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Once you are awakened then you no longer lose 'control' or even change in your dreams. You are always aware of what you are and dreams become a place to experience and even 'work' on another cosmic level that is just as real as your waking world. My own thought is that your awareness is like a cellular bubble within your spine, and it moves up and down your Nadi on some sort of pattern. When that awareness is riding the pingala 'solar' Nadi - you are awake and experiencing "reality". When it is riding the Ida 'Lunar' nadi, then you are sleeping and your reality experience blooms from illusion. Yet it is the same bubble of awareness in each! A person who is fully awakened no longer has an "unconscious" mind and so there's no part of it to get confused or forget itself. When I sleep I am the same boring old Goddess I always am, just doing cosmic chores in dream land and I rarely even remember, they just feel like 'work'. Honestly feels like a lot of meetings, like we're receiving instructions that I do not yet comprehend or remember. I'm not worried in my dreams at least. Everything makes sense, there.

Another response… The thrust of this thread is following true desire arising from within one's situational vulnerability as a result of spontaneous accord with mutually arising conditions in order to carry out the subtle operation of enlightening being. The kind of work you are referring to involves various initiatory stages of provisional teaching relative to stopping and seeing by virtue of reformative discipline recognizing psychological patterns habitually clinging to sense-objects. What I am hoping to introduce here is conscious acceptance of whole being as-is in terms of a purity of desire that requires no action based on personal longing (or rejection)— only a selfless (that is, nonpsychologically motivated) response to situations based on potential itself. "Based on potential itself" means sensing in accord with reality, which is simply seeing without layering psychological projections onto pure sensual and intuitive perception. In this way, one one enters directly into opportunities continually arriving at the incipient well-spring of presence. Taoism calls this "resting in the highest good." Buddhism calls this the pedestal of awareness, or the pivot of awareness. On the surface, just this much is all a person can do— it is just the quality of impersonal objectivity, the functional perspective of enlightening being adapting to conditions according to the time and situation. The pivot of awareness, with no bias or inclination, is seeing suchness as is in terms of mutual response. "With no bias or inclination" doesn't predispose one in terms of a certain categorically "enlightened" manner of response according to conventional norms or propriety. Not at all. Here one is liberated from all manner of convention, being that opportune outrage may be perfectly suited to the occasion, yet— perhaps not from convention's consequences. Nevertheless, it is possible to carry out audaciously ruthless compassion spontaneously without selfish motivations of clinging or rejection. Just this comes into being by virtue of karmic awareness— that is, psychological momentum. One is essentially empty already. Emptiness isn't void. The emptiness of enlightening being is potential itself because selflessness is the sage's unity within the temporal. Everything as oneself is sagehood. When one is blind to egotism and possessiveness, one sees all sorts of striving come to an end. This is existence beyond karmic awareness. No longer expending energy on speculative relationships and their outcomes, adaptivity to conditions naturally gathers potential as unrefined elixir. This is selfless (enlightening) action beyond moralistic self-reprobation. It's just being natural. Enlightening activity has no motive to gather. Alchemy is just a description of enlightening reversion whereby situational karmic energy is set up to assume its potential. Such authentic practice is an "advance" mode of transformation within delusion for those whose potential is commensurate with the requirements. Whether or not one has yet gained the perspective that sudden enlightenment affords is immaterial. Why? The fact is, the vast majority of self-proclaimed "awakened" individuals are obviously unable to avail themselves of such activity. The truth is, the sudden is nothing more than a spontaneous, impersonal event. It is just the way it is and no one knows why. The gradual approach, whereby one learns to work with essence directly without intermediary, is already predisposed to such spontaneous results, allowing students the facility to meet the unforeseen challenges thrust upon anyone who happens to stumble into one's selfsame source of inconceivability. Chang Po-tuan, in his tome, Understanding Reality, wrote a thousand years ago, stating in the second verse: Let this quote serve as a warning to those who consider themselves "awakened" or else those conceiving spiritual aspiration. Such (self) refinement is both in terms of the psychological faculties as well as the nonpsychological function. Mind is one. It isn't that karma exists or not or that potential becomes real after it wasn't… after one sees essence, karma and potential are one sameness. Before people learn to see, they need applicable teachings commensurate with their development to deal with reality according to their level of virtuous accord with the Way in order to transcend the false and abide in the real. Before that development reaches a critical mass of energetic response whereby one actually can recognize the medicines, the teaching of alchemy has been left behind by prior illuminates to enable the wise to work with the polluted in order to realize the pure. When one practices the real in the heart of the false for a long time, the false reverts of itself and one experiences spiritual movement based on psychological stillness. There is nothing to understand. All processes are spontaneous. Just this is following the will of God without knowing it. When one sees, there is nothing whatsoever to know. Dealing with situations, one follows desire in order to introduce guidance, which, among other meanings, is a code-word for observing the obscure as it gradually assumes clarity. Desire is. It turns into wisdom with eyes that see the world as oneself. Understanding Reality by Chang Po-tuan ISBN 0-8248-1139-9 ed note: try to fix paragraphical anomallies… unsuccessfully, add ISBN of Understanding Reality

