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So I'm a bit shy to post this, but I was just working through Leo's most recent video and I he mentioned this very topic so i thought that maybe the time was right to talk about it. I had an awakening a few weeks ago. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep was guided through it by someone on the forum here. When I was a kid I knew that I was insane. Later I talked to my friend who had read a book about a kid with OCD and I knew then that that was what was wrong with me. The impulses were sometimes to go do things or say things that I had no logical reason for doing. The impulses latched on to my strong religious beliefs and told me to accept the devil into my soul and I was incredibly tormented by those most of all. The told me to confess things to people. I made myself very ill confessing to my mother something about getting naked with other kids a child. I realize now that I could have given into it, and awakened as a kid and saved myself a lot of pain. But I probably would have landed in the mental institution. I didn't have the support then that I needed of the background of understand that Leo's videos have provided as well as many others. The impulses I had, they weren't intrusive thoughts but rather they were intuition on how I could awaken and see the world as it was. When I started this work I really loved the idea of having a clear mind or peace of mind. I didn't realize that my resistance to turmoil and painful thoughts was my ego. I had a spiritual opening with the death of my Grandmother. I realized that she was unconditional love. Holding her hand when she died and then touching her dead hand in the funeral home later changed something in me, although at the time I felt nothing. I thought I would be stricken by how different she felt dead than alive. I wasn't. Now I find myself in a place of not being able to meditate or still my mind. This isn't what I thought it was. I got here the exact ass backwards way that I expected to. I can't do the "work" anymore. It's all play to me. Nature speaks to me in ways that it always has but now I'm free to hear it. Still, I feel a lot of guilt and "shoulds" over abandoning the practices. The nature of my job is a highly focused meditative/creative one. I don't know if I should just go straight into that, or really focus on spiritual "work". There's no difference anymore! It's all a state of mind/no mind I guess.

Like in the Hero's Journey or The 10 Ox-Herding Pictures, the Hero or the awakened one always returns to where he began. This is why I considered enlightenment as a part of the game. I can see now how it isn't a part of the game but also isn't separate from it.

Here is my definition: "regular" person: lives in distinctions and concepts. World is taken quite literally as a puzzle of words and ideas of reality. Interconnections of different distinctions coupled with ones own biases and survival needs create ideologies of the world, that are seen as real as reality itself. Rape and murder are just plain WRONG and that the end of it, it is obvious isnt it. Highly dualistic, black and white thinking is trademark of the "regular" person. Awakened person: transcends and includes distinctions and concepts. Concepts and ideas are now seen as they are: a description, a point of view, but not as reality itself. Ideas are a legitimate part of oneness, but they do not overshadow being itself like the previously did. Duality is non-duality and vice versa, all issues and problems collapse and all the capital versions of dualisms (see leos recent duality series) step into foreground of experience. Ideas are included and integrated and seen as they are. Insane/psychosis person: gets lost in distinctions and concepts. Insane person draws connections and meaning out of his own ideas that others dont experience. These connections and meanings take a hold of a persons life and mentality in a disruptive way. A person is no longer able to tell wich of his fantasies and ideas are real and wich are not: they all blend together into his experience. Meaning and the further meanings of different meanings are not seen as a mental construct, meanings create real tangible physical features of reality. The experience of the phone ringing MEANS that secret agents are watching. There need not be any evidence, first hand experience of agents themselves to prove they are real, meanings of different things that are experienced first hand create a reality for them. For the regular person the fact that the phone rang means that someone is calling and the phone rings, both are equally real and tangible, the caller is not an idea but a real physical part of reality. There is no further meaning drawn from either of the "facts", but the idea of the caller enforces the bundle of ideas and unconscious delusions that create the ego illusion: me and not-me. The delusion is there, but it goes by without noticing, it does nor grip the "experiencers" experience in a disruptive way. For the awakened person the fact that the phone rang means that someone is calling AND that the ringing is simply experienced, as it did and there is no other reality to it. The ringing is real and the person calling is an idea. This is a very brief overall explanation that includes non-dual understanding. Im not going to go into the Leo Guraisms of this topic (such as the fact we all more or less believe a voice in our "heads" that tells us stuff), but I encourage you to contemplate the dualism of insane vs not insane. Psychosis and madness are very complex phenomenon though, and there is much more to them that I could blabber on here. Highly recommended read, one of the most comprehensive and stage yellow books I've read:

