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Ah, I think I'm on this same page. Just confused as to why anyone claims to know anything, then, even with respect to enlightenment? Just a note: She does seem largely dualistic and parts of Atlas Shrugged make it clear she didn't really understand philosophies like Advaita Vedanta and erroneously assumed that they are 100% illogical and baseless. You may have read some of her nonfiction - so have I. However, I am not as quick to completely debase her, especially in terms of how to create an economy and behaivoral expectations of individuals (or distinct experiences of the one Self, in terms of nonduality). Basically, her systems thinking is interesting to me. I should note that I am not supporting the unhinged capitalism so many people (incorrectly) think Rand raves about. It would be interesting to talk to you and others who so strongly rebuke her about the actual plots of her novels and their implications, bad and good. Also, Rand died of heart failure. Not suicide. So.... weird that Osho claimed suicide.

a slightly different metaphysics than idealism, Spinoza proposed that there was a singular substance which exhibited both the qualities of consciousness and the qualities of matter. It's called neutral monism, and seems to me to be another way of philosophically interpreting the experience of nonduality, besides idealism.

That is the core lesson of mysticism: reality is irreducibly mystical. You cannot know the Absolute because knowledge is a 2nd order process. Being is prior to knowing. You can BE the Absolute rather than knowing it. Or you can know that it is unknowable. Which is what Osho is describing. Nonduality means that knowing must collapse into being. Which is why the ultimate Truth cannot be spoke, thought, or symbolized. All symbols are too indirect. You must directly become the being of which all symbols are made. Language and thought must be entirely transcended. The Truth is beyond thought, imagination, or even your mind. Ayn Rand was of course an arrogant, egoistical, dualistic, stage Orange fool. The hallmark of the ego-mind is that it thinks it can know everything through linear reason. And in this it is deluded beyond hope.

Anyone have suggestions for contemplative meditation questions? Things that are both in support of nonduality and things that seem threatening to it (the latter of which I don't expect any answers to haha). Thinking stuff along the lines of "What is a thought?" "What is your self?" Thanks in advance

No self, not Self / nonduality (a guess). Some remarkable afterglows. Always loved him. Would love to talk with him for a bit.

You'd be surprised who you can meet. I met a guy in a dragon ball z FB fan group that had ideas I only learned when I got into nonduality. Hes only heard of nonduality when I mentioned it but a lot of his ideas are getting close to those levels of contemplation. Amazing what you can achieve on your 'own'

^^ this I have similar problem too. Here all the spiritual ppl are either ppl into yoga (most havent heard about nonduality) or the haru krishna/some indian devotee ppl. Those are the worst since they wont even allow discussion and only see their word as the Truth. I wonder if it would be a good idea to attempt to make nondual groups to attract people

@Aaron p Google nonduality, nonduality coaches, etc.

@Aaron p Not sure about Ireland but there are tons of nondual groups in London I'm sure. What you're looking for is nonduality. Or maybe some kind of meditative yoga center. Not Hatha yoga but serious Indian meditative yoga like Kundalini yoga, Kriya yoga, etc. In Vegas we have a pretty good Indian yoga center. But that will vary a lot city to city. Usually you have to travel to find good nondual teachers. Isn't Rupert Spira in the UK? That might be your best bet. I've traveled to far away places to seek out the best teachers. It is worth it. In the old days folks would fly to India. Also Sadhguru has yoga initiations in London I'm sure. Maybe even Ireland.

That's a good question. I imagine my talks will be in the vein of Actualized.org videos. With some new helpful in-person group exercises which would be focused on raising general consciousness & self awareness. This would be useful for all people across the board, basically delving you into consciousness work. I don't think we'd directly work on life purpose, but consciousness work will help with all your goals, from career to relationships to spirituality. We would probably be exploring topics like emotional mastery, fear, judgment, confidence, self-esteem, self-deception, spirituality, meditation techniques, body awareness, nonduality, shadow work, motivation, getting unstuck, etc.

