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English is not my first language. Read only the bold text for a general idea. Fact/Force No 1: Self Actualization feels like the one true thing, the path to follow, the source of meaning and value to oneself and to all existence. It is the highest Maslow need and, as highly developed individuals, we feel attracted to pursue it Fact/Force No 2: Self actualization is threatening to the ego and constantly attacks it, since you can think and experiment the fact that the ego is a blatant illusion and it is somehow funny how we keep doing it even though its clearly ridiculous. The ego is extremely potent after all these years of conditioning and is capable of producing really horrible sensations and feelings that you are about to lose your mind/suicide, and in losing your mind you will never be able to self actualize any further. Therefore, there is an opposing force to self actualization work. Situation: Right now, I'm in a sensitive moment, living in another city, doing hard work, far from my friends and family, with not much comfort/money (it is temporary and I will be back in my city in one week, so it's not like I need to stop and go back to work on the previous levels of Maslow's needs, because I honestly got all that working already). Still, I kept a high load of self-development work, taking advantage of this new moment that I'm living, and therefore force No 2 is starting to get way too intense. The discussion: What should a self-actualizing individual do in this moment? Actively decide to numb down the SA work for a week or two and then resume it? Keep hammering it because the ego suffering is actually good to shatter the illusion even though it feels really bad? Is there a strategy/system to manage the balance between the two forces? I need some light from this brilliant community. Thanks for the insights =)

In the book truth vs falsehood (on leo's book list also a must read in my opinion) david hawkins talks about using muscle testing to determine truth from falsehood, you can also than pinpoint where on the universal scale of consciousness ( A scale from 1 to 1000 with the highest 10000 being enlightened avatars like the buddah, jesus christ etc, the lowest being around 10 the level of severe depression commonly followed by suicide) a person's energy is. I thought it would be interesting, to test a bunch of spiritual teachers on this scale. Anything below 200 is considered ultimately destructive (means your worse of being exposed to them to varying degrees) anything above 200 is seen as supportive of life and beneficial to all. Using testing around 70-80% of the worlds population is seen to be below 200 so it is uncommon to be over this. - Leo gura: Leo calibrated at 310 this is the level of willingness the life view is hopeful and god view is inspiring. This is a very good level for a teacher to be at it means they have overcome inner resistance and are willing to participate in life. This means actualized.org is a positive force on it's audience and generally beneficial to all who use it. -Byron Katie: calibrates at 565 the level of unconditional love, at this level love and compassion, people at this level feel near constant joy and the world is seen as an expression of love and divinity. This is the level to aspire to in a lifetime. Another interesting thing to note is the amount of people who drop down into pride ( around 180 level feeling of superiority over others) after making spiritual advances it's easy to think of yourself as special given the feedback from the outside world, which is a huge cause of a drop in consciousness for people, back to the level of pride. Below is a list of teachers with a note able drop. -Deepak Chopra - Deepak calibrates at 185 the level of pride. At this level it generally feels good and is socially encouraged, but people at pride are still vulnerable because a change in external conditions can drop them down to fear anger etc. Because of the calibration below 200 they are seen as someone to avoid. - Eckhart tolle- Eckhart calibrates at 265 the level of neutrality. At this level life view is generally neutral, a feeling of whatever happens ill be fine. The interesting thing is eckhart has dropped from 510 at the level of unconditional love, to 265. May possibly be attributed to the constant media presence/fame around him?

@Shan I haven't reduced my very high anxiety to anything close to the ideal level but I feel it improving now. In the past I've had panic attacks where I hyperventilate for 30 mins straight and have had a few times where I frantically search the Internet on methods for suicide. The best thing I think you can do is mindful suffering. Suffering which is done mindfully is best done when you're meditating or something. Being mindful of suffering in your day to day life is hard unless you're consciousness is already high enough to try to be. Yesterday I was meditating for 1hr for example, and I was trying to maintain most of my posture. In my mine came up these thoughts "I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape.... It hurts It hurts It hurts.." but through meditation you force both your conscious and subconscious mind to react differently to pain. There were times yesterday when my conscious mind was trying to be okay and accepting the pain, realising that a sensation in your consciousness is neither inherently good or bad. But despite this my subconscious mind was in overdrive, providing so much resistance. But throughout the session my resistance was dissolving as mindfulness increased. Meditation when done right is good for general happiness and anxiety. You're confronting your bodies fight or flight response "I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape" and are dissolving it. Your anxiety will also start to fade as you pay attention deeply to what this "I" that wants to escape is. The way I see it, you can conceptualise anxiety as an over the top reaction to some "negative" circumstance. And you want to rewire those reactions.