@NorthRise First of all, just because Leo has dedicated "his entire life to self-actualization" doesn't mean he's on the right path. He can be very well in a dead-end and delusional. Just the fact that he frequently demonizes the ego is a sign that he's not as advanced in the path as he thinks he is. He speaks as if he's an authority, but true master are orders of magnitude more humble than he is. For example, when he talks about the illusion of the self, he's very unnecessarily intrusive by pointing his finger to the viewer and saying, "YOU, exactly YOU, do not exist." Furthermore, he also gives very dangerous advice such as "spend two days not talking to anyone, but doing 4 hours of meditation." The way he glorifies psychedelics is also irresponsible. I am not against psychedelics, but it works only for a limited number of people. The fact that he isn't able to pull off a solo retreat without psychedelics is a big red-flag to me. Well, to be fair, he didn't use psychedelics in his first one. But it was disastrous. Then, in the other two, he obviously used them and thought he was awakened af. He also doesn't value personal relationships enough, which is something that Abraham Maslow himself said was one of the needs in the pyramid. Regarding his social skills, you can tell very easily by watching him talk that he's a very tensed-up guy. Tension blocks the flow of a conversation. No wonder why he very rarely does interviews. And I highly doubt he's going to make that USA tour happen. The "Enlightenment Happening in Real Time" video shows how out of touch with reality he is. If he had good social skills, he wouldn't even consider doing that. It's really cringey. I am very aware about the topics Joe Rogan talks about. I'm just saying that Leo rambling about non-duality won't make the podcast interesting.

Never heard of anybody enjoying fear. There are awakened people out there who are taking psychiatric medications because of fear and its consequences on mood, sleep etc. I truly believe that we are shaped by our genetics to a very high degree

zerolSinfinity, I've already been awakened. Thank you. I fear not who I am. I've known myself all my life. Abrakamowse has been telling me his own interpretation of the Truth, according to what he wants me to believe, because he thinks that he knows what he's talking about. I made that mistake in the past. I've since moved on.... Andrea

@Pouya even if you are awakened you really cant force it on people. Many people are too close minded and grounded in their own dogma to be open to it and you really can't change that. You just have to focus on your own work and be raise your consciousness so high that it doesn't matter if others around you are not as conscious. My wife is that way. One day hopefully she will just come to me on her own and want to explore spirituality.

@Pouya Thanks, I'm not awakened but more than them ! @molosku Thanks! @Pouya @molosku In regards to them not contacting me, do you think also not bring that up? If not, I don't see how our relationship can improve.

@Fountainbleu One of the things I've learned is that never try to "spread the Truth" or "wake uncounscious people up" before you yourself are actually awakened. Otherwise the results are: Misunderstanding, judgement, name calling and being mocked, and even not understanding at all.

@Nahm i don't think you are grasping what i am saying here. Yes we can replace the word Death with God. God is more appropriate...that's why i said i used it loosely. What i am saying is that after enlightenment...after the mystical experience of awakening...you ultimately fall back at some point to the Ego. Are you disputing that? Furthermore have you had a mystical experience? Do you consider yourself awakened? Now once back in the Ego the duality of form and formlessness is then created. So you see i am not stating that i believe in duality. I am saying that a duality is created. This is what Leo is referring to in his self inquiry Christmas edition episode.. Are we on the same page now? He then states that you can bring the two together into One. This is the fusing of the form and the formlessness and then you walk around like the Zen master at the end of the Ox journey that just roams around in town laughing.. But what is that? is that the Ego with just super fucking high levels of consciousness (thats what i believe, for the record) where you are not in some mystical state (a formless state) but you are just super aware of Truth. You are not Being Truth but you are fully conscious of Truth. You may become Being during meditation again at some point but formless is not permanent for you. Being super conscious is, though. That was all i was asking. its really simple if you think about it.

@Inliytened1 If you still see in the duality of ‘alive & death’, then no, you are not awakened. And, no concept exists as an actuality. Only as a concept. Notice how easy it is to slip into thinking / twoness. It is because you are Truth, that no thought could ever be True. Finite appears within infinite. Finite can not encapsulate infinity. “IT” can not be thought. It is aware of thought (appearance). Is the finger the hand? Is the hand the finger? Can the finger point to itself? It is because you are Truth, that all you experience is Truth. Notice what the hands are doing. Notice you are not giving micro-commands, not controlling them at all. Notice you are controlling them. They are typing what you are thinking. Two hands, two hemispheres. Twoness. One is aware of this twoness. One is Magic.