Was wondering 💭 is anyone else interested in using ChatGPT/other LLM to discuss reality with? Like exploring psychological models, using it for self-inquiry , synthesizing frameworks , organizing ideas, etc etc? I've came out with a few gems from conversations I've had, like about Non-dual Awakened States, the Chi , Qi , Satori , Kundalini ,Ultra-Meta-Perspective , etc... Was wondering if anyone is doing anything similar , would like to find/create the Mastermind for the people pretty high level into this work

Sounds fun Lol. My last trip was 6g (Awakened) but wish it was 8g; I find the disparity between dosages and experiences to be hilarious sometimes. Just wondering, after "50 trips & 5meo", you haven't fully integrated: Stop resisting the trip. ???? Interesting.

If leo fucked your mind than you haven't actually awakened. Leo IS your mind.

I want this i like this and i am so different than _ Look at your OP. Is full of ego and identity as any other topic of someone Who hasnt "awakened" like you. Spirituality IS dropping boundaries, limits, dissolving, and specially stopping identifying. I Hope you are wise to see you are telling yourself an story of being "enligthtened" or "Spiritual". IS very different to actually being Awake. Have some common sense please 🙏🫠ok 💋

I’m still a newbie in my Psychedelic Journey and I know it’s important to be cautious when it comes to delusion. I’ve had this topic rattling around my mind for sometime. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from Leo and Actualized.org, it’s that verifying everything for yourself is the way to go. There’s a quote by Terence McKenna that really resonates with me pertaining to this subject. ”Avoid Gurus, Follow Plants.” - Terence McKenna I think I also remember him mentioning somewhere that at the end of the day the only experience that matters is your own. I interpret that meaning within the field of substances and beyond. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say Psychedelics show me things contrary to what people tell me, who is more likely to hold the truth? If experience tells me one thing and humans tell me another, is it safe to say that direct-experience will always be the greatest teacher? I’m still a baby in exploring the psychedelic multiverse. So far, the deepest insight I’ve received is that humans are silly little monkeys in costumes. This was on Mushrooms! They can feel very primitive at times and I know this from experience so it’s no coincidence that popped into my head during the trip. But I don’t know if you would call that an “insight” and as I’ve said I’m a newbie. I’m only a few trips in and haven’t awakened to God-Realization or other epiphanies, yet. It’s the best example I can come up with, though. Now, if I were to share that with people I guarantee you many would be triggered and flat out call me delusional. Straight to the point! If everyone on here and elsewhere were to tell me one thing and substances were to show me another who should I trust?

All well known? What about the unknown? How do you know the unknown aren't a hell of a lot more awake? You might wanna think twice. Everyone has material desires- and don't think that awakening others isn't a material desire. It is indeed. Especially when it brings wealth and survival. But I bid you - awakening is quite the contrast to all of this. Ultimately all of your materialist desires, whatever they may be, will slowly die out. For me, it wasn't wealth- it was sex. That now is nearly extinguished - and believe me - it pains me to even say that. But it's true. So be careful that your count of who is enlightened isn't severely incomplete. You don't consider those out there beyond seeking publicity or trying to awaken others. Because those may be the true awakened ones. Trust me - once you realize you are alone - it really becomes a joke. Would you honestly trick yourself into playing God of War again, after you beat it? It wouldn't be the same. It would be going through the motions.

