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Fucking money. Seems like a lot of you are trying to help him but missing the point and seeing it as just an emotional, psychological problem. But sometimes, people are so far down into physical challenges and financial scarcity that emotional/spiritual development can't really help them improve, only cope. And if fear of death is overcome, and there is no foreseeable way out of constant biological suffering, suicide can look like an option. I obviously don't know the nuances of his situation, but I know my own suicidal thoughts would stop if I just was provided with a safe and comfortable place to live and quiet place to sleep. From that springboard I imagine it would be possible to self-actualize financially, but when dealing with chronic sleep deprivation all I can really do is suffer through existence. If the OP has a way to meet basic needs and reject the role of family provider thrust upon him, why kill himself? From my point of view people end their lives for the stupidest of reasons. The things that bother me most are what feels like blatantly obvious short-sightedness and inefficiency. On the microscale, people feeling depressed over things that can easily be changed by changing their mental perspectives, their diet, physical body practices, and emotional self-hacking. On the macro-scale, a capitalist world where productivity is higher than ever, but individual survival still depends upon somehow making money. On the personal level, the feeling that there is nothing I can do except tell depressed people 'you're full of shit, get over yourself,' decry the detriments of capitalism, and feel too burdened by my own suffering to help others escape theirs.

@Baotrader I had a major insight from Byron Katie about why suicide doesn’t help in ending suffering. It’s because there will be no ‘you’ to realise that you’re dead. And so, in a twisted fate of luck, you will live in eternal suffering. But anyway, if that is your decision, then I respect it. Good luck my friend.

Is suicide justified?

To quote a suicide survivor “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

You're doing a huge service. So first off thank you. I’ve been in that spot when I was a teenager (can’t believe I’m saying that) when I was suicidal at that time and man, if you reach just 1 person who really hears you and feels you, that 1 person is more than you could probably ask for if you really impact them. I remember there would be suicide awareness speeches in my high school and whenever we had a good speaker, I literally felt that he was talking to me and I felt acknowledged and heard. As far as the hero’s journey, how deep are you going with it because obviously as a lot of us here on this forum know, what the hero’s journey is really pointing to is awakening and enlightenment and obviously those guys probably wouldn’t be that receptive to that if you’re being direct. For me, when I actually talk about the hero’s journey to people I actually get emotional (not in the sense that I’m crying) and people really feel that and it’s usually my strength when I communicate that I communicate from the heart and I do so emphatically and genuinely and people can really feel that off me when I do. So yeah, maybe food for thought.

After hours of work... EDIT YEARS OF MEDITATION DOUBLE EDIT: I AM GRANTED THAT I HAVE NEVER OWNED A PENIS AND I DON'T EXIST. I don't really get why would anyone chase enlightenment just for a mental suicide.

Disclaimer: I am no way shape or form advocating physical suicide. I know this might sound like a silly question and I feel as though the answer won't be known till I do work, but I'm asking it anyway. I feel like it's starting to hit me that this whole Enlightenment stuff is serious shit. Whenever I talk about Enlightenment there's a tendency for me to compartmentalise stuff and forget I'm talking about the nature of all existence and reality itself. I remember I was meditating yesterday and had just a few moments of clear perception. It freaks me the hell out because it was like I was never there. I'm just feeling scared now after that experience. It felt extremely beautiful to me yesterday but right now I'm just freaking out for some reason. My mind is just racing with the thought "I don't want to die" and I'm just having a existential crisis. I'm wishing I never did any of this meditation or consciousness work in the first place, because it's making me think that I can delude myself into thinking I'm alive but I've always been dead and have just been an empty void. I feel like I'm going insane. I'm just feeling a wave of negativity. I know that the way I'm phrasing it is silly and unuanced but I'm just curious about people who are completely enlightened (if such a thing is 100% possible). Are these people like talking corpses? All these words can come out their mouth and it looks like they're alive, but they're really dead?

