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So delusional. How do you know that Elon Mosk isn't awakened? Look at his drive. Don't put the label of Enlightenment on mass medi or monks. Renouncing the material does not make you more awakened, period.

@Paulus Amadeus This is significant, but also keep in mind that this is just one case study, and people can be very different, especially when it comes to health issues. Awakened people can have health complications and even mental issues or energetic issues or shadow. Do not expect them to be impervious to stress, and under enough stress even an awakened person should be expected to crack at some point. Again, a lot of this confusion is caused by having overly simplistic and binary notions of awakening/liberation, where you guys think that it's total and there is zero suffering and you are a Terminator. That's a very cartoonish understanding of awakening. It is not clear what the cause of Martin's issues are. So don't jump to hasty conclusions. Let's monitor his case and see how things turn out for him and what larger lessons his situation holds, if any. It seems like this might be part of his spiritual path. This might be his way of purifying himself even further to reach deeper levels of self-mastery. Or it could be some rare health condition. It's hard to say.

No, they are just devils. Only the awakened can be true Zen devils.

@Gerhard Leo's guided self-inquiry 'Creating an Experience of No-Self' helped me get awakened. My fave of his that I periodically re-watch is The 10 Things You Don't Know You Want.

It seems deactivating the sense of self can also happen temporarily due to life events as well. For example, Pema Chodron built an entire sense of self and identity around being a wife and homemaker. Then one day her husband tells her he is having an affair and is leaving her that day. Pema's entire reality and identity collapsed in that moment and she was completely groundless. Her whole sense of self was temporarily deactivated. She could have created a whole new identity - for example that of a resentful victim. Yet rather, her awakening appeared and she became an awakened nun.

@AlphaAbundance Leo has a video on experience of no-self. It's a guided by him self-inquiry. It helped me get awakened. Check it out.

Similar problems with the knee. I had not used surgery, although i could not walk without pain and many years of periods of not walking etc. Hard times. How i heal it? Kundalini Shakti Awakening I lost all hope but i was convinced inside that there is something more. So i started in reallity to find ways to heal the body when i was in crisis. And by accident i can say or i don't know, i have awakened. Without knowing what this is. So i listened to breath by instinct and insights came to me in how to to everything. Now i specialize in Tantra yoga and healing with energy, remote or laying hands.

Lack of sleep is for the unawakened. The awakened sleep very little or none.

@Leo Gura But i thought to some degree the animals for example , still had a consciousness that basically say "i", but after having the non dual experience today, i would venture to say that we are the only self aware species on the planet, meaning the "i" is a concept that we created, that gave us the possibility to become awakened as humans, as we have past and future. But this is something that i didn't get, like i said to my auntie, we went to the zoo and she basically said this lion is alone and is feeling sad and the zoo should have captured another lion as it must be feeling lonely. But i said to her the lion doesn't think, it has no sentence for I am hungry, i am feeling lonely. But she couldn't understand it what i was trying to get at... basically it doesn't have a sense of I. SO it doesn't think about being lonely, thats simply a projection you've added (but i never told her this) This being so, what didn't make sense to me was how they're communication features and survival insticts differ to ours, when they don't have a sense of "i", it means that if they're scared, they're scared for the time period they're feeling safe, as soon as they feel they're out of danger, it goes away instantly! and leaves no mark in the past or present, as these are human ideology again added. still i couldn't understand what made them want to survive as the distinct consciousness they are... but your telling me its because they live in a different consciousness state.. thats different to our human consciousness, so our human consciousness is perfect to allow us to be human, their particular consciousness state allows them to be their consciousness that gives them to be exactly perfect as their "BEING" SELF without a sense of self , But this is only an analogy your using, so your saying you accessed a totally different consciousness state, so this means you accessed a totally different state that was "non-human" in its make up, which i don't see as impossible because human itself is only a concept, when you enter the realms of absolute infinity, this is what i would of expected, you should be able to alter your consciousness at will, to the power of infinity, but you know that its not different as there is only one, still you play in infinity. Edit: i'm not even sure i like the term "non-human"

This. At no point does someone go from being “not enlightened” to “enlightened.” It’s a gradual change people who haven’t awakened whatsoever generally don’t have any understanding of the infinite tiny shifts on the path