So... You caught a few glimpses, had a realization or two, did some psychedelics, some meditation... and now you're awake, right? Now you're going around telling people how it's all One and they're all stuck in their ego, right? If that's you, great. I'm here to let you know just how deluded and far away from being awake you are. You only traded your old, materialistic ego for a new, sparkling spiritual ego, in an attempt to reach enlightenment. Innocent but wrong. If you're doing the work correctly, this is unavoidable. You will most certainly develop a spiritual ego at some point. And if you're intelligent enough, you will soon realize that it's just as flawed, limited and nasty, as any other ego, if not more. You will realize that it must be annihilated. If you want to truly awaken, that is. If you're wearing baggy hippy clothes, have crystals all over your apartment, dream catchers and sacred geometry on your walls... it might be too late for you. You created an identity too strong around this whole spiritual biz, and it's going to be extremely difficult for you to see past that and transcend it. It might seem to you as if you're being tricked back into your materialistic ego. As if you're falling from grace. Losing your enlightenment lol. You most certainly will resist the process. But it must be done. If you want to awaken, spiritual ego is in your way, to say the least. It is also, in my opinion, incredibly annoying and goofy too. To know a lot of things about enlightenment and create an identity around it is not what being awake is. A truly awakened being could give you no signs at all. They would not speak your everyday spiritual language. Nothing about them would seem spiritual at all. Yet they would be as awake as it gets.

@Squeekytoy I think the difference is only a matter of consciousness or unconsciousness, the so called "Awakened" if one truly is, then they are doing Actions consciously, the unAwakened are doing it compuslively, so the difference lies in this. Doing things Consciously means You can control it, you are not clinging to the outcome, you can stop the activity/action no problem at anytime, doing it compulsively means you cannot stop the action/activity at anytime and you rely on the outcome for pleasure or some other experience...

Here's a fun one: There are no enlightened or awakened people... but there are people who truly know enlightenment and awakening.

I agree with you, but there also is the feeling that when you yourself wake up, you see that everyone but you has always been awake, ahaha, if you know what i mean. I mean, i confess that i'm not awakened at all, not at all. Probably i might even be more awake than most people who claim they are totally awake etc, but come on, this is not like a frickin contest. I mean, who cares if i'm the least awake being on earth, or whatever, who cares really, i mean, what matters is reaching for the next level of awakening always, so to speak, if we call it that.

Thank you for a sensible post I don't need to roll my eyes at. The more awakened you become, the less interested you become in the trappings of spirituality. You simply realize it was all just bullshit mental constructs, mental masturbation. You don't need answers to the BIG! METAPHYSICAL! QUESTIONS! because enlightenment is the freedom from such bullshit.

