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He ain't awake yet. And though he dwells with the awakened he will not realize that he is the awakened until he opens his mind.

It's a universal question - the chicken or the egg? Some people say that awakening will happen when it is ready to happen, and that those drawn to the path are already in the process of waking up. Others say that those who do a spiritual practice become more 'accident prone' to awakening. The overarching "story" from those who have awakened is that ultimately it is down to grace. The ego self cannot "cause" awakening to happen, because it is not happening to the ego self. If you feel the call to awakening, it is likely that consciousness is calling you, not the other way around.

IMO you create everything, so I suppose that if you are not really awakened it can be quite scary to be, just be without ego. I tell you because I had an experience where I didn't know who I was when I was waking up from bed, and it was really scary for me. At that moment I wasn't doing any practice. Now that I know it is different, I think that is you are very deluded you can be in that state for a long time and that would be (I think) what Christians call it "hell". In fact, you are doing it to yourself.

@Key Elements A saintly man, is none other than a crook in disguise A crook knows himself to be a crook. A wise man knows himself to be a fool or playing the part of the fool. The idea is not that if any of these man, awakened to different facets. They would be woke. The idea is that all these men are already woke and the truth realisation of this woke ness. Is nothing other than truth itself.

Awakening is tend to be seen as the ultimate goal of meditation. And It is true. The permanent and intuitive realization that there is no separate self is the first stage of awakening. Before one delves deeper into other insights, this radical realization colors and sets the tone for the rest of the practice. This advice is for people who use the 'dry insight' practices like self enquiry to become awaken before developing advanced levels of samatha - mindfulness skills. On the surface, it might appear that self enquiry is the more direct and faster path to awakening. However, most people can't get awaken using self inquiry only. But lets say you are one of the lucky people. You got stream entry all of a sudden before really mastering concentration and awareness skill. But that is not the end of the path. And you should not rely on such a luck based strategy. Stream Entry doesn't turn you into a master-level meditator. It doesn't guarantee stable attention in daily life. It doesn't guarantee strong metacognitive and introspective awareness as a permanent baseline. Not without manual training. These are samatha skills one builds with mindfulness techniques. Self enquiry won't solve all of your problems. Even if it leads to awakening after 20 years of practice. A stream enterer will have easier access to high states of concentration and master the path of samadhi faster than a non-awakened meditator. But the real question is how awakening occurs in the first place? Science currently doesn't have a conclusive answer to this question. One thing for sure is that meditation, mindfulness and Samatha practices which builds stable attention and strong peripheral awareness aids and increases the odds of awakening. Once you master the no-mind and stable attention as a solid baseline before self enquiry, you put yourself ina very advantageous position. You will be living the rest of your life on a natural high if you are doing the practices right. Samadhi requires more work. It takes more discipline. ıt should be done alongside self inquiry. Especially as preliminary work. Samadhi pays off because you never waste your time building these skills. You can spend 20 years practicing self enquiry and 'weak-sauce' mindfulness techniques and really get nowhere. That is not what I'm talking about. 10 years ago, if you struggled to sit for 2 hours straight and now after 10 years, you still struggle doing it, then you are doing it wrong. You are practicing weak sauce meditation. If you struggle strong metacognitive awareness and stable attention after 20 years of meditation, then you don't understand the fundamental skills one needs to build in meditation. You don't practice the right techniques. If you can't reach effortlessness with relative ease after 20 years, then that is not deliberate practice. Don't use talent as an excuse. A better strategy is spending 5-10 years of your life purely mastering mindfulness and samadhi practices. Really emphasizing awareness and high states of concentration both in formal sessions and daily life. This can be done if you practice diligently with the right techniques. Now the rest of your life is going to be spent on self enquiry and similar insight practices. Imagine 10 years of pure self enquiry after mastering samadhi in the first 10 years of your spiritual journey. You are going in and out of deep jhanas, flow states and deep relaxation in daily life interacting with people. Your life changes at this point and some amount of insight penetration occurs even in the most unskilled meditator. If you could access this depth of mindfulness, you are not quite a beginner meditator anymore. You've done a lot of work coming here. Congratulations! Now, what are the chances of permenant realization of no-self here after mastering the fundamentals? Understand that self enquiry is an advanced meditation technique. Success is very slim and requires luck - momentary attunement in a beginner meditator. It only becomes powerful for adept meditators who have high degrees of stable attention, awareness and equanimity. In other words, meditators who've mastered the path of mindfulness. Rather than striving for awakening with craving in a conflicted and chatic monkey mind, you must learn to be patient. Take steps one at a time. Master no-mind first. Awakening is not going anywhere. You are NOT wasting your time. On the long run, you are saving DECADES of spiritual anguish by mastering the fundamentals of practice on the samatha - mindfulness path. No-mind is not an impossible ideal. It can be accomplished. You can tame the monkey mind. It is not some advanced work one does after awakening. It can be mastered more systematically than awakening since it is purely skill-based. Take the time and energy to master samatha practices and you'll be glad you did. I highly recommend reading 'The Mind Illuminated' by Culadasa. That book has everything you need to master the path of concentration and insight development. You can find his version of 'Self Enquiry' explained in the advanced stages of the book for adept meditators. Don't put the cart before the horse. Practice with discipline and diligence. And most importantly, have fun

