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@PopoyeSailor This is an awesome summary. Thank you for sharing so many ideas. Seeking truth seems to be an awkward inquiry. If all is love, then abstractly thinking about it is obviously a distasteful approach, but in other hand if this is a permanent fall, then a conscious choice is appreciated. It could be impossible to share how unrestricted awareness feels about itself, since the liberation of our own selfish biases leads to the lack of desire, including the will of sharing this information within ourselves, at least if we assume that consciousness can't be anything else but totally accepting. We can predict that if God were unsatisfied, that there are issues inherent to its own existence, it would reject itself or not become conscious in the first place, but this isn't guaranteed to be possible since this undermine one of the only truth we have right now, that "it" "is". We usually assume "being love" as the only source of happiness, but it could be confused with the very act of breaking through fears, which would be its own reward. Nothingness could lack such feelings. As in, being a completely blank indifferent creator and not feeling anything from it. We can't even know what's the most transcendent intention of kindness between selfishness and selflessness, since both "feel good" in their own way. Well, I'm not trying to shape random conspiracy theories against spirituality, but I just want to be exhaustive. Enlightened people can't prove anything to sleepy dreamers beside saying that this is obviously nonsense. That's said, it's likely that awakening is permanent for the same reason this fearless "state" is where happiness is maximized for the Self. Yes, in a sense we can say that there is no such thing as an universe being imagined right now. Our own desire for a dream within a set of consistent rules creates this projection. We usually like stability and the lack of logical contradictions since it reinforces the idea that our fated escape is leading somewhere, Brahman has no other choice than accepting it. Interesting analogy. Some understandings about the structure of life are useful if we want to know what's best between endless dreams or infinite nothingness. While it's hard to make an accurate sampling of all dreams, and even harder to measure their "awesomeness" since it would be estimated within the lens of our survival biases, it's possible than most of them end after some threshold of love/fear is reached, such as the experience can not be too good or too bad without melting back into Oneness. Yet it doesn't make sense because it would imply the existence of some mathematical distribution beyond the scope of logic, and that the knowledge gap of karmas racing against their own self-entanglement isn't uniform, which is impossible to say. Then it doesn't explain how it is possible for us to understand anything, or how lucky we have to be in order to even understand this. Avoiding waking up might as well be a completely foolish idea or a genius take, I'm not sure of anything. Personally, I will probably be pursuing enlightenment since there is no telling how incredible it is to be in a dream where fear can be recognized as the tearing fault. More convoluted incarnations will only feel hopeless and useless as long as the maximum amount of kindness isn't squeezed out of them. Dreams are only beautiful thanks to the benediction of Love. But then it could be a funny (or horrible) idea to keep accumulating fear in order to make better fireworks. Some speculative reasons for the apparition of jivas: - Part of the birth process of God, which is infinite, therefore this process is endless - Process inherent to the creation of the highest love, required to reach other deeply buried jivas themselves - Divisible bits of awareness trying to escape or falling out of sync, because Oneness is hell and all lies, or whatever unknown reason - In the opposite way, overflow of love are looping back into dreams - Or I'm just alone with extreme schizophrenia I've always found the way consciousness store information really intriguing. Intuitively, I have initially thought that all form that is, is all that is aware. But some people report experiencing the void/emptiness in their trip and coming back from it to their previous human dream. I doubt the relationship between love/fear, form and awareness can be too complicated. One simple explanation is that since God is infinite, it doesn't need to store anything because it already stores everything, including the most nonsensical conscious states. But then it doesn't explain how everything was created at once, through a selective process. I have overlooked the simplicity of God's design. You are right. Since the mechanism of incarnation itself is within a dream, all possible models we can make about it are theoretically possible. I made a another schema based on that without superfluous content.

Nothingness, as formless awareness, is impossible, therefore it doesn't exist. Consciousness can not not be because it never existed in the first place. It all makes sense now.

Beautiful and probably true...for now for me is enough to know that god isn't a prisoner in an eternal jail of loneliness, nothingness and desperation...was not a nice image, but was me, the ego, trembling in front of the eternity...thanks to god wasn't god. Thanks you all for the help, I was really desperate hehe

Of course - in a sense - God has a plan for everyone (everyone is Him/Her), cos God is all-knowing, omnipotent. But the metaplan is just God/Nothingness/Love itself. So void of ground, it is infinite. The ground of being is groundlessness.

