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@winterknight Is it possible for someone to fully awaken to their true nature (enlightenement), but still have suicidal thoughts — or even to commit/die by suicide? I pondered upon this question several times because I assume that serious mental health conditions are similar to that of diseases like cancer or diabetes, in that one cannot simply get rid of that human condition simply by just knowing their true nature. Or is it still plausible to say that once one is awakened, the thought or action of suicide becomes completely irrelevant to them and it would be impossible to happen?

I want your help. As I do research for my book, I want to gather a potent collection of objections to spirituality, nonduality, enlightenment, mysticism, the paranormal, etc. I want legit objections that newbies and skeptics commonly have in this work. Here are some examples to get you thinking along the right lines: How can you trust that a subjective experience reveals Absolute Truth? Isn't awakening just a subjective brain phenomenon? Could awakening be a self-deception? Is it possible that there's something beyond Absolute Truth which you could be missing? How is awakening different from solipsism? How is awakening different from nihilism? How is awakening different from pantheism? Why do awakened people still commit evil acts like sexually abusing their students? If God is real, why would God hide himself from people? Why isn't God evident to all people in the same way that the sun is? If awakening is true, why do all the religions disagree so much? You say reality is infinite, but doesn't quantum mechanics say there is a fundamental lower limit to space known as the Planck Length? Why is love, beauty, goodness, and intelligence a fundamental property of the universe but hate, ugliness, evil, and stupidity are not? If God is so loving why would he allow so much evil in the world like rape, torture, genocide, war, etc? How can you trust psychedelics reveal valid truths and aren't just subjective hallucinations? If science is as wrong about the fundamental metaphysics of reality as you say, how come it's so successful at manipulating reality? Why couldn't there be more than one God? If physical reality is imaginary, why can't I imagine a million dollars into my bank account or imagine away a physical illness? If what you say is true, how come serious scientists aren't talking about it? Where is your Nobel prize? I want stuff like that in this thread. Note: I won't necessarily resolve your objections in this thread. I'm simply trying to gather a solid list of them. Please formulate your question/objection clearly and concisely.

Hello everyone. This topic is not posted for the simple reason that I miss my childhood and want to watch Disney films. I recently came across this song: So I am already not in the greatest state (sad moods and stuff) and I am really loving this song and other, funky songs? I am planning to do psychedelics soon and was wondering what experienced psychonauts think of using psychedelics on music like this. A mixture of the famous Alice in Wonderland and instrumental sounds. In general, watching Alice in Wonderland while tripping on LSD would already be a big journey right? Again I am planning to do this during my FIRST trip, considering I don’t think I will get enlightened or awakened at all.

This is utter bs Dépend how you practice a lot & No practice = nothing Both needed. If you got an awakened master it goes quick

Careful. I know extroverts who are awakened and do spiritual practice. And obviously many extroverts make a killing in creativity, business, art. There's more than one way to skin a cat. One should only be a lone wolf if that's what one is called to do. It's not necessary for success. With that said, personally I love lone wolfing life. But that's just me. People here must find whatever kind of lifestyle resonates with them. This is a highly individualized thing.

@cetus56 you're clearly the least awakened moderator on this forum. You don't recognise an enlightened master when you see him? ???

@Gili Trawangan yes there are still traps after enlightenment. One must continually deepen their enlightenment. The awakened must never stray from spirituality. For it is within spirituality that the enlightened one can find their higher life purpose - or divine purpose. Not the individual egoic life purpose but the collective one. This is fueled from a love for reality, and the burning desire to advance mankind and the entire universe forward. To elevate the collective consciousness of all of mankind. This could be through teaching, creating, politics, etc. That is the highest purpose of the enlightened - and the highest trap is yielding to the relentless pull of the ego away from this goal.