The common answer we hear from someone enlightened or awakened about many things that happen in this dream, is that its all concepts, believes and notions that collapse in nothingness. Still this sounds very very simple to me, if nothingness is the ultimate and fundamental source and the ego wants to create a narrative and meaning out of things that happen in the world. Does it mean being enlightened shoswsyou there is absolutely no mystery to the world and things that happen and it is only for us to simply "be"? I mean there seems to be a mysterious force that is leading things to somewhere, according to the collective consciousness. So many things like, Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, ancient prophecies, the Egyptians and their pyramids, Atlantis, the Annunaki and the story of the true origins of human kind,Adam and Ebe and so forth and so on. There is so much mystery on earth that it doesn't seem valid to say it's all concepts that collapse and it is only the ego trying to create a narrative. I mean all the beautiful creative languages, the not solved mystery of how did humans really evolve on earth, are we a mixture of apes and intelligent ETs? Are these ETs gods/brothers going to show themselves to us anytime? How are our actions and our characters really determined? How is it that the character of everyone is so precisely detailed in astrology and forms ones path? Saying that there is nothing and God consciousness just created us to "be", and not rely like the whole truth, because there seems to be so much unresolved on earth alone and so many mysteries come up. Every single event thing on earth is created by gods creative imagination and it seems so much more rich than for us only to "be". Because just logically, how many humans throughout modern and even ancient history and especially nowadays just manages to simply "be" most are driven by the ego characters and desires and by an unconsciouss consciousness and finally are driven by god to mark something in history.

Short story: Awakened two years ago. Ever since life feels like it shouldnt have happened after that day or feels like it is "a dream". Feeling like my person, ego, sense of self is there but I cant attach to it with my logic anymore. Yesterday I went through this awakening mentally. It was painful. I got a huge backlash. I felt like I was going insane. It felt like I perceived life the way it would be if I believed my stories and thoughts: horrible. Then this sense of self my logic tries to get a grip on...but it doesnt work. It triggers a feeling of "death" being the only solution for my logic. My body seems not to be integrated at all. Focusing on breath triggers dissociative feelings of my body not being "mine". Furthermore this logic thing is always underneath lingering there just waiting to pop on the surface. It makes some situations unbearable. Mind says: it makes no sense that I am here alive when "your person in your head" died 2 years ago. Story? Why is this story there? Somehow it is there and just feels so true. I got Flashbacks too yesterday, I felt set back into the past, I was taken into another dimension, absolute utter horror. And I have absolutely no clue how to deal with that stuff. Logic doesnt work. I am just utterly and deeply confused. And that makes me very anxious.

