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So you had ego death, you got immersed in the nothingness but only that, nothingness...how finished that process? Ego death every day? In what circumstances?

I tried with a trip sitter but I didn't feel relaxed, and I haven't the breakthrough...I guess that increasing the dose at the end happens. At the end I did alone smoking 5 mg, and thinking, let's enjoy of the effect of 5 mg, after another 5, and I thought...it's almost, let's stop and another day I'll do...but at the end I thought another day is never, and I was like high with the other 10 so I smoked another 5 and I had that breakthrough that you read. It was the first ego death in my life and as I experienced only the nothingness I got like horror feeling at the end, when the "I" started to come back. I'm sure that for many people that nothingness could be really beautiful. Now I think I'm going to go to that nothingness until I love the nothingness, I'm not looking for god experience for now, if comes, cames, I want experience that nothingness that scared me until I love it. Good luck with your trip! I recommend you to do, even it's a bad trip it's a huge teaching

@Breakingthewall I felt the presence of the infinite consciousness and smoked a blunt to "come down". It resulted in a spike in prana in my whole body, started and i paniked for hours. The next 6 months i had involuntary ego deaths everyday. Ego deaths were existential torture. Those 6 months were my dark night of the soul. Also called DP/DR After every ego death came the classic nothingness (as explained by shinzen young).

What is the dark night of the soul? What trauma brought you the nothingness? Could you explain?

Hello, I want a God-Awakening. Something is building up in my consciousness right now, I believe that I am close to an awakening, and I am looking for self inquiry methods specific for God. I would like to access "Access concentration" everytime before I do self inquiry. So I'd love to use a method that can be used while being in that deep state of concentration. Somehow I never got the awakening I wanted. The nothingness came because of a trauma, when I tried to focus on the nothingness I got the infinite consciousness and spent days without ego, and when I tried to meditate on inf. Consciousness I had a spontaneous kundalini awakening. Now unfortunately I cannot get those awakenings to come up regularly again, and would like to realize I am god. What can I do during meditation to find HIM. I am going to do that for 30 days and see what happens. I can't use psychedelics, because those might shoot me in the dark night of the soul again. I'm going to keep you posted.

@gswva Nope, you got it slightly mixed up Nothingness is the ONLY thing that exists, it's the only possible thing. Non-existence can't exist (by definition). Consciousness exists as the only thing that exists, because it IS everything. Don't just build a theoretical philosophy out of these kind of statements (or out of anything that you hear from Leo or anyone else) it's not in the least bit useful.

@PopoyeSailor This is an awesome summary. Thank you for sharing so many ideas. Seeking truth seems to be an awkward inquiry. If all is love, then abstractly thinking about it is obviously a distasteful approach, but in other hand if this is a permanent fall, then a conscious choice is appreciated. It could be impossible to share how unrestricted awareness feels about itself, since the liberation of our own selfish biases leads to the lack of desire, including the will of sharing this information within ourselves, at least if we assume that consciousness can't be anything else but totally accepting. We can predict that if God were unsatisfied, that there are issues inherent to its own existence, it would reject itself or not become conscious in the first place, but this isn't guaranteed to be possible since this undermine one of the only truth we have right now, that "it" "is". We usually assume "being love" as the only source of happiness, but it could be confused with the very act of breaking through fears, which would be its own reward. Nothingness could lack such feelings. As in, being a completely blank indifferent creator and not feeling anything from it. We can't even know what's the most transcendent intention of kindness between selfishness and selflessness, since both "feel good" in their own way. Well, I'm not trying to shape random conspiracy theories against spirituality, but I just want to be exhaustive. Enlightened people can't prove anything to sleepy dreamers beside saying that this is obviously nonsense. That's said, it's likely that awakening is permanent for the same reason this fearless "state" is where happiness is maximized for the Self. Yes, in a sense we can say that there is no such thing as an universe being imagined right now. Our own desire for a dream within a set of consistent rules creates this projection. We usually like stability and the lack of logical contradictions since it reinforces the idea that our fated escape is leading somewhere, Brahman has no other choice than accepting it. Interesting analogy. Some understandings about the structure of life are useful if we want to know what's best between endless dreams or infinite nothingness. While it's hard to make an accurate sampling of all dreams, and even harder to measure their "awesomeness" since it would be estimated within the lens of our survival biases, it's possible than most of them end after some threshold of love/fear is reached, such as the experience can not be too good or too bad without melting back into Oneness. Yet it doesn't make sense because it would imply the existence of some mathematical distribution beyond the scope of logic, and that the knowledge gap of karmas racing against their own self-entanglement isn't uniform, which is impossible to say. Then it doesn't explain how it is possible for us to understand anything, or how lucky we have to be in order to even understand this. Avoiding waking up might as well be a completely foolish idea or a genius take, I'm not sure of anything. Personally, I will probably be pursuing enlightenment since there is no telling how incredible it is to be in a dream where fear can be recognized as the tearing fault. More convoluted incarnations will only feel hopeless and useless as long as the maximum amount of kindness isn't squeezed out of them. Dreams are only beautiful thanks to the benediction of Love. But then it could be a funny (or horrible) idea to keep accumulating fear in order to make better fireworks. Some speculative reasons for the apparition of jivas: - Part of the birth process of God, which is infinite, therefore this process is endless - Process inherent to the creation of the highest love, required to reach other deeply buried jivas themselves - Divisible bits of awareness trying to escape or falling out of sync, because Oneness is hell and all lies, or whatever unknown reason - In the opposite way, overflow of love are looping back into dreams - Or I'm just alone with extreme schizophrenia I've always found the way consciousness store information really intriguing. Intuitively, I have initially thought that all form that is, is all that is aware. But some people report experiencing the void/emptiness in their trip and coming back from it to their previous human dream. I doubt the relationship between love/fear, form and awareness can be too complicated. One simple explanation is that since God is infinite, it doesn't need to store anything because it already stores everything, including the most nonsensical conscious states. But then it doesn't explain how everything was created at once, through a selective process. I have overlooked the simplicity of God's design. You are right. Since the mechanism of incarnation itself is within a dream, all possible models we can make about it are theoretically possible. I made a another schema based on that without superfluous content.

