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Where your toughts appear that space you indentified as "me". When this is "center of selfishness" is gone you become this empty space where phenomena are rising including toughts. Utter peace but devoid of all human motivations you previously indentified. Enlightenment is psychological suicide in a sense.

I don't think we have free will. But people commit suicide. So God is killing itself? Hmm.

@Serotoninluv Doesn't this tell you that, perhaps, ego death is not a natural state? I've been to my doctor this morning. He phoned a suicide referral helpline who are supposed to be getting in touch with me at some point today. And he's given me some more tablets (yay).

Hi everyone i'm new. I am temporarily in the Buddhism monastery. It's like It was founded by a rich master. I come here to have a few insights about them. They are like a family monastery. People here are good human beings. There's no question about it. But they live a quite primitive lifestyle. For ex: spitting around ( including the master) . I can't blame them though because my country does not ban this act. I am from Vietnam. But I still have disdain for such acts. Their toilet and washing rooms are dirty and stingy but they don't allow me to wear shoes in those rooms. The shower in the male washing room is out of order so i can't wash my hair. A joint washing room that i almost could not find space to put my clothes. People are a little bit irresponsible in this case. They should have put their clothes in the washing machine when they are out. It's a little bit annoying. I feel like people here don't have any sense of hygienic standard at all. And they have me live in a room that only has a sleeping mat without a bed. The first day i could not sleep and almost wanted to leave but decided to carry on. My back still is not used to it yet . Interestingly I met a man whose left arm is severely wounded. His right hand is a bit wounded too. Later i founded his legs are wounded too. It became suspicious to me from the beginning that he did it himself. Since our ages are the same we talked and got along quite well. I asked him directly about his wounds and he admitted he did it himself in order to bleed to death. I asked him why and he said he's too tired of life and does not at all want to be part of the chain others have founded. He feels like he's a redundant person and not creating anything new for the world. I kinda understood what he meant. This man kinda wants to be an inventor or scientist who discovers something new but he's just not good enough. He tells me more about his personal life and my projection was confirmed. He's a kind and quite articulate man. I wanted to tell him that only 1 in a million can become a scientist or inventor or discover sth new. The rest just focuses on joining the already created working chain to make a living but decided to keep my mouth shut. His family has him in this monastery hoping he can decide his life ( continuing to live outside or become a Buddist). Honestly I think it's difficult for a man with his character to work as an employee in a company. He's not good salesman i am sure. If anyone tells me they want to commit suicide i will think they are weak souls but about this man i cannot. He's actually brave to cause such injuries for himself. Even his friend ( a martial artist said he would not have guts to). A few questions come to my mind: Should we have enough compassion to help someone die peacefully when they actually no longer want to live because for such people living longer just makes them suffer more. You have to be sentitive enough to see the suffering inside the man i met. He definitely tried but chose the wrong path to follow and he's just not good enough. About the monastery: It helps! Even after some uncomfortable things i still feel it helps. I am a bit fatter. I feel more energetic. People here are kindhearted but dogmatic. I will live here until April 22th or 23rd.

