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I’ve been having a rough go og it lately and whenever i find myself thinking some repeditive thought, like suicide or if i obsess over something, i react by tightening my muscles and shaking my head or my entire body. Pretty rediculous way to cope obviously, but i was wondering if anyone had similar physical reactions to such things and maybe if someone had any advice. Thanks bye.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/opinion/sunday/suicide-ketamine-depression.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage Very interesting! The general population seems to be slowly getting more and more open towards therapeutic usage of psychedelics substances. I think western culture is hoping on the right tracks. I'd love to see where we'll be in another 20 years.

@thehero Wow thehero, thanks so much for sharing this. We are all here for you ❤️ Awareness of this is your first step so well done! That's progress in itself. I empathize with you completely. Now I'm no therapist or psychologist please understand that but I will give you advise based on my own experiences with this but somebody like @Solace or @Nahm will be hopefully able to give you a deeper understanding. This ultimately comes down to unconditional love and acceptance. For yourself. I don't mean that vainly. I don't agree that suffering will be of any help whatsoever in this department. You need to get to the root of the issue especially as you mentioned suicide. Could you possibly look into therapy? Preferably a therapist that specialises in the humanistic approach. Is that an avenue you could explore?

I saw a documentary about placebo effects. A guy ate his placebo pills to commit suicide. He was sent to the hospital where he almost died, the doctors had no idea why because there was nothing wrong with him physically...but he was dying. In the end he didn´t die fortunately but it´s crazy what power your mind can have over your body.

@Anna1Ouch! way to shut down this alternative medicine method with one quick search! I don't want to call out "Confirmation bias!" but you have not looked at it in detail (potential benefits, as even medications have their risks/side effects) However, I hope not to offend you as i respect your belief/opinion and personal experience. The reason i wanted your take is because of your specific background. (I have no idea what it would be like to have MS for 27 yrs, and i feel very blessed in my lack of health related issues thus far) Wim Hof created this method after losing his wife to suicide, being left with like 3 kids and finding a way to deal with his depression. What i found astounding, other than the many world records Wim Hof broke, is how he was able to prove how to consciously control the autonomic nervous systems. A college took him and some people he trained for a few weeks with the wim hof method into a lab to be injected with a bacterium supposed to produce harsh cold-like symptoms and were able to feel nothing (show no symptoms). I practiced this method a few years ago and it was challenging but beneficial. I no longer make a habit out of it but i recommend for someone not in good physical/psychological health (do your research if interested, many detailed youtube videos on proper technique and necessary precautions ) I would have disagree here Anna. All are mental health disorders. I am not so knowledgeable on the diagnosing of these disorders, but mood and thought disorders sound like "depression" and sure there may be a good chance it carries on through genes/dna (predisposed) to certain risks but this doesn't mean the main cause didn't come from environment/nurture/culture @EvilAngelAwesome hope you do check Wim Hof out! Some great documentaries on youtube. It reminds me of shamanic breathing in a sense and when i practiced it, it felt like it gave the brain (not just in the head) a good "reset" Wish you the best!

I've been diagnosed with Bipolar 1 and I'm on medication for it. My 2 severe manic episodes were both heavily centered around spirituality. Both times it felt like I was tripping, though I've never taken psychedelics before. It was scary at times, but I also experienced the greatest highs of my life. I truly felt like I had known God and seen the devil in myself. If you truly have this insight into the nature of yourself, it's the most absolutely terrifying and beautiful thing you will ever experience. However, I wouldn't wish this condition upon anyone. It's not exactly like a trip in that you're never sure if it will end or if you will lose your mind permanently and feel as though you're living in a different dimension than others. I also truly believed that I was going to physically die from it. If not by suicide then by sleep deprivation.

I choose to not live in denial. It's extremely important that if you have been properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist with Bipolar that you're medication compliant. It's irresponsible to tell ppl otherwise. Unless you would like them becoming manic or suicidally depressed on your shoulders? I'm a suicide surviver -year 2009. So, don't lecture me.