@Dazgwny @WaveInTheOcean the problem wasn't the terror. The problem was that , if no one tell me the opposite and I believe, after the experience I absolutely thought that I saw the deep reality, and it was: I'm an human, deeply I'm like a being, and this being is in the infinite nothingness for the eternity, alone. I'm sure that I didn't surrender to the nothingness, because it's a repulse. But when I was there looks like pure nothingness, no thought, empty. Now I'm starting to remember that the nothingness wasn't "good" or "bad" I was dissolved and was nothing. But after a while I started to feel again who I am and I thought: nooooo, all except this! And after I was in my room again. It was a huge teaching, today I was meditating and my meditation was easier and more silently than ever, my breath remembered me to the void. So not so bad at the end, my ego is strong, I know that, I need control , the opposite of the dissolution. But this ego is going to surrender, maybe soon maybe late

Language is a consensus. Each word is a label/symbol. In order for language to work, we must first agree on what aspects of our direct experience we are going to apply a particulat label or not. The label/symbol itself is greatly arbitrary. A cat doesn't look like the word "cat". It's just something we agree upon because it's useful. This consensus is imperfect for two reasons: - Many objects are going to share the same label (all the "cats" in the world, we call them like that). - And more importantly, there will be disagreements on wether some things diserve that label or not (which is why in this forum people discuss things like if we should say reality is everythingness/nothingness/both/whatever). Because of this two factors, we cannot convey absolute truth (direct experience) using language. When we use language, if we both agree that it corresponds with our direct experience we will say it's a true. But a third person may not agree with our use of labels and consider it false, this happens because it dependends on our prior consensus, which is imperfect. Therefore, a statement being true/false is relative. These disagreements happen all the time in everyday life, so it's not about being "overly-techincal". What counts as "cheating in a relationship" for example, is not the same for everyone. . For some a kiss will be chating, and for some only sex will be cheating. People use labels differently This happens because what we are transmitting is not our direct experience. I hope this helps .

The ego has yet to surrender to Love and its own unreality. Takes time, takes more consciousness work. It's a sneaky trick of the ego. It senses its obliberation, and pulls up a last resort trick: "perhaps everything is false/nothing/unreal: but <I> must be true, I exist, me me me! And see what you have done to me by engaging in psychedelics and spirituality and seeing everything is unreal (except me ofc!): I've become depressed by it, stop, stop!" You were just as much God during the peak of 5-MeO as you are now. You're never not God. Only God is! 5-meo "merely" expanded your consciousness as God. "Its what I experienced. only was the nothingness, and me. I'm the only being that exist, alone, in the nothingness" What do you mean when you say "I experienced" : can you show me this "I" ? You say you were the only being existing, alone, but where is this 'being' you speak of? What is it made of? You cannot have 'up' without 'down' -- can you have "me" or "I" or "self" without "other" ? Contemplate.

If isness is only nothing, then you're right. No words can ever describe nothing (except the word nothing ). But luckily isness is everything too, therefore the distinctions are true and included in isness. So you have nothing and you have everything as two different things, yet at the same time only one thing. This paradox allows for both correct and incorrect interpretations. Someone may be identified only with nothing and then deny the everythingness of reality, and someone else may do the opposite and identify only with everything and then deny nothingness. Wouldn't you say that that would be a misinterpretation of isness? And that the only true interpretation has to be that nothing = everything, necessarily?

I may have misinterpreted on that one. For me, this gets super tricky. If there is a truth prior to language, evidence or interpretation - how can my mind conceive of it without language, evidence or interpretation. The best we could do is say “It’s just ISness”. Yet what it the substance of that ISness and how can we describe it without language, evidence or interpretation. Imagine you have lost all of your senses and cannot imagine. You are in a space of aware Nothingness - not even a thought or image. What ISness is here? Thinking “this is an empty space of Nothing” is something - it’s a thought. What is objective and universal in this environment? Objective relative to what? I’m not necessarily disagreeing that you are describing a truth and an important truth - especially in today’s society with so many people creating their own narratives of their relative truth. Yet I wouldn’t term it “absolute truth”. And what is the point of reference of this thing you call an “apple”? Is it not a diffuse cloud of atoms indistinguishable from the “tree”? What is the objective, universal truth of what you call an “apple”? This is why I included the term “external”. You seem to be suggesting that there is an innate truth “out there”, independent of an internal perceiver.