@Nahm thats what i thought too but if that's the case then when enlightenment happens you are awakened. Period. This concept of permanent awakening doesnt exist..that's death. I agreed with you initially but thats not what Leo is saying unless he is saying what i mentioned earlier..to walk around post enlightenment conscious of what you are and what reality is as concept and not being Being it itself.

I really want to share this video as it’s something that missing l in A LOT of people’s understanding of the ramifications of pursuing enlightenment. This was pretty much the realization I had from my acid trip and I honestly couldn’t have worded it better than Ken does here. There is paradox when you awaken. The question is... are you actually going to do the best you can at living that paradox? Or are you just going to play on one side of the street? Actually watch the damn video too. What kinda person do you really have to be to do that? Do you fundamentally understand what you’re actually realizing/pursuing? You think a fully awakened human being just neglects the very world that they themselves are?

By "enlightenment" I mean complete non-identification with the ego and eternal state of Samadhi. Do you want to have sex in this state? A question for people with both awakened kundalini, and yet without. I am asking that people who have not experienced this should not write anything.

War is not peace. If so it would not have his own word. Seeing war as a normal thing a common delusion A true awakened human doesn't believe in a so call'd normal cycle of shit. They become the new circle True awakening means having the power to break the wheel. Not accept the wheel' that is only 50% on the road for get out of sleep

Breath work workshop with gongs 50 minutes of continues breath work followed by 20 minutes of normal breathing with gongs. We bagan. Lied down. Underneath a throw with my sock across my eyes. I took my hoodie off because I knew I would get sweaty. I started to breath. Ego kicked in straight away. "Can't be bothered doing this for an hour." Blah blah blah. I felt the resistance to the activity. I remained with the breath. After however long... I had gone. I was no longer me. I started to cry, started to tense my fists in complete resistance to something, I was holding on to something. I could feel this energy in the upper chest, pushing down on me. My lungs filled with air as I conjured up this huge fucking emotion... I heard distant blurred voices. 'This is what you wanted isn't it?' my back arched as I sat up holding onto but releasing this emotion at the same time. I felt one of the ladies place her hands on my legs to ground me. I felt someone else place her hands on my head. She whispered. 'surrender.' 'I can't!.' I cried. This surrender it was asking for was to come from the core, my very being, it was a universal surrender I had yet to experience. I raised my arms, my body shaking like a pneumatic drill, I placed my hands on her arms for some sort of support I needed. Tears where pouring down my face. I felt this beautiful sensation specifically around the areas of the body that are injured. My hip and lower back where being loved it felt. I started laughing, hysterically. Don't know why. Then I felt something I have never felt before. This light, this enengy of what felt like complete love (I don't even think love is the right word it feels to shallow) where emanating through my being and out of my fingers, toes head and chest. I hysterically laughed... 'its love! It's love!' accurate representation... I don't think I remember what happened after that. I remember the gongs slowing down, an indication for us to slow the breath. But I felt like I wasn't there. I wasn't there anymore. I brought the nervous system back down. I started to feel into the body more. I was pissed wet through with sweat, my whole body was tingling head to toe, my hands where locked in a crab like way, it felt like I was floating. I could feel the tension in the body, holding onto something, I knew if I let go via the body the mind would follow so that's what I did. I flopped everything, my head arm's face. Then... The gongs began, in such a way I've never heard. Hypnotising, tranquilizing. This was something else. I lost consciousness. All of a sudden a piercing feeling of fear startled and woke me... BOOM! It smashed my chest like a pane of glass. I opened my eyes under my sock and removed it slightly to look at the ceiling. ... 'who am I? Where am I?' The devil woke me up. I just felt the devil, he woke me, he said hi, he showed his face. This devil was me. My head was fucked. I observed the breath to pass through the panic, the body felt ready to run. Sprint. Get out of here NOW, adrenaline coursing. I observed and placed the sock back over my eye's. I lost consciousness again through the power of the gongs, another noise woke me, but I didn't wake. I was the noise. I was the traveling noise. I could feel the every fucking cell in the body dancing. Moving, vibrating. I kept drifting between the self and the Self. But every time I came back to the self with a lower case S I was so confused. I literally had no fucking idea what was going on. Eventually it was time to return back to the body. I gently eventually sat up and just stared at the stain glass window, I wasn't trying to figure out anything but there was nothing there at the same time. I was sat frowning with s confused feeling but not thinking if that makes sense. I do feel like I have started something I need to finish. Don't know why but I feel there is unfinished business to take care of. I have awakened something. Powerful shit.