This article is completely biased and you will not find any relevant testimonies to uphold that claim It was made by an egoistical reporter that loved taking down spirituality, the easy way, claiming that the guru is some cult leader Vague claims and accusations , some scary halloween pictures of bentinho One fact, a student of his commited suicide,..,how many students do modern gurus have.? Hundreds, a suicide is a tragedy but people commit suicide from all walks of life, its absolutely ridiculous to demonize a guru for the suicide of one of his students He fled america? He left for personal bizz and he came back after that, like wtf so sensationalist You know this article is bullshit, if you read it, you can not tell one single concrete point after it that makes you go "oh this bentinho guy is horrible", you can recall one clear vivid point that upholds the claim, Its just brewing a vague and accusing vibe, histy misty scaredy tones, its bogus, absolute bogus If one single reporter, one single article is all it takes for you to discredit a spiritual guru maybe you're not as spiritual as you think you are, the ego and the media go hand in hand for destroying spirituality credibility, if thats all it takes be ready to wash down all your spiritual beliefs down the toilet real fast And make no mistake, ego dominated industries like the media are out to discredit spiritual practices

@Anna What are the panic attacks like in intensity and duration? I've had panic attacks in conjunction with suicidal ideation in the past. Whenever I have had a panic attack I just keep hyperventilating non-stop for 20-30 mins. What you should do about it really depends on where you intuitively feel the panic attacks to be coming from. My advice to you is to just examine where/why the panic attacks are arising and then decide from there. My panic attacks were coming from a deep pit of neurosis which almost made me dead serious about committing suicide. Obviously that doesn't sound like the case for you but just check that you are really convinced that your panic attacks are coming from a place of purification rather than a place of deep despair. Because people can experience deep shit when their neurosis resurfaces and is being cleared up from mindfulness. Just make sure you've investigated your psychiatric health. For your panic attacks, are there any triggers? Any particular topics or ideas which send your mind into a crazy spiral? Are there any triggers for the uncontrollable surge of emotions you feel? Do the panic attacks arise completely randomly? In reference to my first paragraph the duration, intensity and causes of your panic attacks completely define the context and significance of your panic attacks and hence they completely define what you should do about them.

@winterknight Wonderful work!! I did only read very little of this thread... I hope not this thread magically disappears from this forum before I can read it all. I realize that this journey is very long and im just at the beginning... What is the best expectation that prepares me for this journey? My preliminary answer: I should expect "hell of hell, no mercy, worst case scenario, slow suicide, etc", essentially expecting the toughest journey, only being able to push through with my current will and curiosity for truth. This expectation makes it easier for me to evaluate what I really want (Why suffer through hell?)... is it a valid expectation? Will alignment with this expectation (Me being in the second ox picture) prevent me from quitting in the toughest of times?

What do you think of the 'new age' phenomenon. The video I linked earlier is a 'new ager' so to speak. It's got its own dogma and religious qualities that are to be taken on faith or belief. The ACIM crowd sometimes crosses over into some of these concepts. The entire new age doctrine revolves around ascended masters who are actually aliens of the 11th dimension, or Arcturians, and there is a conspiracy about Atlantis, Ley Lines, the pyramids, and it all culminates in being the missing pieces in a huge conspiracy over the unsolved mysteries over the ancient world. Teal Swan has a huge following, she has had several followers commit suicide, she has promoted suicidal ideation as a 'reset button', claims she can hear tectonic plates moving, I could keep going. That being said, she has some decent practical psychotherapeutic advice, but definitely is not a mentally stable person. She has an 'ashram' in Costa Rica, her followers are tattooed with her symbol. She bashes basically every guru in existence, which is fine, but highly hypocritical in that she breaks the same rules she pushes for, like sleeping with your followers. Matt Kahn makes a similar show, where he makes predictions that don't come true, then makes an unverifiable excuse of how it actuality DID come true. The new age community at large cannot agree on a single narrative, though I'm sure something is in the works or already exists. They all have different interpretations, different alien races, but they all claim to 'intuit' it or get a 'download' from source. Wtf is happening here? All of these new agers seem to hand out good practical advice at times, then just go off into totally unverifiable and fantastic information...why not stop at the practical advice? Not to mention the amount of money they charge, hundreds of dollars for 'starseed' activation and other craziness. When I question these things, I'm bombarded by a weaponized version of spiral dynamics, pigeon holed into a place of 'you've not reached that stage of consciousness' to understand. There is a corruption, so to speak, in many spiritual circles and communities, it seems an inherent part of every human system, corruption exists or someone intentionally benefits from the misfortune of others, even on a path to God so to speak.