@Shaun When I was about your age I did see several therapists. The therapy didn’t help in this case, no transference, more offerings of Amway schemes , but the choosing to stop blaming other people, videos, what have you, was a major paradigm shift, resulting in a major “breakdown” / “transference to Nothing”, in which I lost my name. In a nutshell, it was a big step closer to what I needed, along with other efforts in accountability for my own well being, resulting in realizing I needed to chose radical responsibility, over complaining. Best I can remember (24 yrs ago) I don’t think I was aware I was almost constantly blaming & complaining, thus creating the very perspective in which I was experiencing the suffering, just like you are creating now. The perspective creates the suffering, the suffering is fear, the fear prevents the inspect of the creation of the perspectives. A circle I would not wish upon anyone. There’s a paradox which is tough to swallow, but when the fear & protective mechanics of survival are inspected and addressed properly by inspecting the creation of your perspectives, the paradox dissolves revealing the love it was all along. If you had awareness you are creating your reality, you would of course not relive the past, nor use it to filter your creating of now. Notice no one awakened plays the victim role, and try to make that connection. In a hindsight clarity, you’d be well aware you were deeply asleep, and were not aware you were creating. Notice - you can not rationally deny, all of your choices have led you to this exact here now. You can not both be in a thought story of self / past, and present here now creating. Because in actuality, there is no you in the thought story’s (though it is insanely convincing there is) there is no you to resolve anything in such thought stories. The opportunity for resolution is always present, you must not continue running from it. Here now presence is the “resolution”, to leaving to the past or future via thought stories. Face it, see what it is, now. You are one, not both of those “you’s”, if you will. Create the reality where you let the past go, actually, then you see, then your trajectory of realization is pointed to Wholeness. You are the understanding, that’s why it feels so good and releases falsities. The understanding of the fragmentation you’re creating is itself the recognition of you true being as what was formerly referred to as the fragmentation. It is worthwhile. Taking all the help and resources available to you is the key. Humbleness, humility and peace - “more of true being / self” - are always found within this, wether the methods per se “helped” or not, it’s about you seizing this life of yours. It’s about the choice to move forward in admitting the fear. Anything inspected amply dissolves, fear is not exceptional at all - you’re creating it. You can stop in any given moment, though I acknowledge it is easier said than done, it is away’s nonetheless the truth. Trauma creates a greater void, literally, between thought story you, and The Light You (pls forgive the linguistic of separation). You can forget who you really are, but you can not actually not be who you really are. To pretend you can, is suffering. The you that you think you are has no creating power at all. It a thought, just like the thought ‘toaster’. It’s not a toaster, it’s a thought. Actual you is present indeed, right now, you are just aware of this. As such, you are The Creator, and you can forget this, but you can not not be The Creator in actuality. The painful, painful, painful! Paradox you’re choosing to dance with is the denial you are experience exactly how you’re choosing to perceive. This literally expands void, as all is ineffable truly, - imagaination, Mind, etc - your choices of self denial, God denial, your whole solipsism theory, the rejection of assistance and love from everyone, etc - you are painstakingly expanding the void. The only thing that will enable you to feel better, is to lesson your void, to admit for yourself you are indeed choosing your perspectives, and to begin choosing perspective which are authentic - aligned with your sensation, rather than against them. The practice is so fundemental and apparent, you’re missing it. Simply feel as you say something negative about yourself, and something positive. Notice how it feels, and listen to the sensation. Allow all of life to be so simple, cry out, punching bag out, run out, scream out - whatever our style - but let it out with certainty. Where you’re at is too much for one to bare and resolve alone, because your primary paint of your suffering is the topic of Alone. It’s toooo much. People can be helpful too you know. Perhaps that’s what you stand to discover so innocently. But we’re all here, and you are not alone. You are choosing the perspectives of this, because it seems the hurt is too much to revisit. That is a misunderstanding, which you could do without recreating anymore. If you’d like to chat lightly, nothing heavy introspective, just an experience of a different perspective, I’m up for that today. If not, at least consider why you would not accept the ear of one who lived through the hell. I created it too. I didn’t know either. Either way, thank you very much. I am most appreciative of you.

Jeffery Martin says it's about 1%, maybe he is wrong. Pretty much no awakened people are talking about what you are talking about so yes. Maybe if you want to access the deepest experiences and understanding you need to alter your neurotransmitters. However, this is one aspect of spirituality and most people doing spiritual work are into enlightenment AKA having persistent shifts that stick with you and will reduce your suffering even when you stop meditating. I know how amazing psychedelics and their afterglow feels but it always ends and we're back to the normal state of suffering and dissatisfaction. You just seem to have unusual goals as a spiritual seeker. I don't think there is the one right way to be spiritually, we can do whatever we want.

