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@Arhattobe The psychedelic is a transformative tool. You are judging is improperly when you judged it like so: If it fully enlightens me in one go, then it's good. If it doesn't, then it's bad and useless. If you're gonna use that criterion, then you should apply it equally to meditation. Like so: if I sit down and meditate for 30 minutes and it fully enlightens me, then I will do it and it's good. But if doesn't, then it's bad and I'm never going to meditate again. How many meditation sits does it take to become stably awakened? 1000? 5000? 10,000? Now apply those numbers to psychedelics. So your comparison is fair. What would happen if you did 1000 trips? Would you become stably awake? If so, you'd beat mediation by 10x. Why do I have a deeper understanding of metaphysical reality than Shinzen Young, who has 40 years of professional practice while I have less than 5 years of amateur practice? How do you explain that? There's some facts and statistics for ya. You see, there's more to this than just awakening. You must look at psychedelics as a holistic tool for self-awareness, personal development, and mental health.

Facts and statistics are not things people like it seems. No one asides Martin has awakened. Stably and permanently via psychs, and he has massive issues. With all the psychedelics and insights people on this forum “integrate” you would think it would be littered with people at least awakened on some basic level. Stably and with a sober mind.

@Leo Gura can you please talk about what insights mean or what they are... In the context of the absolute vs the dream? Isn't all those insights ultimately knowledge? Which is all relative so to speak? But I guess that doesn't mean that it's not "true" or helpful... Kinda answering myself here But a question also about awakened masters for example sadhguru or mooji... They dont talk about infinty of God as you do... Or all other radical implications... Is it fair to say that although they are great masters... Their understanding also maybe "limited" compared to yours... In that you have got the ultimate guru and assistance of 5meo-dmt on your side. Also, even the buddah/Jesus etc, may not have had the intellectual understanding deep enough to translate various facets of being God as you do? Again, all to do with the teachings being contemporary and linked with the time era Being lived in.

Just for the fun of conversation, does your experience encompass the actual truth? For instance, it didn't happen to you and a few others you observed, so its the case now? But it did happen to me, and those I know and a number of awakened teachers from books they wrote or talks that gave. So theres evidence that it doesn't just happen to "noobs". Also I think if your honest with yourself, you really can't say for certain how you will respond to the yet to be created future and what life with mold you as and throw at "you".

For your own sake I sure hope you don't eat your own words, but let me tell you, it has nothing with being a noob, lol. Insanity or the cusp ofi is talked about by a number of awakened teachers, many of which were not "noobs" at the point in which it happened. Trust me you will change your toon real quick if life puts you in such a situation in your now beyond noobness.

Ya it sounds like you should listen to your sense that looking into this negative "being bad" could be helpful. And your right about it maybe making you temporarily "depressed". This can happen when we face structures like this in ourselves. But when this happens remind yourself that this is what can happen and its temporary and things will improve when you see through the things you are facing. Often what happens for people is they start looking into something like this, start to feel bad, doubful, less of themselves, that theres a bigger problem then there is (any number of things can happen in ones mind/experience) and they contract back in avoiding the issue they wanted to face. Of course if things get really out of control and unsafe, then you may want to back off and reassess and perhaps get help from others that can help you through these challenging times/issues (which if it ever comes up, you can message me and I'll try and help you through with my experience). Out of curiosity do you feel like you have long term negative mind states from your psychedelic/spiritual experiences? As for me I had a traumatic spiritual awakening years ago in which I felt everything I knew myself to be changed radically fast and I felt forced to do/act in ways that didn't make sense to me. I became WAAAAY to sensitive to any amount of suffering or potential danger and over compensating by almost being OCD. This lasted in various ways off and on for years. A few years ago this all came to a head in a series of spiritual awakenings,facing some real potential dangers and a few encounters with angels/spirits that healed something in my heart as well as helping me face the reality of death and danger as a inherent Truth in life. While i can't tell you how it turned out in the end, since I'm still alive its radically better and in the process of the whole thing, I have become awakened to my true nature and all sorts of unexpected Truths I had only read about and wanted to understand at one point, but for what ever reason was unable to see in my earlier years.

@thesmileyone The ego is not a singular thing. Your chakric system carries karmic impressions through out your nervous system and body. Mere mind body disidentification, knowing who you are, and non duality does not rid you of them. Nor should it be considered enlightenment. Yet it is. People greatly exaggerate what being in a permanent awakened state means, because of fantastical thinking, escapism and lack of genuine listening. Nearly all non dual teachers say they learned, the hard way, they still had a ton of growing to do post awakening, and still suffered. Examples include : adyashanti, Jeff foster, jan esmann, David spero, Maharishi mahesh yogi. Just to name a few. Selective hearing doesn’t allow people to look at things honestly though.