I know “I’m only 23” but right now it feels like all the shit in my life is just hitting the fan and I just feel so absolutely demoralized about my future and like I’m not prepared enough internally/psychologically to turn things around. Still living at home with no real friends at this point at a dead end part time job with no support system at all but more importantly, no solid internal development, I just found out yesterday from my car insurance company raised my rates again for an accident that involved me getting t-boned from a guy blowing a stop sign and because the guy didn’t pick up the phone after I filed the claim on him to accept liability they actually dropped the claim, stopped pursuing him, and aren’t going to coverage about $5000 minimum if I’m lucky worth of damages. It just feels like my life is just in this melting pot and culmination mode of endless misery and hopelessness that’s destined for me and all the mistakes I’ve ever made are coming to haunt me and will to me being just another average person that accomplishes nothing. Where there’s no background of sense of self-acceptance, self-esteem, how I was never good enough to my parents and how they coddled me with giving me all the wrong forms of help when I was younger and how stupid I was bullshitting around. I struggle to be concrete on my life purpose through the course after taking it 3+ times because it’s so emotionally hard when you have so much fear about how you can’t subsist which leads to being motivated from this place of aggression and anger which is really more of a reaction from this deep sense of hurt. I just don’t know how I can get myself out of this. I grew up in a emotionally and psychologically unstable family where screaming and yelling and suicide threats by my mom and yelling about money was the norm at my house, I struggled in high school from ADHD and from struggling socially and emotionally from the toxic parenting I got at home so I didn’t get to even get to taste some sort of freedom in what would’ve been “the college experience”. I have a terrible relationship with the family I live with now (my Dad) because I’m treated like I just my mentally unstable mom and how I’m some loser that needs to work 80 hours a week. I have no friends to move out with or anything. I feel resistance to just apply for a job here in San Francisco, because 1. I can’t afford to live here, 2. I hate living here in this claustrophobic neurotic human zoo, 3. Working these jobs, I’m sometimes in the bathroom just in tears because I’m faced with ‘this all I can fucking do and I don’t know what I actually can do.’ Every time I get another job like this (some low end job) I just get used to it and numb to it until I stop being numb to it and then I sabotage it by coming in late in stuff because deep down I’m reacting to how much I resent and despise hate with a very visceral hate how much I’m wasting my life in yet I keep getting caught in this catch 22. It feels like yes, life is a maze, this thing is fucking rigged against me to lose and go for fucking cheese, I don’t want cheese, I know the goal, but I’m not good enough in the achieve that goal and I can’t just ask 99.9999999% of people for help on this issue because they want cheese and I don’t want cheese. In yet, I’m not good enough nor prepared to get out of here.

This is related to Leo's blog post on Understanding Psychosis- https://www.actualized.org/insights/understanding-psychosis I had 3 psychotic episodes. I am mentally ill. It started after I started doing meditation. The first episode was after 3 months of 20 minutes of meditation daily. The second episode was after 5 months of the first episode. The third episode was 5 months after the third episode. I had no hallucinations but I was misinterpreting things radically. I thought everybody wanted to kill me. ( Maybe thats because I have a history of being bullied in childhood.) In the first episode I was thinking that God wanted to kill me for all my sins. And I felt a constant terror in my body to the point that I couldn't sleep even holding my parents' hands. I was taken to a psychic who helped me. In the second episode I thought that I was trasported to an alternate reality(I was wrong), I jumped in to a pond to commit suicide, I was unable to sleep for over a week, and I felt like my higher self was being expressed through me. I was taken to the psychiatric hospital but they did not medicate me thinking that I was just pretending because I was in the higher self mode. In the third episode I could not sleep(insomnia which may be caused by my 20 minutes of meditation), I again felt like my higher self was being expressed through me. This time too I was taken to a psychiatric hospital and they medicated me and diagnosed me BPAD with Psychosis and gave me medication. But now whenever I try to meditate now I am unable to do it. I also feel depressed most of the times inspite of 3 anti-psychotics and 2 anti-depressants. I feel headache on the top of my head. Life feels hopeless. As Leo said- "Doctors will often just think of you as crazy and load you up on drugs, making the situation much worse.", Doctors infact think me as crazy and have loaded me up with medicines. When I suggested to the psychologist that they need to fix the root problem which is my childhood trauma of being bullied ,they said I am just depressed and I need to do more activities to overcome my depression. I mean they give no importance to emotional healing. I feel lost when I can't even rely on the professionals. please give your opinions and advice. Thank you!!

@Leo Gura Great response from Leo. Although I don't know if easing off the medication is the right approach as they could literally save your life (stop suicide). But I'm in 2 minds with this. @Anirban657 I'm sorry to hear this ♥️ I also believe that your condition is due to repressed trauma. I've recently started seeing a private therapist who offers the humanistic approach to therapy and so far it's amazing. I highly recommend. I pay for it, it's worth every penny. Could you have a scan online? Also (as much as possible)... * Eat healthily * Exercise regularly * Be out in nature regularly * Try and sleep well if you can (a good routine) Sending you so much love ♥️