@solr I think most people are judgmental of others. You said higher tiers shouldn't be judgmental of lower ones, but your examples are of Green people judging (probably) lower tiers. Almost everyone I know would look at a Stage Brown individual as nearly primitive in their ideals... in a negative way. Being judgmental is just something people are. My personal belief is that we should try to examine these judgments and realize that they are generalisms and not entirely accurate, and also try to avoid judging. But we still judge others, even when we don't want to. Keep in mind that Spiral Dynamics are not explicitly measuring how enlightened or awakened one is, although the higher tiers tend to give a more holistic view that we generally lump in with enlightenment. They are simply measuring what tier a person's social development is at. No tier is "better" than the others. A higher tier can still experience judgmental attitudes. A lower tier individual might be more awakened than a higher one as well. I also believe we can be of varying stages when looking at specific beliefs (I know a lot of guys that are very Stage Brown in terms of sexual maturity). A lot of people get annoyed at elitists. But keep in mind what exactly you are getting frustrated at. You're annoyed at their elitism, but aren't you exhibiting the same elitism towards them by thinking you're better than them because you don't do X, Y, Z? You feel they force their opinions on others (you), but what about that bothers you? Do you retaliate by forcing your own opinion back on them? You're under no obligation to accept their opinions as fact, or even really to deal with them. You can be vegan and never interact with another vegan. You can be a social activist and find networks of people that share both your ideals and your methods. Or you can avoid social activism entirely. The short story is that you should search within for the thing that bothers you about them. Usually it tends to be a flaw you see in yourself. I always heard the most frustrating phrase growing up: "when you point your finger at others, you have three fingers pointing back at you." It annoyed me because No, I was talking about them, not me! But a lot of what annoys us about others can be found within, sometimes hiding under a different name. It's a good idea to identify those things, fix them within ourselves first, and then continue on. Eventually, you'll find they trigger you less and less as you see yourself in them less and less. It also might be a good idea to disassociate your ego from veganism and environmental consciousness. You might be annoyed that these people are representing "you" and "your ideals" in a way you disagree with. But they aren't representing you. They're representing their own ideals, and you share some similar beliefs. That isn't what makes you you, however. I hope this was helpful <3

I've been getting a feeling that nothing on this forum even matters. Every day, there are dozens of posts about senseless, meaningless topics. A guy is crying because he got jerked off by a trans woman. Leo says we need to do 40 years of 5-meo in order to experience enlightenment (how old is Leo again?). People are arguing about whether you need to do hardcore practices in order to be enlightened or not. It doesn't matter. None of this is enlightenment. If you think enlightenment is in a pill or in practices, you're still in a dream. They might be able to help you get close to seeing what it can be, but those are not enlightenment. I see a lot of people who have gone through a single awakened moment and believe they are fully enlightened, yet their every word denies this possibility. I'm certainly not enlightened either, but at least I'm able to say it. And to point out when I'm being egoic, like in this and my previous statement. It's getting a little tiring. Stuff I'm working on for me: Being a bit more selfish... I've isolated myself too much in order to be available at any point in time. I need to be able to say no when I want, or to be busy in my own life. I need a life outside of just work and family as well. It's actually very difficult to do this. My ego identifies with selflessness, and it's almost painful at times to deny that. Health stuff. It's ongoing. It sucks. It's not going to get better, and I need to be okay with that. No one ever said it would be easy. Motivation. In general... motivation is very low on a lot of things. Basically everything. Feeling like a lot of things don't matter, but I still need to do them. Work is a big one. Went to a job site a while back and felt borderline incompetent. Was not a good feeling. I still did my job though. My place is in front of a computer, not in the field, but I can be content wherever I'm needed. Boss is being hypocritical in a lot of ways. He says it's hard to get work done when people aren't in the office. I requested a day at home because my wife has a doctor's appointment and I need to watch the kids. He was upset because my coworker has been working from home nearly 40% of the time consistently for the past several months and he can't say no. Boss has been in the office an average of an hour or two a day for the past three months. But I'm the one who's a problem when I was in the field recently (for work) and ask for a single day at home. Not sure if this is egoic of me to complain... or if that's even a negative thing. Not sure how to meld the Law of Attraction to make this a positive. Emotions are very neutral right now. I'm not sad or depressed, but I'm not happy either. I just am. I would almost rather be blissfully ignorant.

@Umar_uk why do people wanna get awakened?

