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I chant a mantra for about 5 minutes in the morning. You don't need to do self-inquiry any more when you know who you are. Do you need to keep asking yourself your own name? The conventional explanation is that someone like him -- if he is awakened -- would have done all that in previous lives.

Does this apply to an awakened being as well (even though they found what they were searching for)? Is self-inquiry meaningless to them at that stage?

@tedens If I may weigh in, I'd raise two points: 1. In an absolute sense, we are already enlightened - since we are part of Infinite Consciousness, which by definition is fully awakened, then it means that we, too, are by definition fully awakened. 2. On a more relative sense, I'd say it's possible for humanity to develop genetically and socially so that, in a few thousand year's time, we create a society that allows everybody to reach full awakening and embody it within just a few years, although being born enlightened might be a stretch. I get the impression that this may be the situation that some current extra-terrestrial civilisations are at, having gone through similar struggles of collective evolution that we are going through now. This is just my impression though, and it may be inaccurate.

@AlldayLoop Yes, what is it "love of" the answer is consciousness and god. a fully awakened being would resort to less harmful methods, such as destroying your ego. But really, they could be disconnected in no-self enlightenment and therefore it's not even them doing it the killing. Its just the human which has remnants of ego, left in the enlightened being.

As Leo has pointed out before, even someone who awakens to their true nature can still go out and kill others and do other “horrible” things. Are these awakened beings doing this out of pure Love too?

Why is that people like Sadhguru keep making claims about how it is possible to do epic changes like change your genes, cure any disease, manifest bodies of goddesses, go into different dimensions but at the end of the day it's just talking. The same guru that has the power to change their genes needs donations to save the forests, the same guru that can cure any disease is balding or aging, the same guru who can manifest goddesses can't manifest the trees he's looking to plant. Where are the buddhas with the holographic dharmakaya, where are the immortal taoists flying in the clouds, where are the awakened ones who are omniscient and omnipotent and can give the answer to any questions there is and solve any problem there is? Where are the vivekanandas who can read a 700 page book in an instant by just touching it? I keep hearing about these magical stories but they aren't to be seen anywhere. It seems like it's just a scam and even though spirituality tells us we are infinite beings and gods and bla bla bla, my experience shows that we are incredibly limited beings to the point that it's actually doubtful if we can even do anything. It looks like we are walking corpses who are the slaves of this reality and the only thing we can do is to rest in awareness as a sort of sanctuary while life carves us and devours us and then kills us in some brutal way. Where are these magics I am asking? Is there anyone at all that can prove what they are talking is true? Is there anyone who can walk the walk? I'm doubtful... I will be happy to accept once I see it or experience it but no one is there to show me.

How about other humans that don’t become enlightened? Does it really matter in the end if they discover their true nature or not? If it doesn’t, then why help others become conscious of this Truth? Why do awakened masters or even yourself feel a need to help others awaken as well? By the way, I’m not saying that as an insult to what you are doing. I’m actually really thankful that you’re here.

You just have to be careful with how terms can have different meanings. "Self-consciousness" is a mainstream cultural term, not a technical term from spirituality. Mainstream culture does not understand what the self or what consciousness is. So understanding that, when ordinary folks say "self-conscious" they are not talking about spirituality or awakening or Truth. They simply mean: a neurotic sense of social anxiety and self-judgment. Don't be fooled by the surface similarity of terms. Just because two words look the same or sound the same does not mean they have the same meaning. Of course the problem is not self-consciousness per se, the problem is an obsessive anxiety over one's self-image in social situations. In a sense, the awakened person is not self-conscious when he acts. He's not thinking of his self-image, he acts spontaneously. The self-conscious person self-obsesses and is stuck in monkey mind.