Taken from a website What Is Stoicism? A Definition & 9 Stoic Exercises To Get You Started For those of us who live our lives in the real world, there is one branch of philosophy created just for us: Stoicism. Get Your Free DAILY STOIC Starter Pack Get ItIncludes an introduction to Stoicism, best books to start with, Stoic exercises and much more! A brief synopsis and definition on this particular school of Hellenistic philosophy: Stoicism was founded in Athens by Zeno of Citium in the early 3rd century BC, but was famously practiced by the likes of Epictetus, Seneca and Marcus Aurelius. The philosophy asserts that virtue (such as wisdom) is happiness and judgment should be based on behavior, rather than words. That we don’t control and cannot rely on external events, only ourselves and our responses. Stoicism has just a few central teachings. It sets out to remind us of how unpredictable the world can be. How brief our moment of life is. How to be steadfast, and strong, and in control of yourself. And finally, that the source of our dissatisfaction lies in our impulsive dependency on our reflexive senses rather than logic. Stoicism doesn’t concern itself with complicated theories about the world, but with helping us overcome destructive emotions and act on what can be acted upon. It’s built for action, not endless debate. It had three principal leaders. Marcus Aurelius, the emperor of the Roman Empire, the most powerful man on earth, sat down each day to write himself notesabout restraint, compassion and humility. Epictetus endured the horrors of slavery to found his own school where he taught many of Rome’s greatest minds. Seneca, when Nero turned on him and demanded his suicide, could think only of comforting his wife and friends. But it is not only those three—Stoicism has been practiced by kings, presidents, artists, writers and entrepreneurs. Both historical and modern men illustrate Stoicism as a way of life. Prussian King, Frederick the Great, was said to ride with the works of the Stoics in his saddlebags because they could, in his words, “sustain you in misfortune”. Meanwhile, Montaigne, the politician and essayist, had a line from Epictetus carved into the beam above the study in which he spent most of his time. The founding fathers were also inspired by the philosophy. George Washington was introduced to Stoicism by his neighbors at age seventeen, and afterwards, put on a play about Cato to inspire his men in that dark winter at Valley Forge. Whereas Thomas Jefferson had a copy of Seneca on his nightstand when he died. The economist Adam Smith’s theories on the interconnectedness of the world—capitalism—were significantly influenced by the Stoicism that he studied as a schoolboy, under a teacher who had translated Marcus Aurelius’ works. The political thinker, John Stuart Mill, wrote of Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism in his famous treatise On Liberty, calling it “the highest ethical product of the ancient mind.” Stoicism differs from most existing schools in one important sense: its purpose is practical application. It is not a purely intellectual enterprise. It’s a tool that we can use to become better in our craft, better friends and better people. It’s easy to gloss over the fact that Marcus Aurelius was the Roman Emperor without truly absorbing the gravity of that position. Emperors were Deities, ordinary men with direct access to unlimited wealth and adulation. Before you jump to the conclusion that the Stoics were dour and sad men, ask yourself, if you were a dictator, what would your diary look like? Stoic writing is much closer to a yoga session or a pre-game warm up than to a book of philosophy a university professor might write. It’s preparation for the philosophic life where the right state of mind is the most critical part. Stoics practiced what are known as “spiritual exercises” and drew upon them for strength. Let’s look at nine of the most important such exercises. Get Your Free DAILY STOIC Starter Pack Get ItIncludes an introduction to Stoicism, best books to start with, Stoic exercises and much more! 1.Practice Misfortune “It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself for difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favors on it is then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs.” -Seneca Seneca, who enjoyed great wealth as the adviser of Nero, suggested that we ought to set aside a certain number of days each month to practice poverty. Take a little food, wear your worst clothes, get away from the comfort of your home and bed. Put yourself face to face with want, he said, you’ll ask yourself “Is this what I used to dread?” It’s important to remember that this is an exercise and not a rhetorical device. He doesn’t mean “think about” misfortune, he means live it. Comfort is the worst kind of slavery because you’re always afraid that something or someone will take it away. But if you can not just anticipate but practice misfortune, then chance loses its ability to disrupt your life. Montaigne was fond of an ancient drinking game where the members took turns holding up a painting of a corpse inside a coffin and cheered “Drink and be merry for when you’re dead you will look like this.” Emotions like anxiety and fear have their roots in uncertainty and rarely in experience. Anyone who has made a big bet on themselves knows how much energy both states can consume. The solution is to do something about that ignorance. Make yourself familiar with the things, the worst-case scenarios, that you’re afraid of. Practice what you fear, whether a simulation in your mind or in real life. The downside is almost always reversible or transient. 2.Train Perception to Avoid Good and Bad “Choose not to be harmed and you won’t feel harmed. Don’t feel harmed and you haven’t been.” -Marcus Aurelius The Stoics had an exercise called Turning the Obstacle Upside Down. What they meant to do was make it impossible to not practice the art of philosophy. Because if you can properly turn a problem upside down, every “bad” becomes a new source of good. Suppose for a second that you are trying to help someone and they respond by being surly or unwilling to cooperate. Instead of making your life more difficult, the exercise says, they’re actually directing you towards new virtues; for example, patience or understanding. Or, the death of someone close to you; a chance to show fortitude. Marcus Aurelius described it like this: “The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” It should sound familiar because it is the same thinking behind Obama’s “teachable moments.” Right before the election, Joe Klein asked Obama how he’d made his decision to respond to the Reverend Wright scandal. He said something like‘when the story broke I realized the best thing to do wasn’t damage control, it was to speak to Americans like adults.’ And what he ended up doing was turning a negative situation into the perfect platform for his landmark speech about race. The common refrain about entrepreneurs is that they take advantage of, even create, opportunities. To the Stoic, everything is opportunity. The Reverend Wright scandal, a frustrating case where your help goes unappreciated, the death of a loved one, none of those are “opportunities” in the normal sense of the word. In fact, they are the opposite. They are obstacles. What a Stoic does is turn every obstacle into an opportunity. There is no good or bad to the practicing Stoic. There is only perception. You control perception. You can choose to extrapolate past your first impression (‘X happened.’ –> ‘X happened and now my life is over.’). If you tie your first response to dispassion, you’ll find that everything is simply an opportunity. Note: This exercise served as the inspiration behind The Obstacle Is The Way. 3.Remember—It’s All Ephemeral “Alexander the Great and his mule driver both died and the same thing happened to both.” -Marcus Aurelius Marcus Aurelius wrote to himself a simple and effective reminder to help him regain perspective and stay balanced: “Run down the list of those who felt intense anger at something: the most famous, the most unfortunate, the most hated, the most whatever: Where is all that now? Smoke, dust, legend…or not even a legend. Think of all the examples. And how trivial the things we want so passionately are.” It is important to note that ‘passion’ here isn’t the modern usage we’re familiar with as in enthusiasm or caring about something. As Don Robertson explains in his book, when the Stoics discuss overcoming ‘passions’, which they called patheiai, they refer to the irrational, unhealthy and excessive desires and emotions. Anger would be a good example. What is important to remember, and this is the crucial bit, they seek to replace them with eupatheiai, such as joy instead of excessive pleasure. Returning to the point of the exercise, it’s simple: remember how small you are. For that matter, remember how small most everything is. Remember that achievements can be ephemeral, and that your possession of them is for just an instant. If everything is ephemeral, what does matter? Right now matters. Being a good person and doing the right thing right now, that’s what matters and that’s what was important to the Stoics. Take Alexander the Great who conquered the known world and had cities named in his honor. This is common knowledge. The Stoics would also point out that, once while drunk, Alexander got into a fight with his dearest friend, Cleitus, and accidentally killed him. Afterward, he was so despondent that he couldn’t eat or drink for three days. Sophists were called from all over Greece to see what they could do about his grief, to no avail. Is this the mark of a successful life? From a personal standpoint, it matters little if your name is emblazoned on a map if you lose perspective and hurt those around you. Learn from Alexander’s mistake. Be humble and honest and aware. That is something you can have every single day of your life. You’ll never have to fear someone taking it from you or, worse still, it taking over you. 4.Take The View From Above “How beautifully Plato put it. Whenever you want to talk about people, it’s best to take a bird’s- eye view and see everything all at once— of gatherings, armies, farms, weddings and divorces, births and deaths, noisy courtrooms or silent spaces, every foreign people, holidays, memorials, markets— all blended together and arranged in a pairing of opposites.” Marcus Aurelius Marcus would often practice an exercise that is referred to as “taking the view from above” or “Plato’s view.” It invites us to take a step back, zoom out and see life from a higher vantage point than our own. This exercise—envisioning all the millions and millions of people, all the “armies, farms, weddings and divorces, births and deaths”—prompts us to take perspective and just like the previous exercise, remind us how small we are. It reorients us, and as Stoic scholar Pierre Hadot put it, “The view from above changes our value judgments on things: luxury, power, war…and the worries of everyday life become ridiculous.” Seeing how small we are in the grand scheme of things is only one portion of this exercise. The second, more subtle point, is to tap into what the Stoics call sympatheia, or a mutual interdependence with the whole of humanity. As the astronaut Edgar Mitchell, one of the first people to actually experience a real ‘view from above’ put it, “In outer space you develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do something about it.” Take a step back from your own concerns and remind yourself of your duty to others. Take Plato’s view. 5. MEMENTO MORI: MEDITATE ON YOUR MORTALITY “Let us prepare our minds as if we’d come to the very end of life. Let us postpone nothing. Let us balance life’s books each day. … The one who puts the finishing touches on their life each day is never short of time.” Seneca The quote from Seneca above takes part of Memento Mori—the ancient practice of reflection on mortality that goes back to Socrates, who said that the proper practice of philosophy is “about nothing else but dying and being dead.” In his Meditations, Marcus Aurelius wrote that “You could leave life right now. Let that determine what you do and say and think.” That was a personal reminder to continue living a life of virtue now, and not wait. Meditating on your mortality is only depressing if you miss the point. The Stoics find this thought invigorating and humbling. It is not surprising that one of Seneca’s biographies is titled Dying Every Day. After all, it is Seneca who urged us to tell ourselves “You may not wake up tomorrow,” when going to bed and “You may not sleep again,” when waking up as reminders of our mortality. Or as another Stoic, Epictetus, urged his students: “Keep death and exile before your eyes each day, along with everything that seems terrible— by doing so, you’ll never have a base thought nor will you have excessive desire.” Use those reminders and meditate on them daily—let them be the building blocks of living your life to the fullest and not wasting a second. 