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I've spent many hours observing biological cells through a microscope and I have barely scratched the surface. I continually return with new curiosities, questions and ideas. I can look at dividing neuroblasts over and over and observe new things each time. My awareness and understanding expands each time. I never know what the microscope will reveal to me. Many times, new pieces of the puzzle are revealed and I return to learn more about how to integrate observations and connect dots. A suggestion that a cellular biologist looks through a microscope a few times and then moves on without return is inaccurate. When I gaze through the microscope, I observe intensely - sometimes hours straight. It takes experience, wisdom and intuition to know when the message has been revealed to you. At that point, only a fool would sit with their eye permanently glued to the microscope. The wise biologist goes away and works on what he has observed. What is this "work"? The work is contextualizing the observations and integrating the new observations with previous observations to form a more holistic model. As well, the data may open new avenues of research or suggest a change of direction. Then, the biologist returns to the microscope to perform the cycle again. Over and over and over. Hundreds or thousands of times. Over time, there is more expansion and more clarity toward a deeper and more holistic understanding. My experience with psychedelics is similar. When an insight is revealed during a trip, I don't stay permanently tripping on that insight. I go away and get to work. What is this work? The work is contextualizing the observations and integrating the new observations with previous observations to form a more holistic perspective. This contextualization and integration process involves hours of meditation, contemplation, yoga etc. As well, the trip may open new avenues of exploration or suggest a change in direction. Then, the explorer returns to trip to perform the cycle again. Over and over. Experimenting with different psychedelics, doses and settings. Each time, there is a bit more expansion and a bit more clarity toward a deeper and more holistic understanding. I often see a misconception on the forum that psychedelics are a stand-alone tool for a spiritual seeker. That is like saying a carpenter only uses a screwdriver. It's complete nonsense. Just as a carpenter uses a variety of tools to master his craft, psychedelics are ONE tool that is combined with several other tools such as meditation, yoga, self inquiry, listening to nonduality speakers, reading spiritual literature etc. Together, this can lead to mastery.

@ivankiss Says you, because, nonduality.

This entire conversation is devolving into masturbation and confusion. There is no difference between enlightenment in Buddhism and Hinduism or any other major religion. @Emanyalpsid Stop spreading misinformation. Stop talking about nonduality on this forum and do the work.

The Void. Infinity. Since reading Leo's blog post on Aztec nonduality, I like Teotl.

I would be careful of defining "presence" as the cessation of thoughts, ideas and stories. By doing so, your mind is setting up an "either - or" dynamic: that there is presence or non-presence. Yet, presence is always present. There is no escape from presence. It sounds like you have experienced a form of emptiness in which the stories, thoughts, beliefs etc. dissolve. Is there awareness in this mind state? Or is more like "zoning out"? As well, it sounds like your mind is new to this experience and is contextualizing it by setting up a scenario in which a "present mind state" means no suffering and a "not present" mind state means suffering. It sounds like there is seeking energy to use this feature of "presence" to selectively eliminate suffering during "non-presence". This can cause egoic desires toward some type of goal. For example: "I want to combine presence with non-presence to end my suffering". Presence is not a place separate from non-presence. Presence is nothing and everything. It is unconditional. Presence when you are meditating. .. . presence during sadness, frustration, watching a movie, eating, thinking, arguing, having sex, taking a math exam and on and on. Yet, it's more likely it will reveal itself when the mind is quiet. It sounds like you have gotten a look of presence from a unique and fresh perspective. I would ask that attachments and identifications be revealed (not eliminated). Observe attachments and identification to thoughts and ideas as they arise through the day. Perhaps awareness will arise that those attachment and identification dynamics arise within presence. This process can be very unsettling to a mind-body that wants to be grounded. Surrendering control can be scary as well as liberating. If it is overwhelming to the mind-body, you may want to try and pull back for a bit to reduce the intensity and integrate lessons for a bit. I would do activities that relax the mind-body, such as yoga, walks in nature, watching nonduality videos etc.

That idea is contracted within subject-object dualism and does not integrate nonduality.