I know I shouldnt interact with people when in the lower self because I'm just miserable, cant focus on them at all,will pity myself or if I can fake it for a while they will at least definitely know something is up. The problem is I'm in my lower self 99% of the time. I just sit in my room lonely, not motivated to do anything. I can use meditation or sedona to release these negative emotions and it will work for about an hour and then they come back. Or maybe I'm feeling good for a day and I think this is it, I finally made progress. And the next day I'm back to zero. There was a time where I just hated work days and on the weekend I could relax and have fun with a videogame. This is not possible anymore, I'm suffering on the weekends now too. I cant bring myself to even play a video game or watch a movie or really do anything. I talked about this with my parents and they are very worried about the direction my life is heading, alone, no relationship, smoking a lot, really no happiness in my life. I can tolerate going to work for now but I wonder for how long. If I had to describe how I feel its just wave after wave of sadness. It doesnt matter if I'm conscious of it or not, the waves come. Its just my normal way of being. And I dont know if thats really a way to live life. At my worst times I think about suicide a lot I just cant sustain a normal level of happiness.

Suicide is cautioned against because if there is one birth, there is another -- there is reincarnation. Suicide doesn't mean you solve your problem. You simply get born again and have to face life's pain all over again, from the start. Better to commit the real suicide -- the one that kills the false self -- which can only happen through inquiry. Then you recognize divine immortality instead of being born again. Then you get all the benefits of life, and all the benefits of death. The video is ok, not great. There's a little truth to it, but it's also misleading. It implies that first there was a person and then it was sucked in and totally disappears, when in fact the realization is that there was never a person. Also, the Self is not this homogenous ball. But it's hard to represent the Truth in images. From the standpoint of enlightenment, the real truth is that there are no other people. Or if there are, they are all enlightened. But if you mean someone who has explicitly sought and seemed to have found and whose understanding is perfect, then no. I don't know what that would be like. It's hard to say, really, about the rest. The problem I was always different... always a little strange. So hard to say how much spirituality changes that fact. I think people seek my presence a bit more, but it's also hard to say for sure. Whether the bodhisattva can sustain a relationship with someone not interested in spiritual work doesn't really depend on their enlightenment but on their prior karma. That's what runs their bodies and minds. Finally, in fact there cannot be said to be any form. But if there is, then just as there are worlds with pain and suffering, there are surely worlds without -- as there are hells, there are heavens. Though even heaven is hell compared to the perfect realization of the Self. Because the realized one sees the truth that what appears to be suffering and pain is actually nothing other than grace and perfection.

@Pookie please don't tell that to psychiatrists hahaha! they're close-minded. and no talking about suicide/homicide with a therapist!

There's so much to say about this topic. ❤️ Suicidal thoughts and suffering was a huge part of my life growing up so I have a good amount of experience with it to the point of adoring it just as much as the "good stuff." For a long time I had a natural, intrinsic curiosity for pain and suffering and how it corresponds to empathy, and how it can help someone gain their empathy and emotional connection to the world. The more pain, hardship, and turmoil one goes through, the more likely they are to feel empathy towards others because now they can actually say they had direct experience with pain themselves, therefore it is to be deeply felt & understood and even appreciated. When I was 14 years old, I attempted suicide and eventually was led to the hospital because of it. The reason why was because I was dealing with so much internal adversity and struggle for a very long time, and once I hit my teens and discovered/fully grasped that what I went through as a child was completely inhumane and wrong, it was difficult for me to handle this massive awakening alone at this age. And it was indeed a massive awakening. However, I always felt like feeling, releasing and surrendering to my pain in numerous ways was extremely liberating and even then I embraced the pain I was going through. This whole experience was one of the most significant experiences of my life. It is a long story so I won't go too far but being at such an age, being hospitalized, diving into the domain of psychology right before my eyes, it all helped me learn and grow tremendously. Looking back on it now, it was pretty much one of the best moments of my life because not only did I feel so free from the internal battles in which I was dealing with for so long, but everything was finally disclosed and released, I gained wisdom and emotional relief because I had no other choice but to inform my parents/family the things that happened to me. It was painful at first and scary because I didn't want anyone to know what occurred, I didn't want to see them in pain, but in the end it only brought us to the Truth, tackled and captivated the darkness that could no longer be ignored, and granted freedom from an internal cage. Ironically, these suicidal thoughts and ideas and attempts only led me to feeling completely alive again. It was a brand new beginning for me and the start of my whole entire lifelong journey of healing through the craft of spirituality.

