Search the Community

Yeah you're right, but these suicides were often done in protest of policies at the time, government stuff etc and these monks just truly believed that their suicide would cause the most change and end the most suffering. So despite being in a blissful state, they threw it all away for others. It's kind of a beautiful tragedy, the person enjoying their life the most sacraficing it for people who arent enjoying it. Lmfao

Why would they commit suicide? Enlightenment doesn't equal suicide.

Thank you, @Nahm! Awesome post by the way! Just to make it clear, you mean that, instead of taking many things to improve (like the 5 I mentioned), I should just pick one? I'm thinking about it and maybe it's a good idea to challenge myself for 21 days to create a unique habit and then start another. Baby-steps. The post was really awesome! Thank you, @Dan Arnautu! My tears are not of excitement and joy, but I love releasing them. It's being a bit difficult to focus on presence while on neuroleptics, but I'm handling it. Thank you for your inspiring post, @rabbitat! I really appreaciate it :). Thank you, @Hellspeed! That's the whole point of my thread, that if I really need a desperation point to start evolving. I think my desperation point started when I was hospitalized and forced medications. Then after the hospitalization, I gained some weight, had back injuries and lost my best friend (suicide). Maybe those situations weren't challenging enough...

Do you mean you have watched some monks commit suicide?

is that picture real? Suicide by fire? I don't think enlightenment can help you remain calm while being burned alive. You're going to feel the burn.

@BjarkeT I think you're missing the point. The reason I made the manifesto is so we should avoid disaster. Scarcity means a scarcity of resources spiritual and physical so if you really embraced pain why don't you right now give everything you own to charity and start from scratch. It'll be a painful journey to do something like that and outside of your comfort zone. There's a difference between going outside of your comfort zone and embracing pain which I do agree with you it helps. What I'm talking about here is true suffering that leads nations on the brink of war and people on the brink of suicide. I think if we avoided this we'd be living in a better world. I don't know what your history is yet I saw when someone asked if working 24/7 is manageable and you said that you doubt it and your body needs sleep. In a world of scarcity let's say if we got rid of all labor laws and a person had to work 24/7 and sleep was considered a luxury we'd all be suffering for it for no reason. This scenario would usually happen in a scarcity world as opposed to an abundance world. If pain is your thing in an abundance world you'd have the chance to buy a ticket to go climb mount Everest that would most likely push you out of your comfort zone and grow you. In a scarcity world just to survive if you needed to be a wage slave it wouldn't exactly be painful it would just be boring and mind numbing yet if you didn't do this job you'd run out of money and your survival needs. Do you understand it's not about pain and pleasure it's about creating a sustainable system that sustains physical and spiritual growth. It's about not being a mindless cog in a heartless machine.

Would you voluntarily subject yourself to military service for 6-12 months if you were never asked to join the army? I wouldn't. The vast majority of people wouldn't either unless they were rendering military service for other benefits like money and career. I could say the same thing about farming, mining, forced labor, etc, etc, ... I propose that as we become freer from forced labor, the societies will become more conducive to enlightenment and personal development. Your friend's experience could have easily become just another distraction if I were him. It would be just another unneccesary pain to me. Pain could easily become a distraction or just another noise in my mind because my ego would react like a crazy monkey. Some people end up shooting others or commiting suicide in army. Each individual needs a unique path to growth. A better path for me would be to do "do nothing" meditation for one hour a day. Even if you were lucky to grow spiritually in army, army would do almost nothing for rising through stages of Spiral Dynamics.