Truthority has been banned from this forum. It is obvious he will keep creating distractions if he was allowed to stay. I swear, after managing this place for 3 years, it's getting too easy to spot the troublemakers before they even get warmed up. So I am less oepn to giving them second chances these days. I don't like banning people, but it comes with the territory. P.S. I've noticed a good clue that some new member is likely a devil: his username will contain a word such a Truth, Enlightenment, Consciousness, Infinity, or some noble phase like "The Awakened One" or "I Love Truth". It's a classic sign of a devil to co-opt such terms. If the username sounds too noble, be very suspicious.

@Keyhole @Salvijus @Rinne @The Awakened Viking @mandyjw @Corpus @OBEler @Rinne @Richard Alpert @Enlightenment @NoSelfSelf @Zigzag Idiot @Nahm day 6 update no sleep, very fatigued had tripping like feeling like 4 times tinnitus grew louder, heart beat went rapid, felt weird sensations of energy, mostly around intestine it can go to other parts of the body when i observe overtime can go up to legs,ass forearm, the worst part is the brain since i can feel it pumping blood harder, mind was very active wide awake when this happened impossible to sleep it feels like a stimulant (note no feeling of leaving body slight this time) i'm starting to wonder if this is really kundalini energy or just some unknown drug turning on and off stuck at my intestine, even though i did poop as mentioned over 4-5 times by now and poop'd another one last night the method of administration was with filtered white vinegar only (ingredients on the bottle said it had filtered water + filtered white vinegar) any chance it's because of that that this is so on going? or is it really all in my head a ptsd or hppd.. i'm deseperate for answers hence i pinged eveyrone, sorry guys, i just want to rest and have peace, if anyone has any idea if vinegar messes with the meo after effects of trips let me know @Aeris i dont have the energy for sport but i'll try walking more often Edit: i Looking at phone i noted timing of when i felt like i started tripping 2:56am 3:31am 6:56am 10:22am the timing isn't always accurate sometimes i would be late by a few minutes since i'm trying to let go seeing if anything is changing

That's an awakened Being for ya.

@Esoteric Disclaimer, I JUST discovered this, am not an authority and really don't want to mislead anyone so please take what I say with a grain of salt. I would forget about raising kundalini energy for now and try to ground your energy instead. The author warns strongly against raising kundalini energy if you've already stared "The Grail Path." See how it makes you feel. I have the exact same stomach area blockage, in fact, I had a strange stomach pain start right before I had my awakening and it's still persists. Consider that you may have been born awake to kundalini energy or awakened in already at some point in early life, raising more of it may cause a storm or imbalance. If it doesn't feel right it isn't right, your inner being knows, even if it's against ancient traditional teachings, your inner being is far more ancient than that, and it speaks to you through feelings and sensations. I would focus on grounding your energy. I kept getting headaches whenever I tried to raise energy. I can tell when I'm working through a pain or block, and this was not that kind of feeling it was a "NO!" kind of pain. For some their path is open to the higher selves, they need to awaken to love and their creative self they need to open the higher chakras. For us, we were born awake to that but struggle with the realities of life here on Earth. For example I've always been a hopelessly messy artist type. Difficulty with managing time, difficulty focusing, very controlling about money, lots of base chakra imbalance problems. In the past we were taught that we must be retarded spiritually to be struggling with such aspects in life, but in reality our path is happening in reverse. Consider how you might work to solve your lower chakra problems, not because you missed something along the way at the start of the path but because they might very well be the last leg of your journey. There's a lot of Christian symbolism in her writing, Jesus was a rare master of both paths and may be a map to teaching/helping all types to awaken fully.