Also, Leo is awakened.

If you’ve had an awakening. I would recommend picking up a traditional path. Zen or Theravada Buddhism, and sticking to it. There is great depth in traditions. People on this forum lack. Post awakening this place will just be a place to reaffirm your beliefs and perspective. Nothing more. Will go something like this. “Post” random person : “non dual line from the non dual bible” another person : “yes, non dual line from the non dual bible” Yet another person : “no, non dual line from the non dual bible” Also if 5 meo was all it’s cracked up to be. Most the people on this forum wouldn’t all be desperately clinging to their non dual beliefs with a ton of neurosis they deny. Most not in a permanent awakened state. Including Leo. Nor would Martin ball. The primary advocate of said drug be having massive chemical imbalances within his system, that didn’t allow him to sleep for 6 days straight. I’ve done 5 meo too. More than a few times. Not just speaking without experience.

those are attempts to explain their first hand direct experiences and comprehensions about what awakening is and how the process of awakening occurs in the human realm. but if you ever get really close to a serious zen lineage, you will notice that there are teachings about how to behave and (thank god) they are very rigorous. the difference is that zen does not teach you about Truth. zen is only a method for you to experience it by yourself. a true zen master is awakened to the nature of God and is able to recognize students who are seriously aware of God. the teaching of "there are no teachings" is not absolute. it serves people in a very specific level of practice. but such teaching does not qualify as a general teaching of zen. serious zen lineages come from the teaching of the original buddha and their teachings are the noble 8-fold path.

It's verifyable that on the level of personality, there is a definite tendency to project ones shadow onto others and so not claim it in oneself. There seems to be layers of depth to this. Its common to be annoyed or to even hate others who closely share our own chief feature (blindspot) to an extent. Shadow material which is repressed, needs to have the light of Consciousness reveal and heal. I catch a glimpse of being a know-it-all and then I overcompensate into false humility. Like a Zigzag Idiot who has five Friday's in a week. I think quite a few people who are exposed to the idea of everyone having a psychological blindspot immediately has personal experiences which come to mind on the surface of this subject. I've had a realization about bringing up issues like projection, imagination, lying, self deception, self importance, spiritual egotism, false personality, It provokes some people but not others. I still catch my ego projecting in different ways. I think everyone psychologically projects onto there's. It's everywhere. Even so called awakened or enlightened people seem to do it to some extent. If nothing else, we project labels onto people. Or find a way to categorize them in semiconscious ways.

I have been awakened for some time but I am not enlightened or anywhere near it in my opinion, though this seems to depend on what enlightenment is; for some enlightenment is simple nondoership nonduality ie Gary Weber who claims to never have thoughts all the way through to people like Dan Ingram who claim Arahantship and therefore have freed themselves of all 10 buddhist fetters, something I highely doubt btw. I had a huge shift yesturday, but different to most shifts where some part of "me" is chipped away and promptly replaced or uncovers something below it to replace it, this time round it got chipped away and nothing replaced it. Hard to put into words. These last few weeks I have felt somewhat lost, reading into different systems and different paths and different definitions of the usual definitions we use here. Then yesturday this shift occured and I don't feel lost anymore, nor do I really have questions either. I don't really have words for how I actually feel. I got drunk earlier, like totally hammered, just because I was bored, and didn't enjoy it, the whole time I was drunk it was like the, and I put it in speech marks again because it doesn't feel like the definition' "Consciousness" was pulsing away. I am done with drinking now, I feel like I no longer need it. The funny thing is I watched a video about how alcohol and spirituality are a no no and instead of commenting and arguing I realised I might be wrong about it...whilst I was fully drunk. So even when fully drunk I was not behaving / processing like I used to when I was 100% "me". Maybe this is an accurate way to explain how I feel actually. I feel like "Consciousness" which has always been in the background is now further in the foreground. Does that make sense? It also feels like it tried to force it's way fully into the foreground the other day but I saw it as "ego death" and had a panic attack about it (hence my thread a few days ago) so it held back and came in a different, more subtle way. Yeah that explains it. It feels like there is less "me" and more "Consciousness" inside my body (but also in everything outside the body) whereas before it was pretty much 50/50. It will be interesting to see how it takes shape in the long term, if it becomes more or less than "me". The only other thing I have noticed is I have been watching older Victor Oddo videos and when i watched them before, I didn't really get them, now they feel like reinforced second nature. I guess because I have experienced what he said vs trying to learn/process it via the mind.