Its what I experienced. only was the nothingness, and me. I'm the only being that exist, alone, in the nothingness, in the eternity of the no time. I didn't see any imagination, only the nothingness, the absolute lonely. When I hadp pass to this world again, I felt: it's horrible, I'm god , and god is alone and can't escape of being god. Could god be like "desperate" or anything negative? Could god be triying to forget that is god and is alone in the nothingness? There was no love there, only nothingness, eternity. That's why my experience was so bad. I was god, and I don't want to be conscious that I'm god, because I'm alone in the nothingness. Wasn't love, only void. Now I don't feel good, I'm trying to accept the nothingness, to live again that void, but something inside me impulse me to do things, to meet people, to drink, to stay far of the void, difficult to sleep well or being alone. Well only was 2 nights ago. But now I remember clearly the void. Wasn't horrible by itself. The horrible was just when I pass to here. I felt oh no, I'm prisoner of myself, no escape for the eternity. Maybe I'm creating that illusion to forget that horror

I feel like I reached a plateau in my meditation practise. My thoughts subside rather quickly and then nothing (with lower case n). My awareness is clear and vivid and I'm observing the nothingness. When a thought appears, I quickly spot it and I can let it go. Then, the nothingness continues. It's not blissful and it's not the peaceful stillness either that you can read about in books. It's just pure blank. If I ask myself the typical self-inquiry questions (who am I?, who's aware? etc), nothing changes, I can't seem to go deeper. I do know that meditation is not about expecting something to happen and there's nothing to achieve and yet, it seems there's a part of me deep inside that's still waiting for something to happen. I'm honestly not sure what's going on. Is this just a phase? Have you experienced anything similar during your practise? Any ideas?

Your distinction between 'being in a state nothingness' and 'being in a state of dreaming' is that: an imaginary distinction, your ego is making; trying to grasp something that it cannot grasp. Nothingness and life/dream/Maya IS completely identical. No difference at all. What you are experiencing right now is nothingness. It's absolutely nothing other than your own imagination as God. Sure, we can talk about states of being stuck in dreamland, and states of being aware 'of what's going on' , but even the state of being 'aware of what's going on' (nothing, imagination, God, Love) is actually just a state of complete and utter amazement, cos it cannot be understood within any thoughts what-so-ever. We can only talk ABOUT the truth with words. We can never GET to the truth with words/thoughts. The truth IS ALWAYS THE CASE. It is not a state. It is what is. What stories you then create inside this 'is-ness' (your mind as God) is exactly that: stories, perspectives, narratives. This is the job of the separate self: to understand its own place in this world. Enlightenment is seeing that all 'trying to understand' is completetly and utterly futile. Reality is seen to be an utterly complete mystery, always out of reach for the separated logical mind. To be enlightened is to give in. To let go. To stop trying. To surrender oneself to the truth is to pour so much love into the ego that it explodes and surrenders to the mystery of existence.

My thought. My awareness. I’m observing. I spot. I let. The nothingness. It’s not. It’s not. It’s just. I ask myself. I can’t. I do know. A part of me waiting for something. The devil’s in the detail. Maybe meditation just isn’t for you.

@Exystem Thanks for the explanation. I'm still unbricking my mind but I'm not sure why it seems obvious to everyone that nothingness is a better state to be in than endless dreams, especially when those are crafted with flawless intelligence. (Well, if I understand you correctly it's not really a state. We are always one with the whole, and I'm just not aware of that). The issue is, since God has already created everything, if we become aware of infinity there would be nothing left to do anymore. I know it's only a selfish take and I'm probably just enjoying myself too much. There could be no greater feeling than being "pure infinite love", but we are talking about eternity in a one-way trip here. Such that even a pathetic insignificant point like me would undertake a more or less careful investigation before jumping in. Eventually, why does anything matter if we are going to be the same force of creation, only exploring itself in a more diluted way? Why did I fall for the love meme? Things would be so much simpler if I wasn't conscious to begin with.

Careful not to reify qualia as self-existing. They don't. If everything were self-perceiving, then the absence of everything could never be perceived. If you suddenly became blind or deaf, you wouldn't even know it. And there would be no reports of nothingness or "the void". The union of perceiver-perception-perceived is the dream as such, not truth and not absolute. It is Atman (I Am), not Brahman (Void). Atman is self, Brahman is no-self. There is no "everything" in any way shape or form. Brahman exists, Atman is a mirage, a "thought" of Brahman. A mirage can't be self-perceiving, there's nothing really there.