6. “Is This Within My Control” “The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own . . .” Epictetus The single most important practice in Stoic philosophy is differentiating between what we can change and what we can’t. What we have influence over and what we do not. A flight is delayed because of weather— no amount of yelling at an airline representative will end a storm. No amount of wishing will make you taller or shorter or born in a different country. No matter how hard you try, you can’t make someone like you. And on top of that, time spent hurling yourself at these immovable objects is time not spent on the things we can change. Return to this question daily—in each and every trying situation. Journal and reflect on it constantly. If you can focus on making clear what parts of your day are within your control and what parts are not, you will not only be happier, you will have a distinct advantage over other people who fail to realize they are fighting an unwinnable battle. 7. Journal Epictetus the slave. Marcus Aurelius the emperor. Seneca the power broker and playwright. These three radically different men led radically different lives. But they seemed to have one habit in common: Journaling. In one form or another, each of them did it. It would be Epictetus who would admonish his students that philosophy was something they should “write down day by day,” that this writing was how they “should exercise themselves.” Seneca’s favorite time to journal was in the evenings. When darkness had fallen and his wife had gone asleep, he explained to a friend, “I examine my entire day and go back over what I’ve done and said, hiding nothing from myself, passing nothing by.” Then he would go to bed, finding that “the sleep which follows this self-examination” was particularly sweet. And Marcus, he was the most prodigious of journalers, and we are lucky enough that his writings survive to us, appropriately titled, Τὰ εἰς ἑαυτόν, Ta eis heauton, or “to himself.” in Stoicism the art of journaling is more than some simple diary. This daily practice is the philosophy. Preparing for the day ahead. Reflecting on the day that has passed. Reminding oneself of the wisdom we have learned from our teachers, from our reading, from our own experiences. It’s not enough to simply hear these lessons once, instead, one practices them over and over again, turns them over in their mind, and most importantly, writes them down and feels them flowing through their fingers in doing so. In this way, journaling is Stoicism. It’s almost impossible to have one without the other. 8. PRACTICE NEGATIVE VISUALIZATION The premeditatio malorum (“the pre-meditation of evils”) is a Stoic exercise of imagining things that could go wrong or be taken away from us. It helps us prepare for life’s inevitable setbacks. We don’t always get what is rightfully ours, even if we’ve earned it. Not everything is as clean and straightforward as we think they may be. Psychologically, we must prepare ourselves for this to happen. It is one of the most powerful exercise in the Stoics’ toolkit to build resilience and strength. Seneca, for instance, would begin by reviewing or rehearsing his plans, say, to take a trip. And then, in his head (or in journaling as we said above), he would go over the things that could go wrong or prevent it from happening—a storm could arise, the captain could fall ill, the ship could be attacked by pirates. “Nothing happens to the wise man against his expectation,” he wrote to a friend. “. . . nor do all things turn out for him as he wished but as he reckoned—and above all he reckoned that something could block his plans.” By doing this exercise, Seneca was always prepared for disruption and always working that disruption into his plans. He was fitted for defeat or victory. 9. AMOR FATI: LOVE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS The great German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche would describe his formula for human greatness as amor fati—a love of fate. “That one wants nothing to be different, not forward, not backwards, not in all eternity. Not merely bear what is necessary, still less conceal it….but love it.” The Stoics were not only familiar with this attitude but they embraced it. Two thousand years ago, writing in his own personal journal which would become known as Meditations, Emperor Marcus Aurelius would say: “A blazing fire makes flame and brightness out of everything that is thrown into it.” Another Stoic, Epictetus, who as a crippled slave has faced adversity after adversity, echoed the same: “Do not seek for things to happen the way you want them to; rather, wish that what happens happen the way it happens: then you will be happy.” It is why amor fati is the Stoic exercise and mindset that you take on for making the best out of anything that happens: Treating each and every moment—no matter how challenging—as something to be embraced, not avoided. To not only be okay with it, but love it and be better for it. So that like oxygen to a fire, obstacles and adversity become fuel for your potential. Stoicism is Ideal for the Real World The Stoics were writing honestly, often self-critically, about how they could become better people, be happier, and deal with the problems they faced. You can see how practicing misfortune makes you stronger in the face of adversity; how flipping an obstacle upside down turns problems into opportunities; and how remembering how small you are keeps your ego manageable and in perspective. Ultimately, that’s what Stoicism is about. It’s not some systematic discussion of why or how the world exists. It is a series of reminders, tips and aids for living a good life. Stoicism, as Marcus reminds himself, is not some grand Instructor but a balm, a soothing ointment to an injury wherever we might have one. Epictetus was right when he said that “life is hard, brutal, punishing, narrow, and confining, a deadly business.” We should take whatever help we can get, and it just happens that that help can come from ourselves. P.S. Want more? Sign up for the Daily Stoic newsletter now and receive the free 7 day “stoic starter pack” packed with resources on Stoicism—from more stoic exercises to recommended books—as well as a chapter from bestselling author Ryan Holiday’s book, The Obstacle Is The Way