Nothingness, as formless awareness, is impossible, therefore it doesn't exist. Consciousness can not not be because it never existed in the first place. It all makes sense now.

Beautiful and probably true...for now for me is enough to know that god isn't a prisoner in an eternal jail of loneliness, nothingness and desperation...was not a nice image, but was me, the ego, trembling in front of the eternity...thanks to god wasn't god. Thanks you all for the help, I was really desperate hehe

Of course - in a sense - God has a plan for everyone (everyone is Him/Her), cos God is all-knowing, omnipotent. But the metaplan is just God/Nothingness/Love itself. So void of ground, it is infinite. The ground of being is groundlessness.

@Dazgwny @WaveInTheOcean the problem wasn't the terror. The problem was that , if no one tell me the opposite and I believe, after the experience I absolutely thought that I saw the deep reality, and it was: I'm an human, deeply I'm like a being, and this being is in the infinite nothingness for the eternity, alone. I'm sure that I didn't surrender to the nothingness, because it's a repulse. But when I was there looks like pure nothingness, no thought, empty. Now I'm starting to remember that the nothingness wasn't "good" or "bad" I was dissolved and was nothing. But after a while I started to feel again who I am and I thought: nooooo, all except this! And after I was in my room again. It was a huge teaching, today I was meditating and my meditation was easier and more silently than ever, my breath remembered me to the void. So not so bad at the end, my ego is strong, I know that, I need control , the opposite of the dissolution. But this ego is going to surrender, maybe soon maybe late

Language is a consensus. Each word is a label/symbol. In order for language to work, we must first agree on what aspects of our direct experience we are going to apply a particulat label or not. The label/symbol itself is greatly arbitrary. A cat doesn't look like the word "cat". It's just something we agree upon because it's useful. This consensus is imperfect for two reasons: - Many objects are going to share the same label (all the "cats" in the world, we call them like that). - And more importantly, there will be disagreements on wether some things diserve that label or not (which is why in this forum people discuss things like if we should say reality is everythingness/nothingness/both/whatever). Because of this two factors, we cannot convey absolute truth (direct experience) using language. When we use language, if we both agree that it corresponds with our direct experience we will say it's a true. But a third person may not agree with our use of labels and consider it false, this happens because it dependends on our prior consensus, which is imperfect. Therefore, a statement being true/false is relative. These disagreements happen all the time in everyday life, so it's not about being "overly-techincal". What counts as "cheating in a relationship" for example, is not the same for everyone. . For some a kiss will be chating, and for some only sex will be cheating. People use labels differently This happens because what we are transmitting is not our direct experience. I hope this helps .

The ego has yet to surrender to Love and its own unreality. Takes time, takes more consciousness work. It's a sneaky trick of the ego. It senses its obliberation, and pulls up a last resort trick: "perhaps everything is false/nothing/unreal: but <I> must be true, I exist, me me me! And see what you have done to me by engaging in psychedelics and spirituality and seeing everything is unreal (except me ofc!): I've become depressed by it, stop, stop!" You were just as much God during the peak of 5-MeO as you are now. You're never not God. Only God is! 5-meo "merely" expanded your consciousness as God. "Its what I experienced. only was the nothingness, and me. I'm the only being that exist, alone, in the nothingness" What do you mean when you say "I experienced" : can you show me this "I" ? You say you were the only being existing, alone, but where is this 'being' you speak of? What is it made of? You cannot have 'up' without 'down' -- can you have "me" or "I" or "self" without "other" ? Contemplate.

If isness is only nothing, then you're right. No words can ever describe nothing (except the word nothing ). But luckily isness is everything too, therefore the distinctions are true and included in isness. So you have nothing and you have everything as two different things, yet at the same time only one thing. This paradox allows for both correct and incorrect interpretations. Someone may be identified only with nothing and then deny the everythingness of reality, and someone else may do the opposite and identify only with everything and then deny nothingness. Wouldn't you say that that would be a misinterpretation of isness? And that the only true interpretation has to be that nothing = everything, necessarily?