Cynthia Bourgeault gives great instructions on the practice of Centering Prayer In the spiritual circles I've traveled through. No one seems to appreciate Ocke deBoer the way I do. In this interview Iain Mcnay doesn't seem to get Ocke at all. I'll admit that in this interview, Ocke is not very articulate but I think it's because English is not his primary language. His two books HIGHER BEING BODIES and TWO SOULS are treasures to me. Two quotes from HIGHER BEING BODIES "If you could float above the earth and become aware of all the negativity that is going on, you would never laugh again. The world is ruled by negative emotions." "This is the difference between us and the angels. Angels are perfectly made and, therefore, naive and stupid; they can only do what they are made for. Humans have many more possibilities. There is more joy in heaven for one perfected human being than for a thousand angels." From Paul Beekmans review of HIGHER BEING BODIES There is much more in his work to recommend in a brief review. For me I found refreshing the fact that Ocke makes work on oneself appear a potential source of pleasure. As he proclaims; "Absence of joy is slow suicide." Nothing could stir one's appetite to work on the self more than this statement. Understanding his own joy so transparent in his work, is the most persuasive reason to read his book. The book contains many other "homey" statements of this sort that speak well to the reader who is not deep into Gurdjieff's language. For example, Ocke suggests how to put meat on the skeleton of consciousness. He would free his reader from the prison of identification. He contrasts the head brain's radiation with the heart brain's emanation. He tells us the difference between inner and outer memory. the solar soul that can be developed over the lunar body that is destined to dust. This is finally. a book written by one who knows and cares for those who care but do not know yet how to work on themselves.

The only way to cure suicidal thoughts is for one to do it themselves overtime. It won't take an hour, a week, or even months to fully get rid of your suicidal thoughts. It requires constant work and understanding of what suicide is. I haven't fully cured mine but it definitely is improving a lot. There was a time when I got low to the point of where I was about try to kill myself with a butter knife due to family problems and nihilism. The main thing that helps is knowing that there is always a possibility for happiness. And it's nice to have people to hang out with.

I had suicidal ideations a couple of times. I understand it like a mind trick, because suicide is out of question for me (if I have suicidal ideations, it's because something isn't working well). The first time I had suicidal ideations, I took antidepressants. No shame on that because I was probably physiologically screwed up. It's not just a matter of changing semantics. It's deeper than that.

So I went to a psychiatrist. She prescribed me Xanax, fuck Xanax, I'll shoot it in my mouth like candies. Couldn't get the antidepressant prescription because she was avoiding any discussion. I've also hidden my symptoms of bipolar from her because in this case I would get valproic acid or lithium which come with some nasty side effects and toxicity and I see no use in it unless severely manic. Also antidepressants may trigger mania or hypomania (which I had) that's another thing. I worked one day as a carwasher. Jesus Christ I really feel sorry for those stage red/blue women that work there 12 hours a day with very little weekends. The work is okay, it could give me some grounding physical exercises that are not too exhausting and very flexible working schedule, but the unbearable part is that they expect you to wash very fast and clean which is so difficult that it makes you sweaty and angry. After my exam car that I had to wash fast in the end of the day I was so depressed that I was thinking of suicide again, I barely suppressed my cries in front of my collegues. When I went home I was crying all the way and just surrendering to depression talking to myself like "oh yeah bitch, that's devil coming out of me, yikes". I thought "OK, depressed, not a big deal, will see in the morning if I can handle this job further", and then I realized that I don't even have time to sleep enough even though I tried to cook and shower as fast as I can. When I woke up in the morning it was definitely no. Well, at least I worked there for the experience, bwehehe, it was actually fun to use those waterguns, when you press the trigger you feel like you've got all the power in the world, you freaking clearing fairy goddamit. I had fights with my parents about psychiatry and work and shit. They agreed to help me financially with anti-inflammatory diet and acknowledged my health problems. The diet is the one of my main goals at the moment. Still looking for work though. My accountability partnership works. It's been almost a month since I stopped masturbating irresponsibly, it also helped me with some other important commintments like job search. I tried melatonin for sleep and it works. But I have some side effects: headache, nausea, it also seems to affects my kundalini. The carwashing thing shook my schedule and mental state, I will keep experimenting with it. First time I took it I woke up very early in the morning with no alarm and was like "HOLY FUKK?!?! MIRACLE!". Waking up in time definitely lessens my social anxiety and brain fog. Do-nothing is helpful for anxiety for me. Anxiety always comes with constant decision making loop, you are constantly in that state "I gotta fix this, I gotta fix that, what do I do what do I do what do I do", while do-nothing is the opposite of that. You just sit and whatever, fuck it, blah-blah-blah. As you develop do-nothing you can access that any time of the day when you catch yourself in that meaningless decision-making spiral. The length of the day started to increase in northern hemisphere, I will finally have spring fever after all.