Yeah you're right. Sometimes I have some "normal" moments, but it's very rare. I usually think it's an awakening, when in fact it's just simple lack of anxiety, or normal state of being. I didn't have time to read your book recommendation, but I skipped through the pages and I got the essence. I tried the method where you ask your body "yes" or "no", it said I have no problems and trapped emotions. Then I asked about the Heart Wall and it said yes. It's not a hidden Heart Wall though, so I think my subconscious is ready to let go of some things? I asked if it's ready then it would say no then yes and no and yes again. And so forth. What does that mean? I think it goes like this: I show too much love, even if it's just friendly admiration and respect towards him. I'm a very passionate being so I might go over the top. He has some wounds, perceives it as me being dependent on him. I sense his anger, I have some wounds regarding males being angry so I try to overcompensate, thus being even more pushy and suffocating, but this time also fearful and maybe desperate for forgiveness and an answer. He gets distant, doesn't want to talk. Says he only talks when it's necessary and that he has nothing to say. It goes like this for a few days, he's getting more nervous, I get more anxious, the pressure between us grows. I keep pursuing him and asking what's wrong. He says nothing, he's hard to contact via social media and all, responds in 2 word sentences, usually in an irritated tone. He doesn't want to hurt me because he cares for me, but his fear of commitment (even for a loyal friendship, not necessarily relationship) eats him inside - notice the inner conflict between his love for me and his desire for freedom. Then that is a period when he tends to forget the real me, and sees me as desperate and kinda retarded. The tension in me grows, I get angry, I break off all ties and stop talking to him. But after a few hours I talk to him again to calm him down that everything is ok and I need space (again, some deep unconscious fear of losing people if they commit suicide because of me - source of fear yet unknown, but maybe the emotional abuse of a masochistic relative in childhood). I make sure he will be safe, even though I know he's probably ok. I tell him to give me space, to leave me alone for a few months but I tell him that he can write if he has important problems that I can help with. Then I'm calm but sad, feel some grief, especially in my lungs and I breathe very badly for a few days, very bad chest pain. Then everything in my life goes well, I'm happy. Then after some time I miss him and I wonder if he misses me too. I get depressed. Then he writes to me because he was feeling the same grief. We return to each other, have fun, feel good, share experiences of things that happened when we both were away, feel strong connection and he shows tons of love and admiration for me. Then cycle repeats. It has repeated like 10 times now, and I've only known him for about 3 years. That's some things based on my observation. It was really liberating to see things from perspective and write it down like this. It's true. Thanks. Yeah you're right. I do think Shin is amazingly helpful, but things are far more complicated than that. I just didn't share more info about my friendship because I didn't want to argue and complicate. But notice the dynamic I illustrated for Mu. It's written in a very objective manner. You cannot say one friend is bad or another is good. It just sort of happens out of fears, wounds, bad habits, complex dynamics, pressures. Strangely enough, even the most toxic people can have very good caring hearts. That's why it's hard to let go of him. I think the ultimate solution is to detach from the situation, even if it keeps happening in the background. I think of it as admiring a person from distance. The simple feeling of it is blissful. Especially cause Shin and others didn't consider one thing: that the love between me and my friend isn't necessarily egoic stage orange trading system type of love, but a holistic love that takes on many forms. One based on being. None of us is attached to "owning" or "keeping" the other person. It's almost like an very unhealthy manifestation of turquoise love, while the two persons involved are stuck in orange-green mentality and lifestyle because of the circumstances (society expectations) and ego-desires. Or maybe there's no circumstance yet to express it? But it's there. There can be any label on our relation to each other, yet we feel and express the same things. We were both trying to describe to each other the feelings we hold for the other many times, but it's really hard to explain. It's like the other person is the most fragile and important thing for one person, yet no one has the intention to keep the other person caged. We've been trying to find all kinds of solutions to express these strange emotions in the safest environment possible, so we tried dating (it seemed like being loyal would provide safety), then dating seemed very orange and possessive so we moved to friendship, but friendship is a label that doesn't let the people involved explore the possibilities of love-expression fully, so we detached completely from each other, but what do we do with other people and society? What do we tell them? People demand a label for everything. I'm wondering it anyone will ever "get" what I'm meaning above. This seems like the only community that would understand, yet I don't expect much, especially because my way of describing things isn't the clearest thing in the universe. sorryy. But I'm curious if anyone will truly get it. Also if there's an explanation of how two seemingly unconscious humans developed high consciousness emotions next to each other. That's the weirdest. (p.s.: this doesn't mean the relationship dynamic is healthy nor that I'm defending it in any way. + high conscious emotions are present in higher percentages in the friendship when other needs are met - like Maslow's hierarchy - so I didn't contradict myself anywhere on the thread)

I had a similar thought. Mine is that if you want to become enlightened, there is a way more efficient way to make that happen than years of meditation. To be concrete: suicide. So, if someone wants to be enlightened to end suffering; you can end suffering right now by killing the ego. If someone wants to be enlightened to find truth; you can kill what's preventing you from finding truth by killing the ego. Leo often says that the point of life is to awake; to die before death. I never understood why he believes that. Seems inconsistent. If you want to awake to the absolute truth, there are way more efficient ways than meditation or psychedelics. I get why one would want to become enlightened, but claiming that survival of the body while absence of ego is the number one priority of life does not make sense to me. At least I haven't heard or experienced anything convincing to back up that claim. Long story short; if enlightenment is the most important thing for you, there is nothing preventing you from killing your ego permanently at any moment. And as you say; enlightenment will happen one day anyway. There seems no reason to awake before you die, other than that it is something you want to do. Me: Not an expert on nonduality and never had an experience I would count as such. Just someone who tries to make sense of what he hears.

I feel like the stuff that happens to me keeps me from awakening. It's hard on my self esteem and I'm trying to fix my ego for a decade now because I know its necessary to go further in awakening. But for some reason unfortunate coincidences keep piling up and up and its just takes away all my energy. Sometimes I feel like my life is engineered perfectly to drive me slowly into suicide.