I wouldn't say awakened because my awakening was over a couple of years ago. I am permanently conscious of God. "how is that your awakening dissapeared but you went into state of emptiness/no-self. isn't that the two same things?" No, they were not the same things for me. How did it dissappear? Too magical to put in words. Sorry I just can't really describe how it suddenly disappeared using words.

@Highest so are you permanently awakened? i didnt understand how is that your awakening dissapeared but you went into state of emptiness/no-self. isn't that the two same things?

I've been intrigued by the idea of the helpers moreso than the Sage. An uplifting idea from the Oracle that one can free an army of helpers to assist us when we are balanced and in harmony with the Cosmos. This is from a previous post in my Journal; ,,,,,,,,,when the heart is awakened and purified. Looking at the Cosmos through the I-CHING. This same inner process allows assistance from the "helpers" who are defined as individualized aspects of the Cosmic Consciousness and of nature that are neither humans nor Angels. Carol Anthony claimed that divination revealed to her that the identity of the "helpers" are what's known today as the phenomenon of "Orbs". Activation of the helpers can only happen when we are in harmony with the Cosmos. In that sense, subservience is just as detrimental as arrogance. The helpers are activated by one's contact with the harmony of the inner truth of one's True Self. Returning to the vocabulary of Esoteric Christianity, I correlate this harmony as one being in contact with awakened Conscience. This short article may be helpful if anyone is following along; Article 1. The Sage as our Cosmic Teacher by Carol and Hanna © by Carol Anthony and Hanna Moog Carol’s experience of the Sage in the 1970’s was of an alive consciousness that wants to communicate with us. This took away for her the understanding that what we read in the written text of the book, is all we have for an oracle. It becomes apparent through its use that the I Ching is a Cosmic gift to humans. Its purpose is show people (1) the nature of the Cosmos as a system of Principles of Harmony, (2) our true human nature, and (3) the way we individually can return to harmony with these Cosmic Principles when we have lost our way. The Sage, as part of this interaction, is a presence within us that uses the oracle to draw up from the depths of our nature, our innate knowledge of Cosmic truth. (This truth is contained in the DNA of every body cell.) The I Ching Hexagram 61, titled “Inner Truth,” refers to this source that is stored in our bodies, not in words, but in the form of feelings of what is harmonious and what is not. Thus, the Sage uses the I Ching to speak through its text, but the text itself is not the oracle. The Sage makes it clear, through the method we call the retrospective-three-coin-method, or “rtcm” (which will be described in our next article), that it does not teach us the handed down platitudes that have often been taken as ‘ancient wisdom.’ It rather discourages this kind of memorized mental approach by reaching into our own deepest inner truth to bring forth the answers that are already there. We find, in so doing, that our inner truth has been suppressed in favor of these platitudes and commandments. That is why, on finding the answer we need, we recognize that we “knew that” all along, but did not dare to trust it. Thus, we find that the Sage is all the time connecting us with a part of ourselves that has been repressed through conditioning. This process of reaching into the depths is described in Hexagram 48, “The Well,” which calls our inner truth “a clear, cold spring from which one can drink.” Often, we cannot access our inner truth because “there is mud in the well” in the form of fixed, preconceived ideas, fears, old grievances, and memories of wrongs done to us. When we drink from this mud, we are kept stalling. With the help of the I Ching text, the Sage not only wants to make us aware of this fact, it also offers us help to cleanse our inner well. Then we find that our inner truth is a gold mine containing everything we need to know. The more we work with the Sage and give it the necessary space in our mind, the more we realize that it wants to speak to us as a friend, not as a godlike figure that expects obeisance and punishes us when we make mistakes. On the contrary, the Sage wants to free us from ideas that are either grandiose, making us see ourselves as the center of the universe, or that inspire us with fear and awe, and make us see ourselves as small and insignificant. The ancient Greeks had an idea of the Sage when they spoke of “a tutelary spirit that accompanies each person lifelong.” They named it “genii,” root of the word “genius.” Writers have long called it “the muse.” For many artists, athletes, and inventors, it is an “elusive thing” that takes over in us when we give up relying on the “brilliance and ability of the thinking mind,” or the pure brawn of our bodies, to provide the success we seek.

Your desires are karmic realities that exist post awakening and stabilising into non duality. You have no say in whether your body wants to breath, your craving for security, your fear of the unknown when shit gets real. Its easy to be in a high peak awakened state and think nothing matters when your subconscious issues aren’t being triggered. Does not mean they aren’t there. Peoples ignorance of how deep the rabbit hole goes is tremendous. Asides from all that. Your description of desirlelessness is actually aversion. Rejection. Fuelled by fantasies of utter completion and fears of the reality on the ground. The middle path is neither falling into craving nor being enticed by the fantasy of aversion, transcendence. That is the biggest trap pre and post awakening into non duality.