Oh yeah I get this. In experience the I that unifies all forms of experience is not experienced as a space, I am just using the word for lack of a better one. Definitely I don't mean a physical space when i say this word. But yes there is one reality. It's definitely not dual. Waking dream, just as dream at night, only appears to be there, while it's only dreamlike /hallucinatory/nonexistory which makes it of the same substance as that nothingness that we start with! Just as a dream It only appears to be real while the dream state is happening. Amazing ?? nothing came out of nothing after all Maybe my flavour of nonduality is a bit different, and probably more escapist if I have to be honest. I say this because from what I heard you say the world is real and there is no self type of nonduality, but I say the self is real and there is no world... Which is probably the same thing in the end somehow ... ? lol

Beginning, duality, birth and end are consciousness, but they are just a thought. Just a thought in infinite nothingness.

Dear gswva, Once again: I'm not enlightened. My knowledge is only through the scriptures I read and videos that I watch online. It's very much possible my knowledge is flawed. Without enlightenment we can only speculate. Even with enlightenment, it seems there are various levels of enlightenment with different knowledge and more depth to such knowledge. Having understood this, we can only speculate. So, lets speculate: From my understanding, all the descriptions that we give about the Brahman are just that: Descriptions and Thoughts. Even the word Brahman is just a label and as such is just a thought. Neither can you say it exist, nor can you say it doesn't exist. It exists without existing. It is the pure absolute nothingness. So absolute in its emptiness that it becomes the very source of every unique thing. Yet, none of those things are different from it. They only exist in and as itself. The way we think and believe seems to be the way Brahman seem to appear to us(Just like the AI in the movie Captain Marvel). In Non-Dual Traditions: The same reality is experienced as nameless and formless but with all potential. In Bhakthi Traditions: Those who worship krishna report visiting krishna and his abode Goloka(Krishna's abode); those who worship shiva talk about their experiences of shiva; similarly the Devi(goddess) has been seen(e,g: Ramakrishna paramahamsa frequently talked with "kali devi"). Similarly, visiting heaven and christ in christianity; Egyptian gods in ancient egypt etc.. In which ever way we create our karma(Cause & Effect - Tendencies, Beliefs, Conditioning, Memories, Behaviours, etc). such seems to be our experience. Each of these worshipers actually experience reality as if their god is the one who created the entire reality and He/She/They/It is the one who is presiding over everything. Such gods actually show to their devotees through certain experiences how they are the alpha and omega of everything(Best e.g: Virat Rupa(Universal Form) of Krishna shown to Arjuna in the battlefield). During such experiences the devotees actually experience their deity to be anything and everything, with all the descriptions and experiences of non-dual liberation as well as dual liberations being present within their deity itself. Although the deity seen with a form, still at the same time being infinite; with everything present within themselves; Just like fractals although seem to have a limited form; after having zoomed in, will reveal infinite patterns with infinite depth. I'll give you just one example of how they experience their realities based on their belief: "In Gaudiya Vaishnava school of bhakthi(Devotional) tradition(ISKCON). Their deity is Krishna. They make a distinction between Material reality and Spiritual reality. Spiritual reality having many varieties of infinite realms all being completely perfect and eternal. Each realm has a certain form of Krishna presiding over that realm. There is no suffering in any of those realms whatsoever. All of them are filled only with blissful experiences. When they want to experience material reality they descend and have them and again return back to their own abodes. Anybody who develops devotion and worships Krishna believing the stories about him with full unconditional loving intensity; after getting liberation in bhakthi(Dual type liberation) and after giving up their physical body, they go to such places and stay there eternally(I doubt it being eternal - But, who knows) Then, Krishna also creates these Material reality where infinite universes are generated and dissolved again and again. Within each of which: material heavens, hells and earthly experiences are experienced according to the karma of the living entities with incarnation and reincarnation cycles going on again and again. until liberation happens. But, they say that all these material heavens and hells and earthly realms are all temporary and will get destroyed during universal dissolution. And all of them are born in a new universe and are placed in situations suitable for their karma. Also, enjoyment and suffering in earth, heaven or hellish realms are experienced only as long as the karma for such enjoyment or suffering lasts. As such, are only temporary. Karma keeps generating and doesn't run out as long as actions are done with attachment for material fruits. In this tradition, there were and still are very exalted enlightened beings who have experienced these realms/realities directly and written about them. These realities are not experienced as hallucinatory. The realities when being experienced are more profound and vivid than even our own earthly reality. In one such story, a sage during his meditation on his lord was experiencing such a realm and got his finger burnt in that realm. When he opened his eyes in our realm, his finger actually was burnt even in our realm(remember that scene in Matrix?)