@brugluiz Spirituality is about facing your death, but it's often used as an excuse to justify the fear of living life. @vela3 Not everyone lives in the USA though. If I ever consider suicide imminent due to lack of money or impending homelessness, I'll give them a call and see if they can get me a place to live and provisions. Not doing that just yet since whatever accomodations I get would likely be worse than this corner of my parents' living room, but it is nice to know that my country is so against suicide that you can ask for help and they will help you. Even if that results in a 72 hour psychiatric hold, that actually helps your disability benefits claims, so I heard. @Baotrader Noticed you're from Vietnam, have you though about running away and living in the jungle? https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vietnam-jungle-men-incredible-story-ho-van-lang-boy-who-lived-wild-41-years-1569459

National suicide hotline 800 273 8255 24/7 free and confidential support for people in distress, crisis, and prevention resources for you and your loved ones. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is a national network of local crisis centers that provides free and confidential emotional support to people in suicidal crisis or emotional distress 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We're committed to improving crisis services and advancing suicide prevention by empowering individuals, advancing professional best practices, and building awareness.

National suicide hotline 800 273 8255 24/7 free and confidential support for people in distress, crisis, and prevention resources for you and your loved ones. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is a national network of local crisis centers that provides free and confidential emotional support to people in suicidal crisis or emotional distress 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We're committed to improving crisis services and advancing suicide prevention by empowering individuals, advancing professional best practices, and building awareness. suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

@Mikael89 Quantum suicide..this reminds me of this one mechanism I would use in the past when I had these thoughts as a teenager, I would ask myself what if I took my life now only to return and have to start the whole series, every phase, every moment, all over again? Precisely like when you die in a video game and have to return to the first level. This theory would often stop these thoughts for me because I couldn't even bear to think about going through the same pain over & over again. At this point in my life I have come to Love even those things that were once painful and hard to grip for they have only brought me to this path I am on now. I have learned so much from turmoil & traumatic experience that there's no reason at all not to love it or appreciate it for it was a true experience that only ultimately helped me see the beauty of God that lies in everything.

Call a suicide hotline. Thats a permanent decision for a temporary problem. Dealing with your parents is one of the most difficult things for a human to accomplish but you can do it. I am doing it too.

During September I was thinking on suicide and I would say that a lot of introspection was putting me into a downward spiral. I'm not saying introspection is bad, but it can make you lose touch with reality (please, don't start with ponderings like "but reality doesn't even exist"). Taking action is also a key point. I don't mean just taking action like working or going to the gym, but also meeting new people, partying, going to new places and even doing materialistic stuff (like facing your fears). They say non-duality is the ultimate truth, but I think it can mislead people. Non-duality can be seen as something that will bring us happiness or whatever and that's why we call ourselves spiritual seekers. We're seeking for something that we already have, no matter our circumstances. It's the second thread about a person wanting to commit suicide I see here. Sometimes it's important to be more grounded and talk to people in a way they can understand, even if they are attached to their ego, or if they have a religion, or if they're atheists or whatever. If a person wants to make friends, tell them: "make friends" instead of "you have to focus on Being in order to realize you don't need friends." If a person wants to make money, tell them: "it's okay to have the desire of making money" instead of "you need to be aware of low consciousness patterns and not think about money, but just about high values." If a person wants to have sex, tell them: "it's okay to have casual relationships" instead of "you're being too shallow if you want to have sex." If a person wants happiness, tell them: "it's okay to make something for your happiness" instead of "Tony Robbins are all about Orange evil stuff and you shouldn't listen to him. Overcome your addictions by sitting and doing nothing for weeks that you'll find happiness." Be more grounded guys in order to help people who are depressed or suffering. I know many of you, including Leo, have advanced stuff to teach, but sometimes I myself feel like an alien that can't understand what enlightenment or happiness is. It seems I'm losing something very important. Maybe I am, but it doesn't mean my life is worthless. I learned a lot with my suicidal thoughts and I hope you can learn something from me (if you will). Here in Brazil we call it "ser pé no chão." By the way, Karma Yoga seems to be a very good thing in order to overcome depression.