Hey, I just want to know whether or not it is possible to have an awakening experience of nothingness or no-self without a serious spiritual practice or psychedelics. I can't have practice because of some environmental reasons (which I'm actively working on to fix) I can't get my hands on psychedelics either. For this, I have to travel, which I can't afford yet (I'm also actively working on to fix this) I know that fastest way to have a glimpse is psychedelics, but given the condition I find myself in, I'll have to wait for a couple of years (or maybe less) to be able to get them. So, that leaves me with a very limited list of options I guess. As far as I understand, the best way for me is 10-day solo meditation retreat. Can you tell me what can I do other than that? The reason why I am asking all of this is that I was planning my life couple of years ago such that I thought I would be able to experience my true nature at least once, in 2-3 years. Then something unexpected happened and I've found myself not capable of even doing a meditation. I just kept reading books and filling myself with all the theory. Now I'm working on the aspects of my life which will enable me to get back on track and pursue the Truth more actively. But that will probably require some time, at least a year or more. I just can't wait anymore. Sometimes all I can think of is these stuff, all the ways that my egoic behavior damages me, and all the unconsciousness that goes into my life... I need to see what is this about, see how deluded I am. I want to know how it feels to look at the world and don't make a distinction of me vs not-me, even for a couple of seconds. I even thought of learning Lucid Dreaming in order to have a glimpse of nonduality at least in my dream Is that possible? So, what can I do?

@Nahm it's like his book The Power of Now is it enough to get a glimpse of nonduality?

For a while now i didn’t create any meaningful connections or relationships with people. I feel somewhat different and awkward opposed to other individuals in our society. Although I don’t have any problems with talking to people i have a real problem with creating a true conversation where a person truly meets me and real connections are made. I had many great opportunities to create a relationship with a woman but my inability to open up was holding me back. I don’t know what to do. Although i am aware of this situation it is not easy to fix it. I feel like my personality is not really developed enough. I am well educated in subjects of spirituality and nonduality but I am having a problem with including this in my personality since it could really weird people out. I am 17 years old

@Maya_0 Yes. Psychedelics show nothing, including you & the psychedelic you just took, exists, and that there’s no fundamental truth about reality at all. This should be most apparent to you, of all people! ♥️ Explain you are offering the truth of nonduality, that there is not two; subject (subjectivity) & object (objectivity). Explain the implication of duality, or the two-ness of subject & object - is that they are a separate thing (subject) from everything else (objects). Ask if they understand that while they think there is the duality of existence & non-existence (alive & dead), the word nonexistence actually refers to something that isn’t. (They may need to google it). Nonexistence is not something which actually exists, so there is not two, there is only existence. As there is only existence, then they are existence (there is no - nonexistence - which they could be). This shows them they are not “alive” or “dead”. “Ignorance” is not insulting, it simply means they have been ignoring this (ignor-ance). Then point out that the truth did just come about through their personal subjective experience, unless they ignore it. @RichardY Psychedelics show you: the fundamental truth of reality. There are no dimensions or demons, or dragon age origin shit, unfortunately. Idiots were already idiots before using psychedelics (don’t listen to them), and the unconscious is prior to “control” or “uncontrol” like awareness is prior to thinking or not thinking. How could you control the unconscious? What would it be like to control something you are not conscious of?

Be careful not to throw ages around like you think you know what you're talking about... Children are much closer to enlightenment that teenagers/young adults are. Nonduality is the thing that actually makes sense to a heart-centered, non-infoctrinated person, not the other way around. I have seen children and young teenagers talk with Rupert Spira, they can get this shit. It's readily accessible. Start them young, I say!

@Giulio Bevilacqua Most of Western philosophy is mental masturbation and will take you further into delusion. If you are already into spirituality and nonduality why waste your time with Western philosophy? Why not invest that time deepening your spiritual practice? Be careful not to do things just because other people are doing them. Be independent and don't do useless things with your life. Be highly selective with how you invest your time. Maybe spend your time studying something more practical.

