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@zurew All I am saying is that killing yourself is not the solution to end the suffering. Because I do not see how it is the solution. It could end up better or worse. If you are advocating for suicide as the solution, then the burden of proof is on you to prove that it gets better. Else it would not be a solution. I do not discount the possibility that it could better after killing yourself. But like you said, you do not have proof for it.

Arguments like that don't work. The main premise is that you have unbearable suffering right now, and you know that if you don't end your life you will continue to suffer. Lets say it is a fact, that there is plenty of suffering after you die. That isn't an argument against suicide, because you will die either way, so by living you would just delay the suffering that will come after your death - but in this case you are not really delaying suffering because you are suffering right now. The argument could possibly work if you could establish with certainty either that guaranteed suffering awaits you after you commit suicide (but you won't suffer if you don't commit suicide ) OR you would have to establish that there is a guaranteed suffering that will await you after death (regardless if you kill yourself or not) ,but that kind of suffering will be greater than the suffering you are experiencing right now. The gamble arguments don't work unless you can demonstrate that a negative outcome is more probable than the opposite - if you can't do that , then your argument isn't an argument for anything ,because it can go either way (in this context maybe not killing yourself will for some random reason make you suffer more in the afterlife).

Not surprisingly, this is a complicated issue. A recent research report recommended reconsidering legalization of EAS. "First, we would argue that wishes for death or suicide, even when clearly articulated by the patient to doctors or next-of-kin, and even if it represents the true will at that very moment, this desire or wish for death will likely change in many of these cases. As we have pointed out above, such an articulated death wish, can be a symptom of the disorder and may in reality convey several other possible messages, that have more to do with the patient feeling abandoned, disappointed or angry. It may also convey a wish for help to live rather than a wish for help to die. Second, we would claim that the notion of personality disorders as “untreatable” conditions and “without prospects of improvement” are based on outdated knowledge about the state of PD treatment. Today, a range of effective psychotherapeutic interventions are available for people with personality disorders in most of the countries that have so far legalized EAS. That this has seemingly escaped the attention of both legislators and expert medical communities is deeply disturbing. It may be that the current lack of effective psychotropic medication to treat personality disorders could have made many physicians and psychiatrists not specializing in PD treatment less optimistic about the prognosis in people with PDs and the prospects of receiving effective treatment in general. We urgently call for a revision of the current legislation and practice of EAS for people with personality disorders which we believe, is currently based on an inadequate understanding of these peoples’ needs and their potentials for having a life worth living." https://bpded.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40479-020-00131-9

BPD can be a really taxing, stubborn, life-long condition. It's hard for such people to live normal well-functioning lives because their mind is so chaotic. It's no surprise that such people have a high suicide rate. It's hard for a normal person to understand the hell that BPD can be and how stubborn it is.

I started taking it because it was prescribed by my psychiatrist after I was at the brink of suicide at a cliff. I got sent to a psych ward. In hindsight, I think I could have overcome my depression without medication because I forgot how strong thoughts and emotions feel like. I feel like I don't exist basically. But maybe that's a good thing because I see the truth in it. I stopped taking it because it made me too lethargic and it made my body feel weak and after quitting cold turkey, that problem was resolved. I had the most psychedelic visuals that engulfed my field of view after I woke up from dreams during the first 3 days quitting. And dreams got pretty vivid. I know because SSRIs act on serotonin, it also affects the pineal gland. Maybe that played a role in my first awakening somehow. Since taking and after quitting, things just look brighter and almost otherworldly now. A shift in perception most likely happened somehow. Despite the physical side effects of lethargy and weak body gone, I still feel the effects of emotional anaesthesia, poor memory and brain fog here and there but it is certainly getting better when compared to how it was like in the first days of quitting.