." The experiences mentioned above are only experienced as such by those who follow Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition(ISKCON) which is just one sub-tradition within the vaishnava tradition within Hinduism. Like this, there are literally more than thousand of other traditions within Hinduism itself. There are 33 million gods in Hinduism it is said. Likewise, there are many different religions in other parts of the world each with their own belief and customs and traditions. Just like the e.g given above, all of them experience their LIFE based on how they create their own karma(Cause & Effect, tendencies, beliefs, conditioning, memories, behaviors, etc).. They experience their gods, heavens , hells and other such things, the way they imagined and believed. All of this is just like water in the mirage. As such you can say, it doesn't exist. But then, as some form of an imagination itself, all of it is real. Just like dreams when experienced are reacted-to-emotionally by the dreamer as being real as long as they are being experienced. Please read the sample screenshots of Yoga Vasishta from these posts first: Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind. Just as Imagination is seen within the mind of the one imagining it. There is no possibility of projecting any reality outside of a mind. Our reality is also one such reality projecting within some mind. That being the case, Every reality is only an imaginary one. Even the mind that projects it is also just a mirage. All of this duality with all its universes/realities within such minds is like a water seen in the mirage(Think of such minds as mirages and water seen in the mirages as the worlds seen in such minds). Both mirage and water seen in it are unreal. They exist without existing. Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. Brahman and intention are incompatible with one another. It is not a personal entity. It is completely impersonal and formless. It is beyond intent and intellectualizing. There is nothing that can be said about it. Upon reaching it, all activity stops. No word or thought or imagination can touch it. It exists without existing. You are one with that Brahman they say.. A mere simple movement ( (metaphorical) which is natural and is a characteristic of Brahman; like movement of air is natural for the wind) in Brahman projects out infinite upon infinite of atomic Jiva(s)(Living entities with mind) into existence. The conscious intelligent design only happens(Not consciously happen in all of them) after the Jiva(s) have come into being within Brahman. Within the minds of those Jiva(s): world, rules and regulations, intelligence, logic all these things appear. These are NOT prior to the minds. For first appeared Primary Jiva(s), as well as secondary Jiva(s) - created within those Primary Jiva(s)'s minds; there is no karma initially. But, after acting as and within the world for some time; memories, tendencies, tastes, behavioral patterns, likes and dislikes, all of these are slowly acquired and they act as a repetitive compulsive cycles after a while, these patterns are what are called as vasanas and samskaras. These are collectively called as karma of that individual. As all the entities have such patterns, you can call it as collective karma of each of such groups. Just as when water flows upon land; creates a river bed by flowing continuously; and not able to change its path but to flow within the same riverbed after a while. Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river. Similarly, without karma, the individual will dissolve and cease to exist. Such dissolution is called liberation. Further Speculation: "Not all those Jiva(s) projecting such worlds within them are very intelligent. So these primitive, first order Jivas only project some dumb random, abstract, useless, not so sophisticated; not so very conscious reality within themselves. Initially they don't possess any knowledge whatsoever. After their death. After having gone through several cycles of interaction with other jivas through reincarnation in other jiva(s)'s universes as one of the living entities in those universes and having evolved into higher conscious states(through such interaction by natural evolution which happens randomly as well as driven by karma) as human beings or other such entities, they get more knowledge. These Jivas after their death in other Jiva's mental world/universe/realm might project very sophisticated universes within their own mind(Even during the lowly evolved states they may project some unsophisticated universes within themselves in some of the after-life cycles). Such projection may not happen within each after-life cycle; only when a compatible universe is not found for the karma that this jiva currently possesses that this Jiva may create such a projection. Even then it may simply wait in limbo for a compatible universe. Again, these projections either sophisticated or unsophisticated; may not be conscious ones. Just like our dreams are not experienced with lucidity with full consciousness of knowing them to be dreams. Similarly these projections may also happen unconsciously within themselves. Within these projected universes, there will be numerous Jiva(s) either reincarnated from other realities who have qualities which are compatible with this universe, or newly created ones without having had any karma before. These newly created jivas, can be directly human beings, deities, or any other such evolved beings which the jiva projecting the universe has previous knowledge of. These other jivas each further creating a universe within themselves in their after-life periods, with more jivas within them...with the cycle going ad-infinitum". As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma. We do have strong evidence for that. As I already presented. You need to understand first that, even the universal mind which projects the world as well as the entities incarnate and reincarnate within it, both/all of them are bound by their karma. Although, if more conscious the Jiva becomes, more ability it has - to act with freedom/freewill with less influence from karma. Some Yogis/saints/sages may take the position of such universal mind and project some highly sophisticated realities/universes/realms. Such Universal minds(Jivas(s)) may be with almost absolute freedom(E.g: Krishna in Goloka - Such Jiva(s) are not called as Jiva(s) They are called Bhagawan-Supreme Gods and goddesses for those who worship them). The Abodes/Realities/Universes/Worlds/Heavens what ever you want to call it; created by such Bhagawan/God like entities who have attained very highly unimaginable levels of consciousness/awareness are the worlds where suffering and reincarnation doesn't exist. Whether these worlds exist