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Its what I experienced. only was the nothingness, and me. I'm the only being that exist, alone, in the nothingness, in the eternity of the no time. I didn't see any imagination, only the nothingness, the absolute lonely. When I hadp pass to this world again, I felt: it's horrible, I'm god , and god is alone and can't escape of being god. Could god be like "desperate" or anything negative? Could god be triying to forget that is god and is alone in the nothingness? There was no love there, only nothingness, eternity. That's why my experience was so bad. I was god, and I don't want to be conscious that I'm god, because I'm alone in the nothingness. Wasn't love, only void. Now I don't feel good, I'm trying to accept the nothingness, to live again that void, but something inside me impulse me to do things, to meet people, to drink, to stay far of the void, difficult to sleep well or being alone. Well only was 2 nights ago. But now I remember clearly the void. Wasn't horrible by itself. The horrible was just when I pass to here. I felt oh no, I'm prisoner of myself, no escape for the eternity. Maybe I'm creating that illusion to forget that horror

I feel like I reached a plateau in my meditation practise. My thoughts subside rather quickly and then nothing (with lower case n). My awareness is clear and vivid and I'm observing the nothingness. When a thought appears, I quickly spot it and I can let it go. Then, the nothingness continues. It's not blissful and it's not the peaceful stillness either that you can read about in books. It's just pure blank. If I ask myself the typical self-inquiry questions (who am I?, who's aware? etc), nothing changes, I can't seem to go deeper. I do know that meditation is not about expecting something to happen and there's nothing to achieve and yet, it seems there's a part of me deep inside that's still waiting for something to happen. I'm honestly not sure what's going on. Is this just a phase? Have you experienced anything similar during your practise? Any ideas?

Your distinction between 'being in a state nothingness' and 'being in a state of dreaming' is that: an imaginary distinction, your ego is making; trying to grasp something that it cannot grasp. Nothingness and life/dream/Maya IS completely identical. No difference at all. What you are experiencing right now is nothingness. It's absolutely nothing other than your own imagination as God. Sure, we can talk about states of being stuck in dreamland, and states of being aware 'of what's going on' , but even the state of being 'aware of what's going on' (nothing, imagination, God, Love) is actually just a state of complete and utter amazement, cos it cannot be understood within any thoughts what-so-ever. We can only talk ABOUT the truth with words. We can never GET to the truth with words/thoughts. The truth IS ALWAYS THE CASE. It is not a state. It is what is. What stories you then create inside this 'is-ness' (your mind as God) is exactly that: stories, perspectives, narratives. This is the job of the separate self: to understand its own place in this world. Enlightenment is seeing that all 'trying to understand' is completetly and utterly futile. Reality is seen to be an utterly complete mystery, always out of reach for the separated logical mind. To be enlightened is to give in. To let go. To stop trying. To surrender oneself to the truth is to pour so much love into the ego that it explodes and surrenders to the mystery of existence.

My thought. My awareness. I’m observing. I spot. I let. The nothingness. It’s not. It’s not. It’s just. I ask myself. I can’t. I do know. A part of me waiting for something. The devil’s in the detail. Maybe meditation just isn’t for you.

@Exystem Thanks for the explanation. I'm still unbricking my mind but I'm not sure why it seems obvious to everyone that nothingness is a better state to be in than endless dreams, especially when those are crafted with flawless intelligence. (Well, if I understand you correctly it's not really a state. We are always one with the whole, and I'm just not aware of that). The issue is, since God has already created everything, if we become aware of infinity there would be nothing left to do anymore. I know it's only a selfish take and I'm probably just enjoying myself too much. There could be no greater feeling than being "pure infinite love", but we are talking about eternity in a one-way trip here. Such that even a pathetic insignificant point like me would undertake a more or less careful investigation before jumping in. Eventually, why does anything matter if we are going to be the same force of creation, only exploring itself in a more diluted way? Why did I fall for the love meme? Things would be so much simpler if I wasn't conscious to begin with.

Careful not to reify qualia as self-existing. They don't. If everything were self-perceiving, then the absence of everything could never be perceived. If you suddenly became blind or deaf, you wouldn't even know it. And there would be no reports of nothingness or "the void". The union of perceiver-perception-perceived is the dream as such, not truth and not absolute. It is Atman (I Am), not Brahman (Void). Atman is self, Brahman is no-self. There is no "everything" in any way shape or form. Brahman exists, Atman is a mirage, a "thought" of Brahman. A mirage can't be self-perceiving, there's nothing really there.