You cannot invalidate Truth. That's the trick! Lol Nothing the materialist can do will undermined nonduality. In fact, the entire universe could explode tomorrow and nonduality would still hold. That's the value of nonduality. It's FOREVER! If it could be undermined by some silly materialist's scientific discovery it wouldn't be worth talking about. You cannot apply relativistic standards of falsification to the Absolute! You can discover the Absolute for yourself. But you cannot ever falsify it. Because it is true, absolutely.

More nonduality elitists flocking there feathers. Yes I get it, in your “world” cancer doesn’t exist, it’s all labels and illusions. People starving to death, it’s all labels and illusions and distortions of reality. Labels don’t mean anything. We can all blabber like infants cause it doesn’t matter. If you’re just going to regurgitate non duality theory just to explain everything as lazily and sloppily as you are, please don’t contribute. I’m not asking lazily for someone to contemplate for me. If a child on the street here’s the term PTSD, there’s nothing wrong with that child asking “hey does PTSD mean? Does it mean the same thing as depression?” It does help to have someone at least give you some sort of description of what it is that’s being spoken.

However you describe "Emotional Mastery", it is *within* everything. It is within "enlightenment". Could "Emotional Mastery" lead to this awakening? Sure, it could be one of many inputs that contributes to the awakening. It could also be a distraction to the awakening. In general, I've found that relaxing the personality allows for a mind in which the awakening process can flourish. I've found activities such as meditation, yoga and listening to nonduality teachers help to relax my personality. In contrast, attachments/identification to ideas, worries, analyzing, conceptualizing etc. stimulate my personality and is a distraction to the awakening process. The sneaky part here is that "spiritual concepts" can seem so "good", so "healthy" and it's easy to believe in them - which is a distraction. To me, "Emotional Mastery" has a control feature to it that I would consider a trap. Who is doing the "Mastering"? Well, probably a fragment of the self. I suppose it could lead to progress for self improvement or early stages of awakening. Yet, at intermediate and advanced stages, I would consider it more of a hindrance. One reaches a stage in which it becomes about self dissolution, not self mastery.

@kieranperez I feel exactly the same way. I still have some remnants of Orange in me. I still struggle to be open minded about unscientific things, and find it hard to get out of a competitive mentality. Overall though, Ive been having some decent progress. For me, the main thing Ive been wanting to tackle is my vehemency with materialism, I need to let go of it, and I will, slowly but surely. When it comes to making friends, I think that as long as youre open minded and youre able to communicate to them that you are open to the ideas that come along with spirituality, nonduality, and so on, they will be willing to hang out with you, share, and raise your vibration along with them. I, for instance, probably 80% Green 20% Orange, have two close people that are at least 100% Green, if not 50% Yellow and 50% Green.

Sounds like my situation. As for me, quite many shifts have happened in a short amount of time. When I thought I was learning from nonduality, I was not. And now I've gathered so much information from just two goddamn books. It feels so obvious how things should be in my experience and still I'm somewhere in the intermediate space. I don't care much about that ego's life and that makes me challenge almost every aspect there is to care about. Life seems to have been nonsensical service for some illusory self and its fleeting needs, but now it seems nonsensical whatsoever. There is not so much to do in life and similar kind of things continue day after day. I feel like I'm not so inspired of that but somehow consciousness is what it is, and everything satisfies it because it IS everything. But I can't see myself as consciousness get to that. It just seems so vain, in a neutral kind of way. Maybe I've stumbled on my intellect this time.

This is a really good example of how models suck at representing reality. Seems to be a double edged sword, based on the context, the individual and however its ripple effects dance around in the universe. Let's not paint schizophrenia as if it is a good disorder for everyone - I am sure it can be embraced by certain individuals - but the overall effect on people seems to be of pain on people. Statistically higher suicide rates, high rates of smoking, etc. That said, I believe there are just shades of schizophrenia like there are shades of everything else - everything is blurry anyway. Three of my siblings have had schizophrenia and I've always intuited that there was a dream-like quality to the world. Perhaps a mild form of schizophrenia(ish) jumpstarted my inquiry into nonduality. I believe there is a connection. Some excellent systems thinking and deep insights about conciousness could potentially be used to tackle this issue (aka we need turquoise people, according to your model).