"Give you and example. I can rest in a meditative state and fall asleep and i even hear my snorring many times. In that state i can wake up any time or simply stay in that state and tap in difrerent organs of the body. Afterz all togetehr if you have Awakened, and so one can see different perspectives of reallity." - Is this a result of sustained efforts for cultivating awareness or did this happen to your naturally as an awakening? Is there a manual on how to do this?

Paranormal activity from the point of view of the dormant, is supernatural. From the point of view of the awakened is natural, like breathing.

No, is about pairing all the organs together and have a bigger conscious mind, like 90% bigger. Now you are using less than 5% of your neural system, because you stay un the muscles with your attention, in the cortex, mamallian brain. The other 90% of the brain capacity is be reptilian parta if the body, like the circulation system, lymphatic system, endoctrine and so on. So Awakening is being conscious of your subconscious. Give you and example. I can rest in a meditative state and fall asleep and i even hear my snorring many times. In that state i can wake up any time or simply stay in that state and tap in difrerent organs of the body. Afterz all togetehr if you have Awakened, and so one can see different perspectives of reallity. In other words the enlightened ones have no more subconscious, only the dormant, this is the reason we call the that.

@astrokeen The power of questions. Ya. This I awakened prior to psychedelics, with the shroom giving the full monty. 5meo is more like a crystalline nitrous buzz. Very enjoyable.

Those are serious allegations, IF true. But I have no idea who this woman is or if she is being accurate, or if she is somehow disgruntled. Again, the only way to adjudicate this matter is to dig into all the details and see it for yourself. I am not in the business of doing that. All I do is make general meta points about how cults work, so people are armed with the best wisdom possible. One of my top values with Actualized.org from day one is independence. I strongly discourage my students from worshiping anyone or being loyal to any one teacher or teaching, including myself. This should be obvious from the body of my work. From what I can intuit, there probably ARE some cult-like activities happening in Mooji's community. How bad it is, I have no idea. But none of this changes his status of being awakened in my book. To what degree he is awake is hard to say. In the end it doesn't really matter to me because I don't hinge anything on it. People who worship him are fools. Women who sleep with him and expect something from it other than sex, are also fools. To me this is so obvious it doesn't even require saying. But I certainly understand how young naive spiritual seekers can get suckered into it. But also keep in mind that if a spiritual teacher is doing his job right, there will be plenty of people who hate him and spread totally fictious rumors about him. People make shit up about me all the time. It's quite shocking to see totally false stuff written about you. I've seen it and it always baffles me. That's because the ego-mind finds very creative ways to deny truth, often attacking the messenger. It cannot be otherwise. Ignorance cannot help being ignorant. Both of these things can be true simutaneously. As a general rule of thumb: be very careful about joining any ashram. They are notoriously cult-like in various ways because no one there has bothered to study cult dynamics. To be awake does not mean you automatically understand cult dynamics.

Im going to make a case for assigning value to the instinctive center that is equal to the intellectual and emotional center. I remember Leo mentioning in his last video how intellegent the instinctive centers are. I think his comment was in reference to the function of the body and autonomic nervous system. A bird building a nest is also a good example of the intelligence of this center. This innate knowledge that is carried in each specific species with their different kinds of nests. The speed of the nervous system and the animal instincts are another consideration. This is seen in car wrecks and disasters of various kinds. Or in a close call traffic incident when our animal instinct will suddenly make the fine adjustments necessary to steer the car through a gap of debree that has two inches to spare on each side at 60 mph. It happens faster than we can think. It is also faster than emotions. In the case of the near miss, we don't get scared or mad until we get down the road just a little. If the debris in the road was caused by humans only after the fact do we start thing what we're going to say to the son-of-a-bitch that's responsible!! The emotions are so much quicker than the intellect, that's why are temper gets us in trouble or makes a fool out of us. Having sensation in body awareness is a natural tool for counter balancing and balancing the intellectual emotional complex The Belly Quality of Basic Trust The presence of basic trust indicates that you have the innate sense that life is fundamentally benevolent, and that that benevolence exists independent of you and your actions. You will have this sense to the extent that your grounding in the universe has not been disturbed. The relative presence or absence of basic trust is a belly quality, something one’s whole being is either grounded in or not. The disturbance of basic trust is a significant factor in ego development because the perspective of ego is diametrically opposed to the sense of basic trust. The ego’s perspective arises out of a lack of this trust. It is based on distrust, on paranoia, on fear, on the conviction that you’re not going to be adequately taken care of and that the universe is not there to hold and take care of you in the ways that you need. This conviction causes you to believe that you have to engage in all kinds of manipulations and games to get your needs met and to make things work out. Facets of Unity, pg. 25 Distinguishing Physical Sensation from Essential Substance The capacity to sense oneself must become so refined that the individual can discriminate between physical sensation and the sensation of essential substance. It is not enough that the mind be quiet. It is also necessary for the body to be sensitive. The mind can be quiet while the body is deadened. The body has to be awakened so that the center of sensing, the belly center, can be activated. The belly center, or what Gurdjieff called the physical center, is the center of sensing for all parts of the body. Its deepest function is the subtle sensing, the sensing of essential presence, that the Sufis call the organ for touch. Touch is, in a sense, the most intimate of the physical senses. The skin must be directly against an object to touch it. There is no intermediary medium, like sound for hearing or light for seeing. So this subtle capacity is a very intimate one. Accurately speaking, it is sensing essence by being essence. It is the most direct way of perception. This capacity of touch, connected with the belly center, is very intimately connected with the embodiment of essence. It is the body center; its mode of perception is embodiment. Here, perception as touch, and being, are the same act. So this capacity is the most important one. Essence with the Elixir of Enlightenment, pg. 130 Maybe more later. I'm sleepy.