Regarding psychedelics, there's a lot of controversy around them to say the least, with critiques ranging from various generally well-respected gurus dismissing them as experiences or inducing states that may seem similar to but which ultimately aren't enlightenment to even critiques from experienced psychedelic users, many of whom are in stabilized nondual states, who also dismiss them in favor of a 'sober path'. The obvious response is to go by direct experience rather than accepting any authority, whether they're enlightened or not. However, this advice alone may not make everything so clear cut to seekers. After all, there are people who contemplate, do various forms of consciousness work, yet they still draw different conclusions from others after having taken psychedelics. That being said, I think it would be great for you to discuss the various pitfalls in using psychedelics and explore why people arrive at different conclusions, looking at the epistemic nuances and practical factors. On a similar note, it'd be nice to see some discussion on the wide-ranging social implications of mystical experience and higher states becoming more normalized. While a more highly conscious and awake population doesn't suffer as much from certain issues, new complications arise with awakening and on a large scale especially things can become complex and hard to navigate. For instance, how people should deal with: -Sectarian and personal bias between awakened people and exploring what are important differences and nuances in traditions, approaches, and conclusions vs. cultural baggage,dogma, etc. and being able to learn and benefit from the many current and future sources with both a lot of beneficial wisdom and various limitations and flaws. -Future science and various academic fields becoming more open to account for metaphysics, paranormal, etc., and the general problem of people needing to communicate and arrive at consensus models of reality. Being able to account for insights from various reports of direct experiences of the nature of reality is much more tricky business than conducting an experiment to verify that the Earth is spherical. Some more examples under the same topic/principle (it's driving the same point home, but I think perhaps the examples might help illustrate.) Ex 1: As people develop spiritually, it is somewhat common to have a much broader field of perception, however, the way this develops varies between different people in drastically different ways. It can be difficult considering the various perspectives they bring to the table, especially since you can often learn things from them but can't get in their head and share their exact experience. What's your take on how people should discuss the huge variety of spiritual experiences and take them into consideration when it's not necessarily possible for every individual or even most individuals to verify all of these things in their own direct experience. Some people seem to just be wired in different ways and have legitimate experiences of different things that other people can't-- being understanding of them, their experience, and what to make of it can be quite difficult. Ex 2: When spiritual growth is considered a universal and essential part of human development rather than just something people like do for comfort, fun, or whatever purpose, the topic of mental health, sanity, etc. becomes drastically more complicated. What kind of infrastructure should be established and what changes in society's approach to mental health should take place to accommodate for this? Someone going through a difficult stretch in their path can simultaneously be growing a ton while seeming horribly unstable, nonsensical, and all-around poorly functioning. I ended up getting more into the large scale/macro-issues/ societal stuff, which I'm not quite sure is on topic.

@winterknight Is it possible for someone to fully awaken to their true nature (enlightenement), but still have suicidal thoughts — or even to commit/die by suicide? I pondered upon this question several times because I assume that serious mental health conditions are similar to that of diseases like cancer or diabetes, in that one cannot simply get rid of that human condition simply by just knowing their true nature. Or is it still plausible to say that once one is awakened, the thought or action of suicide becomes completely irrelevant to them and it would be impossible to happen?

I want your help. As I do research for my book, I want to gather a potent collection of objections to spirituality, nonduality, enlightenment, mysticism, the paranormal, etc. I want legit objections that newbies and skeptics commonly have in this work. Here are some examples to get you thinking along the right lines: How can you trust that a subjective experience reveals Absolute Truth? Isn't awakening just a subjective brain phenomenon? Could awakening be a self-deception? Is it possible that there's something beyond Absolute Truth which you could be missing? How is awakening different from solipsism? How is awakening different from nihilism? How is awakening different from pantheism? Why do awakened people still commit evil acts like sexually abusing their students? If God is real, why would God hide himself from people? Why isn't God evident to all people in the same way that the sun is? If awakening is true, why do all the religions disagree so much? You say reality is infinite, but doesn't quantum mechanics say there is a fundamental lower limit to space known as the Planck Length? Why is love, beauty, goodness, and intelligence a fundamental property of the universe but hate, ugliness, evil, and stupidity are not? If God is so loving why would he allow so much evil in the world like rape, torture, genocide, war, etc? How can you trust psychedelics reveal valid truths and aren't just subjective hallucinations? If science is as wrong about the fundamental metaphysics of reality as you say, how come it's so successful at manipulating reality? Why couldn't there be more than one God? If physical reality is imaginary, why can't I imagine a million dollars into my bank account or imagine away a physical illness? If what you say is true, how come serious scientists aren't talking about it? Where is your Nobel prize? I want stuff like that in this thread. Note: I won't necessarily resolve your objections in this thread. I'm simply trying to gather a solid list of them. Please formulate your question/objection clearly and concisely.