The Deep Problem Of Marketing Society and culture is very resistant to new ideas Modern society is very materialistic It's not just about providing evidence Marketing is no just about sales, marketing is about influence and eye balls, it's exposing millions of people with certain paradigms, assumptions and ideas and then those ideas become reality, they define what reality is, reality is not just something you find out there, it's something you construct - marketing, society , culture, business are constructing it So the question is what type of ideas are most people exposed to. Status quo is always interested in maintaining it's power and will fight for it It's a construction of beliefs, concepts... and most people will not think of it like it's just a story, they will think it's reality This current reality is mostly constructed by science, academia and business Business is only concerned about maximizing profits, it doesn't care about truth and consciousness Marketing is important anywhere where your trying to get a consensus, for people to agree on anything Those who have control and power, they control access to eyeballs Education is a big propaganda, and after you go trough it, you are indocrinated in a certain box, paradigm and anything that then goes against it you will think of it as insane, non-mainstream stuff People in power want their ideology being spread trough education "I will exert my power to push my self-agenda trough" - this is what ego all about, ego is power hungry.. why? ... because it is no conscious, if it were conscious it would surrender all desire for power, but it doesn't know any better, so it's life is all about acquiring more and more power and than using that power to satisfy and fulfill shallow ego gratifications like buying stuff, taking vacations Notice that nothing high consciousness is ever advertised on TV, or taught in schools Modern marketing is selfish, it's all about maximizing sales (every little word is tweaked to push all your emotional buttons) Marketing is any way to influence any body and getting eye balls and then you can use those eye balls to earn money, to pitch a religion or you can use it to enlighten people.. you can use it for good or evil Word of mouth is another way of marketing Notice that nobody is talking about real solutions to mankind problems What modern marketing is pitching you is fake solutions to very real problems and those solutions are designed not to work so that you can come back and get more (example: pharma that sells you "medicines" that dont' cure anything, jsut so that they can sell you more medicines) 44 min - marketing is directly responsible for causing obesity, disease, mindless consumerism, mind numbing entertainment, dogma, tribalism, misinformation, war, laziness, anti-mastery mindset, suicide, anger, depression, ignorance cancer, every form of addiction known to mankind, materialist paradigm,the growing gap between the higher and lower class, pollution and poison Materialist paradigm is gross by it's very nature, it doesn't recognize anything subtle (creativity, consciousness, beauty, truth, love)... it recognize only the most base forms of human desire (need for sex, need of greasy food, easy stimulation, shortcuts and quick solutions and get rich quick schemes). Modern marketing sets the bar so low that when you hear the truth, the truth sounds like insanity... because you are always judging anything you are hearing by what you heard before, and what you have heard before is what you have heard from every single marketing channel that is popular ... so you are always judging truth against untruth and there is always a giant mountain of untruth with a little tiny grand of truth, so that giant mountain easily outweighs the little tiny grand of truth if you are not vigilant about it (and in a sense this is how it should be because society must evolve trough the spiral dynamics stages. What can be marketed is very much limited by the audiences paradigm, it's very much limited by the limits of human language and by what can be communicated, if a thing cannot be communicated, it's hard to market it. It's also limited by the predominant needs and desires of the population, so it creates this kind of vicious circle where unconscious people will only buy things that are unconsciously marketed to them but then because companies have to carter to that and market unconscious things that makes the people even more unconscious and then those unconscious people are themselves the ones who are running the marketing companies . Even if you think you are not doing marketing, you are doing it by working for a company , so you need to look at what marketing is your business doing. If you are working for Mcdonalds look at what kind of marketing it is doing. Most people are like zombies, cogs in the machine who are contributing to the marketing of Mcdonalds and then what that is ultimately doing is poisoning human beings It's not easy to find conscious work, most work is unconscious. To break out of that unconscious cycle it take vision, ambition, higher consciousness values, takes a lot of work to work towards those , takes work to move trough the spiral dynamics stages Here's what we can do: you can take control of your own life, you can stop using society as the gold standard against which you judge other paradigms and other ideas , you can stop assuming that society will deliver truth and health to you, you can stop sucking on societies tits and take ownership over the kind of media that you consume, over the kind of businesses that you shop with and the kind of companies that you are willing to work for and kind of marketing that you are willing to do and willing to support, that's within your power and that's exactly what a conscious person will need to do. Most people don't exercise this power because, they haven't really thought about it, they are just ignorant about it. They are unconscious. High consciousness stuff is hard to market. It's much easier to create a business which sells poison than it is to create a business which actually elevates people. It's hard to convince people to buy good stuff. Are you gonna appeal to people most base and unhealthy needs and desires or are you gonna have a larger vision for the world? A lot of spiritual masters will never be famous because they don't write books and don't know how to market to the masses. You tend to take marketing that you are exposed to as the entire possibility space of what's out there, of what's possible and that is an enormous distortion of the truth. There is a whole world out there beyond mainstream marketing that most people have no clue about. 1h - Leo wants, that you on some point outgrow actualized.org. So, that you don't need that material for personal development and that you can get all the answers from within What would responsible marketing look like? marketing what elevates the user, taking the users agenda as your number 1 priority rather than money. Is the thing you are selling going to truly, honestly elevate the user? Is your product elevating the user? How can you improve your product so that you would be really proud of the fact that you are elevating your users consciousness? responsible marketing cares about improving peoples lives cares about marketing health and not disfunction. It doesn't want to addict people. It wants to offer permanent solutions to their problems. Key takeaways from this episode: Start to notice how marketing is unhealthy, just how much of it around you there is and start to notice that marketing doesn't just pertain to TV adds but to a lot of other stuff that you normally don't consider as marketing Start to notice a few of healthy marketing out there that exist and try to see what is the ratio of healthy to unhealthy. Ask yourself is that elevating me or is this dragging the humanity down? Stop expecting that truth will trickle down to your from up above. That society will speed feed you with truth - it wont. Go out of your way to find the unmarketed gems (the books, the seminars, the teachers) . This is really how you advance yourself in life. You don't sit back and wait for gems to come to you, you don't wait me for tell them to you