I was so concentrating on the benefits of no self/nonduality, that I hadn't really considered what the major downsides could be. Is it possible for my family to think I've snapped and gone fully mental, and having me committed for help. When really I'm just now nonduel and no longer fit into the box if what is considered normality. My family has dealt with schizophrenia, when I beloved childhood friend ended up shooting himself when the schizophrenia got too severe for him. So it's not outside the realm of possibility. I could be viewed as 'lost it' and get committed. And once in the system, it's hard to get out, unless you can get back to acting like you're within the box of what's considered normality. Why am I trying to do this again? Hahaha.

For me, when experience stops being projected on top of “each moment” that is what this “nonduality” points too.

There is value in talking about it so as to point out all the traps, explain the techniques, clear up egoic confusion, and inspire/motivate people into action. But philosophizing, speculating, or debating about nonduality is counter-productive.

I feel ya. To me it’s worth talking about duality, self, thought as process/movement, as thought/self and thoughts-feelings/emotions and how they are related to form certain experiences. But to talk about enlightenment/nonduality does serve the self/ego and is to work within the narrrow structure/pattern of thought/self/duality.

It seems that my non-dual experience was more like a glimpse into the beginning of nonduality then, and that's why it's hard to understand, since I've never directly experienced the way you're describing. The distinction between Self, other and environment was much more difficult to see, but I still retained individuality. Speaking to other felt as speaking to other even if physically the boundaries were not as apparent. Note: Maybe the experience I had was really meant to highlight the illusion of associating with ego and body, and instead to associate with awareness itself. This is what stuck out most to me, and the fading of borders was more of a preview.

I am Muslim like You and version of Islam of our parents are not what Islam of our prophet Muhammad but the Islam of lustful, greedy, power hungry, super-egoic Monarchs the way Catholics and Protestants were in History. Read Karen Armstrong a former catholic nun but very tolerant and loving person re-telling of the story of true struggles of our prophet who was for decades trying to spread hippie message of oneness, love and nonduality to the aggressive Arabian tribes but circumstances forced him to fight back, This will teach you essence of Islam and relief this deep ingrained part of your ego that is stained with religion that blocks your advance in life. Also, Loneliness is not real, its just your ego exaggerates the transformation period and is currently fighting you and does not wanting to let go. I certainly have suffered through this but understood that it was a lie. I now enjoy being alone because I get shit done and I feel constant state of flow. I still can hang out with people, but depends on people type. Most people I know like family members are like scheming courtiers who are masters are energy draining and subtle statements and questions and that are like knifes cutting right through my psyche reviving the underdeveloped beast and extreme phobias and self-doubts and self-consciousness nature in me that I am trying to get rid of. I honestly don't know you, but I believe if you could find the right people to hang out with, you have achieved what most people couldn't. If you want to hang out with people then develop the skill of acute observation without judgement or moralization and reading the true hidden meaning of what others say and what their body language conveys. You better accept being alone and practice loving yourself with all your heart and extend that love to others, this will heal your ego and ease letting go of need to be in control and surrounded with unconscious people who will generally do much damage to you in much subtler ways.

Many gods and all is god within nonduality dont conflict. They only appear to too you.

There is a much more fundamental problem here: how does anything work? Like seriously. Like what is your explanation for why you don't fall through the floor of your room? Think about it. What is an explanatory framework at all? And how much does it really explain? Nonduality reveals that all the workings of the universe are spontaneously self-manifesting beyond explanation. Or, in other words: the universe is fundamentally, irreducibly mystical, or mysterious. At rock bottom everything is consciousness and consciousness interacts with the only thing there is: it self!

Interesting way to see it. Given the use of psychedelics in many cultures it seems that nonduality is everywhere just being expressed in different ways, but viewing a nondual perspective from a dual perspective is like looking at one sided glass from the blind side. And so modern society can tend to screw up many interpretations. Given that hermetic philosophy was also around in Greece it would make sense for the Greek Gods to be personification for your usual people to relate to.