Definitely, I have seen three posts here so far where people have decided to or are contemplating killing themselves. Leo needs to take a more compassionate approach at times and address this issue in the form of a video about nihilism and suicide. In his spiritual awakening video, enlightenment happening in real time, he said that he doesn't care about anyone any more and I think dropping that attitude would be a good idea.

Name: Druid420 Age: 27 Gender: Male Location: Norn Iron Occupation: Theoretical Physicist Marital Status: Dating Kids: No Hobbies: Appreciating/experiencing nature, mind alteration, socialising, understanding, skiing, football, everything adrenaline, enjoying the experience. I have led something of a confused existence, at least in my early years. I was born into a war torn country where racism was rife without any need for a differing skin tone. I was born into a rich family from a poor society and as such as was persecuted by my peers. I hated myself and my entire existence. I ended up running from my lands and exploring the world but my mind had become corrupted and everything tasted bitter. I became addicted to heroin and lived on the streets for a while. My only concern was to anaesthetise life for my existence was nothing but pain. My family began signing me into rehab facilities which followed very christian 12 step methods thats main objective seems to be trying to break you into such small pieces that maybe they can rebuild you. The glue of which I am made is much too strong for this and as such I did not break but only hated myself more and more and ever more desperately tried to numb my existence. I attempted suicide many times but found myself always waking up. Might I add that these were all very serious attempts performed with the upmost conviction. It was always even more depressing to find myself unsuccessful in my endeavours and cursing the world before I'd inevitably get sectioned for a few weeks. Nothing seemed to be going anywhere - it reached the point where I'd load a 0.8 gram hit into a syringe and I would hardly even notice the relief. I never stole or came by money dishonestly for the drugs, so I suffered countless cold turkey withdrawals - in hind site I reckon this time of constant withdrawal served to fortify my resolve in general. I feel very strong these days simply by knowing my conviction could tackle something so seductive. > Some side story - from my childhood I have experienced very strong ASMR and dream walking, in my early teen years I began to suffer depression and insomnia - in an effort to defeat the insomnia I took to meditation - very ad lib might I add, but very valuable. 12 months ago we went on a family holiday to Thailand. Things where okay - I was quite depressed and had also got a bad dose of travellers bug while in Dubai for one week before travelling onwards (my big sister is quite epileptic so we need to let her body clock adjust which is why we stopped there). I almost cancelled my onward travels to return home, I was feeling that bad. But my father convinced me to come to Thailand with everyone and if I was really feeling bad I could fly home from there, so I agreed. There was some family conflict regarding myself while we were in Thailand and I got EXTREMELY depressed and suicidal. I ventured out on a moped around the Island of Kooh Samui, where I found my teacher, Ajarn Panthep. He taught me about meditation which I grasped very quickly due to my unguided practices from my youth. He gave me a Sak Yant tattoo and told me some rules of which I should try to live (No alcohol and some things like that - basically be good to keep the blessing). This was my first awakening - I felt so good, like I could be anyone or do anything. I felt powerful. I kept to these for maybe 9 months - being Irish, not drinking over the Christmas period is just a big no no! haha Anyway to wrap things up - I continued my buddhist meditative practices and with in a form of 'self inquiry' - the way Ajarn put it to me was just to fully explore 'Who am I? What am I?' (Etc. I cut off my hand, I am still here and aware, Therefore I am not my hand.) Then when I got my hands on some DMT for the first time a couple of weeks ago everything got focused to a degree I could not even have possibly fathomed before. The whole truth to my self and the self was revealed. I died and was reborn several times. I have been a snake, a pigeon and a rock thus far. The experiences DMT have allowed me to realise are without ANY SHADOW of a doubt the most profound awareness I have ever experienced. I am now on a quest, for my own and my children's sake, along with anyone else who cares to listen, to fully understand these mysteries and integrate this knowledge with my life. I have considered myself strongly as atheist for a long long time, so there's a little internal conflict going on but I really see now that there is something valuable to be had from religions - however most these days have dressed the truth in their own agenda. It is my plan to document my experience as honestly and unbiased as possible for others who want to try and uncover and understand for themselves. Personal challenges I've overcome: Terribly depressed with a disgusting perception of body image Can get very excitable over things that seemed to make socialising difficult when I was younger . I still get over excited about many things (which is a great thing in itself) but I now more actively process these thoughts into digestible and more comprehensible lines so that others can grasp my angle. Was an IV user of heroin, taking 3.5g per day and sleeping in shop windows. Left school when I was 16. Now in university studying Theoretical Physics MSci. What I'm working on now: Working on enlightenment and implementation Working on digesting awoken thoughts into an easily comprehensible form for seekers. Working on improving my health & diet Working on graduating from University and pursuing a PhD.