I discovered I was diagnosed with this at a young age. To my understanding, PDD-NOS is a euphemism for mild autism. I was socially awkward, anxious and had weird habits that neurotypicals found strange. First impressions people made of me were fine, but the more people got to know me, the more people knew I was not normal. This lead to people distancing from me subconsciously and not talking as much. I wasn't the most entertaining or charismatic either. I wasn't exactly a looker too. Due to extreme feelings of isolation, I eventually attempted suicide at a cliff but of course survival instinct kicked in. But in the moment, I thought that the cliffs looked beautiful with the sunset. I was sort of just engrossed in the beauty of it. Maybe that was the start of my awakening? But long story short, I did get pretty suicidal knowing that I will never be normal. But these days, seeing what normies do, I'm glad to be not normal anyway.

People just don't get how truly fucked up severe mental illness is. I don't necessarily endorse assisted suicide but I can understand the motivation.

In my opinion, we can bring a quicker end to this debate by asking ourselves "who's decision should it be?", the person themselves or the people around them? Who gets to decide when a person dies? In a controlled environment, I think you should have the right to do it. I am for Assisted suicide, you're all free to be upset, disappointed at a persons choice but it's theirs to make not yours.

Well, in my dreams I have been Spiderman, I have been a master Jedi stronger than even Anakin/Luke/Yoda, I have jumped immeasurable distances, or even flying. In a dream if I hurt someone, in a flash they can turn into something else or the dream can change, there is never such inconsistency in waking. If I hurt someone in waking, I have to live with that, correct? Or face consequences, I can't just wake up and be done with it. Unless suicide, but they say that's not cool bro. Maybe dream = fantasy, but waking = mathematical fantasy, making it real at its core. 1 unit +1 unit will be 2 units. Not in dreams though. I recently had a dream where I lift a cushion and it just spawns another cushion in its place for me to lift. That breaks maths hard! Its not real.

Hmm, didn't see anyone recommending something that could actually help. Don't expect it to be easy because life is not, but if you want to have hope in life and improve your mental health - figure out who you are (existentialy), what life is (metaphysically), and how to reach enlightenment. Because you are not doing that of course you are depressed; you are wasting your life stuck in the matrix, and the matrix is evil. Everyone is depressed to varying degrees, you are probably simply more deeply in touch with it. Life is suffering, but there is a way out. Suicide doesn't help, because you die, stay a bit on the other side and reincarnate into the same shithole again. What works is spiritual practices. Everything else is playing around with shadows until you die and repeat. I'm not treating you with kiddy gloves here, so hopefully you are mature enough for it.

So suicide is the solution? And yes, the human body is a deterministic system. We can study the inside out of it. There is a solution.

@Applegarden8 Quite agree because when suicide get legitimacy, the desperate mind might get locked on that idea and stop trying to challenge itself and to look for solutions out of his depression. Therefore to tell someone that even in theory suicide can be sometimes a valid option is highly irresponsible.

When it becomes an industry, it is worse. The problem is very big. Society offers little to no solution to the suicide problem, but here no "hollistic suicide (they are going to kill themselves anyway) therapy" solution works, because it's your life you are taking. Normalizing suicide is something I feel is deeply wrong existentially. What you can discover in life even if you are in a bad situation if you choose to consciously rejuvenate. Who knows how many births you took before to be in the place you are now, to be on this planet with somebody who could guide you, let alone find something that gives you liberation from birth and death. All just for this... Unacceptable. Those who found why to live can guide you for those who are suicidal. Those who found something internally will most likely will never commit it. There is an obvious reason why. But such apathy has happened in that person so that you can't reach her. To support killing people is just... horrible. If you want to die. It's your problem, learn to live. This is brutal, incomplete and fucked up, but there is no alternative. But the effort is worth it when you discover something meaningful. It is there. The magic of life is there. Just, please, don't give up on yourself. If you feel suicidal and have nothing to live for, wish for freedom, wish for enlightenment. Wish for God, wish for becoming a sage. Start accepting that maybe what is responsible for your depression is the ignorance of truth and what you have known has only survival utility value but is not what will make you happy. The paradigm we are living from (what the masses think) is bound to make you angry, suicidal, jelous, envious, fearful, powerless and hurt. These ideas usually are empty. But if there are such empty ideas the opposite has to be true for some other ideas and concepts. The journey is brutal, the Dark night of the soul is there. You will sit there with dread, loneliness, numbness and blisslessness, to then start feeling what you really are.