I don’t think you nor even most people that just awaken understand how shallow awakening can be for most in an awakened state. A drastic change from before? Sure. Dis identification on a conscious level? Sure. A newfound baseline, yep. but Do you have a long, long, long way to go? Even when you stabalize in non duality? Definitely Do you have the same issues as normal people in a slightly different way? Yep. Can you still suffer? Immensely. It might not appear like that to an awakened person but it’s just circumstance. If your mooji in a Portuguese resort. You won’t be bothered by anything. Nor will you think you can be, but haha not true. The eradication of all subconscious ideation that remains upon permanent awakening is a long and arduous journey. One that most people don’t finish, because they trade nuance away and simply cling to their worlds. Halt its evolution.

@Yonkon My opinion of him has not changed much. I don't think he is ultimately awakened, but he doesn't need to be in order to teach what he teaches, and he's more than enough awake for you. He's an excellent meditation teacher.

This is my theory, its important sometimes for a student to understand something as "absolutely so" for a while, since the benefits that come with this, is that a much higher ingraining effect on the psyche can take place. Most if not all psychies to begin with are believing a "absolutely so" that is generally not fully benefiting them, and having them acclimate, change and then live from a new vantage point for a period of time can be very healing in letting them let go of their previous harming tendencies, and mind sets that are more fixed and limiting. Neti Neti is one of these and is also not false nor true, which is yet another developing and enveloping perspective that can come in "development". Which if we want to continue with the theme that I've started, "development", a word that for most minds triggers an idea of time and a taking placeness over a experiential length of some sort, is a Nowness thing that only appears to take place in a experience of time (another awaking perspective). However this "Nowness" and "Time Experience" and "Developments that take place" are both true and not reducing of the other, since again all thats being shared about here is of Source/God and Source/God is all there is, it is those things and doesn't reduce those things to "only god exists" and "those other understandings/perspectives/life experiences" aren't real. (another awakened understanding and something a lot of people on this forum are stuck in).

Well, I said realize presence but to initially recognize presence can lead to making It real. Although presence is awakened as a direct experience when it is realized in us. Do you judge your judging? It's not about the types or amount of activity and content that happens in the mind, it's the attachment to it, the story can distract from being present. Even the narrative of not attaching to the story can be a distraction if we allow it. The mind doesn't want the simplicity of presence, it wants the complicated story and will generate it in everything.

@Adam M They're both tools of special interests, well paid and promoted for it. Atheism failed, so Jordan Peterson is their next guy. Cable TV, it's credibility is near dead, online video the future for the last decade plus. Whether they're stage yellow green or whatever, they are not as smart as people from 300 years a go or more. Noam Chomsky, I would have thought of as yellow. These guys, even if they're green, there's got to be saner people out there somewhere. I would have thought of permaculturalists, surfer dudes, Outdoor pursuits type of people, Yoga instructors as more green. Szizek. "The issue is settled" a mixed economy both socialism and capitalism is best. The guy is an Atheist, evil does not exist in Atheism. Rape, murder, theft lying etc. Are not evil, they're just not good. Evil requires the supernatural, basic mechanics pleasure(good) and pain(not good). If I burn my hand with acid that's not good. If a person melts another's face with acid, with intent to destroy or defy the good, ultimately God, that's evil. Peterson. Truth is Darwinian.(Sam Harris debate). If Genghis Khan were doing a talk, even if an awakened stage Red/Blue he'd have more credibility. What is best in life great khan? Aristotle lists a load of things that are crucial to happiness, survival basically. Health, Wealth, Family, Friends etc the basic stuff. Could start today or next week. 5 minute YouTube videos or something as a start. I've thought about doing more to organise my thoughts. Not to gain attention par se. Example Paul Joseph Watson. Silly voice check. Silly face. Colourful. Thumbnail check. Tempo. Rhetoric. Skip camera frames. More than the multiples TV off "Back to the Future". Political.... The better channels have fewer subscribers more erudite, I like fewer but more hardcore philosophical videos if I can find them 30-45mins concentrated is my preference. I don't like political rhetorical ones at all, Left or Right, although more so left, though that's more mainstream left. Same old shit. Addictive to the Ego to some extent, collective(Left) or individualistic(Right). But 500,000 to 1,000,000 views for less than a 10 minute video! Even a thousand is a lot of eyeballs.

