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@Nondescript Welcome to the forum. You’re at the right place. Lots of people here sharing very similar experience, trying to make sense of things, and helping each other out. I relate a lot with what you shared. Specifically the ‘inconsistent reality’ of electronics. I agree with you, there is a higher power, and I suggest it is showing you the possibilities of tuning into the subtleties in ‘everyday reality’. In my experience, there is infinite intelligence, infinite love, at play. This infinity appears as objects, people, etc - everyday stuff. But it is not everyday stuff, it is a miracle. Sounds like you were fortunate enough to experience a big phat dose of this. We’re all a little jelly. ? Perhaps what you experienced, is at the least, on the fringe of nonduality, or maybe, a strong inclination of it. That will probably be confusing af for a bit, but ultimately, it is the most worthwhile discovery, and relationship possible. There is an ‘impression of me as an individual’ which gets purged, or purified, as the delusion of this begins to be noticed, and eventually realized. Doubts & fears will be triggered, because none of them are true, nor were they ever true. Love is true, you are true, all is well - is actually true. The brain’s gonna try to hang on to perspectives to the contrary of this. As it does, use everything at your disposal, meditation, exercise, videos by nonduality teachers, clean eating, and be as open and honest as you can - make use of the forum. As you’re continuing to wake up, careful with what you share with people who are deluded with duality, they will think you are crazy. You are certainly not crazy. This is going to lead to things so wonderful, that you can’t even imagine right now, and most people, unfortunately, will never relate or investigate for themselves. The forum is a fine community for sharing these things. Don’t suppress or ignore, share. Give Jim Carrey a search on Youtube. He’s done some ‘fractal outbursts’, etc, and it might be comforting to see someone else going through the phases of waking up. It’s not happening ‘in your head’, you are not psychotic, there is most definitly God ☺️. A book or two, and some videos on nonduality will reveal to you much peace. Meditation also. That is why this is happening. Because you’re ready, and you can handle it. You’re waking up, to the adventure of a lifetime, follow that tease, those breadcrumbs of bliss. All is well. It’s supposed to be fun - but that will always be up to you. This kinda sums of life nicely, doesn’t it?..... “physical manifestations along with mystical experience”

I don't know if this is too nitpicky, but the eyes don't make the distinction as all it does is transfer information. It has to be processed. Something that is very fast and doesn't inherently depend on thought. Identification does i'd say. But separation of things in sight seems to be automatic. Lots of things are happening outside of your conscious awareness. Calling duality the same as distinction depends on perspective. I wouldn't call duality or distinction inherently false as what it is fragmenting is there, but it can distract from seeing the whole. So it ends up becoming very illusory. Many in nonduality seek to make the nondual intellectual understandings shift into awareness. To experience nonduality instead of just learning the concept of it.

Well, I never said it mattered. Leo only argued about the general tendency of Buddhist teachings and notice he promoted more integral teachings. This post is about Buddhism so it makes sense to address about specific cautions and criticisms about Buddhism but you seemed to take that as some exclusion to other teachings. You sound like me when I transitioned from Christianity to Atheism. Its very simple: Distinction creates dualities and so on. So its as subjective as morality. So really as a whole all you have is just everything as one thing. aka nonduality. Our "creator" is the most fundamental form/substance of everything. That is what those on the nondual path often defines as God which therefore makes you it. Separating you and God is nothing but a distinction you create.

@Emanyalpsid If anybody is following Leo blindly without putting into the work to verify it for themselves then they are already doing it wrong. Leo has always promoted not to just believe him but to put what he says into practice and truly figure out if it works or not. Everything he has said is nothing new. Nonduality has existed for thousands of years. Yes spiral dynamics can be used to dismiss people because people stuck in a specific part of the spiral don't see the inherent problems with it while those above it do. Turquoise has problems too, it'll take rising above that to figure it out though. All SD does is explain their way of thinking. You don't need drugs to experience such things, they just accelerate the growth of it. If somebody has an either-or thinking mentality you'd likely dismiss that too because its a false dilemma.

Don’t you see we are saying the same? Coral is not in duality of identity silly head. When have you ever experienced verbalizing such things as “them being closed minded”, without soon discovering nonduality again? Who are them, Robert?