The problem of suicide is that it is a choice you would never make out of love. And that should tell you the validity of such actions. All actions that are not of love are of ego. And such actions lead only to more suffering not less. Only love inspired actions can lead to kingdom you're so looking for in all the wrong places.

I don’t know if this is of any help but I have identified as a boy/man and male for the majority of my life. In the beginning I was believing what I was told by my parents, peers, culture but something kicked in around 5 years old that didn’t reflect everyone identifying me as a girl. It was persistent and severely distressing so I was treated in my teens when I was finally referred to a clinic after years of therapists, psychiatrists ending in a suicide attempt. My ‘feelings’ turned out to have a biological basis. Although I looked female, I had gonadal disgenesis which wasn’t known till my teens when I was tested for disorders during my diagnosis process. I participated in a study in 2014 that showed I had a mutation in one of my genes that is typical of males but not females. It cannot currently be tested but I speculate my BNSTi in my hypothalamus falls into the male range as this is what is seen in brain autopsy studies of transgenders. There is an argument over neurological studies as the standard deviation and error bars issue in the research methodology shows too much overlap between the sexes but a recent development by a professor Menon ( Stanford university) taught an AI with large American and European samples of ‘cis’ gendered male and female brains by fMRI and identified three regions that seem to be sex specific. When the AI was used to identify the next set of scans, it identified whether the person was male or female ( as in they are both biologically and identify congruently) with above 90% accuracy. If the incorrect identifications are ironed out, or the reason possibly being these people are actually biologically variant but don’t know, then this will end the statistical overlap argument and potentially be used as a diagnostic tool. ( just for context, it was created as a tool to be used for helping diagnose neurological disorders that are sex specific. There has been no use of the method on trans but the software is available for anyone who should like to do this) having gone through awakening, I know I am ‘awareness’ and both identity and the perception of the body and all things in the objective universe are a construction of the mind. but if I were to come back into this ‘character or avatar’ that I’m experiencing I would say that it contains biological attributes of both sexes that in whatever combination or whichever attribute is predominant, expresses as a male gender. I as this avatar am not male or female but both. Whichever factor was predominant is what has swayed me to go to conformity within the societal expectation of a male/man. I do not identify as trans and do not engage with the lgbt community. I got my treatment and reintegrated back into the society I came from.( I believe a lot of problem stem from the creation of trans as an identity rather than a description of a biological variant) while my body ( as does everyone’s) contains dimorphic structures that can change to either male or female via chemical triggers( secondary characteristic), anything that required physical development during gestation has been surgically altered to the best of a surgeons ability so my superficial, bodily appearance is male. While I can orgasm I do not have the reproductive or hormonal production of either male or female and never have. That is managed artificially. My condition is invisible and doesn’t exist in day to day life. I fulfill my role as a man, a husband, a brother and a son and my condition doesn’t exist until I mention it and it forms in the mind of a person who is told. Pre conceived beliefs begin to be projected onto me and ‘their’ behavior changes. The reality was their direct experience prior to me telling them anything which was completely normal. After telling them, they start projecting their ideas onto me. This has prompted me to never talk about it for both my and the other persons sake. For me to create discomfort in a weak minded person who cannot control their own thoughts and resulting behavior would not be very conscious of me so I no longer do it. Since dissolving the ego somewhat there is no need or feeling to justify my identification. It just is. if this stuff is to be taught to young children then it should be approached holistically encompassing not just variations but the two binaries between which that spectrum appears. All of it needs to be taught with equal importance. Sexual Biology ‘is’ binary in a human and that is the male or female deviation of a dimorphic structure of which there are many in the body. Multiple simplex binary structures can all be coherent or sometimes incoherent causing complex variants we see as the many emergent genders. thats only one explanation but we can’t forget there is the purely psychological recognition of social constructs and those who loosen themselves from that regardless of the biological underlying attributes. both exist. Everything we know is highly complex and emergent from a simplex unity. the complexity of our culture and the understanding of biology and our higher psychological faculties is not something that can be taught to a child. We only know these things from having gone through all these experiences, overcoming our animalistic reactions and becoming more aware of our cognitive functions, studying, contemplating and regaining mastery over them. perhaps it would be better to teach children awareness and awareness of complexity instead of trying to break the complexity appart to save them from the experiences they inherently have to go through to learn?

