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@WorknMan You are the whole Mind (God) as well as this small slither of the mind (your finite perspective). This is hard to see right now precisely because you have not Awakened yet. Once you awaken you see through the illusion of the small self. When that happens - through mysticism - the small self collapses and you discover that you are the whole Mind / God. You discover it by Being it. You are being it (meaning you are God) right now you just aren't conscious of it yet. With Awakening or Enlightenment you become conscious that the part (your little perspective) and the whole - the Mind itself or God as the formless - are One.

One cannot hold in the public eye and in mass media, without being awakened, period. The energy of other will destroy one in the process if you let it. Look at so many depressed artists. This is what public eye does, it grownds you, and if one cannot handle it well, we got big belly people, people wearing glasses, high pitch voices etc. And adaptation. I just said about elon mosk as an exp. One can be awakened without realizing and wasting time asking questions. The preocupation of raising consciousness, is a trait of the unawakend. Because one cannot really spread awarness. A better job is to be silent in public.

I've heard it said that the first enlightenment is a personal awakening. The second one is realizing that as long as there are other selves not yet awakened, you are not really yet awakened. Thoughts?

But could it be that a symbol is not a symbol but directly the absolute, that can draw one in to the experience of the symbol since as you know, there are no symbols either, only god/absolute. this is what I’m pointing to. I don’t even think it invalidates what your saying, which isn’t my intention either. I get where your coming from and I’ve seen it from that point of view before as well (and still do) but I’m bringing into question the notion of dualistic and it’s dependency on awakened perspective. Based on what I gathered from your last blog post on omnipresent, you’ve seen what I’m eluding to and perhaps much like I’m going through it’s having a fundamental shift in how one phrased and used notions that seemed inherently absolute and true.

@Iksander my kundalini awakened a year ago on an sds sit, the shaking you are experiencing are called kryas, the kundalini is rising & trying to Cleanse the chakras in your body. When the kundalini hits a bump in the system it makes you shake, it’s clearing & purging the psyche (they say) Let them happen & don’t be scared of them or become attached to them, kundalni energy can & will be intense at times, just let it be & don’t fight it, it’s smarter then you. kundalni can also be a pre-requisite prior to enlightenment in some cases. if you ever want to talk, message me. Shinzen young has a video on kundalini on YouTube that’s very helpful & there is a book on Leo’s booklist called enlightenment through the path of kindalini written by Tara springett that was very helpful as well.

Not as mercifull as before. Being humble has it's limits. And that limit is whe one is attacked energerically by others Ego. Then in a special situation the Ego in cause who attacked has his tongue be cutted by the awakened being. This will create balance. But if i respond with the Ego. Meaning i'm projecting the same as him, only the head and plexus, then a fight can arise and is dangerous.

We should use the natural meaning of english pe example. Changing the word Morning for something else. Because in the Occult knowledge the root of the word is "mourning". Language is like this to create the Ego cosumerism behaviour. Teach a new generation how all thia works and we will have an awakened humanity.

I don't know. I thought that I had awakened to the fact that I had been repressing and demonizing thinking, I thought that I had freed myself of some duality but it was really not an awakening with great insights but equally a debauchery of self deception the likes of which I've never know. Is "trying" to see thoughts for what they really are trying to be a saint?

Why are you hoping I here will see that someday, you there are not telling me anything I here don't know. I see it here. I here can never see what the other is seeing there because the other is imagined illusion here, and illusions cannot see each other. So it matters not what you there say to me here or vice versa...we're just all parrots parroting the same knowledge albeit in different ways. I understand everything you are saying...I know what duality is because I understand what is isn't. Of course the limitless cannot experience itself without limiting itself, that's why limitation is, it's a tiny snapshot of the whole enchilada, a limitation is just one experience of which there are infinite experiences occuring infinitely... through the lens of each individual human camera. Ultimately once awakened there is nothing to explain about existence, it's interesting how we keep going through the maze from source to individuation of source? No awakening ever happened, any apparent awakening is simply seen for what it is/not...as and through the dream of separation.. (illusion)