I may have misinterpreted on that one. For me, this gets super tricky. If there is a truth prior to language, evidence or interpretation - how can my mind conceive of it without language, evidence or interpretation. The best we could do is say “It’s just ISness”. Yet what it the substance of that ISness and how can we describe it without language, evidence or interpretation. Imagine you have lost all of your senses and cannot imagine. You are in a space of aware Nothingness - not even a thought or image. What ISness is here? Thinking “this is an empty space of Nothing” is something - it’s a thought. What is objective and universal in this environment? Objective relative to what? I’m not necessarily disagreeing that you are describing a truth and an important truth - especially in today’s society with so many people creating their own narratives of their relative truth. Yet I wouldn’t term it “absolute truth”. And what is the point of reference of this thing you call an “apple”? Is it not a diffuse cloud of atoms indistinguishable from the “tree”? What is the objective, universal truth of what you call an “apple”? This is why I included the term “external”. You seem to be suggesting that there is an innate truth “out there”, independent of an internal perceiver.

Its what I experienced. only was the nothingness, and me. I'm the only being that exist, alone, in the nothingness, in the eternity of the no time. I didn't see any imagination, only the nothingness, the absolute lonely. When I hadp pass to this world again, I felt: it's horrible, I'm god , and god is alone and can't escape of being god. Could god be like "desperate" or anything negative? Could god be triying to forget that is god and is alone in the nothingness? There was no love there, only nothingness, eternity. That's why my experience was so bad. I was god, and I don't want to be conscious that I'm god, because I'm alone in the nothingness. Wasn't love, only void. Now I don't feel good, I'm trying to accept the nothingness, to live again that void, but something inside me impulse me to do things, to meet people, to drink, to stay far of the void, difficult to sleep well or being alone. Well only was 2 nights ago. But now I remember clearly the void. Wasn't horrible by itself. The horrible was just when I pass to here. I felt oh no, I'm prisoner of myself, no escape for the eternity. Maybe I'm creating that illusion to forget that horror