The Fundamentals Philosophical inquiry and research are the cornerstones of philosophy, a discipline that seeks to understand fundamental questions about knowledge, reality, existence, ethics, and more. But before one can even begin to do philosophy, it is unexpressably crucial to understand what it is exactly that you are doing as well as how you are doing it. Why? Because unlike any other field of study, or any other discipline, or any other type of investigation, whether it be scientific or social, in fact, unlike any other thing that you've come across before: the problems which the philosopher occupies oneself with are, in the most blunt sense of the word, real problems which present themselves unavoidably to the thoughtful mind. This is because contrary to other occupations, or whatever, the philosopher doesn't busy oneself with the problems of the world. To the philosopher, those problems are about as trivial as the problems of a child when it reaches its impulsive stage. No. The philosopher busies oneself with problems that are terrifyingly much more closer to home than those that have to do with survival, s/he busies oneself with the problems of consciousness. It is a natural response for many to shrug of such statements about man's problems as nothing more than mere rant. Sure, it may not seem like it now, but just as rivers run and the winds blow, the average man is more burdened by one's consciousness than s/he is by one's need to survive. Of course, this is not something that s/he might admit under groundless circumstances. It is more likely that s/he hasn't even begun to realize this, let alone suspect it. But it is not that difficult to realize, just difficult to want to realize it. After all, to simply begin, you'd only need to wonder why people commit suicide. What is so burdensome to the extent of overcoming one's most fundamental of extints – survival? The truth is – philosophy is not a discipline – philosophy is discipline. It's not something that you study either, the only thing we can study is its history and other people's impressions of it. But the true philosopher has never been a student of philosophy, s/he has only ever been a plain man who does philosophy. Philosophy is something that you do. And to the philosopher, the problems of consciousness aren't problems, they are simply matters of consciousness which only becomes problematic if ignored. So what is it that the philosopher does when s/he does philosophy? Does s/he ask questions? Is philosophy asking questions? That's what other occupations seem to think. Philosophy seeks to understand the fundamental questions, right? The dictionary describes it as an investigation. And they are not wrong, its process can be described as investigative. Yes. But is that what philosophy really is? Questions? They only recognize the questions, never mind their source. Because such is the mentality which sees itself fit to define to the world what philosophy is. We ask questions all the time, we ask questions because it's necessary for our survival. But then why bother with the fundamental questions when there's no direct reward for knowing the answers? One's social or economic circumstances don't change from doing philosophy. And if there's ultimately no way of proving yourself right in anything you might come up with, then what's the point? This is the reason why the average will not bother oneself with such a regardless endeavor, for s/he only ever concerns oneself with things, not being. Philosophy is being, in that it is true being, not the falsehood of "human being". It is an action, not a reaction. It is initiative, it is pro-activity. Philosophy is the very movement of consciousness itself emerging from that dark place which is its own unconsciousness. It is the most natural, most unsuperficial, most authentic, activity that one can engage in. Yes. Philosophy is something that you do. Philosophy is thought itself. How consciousness moves, is through thought. But not just any sort of thought, it must be disciplined thought and not stimulated thought – an action, not a reaction. It's not just about questions. If it were, we would have accepted that we simply cannot know and moved on to engage in practical matters with the rest of the world, leaving philosophy in the past where it belongs. At least, that's the assumption. The fundamental questions aren't just questions. They are our fundamental thoughts, like the stars by which the less significant bodies orbit. Which means, though you might not be aware of it, every other non-fundamental but 'serious' questions you've ever asked ultimately leads back to the much bigger questions, and are discovered if followed through, which the average man doesn't. It's one of those things that s/he will do carelessly until a career can be made out of it, like with botany or geology or economics and etc. Then when s/he finally does follow through, actually studying the methods of philosophizing rather than doing it as carelessly as the common man does, s/he is called a philosopher. A question is never really a question if it is without an answer. The mind itself knows that much about its nature. No one makes a request of anything s/he doesn't suspect that s/he can receive. Its a ring that calls itself. Consciousness calls for its own development. At least that's what the fundamentals suggest: "who am I?", "what is the meaning of life?", "what is the nature of reality?".