No, you are just making unwarranted assumptions here ...I wasn't raised studying Advaita Vendanta at all...I just happened to mention it because it relates to my own awakening I had long before I even knew what it meant....AV means the end of knowledge, the end of a sense of I exist as a separate person. Ironically it's a knowledge that takes you to your true-self which is the end of your assumed ownership of any knowledge into the natural non-knowing knowing state that is everyone and no one... VA literature is pointing you back to your original source, aka the unborn born...it's the entrance into Nonduality...the Non-dual Self. I was raised in the material paradigm too. Knowledge of yourself is a relative aspect of the Absolute Not-Knowing Knower...,but this material world made no difference to me, it didn't make it any harder for me personally as I've already explained to Leo. Awakenings can happen to anyone at anytime if that's what life evolves in that person to happen, and it will happen only when it's meant to happen and not one second before...A person seeking enlightenment can seek and seek and seek for the rest of their lives until they are on their deathbead, and still never get it...but if it's meant to happen, it surely will, so it's not something that can be forced, it ususally comes univited.. well it did for me around the age of 7 .. Material and non-material reality are identical...because there is no such reality as a non-material -material world..they exist as one in the exact same moment now ....HERE there is not-knowing(aka non-material) known (aka material reality).....HERE Knower and Known are always one in the same instant, else how is anything known at all....So after enlightment chop wood carry water...carry on with ordinary living, no further inquiry is nescessary, because the realisation that there is no one to become enlightened and that enlightment is your natural state has dawned on you. There is nothing deeper to find because all dimensions and everything and every conceivable world of every permutation and every conscious state that could possibly be imagined are all existing simultaneously right now anyway...there is nothing outside of the consciousness arena because it's infinite and boundless. All Leo does is what a lot of nonduality speakers do ..and that is they just repeat what has been said thousands and thousands of times before by other awakened people over eons, it's all the same rehashed message made to sound new...it's bascially just about listening to your own echo that bellows as and through your sensory listening organs for all eternity...just like all sensations, and emotions and feelings...listening to the sound of words with meaning is just another sensation no one is experiencing...aka YOU...IT'S ALL YOU AKA GOD It's as deep as it is shallow. But the one thing you cannot know on the relative human level is the Absolute because you already are the ABSOLUTE On the human level you can only know what you have personally experienced directly, you cannot know what you don't know. You can become aware of what you didn't know and then know it now...but you can never know the Absolute. For what is not-known will eventually become known, but what is unknowable can never be known.

This is a good example of how Awakening is ultimately part of a grace-controlled reality, and not a materialistic equation of 'having done X retreats or X psychedelic amount, and now I have it', no, deep humble embodied desire to surrender, being utterly self-less and loving and consistent practice are required. Not that M. Ball, was not innocent or genuine in his journey, but possibly a bit naive and childish, and thus unconsciously also still a little ego-centric about it, he also used to have a half-baked materialistic presumption, which would fit this 'chemically induced enlightenment'. So he had a lot of deep experiences through 5-MeO, then had a permanent shift afterwards, talked about his enlightenment (fair enough, it was a genuine awakening right), but then was hit by the mere simplicity and depth that would be reached normally in meditation and going into the deeper consciousness through the gate of sleep. That terrified him, it was a glimpse of deep awakening beyond his self-induced routine, and was or is still left a wreck because of it. . Yet Ramana among others talk about always being awake, God conscious, even in the deepest mode of sleep: http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.com/2008/05/true-nature-of-sleep.html --- I know a teacher here in Holland whom experienced something similar, he had spend a lot of time on this journey, and at some point he was really good at self-induced meditation and creating 'blissful' states and whatnot, he started teaching, yet he was actually addicted to his meditation states, was not deeply awakened, and had a strong subtle spiritual ego, until some almost spiritual death event would overtake him, and he was left in suicidal panic, despair and depression for quite some time, and a lot of shame probably, because he proclaimed himself to be an enlightened teacher already, imagine how painful that must be, trying to be a light to bring people home, to the ultimate, yet yourself losing faith in it. Later it brought him to a deeper surrender and true enlightenment/awakening in his own words now, Ad Oostendorp is his name.

It doesn't necessarily gain any ability. Any siddhis gained are an independent factor. Awakening alone does not clear up all energetic issues, or shadow, or ego, or emotional issues, or bad habits. Nor is it development. So there are many factors herw besides awakening. All of this I have stressed in the past. Many awakened teachers have weird personality flaws and shadow issues and pathologies. Awakening does not mean there cannot be a pathology. As history shows.