I barely had my eyes open and laying in bed when I typed out the following this morning: Patriarchality = domination and imbalance of thinking over feeling Patriarchality = domination through violence and fear Patriarchality = domination over consciousness with religion through fear and guilt Patriarchality = domination by alpha male cowardice alienated from Awakened Conscience and emotional intelligence 2000 year Aquarian Age brings ??? I may have been pushing a button at those who emphasize the idea and value of the alpha male. I don't mean to completely demonize the idea of Patriarchy. It's actually been a good thing in a lot of ways but it's still greatly biased against women treating them as second class citizens. Romantic love and the idea of finding completeness through relationship seems to be a big trap. Especially in conjunction with the institution of marriage. Patriarchy in itself is neither good or bad, I guess. Same with marriage. The couples who seem to be making it work appear to value honesty and authenticity and respect for the other. I'm thankful that I never got married. It wouldn't have given me what I thought it offered, as I saw it when in my twenties. For some people it does offer a satisfying life. But it never would have for me. This I can plainly see in hindsight. Romantic love isn't really love. Infatuation and lust are a lot of fun but just a different form of roller coaster. Roller coasters can be a lot of fun though. Im really drawn to pondering large scale issues. Always have been. I could care less about any kind of organized sport. Comments welcome.

@Leo Gura That's an important reminder, it's one of the reason I chose this avatar but it's still easy to forget. The trap I fall into a lot is comparing my path with other people's path. There are some areas that I find people are incredibly advanced in and I get taken away with them. Then later I realize that they are missing some basic thing that I knew as a 5 year old or really early on. Or I do the reverse of it and dismiss someone who could really help me grow and I them. It's incredible to me how lopsided people can be and still be awakened to some degree. I guess that can be called the grace of God. Perfection in imperfection.

I'm not really familiar with what he does. But it's very easy to do years of Vipassana but not be awakened or really understand the depth of consciousness work. In fact I would say that most Westerners who practice Vipassana have no idea what awakening or nonduality really are. Because they are following a very narrow practice on blind faith. I have met people who have done Vipassana for 5-15 years but have no idea what the world enlightenment means. Not to mention many other aspects of spiritual work. This work goes so deep and has so many layers to it that you should NEVER assume that a person who does any kind of practice is awake or understands spirituality. It's all too easy to turn spiritual practices into narrow robotic habits and dogmas. Sam Harris supposedly also does meditation and has even had some degree of realization of no-self. But his worldview is still thoroughly materialistic and dualistic, and he is still missing 98% of spirituality. This is extremely common in the West especially. Westerners tend to dabble in spirituality while thinking to themselves that they've figured it all out. This is to be expected. As a general rule of thumb: When someone talks about spirituality, does spirituality, or teaches spirituality -- NEVER, EVER assume that they are at the highest stages of it. Always be skeptical. Especially with Westerners. True masters are very rare. Fully comprehensive teachings are very rare. Most people who do spirituality are doing it very poorly, pathologically, and half-assing it. This is to be expected given that almost no one understands the full scope of the mind's self-deceptiveness. Even awakening will NOT make you immune to self-deception. So watch out!

I don't consider myself spiritually gifted. I don't have any of these except Intrest in metaphysics and Truth which I developed after my awakening 2 years ago. Me 2,5 years ago: unable to concentrate, constant mind wandering, unable to feel any love, naturally very neurotic and aversive, think spirituality is bullshit, almost certain that materialistic paradigm is true. And yet I awakened to some degree (no-self insight, stream-entry, Location 1, or whatever we may call it) literally after my first 20 minutes mantra meditation ever, which I did out of boredom when scrolling youtube and saw some TM video. Since then I moved way beyond that and also trained high concentration (this was actually harder for me than awakening). Me now: sometimes able to get to effortless laser-like concentration (depending on how much I practice), no sense of agency at all, sometimes I feel very strong ecstasy and love, still get anxious and afraid but I'm able to cope with it better, not sure if the materialistic paradigm is true. I don't think you have to be gifted but rather you have to be lucky to find a method matched with you.