@Aeris Hehe This one had 4 - 5 different stages with played all sorts of music but yes mostly psy, deep jungle, soulful, those type of vibes that hit the spot and reconnect you with mother nature @Jed Vassallo That's amazing! and yeah its an experience like no other, these gatherings raise the frequency of the planet so much! I love being out in nature and everyone there behaves like a direct extension of nature fully expressing itself. There's a deep oneness that occurs if you observe deeply, its like everyone's on natural autopilot and nature has activated and awakened all her cells to celebrate and express themselves. All the colour and art you see is just that, nature expressing itself. Especially the children, they make my life <333 Peace & Love <3

For the past few days I've been questioning why so many enlightened masters are men and why the love realization seems to be absent for some of them. I stumbled upon this lady's writing and was absolutely blown away. I bought and read this book. https://www.amazon.com/Grail-Path-Achieving-Transformation-Emotional/dp/0692558837/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=the+grail+path&qid=1565441524&s=gateway&sr=8-4. For the logical (masculine) type, kundalini energy will need to be raised through the base chakra. Kundalini energy is feminine energy that comes from the earth, below. The Hero's Journey is an illustration of this path. For the emotional creative type (feminine) masculine energy is received from above, (Father Sky, our Heavenly Father) requires grounding from the higher chakras. His or her path is taking expansive love and creative connection and focusing it in a logical practical manner that can benefit others. She calls this the "Grail Path" "The Grail Path and The Hero's Journey are diametrically opposite paths. The Grail Path utilizes the Divine Power of Grace to cleanse the inner being and grow the Divine Child. The Hero's Journey uses the Divine Power of Kundalini to initiate the inner transformation of killing the ego and heightening the sense. It does not matter if you call these twins Dark and Light, Bread and Wine, Yin and Yang, Lightning and Snake, or Adam and Eve. These mystical twins, through their metaphorical portrayals, show up through the ages and in a multitude of cultures." Basically to go full circle, and become Christ-like and awakened to love you raise the kundalini energy through the Hero's Journey then follow the Grail Path. Jesus was aware of the two paths as he accepted Mary Magdelene as a disciple, which was really radical at the time. The disciples complained. This is from the Gospel of Thomas. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven." I also ordered this book because it is supposed to be the Tao version of The Grail Path. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062501933/ref=rdr_ext_tmb Ramana Maharshi speaks of the heart on the right, but that's because there are two energies and two paths, there's physically one on the left and one on the right. More about the different energies and the balancing of them in yogic traditions here. https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/balancing-act-2 I'm concerned because I feel that people who are born artistic, and in touch with their emotions (most women) are misunderstood and mishandled when it comes to their approach to this work. We are telling a lot of people to go about things ass backwards. Will you help me change this? I know this forum is mostly made up of masculine, logical types, but we need to understand ourselves and integrate BOTH!

@The Awakened Viking i don't think i broke through no, at the start of the trip i remember just dropping on the floor, could not make it to bed it was just that strong when it hit me, i started seeing some white/greyish energy, which slowly changed now i remember bits and parts of these next part i'm not sure what came before or after i remember i had no location or place no space, neither time, i remember pure blanking out but conscious then i suddenly remember all these sensations, i knew everything about this place i was in, it was very familiar, a place i have been there over and over, right now i don't know anything about it in this human state, but when i was there i was so familiar with it, like i knew everything about it and i knew how it would feel if i moved some energy and i knew some strange energy vibration like language, this doesn't make sense probably because i'm poorly translating it, like i'm not sure if it was conscious movements of my space, or was i just in the body unconscious trying to move around feeling such familiar sensations of being re birthed? however it was so shocking familiar it was so scary, not my first or last time for me to sense that, then suddenly i just became pure lungs, just 2 large soft organs, i was nothing but the lungs, not even the body or spinal cord, later on i evolved and turned into my spinal cord and eventually the mind, and i was just slowly coming into consciousness as i was breathing and breathing and breathing realizing what was going on, here i freaked out and just started fighting it breathing to stay alive didn't want this anymore just wanted to go back to mundane life, i felt more appreciation to life, the thought that came by i don't want this anymore was the moment the 5meo hit me as i was falling down unconscious too fast on the floor before reaching bed which made me not want to let go for some reason, my instinct just wanted to fight back the rest of the trip was just me sitting still on the side of my bed breathing and breathing for an hour, eventually i could walk an hour and a half later, and i went a few hours just wondering later on i tried to go to bed and you know the rest from my starting post, i would just try to spend my whole day trying to get sleep since i wasn't getting any even in the mornings, was pretty much fatigued always i think my ego or mind just wants to block away thoughts about it being illusion so it continues the illusion by blinding me more from my true nature of reality, psychologically i just keep telling my self that it's a chemical and is messing with my sensory perception as i refuse to believe what happened, my ego just has too much fear, i just will pamper it and accept it as it is, i already believe in nothing and infinity/oneness anyway, and there is no right or wrong on either path that one wants to live whether deluded or awake, just trying to keep my sanity in check for now since apparently being god is too much to handle