An understanding of nonduality is not nonduality, it’s a filter on duality, resulting in confusion. An idea of infinity, or death, is not infinity, or, “death”. Help people understand the self imposed nature of suffering, consciousness is not an identity in dualism, it’s all there is.

@Faceless @Joseph Maynor Hello my old friends, as I see, you guys are still locked in nonduality paradigm. I challange you to forget that conditioning. I challange you to stop all of your practices for a month. Try to integrate back to normal life (or as we would call it duality). Observe the changes and then let’s talk after a month. I want to show you that what appears the Truth to you now is no more than conditioning of your subconscious over the long period of time. Be more open minded. Challange your worldview, challange your Truth. I did and I broke it down. I went through 4 completely different worldviews over the past 3 years and I finally found the true one. the Truth is you always have a worldview whether you are aware of it or not. Whether you are “enlightened” or not. You perceive reality always as you are... but reality is one.

Jesus does not “fix” challanges. Through only Jesus I can be purified. He died on the cross to save me, you and all of humanity. He transforms me in an unbelievable way. I was able to quit most of my bad habits since I have been touched by him. Moreover, he completely ended my nonduality and meditation addiction. But back then I was not aware that those could be addictive...

I had been what you would call “Enlightened to nonduality” and I reversed everything back. Now you judge.

Spiral dynamics is a tool for advancement on the Mind watch out! Nonduality rises after one integrates all. But is not accurate. The tool is very good for the right side of the matter. To tap into the middle side of the matter, there is no more matter.

@Shin I would not introduce words like "Spirituality" or "Nonduality" or "The Path". They just become a virus of the ego. I would start with the simple question of "what do you want?". If he/she doesn't want anything there is no need for teaching in the first place. And if he/she wants something, then the teaching and style of teaching is relative to that wanting something.

I am not here to argue with those who want to stay asleep and ignorant, but to show the way of Jesus to those, who are close to waking up and want to end the nonduality delusion!

This is a question directed specifically at @Leo Gura, but I would love to hear everyone's view on this issue. Does the Spiral Dynamics theory imply that one can enter the domain of Spirituality / Deep Metaphysics more easily if he has first entered stage Turquoise? To clarify the question a bit: Would it be easier to embody Enlightenment / Absolute Infinity if one has already reached Turquoise as opposed to someone who is at stage Red or Blue or Orange, for example. I ask this because of 2 things: I gather that Turquoise has values such as Consciousness, Elevating mankind’s consciousness, Truth, Deep metaphysical insight, Wisdom, the wisdom of nature, Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality, God, divinity, Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis, Integrating all religions & science, etc. These values almost completely point to Absolute Infinity. Also the examples you gave about Turquoise individuals seem pretty enlightened to me. Does this mean that for any spiritual pursuits to be effective one must first reach Turquoise. On one of the mega-threads about SD you mentioned that the Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, etc., weren't at Turquoise. How then did they embody AI / God if there was almost certainly no such thing as Green or Yellow or Turquoise for that matter? You say that Red and Blue were the dominant stages of the time. Perhaps their approach to Spirituality was a brute-force one where they say, "Fuck it!" to the stages and attack the beast head on! Assuming this is what they did, what approach do you recommend to newbies in this work - gradual or brute -force? I guess my question in a nutshell is: What's the relation between Turquoise and full-blown Enlightenment?

If they are paying your bills, it might be wise to just accept some of those simple compromises like not buying pork or alcohol. Once you are paying for yourself you can buy whatever you want. Freedom has to be earned. You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation. If you are pursuing nonduality, the irony is that you are more Muslim than they are. But don't tell them that

Anything you posit that created reality must, by definition, be part of reality, becauase reality is everything that is. Reality could only have created itself because there is nothing outside reality. There is nothing outside infinity. Inside/outside is a relative duality. Infinity does not have an inside and outside. It just is. You CAN have it both ways! That's the nature of Infinity and nonduality! It is includes all opposites.

Coral will remain unattainable, an implication of, the “holy grail” - a punchline. If I am nondual, and you are nondual, what distinctions remain for words which unify? None. What words do you say to yourself, in samadhi? None. What words do you say to yourself in appearance of physicality? None. What would there be to say? Nothing. What reason to say it? None. Paradoxically, spiral dynamics doesn’t actually exist at the “coral level”. It’s a thought, in appearance, on appearance. SD’s strengthens perception of duality via distinctions, until it collapses on itself in nonduality. Coral is the innocence of the dreamer, the colorless rainbow, a promise, Horton.