eternally or not I don't know. It may be a possibility, but I'm not sure. There may be infinite such worlds with varying degrees of sophistication. Depending upon the consciousness prevailing in any reality, reincarnation may or may not be a fact in that reality. May be even in our own realities, not every one reincarnate. I don't know how it works. What I do know is: Karma is what drives reincarnation or any other experience as an individuated entity. Having understood all of this clearly. Keeping the example of Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition in mind. If we think about each of the models you have presented, Even though you have presented them as if each of your models encompass all of absolute existence. Still it is possible to reduce them into different possible realities and it is easily possible that each of those models of reality may be truly be experienced in some of those universes/realities in some of those minds imagining/creating them. Even if such realities doesn't exist anywhere now, they can still be created by imagining them in a certain state of mind, either through Meditation(like mentioned in Yoga Vasishta) or even after Physical Death by keeping on intensely imagining them again and again in your living time now. So, scriptures say that In what ever state of mind you leave your body, during death, that state you'll attain without fail. This is just like how we dream at night about those things which we intensely contemplated in our waking state. Also, you'll only experience those realities and experiences, about which you have knowledge of or atleast related to your mental and karmic structure as a natural progression of your karma. Absolutely random experiences may be a very rare phenomenon. What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again Not necessary for all of creations to merge before other cycle of creations emerge. Infinite creations are keeping on emerging and dissolving infinitely in infinite minds simultaneously. This cycle never stops. Such is the nature of Brahman - Just like breathing is the nature of a human being. Having said that, this is only from the view given in the book:Yoga Vasishta. But, this also depends on your beliefs and world view. Remember: that you only experience what your mental structure believes and allows. The video posted above of Rupert Spira has somewhat a good explanation. For this very reason some people may remember some other people's experiences & memories as their own(As one can read somewhat similar experiences in Yoga Vasishta). But, he seems to assume all the individuated entities as loosely bound with loose covering. But, It is only true for certain individuals in certain states of karma and for certain periods and types of disembodiment. After death, it seems; generally the individuated entities are tightly bound with remaining 4 layers(more like aspects than layers) of coverings mostly intact which I have mentioned in my previous posts. Because of this, these entities acquiring the karmas and memories of other's may be rare. The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not. May be we need to experience Non-Dual enlightenment to understand this. "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" has said that merging into brahman is like a salt doll walking into the ocean. After merging with the ocean there is no coming back. Seems like all non dual scriptures say the same thing. I haven't studied all of them though. May be those who suffer too much choose to dissolve when such an opportunity presents itself. Whereas, those who improve more and more through their effort gain new heights of awareness and consciousness creating their own realities and living in it with full bliss eternally(? - I'm not sure). Sadhguru says in his book that there is no need to keep extending the individuation as every kind of universe has same fundamental structures. But, I don't agree with it. If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation. He himself admitted that he doesn't have much scriptural knowledge. Maybe, too much confidence in one's own ability without proper theoretical knowledge may create such illusions. Also, as I mentioned already, you can only experience those experiences you believe and have knowledge about. Interestingly in the Gaudiya vaishnava tradition, although some of them say that such merging is a permanent suicide. Others say that even attaining liberation through merging with brahman is useless because it is only temporary and after a while they again fall down from that position. May be in this situation is where Rupert Spira's explanation may make sense, because during merging with Brahman there are no coverings and all those layers are completely dismantled. So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma, For those individuals where such combination is not immediately available, maybe only they are created freshly without any karma. Maybe because the newly created individuals in this manner are not entirely uniquely their own selves as they previously were, it is for this reason that it may have been said that: once merged, its finished. It may also be possible that some or all of these merged entities when there is a compatible universe exists, each of these entire entities is brought back with the same configuration. And as such experience themselves as same persons they were before in one of their previous incarnations. The above cases makes sense because it is said that by doing samyama any information can be retrieved that one wishes to retrieve. It would only be possible if all the information is stored permanently somewhere. It is also possible that only information is permanent and not the individuals themselves with all their karmic configurations. Above all, it is also highly possible that each of these cases is possible in some versions of cultural realities whose cultures imagine realities in such different manners mentioned above. Absolutely anything seems to be possible(Both Possibility as well as Impossibility). In order to get proper understanding of reality, you have to read both of these books completely: (Even then you may not understand everything, But will definitely improve your knowledge) Please read this book(Yoga Vasishta) without skipping anything: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