@Rilles he is saying that suicide and shit like that are things that all things that a first world mind will consider because of how spoiled it is. Notice how you don't typically hear of people in Africa or a lower economically developed country, committing suicide. They hold onto the idea that life will be better in the future. But that's always what the mind does, the person is always waiting for the day where they life is fulfilling. But it never does. Because of the fallen state of the mind, happiness will always be "somewhere else." And it's just that in the developed world, where money, sex and relaxation are plentiful, there is little else for the mind to believe in. So it's a bit of a brat. But meditation is suicide. Everything that is painful and depressive in you is imagination I'm pretty sure. But yeah, outside of "spirituality" and wisdom...my philosophy regarding suicide is that if I was really going to put a bullet through this thing I call "my head", then i would probably do some mad fun shit first. Like, if I'm prepared to do that, then I'll be prepared to say fuck it and go on 5 holidays, do loads of drugs and crash my car. Like why would you just kill yourself. You'd be better to have a bit of fun. Just change your life dramatically. But Leo's advice is the best. Anything that isint the one who observes is, by definition, not you...including wanting to die. But yo, you wouldn't get a chance to be enlightened if u did. So for my it's just not logical, even if I were to feel like doing it. At least have some fun and go nuts first like

yes, I've felt that, I was homeless once with a child, we had to live in a walk-in closet for 6 months, I've gone without food, been beaten, etc, etc, etc money troubles and trying to survive can be so hard I thought about suicide a lot, and took a lot of chances where I might die by accident but it never happened the thing is, that today, I am so glad I didn't die spiritually though, if you die without going through this then won't you just go through it again in the next life? might as well just plow though, I hope things turn around for you soon <3

Go with them, suicide the old you, your personality, your old patterns. Go with the flow to find bliss.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/ Suicide rates are higher in more ”privileged” countries.

@winterknight i have communicated with you several times in this thread, mostly with asking questions. Now i feel like i want to share some of my backgrounds with you. I had my last profound experience in 2016 december/ 2017 january. I havent had that much meditation experience before, i wasn't even familiar with the word self inquiry. Before that, i was suffering greatly for several months. It felt like i am finished, i have no reason to live in this world, i felt i should suicide and there is no way out from this misery. I was like a complete hell. I didn't know where i was going in my journey of life. Until something happened.... One day, something inside of me said to me to STOP. And suddenly i stopped. I noficed my thought is happening, and i am just beginning to watch it like a observer. It was like a movie. I realized my thoughts were not me. I felt like something very big fell upon me. It was shocking. Then i felt something inside me guiding me to take a tour with him/her/entity. I gone along with it, and it showed me really very profound things, things that i couldn't even believe! One might ask what was those, but really, i felt like i can not describe those in words, they are so profound and complex. I saw my suffering and that entity showed me those were not even existed in the first place! Then it showed me how i created those sufferings! Watching that, i became really very sad, depressed. It showed me that i am a creator and how i create, things! This period went for several days and those were so profound that i even regreted that why would i have to take food and bath because it felt like waste of time. I was eager to see those things. It finally showed me that i do not exist. It showed me happiness, sadness, depression, sexuality, guilt, shame, sweetness and many things. I felt like its just a layer and there is more to see more to dive deeper. After some days it went away. But i wasnt the same me i was before. I felt that i died. Literally died. After some days of sadness, i became surprisingly happy. I felt joy in my heart. I felt fresh, even the joy was so great that one night i literally was jumping in a street with no reason. And it was giving me tremendous happiness. I thought this feeling will be always there for me. But i was wrong. Now i want to hear from you. What do you think? What was that? What happened to me? Was it some sort of enlightenment? N.B - at that time as i remember now is that i didnt even know the word enlightenment and what it is.