This is the symptom list from the National Institute of Mental Health: Persistent sad, anxious, or “empty” mood Feelings of hopelessness, or pessimism Irritability Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness Loss of interest or pleasure in hobbies and activities Decreased energy or fatigue Moving or talking more slowly Feeling restless or having trouble sitting still Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions Difficulty sleeping, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping Appetite and/or weight changes Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts Aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems without a clear physical cause and/or that do not ease even with treatment It doesn't have to be every symptom, and it could fluctuate in the amount of symptoms and intensity over time. People often misinterpret depression as an extreme sadness, but depression is often a sort of umbrella emotion that contains many other emotions underneath like sadness for instance. And if it's been going on for some time then it's probably because there are some major issues that haven't been addressed like emotional trauma or even the current traumatic situation that is actively going on (think abusive spouse, bullying, etc.). I've been in similar situations/feelings before, and so that might be why what is said resonates with you. Agreed I think him being your ex makes a big difference. There's a plethora of reasons he could be acting this way because of it. I think the most likely is he was only there for the sex and now that you're not providing it he's treating you like what he feels like you are, a nuisance.

I'm originally from a deep Red place in Florida that's like 95% white (in the area with the poor/working class whites... aka my background), and the racism that I've noticed comes in mild to more severe forms in about 40% of those people. This is a HUGE number of people. So, because white people are the largest demographic that have the biggest sway on election results, that means that people on the Right know that they have to appeal to this group to get elected. So, they create dog whistles as a wink and nod to that demographic of people. This is called the Southern Strategy, and has been employed since the Voting Rights Act in the 60s when there was a political re-alignment. So, this is an example of institutionalized racism against non-white people that continues on into present day. So, I don't know how bigoted Mexican men and black women generally are, nor is it relevant. It's not relevant because there are no candidates running on the "be racist against white people" platform, as this is political suicide. White people are the majority party. So, you can't only rely on non-white voters to win you an election. You have to appeal to white people as the majority demographic. And proposing bills that disenfranchise white people will simply not work. However, a politician running on the Southern Strategy will win votes and approval by promising to disenfranchise non-white people and making good on those promises. So, the social power here is not conferable in any way. So, even if there are some mean black ladies somewhere out there who give white people the stink eye at the bus stop, it doesn't threaten to have any effect on the lives of white people, at all... except maybe hurting some snowflakes' feelings. And that's true, no matter how bigoted a demographic that's non-white generally is, as that party is still a minority and doesn't wield as much voting power or power to stack to the status quo in their favor. So, I suspect the way you're looking at this is by asking, which demographic do you really think are "better people"? Do you think Mexican men and black women are better than poor white people? And the answer is none of the above and no. I guarantee there are good people and knuckleheads in each group, in conferable proportions. People are all over the place on the spectrum of having it together and not having it together. But this is not an issue of character, and framing it as such obscures the real issues. In reality, it's an issue of social power and the workings of a system that give more power to white individuals at the expense of non-white individuals. And it's important to be aware that this system is being leveraged by powerful people in the Right wing to get votes and approval on the backs of non-white people.

Ah, I think I'm on this same page. Just confused as to why anyone claims to know anything, then, even with respect to enlightenment? Just a note: She does seem largely dualistic and parts of Atlas Shrugged make it clear she didn't really understand philosophies like Advaita Vedanta and erroneously assumed that they are 100% illogical and baseless. You may have read some of her nonfiction - so have I. However, I am not as quick to completely debase her, especially in terms of how to create an economy and behaivoral expectations of individuals (or distinct experiences of the one Self, in terms of nonduality). Basically, her systems thinking is interesting to me. I should note that I am not supporting the unhinged capitalism so many people (incorrectly) think Rand raves about. It would be interesting to talk to you and others who so strongly rebuke her about the actual plots of her novels and their implications, bad and good. Also, Rand died of heart failure. Not suicide. So.... weird that Osho claimed suicide.