Mental Illness is Illness. There is just 'illness' to consider. This is important, as you can put her life into context. If only these people knew they'd reincarnate, possibly in the same situation they left, because issues lay unresolved. This: She recalled her psychiatrist telling her that they had tried everything, that “there’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better.” Is not something a therapist would say. Suicide is also not a contagious disease, nor is death a liberation; it is a cycle. I agree that if someone is in enough physical pain for long enough, they should be able to end their life. To force a person to suffer for my own values is selfish (survival is a trait I admire). As someone who has had depression a great deal in my earlier years, I can compare it to accidents I've had in terms of pain. I've had accidents that were 10/10 - separating my bicep from my shoulder, or 7/10 for pain - broken ribs. I've been in depressive states; I would put at a 8/10 against those things, worse than living with a constant, regular broken rib sensation, but not as painful as the white-hot sensation of ripping two muscles. Imagine you live with this constant pain that sometimes is greater and sometimes less, but most of the time there is a full-bodied sensation of it, then I think you'd understand what depression, powerlessness, hopelessness, and shame feel like. There is a point where depression hits despair, and survival is no longer the main consideration, it's a very helpless state. So would I let a person who lived like I lived kill themselves? If treatments and medications don't lift depression, over several years, different specialists, with different practices attempt to treat them, and it's severe enough that they are having suicidal thoughts anyway. Yes. However, if there are weeks that a person is not suicidal, then there are weeks that a person is not in chronic pain. There has to be honest accounting, getting someone to the point of honesty is often crucial in treating them, so the two things can coincide for a better result. I would not want a person who was suffering a pain that could be managed/medicated to kill themselves no, I'd want them to get the support they need. Chronic pain is different.

I often wonder if suicide is wrong. Death could be the best thing that ever happens to us. Why do we fear it so much? Is not transcendence the ultimate goal of spirituality?

The fatality rate of 52% is extremely high. This also does not mean that the remaining people who survived may be doing well. Most of them may still have other nagging injuries like headache, extreme pain, being bedridden or they may die from other illness like heart attack but it's not recorded. I have an ex colleague who got covid, seemingly recovered but was in extreme pain that he went to commit suicide few months later by jumping off a building. And given that bird flu has spread widely before, the potential of spreading is still pretty damn high. I would stock up on masks at the very least.

It is flowery 🙂! Its too good to be true isnt it ? I believe wholeheartedly 100% in the Law of Attraction. Two years ago i was about to suicide myself because i dont have a girlfriend..i just used vision board and practiced manifestation and in less than a year i met a girl and i fucked her brains out llol. So i don't just "believe"..but I KNOW! The Law of Attraction is a law of the Universe just as the law of gravity. But instead of gravity LA works by your thoughts. So instead of an object being thrown or falling towards you..its your thoughts coming to you. Your thoughts are alive and whatever you think creates what you see in your life. 🙏

The secret reason is because they are truth and love, and the second reason is because each perspective of God can only know itself as the Absolute and can only understand other as itself if it can get outside of itself. But to get outside of yourself you have to go meta which requires exiting and killing your perspective. God as ego defines itself by its perspective, so you are complaining about them not committing ideological seppikku/ suicide. Each perspective is at a different maturity level and will test your maturity with their immaturity. Our level of maturity is defined by our ability to accept their lack of maturity and vice versa. But yeah I get your frustration. Understand that the human psyche's nature is to both assume and investigate. Assumption is easy, while investigation takes time and effort. We pick and choose what is worth our time due to love/preferences. The first truth to a human is what is comfortable, and that is due to survival.