@Leo Gura if you think this post is too negative, just close it. I just want to have an honest discussion. I have been having suicidal thoughts after quite a lot of meditation. I am beginning to wonder if suicide is better for some people? Some pp are in extreme suffering. They put their body under tonnes of pain just to make money to live by days. Isn't it better to kill yourself if you live in such conditions? And after my self-inquiry i have realized the reason those people don't commit suicide is because they are afraid of the physical pains they would have to go through to meet death. Most countries don't allow guns anyway. If people are honest i bet most will admit they wish they would never have been born into this miserable world. If anyone is angry at the last sentence feel free to throw that on me

thank you great people for attending i know that ego is not physical but still suicide and shedding the ego are somehow similar because they both get ride of the concept and dont worry i wont suicide because im scared of losing my identity just like how people get scared during trips or after years of meditation but i think that people should stop demonizing things and that suicide is worth thinking about. maybe thats the fastest way to truth and how can reality , something thats infinite (at least people say so) be joy? something so simple . that does not seem right to me and in my opinion you cant be loving in that sense because still there is some selfishness in it and in best case scenario's you are doing loving things so your ego can feel good about itself and true love can be achieved only by shedding the ego really cool insights my friend but you see in my opinion I am the small self.everything i identify with : my parents , my body , things that happened to me. the small self is these projections(amirali). and i know that there is something beyond but still getting over who you are and what you identify with is really hard at least for me actually this is what i got to during my contemplation and trips but the thing is i havent seen beyond the persona but i know that i am the persona and I started these techniques and consciousness works to make a better persona . seems like ive been wrong this whole time and its better to kill or defrag the persona i couldnt agree more but you see "i am the illusion" . you have to agree mate that its a hard pill to swallow .and you know whats even harder? that by doing meditation , psychedelics , ... i am getting rid of the illusion = i am getting rid of myself. thank you all for your great insights . maybe im just making a big deal out of it

There is nothing to be dissolved or killed. There is no being. There is no experience. There is no self to be benefited and nobody to commit suicide. Ideas are fooling a person that is merely an idea.

Welcome! 1. You're already doing it. You have the wrong idea of ego/self - It's conceptual, not physical. The 'death of physical' is the end of the falsity that there was ever such a thing as physical. Joy is. Concerns over physical, death, self doubt, worry, fear, lack - these 'cover' or veil reality / the joy - and keep your mind thinking, when you could be loving. 2. Someone confused you with 'physical death', understandably, you have equated it to suicide. Don't do that. You won't experience formlessness in the sense you understand it now. Your perspective of what you are, and what the world is will change. For the better.

This whole accusation that well known people are responsible for the negative consequences/outcomes of a tragic event among someone is so common and over-rated, it has been happening far too long. People seem to forget about freewill and free choice and how when you make a decision to do something, you're consciously making that decision, so therefore no one else is responsible for your actions except yourself. Have you ever heard of the Ozzy Osbourne story where these two teenage boys dropped acid and listened to the song "Suicide Solution" and it allegedly motivated them to take their own lives during their trip? Ironically, the song was written about the dangers of drugs & alcohol. But of course the media blamed the creators of the song saying, "The song caused this tragic incident." What they didn't put into consideration was the initial mindsets of these kids. That they were simply juvenile, uneducated and vulnerable to the drug, not anywhere near ready to explore it. For example, if they were anywhere remotely ready, they would have at least had the knowledge & awareness to ask themselves if it would have been the proper song to hear during their experience. I mean just by the title alone, it seems rather misleading, and one should be able to draw that conclusion. Like if I was them perhaps I'd have chosen "Mr. Crowley" over "Suicide Solution", if any. It wasn't the song's fault, it was poor choice in music at the wrong time. But they simply didn't realize that this drug can create direct parallel channels & links to circumstances in which one may or may not take into literal account. In which something can feel highly relative to someone and be considered an all encompassing "solution" or "answer" to them in that moment. I wouldn't blame them though because they simply didn't know any better, neither do I blame the song or the psychedelic but only the entirety of circumstances behind the story. This is one reason, however, why I wouldn't normally recommend music to starter trippers. Because I understand the deep emotional & psychological affects music can have on the brain when you're sober, let alone tripping balls. I mean look at how much denigration and demonetization there was towards Rock n' Roll when it first started to blossom and reach its revolutionary summit because of course, most of its origins were heavily influenced and derived from The Occult so it must've been "evil" and "dangerous" and called "Devil's music." It's purely a lack of reading.