I didn't say Elon Musk isn't awakened. I don't know much about him. The impression I got from him is that he doesn't care much about raising his consciousness. As far as I know, drive doesn't necessarily come from awakening. Also, I think awakening is not a binary thing. There are degrees of awakening. I don't know how awakened in general Elon Musk is, but I think he is awakened in terms of work and business and life purpose.

So delusional. How do you know that Elon Mosk isn't awakened? Look at his drive. Don't put the label of Enlightenment on mass medi or monks. Renouncing the material does not make you more awakened, period.

@Paulus Amadeus This is significant, but also keep in mind that this is just one case study, and people can be very different, especially when it comes to health issues. Awakened people can have health complications and even mental issues or energetic issues or shadow. Do not expect them to be impervious to stress, and under enough stress even an awakened person should be expected to crack at some point. Again, a lot of this confusion is caused by having overly simplistic and binary notions of awakening/liberation, where you guys think that it's total and there is zero suffering and you are a Terminator. That's a very cartoonish understanding of awakening. It is not clear what the cause of Martin's issues are. So don't jump to hasty conclusions. Let's monitor his case and see how things turn out for him and what larger lessons his situation holds, if any. It seems like this might be part of his spiritual path. This might be his way of purifying himself even further to reach deeper levels of self-mastery. Or it could be some rare health condition. It's hard to say.

No, they are just devils. Only the awakened can be true Zen devils.

@Gerhard Leo's guided self-inquiry 'Creating an Experience of No-Self' helped me get awakened. My fave of his that I periodically re-watch is The 10 Things You Don't Know You Want.

It seems deactivating the sense of self can also happen temporarily due to life events as well. For example, Pema Chodron built an entire sense of self and identity around being a wife and homemaker. Then one day her husband tells her he is having an affair and is leaving her that day. Pema's entire reality and identity collapsed in that moment and she was completely groundless. Her whole sense of self was temporarily deactivated. She could have created a whole new identity - for example that of a resentful victim. Yet rather, her awakening appeared and she became an awakened nun.

@AlphaAbundance Leo has a video on experience of no-self. It's a guided by him self-inquiry. It helped me get awakened. Check it out.

Similar problems with the knee. I had not used surgery, although i could not walk without pain and many years of periods of not walking etc. Hard times. How i heal it? Kundalini Shakti Awakening I lost all hope but i was convinced inside that there is something more. So i started in reallity to find ways to heal the body when i was in crisis. And by accident i can say or i don't know, i have awakened. Without knowing what this is. So i listened to breath by instinct and insights came to me in how to to everything. Now i specialize in Tantra yoga and healing with energy, remote or laying hands.

Lack of sleep is for the unawakened. The awakened sleep very little or none.

@Leo Gura But i thought to some degree the animals for example , still had a consciousness that basically say "i", but after having the non dual experience today, i would venture to say that we are the only self aware species on the planet, meaning the "i" is a concept that we created, that gave us the possibility to become awakened as humans, as we have past and future. But this is something that i didn't get, like i said to my auntie, we went to the zoo and she basically said this lion is alone and is feeling sad and the zoo should have captured another lion as it must be feeling lonely. But i said to her the lion doesn't think, it has no sentence for I am hungry, i am feeling lonely. But she couldn't understand it what i was trying to get at... basically it doesn't have a sense of I. SO it doesn't think about being lonely, thats simply a projection you've added (but i never told her this) This being so, what didn't make sense to me was how they're communication features and survival insticts differ to ours, when they don't have a sense of "i", it means that if they're scared, they're scared for the time period they're feeling safe, as soon as they feel they're out of danger, it goes away instantly! and leaves no mark in the past or present, as these are human ideology again added. still i couldn't understand what made them want to survive as the distinct consciousness they are... but your telling me its because they live in a different consciousness state.. thats different to our human consciousness, so our human consciousness is perfect to allow us to be human, their particular consciousness state allows them to be their consciousness that gives them to be exactly perfect as their "BEING" SELF without a sense of self , But this is only an analogy your using, so your saying you accessed a totally different consciousness state, so this means you accessed a totally different state that was "non-human" in its make up, which i don't see as impossible because human itself is only a concept, when you enter the realms of absolute infinity, this is what i would of expected, you should be able to alter your consciousness at will, to the power of infinity, but you know that its not different as there is only one, still you play in infinity. Edit: i'm not even sure i like the term "non-human"

This. At no point does someone go from being “not enlightened” to “enlightened.” It’s a gradual change people who haven’t awakened whatsoever generally don’t have any understanding of the infinite tiny shifts on the path