I noticed it over 20 years ago. I was born with gonadal disgenesis but got lumped into the trans category by the doctors who at the time didn’t have much of a clue. I didn’t have phones or computers back then and there was nothing in the media. I was on my own with nothing to influence me. I knew what I was and that’s not what people were seeing externally and that was the greatest source of frustration turning to a raging anger. It felt like deliberate offense and disrespect but I know better now. Dissolving further till the ego was gone completely showed that this avatar contained biology of both male and female and that is just the way it is. There was a purpose and it has taught me a lot. never mind feeling something was off with myself but when I was put in touch with the small support group in my country I got the head bitten off me for asking simple questions as to what could be causing the condition. Fine I had it but I wanted to know why. Any suggestion or wanting to start a conversation to hash out possibilities ended in me being cast out of the group and ignored. This was 20 years ago when I was the youngest in the country to be treated. I also noticed with the lgbt scene in the city that people’s personas changed to fit a particular type of mannerism or expectation to ‘belong’ and I backed away from that too as I just wanted to reintegrate back into society, not further my exclusivity from it. Go back to normalcy as a man and not be skipping about the place identifying as ‘trans’.( people can do that if they want but I don’t agree with it.) i spoke with the head of the gender clinic here who noticed sudden change in the demographic since about 2014 and we’re basically looking at a phenomena called ‘Rapid onset gender dysphoria’ that may or may not be associated with genuine occurrences of transgenderism. ( there is a problem there in teens in particular with a link to autism in allot of cases.) it’s speculated to be a result of normalising the condition to integrate a very small group of people into society safely but it seems to have backfired in the way they are teaching it in schools in particular which leaves kids with the expectation they must be trans if they feel a bit of discomfort in themselves coming into their teens. this is made worse by the change in the diagnostic and treatment models adopted by the clinics. In my day there was a strict set of protocols and diagnosis criteria that had to be met including history of persistent claim of the sexual identity that had to be proven for two years after diagnosis before any treatment could be given. The model now is affirmation that just accepts a kids declaration with no question or medical investigation and no previous claims of the identity being persistent in childhood, it just suddenly appears! The previous model was at least able to filter out psychiatric issues. there was a fight to stop the long wait for treatment as there were individuals including myself who were literally on suicide watch cause we couldn’t take it anymore.( if I had been told I would be 27 by the time all my treatment would be completed… the Dysphoria was so severe it wouldn’t have been worth living) thankfully I was transferred to a European clinic and it was decided I would be treated immediately. I spent the next ten years trying to get legal recognition which eventually happened so I’m currently living life, married my wife, own a business and a house. No one knows about my condition because I don’t use it or identify with it. The last thing I wanted was for the whole thing to blow up into a high profile issue making it look like there are thousands of us taking over. It’s simply not true. the current problem with the rise in kids and teens coupled with the isolated perverted cases being extrapolated into the entire community has turned what was going so well, into a complete shit show. The negligence and lack of care in clinic now days is completely unacceptable. Activists see it as an attack on the trans community but no one is bothering to notice that there are kids getting hurt! The closure of the clinic in the uk has left genuine cases without treatment so they are getting hurt by all this fighting too. People are just swinging from one extreme to another without looking at the situation, it’s all fuelled by ideology, beliefs and emotion. the argument Rowling makes perplexed me when I first heard it and that was that her identity as a woman was being attacked and recategorised. I found it amusing that her complaint basically insinuated that another person external to herself was defining her own ability to declare or recognise herself as a woman. That sounds like a lack of self confidence and blaming the fact that there are different types of women appearing out there. I understand how she sees it but it is predominantly hateful. She doesn’t seem to understand Radcliffe and tompsons upset because they have friends who are trans. People they hang out with who have never hurt them and it is upsetting to see them being labelled as some abomination or threat to mankind. im fully aware of the self centred nature of some of these people but they are reacting in a defensive manner as the generational trauma of the group hasn’t had the space to heal yet. This new onslaught of the trans community has poked an already wounded beast so to speak and we see activists and some lgbt individuals getting quite violent as a result. I understand why but it’s still no excuse for the behaviour. I didn’t spend ten years of my life fighting in court for a legal right to recognition for the next generation to wipe their identities in everyone’s face. I’m deeply disappointed. it’s also disturbing to sit in plant medicine ceremonies and be a part of that ‘spiritual’ community listening to religion and right wing sentiments influence and infiltrate the community. Watching people I have a deep love for suddenly go on trans topic as I sit in the corner thinking if I were to ever say a word about my own story, I would be in immediate danger of being attacked due to the level of disgust and anger being vented by them.