hi my name is amirali and im an 19 year old college student from iran . this is my first post and im excited to be a part of this community. before i ask my questions i want to add that i will use the word "self" instead of "ego" . in my opinion the world ego can be a bit misleading because in my case amirali is the ego and not a separate entity and i did not notice this till recently . now lets get to questions : 1: enlightenment means dissolving or killing the self , how fully enlightened beings or someone with no sense of self can even function (walk,talk,socialize,...) as a human being? or they describe enlightenment as being joyful or stronger than any drug highs, how can I experience joy when there is no me?! 2: after my recent trip i realized that by doing consciousness work im actually killing myself ! how can killing the self or in other words dissolving the ego slowly but surely benefiet the self ?! even so why not just suicide? for the first question i've got some idea's . by killing the self you become formless so you can take many forms . im not so sure about that and would like to hear your opinions too. I'd appreciate you sharing your answer and forgive me for any grammatical mistakes

English is not my first language. Read only the bold text for a general idea. Fact/Force No 1: Self Actualization feels like the one true thing, the path to follow, the source of meaning and value to oneself and to all existence. It is the highest Maslow need and, as highly developed individuals, we feel attracted to pursue it Fact/Force No 2: Self actualization is threatening to the ego and constantly attacks it, since you can think and experiment the fact that the ego is a blatant illusion and it is somehow funny how we keep doing it even though its clearly ridiculous. The ego is extremely potent after all these years of conditioning and is capable of producing really horrible sensations and feelings that you are about to lose your mind/suicide, and in losing your mind you will never be able to self actualize any further. Therefore, there is an opposing force to self actualization work. Situation: Right now, I'm in a sensitive moment, living in another city, doing hard work, far from my friends and family, with not much comfort/money (it is temporary and I will be back in my city in one week, so it's not like I need to stop and go back to work on the previous levels of Maslow's needs, because I honestly got all that working already). Still, I kept a high load of self-development work, taking advantage of this new moment that I'm living, and therefore force No 2 is starting to get way too intense. The discussion: What should a self-actualizing individual do in this moment? Actively decide to numb down the SA work for a week or two and then resume it? Keep hammering it because the ego suffering is actually good to shatter the illusion even though it feels really bad? Is there a strategy/system to manage the balance between the two forces? I need some light from this brilliant community. Thanks for the insights =)

@Shan I haven't reduced my very high anxiety to anything close to the ideal level but I feel it improving now. In the past I've had panic attacks where I hyperventilate for 30 mins straight and have had a few times where I frantically search the Internet on methods for suicide. The best thing I think you can do is mindful suffering. Suffering which is done mindfully is best done when you're meditating or something. Being mindful of suffering in your day to day life is hard unless you're consciousness is already high enough to try to be. Yesterday I was meditating for 1hr for example, and I was trying to maintain most of my posture. In my mine came up these thoughts "I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape.... It hurts It hurts It hurts.." but through meditation you force both your conscious and subconscious mind to react differently to pain. There were times yesterday when my conscious mind was trying to be okay and accepting the pain, realising that a sensation in your consciousness is neither inherently good or bad. But despite this my subconscious mind was in overdrive, providing so much resistance. But throughout the session my resistance was dissolving as mindfulness increased. Meditation when done right is good for general happiness and anxiety. You're confronting your bodies fight or flight response "I want to escape I want to escape I want to escape" and are dissolving it. Your anxiety will also start to fade as you pay attention deeply to what this "I" that wants to escape is. The way I see it, you can conceptualise anxiety as an over the top reaction to some "negative" circumstance. And you want to rewire those reactions.

@Leo Gura Great response from Leo. Although I don't know if easing off the medication is the right approach as they could literally save your life (stop suicide). But I'm in 2 minds with this. @Anirban657 I'm sorry to hear this ♥️ I also believe that your condition is due to repressed trauma. I've recently started seeing a private therapist who offers the humanistic approach to therapy and so far it's amazing. I highly recommend. I pay for it, it's worth every penny. Could you have a scan online? Also (as much as possible)... * Eat healthily * Exercise regularly * Be out in nature regularly * Try and sleep well if you can (a good routine) Sending you so much love ♥️