For me it was quite literally the epitome of nonduality. Just clicked. All is one. There was no me or identification with anything. It was just pure unity. it was one of the most blissful States I have ever been in but that varies with people

Yes, there are various types of consciousness going on here. 1. There is the awareness of social consciousness as an observer. For example, someone might be watching the concert on TV and think "that group of people dancing is like a giant amoeba". Similarly, one may become aware that a tribe has a group consciousness. 2. There is awareness from an individual POV that they are within a collective consciousness. I am aware my mind-body is within a larger collective societal consciousness. 3. There is awareness from the POV of the collective consciousness of it's individual components. This is where I think it gets tricky. . . Examples: I am aware that my mind-body is composed of individual cells. The consciousness of the amoeba is aware it is composed of individual people. The consciousness of the tribe is aware that it is composed of tribal members. Here, the center of awareness IS the collective consciousness, not someone viewing it (type 1) or someone within it (type 2). 4. There is pure awareness from the POV of the collective consciousness. Here, the collective consciousness is not paying attention to the people that make up up. The collective conscious is being itself as an entity. When someone is playing soccer, they are just playing soccer. They don't think "I am a muscle cell contracting" or "I am a neuron that needs to send an action potential". The entity we call a person is playing soccer at the level of personal awareness. Similarly, the collective consciousness of the amoeba isn't thinking "I am made up of individual people". It is existing and being itself, flowing as an amoeba. The hard part to imagine is that the center of awareness is at the level of the amoeba. Personal awareness evaporates. It's not nonduality because there is a separate entity: the amoeba. Entering this conscious state and returning is really freaky. At first, it felt like I was going insane and caused a lot of anxiety. Then, it became like an out of body experience. Then it's just another level of consciousness. Yet just like cellular consciousness can't turn itself into personal consciousness, personal consciousness can't turn itself into collective consciousness. It's like personal consciousness dissolves and a totally different type of awareness enters. I think it needs to be experienced. I'd say most people can at least intellectually comprehend #s 1 and 2. #s 3 and 4 are a huge jump and need direct experience to be fully understood. I really like how you are thinking about teaching pedagogies to raise consciousness. There are relatively few yellow and turquoise level teachers. Yet, we are evolving in that direction. I see it more and more.

@Ethankahn Absolute Infinity = Nothing Form is formlessness. Fromlessness is form. You are creating a duality out of nothing and infinity. Also, there is an infinite number of different systems of logic. So which ever logic you're using is arbitrary and relative. Absolute Infinity is not limited to logic because it created logic and holds an infinite number of logical systems within it, including all the stuff you deem illogical. The very distinction you create between logical and illogical means there is logical stuff and illogical stuff, which the illogical stuff being greater in quantity than the logical stuff. YOU are creating all of these distinctions between logic/illogic, infinity/nothing, life/death, self/other, true/false, etc. Ultimate nonduality is the realization that all of these distinctions are relative and impermanent.

I see. I can relate. I didn't 'see' it though probably it was right in front in the first two years of exploring nonduality.. I just wasn't ready for it. I can see that I am identified with the seeker/nondual-student-me. It is more subtle than feeling being behind the eyes. I dont know exactly how to 'locate' it and disidentify from it..

Got it. Thanks. Self-inquiry seems to be such a direct, no BS, path toward enlightenment. Why isn't it more popular? Why shave the head, wear a robe? Why worship a guru with exotic retreats to India? Why all this embellishment around nonduality? It only keeps the people distracted. Why do you think it is not that well known?

I skimmed his video on nonduality and Leo and it seems like he is criticizing Leo for the followers Leo constantly is trying to turn around. Those that mentally masturbate. Concept without practice. Denying the ego experience for oneness (funny enough not holistic) Using all is illusion as escapeism when real and illusion are one in the same. This is zen-devilry is it not? That's what he seems to be pointing out. But his followers seem to attribute the ideological dogmatic followers of Leo as "Leo's cult" and then shame Leo for it.

This is all completely irrelevant. I don’t see Leo on this post making criticisms and judgments here defending himself and being ideological nor is there any direct proof that Rogan was referencing Leo. So many of these comments and replies to this clip is just a shitstorm of ideological projections. There is a truth to what Rogan is saying. See the truth and toss the rest. Rogan is a highly developed person whose able to see a lot of different point of views, an ability most of his guests can’t even do. Rogan is more developed than most people and his multi perspective lens is one of the reasons why his show is so enterntaininng. People can feel his fascination and curiosity on some level or another and his lack of judgment and openmibdedness is what allows this to flourish. People who are expecting Rogan to understand nonduality and all this shit just show how much they take what Leo and a lot of great teachers share for granted.