@Breakingthewall infinite nothingness. If you are not 0 (nothing) you can never be with 1 and be 1, which is infinite nothingness. Rest is spiritual ego or business. Dont try to be rainbow cookie ?.

@Breakingthewall You are only getting started. There is much more to discover. Don't let the mind freak out too much. The nothingness is only one facet of a larger thing so keep exploring other facets. Try plugging instead of vaping.

What you call 'reality' exists of course, because you want it to. It's your dream. What is in front of me exists only because I'm dreaming it up. Unconsciously, most of the time, sure, but that's how I like it. You can't tickle yourself can you? Or surprise yourself? Haha. The funny thing is, you can and you do! Only you do it by imagining something 'that is not you' (your friend tickling you, or your girlfriend making a surprise party for you etc.) Look - you are fucking God. No need to speak of God as if God is some 3rd-person-outside-to-you. It is you! There is no duality! What you call duality is non-duality. Non-duality, duality. Let go of your mind games/logic-thinking/concepts/word-games and observe what is going on: it's all your dream. Your imagination. The coolest imagination is that in which I act like there exist something that is 'not-me' or 'out-of-my-control' -- that's very exciting, playful, very thrilling, fun...Love: that's 'other', that's you. God/I/You create apparent duality because of our non-dual nature. It's the only thing 'We' can "do", you see? We can only "do" duality. If We chose not to do anything then that's raw, pure, non-duality: total utterly empty nothingness/oneness. The funny thing is, it doesn't even matter if We do stuff or don't, it's still 'that' (nothing, imagination) if We do, and if We don't do, We do, because by not doing, in the totality of Our absolute emptiness We can't help but create...i.e. in absolute total nothingness exists naturally a potential for infinite dreams/things.

There is no reality or perception. All exist is nothing, and nothing can never be exist. Because of that it is nothing, therefore absolute. Infinite nothingness. Now.

Reality is the escape... In a way it's a realistic dream, its real because what you compare it with is nothingness.. Therefore it's the most real illusion there is.

The initial part of the experience is hellish for those I know who have had it (me included). Being absorbed into God isn't the same level as being embraced by God's Light -- the ecstatically beautiful experience of Lover and Beloved. Instead, it's like falling into a Black Hole where everything is sucked into nothingness except a Single Consciousness which is the one thing that exists. And you are It. There is an overwhelming loneliness and despair that comes with the awareness (which is also a tremendous sense of "remembering") that everything else -- all creation -- is a stupendous hallucination, a multidimensional holographic movie where the script writer, the producer, the director, all the actors, all the scenery and props -- it's all just One Being imagining it and pretending that it's real. http://web.archive.org/web/20130606091318/http://www.elcollie.com/st/god.html Not to mention the risk of psychosis,madness and feeling of unreality after these experiences... xDDD

Every word is not it. Because, IT IS NOTHING, which is you. Thats it. If you never learn you never born. God, consciousness, human, enlightenment, all is an illusion, including me and you (as self). These are all words. Just the SILENCE ITSELF. But be careful if you take yourself as real, you might get in big trouble at the future. Because nothingness can vanish you, and you as self try to bring yourself back, it might cost you major trauma . Trying to come back is an illusion. There is no coming back. Be careful my friend. Because when you go too deep, you can never come back.