@solr I think most people are judgmental of others. You said higher tiers shouldn't be judgmental of lower ones, but your examples are of Green people judging (probably) lower tiers. Almost everyone I know would look at a Stage Brown individual as nearly primitive in their ideals... in a negative way. Being judgmental is just something people are. My personal belief is that we should try to examine these judgments and realize that they are generalisms and not entirely accurate, and also try to avoid judging. But we still judge others, even when we don't want to. Keep in mind that Spiral Dynamics are not explicitly measuring how enlightened or awakened one is, although the higher tiers tend to give a more holistic view that we generally lump in with enlightenment. They are simply measuring what tier a person's social development is at. No tier is "better" than the others. A higher tier can still experience judgmental attitudes. A lower tier individual might be more awakened than a higher one as well. I also believe we can be of varying stages when looking at specific beliefs (I know a lot of guys that are very Stage Brown in terms of sexual maturity). A lot of people get annoyed at elitists. But keep in mind what exactly you are getting frustrated at. You're annoyed at their elitism, but aren't you exhibiting the same elitism towards them by thinking you're better than them because you don't do X, Y, Z? You feel they force their opinions on others (you), but what about that bothers you? Do you retaliate by forcing your own opinion back on them? You're under no obligation to accept their opinions as fact, or even really to deal with them. You can be vegan and never interact with another vegan. You can be a social activist and find networks of people that share both your ideals and your methods. Or you can avoid social activism entirely. The short story is that you should search within for the thing that bothers you about them. Usually it tends to be a flaw you see in yourself. I always heard the most frustrating phrase growing up: "when you point your finger at others, you have three fingers pointing back at you." It annoyed me because No, I was talking about them, not me! But a lot of what annoys us about others can be found within, sometimes hiding under a different name. It's a good idea to identify those things, fix them within ourselves first, and then continue on. Eventually, you'll find they trigger you less and less as you see yourself in them less and less. It also might be a good idea to disassociate your ego from veganism and environmental consciousness. You might be annoyed that these people are representing "you" and "your ideals" in a way you disagree with. But they aren't representing you. They're representing their own ideals, and you share some similar beliefs. That isn't what makes you you, however. I hope this was helpful <3

I've been getting a feeling that nothing on this forum even matters. Every day, there are dozens of posts about senseless, meaningless topics. A guy is crying because he got jerked off by a trans woman. Leo says we need to do 40 years of 5-meo in order to experience enlightenment (how old is Leo again?). People are arguing about whether you need to do hardcore practices in order to be enlightened or not. It doesn't matter. None of this is enlightenment. If you think enlightenment is in a pill or in practices, you're still in a dream. They might be able to help you get close to seeing what it can be, but those are not enlightenment. I see a lot of people who have gone through a single awakened moment and believe they are fully enlightened, yet their every word denies this possibility. I'm certainly not enlightened either, but at least I'm able to say it. And to point out when I'm being egoic, like in this and my previous statement. It's getting a little tiring. Stuff I'm working on for me: Being a bit more selfish... I've isolated myself too much in order to be available at any point in time. I need to be able to say no when I want, or to be busy in my own life. I need a life outside of just work and family as well. It's actually very difficult to do this. My ego identifies with selflessness, and it's almost painful at times to deny that. Health stuff. It's ongoing. It sucks. It's not going to get better, and I need to be okay with that. No one ever said it would be easy. Motivation. In general... motivation is very low on a lot of things. Basically everything. Feeling like a lot of things don't matter, but I still need to do them. Work is a big one. Went to a job site a while back and felt borderline incompetent. Was not a good feeling. I still did my job though. My place is in front of a computer, not in the field, but I can be content wherever I'm needed. Boss is being hypocritical in a lot of ways. He says it's hard to get work done when people aren't in the office. I requested a day at home because my wife has a doctor's appointment and I need to watch the kids. He was upset because my coworker has been working from home nearly 40% of the time consistently for the past several months and he can't say no. Boss has been in the office an average of an hour or two a day for the past three months. But I'm the one who's a problem when I was in the field recently (for work) and ask for a single day at home. Not sure if this is egoic of me to complain... or if that's even a negative thing. Not sure how to meld the Law of Attraction to make this a positive. Emotions are very neutral right now. I'm not sad or depressed, but I'm not happy either. I just am. I would almost rather be blissfully ignorant.