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Jesus does not “fix” challanges. Through only Jesus I can be purified. He died on the cross to save me, you and all of humanity. He transforms me in an unbelievable way. I was able to quit most of my bad habits since I have been touched by him. Moreover, he completely ended my nonduality and meditation addiction. But back then I was not aware that those could be addictive...

I had been what you would call “Enlightened to nonduality” and I reversed everything back. Now you judge.

This is a question directed specifically at @Leo Gura, but I would love to hear everyone's view on this issue. Does the Spiral Dynamics theory imply that one can enter the domain of Spirituality / Deep Metaphysics more easily if he has first entered stage Turquoise? To clarify the question a bit: Would it be easier to embody Enlightenment / Absolute Infinity if one has already reached Turquoise as opposed to someone who is at stage Red or Blue or Orange, for example. I ask this because of 2 things: I gather that Turquoise has values such as Consciousness, Elevating mankind’s consciousness, Truth, Deep metaphysical insight, Wisdom, the wisdom of nature, Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality, God, divinity, Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis, Integrating all religions & science, etc. These values almost completely point to Absolute Infinity. Also the examples you gave about Turquoise individuals seem pretty enlightened to me. Does this mean that for any spiritual pursuits to be effective one must first reach Turquoise. On one of the mega-threads about SD you mentioned that the Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, etc., weren't at Turquoise. How then did they embody AI / God if there was almost certainly no such thing as Green or Yellow or Turquoise for that matter? You say that Red and Blue were the dominant stages of the time. Perhaps their approach to Spirituality was a brute-force one where they say, "Fuck it!" to the stages and attack the beast head on! Assuming this is what they did, what approach do you recommend to newbies in this work - gradual or brute -force? I guess my question in a nutshell is: What's the relation between Turquoise and full-blown Enlightenment?

Spiral dynamics is a tool for advancement on the Mind watch out! Nonduality rises after one integrates all. But is not accurate. The tool is very good for the right side of the matter. To tap into the middle side of the matter, there is no more matter.

@Shin I would not introduce words like "Spirituality" or "Nonduality" or "The Path". They just become a virus of the ego. I would start with the simple question of "what do you want?". If he/she doesn't want anything there is no need for teaching in the first place. And if he/she wants something, then the teaching and style of teaching is relative to that wanting something.

I am not here to argue with those who want to stay asleep and ignorant, but to show the way of Jesus to those, who are close to waking up and want to end the nonduality delusion!

I don’t want to evolve if that means life is going to get boring and pointless. Tier 2 seems like it’s just washing away the colors of life. Especially with nonduality.

If they are paying your bills, it might be wise to just accept some of those simple compromises like not buying pork or alcohol. Once you are paying for yourself you can buy whatever you want. Freedom has to be earned. You could also tell them that you are pursuing spirituality/Allah directly, in accordance with nondual Sufi ways and the spirit of Islam (surrender to Allah). Muhammad was into meditation. If you are pursuing nonduality, the irony is that you are more Muslim than they are. But don't tell them that

Anything you posit that created reality must, by definition, be part of reality, becauase reality is everything that is. Reality could only have created itself because there is nothing outside reality. There is nothing outside infinity. Inside/outside is a relative duality. Infinity does not have an inside and outside. It just is. You CAN have it both ways! That's the nature of Infinity and nonduality! It is includes all opposites.

Coral will remain unattainable, an implication of, the “holy grail” - a punchline. If I am nondual, and you are nondual, what distinctions remain for words which unify? None. What words do you say to yourself, in samadhi? None. What words do you say to yourself in appearance of physicality? None. What would there be to say? Nothing. What reason to say it? None. Paradoxically, spiral dynamics doesn’t actually exist at the “coral level”. It’s a thought, in appearance, on appearance. SD’s strengthens perception of duality via distinctions, until it collapses on itself in nonduality. Coral is the innocence of the dreamer, the colorless rainbow, a promise, Horton.

@okulele You must realize that meditation is nothing more than self hypnosis. You are emptying your rational mind allowing your subconscious to be conditioned and programmed by whatever is influencing you in that moment. Usually here people self hypnotize themselves into nonduality ilussion.

@Nahm Can you please be more specific here? Do I need to learn advanced maths like Godel's incompleteness theorem and quatum physics to get to nonduality? Sounds to me we're just playing word game

Spiral Dynamics is not a measure of nonduality. It is a measure of cognitive, emotional, moral, and cultural development. This a very important distinction. You can be fully nondual but still at a low level of development. Development is distinct from states of consciousness and you are not going to attain a high level of development merely by sitting on a cushion.