This is what happens @Schahin There's two points of view, the relative and the absolute. From the relative POV you are a person, limited, etc. So, from the POV of the person, you have no free will. In fact, the problem is that you are identifying with the person, that's why the teachings say "you don't have free will". You think you have no free will because of your identification with the body/mind/person. You are in a low consciousness place. (Like I am too). But now, you are confused. Because you are getting awake to the fact that you are God. And if you are God then why you don't have free will? You see???? what you are doing? You are god, and you ask why you don't have free will. That "you" who doesn't have free will is the person, the ego. God always had free will. And you are it. But because of the identification with the person, you think you don't have it. Why? Because when you identify with the person or the ego you want things that God doesn't. Because God has free will he does what is better for "you" to become awakened. But maybe you feel that this that you are doing for your good, to become awakened, because you are in the ego Perspective, you think is bad and that you don't have free will and blah blah blah... If you see it from the Absolute POV you have free will, if you think you are a person, so you see it from the relative POV you have no free will. Both are truth.

@AlldayLoop Have you awakened enough to see that you are totally alone? And that there is no other then you? Your not just the hope for humanity. Your it's outcome.

@AlldayLoop More awakened cultures realize these ppl as Shamans.

@winterknight ?? To that which has awakened, it awakens to the always and already, inherent divine love of it'Self. It's this always and already inherent divine love, that allows everything to be "as it is". It's why "everything, as it is" or "This"(the only 'this" that is), as it is, is perfect 'as it is". The "I am that I am",the "everything and nothing" the indescribable whole, is already perfect. Love shines in, and as, this wholeness. No one , has a personal claim to it as something "I' have known, "I" have awakened to or achieved, over another. It's what is and has always been so. And is readily available to all. See "what is not",and" what is" shines , as always having been the case. And who's the one to say or presume as to who,or who hasn't, awakened to what "I" have. It is pure assumption based on a duality of "me" and 'them" of which there is no such thing.

That changes everything. I thought you do as you said "low consciousness business" in your OP. If we were to say that, then the opposite of it is just as problematic as it is. The need to fap always can be controlled by being neurotic, but that's not a healthy form of sexuality. Same with not wanting sex at all, it can be forced by "deluding" oneself of separation and difference. As you see, both are problematic. Okay, that, in my opinion and experience, is unnatural and needs to get fixed as soon as possible. Not by being neurotic, of course, but rather by bringing awareness into why this is the case. In my case, it was fear that caused the absence of desire. In your case it's the "yet unknown reasons". Maybe you could take a closer look at them. I'm not saying that you're being dogmatic about not wanting to have sex. It seemed to me from what you said that you think that an awakened person shouldn't desire sex but rather use it as a tool for procreation, it's just like thinking that hunger is an illusion and that we shouldn't eat or drink unless we want to survive, which is simply a thought coming from the mind, in other words, the mind governing our lives. So if you don't think so, then that's great. Yes, that's true. I believe we'll get there in the future. We'll eventually come back to our animalistic nature only in more organised ways ?

That's not true awakening, awakening is about balance. What you're doing is just being a radical, due to over-practicing intellectual spiritual techniques. I suggest working on your heart chakra and opening yourself up. You've gone too far in the opposite direction. You have to balance consciousness with unconsciousness. That's a judgement that is coming from the mind. Drop it. I suspect that you have an image in your mind of an awakened person who has no desires. You might as well not want to eat or drink. You see how backwards that is? I also suspect that you have some fears slightly below the conscious, which makes them even harder to spot.