I wrote this short story a while ago. The story is metaphorical in nature. I hope you will find yourself somewhere in the story. Enjoy! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Once upon a time, somewhere in Middle Earth, there existed one miraculous tree. The tree was so beautiful, so breathtaking, that it took the breath away of every spirit that laid eyes on this tree of miracles. The tree knew not what to do with the breath of the spirit, so it gave the breath back to the spirit. When the breath returned to the spirit, it gave it life. The tree made the spirit alive. Thus, they called this tree that gave life, the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life was grand and miraculous. There are no words that could ever describe the grandeur that existed on the Tree of Life. One could only say that the Tree of Life was truly miraculous. Life was its greatest miracle. The Tree of Life was so phenomenal that it created the life of many phenomena. In the beginning, the tree was not alive, but since it gave the gift of life to all forms, the Tree of Life itself became alive. The Tree of Life created life forms in many shapes and sizes. It housed many plants and animals. Everything alive lived on the Tree of Life. Around the tree trunk, many serpents dwelled. The serpents hid where all the darkness of life beheld. The crown of the tree exposed all other animals. In the crown of the tree was where all other animals lived. There were elephants that weighed a ton and birds that flew in a flock of one. All life was created to live on the Tree of Life. The location of the tree was uncertain. Some say that the Tree of Life was located between everything and nothing. Other, more certain voices said that the tree existed somewhere between Heaven and Hell. Nobody knew everything, so nobody knew the exact location of the tree. Some said that the Tree of Life extended its roots all the way down to Hell. Its crown, on the other hand, extended high up all the way to the heavens. Between Heaven and Hell, life was to be lived on the Tree of Life. The outer parts of the tree were bathing in the sunrays of the mighty sun. The inner parts of the tree were enveloped in shadows. The deeper one went down the tree, the more darkness he saw. The lower someone went, the darker the tree shadow became. The greater the tree, the bigger the shadow. The Tree of Life was so great that its shadow extended indefinitely into nothingness. All life forms that lived in the shadows, lived in darkness of their ignorance. In eternal darkness, they suffered the lack of light. On the outskirts of the Tree of Life, however, lived many life forms that could glimpse the light of the mighty sun. Only on the edge of the Tree of Life, the light shined brightly. Only on the verge of the Tree of Life, one could see the new frontiers. Only on the edge of life, one could see what lies beyond the Tree of Life. The opportunity to glimpse beyond the Tree of Life was given to the few lucky animals that were born to escape their darkness. On the outer bounds of the tree, there lived many animal forms. Among them, the birds soared the highest. The birds lived high up the tree and they only wished to be free. There were many species of birds, but the highest among them were the eagles. The eagles saw the light, they saw the goodness, but they also saw many upheavals. The highest among the birds were the eagles. The highest eagle among all the eagles was the bald eagle. One day, one bald eagle became discontented with all the shadows and darkness that existed on the Tree of Life. The bald eagle started to despise all the contents of the mighty Tree of Life. With immense baldness, the bald eagle one day decided to leap out of the tree and fly into new lands. The bald eagle decided to leave the Tree of Life. He wished to seek a new light. With a giant leap, the bald eagle left the Tree of Life and flew into the unknown. For seven days he ventured into the wide skies and saw blue oceans with its own eyes. For seven long days, the bald eagle journeyed into different coasts and he saw the shadows of many ghosts. For seven long days, the bald eagle was missing from the Tree of Life, but on the seventh day, he returned back to the tree. There was only one thing in the world that the bald eagle wanted more than to be free. The bald eagle more than his own freedom wished to give freedom to all the other life forms on the Tree of Life. The bald eagle wished to discover the nature of the self. The more he discovered the self, the more selfless he became. Eventually, he became so selfless that he forgot that he was a bald eagle. Beyond the nature of the self, the bald eagle discovered the beauty and freedom that existed beyond Life. Through his death, he learned how to discover the beauty of life. Once discovered, the bald eagle wished to share the truth, the beauty with all the other eagles. Many times the bald eagle left the Tree of Life, but he always returned. Upon his return, he shared his words; he shared his wisdom with all the other eagles. The bald eagle tried to describe his visions, but all he did was to create new divisions. The bald eagle told the other eagles about the sights that exist beyond the Tree of Life. He told them about the new conditions that exist beyond their traditions. But the words that the bald eagle spoke fell on deaf ears. The other eagles didn’t believe the Bald One because he always disappeared. The eagles believed only in that which appeared. Only their own appearances became real to them. Everything else remained unreal. Their whole lives, the eagles knew nothing other than the Tree of Life. The Tree was their Life. They held onto the Tree for dear life. Nobody believed the bald eagle. But the bald eagle was bold. He did not get discouraged. In other’s disbelief, he found his own courage. Thus, the bald eagle roved between the Tree of Life and the unknown. What he found could not be shown. The eagle flew alone, but every seventh day he returned to the Tree of Life, which now became his throne. The bald eagle foretold his tales, again and again. He shared his truth with the other eagles, but his Truth was only his own. All other eagles lived in their own zone. For many years the bald eagle came and went from the Tree of Life. He told many unbelievable stories about life and light. He told stories that other eagles couldn’t believe. But eventually, his persistence paid off. After many years, his words intrigued few other eagles that became curious about the nature of life beyond the Tree of Life. Few golden eagles left their nests, and in the land of the unknown became new guests. The golden eagles joined the Bald One, for they too wished to know what hides behind the drape. Eventually, more and more eagles started to leave the Tree of Life and beyond life they sought their escape. The golden eagles came and went. They followed the steps of the Bold One. Some golden eagles got lost into some golden treasures, but the bald eagle always returned. No matter how far he went, the Bold One always returned to tell the other eagles about the beauty that exists beyond the Tree of Life. Every seventh day, on a Sunday, when the God of creation rested, the bald eagle came back to give rest to the restless souls that lived on the Tree of Life. He told many stories with great conviction, and his stories became ever more convincing. His voice became louder and deeper. One day his voice became so loud and deep that all the eagles on the tree could hear the stories of the bald eagle. Many started to believe in his stories, but many still had doubts. The eagles that believed through their belief found the courage to take a leap out of the Tree of Life and into the unknown. To prove that they believed, they had to go beyond just a mare belief and leave the Tree of Life. The ideas that were only believed became dogma, but the ideas that were actualized became a new way of life. Only the ideas that were embodied had the potential to inspire their spirit to leave the Tree of Life. Through that potential, many eagles acquired the hidden spirit of the bald eagle and became inspired to leave the crown of life for the crowns that lie beyond life. Many types of eagles started leaving the Tree of Life. From the tree, they could only glimpse the rays of light that fell on the tree, but from beyond the tree they could see the light more clearly. From beyond the Tree of Life, they could see the pure light in all its glory. The nature of the light was quite peculiar. Only those who had seen the light, knew the light. Those who heard about the light had an idea about it, but an idea is not the same as knowing. Knowing could only be known through first-hand experience and not second-hand. Light could be only experienced and could not be shared with others. That was the peculiar nature of the Light. Another peculiar thing started to happen more and more. When the eagles left the Tree of Life and came back to the Tree, they always returned with more light than when they left. The eagles returned lighter than they used to be. Since they were lighter, they became more uplifting and started to uplift the spirits of all the other animals. The other animals that lived in the Tree of Life could not understand the language of the eagles, since all animals spoke their own language. The animals didn’t speak the eagle language, but they could feel that lightness of being that started to descend on the Tree of Life. The language of the eagles had limitations, and the biggest limitation was the fact that only eagles could only understand other eagles. When other animals heard the eagles speak, they only heard noise. Every type of animal spoke their own language. Despite the fact that all animals called the Tree of Life their home, each animal lived among their own tribe and spoke only the language of their tribe. Some eagles, taken with the beauty of the light which they witnessed outside the Tree of life, started to share the beauty beyond life with the other animals. However, all the other animals heard was an eagle screech. They only heard the harsh, piercing cry of the eagle voice and could not understand what the eagles preach. Some eagles took some snakes with their claws and flew beyond the Tree of Life, but the snakes couldn’t fly. The snakes had many flaws. The snakes had to follow the Earthly laws. The story of the light started to become prevalent among the eagles. Many eagles started to bathe in the Light of the sun. The light became so intense that the eagles started to sense the light of all the stars in the nightly skies. In the starlight they started to see their own reflection. In the light, they began to see the light that exists within their spirits. One day, like any other, the eagles made a pact among each other. One faithful day they made an agreement with all the birds of their own kind. The agreement was that the next day, on sunrise, when the light appears on the horizon, all the eagles will jump in unison and venture together to seek the light. In a flock of one, all eagles decided to leap from the Tree of Life and pursue the rays of the mighty sun. What they would find in the light they knew not, but they knew that must give it a shot. There was much uncertainty about what would happen with the Tree of Life if all eagles left at the same time. Thus far, each eagle strayed separately into the unknown. But now for the first time the eagles agreed to go together. The eagles encouraged each other to seek the light. By now they sensed what lies beyond the Tree of Life, but they knew not what would happen if all the eagles left simultaneously. The only way to find the answer was to do it. Only when they left the tree, they could see what would happen to the Tree of Life. Early the next morning, as the sun was rising from the East, the eagles sought to find their release. From the crown of the tree, they saw the new light of day and for the first time decided to leap jointly into the light. In an instant, they decided to forget the Tree of Life and seek the light. They did as they had promised. The eagles flew high into the deep blue open air. They spread their wings and started to fly towards the source of the light. The sun seemed infinitely far away, but the eagles had hopes that with great dedication, infinity is within their reach. The eagles flew for hours. The bald eagle led the pack. He soured through the resistance of the air and made the travel easier for the eagles that came behind. As the eagles traveled through the air, the sun traveled through the sky. In the wide open space where everything appeared transfixed, everything was moving slowly to its right destination. The sun was going west where it sets, and the eagles were going wherever the light of the sun took them. Long and tiring was the journey to the light. It took irrevocable commitment to seek the light. The eagles sought the light even at the cost of their lives. For days the eagles flew toward their destination that seemed forever unreachable. On the way there, they lost many lives. Many eagles got tired. Many fell from the skies into their demise. They faced many hardships and storms. In their determination to seek the light, they all conformed. With each passing day, their wings got heavier. The eagles passed through many barriers. Through the sheer determination of their will, they pushed against the winds. Some eagles cursed the day when they decided to leave the Tree of Life. Their life used to be a miracle, but now, away from the tree that gave them life, it was a miracle they are still alive. The eagles were getting closer to the light. They could see its shine, they could feel its warmth, but they could not get it swarmed. The closer they got, the further apart it seemed to move away from them. While flying through the open air, a heavy storm befell on the flock of eagles. This storm was unlike any other. The storm filled the air with darkness and completely eclipsed all the light. The eagles couldn’t see the other eagles. The darkness swallowed their hopes of reaching their destination. Their souls yearned for the light, but all they got was a dark night. A dark night of the souls befell on their shattered spirits. In complete darkness, all the eagles got lost. The next day, one eagle opened his eyes. What he saw was beyond belief. What he felt was only immense grief. The lonely eagle had lost all his brothers and sisters. The lost eagle lost track of all the other eagles. He could finally see the light in front of his own face. He saw the end of the endless race. In the end, he was the winner. He was the one who found the gateless gate, but there was nobody else there to witness his fate. The poor eagle was all alone. There was nobody there who could throw him a bone. The eagle could eat only that which he had grown. He was thrown into the unknown where he was alone. The eagle missed all the other eagles. He wondered what had happened to them. He reminisced on their fate, but he found nobody with which he could relate. There was nothing left of his previous life. Everything that the eagle had left was the purity of light that blinded his spirit. The lonely eagle wished to cry. The poor eagle wished to die. With his last breath, he gathered his last strength and plunged into the radiance of the sun. Before he merged into the light, he experienced the ultimate gaslighting. The lonely eagle finally realized the true nature of his own reality. He finally realized that no eagles ever flew in a flock. Eagles for all of eternity had always flown alone. The eagle realized that all his life; he had imagined the Tree of Life. He had imagined the company of other eagles. He imagined all miracles. The lonely eagle imagined that it was him that imagined life, and it was him that imagined his own imagination. The eagle recognized that it was him who created all the distinctions under the light of the sun. He finally remembered why he was always searching for the light. He was always searching for that which he is. There was never a Tree of Life. There was never a bald eagle. All that ever was; all there ever will be; is the Light.