I guess so. But im the guy that don’t want to go cliff diving in the first place. I can see the point of green and maybe yellow. But how can you be happy with nonduality if there is nothing to be happy about? And if you truly destroyed your ego wouldnt you just starve to death or forget to breathe? I don’t think you can ever destroy the ego without having an actual death. Just make it smaller. But even if it was smaller, wouldnt there just be less of a difference between happy and sad because the ego is smaller? It’s just neutral. At least in turquoise. I don’t think looking at an empty white wall is more fun than looking at art or a movie.

@Baotrader About the juice, I meant, if nonduality is accurate, then you are Einstein & Buddha, and “Einstein & Buddha” reveal something to you, about you, from you. I’d say the point is the teacher’s experience, and the student’s experience, and the experience of each allowing the experience of the other, unless they’re enlightened, then, like you pointed out, there’s no point, except the experience. I hear what you’re saying about Leo & Sadhguru, but in the same vein, what does that say to you, in your awakening? Maybe upon your enlightenment, you’ll be the one to resolve the hard problem of science, bridging the quantum & atomic. That’d be really cool I assume. Maybe Leo’s already done that though. It’s inherently confusing, the matter of what another person would do in enlightenment. Lol.

joy of life begins in nonduality your ego is fooling "you"...

Another thing: This sentence shows that you experience duality between you and the outside world. Sure you might have self-realized and achieved non-duality within, but enlightenment doesn't end there. Later comes god consciousness, and after that unity consciousness where you will truly realize nonduality between the inner and the outer. Remember what christ said: When you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner, there you shall find me.

What I'm about to describe is NOT: - The experience of music aided by drugs - The feeling of listening to your favorite song - Related to meditation music, meditating with music, etc. - Being affected by lyrics - Dancing / Being at a concert Sometimes I get this jolt of higher consciousness / (nonduality?) when I'm spending time with friends I'm very close to while listening to music. This can happen when I'm alone as well but it's more common with other people. We'll go for walks in the forest, go on long drives, spend time at the beach, take pictures, have dinner, make music together, and have deep conversations. Usually while we're hanging out we're listening to a certain hip hop / rock / electronic album or sometimes just pop music from different eras. There are certain moments during these hangouts / trips that the weather is just perfect, the vibe is just perfect, the music hits perfectly and for a brief moment all pain fades, I'm one with the universe so to speak. Just being, content with existence, relishing the moment, seeing the beauty in everything and where whats in my imagination and whats in my perceptions lose boundaries. I know this is more than just a good feeling in the music, because it doesn't happen all the time when listening to these songs. But in the right environment, with the right mindset, the music is the thing that just pushes me over the edge into this euphoric state. I believe the music is part of it, but its moreso that the music opens me up emotionally so to speak and in that moment I am able to fully embrace being. It's in these moments where I think I understand what Leo often talks about as nothingness and infinity, it's like an infinite nothingness, and all I can respond with is awe. I sometimes wonder if that is what enlightenment is, to experience this feeling nonstop, if so that would be a bit overwhelming! I wanted to get your opinions on this, and any other music that opens you up to experiencing being in this way. If you're curious, here's a few "magic moments" in songs where my friends and I have experienced this feeling.

@Mezanti Just need to get from the thinking ( “knowing” and therefore forgetting) to Being (no thinking, so no “forgetting” = Knowing) No self, “no me” realization is still dual, and not Self realization. No self can be communicated to an a-priori ‘other’ by referring to all that is (neti neti), through the a priori “ I “ , referencing everything or anything, and then stating I am not that / I am not that, creating the duality of Self and not that... “no me” (all that is self too, in appearance). Still, Self, is Being, no self experience. When nonduality is a state, equated with a state through contrast with other “more normal states” the Self is what is nondual, not the expereince, nor the state, nor the perception, nor the experience of the state - the Self is all of those, because it’s none of those. So the Self is prior to the thought or perspective, even if the perspective is nonduality, hence the confusion in No self / Self. In silent samadhi, Self. The noteworthy factor is before / after the absolute madness of identity / no identity, vs no before & after, and therefore, no “states”. Or rather, just skip all that, and Be, yourself. Look at what is denied specifically when implying no self, or ask, which “part of self” am I seeing as “not self”? It’s body related: food, self reliance, addiction, abuse, neglect, intimidation, self esteem, and this is precisely why it is missed with thinking, leaving realization at the thinking level. No self is still “outward”, fragmentation, but unknown. I’d loosy say no self is maximum conceptual, but not yet actual realization. If that is word salad, good, it should be really, do this... Sit down and take deep slow breaths, let every muscle go, sink into relaxation. Hold the thought, of the closest person to you dying, today, unexpectedly. Now, In thought ask the question, “do people die”? Intensify this thought by repeating it over and over, imagine it is your reality, today, right now - and you have no choice but to accept it and deal, until you know the truth of this matter. Now, free the question, by relaxing entirely, and allow the question to float up & out through the head, let that thought go, free forever. Gone. But don’t allow awareness to go up, into the thinking. Let the question float up & out.... But send awareness down, into the body, then deeper into the inner body. Now FEEL the answer / sensation, deeply feel it. No fear, accept it deeply, directly. Take note of that sensation. Now hold the thought / question of the next person closest to you dying today, unexpectedly. Focus on the thinking / question ‘in the head’. Now let the thought / question float out through the head, - but direct awareness downward, into the body, then into the inner body. Feel the sensation fully. Now do this again with the next closest person to you. Feel the inner, inner, sensation deeply. Again, Take note of that sensation deep inside of the body. Now think about the person closest to you again, and realize they are not dying today. Intensely focus on how much love you have for them, and focus on the question “what am I”, do not go “up” from the eyes into thinking, focus on the question in thought, then release it, let that thought float up and out of the head, go “down” from the eyes, direct awareness downward, into the inner body, be attentive to the physical sensation of the BOND of love, the actuality of the inner body sensation. Now think of the next closest person to you, and think about how they are not dying today, think about how much love you have for them, and think the question “what am I”, focus intensely on that question in thought, then release that thought, allow it to float up and out, and direct awareness downward into the body, then into the inner body. Take note of that inner sensation. Recall the inner sensation of the death contemplation. See the similarity in the inner body sensation. They are THE SAME. The appearing difference, is only ‘there’, in thought, not in sensation. In the sensation there is no difference between what you are, death, and love. This is a peek into direct experience of the difference between no-self (conceptual w or w/o sensation realization), and Self / Being (no longer conceptual, only sensation/actuality - Being - without fragmentation, or unaccepted facets of self, other, and or circumstances - all Self) Thought no longer “tricks” Being, it is laughable, I hope you experience the shocking humor that arises. It is funny, how you convinced yourself of death, is it not? You never “went” anywhere, or “became” anything. You been right here the whole time. .