Hearing constant news of people and even in music of the change of era that is coming, and more and more spiritual people and Spiritual music talk about a gradual awakening of more and more people and finally all of humans living in an absolute awakened state. The change of era is supposed to be going from era of pisces (fish) to the era of acuarius. And this is supposed to bring immense developments in medicine and also worldwide peace. Moreover I hear about talks of an ascenscion from 3d to 5d. Basically apart from these assumptions is life under a divine plan or is it happening totally randomly? If there is a plan who would chime in on these ideas above mentioned?

That is pretty funny cuz i also had an awakening experience to the no-self or in other words the nothingness doing just 2 days self-inquiry. If i manged to surrender to the nothingness i might became awakened.

@Gili Trawangan In Adyashanti's "Enlightenment Unfolding" he discusses post awakening pitfalls. It's an excellent guide for the awakened seeker.

I don't know how to explain this, but... why are you guys comparing yourself to the Prophets? Jesus and Buddha etc. All based on pure assumptions.. Here's what they've got to say; 14:11 Their messengers said to them: "True, we are human like yourselves, but Allah does grant His grace to such of his servants as He pleases. It is not for us to bring you an authority except as Allah permits. And on Allah let all men of faith put their trust." They are the chosen ones. The prophets and the messengers. If I'm not mistaken, there's over 100 000 prophets (in the past). Apart from these, there are many saints. Some we know of, some we don't. There are many scriptures, scrolls and Tablets. But the last one is the Quran. It is full circle. My guru says, their levels, cannot be compared to those that came after them. It is not the same. ....... Upon reading this thread, what comes to mind is, what is the purpose of enlightenment to everyone? Why do people wanna get awakened/enlightened? What's the roots?

Atoms and matter could have the potential to rewire 'thinking matter' is a possibilité It could be that matter itself "think". There is no problem with thinking. The problem is a wrong use of thinking. As everything expand. Could be that our mind itself work like a Galaxy expanding itself Thinking alone can be more strong than psychedelics. I awakened through asking god to give me truth or kill me. I was not sayin it like I like cake. I got energic rush and a crisis for week. Then I stop to overthink because it was just obvious then than most of our discussion are so distant and relative. I just stopped After realizing some new Logic way to perceive reality. Good thoughts are gods. People who still believe we are méta in sayin we are god. You Lost in your own concept. We are nature if you prefer. And so whatever the force who created reality. This force is us. We are the création of god. But god is so god that you're him aswell. If thoughts was truly useless. Then you say that god made a misstake of them. Spiritual ego ain't real. I would tend to believe that there is 'no free will'. By law of physics. But as an human it almost cannot be explain. If you enlighten It's only by nature will. You're a spectator of reality and self. Movie and arts are gods facets. God is a vidéo game and a movie and you're the player walking on his own record. There is no outside reality outside your life expérience. We are all drifting and it doesn't matter to choose right or left. Because the ultimate choice of your mind. That's why a character in Batman choose to throw a coin for each décisions. But even this sort of action is a choice not relevant of your choice. You cannot beat your own mind codes. You can hack/understand yourself but each one his movie. You can maybe writte your futur. But all projection for a futur all this. Where does it Come ? Like if I wanted to be king. Why is this thought in me ? Why do I désire ? All thoughts of shaping reality. This so call'd free will. But all your désire are not yours. They are gods. Hence. You have free will from the perspective of the mind. But in depth nothing here is yours. Not even your ego. by others understanding of the dynamics of reality I m almost sure that all I m his a spectator in his tunnel universe. Meeting others Galaxy. Does Galaxy have free will/ free thought ? I think the answer give truth to 'what you are' But you can try to beat the wheel. Free thought or not. Both are 'delusion' depending : what you/I mean by delusion or the relative concept of free will that we all sort of believe in. I was litteraly asking what am I and what is this fuck ? ( Very intensively After hours of méditation and hard seccion of weed & thinking )

Spiritually gifted folk. You can meet them in various spiritual circles. Healers, psychics, masters, yogis, sages, prodigies, shamans, witches, channelers, saints, etc. It's a combination of factors: diligence, discipline, willpower, passion, focus ability, existential curiosity, openmindedness, baseline level of consciousness, appropriate personality type, and more. Notice, it's much easier to stick with a technique when is produces immediate significant results. Some people sit down to meditate and start having mystical experiences within days or weeks. This of course makes it much easier to stick with the habit compared to a person who meditates for 3 years and doesn't have a single mystical experience. I've met people who've sat down for one weekend, did 2 days of self-inquiry and awakened. That's totally unusual results. The average person can self-inquiry for 5 years and still not awaken. And it has to be this way. Otherwise half the people on the planet would be awake, but less than 0.0001% are. So you need some explanation for why that is. The explanation cannot just be that they're lazy or uninformed.