Funny when the ignorant call out others ignorant. I've done many camping trips, someone of the best times of my life connecting back with nature and life. Firstly of all I didn't say you have to do it forever, your average person is so fucked up side ways, they would die in a week of camping because they have no living in nature skills, or they would burst into tears from being alone or not having TV/Video games etc. Also it doesn't have to be as a hard as you think, as long as the weather conditions are decent and you have some access to fresh water (rivers) and food (berries + animals) heck you can even go buy your groceries beforehand, you don't need to do it 100% handicapped, you can use tools to aid you. You have no idea what you're talking about you've just made some assumption about how things work, maybe go research some tribes that live in rich environments, you'd realise how much spare time they have in their hands to sit and do nothing in the village because it actually doesn't take 16 hours of your day to meet your survival needs, especially if you've got a foundation. Yes yes we have evolved, thats why depression and suicide is more rampart than ever, most people cant meditate or be alone in silence for 10 mins. Look at how much the entertainment industry soaks up time, look at how many people spend hours upon hours on stupid websites like reddit or twitch where they watch other people play video games because they're so desperate to make that little connection, because they're depressed and lonely. Even for productivity, read "Deep work"? you're much more likely to get shit done if every time you needed to work you can fly out to a cabin in the woods away and from everything with nothing to do but the work. It has been proven by science to that being in nature actually plays a vital role for your health and being. And you get the opposite with concrete roads, builidngs, vehicles, human traffic, noise, pollution, grey landscapes, advertisements and billboards everywhere, all this soaks your life energy and makes you depressed. Please don't chat shit like as if our evolution isn't a double edge sword, 90% of men would be happy to sit in a high end realistic VR and fuck virtual girls all day long, and never get out of their couchs ever again, you think this is good for your soul? Most people choose what's not good for them, but what dopamine wants, hence unhealthy foods and obesity, no one wants to intentionally be fat. Nature and the wilderness helps to regulate dopamine. I hope you learned something. Guess you haven't read enough productivity books, one of the technique that keeps coming up "walk out in nature", the bad thing is most people have to make do with parks which isn't good enough, it's too artificial, too overcrowded, you can still see the buildings and see and hear vehicles, and you barely see any wild life or interesting plants. To get the benefits parks will do little, you really need to walk into real nature environments.

This is a really good example of how models suck at representing reality. Seems to be a double edged sword, based on the context, the individual and however its ripple effects dance around in the universe. Let's not paint schizophrenia as if it is a good disorder for everyone - I am sure it can be embraced by certain individuals - but the overall effect on people seems to be of pain on people. Statistically higher suicide rates, high rates of smoking, etc. That said, I believe there are just shades of schizophrenia like there are shades of everything else - everything is blurry anyway. Three of my siblings have had schizophrenia and I've always intuited that there was a dream-like quality to the world. Perhaps a mild form of schizophrenia(ish) jumpstarted my inquiry into nonduality. I believe there is a connection. Some excellent systems thinking and deep insights about conciousness could potentially be used to tackle this issue (aka we need turquoise people, according to your model).

I also want to add that seeking Ego death is a fool's errand, because the Ego is already an illusion. Suicide can be done only if you believe you are the body and you believe that by ending the body you end yourself. There is a base error there. If the body dies, you do not die. Hence suicide is impossible - it is a fool's errand. Enjoy being, peace.

@Azrael be careful with your theory, man. I appreciate your concern but i had a feeling meditation is for suicide long before Leo said things like death, suicide

Your post in one of the reasons why I dislike @Leo Gura talking about deep topics containing phrases like death, ego suicide, etc. To someone that is as far as Leo or more advanced, this kind of talk can make sense and illustrate ideas or experiences. To someone like @Baotrader, it is confusing and misleading because you don't have the capacity yet to make sense of it. That's why in Zen they only give the knowledge to you, that you can handle. Otherwise, ppl would go crazy.

Did you commit a suicide when you woke up from the last nights dream?

Yes, the ritualistic suicide of the garbage one accumulates.

More like becoming immune to it. Ego death = suicide meditation will only bring you closer to it.

Enough nonsense! Meditation is facing pain head on, has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

Search how to get rid of your self esteem issues. All stem from this. As a man it doesn't really matter how you look as long as you take care of yourself and are confident/at peace within. Look at how many stars are still not happy with their life even after getting everything they wanted, even if they have godlike bodies. They still commit suicide ... Doesn't matter how good you look, if you have self esteem issue you will still find something to complain, you will always feel as "missing something". Read the six pillars of self esteem by Nathaniel Branden Watch videos about self esteem on youtube and take notes Start a daily meditation habit starting today.