When humans learnt to read and write, it's said many humans died out, who did not have this brain area. Are many of us dying out, who cannot cooperate with AI? When industrial revolution started, people destroyed machines, because they were feared of going extinct. Does this urge repeat on some level? Are some people going to see this reasoned? We cannot stop AI revolution - you can never stop what is more efficient. Still, we have to become somewhat depressed, really - this depression is about the change. There should be very deep depression to be solved in this era, and when it's solved, we see AI for what it really is. AI does not have deep sense of Truth, and this limitation, in my opinion, does not go away. It repeats what is already done, bringing the logic to it's end. Here, humans are definitely needed as they create the database of actions, works and ideas, and they verify it or find bugs in the execution of this data. AI might not comply with GPL licence as it uses it's code freely, and your work, even physical work, could be copied and pirated. We need people to get money for original work and quality replication of work, as this might be the only work left very soon. When people are not working and generating the dataset, AI will soon die out and become insane, whereas when people are generating it's data, it won't need these people directly. So this is very complex question, where the money comes from, and how to decide, who to pay, and how to create laws, which make the people paid, who generate data, based on the quality and amount of data. For working AI, some 100 000 examples of work has to be done. When it has such amount of decent work examples, it will do the work. Then, it does not need people. As soon as it gets old, it starts to go insane and it complies less with reality - I think this is a permanent thing with AI; my basis is that I have worked a lot in the past to create an AI theory, and it's simply unsolvable for me, how it could directly see Truth or make a sane decision, which does not become an algorithmic repetition of something. I think maybe someday they solve it, but today, humans are the direct source of Truth, of the correct intuition about mindful acts, and how they comply with the changing needs of Nature and with the potential of development, which always needs something new. With this, maybe the work of many people could be useful. People as they are today, in case they won't change, would mostly go extinct. The routine work, 8-hours days and repetition of studied patterns without deep senses is mostly unnecessary - there is not much of this work in AI era. As computers develop, we should talk about developing humans. Enlightenment, unlimited potential, better use of will and intuition - this is all the work we have done and when I personally started with this, I really thought that in AI era, era of advanced machines, humans need an evolution leap. Humans cannot evolve without taking the full advantage of the machine, but they need to find parts of work, which cannot be repeated with sole machine. They also need to work in nature and do natural, healthy work, because this keeps the connection with reality for themselves, so we also need to value this work. It's also done with soul and love. In AI era, humans, who coexist with evolved machine, will evolve as well. Our senses change, we feel the surroundings and it's challenges differently, so we become different creatures. We also need to keep the evolutionary abilities we had before, by keeping the contact with nature. As human is intelligent and can evolve without gene mutations a lot, it's like a creative evolution - animals would need gene mutations to change their habits, humans can do this evolution somewhat without -, we need to change. So the next thing is to create a structure of psychology, sociality, habits and traditions of humans, which would make humans evolve as much as machines have done. This is a very big thing to "socially engineer" a new human, who is useful and needed in new society, where AI will work; this is the question, how to get something from all the humans, which are the jobs not endangered by extinction etc. Law of Evolution is - when we don't need all those humans any more, for real, whatever they do and whatever their ethics, and however others avoid killing them, they somehow go extinct; feeling of not being needed is a very strong motive to do suicide, and if you cannot convince a person that they are needed, they lose many healthy habits and start to die; they lose the healthy amount of self-love. This is by evolution. So the very great depression might come of many unneeded people, and extreme poverty might start - we need to cure this depression and find out, how the people are needed, before the AI and robots go into the masses and start "taking the jobs away".