@Pouya Are you afraid that you will have no reason to survive once you lose your ambitions? Is this why you are not awakened yet? Enlightenment is realization of the absolute truth. It has been true your whole life, unbeknownst to you. Why would it change your life?

For those that liked the dream analogy. . . Imagine our character Paul really wants to find truth. He opens himself up and surrenders as much as he can. He goes on a spiritual retreat. This could be a vippassana retreat, a solo retreat or an Ayahuasca retreat. During the retreat he has some glimpses of awakening. (The Real You is actually waking up a bit). Imagine what this would be like for Paul if You start waking up a bit. Paul and the world around him starts to dissolve and become odd. This could be liberating or terrifying to Paul. The Real You may even open your eyes a bit and notice your bed and the room around you. The Real You falls back asleep and Paul becomes Paul again. This glimpse beyond the dream is incredibly powerful. Paul doesn't know what to make of it. He feels really unstable. His whole perception of life is forever changed. Yet, he still tries to recontexualize this awakening into his dream world. So. . . how might Paul describe this to his friends in the dream. He would sound A LOT like what we hear in spirituality. As he looks around his dream world would say things like "I don't exist", "form is formless" (notice how form is formless within his dream). He would say "the person doesn't awaken, it's beyond the person". When people ask him "are you awakened?" it would be weird. He knows he is a dream character within a higher intelligence (The Real You). He would say "we are all One" (every thing within the dream is One dream occurring in the Real You). One of Paul's friends, Stacey, asks if awakening will help her lose weight. Another friend, Jack, asks if awakening will help will get rid of his anxiety and depression. Paul tries to tell them that there is something higher going on here and awakening isn't going to help anyone in the dream get anything. It is beyond the character.

«awakened» again in a dream, and was again in terror to the fact that it's all a shame (especially «me» ofc). ?

My experience has been carrying the water line of En which the Qi power that sees with the green eyes. It means I am the one who can communicate with all races and beings. I feel every nerve. I undergo torture to extend my understanding of pain and feeling. I did every drug IV and overdosed 6 times. I awakened kundalini at 17. I am the master of Kama Sutra and Love Making which is music. My experience has been bearing the rarest eyes which see the special light of interest to the pineal gland the clearest. Which means I struggle to survive

Hey, I have been practicing all kinds of meditations for 10 years. 2 years I have been abiding as awareness all day. I am not awakened in any way yet but had many glimpses. You say your fear is gone, and you are in peace... yet you suffer from than before? can you explain this? what kind of suffering is it, what kind of pain is it? and how can you suffer if you are in peace and all fear is gone?

I myself am not fully awakened. I just understand awakening in theory. Or, you can say I'm awakened at the level of the mind. So, I still have a lot of work to do. You're welcome! ☺

@Truth Addict by knowing what we are not we know we are - Nisargadatta Maharaj. In the absence of sense of me there seems to be no seperate perciever or in complete absorption there seems to be no seperate perciever. But that cannot be the case. Any how i am not awakened self realized. Will do the practice as suggested. Thank you. ?

@zambize look at Sadhguru and what he's done. He can appeal to anyone from a rationalist in a cublic - a yogi in a cave who hasn't spoken in 10 years - an illiterate family and community in a rural part of India - those in the US who are suffering the consequences of hedonism - economic titans - political leaders.... Who can't he touch?! How can he do this?! Simple. He understands how to appeal to people's sameness while having a strong and powerful enough vision to lead them towards and thus elevates them. The nondual thread on here is usually just a shit-show because people want pretend they're know-it-all's as an excuse to not take action on the stuff in the world that needs to be resolved. I was shock at the response I got from people on here by exclaiming how greater consciousness demands taking greater responsibility for one's own actions and development about that's all ego-mind and all these other horse shit excuses. If you want to live in a more awakened world and also more evolved world in terms of actually development (Spiral Dynamics) then we need to take the responsibility to whatever degree we can to apply these insights.

Well, all I can say is just be careful that this is not self-deception. When something really "bad" comes your way will you feel that you've intended it? Self-inquiry is not about just attaining a quiet mind, though. It's literally called inquiry, after all. It's trying to see clearly what is. It's not really a "danger." The truth of Self is unaffected either way, but it's simply that the mind may be more or less turbulent, more or less blissful. As Ramana Maharshi says, "The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too enthralling to be sacrificed to the work born of thoughts. The thought-free state is one’s primal state and full of bliss. Is it not miserable to leave such a state for the thought-ridden and unhappy one?"