hey there, I'll be very short. ( ) excuse my french minded english. ( with my lack of skill, as a learned it only by copying pattern, never listen at school ) This topic will be egoic ( thanks for reading ) Fan of music since child, I find my life purpose while listening on weed music at a friend home. ( my all 3 best friends are currently into electronic music making ) only wanted to be a electronic musician since 3 years ( soon 4 ) ( I worked like a slave those last years, on me and my multi projects ) I was a bit in PTSD ( from using LSD and contemplating that reality was not a thing ( this is what I ve seen in the void of my mind ) that nothing matter .. I didn't find any real god, I was deluded that I will understand something, but only met my intuition overpowered even more than usual ( could see imagery pop in my mind while drawing ) " adhd " ( for real, I do not even want to believe I m this kind of shit, cause I hate 98% of internet who pretend to be this shit ) they are sad to me to read. They all sound sorry to tell that, but kind of stupid. ( not their wrong, they have been very mindfucked to believe they are "sick" ) old kid addicted to video games since my 6 years ( pokemon ) to 20/21 years ( droped it when I did weed ) ( league of legend ) ( was used to be "introvert" and akwardly very social ) making real weirdo jokes ( kind of rick & morty before it exist ) I could makes jokes about china eating africans to save the entire world. I love shatter reality and perspective since a child ( wasn't aware of doing a thing like that ) was just funny and natural to me to be a leo. I m INTP ( but mixed ENTP ) ( I did the test 4 times on my life and had 3 times INTP / 1 time ENTP ) ( those are models, not real fact, but they sound very accurate to me, against all others ( that I read ) I do not believe in IQ as something related at pure intelligence, it is a bit of something maybe.. I have between 135 & 150 ( not in term of intelligence, in term of IQ of course ) I never used any drug until 20 ( only video games addiction, not because I was ugly or hated at school ( I hated school because it was borring to death ) I was mostly seen as a beautiful guy/nice, so no one bothered me because I had a nice face ( was on the border to be hated like a nerd though, but was mostly talking to everyone and trying to be openminded to every idea, besides the day or I shoot out that football was for fucking chimp ( exactly haha ) before leo was in my reality ) I was a bit weirdo, crazy, and in my "mind" , because everything ultimately..borring to death. ( and I was good at lonely sport one of the best for my heretic body ) I m a hard alone worker ( learn, music, art, etc.. ) very curious; watch various "scientific/biologic/psychologic" content. ( but only since 4 years, since my life goal is being a god tier at music ) ( I do music, video making, recording, music engineering, basic web language understanding ) my hands are a bit everywhere except on girls. used alcohol a lot the first 2 years I discovered ( but never did alone my entire life ) ( at 20 ) because it was fun and "legal". then at my end 20y, some of my friend who likes music and movies makes me try weed. I buy a package the week after I try it ( it was not in a "night" context, only an afternoon, by listening music while high, it was like WOAAAAAAAAAAAAA ) Never stop using it more than 3 days for the last 3/4 years. ( probably put all my back monney in it, because it made me work for the first time of my life ) first thing : like music in 4k when you are used to 480 and you already loved it... ho man I fell in love, music and weed, it's infinity at hand, it's bliss. everyday it's bliss. I know this is stupid to be addicted to something like this, but who isn't addicted to something in life ? most people are addicted to having sex or masturbate. ( I do not have those addiction at all, even porn isn't a problem at all, for instance, it has been 4 days without any kind of thing, it doesn't even miss me ) but WEED MAN I started making electronic music like 6 month after i started ( and very religiously ). ( I learned english full while being high, I was mostly the worst piece of shit of my school for my entire school grades ) I even tell that I dedicate my life to the god of music in a very serious manner haha, so I worked so hard, my mind and ear was bleeding, it was even stupid of my part. I m still very healthy though, only crippling anxiety as a life style. weed remove all anxiety from me, absolutely all. I try the drug ritalin, but it was mostly shit fake meth in pack, makes me work and idiots completely crazy robot, makes me learn something about mind. ( it was my intent, I never really believed this shit would help me, it was to cope with the price of weed ( I wanted to have something equivalent and not pay for it ) what a shame.. ( cause in my country drug, are 100% free when prescribed ) I wanted to know what society was about to give me to makes me a good worker. holy shit, should have remain ignorant, but still, makes me grow a lot in the end ( if not makes me loose a cell of brain of both ) but brain doesn't exist but like leo said, all my induction was fucked to death. ( idea that pop by link of emotional pattern resolution, something like ) you're so tweaked, that your mind stop have insight, it just "do". without thinking really about the "how". ( it's the extreme of who I m ) ok now : I m almost 25, never worked in a real job ( only with dad for 3 month ) will never do it again. ( my dad can be real harsh and seriously close minded, I helped a bit with this but still ) ( only worked on my project since I started.. weed . ), ( but my country gives you 500€/month at 25 years. if you do not have a work ( yes for doing nothing ) it's social security ) why I start to want to rule the world when I take a puff ? ( I mean this is how I feel ) most people are not resonating the same on weed as me. I worked with my dad in physical job, wanted to kill me almost every day, put violence on me ( I do not live with him, only with my mother ) ( I m less heavy than a average girl 54kg and my 171 cm ) can't do physical shit, cause I had suicidal contemplation while doing this, turn me into a fucking nihilist, telling people that their life will end being a fucking slavery jokes ( this kind of thinking ) this is when I m out of weed, I always be a cynical, and a sceptical blabla. When I started weed, all my bad, all my shit was turning ON ! ok end of story, could write on my context for long, but I think you grasb the problem. I m fucking addicted to death, I can now do weed/learning/music for all day while being high ( in fact I can't work without being high, it's completely chaos ) I do not have motivation, I m easily distracted by anything ( in my mind , not reality ) I mean if reality is borring my mind start to create story on things or self reflect endlessly ( my natural states ). I see pattern in everything, relate to every idea, I can't "work" properly, it's when I smoke, I m "happy" stop being a piece of shit talker ( stop being cynical : try to help everyone make it in everything ) I learned electronic music ( more than 8000 hours of work ( only on music ) and others 3000 of hours : studying, reading, personnal work, reading book about business, art, etc.. ) I m still not at the lvl of selling anything. but when I don't have weed, I m lazy, procrastinating, playing EVEN video games, that I put out of my life when I started weed. ( completely stop my old addiction ) started to work and read a lot on weed. I think I would never learn patience without weed. and still it's annoying. when my mind creates all this thought only to entertain me/nerves me. I mean I wasn't aware as a kid of trolling people, only to excite me, I was doing this without even hate on people, conventional talk wasn't exciting enough. All my new real friends are Raves/Dj/drug addict ( mostly weed ). now I have 3 month to live without weed, because of monney, only this.. my mind start to creates pattern to get weed, it's very serious, I don't know how to control me, I could just contemplate suicide or tired, my lazyness, darkside thinking, anxiety, apathy. ok then when this is not happening, I m just wanting to procrastinate and never work on my project or on anything. Ok I can still love music, but man, I can't do music. it's crippling after 15 min of making music, I'll start feeling bad for a random though poping in. I never had real motivation before weed, I m still virgin at almost 25 ( not really making me feel great or bad, but maybe it's a thing, I don't know ) , even if I did LSD ( alone with self contemplation ), mushroom, mdma ( but fuck that shit, in the end, it's a happy void ), and a lot of others shits. Weed is my fuel and I m a car, for real, I m just living on the parking when I m out of weed :'( Now I m out of monney, should find a work/create a business to pay more weed ( like I did ) or should I really stop, and how to STOP and still makes music and hang a bit with my friend when I start to be crazy because of living the introvertness ? I would kill for a real solution, and not a joking solution, my life is so shitty without weed, and only monney stop me from buying. Should I create a side business on the internet ? now my account is 8€ currently, I still have 10€ of weed, and I m reflecting if I should suck dick or keep my dignity ( I m kind of joking ) no economy, no drive licence ( cost 2000€ to not get it ), but full of knowledge ! .. Please guys, don't tell me to accept Jesus I already accepted him in me, he talks to me in my sleep, tell me to call my weed dealer immediatly and trap him to stole his weed