Hello everyone. This topic is not posted for the simple reason that I miss my childhood and want to watch Disney films. I recently came across this song: So I am already not in the greatest state (sad moods and stuff) and I am really loving this song and other, funky songs? I am planning to do psychedelics soon and was wondering what experienced psychonauts think of using psychedelics on music like this. A mixture of the famous Alice in Wonderland and instrumental sounds. In general, watching Alice in Wonderland while tripping on LSD would already be a big journey right? Again I am planning to do this during my FIRST trip, considering I don’t think I will get enlightened or awakened at all.

This is utter bs Dépend how you practice a lot & No practice = nothing Both needed. If you got an awakened master it goes quick

Careful. I know extroverts who are awakened and do spiritual practice. And obviously many extroverts make a killing in creativity, business, art. There's more than one way to skin a cat. One should only be a lone wolf if that's what one is called to do. It's not necessary for success. With that said, personally I love lone wolfing life. But that's just me. People here must find whatever kind of lifestyle resonates with them. This is a highly individualized thing.

@cetus56 you're clearly the least awakened moderator on this forum. You don't recognise an enlightened master when you see him? ???

@Gili Trawangan yes there are still traps after enlightenment. One must continually deepen their enlightenment. The awakened must never stray from spirituality. For it is within spirituality that the enlightened one can find their higher life purpose - or divine purpose. Not the individual egoic life purpose but the collective one. This is fueled from a love for reality, and the burning desire to advance mankind and the entire universe forward. To elevate the collective consciousness of all of mankind. This could be through teaching, creating, politics, etc. That is the highest purpose of the enlightened - and the highest trap is yielding to the relentless pull of the ego away from this goal.

@Shaun When I was about your age I did see several therapists. The therapy didn’t help in this case, no transference, more offerings of Amway schemes , but the choosing to stop blaming other people, videos, what have you, was a major paradigm shift, resulting in a major “breakdown” / “transference to Nothing”, in which I lost my name. In a nutshell, it was a big step closer to what I needed, along with other efforts in accountability for my own well being, resulting in realizing I needed to chose radical responsibility, over complaining. Best I can remember (24 yrs ago) I don’t think I was aware I was almost constantly blaming & complaining, thus creating the very perspective in which I was experiencing the suffering, just like you are creating now. The perspective creates the suffering, the suffering is fear, the fear prevents the inspect of the creation of the perspectives. A circle I would not wish upon anyone. There’s a paradox which is tough to swallow, but when the fear & protective mechanics of survival are inspected and addressed properly by inspecting the creation of your perspectives, the paradox dissolves revealing the love it was all along. If you had awareness you are creating your reality, you would of course not relive the past, nor use it to filter your creating of now. Notice no one awakened plays the victim role, and try to make that connection. In a hindsight clarity, you’d be well aware you were deeply asleep, and were not aware you were creating. Notice - you can not rationally deny, all of your choices have led you to this exact here now. You can not both be in a thought story of self / past, and present here now creating. Because in actuality, there is no you in the thought story’s (though it is insanely convincing there is) there is no you to resolve anything in such thought stories. The opportunity for resolution is always present, you must not continue running from it. Here now presence is the “resolution”, to leaving to the past or future via thought stories. Face it, see what it is, now. You are one, not both of those “you’s”, if you will. Create the reality where you let the past go, actually, then you see, then your trajectory of realization is pointed to Wholeness. You are the understanding, that’s why it feels so good and releases falsities. The understanding of the fragmentation you’re creating is itself the recognition of you true being as what was formerly referred to as the fragmentation. It is worthwhile. Taking all the help and resources available to you is the key. Humbleness, humility and peace - “more of true being / self” - are always found within this, wether the methods per se “helped” or not, it’s about you seizing this life of yours. It’s about the choice to move forward in admitting the fear. Anything inspected amply dissolves, fear is not exceptional at all - you’re creating it. You can stop in any given moment, though I acknowledge it is easier said than done, it is away’s nonetheless the truth. Trauma creates a greater void, literally, between thought story you, and The Light You (pls forgive the linguistic of separation). You can forget who you really are, but you can not actually not be who you really are. To pretend you can, is suffering. The you that you think you are has no creating power at all. It a thought, just like the thought ‘toaster’. It’s not a toaster, it’s a thought. Actual you is present indeed, right now, you are just aware of this. As such, you are The Creator, and you can forget this, but you can not not be The Creator in actuality. The painful, painful, painful! Paradox you’re choosing to dance with is the denial you are experience exactly how you’re choosing to perceive. This literally expands void, as all is ineffable truly, - imagaination, Mind, etc - your choices of self denial, God denial, your whole solipsism theory, the rejection of assistance and love from everyone, etc - you are painstakingly expanding the void. The only thing that will enable you to feel better, is to lesson your void, to admit for yourself you are indeed choosing your perspectives, and to begin choosing perspective which are authentic - aligned with your sensation, rather than against them. The practice is so fundemental and apparent, you’re missing it. Simply feel as you say something negative about yourself, and something positive. Notice how it feels, and listen to the sensation. Allow all of life to be so simple, cry out, punching bag out, run out, scream out - whatever our style - but let it out with certainty. Where you’re at is too much for one to bare and resolve alone, because your primary paint of your suffering is the topic of Alone. It’s toooo much. People can be helpful too you know. Perhaps that’s what you stand to discover so innocently. But we’re all here, and you are not alone. You are choosing the perspectives of this, because it seems the hurt is too much to revisit. That is a misunderstanding, which you could do without recreating anymore. If you’d like to chat lightly, nothing heavy introspective, just an experience of a different perspective, I’m up for that today. If not, at least consider why you would not accept the ear of one who lived through the hell. I created it too. I didn’t know either. Either way, thank you very much. I am most appreciative of you.

