perspective that the causal can also be considered a state when one wants to describe the temporaray experience of it is also valid. On the concentrative paths, one normally experiences the Nothingness normally first as state, before one can "hold" the awareness of the Nothingness as the essence also of form/visual field in daily life (Nondual Realization). That is why early Buddhism put Nirvana on a pedestal. One can get "hung upon" Emptiness/Nothingness as state. Awareness "OF" Emptiness. Then one has to empty out emptiness. Realizing broadly as movement (Buddhism) fully that Samsara is Nirvana, and emphasizing the Nondual nature of both, and formulating all of that into doctrine (Nagarjuna, Madyamaka) came later. Having Nirodha as state is easier (and can comes before) fully holding the Nondual Realization that essence of the necklace(form) is gold in daily life. But also that happens (realization with Nondual without Cessations before). Mahamudra and Dzogchen for example quite efficiently directly train the Nondual Awakening, and not giving Nirvana/Causal/Cessation states the importance it had in early Buddhism (and partially still has in Theravada). But if having the choice only between either/or (and not integrating both staetments into proper context to make the partial truths of each more encompassing) 1. calling Niroda/Nothingness/Cessation just an temporary imagined state or 2. calling Nothingness/Niroda the Absolute, "the" Infinite Always Already Here Reality, ones True Fully Empty (Nothingness) Impersonal Being of Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind, yours truly also would always chose the 2. perspective. Because its fully empty&impersonal Infinite Consciousness/ Suchness/ Nothingness. And that is what helps making it stable in daily life. Calling it just 1. (and downplaying 2.) can cause a lot of trouble. But if one goes down the Absolute Solipsism and "its all imagined" path probably tends to or even has to that move. But both perspectives contain (partial) truths. As is to be expected, because "at" the Absolute/Infinite level all dualities/language/descriptions/system just collapse. One throws them over board at the right time, not before. Until then, they are very useful. Selling Water by the River