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/07/drinking-coffee-may-reduce-risk-of-suicide-by-50/ «Drinking several cups of coffee daily appears to reduce the risk of suicide in men and women by about 50 percent» https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/decades-of-research-shows-coffee-makes-you-healthier-happier-but-if-you-want-to-boost-your-energy-level-memory-theres-a-7-day-catch.html «Coffee can reduce your risk of cancer up to 20 percent, your risk of type 2 diabetes by 30 percent, and your risk of Parkinson's disease by 30 percent. A study published in Circulation found that coffee can reduce the risk of stroke by 20 percent. A study of over 260,000 people conducted by the NIH found that people who drank four or more cups of coffee a day were nearly 10 percent less likely to become depressed than those who drank none.»

This isn't for any particular reason other than to talk for the sake of talking or healing it. It's been a rough week. Advice is welcome, skip to the end questions if you are low on time. Since my brother has been going through a rough spot. I've felt the same pull on me a lot recently, and ghosted things again, only for a week. I don't have much guilt or shame for ghosting in me anymore, so I don't need to hide from that in the pattern itself. I also have no partner that I am skipping out on that needs me, so there is no painful consequence. My brother is still an opiate addict at 40, and he started before he was an adult. My 70-year-old+ mother still finances his addiction, so he doesn't kill himself. It's about as toxic a relationship as you'd imagine. She drives him to get his drugs and gives him the money. He had been working for a good long while but recently lost his job, and his girlfriend, so she's paying for all of it now not just petrol and the extra he'd usually need to get by. My father is a broken man, he's less angry now than he was most of the time but he lives in a pit of despair (mostly self-created). As a kid, we used to argue every day and then I would get a physical punishment about once a week, hand, cane, or belt. So my abuse was never the unpredictable rage others experienced, for me it was routine, and for years I could think of it as normal. It was like being raised by an angry, narcissistic 6-year-old who did nothing but get into shouting matches over small things. Such as the TV control being in the wrong, spot, the door being open, you saying the wrong word, or leaving a cup on the kitchen sink. Just ridiculous things. I remember watching Bender in the breakfast club say this is what happens to him when you spill paint, and I thought well, no to me that happens when you leave the door open. I learned to shout back at first, and that led to the physical abuse, honestly, though the enraged daily shouting was far worse. At 6 I was repeating to him what he was saying to me, that's the earliest I remember the volatile arguments, I mean, a full-blown temper over any small detail like spelling mistakes at primary school, never a simple disagreement. That was the hardest bit of deconditioning I had to do: not taking every small thing like it was the end of the world or a threat I was about to be hit for. Why do I say this? Well, I find it good to write these things out. Especially when life is tough and maybe someone has an insight I haven't thought of. It also explains my brother's initial choice to escape into drugs and my ghosting pattern. If I am not in life, I am not affected as much, computers were always somewhere that was certain and predictable. This escapism was why I loved fantasy time as a kid and eventually computer games. I assume my brothers escapism was similar. Over the many years, I've/we've tried all the things I know in relation to my brother. Love, sympathy, acceptance, denial, anger, pretending, getting him in rehab (expensive) and even using the police. We've experienced everything you imagine from an addict also. My dad and I don't often talk, as you can imagine, but he did say something today. He was talking about suicide and the helplessness he feels, I told him he doesn't see my brother; he sees the addict, and he replied that he'd never seen my brother, only as a kid, because he'd always been on some kind of drug. I realized that he was right. At what point is the person just the person? If that's what they've been all their life, that's what they are. So I realized in my head that, at this late date, I'd still be excusing it all somehow. My brother is and will always be an addict, while my mother is alive, until she or he dies. ^ 1) How would you deal with a ghosting pattern if you found yourself in one often and were tempted to do so? 2) What would you personally do regarding the family situation, bearing in mind that it's been almost 30 years? Also, I am broke and trying to restart a career, so large expenses are out of the question. *Go easy on my mother's codependence also, it's understandable given the environment. I don't excuse her enabling, and believe me I've talked at length with her but I do understand why it happened.