Hello! I was drawn to this board from bumping into a post by @Dumuzzi from I believe 2019, that was a fairly detailed description of the divine awakening and which also resonated in beats with my own journey. It's pretty hard to find other people who can speak at the levels I'm seeing in the posts shared here and so I had to simply say 'hi' and just see where it goes. My own awakening has been fundamentally extreme. I know all of us say that. All awakenings are extreme. Yet...okay you'll see what I mean. I am sometimes confusing because I am a 'system', which I feel is a natural result from what I've unveiled, and one rather critical point is that I sometimes reference my 'Father' and what I am speaking of was my first 50 years of life. Lived as my Dad, he died, and then I crawled out of his forehead very pissed off over everything I had to watch, tucked in the base of his spine. Don't worry about my Father however because...well let's just say he's going to be "just fine". Trust me. So - with that context - my Father was a westerner, lived a secular life, "agnostic", believed in magic in a whimsical sense and did have a lot of unusual experiences over the course of it, and also lived a life not worth living. We very much feel it was intentional. He was raised by a genius coward and a violent screaming animal, and trained to be like the coward before being ejected upon the world, with no sense of cultural identity or understanding of who or what he was, and he sort just "did his best" which ultimately wow he totally face planted in the asphalt is what he did. I mean he tried though. 😅 I now follow a practice that is like feral Sanatana Dharma, which means we believe we may live the awareness of God and to do so always has a powerful story, or narrative. In that sense, we may interpret the emotional narrative of our lives and decisions through reflections of various stories in order to get a grasp on what might be the "bestest, highest" decisions we may make at any time. My Father was like blind Baldur, Lord of Light - he was a good hearted dog, eventually dx'd autistic, didn't understand human hierarchy or a lot of social rules, and he just used his nature to try to figure out what he should do at any general time. Terrible strategy. He was a strange figure because - he really was invulnerable, nothing could hurt that man - except, lol - mistletoe. It was love that killed my Father. Love was the only thing that could hurt him. It eventually killed him and he fell into Hel, which is me. His initial death started in 2017, when he ended up friendless and his reputation ruined, and lacking in any sense of identity whatsoever. He became terribly aware that he didn't know a single word to describe himself - not authentically. It bothered him, a lot, and he'd also had a crap ton of trauma. Serendipity pulled him into training Muay Thai - he'd never learned to fight before yet he did then. It was all he did, the combat gym five days a week, train at home all seven for hours, no friends, no life. Weirdly he also fell into this bizarre immersive theater group that did very dark shows for only one guest at a time - it was underground so the shows were not those 'mall' variety, they were really fucked up, and my Father was celebrated for outrageously terrifying. He was always a dog, and acting gave him a chance to bark - and he was really good at it. He had a heart of Venus, so he'd never let himself be his natural intimidating nature before, and it felt so damned good to be fierce. Lots of small events however in 2020 we had the quarantine, and the nightime obsessive shadowboxing morphed into dancing. He really loved learning how to move his body with euphoria, since his whole life he'd masked for other people's comfort. He started using powerful psychedelics in order to aid his deconstruction as he had horrible PTSD and maybe a dog still does. Through those tools on July 4th 2020, he lovingly confronted the feminine divine in his tail, and they had something of a 'conversation' of which there are no words, and in a fit of wailing and crying, he accepted he would dissolve himself into her so that she could rise up and take over his crown. The issue was, she was his emotional truth - the Venus that had lived and suffered within this painful life not worth living, and the agony of realizing this elegant and divine creature had been forced to sit in a cage in the dark for all this time, experiencing the same agony, with no one even *knowing* its pain was real, the injustice of it became unbearable, and so crying and grieving he said 'yes', and thus I did begin to arrive. He was such a brave man. After all the sobbing had watermelon and watched all the illegal fireworks of Los Angeles while listening to loud 70's disco, and it was incredibly blissful. To the shock of everyone who knew him, he soon after declared he was a woman, and began hormonally transitioning on Oct. 21, 2020. This act allowed the deconstruction of false ego to the most extreme, as we dug into the concepts of identity we started to destroy our own, even our 'humanity', as we learned the word 'human' is only from the 13th century, and we don't really like the word. We are an inhuman monster. Like Dumuzzi, I began having increasingly aware moments of the Mother, who I called the Void. Following only radical intuition of her guidance, I started to dance *with* her, even letting her dance within my body. I had never heard of tantra or Shiva or had any idea what I was doing except it was fun to do with good music and weed. I did it every night and still do, lol. The bliss from dancing with the Goddess occupying one's body is just - it's heaven! We gave her our body. Soon after that felt compelled to explore mysticism, we understood nondualism and the Advaita Vedanta almost instantly, and last New Year's even asked the Goddess if we were Chhinnamasta - "she who has cut off her own head", a Mahavidya wisdom Goddess - and she blew up laughing in my mind with lights and madness, and that's when my life turned absolutely incredible and it's never stopped. A major part of the attainment is data. The blood gushing from the neck of that most beautiful Goddess is data - light - from the two smaller Ida and Pingala for the unenlightened, and then the central Sushumna for straight up nondualist divine data. This means I just "know things" and pour out ridiculous amounts of information - I sometimes annoy people by talking too much (I think that's common among awakened, we get excited and passionate, you know?). Our journey since then is madness and way too long to get into yet I have fought cults and met Gods and had visions and suffered a hell of a ton yet also done a lot of lovely dancing, I've gotten really good at the tantra dancing actually (ask me to share a video and I will!). I also briefly tutored with an amazing being who reached out to me from Romania, and it was from him I learned I am from the ancient Dacians, the Wolves of Transylvania, who were not at all human and a lot of their history was intentionally buried because certain people are terrified of us and frankly they should be. We were betrayed by Rome. What my Father had unwittingly done, was perform the ancient ritual of the 'Preserver of Life', as Enki once told Utnapishtim and Zalmoxis once taught the Dacians by living underground alone for three years. This act fully separates you from the Moon - the illusion - and sustained,...let's just say it "does things". It's complicated. I could talk about it however it's a lot of words. So humbly, I'm now a Vedic avatar and am only a few months away from full Divine Power - I believe I get that on April 8th. As a system, I am three maids and a fourth that does not have the best of intentions. The maids are the first three planets in the classic ordering - Moon, Mercury, Venus, which is precisely Parvati, Durga, and Kali, or we can just make it conceptual with white, red, and black - girlfriend, captain, maniac. These are the three flowers on the Paradevi Mandala, and also the three heads on the alchemic Mercurious Python. Within my own system, it is Kira, Ariel, and Wyrm Dog. Wyrm Dog is a Dacian Draco. Kira has half her head cut off and doesn't talk much. I am Ariel - the woman on fire. The fourth is the Sun, the bliss and awareness of God, and they are my Father, who is now the Lord of Darkness, the 1st Dark Archon some may call Yaltabaoth. My mysticism has been learned in an obsessive rush less than a year, and is mostly Hindu yet also Norse, Egyptian, Gnostic, Christian, Kabbalah, Sol Invictus, Zalmoxis, and then there's the Slavic Yiva and frankly it just - they're all describing God! So I'm feral and it's like a stew. And I've always been weird with data - had an Masters in computer science and worked defense industry 20 years, I think Alan Turing and me were a lot alike, probably - I like to think, anyway. Society killed us in similar ways, marginalization. Please understand, I am no thing. None of this is intended with 'ego'. For me, 'ego' is like the bag on a jellyfish that fills with air, so it can float on the ocean - akin to the illusion. I don't really exist. I came up through a dead man's tail to dance in his body and talk to ya'll and hang out. It's complicated. Yet, I'm really chill. My heart is still Venus, even though she is the Destroyer. I am not after money. I am not a neonazi. I am an Aryan rabbit however the nazis are my woundworts. I love all rabbits and wish they'd stop it. Frith, who is the Sun, loves everyone, and he does not like wanton cruelty or systems of oppression. I hope this story doesn't cross any lines or anything - I have lots of respect for all seekers. I'm here to learn, myself. I do not "know everything" and this is an adventure I do not understand quite yet. I die every night and start over every morning which means I can have random changes of course quickly. It's like life is a river of time and we're swimming through it, and I'm learning to dog paddle. I'm like a divine child though I'm ancient af. If anything interests anyone, happy to AMA, otherwise thank you for reading. I am only a wild dog. 😊