What’s your take on Leo’s comment about you? Thought it’d be fair that you knew about this, if you didn’t already He made a video explaining his awakening to this. It’s 48 minutes long, but I think it’s worth your time watching since this is making a lot of people confused on here (I say confused because the Absolute Love topic has 200+ posts in less than a week). Leo’s claim is that becoming awakened to your true nature is just one out of many facets of this work to become conscious of, and that you’re not fully awake until you are. Do you care to explore about this “Absolute Love”? Does it matter to you that you’re supposedly “not fully awake”?

Not sure what you are talking about. There was definitely a "god" belief way before Gautama Buddha was born. Moses dates back way before the Buddha and all the sages. There were also many gods in India as well. Buddha dismissed all of these as nonsense. He was very specific about how beliefs obscure reality. This should be the first step for anyone on the spiritual path. Beliefs fall into the same category with Hopes, Wishful thinking, Wanting reality to be other than what it is etc. I am actually shocked by how many people on this forum consider themselves awakened and preach that people should believe in x or z. As Lao Tzu said, “The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things.” There is a Tao without One or Yin/Yang, but no One without a Yin/Yang, nor a Yin/Yang without a One, just as there is no Brahman without the illusion or magic show of maya. Oneness is Aristotelian nonsense; a prison of sorts, so distractional in its delusion, that bodhicitta is near totally obscured, and not even considered. To better understand the difference between the Alaya Consciousness of Buddhism (which is actually beyond consciousness) and the Brahman Consciousness of Advaita (which implies “not two”), the following humorous story was said to be told in the Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta, as translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. “Where do the four elements cease without remainder?” Through meditation the monk reached the Heaven of the Four Great Kings, who did not know the answer. Next he went to the thirty three gods in a higher Desire Realm heaven, but none of these rulers knew either. He then asked King Sakka (Indra), the king of these gods, but Sakka did not know the answer. Up and up he went asking all sorts of gods at each and every higher level. Finally he came to Great Brahma, the Creator, Uncreated, Knower of All. When the monk finally achieved an audience with Great Brahma, Brahma appeared in all his majesty and glory announcing, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.” The monk then humbly and respectfully asked his question, but all Great Brahma did was repeat, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.” The monk eventually got frustrated and said, “I know you are “Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be,” but I asked you a question about where the four elements cease without remainder. The Great Brahma replied, “Listen little monk, don’t embarrass me. All these other gods are listening and think I know everything. If you want to know the answer to a question like that, don’t ask me. I don’t know the answer. For a question like that, you have to go ask the Buddha. Our monk gets up from his meditation and finds the Buddha nearby, asking him where the four elements cease without remainder. The Buddha tells him that he’s thinking of the question incorrectly, and should ask where do the four elements have no foothold…”

This may be a hold up of a more experienced or aware practitioner..... One awakened master says one thing and another says another thing, whos to say who is correct, both are saying they are awake and have students that claim they are awake.....but are saying radically different things. Or by what authority other then your own can you say that your awake and know what your talking about, and don't give me that you'll have to see it for yourself B.S, because if your honest about the first question, then that kinda answer won't fly, since there are two recognized claimed awake people that don't see the same thing....

nothing with fear as far as I am concerned. for me. it's the knowing of what I am and then acting out of that knowing. with that, there is never when one isn't in the present moment... there is ONLY the present moment, so the question of being in the moment becomes crazy talk so acting out of the understanding gives birth to the experience / unfolding which is in-line with the understanding of our true position. if it can be said this way... there are bad/evil/egoic/selfish/conditioned/devil thoughts and then there are unconditioned/good/intuitive thoughts/loving/spontaneous/angel thoughts neither are ME but ONE is in-line with the TRUTH and the other is not. both are just the mind battling itself. but when the true position is known, there is functioning from the good thoughts actions only. the higher-awakened mind.

The question comes from a misconception of what awakening is (same wrong assumptions as your prior questions). Awakening is the realization that you are not the mind, not the person at all. There is no "you." Alzheimer's cannot affect that. Actually there are no awakened beings, in fact. There is only awakening.