@Arthur. Do you think your experience would have been different if you had never learned anything about nonduality beforehand? I know that may be hard to extrapolate, given you did have prior knowledge, but if you could try. I'm curious if people who know nothing about nonduality, once taken 5-Meo, would have the same experience.

@ingurix In one sense: the opposite of enlightenment is ego, duality, Maya, or your present state of mind. In another sense: enlightenment has no opposite because Truth has no opposite. Falsehood is not really opposite of Truth because Truth is all there is and falsehood isn't really a thing (it is an illusion). From the unenlightened perspective enlightenment has an opposite. From the enlightened perspective there never was such a thing as unenlightenment. Enlightenment is TOTAL and ever-present. It is the only thing that is ever occurring, has ever occurred, or can ever occur. Enlightenment or nonduality means: no dualities, which means no opposites. You're basically asking: What is the opposite of no-opposites? Lol

i was recommended a book by Itzhak Benthov. Reading into him i saw that he helped build Israels first rocket for war in 48 and similar affiliations. He also did work in consciousness, nonduality, etc. I'm not sure if i'm being an ideologue/egoic in questioning his work because of his role in religious war. am i? how?

@Mikael89 you get something from nothing. It's like finite being in infinite. Duality inside nonduality. It's both something and nothing at the same time.

@FoxFoxFox I think we’re seeing this the same, really, and have very similar, if not the same, intentions. I can really appreciate what you said there. I do want to point out, (because you said “the rest of your writing”) and not to appear to take credit, that is not my writing. It’s from the SAND website. Mine was just an offering of an explanation, just an opinion of what the writer was conveying. It’s open to any interpretation of course. I don’t know that he / she would consider it a concession, though I’m in agreeance with you, consessions are problematic. I’d add their name btw, but there isn’t one on the site. I am thankful for your comment. It draws attention to the limiting nature of making a post like this with only one explanation of nonduality. I should probably add at least a few more. https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/about/nonduality/

@FoxFoxFox Good lookin out, thanks! I appreciate the vigilance, however, that is not my writing, but from... https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/about/nonduality/. In terms of the sentence you copied & pasted above, yes, of course. However, if we look at the author’s entire paragraph: “In the last century Western scientists are arriving at the same conclusion: The universe does indeed comprise of a single substance, presumably created during the Big Bang, and all sense of being – consciousness – subsequently arises from it. This realization has ontological implications for humanity: fundamentally we are individual expressions of a single entity, inextricably connected to one another, we are all drops of the same ocean.” Then we can see the initial reference is not to truth, nor the author’s sentiment, but to what “Western scientists are arriving at”. The author has used the word “presumably” before “created” in a reserved, humble manor - as an initial concession even - to convey a sense of respect to readers who’s knowing of self is limited to the rationale of “western scientists”, while simultaneously expressing to the reader there is a much deeper truth. (pre·sum·a·bly: Used to convey that what is asserted is very likely though not known for certain.) In understanding the subject of the paragraph thus far is what “Western scientists are arriving at” - then we can see he goes on to elaborate on that with western science coming to a realization the universe is “one substance”, and that “all sense of being - consciousness - subsequently arises from it” has ontological implications. By “ontological implications”, we are Invited to consider that there is a much deeper, relatively speaking - meta - truth of being. (on·to·log·i·cal: 1. Relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.) In understanding the initial reference pertained to what “Western scientists are arriving at”, and acknowledging that is a presumption, the author points out the shortcoming of that presumption is limited: “all sense of being” . The writer then goes on to express the truth behind his implication (quite beautifully imo): “fundamentally we are individual expressions of a single entity, inextricably connected to one another, we are all drops of the same ocean.” So, the writing is not geared towards someone with your knowing, but perhaps towards a materialist with some interest in obtaining a deeper understanding of self & truth than western science has currently put forward.