Teal Swan is not enlightened. If you look more closely at her, she writes diatribes against people she feels wronged her, such as exes and demonizes them in public. Then look at her fanatical followers and how mentally unstable they are - how they go after anyone who criticizes her in droves. There is always scandal around her and many people hurt by her. I'm not sure why people like Teal Swan keep getting brought up around here as examples of enlightenment, though like any teacher, she has some good qualities. "Teal Swan, an emerging cult leader, claims she is a multi-dimensional Arcturian alien working with 11 other aliens in an “intergalactic Green Peace” type organization. She says she has x-ray vision and hearing, that she can inject herself into people’s brainstems to revive them and can hear tectonic plates moving. She has a massive following, many of whom, called “Tealers,” tattoo themselves with her symbol. Teal claims suicide is a “reset button” and that “death is delicious.” At least two of her followers have already committed suicide. Teal also claims to have suffered 13-years of abuse in a child-murdering Mormon Satanic Cult where she was routinely tortured, sewn into a corpse for 12 hours and made to torture other children." https://medium.com/@bescofield/the-gucci-guru-inside-teal-swans-posh-cult-36168edaf62f

Fucking money. Seems like a lot of you are trying to help him but missing the point and seeing it as just an emotional, psychological problem. But sometimes, people are so far down into physical challenges and financial scarcity that emotional/spiritual development can't really help them improve, only cope. And if fear of death is overcome, and there is no foreseeable way out of constant biological suffering, suicide can look like an option. I obviously don't know the nuances of his situation, but I know my own suicidal thoughts would stop if I just was provided with a safe and comfortable place to live and quiet place to sleep. From that springboard I imagine it would be possible to self-actualize financially, but when dealing with chronic sleep deprivation all I can really do is suffer through existence. If the OP has a way to meet basic needs and reject the role of family provider thrust upon him, why kill himself? From my point of view people end their lives for the stupidest of reasons. The things that bother me most are what feels like blatantly obvious short-sightedness and inefficiency. On the microscale, people feeling depressed over things that can easily be changed by changing their mental perspectives, their diet, physical body practices, and emotional self-hacking. On the macro-scale, a capitalist world where productivity is higher than ever, but individual survival still depends upon somehow making money. On the personal level, the feeling that there is nothing I can do except tell depressed people 'you're full of shit, get over yourself,' decry the detriments of capitalism, and feel too burdened by my own suffering to help others escape theirs.

@Baotrader I had a major insight from Byron Katie about why suicide doesn’t help in ending suffering. It’s because there will be no ‘you’ to realise that you’re dead. And so, in a twisted fate of luck, you will live in eternal suffering. But anyway, if that is your decision, then I respect it. Good luck my friend.

Is suicide justified?

To quote a suicide survivor “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

You're doing a huge service. So first off thank you. I’ve been in that spot when I was a teenager (can’t believe I’m saying that) when I was suicidal at that time and man, if you reach just 1 person who really hears you and feels you, that 1 person is more than you could probably ask for if you really impact them. I remember there would be suicide awareness speeches in my high school and whenever we had a good speaker, I literally felt that he was talking to me and I felt acknowledged and heard. As far as the hero’s journey, how deep are you going with it because obviously as a lot of us here on this forum know, what the hero’s journey is really pointing to is awakening and enlightenment and obviously those guys probably wouldn’t be that receptive to that if you’re being direct. For me, when I actually talk about the hero’s journey to people I actually get emotional (not in the sense that I’m crying) and people really feel that and it’s usually my strength when I communicate that I communicate from the heart and I do so emphatically and genuinely and people can really feel that off me when I do. So yeah, maybe food for thought.

After hours of work... EDIT YEARS OF MEDITATION DOUBLE EDIT: I AM GRANTED THAT I HAVE NEVER OWNED A PENIS AND I DON'T EXIST. I don't really get why would anyone chase enlightenment just for a mental suicide.

Disclaimer: I am no way shape or form advocating physical suicide. I know this might sound like a silly question and I feel as though the answer won't be known till I do work, but I'm asking it anyway. I feel like it's starting to hit me that this whole Enlightenment stuff is serious shit. Whenever I talk about Enlightenment there's a tendency for me to compartmentalise stuff and forget I'm talking about the nature of all existence and reality itself. I remember I was meditating yesterday and had just a few moments of clear perception. It freaks me the hell out because it was like I was never there. I'm just feeling scared now after that experience. It felt extremely beautiful to me yesterday but right now I'm just freaking out for some reason. My mind is just racing with the thought "I don't want to die" and I'm just having a existential crisis. I'm wishing I never did any of this meditation or consciousness work in the first place, because it's making me think that I can delude myself into thinking I'm alive but I've always been dead and have just been an empty void. I feel like I'm going insane. I'm just feeling a wave of negativity. I know that the way I'm phrasing it is silly and unuanced but I'm just curious about people who are completely enlightened (if such a thing is 100% possible). Are these people like talking corpses? All these words can come out their mouth and it looks like they're alive, but they're really dead?