For a while now I thought for a fact that suicide was as logical as it gets. Ends all self-suffering and you won't have to deal with problems. But suicide isn't as logical as it seems since it also negates your possibility for happiness. I personally think that you should continue living as long as a possibility for happiness exists. While you're depressed your problems seem big. But maybe in a couple months you'll completely forget about what was causing the depression in the first place. Let's say that a suicidal thought comes up. You think "I want to kill myself". Now replace that with "I want to fix myself" or "I want to fix (or cope) with my problems".

This whole notion that the field of psychology is some innocent honest ethical system is just downright wrong. I’m sorry. Maybe it’s because you’re only reading one half of the story, maybe it’s because you haven’t suffered from crippling issues that failed to be addressed or solved AT ALL by psychiatry and psychology whether it be from ADHD to almost committing suicide to knowing people personally or whatever, but this notion that the psychotherapeutic and psychiatric system has their shit handled is just not true. These systems often don’t help people because their understanding is limited and also because this system is extremely corrupt, particularly the FDA. Hell look at how they treat psychedelics. Did you read why Reich was looked up and had his books burned? Because he started publishing “orgone energy” (or prana) and because his practices were rather “unorthodox”. “Unorthodox” doesn’t mean anything if it actually helps people but if you have certain knowledge which your government system doesn’t want spread (like the case in the USA with psychedelics) then don’t be surprised if they bust down your doors and shut you down. If you think what I’m saying is that NO ONE gets help from psychotherapy in some way shape or form than you’re mistaking what I’m saying but this notion that the FDA is some trustworthy and honest noteworthy federal agency is just fucking false. The entire system of psychiatry alone is incredibly corrupt and it’s honesty shameful and disgusting. Maybe you haven’t had doctors keep pressing you on pills because you were fortunate not to be in that situation to understand. Yeah you can read “documented cases” till the cows come home but that doesn’t justify how ineffective and dysfunctional and how lacking psychotherapy and psychiatry is in things like stage yellow systems thinking which is extremely needed because millions of people get fucked over and sometimes even killed because of shallow low grade solutions, cover up of symptoms rather than attacking root causes, a corrupt and ineffective system, pushing pills that more often than not aren’t needed that can totally change a fuck up one’s biochemistry that become extremely addictive with horrendous side effects that rarely work long term (years/decades).

@Leo Gura Have you read much on existentialism and Albert Camus? If so, what are your thoughts on this and also his philosophy of Absurdism? It almost seems quite related to the liberation of fear & anguish over death one ultimately acquires from a place of Enlightenment and awakening. The search for meaning as a cause of suffering and once becoming conscious of the absurdity of life and confronting that, avoiding ignorance, and eventually unchaining ourselves from a mental prison cell which ultimately unravels us into a sense of Nirvana & acceptance. When I read The Myth of Sisyphus for the first time as a teenager, it had a huge impact on me. Choosing philosophical suicide (or "leap of faith") over physical suicide healed me. I also thought the concept was strikingly similar to samsara. I find both existentialism and Buddhism, though both from different worlds, sort of come to some of the same conclusions. The act of mindfulness, embracing the inevitability of death, and seeing suffering as part of existence. It's not "bad" or negative because it implies to let go but never to give up either because suffering can indeed be overcome and provide the greatest meaning we search for by becoming a happier person and creating a happier life. The only way to seek "meaning" and find God is by embracing the Absurd which I think is the solution of facing the eventual reality of termination. “In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." --Camus

@Mikael89 I’ve been in non duality for almost 4 years. Sentences like the apparent self suffers , and other non dual lingo are nonesense. There is suffering. It is felt. It is uncomfortable. 2 non dual teachers have even committed suicide.