@okulele You must realize that meditation is nothing more than self hypnosis. You are emptying your rational mind allowing your subconscious to be conditioned and programmed by whatever is influencing you in that moment. Usually here people self hypnotize themselves into nonduality ilussion.

@Nahm Can you please be more specific here? Do I need to learn advanced maths like Godel's incompleteness theorem and quatum physics to get to nonduality? Sounds to me we're just playing word game

Spiral Dynamics is not a measure of nonduality. It is a measure of cognitive, emotional, moral, and cultural development. This a very important distinction. You can be fully nondual but still at a low level of development. Development is distinct from states of consciousness and you are not going to attain a high level of development merely by sitting on a cushion.

I guess so. But im the guy that don’t want to go cliff diving in the first place. I can see the point of green and maybe yellow. But how can you be happy with nonduality if there is nothing to be happy about? And if you truly destroyed your ego wouldnt you just starve to death or forget to breathe? I don’t think you can ever destroy the ego without having an actual death. Just make it smaller. But even if it was smaller, wouldnt there just be less of a difference between happy and sad because the ego is smaller? It’s just neutral. At least in turquoise. I don’t think looking at an empty white wall is more fun than looking at art or a movie.

@Baotrader About the juice, I meant, if nonduality is accurate, then you are Einstein & Buddha, and “Einstein & Buddha” reveal something to you, about you, from you. I’d say the point is the teacher’s experience, and the student’s experience, and the experience of each allowing the experience of the other, unless they’re enlightened, then, like you pointed out, there’s no point, except the experience. I hear what you’re saying about Leo & Sadhguru, but in the same vein, what does that say to you, in your awakening? Maybe upon your enlightenment, you’ll be the one to resolve the hard problem of science, bridging the quantum & atomic. That’d be really cool I assume. Maybe Leo’s already done that though. It’s inherently confusing, the matter of what another person would do in enlightenment. Lol.

joy of life begins in nonduality your ego is fooling "you"...

I don’t want to evolve if that means life is going to get boring and pointless. Tier 2 seems like it’s just washing away the colors of life. Especially with nonduality.

Another thing: This sentence shows that you experience duality between you and the outside world. Sure you might have self-realized and achieved non-duality within, but enlightenment doesn't end there. Later comes god consciousness, and after that unity consciousness where you will truly realize nonduality between the inner and the outer. Remember what christ said: When you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner, there you shall find me.

What I'm about to describe is NOT: - The experience of music aided by drugs - The feeling of listening to your favorite song - Related to meditation music, meditating with music, etc. - Being affected by lyrics - Dancing / Being at a concert Sometimes I get this jolt of higher consciousness / (nonduality?) when I'm spending time with friends I'm very close to while listening to music. This can happen when I'm alone as well but it's more common with other people. We'll go for walks in the forest, go on long drives, spend time at the beach, take pictures, have dinner, make music together, and have deep conversations. Usually while we're hanging out we're listening to a certain hip hop / rock / electronic album or sometimes just pop music from different eras. There are certain moments during these hangouts / trips that the weather is just perfect, the vibe is just perfect, the music hits perfectly and for a brief moment all pain fades, I'm one with the universe so to speak. Just being, content with existence, relishing the moment, seeing the beauty in everything and where whats in my imagination and whats in my perceptions lose boundaries. I know this is more than just a good feeling in the music, because it doesn't happen all the time when listening to these songs. But in the right environment, with the right mindset, the music is the thing that just pushes me over the edge into this euphoric state. I believe the music is part of it, but its moreso that the music opens me up emotionally so to speak and in that moment I am able to fully embrace being. It's in these moments where I think I understand what Leo often talks about as nothingness and infinity, it's like an infinite nothingness, and all I can respond with is awe. I sometimes wonder if that is what enlightenment is, to experience this feeling nonstop, if so that would be a bit overwhelming! I wanted to get your opinions on this, and any other music that opens you up to experiencing being in this way. If you're curious, here's a few "magic moments" in songs where my friends and I have experienced this feeling.