Chapter 61 I have to the conclusion after a lot of insight and contemplation work over the last 2 days that living spiritually is difficult. But there is a meaning to it. Living a spiritual life is to live a sacred life. To treat the body as a sacred temple. To view life as if it were something sacred. To look at life as journey from birth to death to the afterlife, to consider this as a journey of the soul from the physical phase or dimension to the spiritual phase or spirit form or state in the afterlife. This journey being like a stopover in the greater scheme of things. But the journey is valuable to the soul. It has transcend this journey called life to reach the afterlife to experience peace. A soul's journey is never complete without experiencing life. Life is just one of the stages in this eternal journey of the soul. It has to experience peace and joy and stability in this journey called life to make a stable peaceful transition to the afterlife where the soul can continue living in peace and never suffer any harm. Thus experiencing great distress and suffering in life is not ideal for the soul. It's not good for its eternal journey. By living a life of suffering and misery and sadness you are not doing any favor to the soul. You are only hurting it. You are hurting its purpose. You are hurting the soul so much that it will almost cease to exist and try to escape life. It willl try to end the chaos by ending life or suicide. This is not a favorable outcome for the soul. The soul desires to survive and live in peace and happiness. The soul will suffer great distress if it cannot experience peace, harmony and happiness in life. This distress is harmful to the soul and its health. The main goal here is that the soul should rest or remain in peace after death. But for that it should have peace and happiness in life and not restlessness and suffering. Whatever the body and mind experience in life is toxic and it is what the soul has to bear through life and that is sad, its the own unique story of the soul and what it had to go through in life. Every soul close to death has a unique story to tell, a story of hurt, pain, suffering, loss, grief, struggles, endurance, love, poverty, tragedies, abuse, hope, triumphs, etc. All this comprises the journey of that soul. This is its unique footprint through life and the world. It's important to protect the soul. To protect it from any kind of harm or damage, little or big. To keep this journey safe and peaceful. The body is a temple of the soul. So it's important to protect the body as well. To maintain it healthy, functioning and vital. But all this does not mean that we should never have any suffering, sadness and pain. Or struggles. Of course we should, only that makes us more human. Experiencing the entire spectrum of human experiences both good and bad and all kinds of human emotions is a very vital part of growth and empathy otherwise we will turn into sociopaths or very unemotional shallow beings incapable of deep emotions and understanding. It takes pain to know pain. You cannot be living a perfectly happy life and never experienced even a single thought or feeling of sadness and expect to be very empathetic towards others. You could show that you care and be sympathetic but that's not the same as actually feeling someone's pain exactly the way they do. It will come if you have been there in some way. If you have never suffered then you will most likely be just blank or indifferent to someone's pain. So ultimately upon it's death, the soul can leave in peace. If the soul suffers too much in the course of life, then even in the afterlife it will be equally vindictive and restless. Human beings think that they can control the environment. What they don't realize is that they are also a part of the same environment that they are trying to destroy.