Nonduality is the unlocking the capacity of the body/mind beyond the only 2 chakras that the majority of people use. After one is aware of the energetic system in the body, synchronizes it, then nonduality arises. After unlocking the body and focussing only on the upper side, language, light, good, right etc. Give sufficient time and one gets stuck again in duality. The same language we use every day to communicate is built in such a manner to make one stay only in duality if one follows the meanings of the dictionary and mainstream schools.

@Leo Gura I actually think yoga as a whole system with all it's different facets and schools of it is what makes it such a genius way of going about nonduality. I mean from body practices, visualization, meditation and all the different of it to paths of learning, selfless service, action, etc. it's such a broad path that encompasses all these different ways of cultivating spiritual development it's crazy in it's versatility.

Good tips and advice on using psychedelics for greater creativity, creative ideas, getting in deep touch with intuition, etc.? Recommendations of psychedelics for this purpose that isn’t nonduality related?

Yes, totally understandable. This is all a story. Awakening came from roughly 20 years of meditation, studying self, sciences, qm’s, religions, epistemology, philosophy, then psychedelics, then “I heard of” Leo / actualized. The order you put the events is your version, your interpretation/assumption/projection. The bottom line is, only you can realize the paradigm of science and materialism, there is much more, and it will only serve you in the development of your website, and ultimately, helping others to awaken. We are together in that, no doubt❤️??. If you don’t value my opinion, stop inquiring into it. No worries here. I wish you only the best. Any direct answers in brevity... What are my “beliefs” you speak of, the ones “defended”, the “cornered” situation? What is it you think “I” am afraid / scared of? How do you see I am disconnected from reality? (Please be specific, brevity) I read your website, before the first comment. Why do you keep referring to it? Just say what you want to say. Also, what do you mean when you say “the nonduality experience is real”? And why do you keeping wanting evidence, when you are already it ?

I really wouldn’t do this. Now... like I said, this isn’t a post about nonduality. However, I really wouldn’t follow up on that urge to do 5-MeO-DMT as your first trip. I think what a lot of us aren’t taking from Leo is how profound a substance like this can be. I personally am not in a stable place in my life or a place if independence even (I still live at home) so just that combination right there can cause so much of a catastrophic trip if I took 5-MeO that it wouldn’t be worth it. I think 5-MeO is a substance you have to be at a certain level of development to do where you’re both willing to “give it all up” but at a place where that drive is tampered or tarnished with any kind of drive like escapism or serious depression, etc. So really check yourself on that. Idk you so I can’t say. That said, I do know where you’re coming from with wanting to dive all the way in and all that stuff. I personally would rather do something like LSD and maybe even just microdose to help me be more in touch with my intuition, creativity, etc. to help me with constructing my life purpose and getting me to work on my business to get me out of the living situation I’m in and also help me intuit what I want to do with my life from here as I’m at a real crossroads right now. Hope this helps

All thought needs is a thinker/knower/self — even if the thinker is thinking/knowing/theorizing about nonduality.