@Blissout You really got a super fantasized version of Enlightenment. If this is a strict parameter, then may as well just commit suicide and leave behind the dead insentient body. That flesh doll won't have ANY emotional or psychological reaction whatsoever. That would be ENLIGHTENMENT. YAY!! THE FLESH DOLL GOT ENLIGHTENED! CONGRATULATIONS!! You are fantasizing about using a software, an app or any device without EVER running into a bug or crash here and there. Realize that body and mind are machines. And they are so interdependent on basically every element of it's surrounding which is really infinite amount of parameters. There cannot be THE PERFECT body and mind. All manifestations are inherently limited and operates in cyclical up-down curves according to the laws of nature. The core of Enlightenment is seeing that this imperfection of body-mind has nothing to do with me. Enlightenment can't make the body-mind perfect. But sure you can try various strategies and self-help to optimize this machine and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm 26 as well and your story resembles mine. On the brink, or feeling like it, of suicide and having immense anxiety and depressive episodes. Lots of emotional "issues" and addictive behavior (eating). If this was school, what would you say that you are supposed to be learning here? What's the lesson? What do you feel is necessary or calling you to do or look at? What is your situation and why is it so difficult? Describe it to yourself as clearly and factually as possible. The environment, your thoughts, your emotions, your relationships, your habits, etc. Sometimes I find asking questions and describing the situation helps me. I would suggest letting go into the negative emotions and thinking as much as possible. No resistance. Dive into it. That has helped me in the past and I've come out the other side thinking way more positively. I've even heard accentuating the feeling or thinking is a way of getting control over it. Community and environment, for me, have also been really important. Volunteering, working at outdoor lodges, intentional communities, school, maybe even going to church if you think that will bring you closer to feeling safer, more secure, understood, warm, etc. Practicing honesty and truth with myself and others is also something that has helped me. Being vulnerable. Practicing loving-kindness can also help "disintegrate" negative emotions. I start with thinking of a picture that makes me emotional and brings the feeling of love. Then I focus on it and try to maintain and grow it as much as possible. It often melts away any negative feelings or reduces them significantly. It's especially helpful when I don't know what else to do. Being creative in any way. And Nature! That's been a savior for sure. Forest bathing. Taking mindful forest walks. Listening to birds and sounds. Looking at the trees and leaves. Exercise. What exercise can you do? Simply ideas and suggestions.

Do you really think all of those people are happy? and you're hardly alone in feeling this way. There's a reason why suicide rate skyrockets in holiday seasons

I dont know but enlightenment by suicide or death is the norm. Dying before you die is a cool trick. Please read carefully: Death = realization that ego-mind is a fiction. So you can still live. If by "that" you mean that ego-mind is fiction, you can only become aware of it. A belief would have to happen inside ego-mind. But you can get your ego-mind to action by asking yourself the question: How can you prove that you are ego-mind, how can you prove that ego-mind even exists? Why do you think you exist? Why do you think you were born?

@kieranperez Do not commit suicide. Whatever you do, don't end it Your mind keeps telling you that there are no possibilities left, but there are many many, you just have to contemplate a little bit. You can come here to Sweden! The borders are wide open! Learn to speak the basic language and it won't be hard to get a job. You will even get money for studying. Work here, start a new life and use the money to pay your debts abroad You can make yourself vanish without a trace, and in 5 years the court will think you died and your debts will go down that hole as well You can go to that monastery You can travel the world without spending a single penny You can do many many many things. You can fulfill your life purpose in many ways man, just don't end it. Don't make suicide an option, make something else replace that option, like "fuck man, it's so damn hard. I just wanna escape this fucking country by boat" You can solve your problems in the country you are in, you can do something about it, you can solve your situation anyhow! Don't make suicide an option. I just wanted to say this, but im in no position to speak out of my experience. But if I were you, I would seriously consider my options

1. How do you quit this game? I do not mean this life, but this whole reincarnation on Earth thing? I do not wanna see this planet again. I know reaching enlightenment is a way, but its too slow. I want to renounce the contract that binds me here NOW. 2. What happens when someone commits suicide? Don't worry I am not planning this, I have 2 daughters, but there is contradicting information on this. 3. Some people talk about psychedelics opening portals for demons, is that true?