Your distinction between 'being in a state nothingness' and 'being in a state of dreaming' is that: an imaginary distinction, your ego is making; trying to grasp something that it cannot grasp. Nothingness and life/dream/Maya IS completely identical. No difference at all. What you are experiencing right now is nothingness. It's absolutely nothing other than your own imagination as God. Sure, we can talk about states of being stuck in dreamland, and states of being aware 'of what's going on' , but even the state of being 'aware of what's going on' (nothing, imagination, God, Love) is actually just a state of complete and utter amazement, cos it cannot be understood within any thoughts what-so-ever. We can only talk ABOUT the truth with words. We can never GET to the truth with words/thoughts. The truth IS ALWAYS THE CASE. It is not a state. It is what is. What stories you then create inside this 'is-ness' (your mind as God) is exactly that: stories, perspectives, narratives. This is the job of the separate self: to understand its own place in this world. Enlightenment is seeing that all 'trying to understand' is completetly and utterly futile. Reality is seen to be an utterly complete mystery, always out of reach for the separated logical mind. To be enlightened is to give in. To let go. To stop trying. To surrender oneself to the truth is to pour so much love into the ego that it explodes and surrenders to the mystery of existence.

My thought. My awareness. I’m observing. I spot. I let. The nothingness. It’s not. It’s not. It’s just. I ask myself. I can’t. I do know. A part of me waiting for something. The devil’s in the detail. Maybe meditation just isn’t for you.