Oh yeah I get this. In experience the I that unifies all forms of experience is not experienced as a space, I am just using the word for lack of a better one. Definitely I don't mean a physical space when i say this word. But yes there is one reality. It's definitely not dual. Waking dream, just as dream at night, only appears to be there, while it's only dreamlike /hallucinatory/nonexistory which makes it of the same substance as that nothingness that we start with! Just as a dream It only appears to be real while the dream state is happening. Amazing ?? nothing came out of nothing after all Maybe my flavour of nonduality is a bit different, and probably more escapist if I have to be honest. I say this because from what I heard you say the world is real and there is no self type of nonduality, but I say the self is real and there is no world... Which is probably the same thing in the end somehow ... ? lol

Beginning, duality, birth and end are consciousness, but they are just a thought. Just a thought in infinite nothingness.

Dear gswva, Once again: I'm not enlightened. My knowledge is only through the scriptures I read and videos that I watch online. It's very much possible my knowledge is flawed. Without enlightenment we can only speculate. Even with enlightenment, it seems there are various levels of enlightenment with different knowledge and more depth to such knowledge. Having understood this, we can only speculate. So, lets speculate: From my understanding, all the descriptions that we give about the Brahman are just that: Descriptions and Thoughts. Even the word Brahman is just a label and as such is just a thought. Neither can you say it exist, nor can you say it doesn't exist. It exists without existing. It is the pure absolute nothingness. So absolute in its emptiness that it becomes the very source of every unique thing. Yet, none of those things are different from it. They only exist in and as itself. The way we think and believe seems to be the way Brahman seem to appear to us(Just like the AI in the movie Captain Marvel). In Non-Dual Traditions: The same reality is experienced as nameless and formless but with all potential. In Bhakthi Traditions: Those who worship krishna report visiting krishna and his abode Goloka(Krishna's abode); those who worship shiva talk about their experiences of shiva; similarly the Devi(goddess) has been seen(e,g: Ramakrishna paramahamsa frequently talked with "kali devi"). Similarly, visiting heaven and christ in christianity; Egyptian gods in ancient egypt etc.. In which ever way we create our karma(Cause & Effect - Tendencies, Beliefs, Conditioning, Memories, Behaviours, etc). such seems to be our experience. Each of these worshipers actually experience reality as if their god is the one who created the entire reality and He/She/They/It is the one who is presiding over everything. Such gods actually show to their devotees through certain experiences how they are the alpha and omega of everything(Best e.g: Virat Rupa(Universal Form) of Krishna shown to Arjuna in the battlefield). During such experiences the devotees actually experience their deity to be anything and everything, with all the descriptions and experiences of non-dual liberation as well as dual liberations being present within their deity itself. Although the deity seen with a form, still at the same time being infinite; with everything present within themselves; Just like fractals although seem to have a limited form; after having zoomed in, will reveal infinite patterns with infinite depth. I'll give you just one example of how they experience their realities based on their belief: "In Gaudiya Vaishnava school of bhakthi(Devotional) tradition(ISKCON). Their deity is Krishna. They make a distinction between Material reality and Spiritual reality. Spiritual reality having many varieties of infinite realms all being completely perfect and eternal. Each realm has a certain form of Krishna presiding over that realm. There is no suffering in any of those realms whatsoever. All of them are filled only with blissful experiences. When they want to experience material reality they descend and have them and again return back to their own abodes. Anybody who develops devotion and worships Krishna believing the stories about him with full unconditional loving intensity; after getting liberation in bhakthi(Dual type liberation) and after giving up their physical body, they go to such places and stay there eternally(I doubt it being eternal - But, who knows) Then, Krishna also creates these Material reality where infinite universes are generated and dissolved again and again. Within each of which: material heavens, hells and earthly experiences are experienced according to the karma of the living entities with incarnation and reincarnation cycles going on again and again. until liberation happens. But, they say that all these material heavens and hells and earthly realms are all temporary and will get destroyed during universal dissolution. And all of them are born in a new universe and are placed in situations suitable for their karma. Also, enjoyment and suffering in earth, heaven or hellish realms are experienced only as long as the karma for such enjoyment or suffering lasts. As such, are only temporary. Karma keeps generating and doesn't run out as long as actions are done with attachment for material fruits. In this tradition, there were and still are very exalted enlightened beings who have experienced these realms/realities directly and written about them. These realities are not experienced as hallucinatory. The realities when being experienced are more profound and vivid than even our own earthly reality. In one such story, a sage during his meditation on his lord was experiencing such a realm and got his finger burnt in that realm. When he opened his eyes in our realm, his finger actually was burnt even in our realm(remember that scene in Matrix?)." The experiences mentioned above are only experienced as such by those who follow Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition(ISKCON) which is just one sub-tradition within the vaishnava tradition within Hinduism. Like this, there are literally more than thousand of other traditions within Hinduism itself. There are 33 million gods in Hinduism it is said. Likewise, there are many different religions in other parts of the world each with their own belief and customs and traditions. Just like the e.g given above, all of them experience their LIFE based on how they create their own karma(Cause & Effect, tendencies, beliefs, conditioning, memories, behaviors, etc).. They experience their gods, heavens , hells and other such things, the way they imagined and believed. All of this is just like water in the mirage. As such you can say, it doesn't exist. But then, as some form of an imagination itself, all of it is real. Just like dreams when experienced are reacted-to-emotionally by the dreamer as being real as long as they are being experienced. Please read the sample screenshots of Yoga Vasishta from these posts first: Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind. Just as Imagination is seen within the mind of the one imagining it. There is no possibility of projecting any reality outside of a mind. Our reality is also one such reality projecting within some mind. That being the case, Every reality is only an imaginary one. Even the mind that projects it is also just a mirage. All of this duality with all its universes/realities within such minds is like a water seen in the mirage(Think of such minds as mirages and water seen in the mirages as the worlds seen in such minds). Both mirage and water seen in it are unreal. They exist without existing. Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. Brahman and intention are incompatible with one another. It is not a personal entity. It is completely impersonal and formless. It is beyond intent and intellectualizing. There is nothing that can be said about it. Upon reaching it, all activity stops. No word or thought or imagination can touch it. It exists without existing. You are one with that Brahman they say.. A mere simple movement ( (metaphorical) which is natural and is a characteristic of Brahman; like movement of air is natural for the wind) in Brahman projects out infinite upon infinite of atomic Jiva(s)(Living entities with mind) into existence. The conscious intelligent design only happens(Not consciously happen in all of them) after the Jiva(s) have come into being within Brahman. Within the minds of those Jiva(s): world, rules and regulations, intelligence, logic all these things appear. These are NOT prior to the minds. For first appeared Primary Jiva(s), as well as secondary Jiva(s) - created within those Primary Jiva(s)'s minds; there is no karma initially. But, after acting as and within the world for some time; memories, tendencies, tastes, behavioral patterns, likes and dislikes, all of these are slowly acquired and they act as a repetitive compulsive cycles after a while, these patterns are what are called as vasanas and samskaras. These are collectively called as karma of that individual. As all the entities have such patterns, you can call it as collective karma of each of such groups. Just as when water flows upon land; creates a river bed by flowing continuously; and not able to change its path but to flow within the same riverbed after a while. Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river. Similarly, without karma, the individual will dissolve and cease to exist. Such dissolution is called liberation. Further Speculation: "Not all those Jiva(s) projecting such worlds within them are very intelligent. So these primitive, first order Jivas only project some dumb random, abstract, useless, not so sophisticated; not so very conscious reality within themselves. Initially they don't possess any knowledge whatsoever. After their death. After having gone through several cycles of interaction with other jivas through reincarnation in other jiva(s)'s universes as one of the living entities in those universes and having evolved into higher conscious states(through such interaction by natural evolution which happens randomly as well as driven by karma) as human beings or other such entities, they get more knowledge. These Jivas after their death in other Jiva's mental world/universe/realm might project very sophisticated universes within their own mind(Even during the lowly evolved states they may project some unsophisticated universes within themselves in some of the after-life cycles). Such projection may not happen within each after-life cycle; only when a compatible universe is not found for the karma that this jiva currently possesses that this Jiva may create such a projection. Even then it may simply wait in limbo for a compatible universe. Again, these projections either sophisticated or unsophisticated; may not be conscious ones. Just like our dreams are not experienced with lucidity with full consciousness of knowing them to be dreams. Similarly these projections may also happen unconsciously within themselves. Within these projected universes, there will be numerous Jiva(s) either reincarnated from other realities who have qualities which are compatible with this universe, or newly created ones without having had any karma before. These newly created jivas, can be directly human beings, deities, or any other such evolved beings which the jiva projecting the universe has previous knowledge of. These other jivas each further creating a universe within themselves in their after-life periods, with more jivas within them...with the cycle going ad-infinitum". As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma. We do have strong evidence for that. As I already presented. You need to understand first that, even the universal mind which projects the world as well as the entities incarnate and reincarnate within it, both/all of them are bound by their karma. Although, if more conscious the Jiva becomes, more ability it has - to act with freedom/freewill with less influence from karma. Some Yogis/saints/sages may take the position of such universal mind and project some highly sophisticated realities/universes/realms. Such Universal minds(Jivas(s)) may be with almost absolute freedom(E.g: Krishna in Goloka - Such Jiva(s) are not called as Jiva(s) They are called Bhagawan-Supreme Gods and goddesses for those who worship them). The Abodes/Realities/Universes/Worlds/Heavens what ever you want to call it; created by such Bhagawan/God like entities who have attained very highly unimaginable levels of consciousness/awareness are the worlds where suffering and reincarnation doesn't exist. Whether these worlds exist eternally or not I don't know. It may be a possibility, but I'm not sure. There may be infinite such worlds with varying degrees of sophistication. Depending upon the consciousness prevailing in any reality, reincarnation may or may not be a fact in that reality. May be even in our own realities, not every one reincarnate. I don't know how it works. What I do know is: Karma is what drives reincarnation or any other experience as an individuated entity. Having understood all of this clearly. Keeping the example of Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition in mind. If we think about each of the models you have presented, Even though you have presented them as if each of your models encompass all of absolute existence. Still it is possible to reduce them into different possible realities and it is easily possible that each of those models of reality may be truly be experienced in some of those universes/realities in some of those minds imagining/creating them. Even if such realities doesn't exist anywhere now, they can still be created by imagining them in a certain state of mind, either through Meditation(like mentioned in Yoga Vasishta) or even after Physical Death by keeping on intensely imagining them again and again in your living time now. So, scriptures say that In what ever state of mind you leave your body, during death, that state you'll attain without fail. This is just like how we dream at night about those things which we intensely contemplated in our waking state. Also, you'll only experience those realities and experiences, about which you have knowledge of or atleast related to your mental and karmic structure as a natural progression of your karma. Absolutely random experiences may be a very rare phenomenon. What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again Not necessary for all of creations to merge before other cycle of creations emerge. Infinite creations are keeping on emerging and dissolving infinitely in infinite minds simultaneously. This cycle never stops. Such is the nature of Brahman - Just like breathing is the nature of a human being. Having said that, this is only from the view given in the book:Yoga Vasishta. But, this also depends on your beliefs and world view. Remember: that you only experience what your mental structure believes and allows. The video posted above of Rupert Spira has somewhat a good explanation. For this very reason some people may remember some other people's experiences & memories as their own(As one can read somewhat similar experiences in Yoga Vasishta). But, he seems to assume all the individuated entities as loosely bound with loose covering. But, It is only true for certain individuals in certain states of karma and for certain periods and types of disembodiment. After death, it seems; generally the individuated entities are tightly bound with remaining 4 layers(more like aspects than layers) of coverings mostly intact which I have mentioned in my previous posts. Because of this, these entities acquiring the karmas and memories of other's may be rare. The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not. May be we need to experience Non-Dual enlightenment to understand this. "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" has said that merging into brahman is like a salt doll walking into the ocean. After merging with the ocean there is no coming back. Seems like all non dual scriptures say the same thing. I haven't studied all of them though. May be those who suffer too much choose to dissolve when such an opportunity presents itself. Whereas, those who improve more and more through their effort gain new heights of awareness and consciousness creating their own realities and living in it with full bliss eternally(? - I'm not sure). Sadhguru says in his book that there is no need to keep extending the individuation as every kind of universe has same fundamental structures. But, I don't agree with it. If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation. He himself admitted that he doesn't have much scriptural knowledge. Maybe, too much confidence in one's own ability without proper theoretical knowledge may create such illusions. Also, as I mentioned already, you can only experience those experiences you believe and have knowledge about. Interestingly in the Gaudiya vaishnava tradition, although some of them say that such merging is a permanent suicide. Others say that even attaining liberation through merging with brahman is useless because it is only temporary and after a while they again fall down from that position. May be in this situation is where Rupert Spira's explanation may make sense, because during merging with Brahman there are no coverings and all those layers are completely dismantled. So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma, For those individuals where such combination is not immediately available, maybe only they are created freshly without any karma. Maybe because the newly created individuals in this manner are not entirely uniquely their own selves as they previously were, it is for this reason that it may have been said that: once merged, its finished. It may also be possible that some or all of these merged entities when there is a compatible universe exists, each of these entire entities is brought back with the same configuration. And as such experience themselves as same persons they were before in one of their previous incarnations. The above cases makes sense because it is said that by doing samyama any information can be retrieved that one wishes to retrieve. It would only be possible if all the information is stored permanently somewhere. It is also possible that only information is permanent and not the individuals themselves with all their karmic configurations. Above all, it is also highly possible that each of these cases is possible in some versions of cultural realities whose cultures imagine realities in such different manners mentioned above. Absolutely anything seems to be possible(Both Possibility as well as Impossibility). In order to get proper understanding of reality, you have to read both of these books completely: (Even then you may not understand everything, But will definitely improve your knowledge) Please read this book(Yoga Vasishta) without skipping anything: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

@Breakingthewall infinite nothingness. If you are not 0 (nothing) you can never be with 1 and be 1, which is infinite nothingness. Rest is spiritual ego or business. Dont try to be rainbow cookie ?.

@Breakingthewall You are only getting started. There is much more to discover. Don't let the mind freak out too much. The nothingness is only one facet of a larger thing so keep exploring other facets. Try plugging instead of vaping.

What you call 'reality' exists of course, because you want it to. It's your dream. What is in front of me exists only because I'm dreaming it up. Unconsciously, most of the time, sure, but that's how I like it. You can't tickle yourself can you? Or surprise yourself? Haha. The funny thing is, you can and you do! Only you do it by imagining something 'that is not you' (your friend tickling you, or your girlfriend making a surprise party for you etc.) Look - you are fucking God. No need to speak of God as if God is some 3rd-person-outside-to-you. It is you! There is no duality! What you call duality is non-duality. Non-duality, duality. Let go of your mind games/logic-thinking/concepts/word-games and observe what is going on: it's all your dream. Your imagination. The coolest imagination is that in which I act like there exist something that is 'not-me' or 'out-of-my-control' -- that's very exciting, playful, very thrilling, fun...Love: that's 'other', that's you. God/I/You create apparent duality because of our non-dual nature. It's the only thing 'We' can "do", you see? We can only "do" duality. If We chose not to do anything then that's raw, pure, non-duality: total utterly empty nothingness/oneness. The funny thing is, it doesn't even matter if We do stuff or don't, it's still 'that' (nothing, imagination) if We do, and if We don't do, We do, because by not doing, in the totality of Our absolute emptiness We can't help but create...i.e. in absolute total nothingness exists naturally a potential for infinite dreams/things.

There is no reality or perception. All exist is nothing, and nothing can never be exist. Because of that it is nothing, therefore absolute. Infinite nothingness. Now.

Reality is the escape... In a way it's a realistic dream, its real because what you compare it with is nothingness.. Therefore it's the most real illusion there is.

The initial part of the experience is hellish for those I know who have had it (me included). Being absorbed into God isn't the same level as being embraced by God's Light -- the ecstatically beautiful experience of Lover and Beloved. Instead, it's like falling into a Black Hole where everything is sucked into nothingness except a Single Consciousness which is the one thing that exists. And you are It. There is an overwhelming loneliness and despair that comes with the awareness (which is also a tremendous sense of "remembering") that everything else -- all creation -- is a stupendous hallucination, a multidimensional holographic movie where the script writer, the producer, the director, all the actors, all the scenery and props -- it's all just One Being imagining it and pretending that it's real. http://web.archive.org/web/20130606091318/http://www.elcollie.com/st/god.html Not to mention the risk of psychosis,madness and feeling of unreality after these experiences... xDDD

Every word is not it. Because, IT IS NOTHING, which is you. Thats it. If you never learn you never born. God, consciousness, human, enlightenment, all is an illusion, including me and you (as self). These are all words. Just the SILENCE ITSELF. But be careful if you take yourself as real, you might get in big trouble at the future. Because nothingness can vanish you, and you as self try to bring yourself back, it might cost you major trauma . Trying to come back is an illusion. There is no coming back. Be careful my friend. Because when you go too deep, you can never come back.

Even the author there said he was in heavenly stages, Bliss and he fell into the void to finalize his awakening. Running away from bliss into nothingness what curious creatures we are.

No, it's something you are imagining I'm imagining The infinite regress to nothingness is not a bug, it's the prime feature. All roads lead to nothing and nowhere. Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind

The answer is so clear. The mind likes to over-complicate a Lot of things when they are so simple... In deep sleep there is no such thing as anything.. None.. Zero..all is gone.. No consciousness no self no other no existence no non-existence no nothingness no deep sleep even. It's so clear. You can mentally masturbate your way around this.. But I choose to go with obvious shit.

After awakening, schizophrenic thoughts raise up, i realize them and watch them. I am the schizophrenia, as much as it increases, awakening becomes more more more more more more. Love love love. No self, no self, no self. freedom, freedom, freedom. Nothingness, nothingness and nothingness. but if you take schizophrenic feeling as personal and hold on them, such as you are a person and having schizophrenia, you might suicide. Be very very very very careful.

no difference at all. What story do you want to believe in? I'd choose the story that maximizes your joy, happiness and outlook on your life. I do that myself, everything else seems rather silly. I could tell you there is direct experience/actuality behind it, but isn't that the case for all stories, all myths, including atheism? And what difference does it make to you if I say I'm following a belief system/3rd-part story or if there actually is actuality behind it? To you, it would still be hearsay in either case. Of course, to find out what is Absolutely True, you have to go beyond words, beyond beliefs. What is Absolutely True can't be explained with words, so of course I'm just having fun here, creating my own narrative, my own story. But of course there is actuality behind it. How could there not be? :> <3 All stories are stories. Everything that can be said with words is a story. The Absolute Truth of God/Nothingness/Love/Consciousness shows you that you are that itself: God, Nothing, Everything, Infinite Love/Consciousness. Thus you are in perfect control to create ANY story you want. No story is anymore true than any other story. Of course, some stories are more useful than other for particular things. Atheism/science is very bad at creating happiness, but is good at creating technology (which can help makes os happier in indirect ways). Religious stories are good at making us feel happy, but pretty bad at creating computers or medicine. Of course, the only story what will you make permanently infinitely happy is not a story, but the truth, which can't be put into words. It's right there in front of our eyes. God, Nothingness, Awareness whatever you wanna call the Absolute/Divine.

A byproduct of Centering Prayer meditation practice is 'objectless awareness' or non-conceptual awareness. To me if feels like a push beyond just plain inner silence. The range of human emotion has quite a spread. In the past I was especially bothered by constant neurotic internal dialogue. Just plain ole inner silence has felt like a blissful state of consciousness after months,, years, maybe where there was just confusion, no real understanding and often, a felt sense of meaninglessness. I'm still not above having negative states of consciousness, accompanied by too much thinking, slight paranoia with mumbles and argumentative jabs from the crew members of my ship of fools. The seas are just a little smoother than in the past. Excuse me please if I'm wearing out the allegory of the ship,,, It's an attempt at lightheartness concerning a serious state of affairs. It didn't really start that way for me but as time goes on, I find more and more depth to it. Maurice Nicoll's 1766 page Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky was so enjoyable to read that when I finished it I read it again just a few months later. This work has been condensed down to 130 Pages called Gems Of Wisdom, and its just one great quote after another. I'm not trying to sell anyone on the Fourth Way but just use what part of this that you find meaningful and leave the rest. I was just going to quote the first and third paragraph but I decided to just leave the 2nd in place even though it uses a specific term that may seem weird to some. Maybe not though. These quotes really seem applicable to the last couple of chapters. SEEING THE OPPOSITES “Try sometimes to see the opposite point of view to that which you hold...If the opposite is genuinely and with effort included in con- sciousness the sphere of consciousness is greatly increased and a number of unpleasant features in us disappear. Our one-sidedness, which causes our over-sensitive reactions and also our totally wrong ways of self-evaluation, is replaced by a broader, fuller consciousness. We can no longer insist we are right nor be cast down when proved to be wrong. We find it more difficult to be petty. In fact, we begin to escape from the prison of ourselves whose bars and gates result from our one-sidedness.” V. 5, p. 1521 THIRD FORCE “The Work teaches that there are three forces in every manifesta- tion. We see only two—if we see as far as that...Third Force lies between the opposites and so we can picture it as the mid-point of the pendulum-swing. If you take the feeling of ‘I’ out of both sides of the pendulum, then you do not feel yourself through the opposites and the feeling of ‘I’ moves to the centre, into nothingness, or, if you pre- fer, into not-somethingness. Here in the middle is the place or state where ‘Real I’ is.” V. 1, pp. 329-30 INNER SILENCE “Different ‘I’s, ranged along the orbit of the swing, wish to say now this and now that, as the light of consciousness touches them, wakes them to momentary life. To a limited extent one may permit them to speak, provided one has a distinct idea that neither side is right. Inner silence means being silent in oneself. It means not taking sides in yourself and so being silent. This is impossible if you identify with every ‘I.’ You may let talk take place on one side or the other, but you observe it and are in yourself silent.” V. 1, p. 334

When you say oneness, are you aware of your existence then, aware of your own awareness? Can you think during this time of oneness? Now that you have a profound experience, what would be your thoughts about Nothingness or Void that some people say they got stuck in during their experience which they say is existentially terrifying. where you scared in such manner at any point in your experience? Please refer to this first post on this page for what I'm referring to: When you say ceased, do you mean different from the oneness state? No awareness of even awareness? No thinking? no remembrance of any kind?

It's all imagination/dream/concept/ideas .... BUT: there are different layers/levels to this infinite dream of God/Love/Nothingness. The body, as well as all other apparant "material" forms is one layer of concept. Above this is apparant ego/person/separate self; it is even more abstract. Above this is family, community, society, global world, etc. Death *as a SUBJECIVE experience* is the shedding of all that isn't real. If your buddy dies, then this it is just you projecting out onto 'this world' that now some part of it has "died" , (your friend). This is just your own personal (selfish) interpretation of what is happening. You could as well say that your buddy got alive. It's a matter of perspective, narrative... what story do YOU want to create/hear? :-) You could as well just say that nothing is happening. It's just experience unfolding in infinity out of itself. This is nothingness. This is God. Love. The body is much more 'real' (but still unreal, still an imaginary distinction of infinity) than the ego. At least you can fucking see the body. The separate self, aka ego, is nowhere to be found:-) No ego disappear, cos there wasn't even an ego in the first place. All that disappear (during death) is the illusion of the ego ... the illusion of the separate self.

Hello everyone, Yesterday I had my first experience with the magical substance we call 5-MeO-DMT (HCI). I’m usually not one to write or post about my experiences, however I decided that I wanted to post about this. Most of all because the posts in this forum helped me a lot with my research before trying this and I hope my experience might help other as well. After all, we’re all on this journey together. Prior psychedelics experience Mushrooms, ayahuasca Basic info Dose: 11mg RoA: Insufflated Setting: Alone, in my own house Music: None Preparing and taking the 5-MeO I had two free days of work to try this for the first time, my initial plan was to use on both days. But later I will explain why I won’t do that. On the day of using I had a normal breakfast in the morning and after that still ate a banana. I waited till at least three hours after the banana so that my empty stomach would hopefully prevent any possible nausea. This worked very well, I would rate the nausea of my trip a 1 on a scale of 0-10. As it’s not easy for me to find a sitter I decided to try it alone. The research I had done made me comfortable enough to this. For what I’ve read people said that 10-12mg is a good starting dose so I decided to start with 11mg for the first time to see how I would react. I prepared a room to be safe for doing this. I weighed the 11mg and divided this in 2 equal lines and snorted one line per nostril. As I’ve read here on the forum I snorted with little power, got it all up there and then massaged it into my nostrils. The burning sensation (before & after) I found very doable, I would say a 3 on a scale of 0-10. The onset At this point I was still sitting up straight, gently massaging it into the nostrils while leaning my head a bit forward. I was of course a bit excited for what was to come, but felt comfortable. After some minutes the first thing I felt was a deep ‘buzzing’ sensation in my awareness, in some way similar to that of mushroom. My ego immediately though ‘Oh shit, what have I done’. This made the sensation go away again. Therefore I decided to lay myself down on the matrass. I laid down in fetes position, because I wanted to prevent to possible suddenly be out of my body and puking. Slowly but surely it got more intense. My thoughts and mind started to be clearer, like there was less unnecessary noise. However my ego tried de desperately grasp around it. Trying to rationalise everything that happened. I spent some time still looking at my hand, in some way to stay connected to the ‘reality’ of the ego. In between I shortly sit up straight again, my ego was really trying to keep control of the body. I had shortly a moment that my teeth where clattering and felt a little of saliva going out of my mouth. I was still aware enough to brush it off with my hand and decided to lay down again and surrender to the sensation. The peak All this time I still had my eyes open. I was laying on my side and looking at the wall. I started to feel more and more distanced from my body (really couldn’t tell if it felt heavier or lighter). Because of this I also gave up on looking to my hand (which I was doing again) and laid it on the floor. I told my ego to just let go. I was no longer looking at the wall with focus, everything became a vague blur. The more I could let go the more intense everything became. I started to close my eyes. I felt that my consciousness was being taken elsewhere. The best way to describe it is the void was calling me. I felt but the tiniest fraction of this vast nothingness. It was not scary at all, it was pretty calming somehow. For a short moment there where 0 thought and no awareness of the body at all. However this was in no way calming for my ego. Who still desperately tried to survive. While I experienced this fraction of the void, my ego was yelling ‘Hey bro, are you sure you are still breathing?’ From the moment I closed my eyes to this moment felt like maybe 5-10 seconds (very hard to say for sure though, but this is what I’d estimate). The ego made me aware that I was no longer aware of the fact that I was breathing. The ego managed to ‘scare’ me enough so that it felt like I wasn’t breathing. I took a deep breath and opened my eyes (still laying sideways). It felt like I was pulled out of this nothingness with such great force and smacked back into the reality of the ego. In some way this felt slightly like being reborn (or coming back, I’m sure it’s nothing compared to how a full breakthrough feels). Even though I was only gone for a mere few seconds it felt amazing to feel the breath going in my lungs and being a bit aware of my body. My ego immediately tried to rationalize again. Trying to figure out if I really wasn’t breathing or if it was only a sensation. I read about this sensation before, I tried to accept that it was just part of the experience and that I should let go. The same thing happened a few times more, I would say 5-6 times in total. Every time the ego said on what felt like the very last moment ‘Dude, breathe!’ In the moment I felt like I wasn’t breathing I tried to feel if my body was breathing without my noticing it. In some way it felt like it did, but I couldn’t be sure. After I took these breaths I also didn’t feel too much out of breath. But it was also very hard to say how long these very short moments in the nothingness really were. These 5-6 times were very intense. It felt like I was jumping in between realms, however not fully leaving the realm of the ego. I obviously couldn’t let go. I wasn’t ready enough to die yet. I felt a mere fraction of what is out here and something told me that this was enough for today. The offset After this I went back to sitting up straight. I know I probably didn’t even go so deep, but man what a ride it was. When sitting up straight everything suddenly became so clear, how there is such a perfect harmony in everything. As others here also describe it, I would say this feeling was pure bliss. This feeling gave me many realizations. How controlling I am in life, how hard it is for me to let go of things I hold on to. All this suffering I do for myself, truly for no reason at all. Everything just made so much sense. It was such a calming feeling. I sat with my hands in my head, with a big smile and almost crying of some sort of relief. Man, what did I waste so much energy on unnecessary things. And what a big joke it just all was. I felt a lot of love. After some point I became more active with my body again. First moving my arms around a bit which felt great. A bit later I decided to go to the toilet and have a glass of water on the couch. I felt so at peace. I ate some fruit and it tasted much more intense than normally. My awareness was still really high and I just enjoyed watching the trees outside. This feeling slowly faded more, also as the ego was trying to get fully back and offering me to go do some chores. Since then I still feel much calmer than usual. The night after I’ve read about it here more often that people have some after affects while sleeping after using this substance. In the night after using I woke up a few times. This isn’t anything unusual for me, however the weird thing is that usually you don’t notice it that much. Now it felt like I want from deep sleep to fully awake in a mere second multiple times. Later in the night I woke up for longer. I was hearing voices talking. First I thought, is it the neighbours in their garden? But it was the middle of the night. When I focused on it, it got more and more intense. To at some point it felt like there was the chattering of a 100 people in my mind. I thought it was probably because of the 5-MeO and told myself to let it go. When I let it go, it was gone immediately. However these kind of sensations went on and off for some time, as I had to focus on not hearing things. It was a bit stressing, but nothing too much. Later in the night I still had a very intense dream and also a nightmare, however I’m not sure in how far this was related to the substance. Conclusion In conclusion I look back on a positive first trip which has already given me some important insights. I have to stop trying to control everything so much and allow myself to enjoy this beautiful dance. All the suffering I endure, I create myself. As I’ve described I first wanted to use the second day again. However, because of the breathing and the weird night sleep I first want to wait a bit with it. It doesn’t feel right today. First I want to see if the sleeping gets back to normal before I might make things worse. As for the breathing, I would also like to hear the opinion from experienced people here. I know that not everybody has this sensation, but is it okay to fully let go of it? I know Leo commented somewhere that this can be lethal at high dosages, but does this make it safe in normal dosages? I’ve read somewhere that this sensation is not a genuine or dangerous sensation (see Psychonaut-wiki). Of course I am aware that you shouldn’t take this if you’re not willing to let go. I want to treat this substance with the care and respect it needs and might have to consider to otherwise to find a sitter or to stop my journey. I hope you’ve enjoyed reading this report and that I might be able to help some others by sharing this experience. I wish you all the best!