Jeffery Martin says it's about 1%, maybe he is wrong. Pretty much no awakened people are talking about what you are talking about so yes. Maybe if you want to access the deepest experiences and understanding you need to alter your neurotransmitters. However, this is one aspect of spirituality and most people doing spiritual work are into enlightenment AKA having persistent shifts that stick with you and will reduce your suffering even when you stop meditating. I know how amazing psychedelics and their afterglow feels but it always ends and we're back to the normal state of suffering and dissatisfaction. You just seem to have unusual goals as a spiritual seeker. I don't think there is the one right way to be spiritually, we can do whatever we want.

Hearing constant news of people and even in music of the change of era that is coming, and more and more spiritual people and Spiritual music talk about a gradual awakening of more and more people and finally all of humans living in an absolute awakened state. The change of era is supposed to be going from era of pisces (fish) to the era of acuarius. And this is supposed to bring immense developments in medicine and also worldwide peace. Moreover I hear about talks of an ascenscion from 3d to 5d. Basically apart from these assumptions is life under a divine plan or is it happening totally randomly? If there is a plan who would chime in on these ideas above mentioned?

That is pretty funny cuz i also had an awakening experience to the no-self or in other words the nothingness doing just 2 days self-inquiry. If i manged to surrender to the nothingness i might became awakened.

@Gili Trawangan In Adyashanti's "Enlightenment Unfolding" he discusses post awakening pitfalls. It's an excellent guide for the awakened seeker.

I don't know how to explain this, but... why are you guys comparing yourself to the Prophets? Jesus and Buddha etc. All based on pure assumptions.. Here's what they've got to say; 14:11 Their messengers said to them: "True, we are human like yourselves, but Allah does grant His grace to such of his servants as He pleases. It is not for us to bring you an authority except as Allah permits. And on Allah let all men of faith put their trust." They are the chosen ones. The prophets and the messengers. If I'm not mistaken, there's over 100 000 prophets (in the past). Apart from these, there are many saints. Some we know of, some we don't. There are many scriptures, scrolls and Tablets. But the last one is the Quran. It is full circle. My guru says, their levels, cannot be compared to those that came after them. It is not the same. ....... Upon reading this thread, what comes to mind is, what is the purpose of enlightenment to everyone? Why do people wanna get awakened/enlightened? What's the roots?