If this utopian vision doesn't come with a massive psychological and spiritual growth collectively as well, then suicide rate will go more than 80%...maybe even more

@Hellspeed Thank you hellspeed. For reminding me to focus on inner self. To focus on my relation to God. It was probably my ego backlash haha. From doubting and not surrendering/trusting God completely. You hv no idea what I went through last week. And I was a bit too excited upon knowing &discovering(i'm new to this so it's not possible for me to be as cool & as calm as you , I was a bit too excited as everything started to make sense to me, but honestly it wasn't easy, my lowest point so far in life. Not so much on the outside, but I was so curious about God to the point that I wouldn't mind dying(not suicide but the thought that I wouldn't mind it if God were to take away my life soon,in my religion, dying means returning to God. If you do good deeds you can see God after the day of judgement) But now that I think about it, I can't die yet, I have to fix myself first so that I could see God in my purest form, I can't die now i'm still a bit messed up haha silly me. Then I remembered tht it's possible to see glimpses of what it's like in this lifetime. And if I die, I would at least know the reality of this dimension, since dying means transcending the lower dimension. At least I know what soul state was like. Haha silly. It was just my curiosity to see it myself. I've only known about it conceptually.But nevermind, what I learn is, to be grateful for this life & to do my best while i'm still alive. So that I could meet God in my purest state. What i'm really doubting before is actually about free will vs faith. I doubt it so much that I wanna test it myself and learn it the hard way. And I put myself into unnecessary suffering instead of trusting God 100%. I'm doubting whether I should make a judgement based on rationality or God's guidance. I already act on some crazy decisions but I'm still doubting if I made the right decision. In other words, not trusting God. But not anymore. I'm calm now. (In islam, there is a prayer where you can ask God for guidance and God had answered my prayer but it's.....a bit hard for me to follow hence all the doubting) it wasn't easy really. It's really funny when I look back, now that i've seen the wisdom behind it haha. This is so funny. I am currently attending a one week programme. Discussing about God, and guess what? Everything has been answered now. All my curiosity ,questions and doubts haha. @Hellspeed It can be understood conceptually because I had understand it now^^ Everything had made so much sense now...... Sorry for not being respecful before, that was really not mindful of me as I was only looking from my perspective and was a bit too excited when everything started to make sense to me. That was right before the session start. My mind is still very much limited. And I have learnt so much within this two days. Learning wayy beyond what I thought I had known haha. And there is so much more to learn. It was unexpected. I'm curious about other things now... Sorry about assuming that everyone was interested in cross-learning of different perspective. In reality, it was just me trying to know the essence of God...and make sense of everything as a whole. Now that I think about it, of course it would just be a distraction to those who had find real Truth,i'm sorry. Even the prophet, God revealed the revelations gradually. Not the whole book at once and that's it, I wasn't in my right mind before (curiosity kills). It took 23years for the quran to be revealed and learned/implemented in the prophet's life. After that, he died. When it has become complete. But he only changed dimension, no one will ever really die. And now I see the truth in all of this different perspectives as a whole. It has to make sense to me or else i'd be anxious. But really, the real problem is, my lack of basic knowledge about my own religion. But i'm fine now^^. But human tends to forget. There is so much truth in everything. And I genuinely respect all the masters/gurus/auliyaa'/saints and sages who had known the real Truth. I am nowhere near being enlightened. In my religion it's okay not to be Awakened in this dimension as we will return to God after we died. And those who do good deeds can see God without barriers. And it is beyond what we can imagine..... I learn so much within this two days. Everything make so much sense now.......... Everything new (creations)is subject to change. Hell and heaven are God's Creations too. Including other dimensions(both dimensions in this world and the afterlife). All creations are subject to change. Only God is permanent and Absolute. But God created everything as a Mercy.......and Creations won't know completely of the wisdom behind God's plan....... In this whole thing called maya( we call it something new ) , the people from a higher dimension can see those from a lower dimension.....my guru said he had met the prophet in his dream a few times... and others too....I feel so left behind now. And became curious about something else now haha. Sorry i'm a newbie, can't help but to be excited?

but this dying is very abstract. I have taken rat poison in the past in a failed suicide attempt. Hard to die. But don't we die every night anyway in deep sleep? Come to think of it, I am more deep sleep than a person, but now I have a veil in front of me, a dream which says "I am a body and need to survive as a body"

I didn't really understand this rule. Is it the most difficult decision out of two logical and good choices? Because if you would take this rule litterally you would commit suicide or burn your house down? Can someone explain please?