@Exystem Thanks for the explanation. I'm still unbricking my mind but I'm not sure why it seems obvious to everyone that nothingness is a better state to be in than endless dreams, especially when those are crafted with flawless intelligence. (Well, if I understand you correctly it's not really a state. We are always one with the whole, and I'm just not aware of that). The issue is, since God has already created everything, if we become aware of infinity there would be nothing left to do anymore. I know it's only a selfish take and I'm probably just enjoying myself too much. There could be no greater feeling than being "pure infinite love", but we are talking about eternity in a one-way trip here. Such that even a pathetic insignificant point like me would undertake a more or less careful investigation before jumping in. Eventually, why does anything matter if we are going to be the same force of creation, only exploring itself in a more diluted way? Why did I fall for the love meme? Things would be so much simpler if I wasn't conscious to begin with.

I feel like I reached a plateau in my meditation practise. My thoughts subside rather quickly and then nothing (with lower case n). My awareness is clear and vivid and I'm observing the nothingness. When a thought appears, I quickly spot it and I can let it go. Then, the nothingness continues. It's not blissful and it's not the peaceful stillness either that you can read about in books. It's just pure blank. If I ask myself the typical self-inquiry questions (who am I?, who's aware? etc), nothing changes, I can't seem to go deeper. I do know that meditation is not about expecting something to happen and there's nothing to achieve and yet, it seems there's a part of me deep inside that's still waiting for something to happen. I'm honestly not sure what's going on. Is this just a phase? Have you experienced anything similar during your practise? Any ideas?

Careful not to reify qualia as self-existing. They don't. If everything were self-perceiving, then the absence of everything could never be perceived. If you suddenly became blind or deaf, you wouldn't even know it. And there would be no reports of nothingness or "the void". The union of perceiver-perception-perceived is the dream as such, not truth and not absolute. It is Atman (I Am), not Brahman (Void). Atman is self, Brahman is no-self. There is no "everything" in any way shape or form. Brahman exists, Atman is a mirage, a "thought" of Brahman. A mirage can't be self-perceiving, there's nothing really there.

Oh yeah I get this. In experience the I that unifies all forms of experience is not experienced as a space, I am just using the word for lack of a better one. Definitely I don't mean a physical space when i say this word. But yes there is one reality. It's definitely not dual. Waking dream, just as dream at night, only appears to be there, while it's only dreamlike /hallucinatory/nonexistory which makes it of the same substance as that nothingness that we start with! Just as a dream It only appears to be real while the dream state is happening. Amazing ?? nothing came out of nothing after all Maybe my flavour of nonduality is a bit different, and probably more escapist if I have to be honest. I say this because from what I heard you say the world is real and there is no self type of nonduality, but I say the self is real and there is no world... Which is probably the same thing in the end somehow ... ? lol

Beginning, duality, birth and end are consciousness, but they are just a thought. Just a thought in infinite nothingness.