Okay, so, suicide went well. Took a shit load of sleeping pills, got really drunk and put a bag over my head and went to sleep. Woke up a few hours later and threw up. Brilliant. Today I spoke with a friend who is a Christian and she's doing missionary work. She asked me to go to church a few weeks ago and I politely declined. She told me today that she prayed for me to be protected by God and to allow me to see the path to him. She said she prays for me often. Now, I'm skeptical. But who knows. Maybe God is real. Maybe we are our souls. She says she's going to pray for me and wants me to meet her to discuss God. What do you think? It's late here in the UK. I always feel better late at night when the day is done and there's no pressures. But the thought of trying to end it again persists. I just don't understand how we can abandon that sense of self. That voice in my head is my voice. I know it better than anything. Are we not real?

@Serotoninluv overall we do agree. I think it’s a really big thing that’s missing. Some of these teachers who’ve worked on themselves deeply and now radiate unconditional indiscriminate love and also self-mastery and freedom from suffering, these people do radiate something “God-like”. Regardless of your degree of suffering or not really suffering that much at all in life, this person can be magnetic. So when someone whose suffering from crippling suffering and is really trying to maybe love themselves and can’t, people who are trying to sit through meditation without incurring some past trauma or get over their low self-worth, etc. those kinda of people who have that “god-like” (not to say all spiritual teachers are st that point but it makes for a good example) level of self-mastery can become icons to those people and almost invevitably be a huge influence to them. To shoo them away because that ain’t there domain I think really is a disservice to those other people. Now, again, don’t take this as being black and white. I’m not in some fantasy where I expect spiritual teachers to now play the role of like Tony Robbins or whoever. Obviously, there are people who are so stuck in the mind and suffering that, no matter what you do or say to them, they will not comply, they might just play more victim ego games, etc. Nonetheless, I don’t think that’s an excuse. I’ve gone to many teachers and on the other end many of previous therapists (and also psychiatrists, past counselors, etc.) here where I live in San Francisco and man... I cannot tell you demoralizing and how inhuman it can feel when you’re constantly turned away because “that’s not my field,” and they can’t talk about it whether it be for legal reasons or whatever. This whole thing legally and in our medical system is really fucked up. Everything is so segregated and split off people just hyper specialize in one narrow niche fucking thing and they’re useless in everything other than that. If I see a psychologist and they only do psychoanalysis, they’re useless when it comes to building self-esteem, etc. Everytbing is so hyper specialized people need to have to like 20 different fucking people. Can you elaborate more on what you mean by this and what you’re referring to? I want to be clear first - I know your intentions are well and then some and can tell you’re speaking from a place of compassion. What you have to understand is (and I’m going to use myself as the example as I feel I’m a good case for it) people are really deeply suffering as a result of their psychological issues, past traumas can lead to crippling low self-esteem. I’m defining self-esteem as Nathaniel Branden does which includes 2 fundamental components: self-efficacy & self-respect. For me, spiritual work is so hard because to do it deeply or even “luke warm” you have to apply daily consistency to your practice. I personally have horrendous self-esteem. I have really low integrity. Some small little hiccup go off in my day (like today - I couldn’t find my house key because I lost my glasses and I’m out of contacts because I’ve been suffering from memory issues since getting off 17 years worth of Adderall and now my short-term memory has been getting worse and worse) that would seem like nothing to the outside person and then I berate myself, become so emotionally unstable because it’s like a justification that symbolizes my own uselessness how I’m going to go nowhere and that I’m a loser and next thing I know 8 later I have suicide ideations. Now, fortunately, thanks to actualized.org I have a frame of reference of what’s actually going on which helps me just get through those really harsh moments where I feel dead inside and have no hope in my life. Not to mention trying to mindful of that frame of reference when my low self-esteem leads to such low levels of insecurity in my own behavior that reflect such selfishnesses even when you know that selfishness is the very that’s hurting me. However, most people don’t even have that frame of reference. Most people don’t have a clue what’s going on. Then they go see a spiritual teacher and make spiritual friends who continually spout their misinterpretations of non-attachment and so forth. Understand that when you get low enough it’s so incredibly hard to turn around... even if you understand the mechanism.

Dont know how to describe how important self reflection is, so let me tell you what happened to me. This is actualy the second time i am doing this work, the first time went terribly wrong, and here is why... When i first saw all of Leos content i went nuts for it. I saw all the new possibilities for me and for my life and it just consumed me. I watched at least one video every single day, sometimes two or three. I started meditating, concentration practice, enlightenment work, you name it. The growth i got in only three months was insane, i grew more than i could ever imagine. I changed all my habbits i stopped playing video games completely, i faced some of the greatest fears i had, everything was great, untill i stoped for a moment, and started to reflect on everything that happened. And let me tell you, i was terrified. When i started to realize just what has everything happened in the last month or so it just hit me. I was in terror, completely gone. I didnt know who i was or what i want or what i was anymore. I spent the next six months in complete hell, complete insanity. Angry at everything, completely confused, anxious, depressed, in litteral hell...It took me half a year or so, in complete fear, after attempted suicide, to start to meditate again and to try to dig myselve out of that hole. Its been rugh, but its going better this time, five months passed and i am still alive ?. Only now i realize what realy happened, and where i fucked up. Dont make the same mistake as me, and get too mutch cought up in this work, that you dont even realize what you are doing. Because at some point you will have to stop, and then it will hit you, you'll go crashing down. Nearly made the same mistake again, but not this time.. I realized how important it is to stop and to reflect for a bit. To get some awarness on whats realy happening and to integrate everything, little by little.

I'm not professionally trained in imminent suicide prevention. I can only encourage you to see a specialist in this area or to speak to someone that may help you. Have you tried calling a hotline? I imagine there are 24hr. hotlines with people trained in this area that can help you.

Cause your friends will feel pain, I'd suffer greatly if one of my friends committed suicide and so will yours if you do. You dont have to think they exist or know any conceptual bull shit, if you can suffer, so can other people possibly. I dont even agree with half the ideas you have, language fucking sucks for describing any of this anyways. Trust in how you want to live your life, you seem like a nice guy who is just going through some troubled waters, give it a couple weeks of you being you unforgivably and see from there Also I definitely feel like I exist on some level, or am etc and suffer from the same solipsism from time to time. Its completely normal

I'm not sure if this is written in the metaphorical "ego death" sense or the literal physical death. If it is referring to physical death, I encourage you to contact someone specialized in suicide prevention.

@Paul92 From one perspective, this is an ego that has hit rock bottom and is ready to surrender. Many people on the forum have direct experience with that and can be helpful. Many people on the forum have tried to offer you help with that and would continue to do so if you are open to it. From another perspective, this is a mind-body that is is telling us it wants to commit physical suicide. In such a case, no one on the forum is professionally trained in suicide prevention and therapy. If you are on the edge of committing physical suicide, it is a very serious issue. Just realize noone here is professionally trained in suicide prevention. I would strongly recommend seeking professional help with someone who is formally trained in this area.

Because once you harm your body past all hope, you will be freed from the burden of attachments that weigh you down. At the same time, you will see that you can only live this blissfully, hopelessly, as long as your body is intact. At that point, you will understand that you have made a mistake. You could have given up all hope willingly and live in bliss, until the body decays by itself. Keeping thoughts about suicide as your last resort, if you ever become too attached to enjoy the present moment.

I realize the intent here may be humor. Yet please don’t start trivial thread topics like burning one’s mouth on hot coffee and linking it to dramatic images of a human committing suicide.

It's over 8pm right now. And the fucking sun won't set. It looks like it's still day outside. I'm home alone. My parents are at some theater and my little sister said four hours ago that she's "going out". She hasn't even gotten out of primary school and she's going out already. I should be the one who goes out in this family. I'm trying to reach my little sister because she should be home already but she won't answer. I hear mopeds on the road next to our house. I feel like everyone is having fun except me. Our dog just lost her shit for some reason and started barking like crazy. I got frightened but apparently no one is going to murder me. I really don't wonder why suicide rates are higher at spring. I can't handle this amount of light and it's only going to get worse. I am tired and I feel like shit. I haven't done anything reasonable today, I've just been lazy. Everything feels weird. It almost feels like I'm on some different planet or something. But at least it feels nice to complain about all of this

Sweet fucksticks, really? I have no doubts about capitalism being the issue, though. Given rates of incarceration and suicide.

I've had this same thought. But what exactly is rock bottom? How deep you think you can go? Narcotics, Rape, Murder, Jail, Suicide? Where does it end, surely there is always a lower low you can get to and a higher high. Guess what, if from this moment onwards you commit to doing what you want then this moment will literally be rock bottom for you. But you don't need to turn everything around, nor can you. Just pick something to do and do it every day. Start by reading a book every day, commit to reading at least one word in a book every day just one word inside the book and commit 100% no exceptions for 60 days. Make it a book you're interested in as well (maybe one on procrastination or psychology or depression). Read Loving What Is by Byron Katie and then do The Work on the belief "I need to hit rock bottom". Good luck!

@kindayellow Similarity between the concept of physical death and ultimate happiness is an unsettling one, but in my experience, it's undeniable. In moments of great peace, it also slipped my tongue that 'I could die right now". The reconciliation of this morbid connection comes from understanding the mechanics of desire. When we desire, we want something to be present. We strive for it to release ourselves from this feeling. Satisfaction comes from release, not from fulfillment/happiness. This is why desire is suffering. In this sense, death is the ultimate release. The end of time. To conflate this understanding with harm of the physical body is a great misunderstanding. To kill the body in escape from desire is to desire to be desire-less. Suicide is the ultimate confusion. If you feel truly happy, truly free, there is no need to do anything. Why would you kill yourself then? Why would you keep on living? This is why enlightenment is not-knowing.

Specially since the pursuit of enlightenment (if done improperly) can lead to depression. All it takes is for a person to mistakingly identify with nothingness instead of getting rid of identification altogether. That is the recipe for depression, nihilism, and potentially suicide.

If I may add my own two cents: There have been posts where people claimed they were going to claim suicide. I've seen two myself. That is the real issue which something should be done about, maybe a pinned suicide prevention post. As for the claims regarding these posts being deleted/hidden by mods, i have not seen such a thing myself.

The exact same thing happened to me and I totally understand what you are going through. Leo's video called "what is god" sent me into a dark solipsistic hell hole from which I have not yet escaped fully from. Yes, nobody exists as any separate physical entity it is just one consciousness interacting with itself, but your finite mind is not the only finite mind. The ideas Leo peddles here are dangerous and go against compassion and respect for others. Why be kind and respectful if all that exists is just you and your mind? Go and read the nature of consciousness by Rupert Spira, although it is a bit unsettling, it's not nearly as nihilistic and dark as the stuff here and actually helped me. I am sorry to say it but I think Actualized.org has turned into a cult and it's only a matter of time before somebody commits suicide. Leo's recent videos have fucked with my head and now I am just going through the motions of life like a dead program. Please correct me everyone if I have totally got the wrong perspective on this?

@Paul92 Let's get to core of your unhappiness first which is your break up. I want you to notice something about happiness. I want to propose that happiness really comes from inside you as opposed to other people. What happens is that you let go of your happiness from your heart and project it on other people. You then regain it when you are intimate with those people. But if the two of you fall apart, she'll take your happiness with you. If you want to stop your sadness, all you need to do is to allow your happiness to return to you. There is no need for anti-depressants and suicide.

Has leo not masturbated for 30 days? While he was on retreat i was thinking 1 week: —oh man he must be meditating right now 2 week: —damn he is surely already into it. 3 week: what the fuck i hope his doing 5 meo! how boring!!! BUT It would not have been better to complete the 30 days and conclude zero results on orthodox practices? To achieve this god molecule you will need to stick the 5meo in your butt? Is not the actual state (whatever the level you think) THE actual state with big letters and in consequence the possible—divine? Is Leo possesed by the maze of his big mind? in consequence now he created god? Is he going to suicide? Is Leo actually opened to certain rare level while trippin due to all of his previous work and dedication? (Which maybe he is the only capable and really into the rabbit hole) Is Leo silent?