Atoms and matter could have the potential to rewire 'thinking matter' is a possibilité It could be that matter itself "think". There is no problem with thinking. The problem is a wrong use of thinking. As everything expand. Could be that our mind itself work like a Galaxy expanding itself Thinking alone can be more strong than psychedelics. I awakened through asking god to give me truth or kill me. I was not sayin it like I like cake. I got energic rush and a crisis for week. Then I stop to overthink because it was just obvious then than most of our discussion are so distant and relative. I just stopped After realizing some new Logic way to perceive reality. Good thoughts are gods. People who still believe we are méta in sayin we are god. You Lost in your own concept. We are nature if you prefer. And so whatever the force who created reality. This force is us. We are the création of god. But god is so god that you're him aswell. If thoughts was truly useless. Then you say that god made a misstake of them. Spiritual ego ain't real. I would tend to believe that there is 'no free will'. By law of physics. But as an human it almost cannot be explain. If you enlighten It's only by nature will. You're a spectator of reality and self. Movie and arts are gods facets. God is a vidéo game and a movie and you're the player walking on his own record. There is no outside reality outside your life expérience. We are all drifting and it doesn't matter to choose right or left. Because the ultimate choice of your mind. That's why a character in Batman choose to throw a coin for each décisions. But even this sort of action is a choice not relevant of your choice. You cannot beat your own mind codes. You can hack/understand yourself but each one his movie. You can maybe writte your futur. But all projection for a futur all this. Where does it Come ? Like if I wanted to be king. Why is this thought in me ? Why do I désire ? All thoughts of shaping reality. This so call'd free will. But all your désire are not yours. They are gods. Hence. You have free will from the perspective of the mind. But in depth nothing here is yours. Not even your ego. by others understanding of the dynamics of reality I m almost sure that all I m his a spectator in his tunnel universe. Meeting others Galaxy. Does Galaxy have free will/ free thought ? I think the answer give truth to 'what you are' But you can try to beat the wheel. Free thought or not. Both are 'delusion' depending : what you/I mean by delusion or the relative concept of free will that we all sort of believe in. I was litteraly asking what am I and what is this fuck ? ( Very intensively After hours of méditation and hard seccion of weed & thinking )

Spiritually gifted folk. You can meet them in various spiritual circles. Healers, psychics, masters, yogis, sages, prodigies, shamans, witches, channelers, saints, etc. It's a combination of factors: diligence, discipline, willpower, passion, focus ability, existential curiosity, openmindedness, baseline level of consciousness, appropriate personality type, and more. Notice, it's much easier to stick with a technique when is produces immediate significant results. Some people sit down to meditate and start having mystical experiences within days or weeks. This of course makes it much easier to stick with the habit compared to a person who meditates for 3 years and doesn't have a single mystical experience. I've met people who've sat down for one weekend, did 2 days of self-inquiry and awakened. That's totally unusual results. The average person can self-inquiry for 5 years and still not awaken. And it has to be this way. Otherwise half the people on the planet would be awake, but less than 0.0001% are. So you need some explanation for why that is. The explanation cannot just be that they're lazy or uninformed.

Of course you are welcome, there are not right from wrongs and ultimately non-duality is to simply show you who and what you are, that's when you have AWAKENED but you are still not Enlightened. You only become Enlightened when you remember how to walk and live the path you chose through duality/trinity. Most people think when they experience oneness they are automatically enlightened. No, This is incorrect sorry to say. The key is to master this so you can find the (balance-point) between non-dual and dual thus you live AS the Trinity. Many beings get caught up in the "non-dual state" instead of remembering why they chose to be dual in the first place, when they remember and walk the dual state with non-dual awareness, the trinity is expressed. That is when you truly become Enlightened, when you are fully immersed in duality yet simultaneously aware of oneness of all things. This is when you are truly alive, beauty is everpresent, divinity is everpresent. This is when you are god in human form, this is when you have become a True Enlightened Master. Excuse my way of verbal expression. I believe i could of expressed or written it better, i am sure someone can explain it to you in simpler detail and terms but as of right now this is how its all coming out so i hope it makes sense, at least in some way/shape/form. All the best