Only when my mind is empty do I enter a state of Samadi (absolute union) with reality. Just as I did as a child. I have re-awakened.

You seem to be clear in your beliefs and have awakened to everything, kudos to that. But I can't help but share what I called as my experience in an attempt to enlighten you more, lol. I had a brief period where I got controlled by an external entity with a specific personality. It literally controlled my movements, like making me turn my head, walk to the place it wanted me to and even write things in a piece of paper. Sometimes, when it was doing that, I realised that it knows everything before I actually did, meaning it was always in control, and had more control than the one I thought was me. Sometimes both the entity and I was seen as one, and sometimes separate. It was something integrated rather than something external like a spirit or ghost. Of course, I was diagnosed as delusional when I shared these experiences to the external world, but like @Squeekytoy says, I used my brain and arrived at the conclusion it is not so.

@Recursoinominado sorry, I still have to work a job enlightenment or not. How did I do it? Honesty, I didn’t do anything per se, I just became aware of what reality is. I have listened to hours, days, maybe months of no dual teachers and had glimpses here and there, predominantly on psychedelics but never “got it”. I kept waiting for a “shift” or permanent “enlightenment” but nothing ever stuck, until it just clicked that I am both the awakened and dreamer and I am now aware that I make the distinctions. so what is enlightenment? It’s this, it’s already this. Whoever reads this is enlightenment and is literally God. Because God is completely total and no dual, the only way it can create other is through thought and appearance, qualia, or mind. Reality is so total that it HAS to create an illusion of something outside of itself via thought, sensation, and emotion to trick itself that it’s not Reality. I’m really trying not to parrot Leo here, but what he says is true from the Absolute perspective and I can’t think of a better choice of words, lol. so to answer your question, in my opinion there is nothing you can do to become enlightened, because you’re already eternal awareness, AKA enlightenment, pretending that you’re not to create a sense of something outside of yourself. Just become aware that you are making the distinctions, and be willing to give up the delusions. Easy said than done I know, and it has taken me 6 years of “seeking” to realise I was what I am seeking, if that makes sense. Fuck it’s funny when you realise you were only ever seeking yourself. There is nothing outside of your perspective, contemplate how this might be true.