I would LOVE this! People into spirituality I feel need to have a better understanding at the interconnection between nonduality and politics. I notice a lot of people into spirituality (particularly on this forum) are quite politically retarded in regards to their understanding. If we want a more conscious and awakened world in a way that is both not a pipe dream and sustainable, we need a more conscious politics. Theres a reason Sadhguru, Buddha, the Dalai Lama, Krishna, and reknown mystics both past and modern, and have worked with the rulers of their civilization to help bring transformation for those in power in order to bring conscious transformation to the people.

Except what you call "awakening" and "enlightenment" are not TRUE awakenings and enlightenments. If you are high on power, this means that you are unconscious, and if you are unconscious - it means that you are asleep. There is a difference between getting the taste of awakening and actually having an awakening. True enlightenment doesn't give you anything you don't already have. You used to be a Christian, so you probably understand when Jesus warned about false prophets and masters. The ones that you think are "enlightened" and "awakened" but they are not. Mooji is a good example of that.

Leo is merely being understanding and saying things aren’t black and white. Tight knit communities that are involved in spiritual work will undoubtably have unhealthy dynamics. Cult dynamics. Regular communities are unhealthy. Add the gruelling and destabilising nature of the spiritual path and you might fall and hurt yourself. Hurting yourself is a small matter though. Will you learn, understand and grow at that point in time or will you be a simpleton? Demonising others will not allow you to understand them, and you can not accept that which you fail to understand. That which you paint with a broad brush. Not defending mooji. Not a fan of him. Though I was listening to him when I awakened. Point being you can learn from all of life or you can demonise it, put other down and prolong your life of stress and ignorance.

I think the first step would be to stop considering it as wage slavery and taking control of your own life and finances instead of feeling like someone else controls it. This might require you to sacrifice a little more than you feel you're willing to, or just focusing on saving a bit more. However, there are plenty of awakened minds that started with little money. As long as you are not overly concerned about your basic survival needs, you can move beyond financial constraints.

Well, the truth/false dichotomy is a dualism that creates a perspective that separates 'what is' into two parts, true and false. There is just what is, there isn't an opposite to what is because what isn't..... isn't anything, it does not exist. There only is what is, there is no opposite, it isn't. So 'false' is still what is. The self is what is, ego is what is, the physical manifest is what is. It's all what is because what isn't... is not. Once one is awakened to this transcendent yet simple perspective of being it's so obvious it can't be unseen and the veil of duality in the mind is seen for what it is. The self suffering can come when someone has a perspective in this truth/false dualism because it may cause conflict of being with what is yet they believe it isn't. Transcending the truth/false dualism of separation that causes self suffering is liberation, it's the absolute unity of being.

@WHO IS ?? “Whatever precious jewel there is in the heavenly worlds, there is nothing comparable to one who is awakened.” The Buddha (Sutta Nipata) “To support mother and father, to cherish partner and children, and to be engaged in peaceful occupation - this is the greatest blessing.” The Buddha (Mangala A powerful nonduality. “The root of suffering is attachment.” - WHO IS