Of course you are welcome, there are not right from wrongs and ultimately non-duality is to simply show you who and what you are, that's when you have AWAKENED but you are still not Enlightened. You only become Enlightened when you remember how to walk and live the path you chose through duality/trinity. Most people think when they experience oneness they are automatically enlightened. No, This is incorrect sorry to say. The key is to master this so you can find the (balance-point) between non-dual and dual thus you live AS the Trinity. Many beings get caught up in the "non-dual state" instead of remembering why they chose to be dual in the first place, when they remember and walk the dual state with non-dual awareness, the trinity is expressed. That is when you truly become Enlightened, when you are fully immersed in duality yet simultaneously aware of oneness of all things. This is when you are truly alive, beauty is everpresent, divinity is everpresent. This is when you are god in human form, this is when you have become a True Enlightened Master. Excuse my way of verbal expression. I believe i could of expressed or written it better, i am sure someone can explain it to you in simpler detail and terms but as of right now this is how its all coming out so i hope it makes sense, at least in some way/shape/form. All the best

@Bryanbrax Psychedelics help inhibit areas of brain that give one a sense of self. Similarly, people with traumas to those brain areas sometimes get same effect, and I know a couple of people with conditions like Multiple Sclerosis that got awakened from the neurological changes in the brain tissue due to the condition.

@SoonHei hmmm My guru's highest wisdom is fear. I had awakened to infinite love last November. That was caused by fear. (Because of a dream) In between the two is knowledge. Without knowledge you won't fear. You can shuffle all three~ »Go look up Dhūl-Nūn al-Misry«

From my understanding in old days title Guru was given to people who where Awakened. They teach only few selected students. And Acharya is one who is well versed in a skill that he teaches, it maybe yoga, astronomy astrology,fighting,using weapons etc. But now these titles dosent mean anything you can find many fake people using Guru and Acharya in front or back of name.

Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard etc. were basically existentialists. They talked about these same topics because existentialism is just that - philosophy of human existence. But it's still philosophy. Still thinking. They understood nothingness but never witnessed it. Berkeley was awakened for sure. Also I think Spinoza got it too.

None of those folks were awakened except the Buddha. It's very rare for a Western philosopher to be awakened. Heraclitus, Plotinus, Berkeley, and Hegel were some of the few I think were awakened. Buddha-nature/Buddha-mind is God. Nirvana is God.

Philosophy is just mental masturbation, none of them were actually awakened. That requires going withing and doing self-inquiry, among other things. Buddha knew very well that God existed but he had his good reasons why he didn't discuss it.

If many greatest philosophers of last centuries were awakened (presumably were coz to write metaphysics etc one must be awakened to the true nature of reality), why then many of them were atheists? Let’s say Sartre who wrote ‘Being and Nothingness’, Camus seemed to be awakened, Nietzsche who claimed his awakening in Zarathustra and many many others. All were atheists though discussed God, Being, Nothingness a lot. If let’s say awakening equals God-realisation then what made them to deny God after awakening? And what does their denial mean? If we go further why Buddha also denied discussion of God if awakening = God?

So i just stumbled upon this guy called "David Goggins", and watched this interview: Pretty cool interview and all, but what would happen if this guy awakened to the truth? I honestly don't feel like he did all of this, if anything out of pure authenticity. It seems like he's been through a lot of pain, and ran away from it like a madman, and i feel like that's the only thing that fueled him to get to this place. He definitely looks healthy and young for his age, but i don't know about his psychological state. I think he's holding up a big mask. I mean, the title of his book is called "can't hurt me". That doesn't sound healthy to me at all. What do you think?

It's encouraging that there are those who are awakened enough so are aware of the absolute nonsense of it. Liberation from self suffering is a simple expression of being present, all this chatter serves as more of a distraction from it than a guide to it.