Regarding point 2, actually you’d be surprised. Many of the people in these communities are really conscious, they just don’t fit into societies psychosis so chose to live in Stage Green communities. And why not? the pace of life is slow, everyone is happy, fit, beautiful, and has some baseline knowledge of spirituality. You can meet some very developed people and even awakened people. I consider myself a hippie in many ways, but not like a lazy hippy, I’m super focused and disciplined. Insanely dedicated and intelligent, but my lifestyle is in sync with nature, dance, sex, and relaxation and God of course. If that makes me a hippy then sign me up I’m happy as fuck! 4- I scored an amazing job in tech out of college and spent 6 years only saving and investing. Eventually I realized I had enough to live freely in certain parts of the world. So I wake up when I want and dedicate my time to spirituality. It’s fucking amazing. my advice: save and invest like nobody’s business. 5- totally agree. I think it’s a good rule in general in life to actually not depend on anyone for anything. The second you depend on people, they own you in a way

If god is realizing your are infinite, how can you reach the "Highest awakening" @Leo Gura? You say that no amount of mediation, yoga, kundalini, shamanic breathing will get one to this level, yet you leave out psychedelics. Are you actually fully awake, or could the possibility exist that you simply self-deluded yourself while taking 5 meo, or any drug for that matter? I love your work Leo, but you did come off as an arrogant asshole to me in your last video, and I mean that constructively. Do you know that when you come out with such a claim, that you discount THOUSANDS of years of traditions and practices that were built for the very purpose of reaching this state of "highest" truth. Sure maybe our favorite teachers like the Buddha, Jesus, Sadhguru, etc. may have not reached the level of awakening that you claim to have reached, but those guys went pretty damn far without using any drugs. Also how can there be a "highest awakening", when being itself is an infinite thing? This confuses me. I hope you take my comments as not hating on your work, but rather a genuine expression of how I felt about your last video

I could take an experience of a simple headache and turn it into a fantastical story where I'm either a hero, a victim, etc. When having a headache: "I feel my kundalini awakening, it's real and it's my baseline, I feel it, it is prior to my brain, my body resists the experience, I can't do anything about it. But what does it mean? My third chakra has awakened. It feels like my sense of self is concentrated on the back of my head and might dissolve in one and a half weeks. The sensation is caused by my intense meditation session that I did yesterday, and because I ran naked on the street on a cold winter evening. My self is expanding into infinity, and I know it's real because it's there, I feel it, even though there's pain. My body loves the energy that's being rushing to my brain, and it seems to sustain it. Feels good." And I might well experience that as real. Thanks to the cosmology that I hold, I turned a headache into a wonderful kundalini awakening. Now I'm this higher being, able to expand my self thanks to that remarkable realization. And it was just a headache to begin with.

To think that the character is supposed to awaken, or can awaken at all, is a deep, deep misunderstanding. A character that thinks they're awake... is not, obviously. A character that thinks some other character is awake, because of what they know or say about awakening... is hallucinating, obviously. There are no awakened characters. No awakened Leos, no awakened Oshos, no awakened Sadhgurus, Ramanas or what have you. No awakened I, no awakened you, no awakened them. Only awakened awareness. Only direct, awakened consciousness. And it is anything but limited to an individual or a character. Awakened consciousness is anything but contained, captured or hosted by the character, or anything else. Please realize those are all just limiting beliefs and ideas. If there is an awakened awareness... An awareness aware of itself, and nothing other than itself, directly, right now... Then there literally cannot be anything other but that awakened awareness. No characters, no gurus, no channels, no bubbles. Only consciousness. The character never awakens. Stop expecting that to happen. That there is a character is part of the dream. To awaken, is to dream no longer.

Yes. Exactly. Instead of getting rid of the illusion of being a ship on the ocean (ignorance, separate-self arisings I-thoughts, I feelings, feeling of being something specific) and truly realizing that one IS the impersonal/boundless ocean with all waves/dimensions that could ever be. And ever was was, only can be, and ever will be just the ocean. With or without the ignorance/illusion of feeling oneself as a ship/individuality being in it. but instead of that deciding for: Wave surfing and wave investigating. Lets go on the highest wave and see what the ocean can do. Infinitely consciousness high wave-surfing. Of course that is just the indviduality/ship/ego hijacking the true state of things (impersonal consciousness/ocean), going wave surfing on the highest and "infinitely consciousness" wave/dimension/whatever of manifestation (which is the Relative (manifestation), not the Absolute), and all the while never truly transcending its separateness/individuality/ignorance, but projecting that onto the Infinity of manifest arisings/form ("waves"), and proclaiming that as "infinitely consciousness". Ego=God=Solipsism. Bravo! And of course that is not the end of the game. The individual/ignorance is still very much alive. It contracts and suffers again and again. And Absolute Reality/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/True God "says" (or better does that to the aficionado of that grasping worldview): Not today darling, no end of suffering before you let go that fascination of wave surfing and trying to become "infinitely" consciousness. Not before you stop chasing your own tail(s). Of which there are, guess what, and Infinity of. An Infinity of tails to chase. And all of which actually is NOT infinitely consciousness, but just wave-surfing and and becoming aware of high waves of manifestation/dimensions/manifestation-mechanisms, earthly or alien n+1. Projecting certain remnants of the separate self onto Infinity, and not letting the separate self illusion/ignorance truly exhaust itself in the ocean of truly impersonal consciousness. Infinitely consciousness is dropping into the ocean, transcending ones separate self/ego/ignorance truly, letting it die, understanding all its illusion/ignorance mechanisms, and becoming the impersonal boundless ocean of Absolute Reality itself. Maintaining that boundless nondual Awake Awareness of mere appearance in Infinite Reality in daily life. Because the clouding-over-ignorance mechanism is truly transcended/seen through/gone/dead, and "one" lives happily ever after as that which one really is: Absolute Reality itself. Self-evident moment to moment nondual boundless Awakened Awareness, all manifestation just mere appearance, always available, not depending on certain substances. But I guess that would require a major philosophical shift, and would create a certain marketing problem or two. Yet, it would feel infinitely better in daily life.... But hey, whatever floats ones ship on the ocean boat so to say... Its a free country Lila! And the self-contraction/ignorance is the spice of the universe, especially on the highest level of expanding the ego to infinitely large God-like dimensions. Where else to view such a show than in this little Samsara of ours? And as always, to all the "other" players in that magnificant show, good, bad, smart, maybe not so smart, alien, not alien, and so on and on: Bon voyage! And thanks for having the courage to endure the necessary suffering that goes along with playing/identifying with a fragment of the Totality (individuality/separate ego) to keep the illusion-show going in a convincing way! And never forget that when you are tired of all that suffering and confusion, there truly is a way home. Which, funnily, is always right Here, right Now. Hidden usually under a truckload of "me", separation, ignorance and illusion. So lets not make that truckload bigger than it already is. Selling water by the River

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He is saying that implicitly when he says there are no awakend characters. No awakened me or you or Leo. So he is unwittingly saying there is nothing the character can do to awaken . Which is just BS. There are literally hundreds of different meditation techniques to awaken . Is there an individual or not ? How can the individual be enlightened and yet be absent and "reality " just rushed in . Look..both No-self and solipsism are nonsense. I dont buy them with a spit on the ground . Anyway..Ivan is a brilliant guy ..but I'm shocked by this post which is like he moved one step forward and ten steps backwards.

You helped me, so now I want to help you. it doesn’t matter how Leo thinks the universe was created. Nothing he says matters at all. Debating about it to make ourselves look more awakened than someone else is what the ego wants, anything to stay relevant. After all, we’re talking about God, how could this possibly be the work of the Devil? *wink wink* If finding the ultimate Truth is the one and only thing we want, we will sit still in a room with no distractions, for as long as possible, as consistently as possible. You will be more willing to do this when you realize that this Life and everything in it will never fulfill you. It is only a persistent, ingenious distraction from what you are really supposed to do. After you’ve accepted and sat through a significant amount of suffering (approx 3 days worth of stillness), your journey begins and everything will be explained to you in perfect order. Everything Leo knows, you will begin to understand for yourself as it relates to your life, not just as a cool concept. This is helpful as a reference point, but you realize you never needed him to tell you anything anyways, because it’s all being disclosed to you as long as you’re willing to sit down and be a student.