Dear gswva, Once again: I'm not enlightened. My knowledge is only through the scriptures I read and videos that I watch online. It's very much possible my knowledge is flawed. Without enlightenment we can only speculate. Even with enlightenment, it seems there are various levels of enlightenment with different knowledge and more depth to such knowledge. Having understood this, we can only speculate. So, lets speculate: From my understanding, all the descriptions that we give about the Brahman are just that: Descriptions and Thoughts. Even the word Brahman is just a label and as such is just a thought. Neither can you say it exist, nor can you say it doesn't exist. It exists without existing. It is the pure absolute nothingness. So absolute in its emptiness that it becomes the very source of every unique thing. Yet, none of those things are different from it. They only exist in and as itself. The way we think and believe seems to be the way Brahman seem to appear to us(Just like the AI in the movie Captain Marvel). In Non-Dual Traditions: The same reality is experienced as nameless and formless but with all potential. In Bhakthi Traditions: Those who worship krishna report visiting krishna and his abode Goloka(Krishna's abode); those who worship shiva talk about their experiences of shiva; similarly the Devi(goddess) has been seen(e,g: Ramakrishna paramahamsa frequently talked with "kali devi"). Similarly, visiting heaven and christ in christianity; Egyptian gods in ancient egypt etc.. In which ever way we create our karma(Cause & Effect - Tendencies, Beliefs, Conditioning, Memories, Behaviours, etc). such seems to be our experience. Each of these worshipers actually experience reality as if their god is the one who created the entire reality and He/She/They/It is the one who is presiding over everything. Such gods actually show to their devotees through certain experiences how they are the alpha and omega of everything(Best e.g: Virat Rupa(Universal Form) of Krishna shown to Arjuna in the battlefield). During such experiences the devotees actually experience their deity to be anything and everything, with all the descriptions and experiences of non-dual liberation as well as dual liberations being present within their deity itself. Although the deity seen with a form, still at the same time being infinite; with everything present within themselves; Just like fractals although seem to have a limited form; after having zoomed in, will reveal infinite patterns with infinite depth. I'll give you just one example of how they experience their realities based on their belief: "In Gaudiya Vaishnava school of bhakthi(Devotional) tradition(ISKCON). Their deity is Krishna. They make a distinction between Material reality and Spiritual reality. Spiritual reality having many varieties of infinite realms all being completely perfect and eternal. Each realm has a certain form of Krishna presiding over that realm. There is no suffering in any of those realms whatsoever. All of them are filled only with blissful experiences. When they want to experience material reality they descend and have them and again return back to their own abodes. Anybody who develops devotion and worships Krishna believing the stories about him with full unconditional loving intensity; after getting liberation in bhakthi(Dual type liberation) and after giving up their physical body, they go to such places and stay there eternally(I doubt it being eternal - But, who knows) Then, Krishna also creates these Material reality where infinite universes are generated and dissolved again and again. Within each of which: material heavens, hells and earthly experiences are experienced according to the karma of the living entities with incarnation and reincarnation cycles going on again and again. until liberation happens. But, they say that all these material heavens and hells and earthly realms are all temporary and will get destroyed during universal dissolution. And all of them are born in a new universe and are placed in situations suitable for their karma. Also, enjoyment and suffering in earth, heaven or hellish realms are experienced only as long as the karma for such enjoyment or suffering lasts. As such, are only temporary. Karma keeps generating and doesn't run out as long as actions are done with attachment for material fruits. In this tradition, there were and still are very exalted enlightened beings who have experienced these realms/realities directly and written about them. These realities are not experienced as hallucinatory. The realities when being experienced are more profound and vivid than even our own earthly reality. In one such story, a sage during his meditation on his lord was experiencing such a realm and got his finger burnt in that realm. When he opened his eyes in our realm, his finger actually was burnt even in our realm(remember that scene in Matrix?)." The experiences mentioned above are only experienced as such by those who follow Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition(ISKCON) which is just one sub-tradition within the vaishnava tradition within Hinduism. Like this, there are literally more than thousand of other traditions within Hinduism itself. There are 33 million gods in Hinduism it is said. Likewise, there are many different religions in other parts of the world each with their own belief and customs and traditions. Just like the e.g given above, all of them experience their LIFE based on how they create their own karma(Cause & Effect, tendencies, beliefs, conditioning, memories, behaviors, etc).. They experience their gods, heavens , hells and other such things, the way they imagined and believed. All of this is just like water in the mirage. As such you can say, it doesn't exist. But then, as some form of an imagination itself, all of it is real. Just like dreams when experienced are reacted-to-emotionally by the dreamer as being real as long as they are being experienced. Please read the sample screenshots of Yoga Vasishta from these posts first: Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind. Just as Imagination is seen within the mind of the one imagining it. There is no possibility of projecting any reality outside of a mind. Our reality is also one such reality projecting within some mind. That being the case, Every reality is only an imaginary one. Even the mind that projects it is also just a mirage. All of this duality with all its universes/realities within such minds is like a water seen in the mirage(Think of such minds as mirages and water seen in the mirages as the worlds seen in such minds). Both mirage and water seen in it are unreal. They exist without existing. Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. Brahman and intention are incompatible with one another. It is not a personal entity. It is completely impersonal and formless. It is beyond intent and intellectualizing. There is nothing that can be said about it. Upon reaching it, all activity stops. No word or thought or imagination can touch it. It exists without existing. You are one with that Brahman they say.. A mere simple movement ( (metaphorical) which is natural and is a characteristic of Brahman; like movement of air is natural for the wind) in Brahman projects out infinite upon infinite of atomic Jiva(s)(Living entities with mind) into existence. The conscious intelligent design only happens(Not consciously happen in all of them) after the Jiva(s) have come into being within Brahman. Within the minds of those Jiva(s): world, rules and regulations, intelligence, logic all these things appear. These are NOT prior to the minds. For first appeared Primary Jiva(s), as well as secondary Jiva(s) - created within those Primary Jiva(s)'s minds; there is no karma initially. But, after acting as and within the world for some time; memories, tendencies, tastes, behavioral patterns, likes and dislikes, all of these are slowly acquired and they act as a repetitive compulsive cycles after a while, these patterns are what are called as vasanas and samskaras. These are collectively called as karma of that individual. As all the entities have such patterns, you can call it as collective karma of each of such groups. Just as when water flows upon land; creates a river bed by flowing continuously; and not able to change its path but to flow within the same riverbed after a while. Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river. Similarly, without karma, the individual will dissolve and cease to exist. Such dissolution is called liberation. Further Speculation: "Not all those Jiva(s) projecting such worlds within them are very intelligent. So these primitive, first order Jivas only project some dumb random, abstract, useless, not so sophisticated; not so very conscious reality within themselves. Initially they don't possess any knowledge whatsoever. After their death. After having gone through several cycles of interaction with other jivas through reincarnation in other jiva(s)'s universes as one of the living entities in those universes and having evolved into higher conscious states(through such interaction by natural evolution which happens randomly as well as driven by karma) as human beings or other such entities, they get more knowledge. These Jivas after their death in other Jiva's mental world/universe/realm might project very sophisticated universes within their own mind(Even during the lowly evolved states they may project some unsophisticated universes within themselves in some of the after-life cycles). Such projection may not happen within each after-life cycle; only when a compatible universe is not found for the karma that this jiva currently possesses that this Jiva may create such a projection. Even then it may simply wait in limbo for a compatible universe. Again, these projections either sophisticated or unsophisticated; may not be conscious ones. Just like our dreams are not experienced with lucidity with full consciousness of knowing them to be dreams. Similarly these projections may also happen unconsciously within themselves. Within these projected universes, there will be numerous Jiva(s) either reincarnated from other realities who have qualities which are compatible with this universe, or newly created ones without having had any karma before. These newly created jivas, can be directly human beings, deities, or any other such evolved beings which the jiva projecting the universe has previous knowledge of. These other jivas each further creating a universe within themselves in their after-life periods, with more jivas within them...with the cycle going ad-infinitum". As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma. We do have strong evidence for that. As I already presented. You need to understand first that, even the universal mind which projects the world as well as the entities incarnate and reincarnate within it, both/all of them are bound by their karma. Although, if more conscious the Jiva becomes, more ability it has - to act with freedom/freewill with less influence from karma. Some Yogis/saints/sages may take the position of such universal mind and project some highly sophisticated realities/universes/realms. Such Universal minds(Jivas(s)) may be with almost absolute freedom(E.g: Krishna in Goloka - Such Jiva(s) are not called as Jiva(s) They are called Bhagawan-Supreme Gods and goddesses for those who worship them). The Abodes/Realities/Universes/Worlds/Heavens what ever you want to call it; created by such Bhagawan/God like entities who have attained very highly unimaginable levels of consciousness/awareness are the worlds where suffering and reincarnation doesn't exist. Whether these worlds exist eternally or not I don't know. It may be a possibility, but I'm not sure. There may be infinite such worlds with varying degrees of sophistication. Depending upon the consciousness prevailing in any reality, reincarnation may or may not be a fact in that reality. May be even in our own realities, not every one reincarnate. I don't know how it works. What I do know is: Karma is what drives reincarnation or any other experience as an individuated entity. Having understood all of this clearly. Keeping the example of Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition in mind. If we think about each of the models you have presented, Even though you have presented them as if each of your models encompass all of absolute existence. Still it is possible to reduce them into different possible realities and it is easily possible that each of those models of reality may be truly be experienced in some of those universes/realities in some of those minds imagining/creating them. Even if such realities doesn't exist anywhere now, they can still be created by imagining them in a certain state of mind, either through Meditation(like mentioned in Yoga Vasishta) or even after Physical Death by keeping on intensely imagining them again and again in your living time now. So, scriptures say that In what ever state of mind you leave your body, during death, that state you'll attain without fail. This is just like how we dream at night about those things which we intensely contemplated in our waking state. Also, you'll only experience those realities and experiences, about which you have knowledge of or atleast related to your mental and karmic structure as a natural progression of your karma. Absolutely random experiences may be a very rare phenomenon. What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again Not necessary for all of creations to merge before other cycle of creations emerge. Infinite creations are keeping on emerging and dissolving infinitely in infinite minds simultaneously. This cycle never stops. Such is the nature of Brahman - Just like breathing is the nature of a human being. Having said that, this is only from the view given in the book:Yoga Vasishta. But, this also depends on your beliefs and world view. Remember: that you only experience what your mental structure believes and allows. The video posted above of Rupert Spira has somewhat a good explanation. For this very reason some people may remember some other people's experiences & memories as their own(As one can read somewhat similar experiences in Yoga Vasishta). But, he seems to assume all the individuated entities as loosely bound with loose covering. But, It is only true for certain individuals in certain states of karma and for certain periods and types of disembodiment. After death, it seems; generally the individuated entities are tightly bound with remaining 4 layers(more like aspects than layers) of coverings mostly intact which I have mentioned in my previous posts. Because of this, these entities acquiring the karmas and memories of other's may be rare. The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not. May be we need to experience Non-Dual enlightenment to understand this. "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" has said that merging into brahman is like a salt doll walking into the ocean. After merging with the ocean there is no coming back. Seems like all non dual scriptures say the same thing. I haven't studied all of them though. May be those who suffer too much choose to dissolve when such an opportunity presents itself. Whereas, those who improve more and more through their effort gain new heights of awareness and consciousness creating their own realities and living in it with full bliss eternally(? - I'm not sure). Sadhguru says in his book that there is no need to keep extending the individuation as every kind of universe has same fundamental structures. But, I don't agree with it. If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation. He himself admitted that he doesn't have much scriptural knowledge. Maybe, too much confidence in one's own ability without proper theoretical knowledge may create such illusions. Also, as I mentioned already, you can only experience those experiences you believe and have knowledge about. Interestingly in the Gaudiya vaishnava tradition, although some of them say that such merging is a permanent suicide. Others say that even attaining liberation through merging with brahman is useless because it is only temporary and after a while they again fall down from that position. May be in this situation is where Rupert Spira's explanation may make sense, because during merging with Brahman there are no coverings and all those layers are completely dismantled. So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma, For those individuals where such combination is not immediately available, maybe only they are created freshly without any karma. Maybe because the newly created individuals in this manner are not entirely uniquely their own selves as they previously were, it is for this reason that it may have been said that: once merged, its finished. It may also be possible that some or all of these merged entities when there is a compatible universe exists, each of these entire entities is brought back with the same configuration. And as such experience themselves as same persons they were before in one of their previous incarnations. The above cases makes sense because it is said that by doing samyama any information can be retrieved that one wishes to retrieve. It would only be possible if all the information is stored permanently somewhere. It is also possible that only information is permanent and not the individuals themselves with all their karmic configurations. Above all, it is also highly possible that each of these cases is possible in some versions of cultural realities whose cultures imagine realities in such different manners mentioned above. Absolutely anything seems to be possible(Both Possibility as well as Impossibility). In order to get proper understanding of reality, you have to read both of these books completely: (Even then you may not understand everything, But will definitely improve your knowledge) Please read this book(Yoga Vasishta) without skipping anything: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover