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I also 100000% agree with this. I’ve actually been falling into this the last few months. It turns nonduality a belief system which when you’re doing whatever practices you do makes them harder cause now you have a whole cosmology and those beliefs become very sticky. For me this is a problem (particularly) because I grew up under a dad who I learned this horrible dogmatic habit of hard debating and I can’t stand this habit in myself for all the different reasons it toxifies my life but also because I tend to be good at understanding what concepts are really pointing to intellectually and I have almost this thing, it’s almost like this subconscious talent, of being really good at understanding what’s really being spoken on a conceptual level and tying all these pieces in my mind and can see in my mind how they connect and now I have this whole elaborate cosmology that I tend to lie and pretend I know better than I do and defend those ideas. It’s a really nasty habit but also conceptualizinf this whole thing is just such a trap, especially on here where we by necessity have to use language which indulges the mind to map everything and unconsciously confusing the map for the territory. However, I’m getting pretty good at contemplating and grounding myself in the present and that the truth of what I’m after is right here right now and nowhere else which regrounds me in not knowing and curiosity.

@Leo Gura Yes, that is a great logical explanation. Yet it would have triggered the analytical scientist in me ?. I took a meandering path sprinkled with Turquoise nonduality glimpses. It’s weird how I want to explain it through the direct experience. Logic seems so dry and boring to me these days.

Yes. For a mind that has been conditioned as a self it's entire life, entering a no-self consciousness can be very uncomfortable. The self often tries to maintain control of the narrative in the mind. It can be unfamiliar and disorienting. This can occur during a glance at truth, yet also when the mind returns to it's baseline self. What helped me was to continue my grounding practices such as yoga, meditation and watching nonduality teachers. As well, contemplating the experience and discussing it on this forum. With time, the mind settles down and the experience becomes "integrated" into regular life and the mind expands.

True passion is a connection to your True Self. Psychedelics will give you direct experience with nonduality. The mind will flip back to a dualistic mind state. Yet, nondual direct consciousness is a game-changer. Even when your mind flips back dual and starts to contextualize it, there will be a deeper "knowing" that you can't put into words or explain.

although 'the absolute' doesn't exist either. So 'the absolute' is paradoxically relative as every linguistic expression is. But 'collapse of dualities' is nevertheless an appropriate hint. However those who follow advaita teachings usually have trouble to grasp this because advaita teachings are based on affirmation of true existence of 'oneness' or 'nonduality' or 'awareness' and the like. They obviously think that duality has to be overcome and that it can be overcome through choosing one side of it and reject the other, but neither the former nor the latter applies.

Referring to this sort of explanation of the Absolute Truth, nonduality, and it having more importance than Relative Truth. "Dualistically I agree, of course, but it doesn’t appear you are speaking about duality. You are referencing absolute truth, that all is one, and then conflating it with duality: individuality, purpose, moving beyond, importance, “levels”, duality of existence and not, and God “dealing” in perfection. Individuality does not exist, that is duality, illusion. There would need to be two for there to be uniqueness / individuality. Nothing “exists”, and Nothing does not “exist”. If you can move “beyond” absolute truth, then it is not absolute, and was not the Truth. “Enlightenment is the beginning”, is reference to the illusion. In Truth, there is no beginning, and no illusion." If this doesn't clarify what I'm referring to, one good example is the use of the word illusion to describe the Relative. The Relative is as real as the Absolute, and starting off with terminology that suggest otherwise leads people towards nondual dogma and spiritual stagnation. The Relative is the most beautiful, important, sacred form of existence we will ever have. Some refer to the Relative as a video game, but it's the complete opposite of a game. It's the realest thing we'll ever experience. Individuality ties into this because it does exist, it exists on the deepest levels of existence. The further we get down the spiritual path the more important it is to recognize this if we want to bask in our true nature. If we embraced radical authenticity from the start, we could skip a lot of unnecessary growing pains. It's incorrect that we can't regress down stages in SD, and this becomes very obvious when transitioning from Turquoise to Coral. Children are born in Coral. They are born completely authentic, expressing Divinity with ease. It's why people wish to be children again when they grow up. But when someone is several stages above everyone surrounding them, including the people who control their lives, they regress to the stages their society is at, or worse. Social conditioning beats authenticity out of children. And instead of recognizing this phenomenon, and trying to correct course back to our true nature, we've come up with all of these distortions that keep us away from Truth. This is all to say how important individuality really is, it's where we should be building our spiritual practice from, not moving away from. It's crucial for humanity to have people who recognize the flaws made in even our most advanced spiritual traditions, so that we can start correcting for the future generations to come. The amount of resistance or complete lack of interest such mentions of Truth receive even in spiritual circles, should highlight the severity of egoic dogma that needs to be overcome.

It makes me happy to know you feel the same way. I do want to clarify though, that there is significant differences in the way we're speaking about the needed move towards surrender and love. The focus on nonduality that has been going on for 2000 to 3000 years has inhibited the elevation of human consciousness. It's important to have a more integral approach to Truth, if we want to accelerate the spiritual growth that this world so desperately needs. I hope you understand what I mean. I do appreciate your dedication to love regardless.

Because Everything includes every thing as One. Everything really really means Everything, including all perceptions of things. There is no thing outside of Everything. There is no thing you or anyone can think, feel or do outside of Everything. There is no object or concept outside of Everything. Thus, Everything = No thing = Nothing. Everything / Nothing is Absolute. There is no conceptual escape hatch. Concepts of nonduality and duality collapse into Everything / Nothing.

All you need to know about nonduality is that it is the realization on the highest level you are one with everything. Everything within your experience is you, because you are God. Anything your told beyond this is nondual masturbation. It serves no purpose and only complicates your spiritual growth. The real question is, once you reach the pinnacle of nondual awareness, where do you go from there? That's only the second step of the spiritual path, the first being enlightenment. Most enlightened individuals fall into dogma and stunt their growth by assuming nondual is the finish line of spirituality, when they only just started the race. The real challenge comes in the next step, which is paradoxically integrating the nondual perspective with duality. Ken Wilber touches on this, even though he doesn't fully understand how to do it. Absolute and Relative Truth have to be merged, that's the next step in our evolution. Christ was a good example of these two merging, Buddha is an example of getting stuck in a nondual rut. The Integration of Relative and Absolute Truth is Coral. It's beyond nondual dogma and since some of the best teachings for spiritual development only take one to nondual you have very few that ever reach it. It's probably somewhere around .001% of the population. And reaching Coral is only just the beginning, so don't let yourself get stuck down at what 2000 to 3000 year old books point towards. Considering how many enlightened individuals are stuck behind dogma, it makes it even more difficult for deeper Truth to come out.

Nonduality cannot be understood, yet includes all understandings. Nonduality is not a perspective, yet includes all perspectives. Everything = No thing = Nothing

1. What guide post or guide lines do you have for pointing someone towards gaining useful nuance, genuineness, self honesty and awareness. 2. What makes you feel qualified to speak about enlightenment or waking up? I ask 2. since we seem to have exact realizations about enlightenment and its interpretations along with the dangers of not dealing with fetters/karma/ego/things that cause suffering. I first studied under Anderew Cohen who was big into accountability (sadly/funny enough his ego got the better of him and brought down his community), and this had a serious impression on me. Then like Leo is sharing, such ideals unconscious to me created a perfectionist state and a goal that may be impossible (i was not aware of this at the time). Down the road I spent a few years of following/letting in nonduality teachings of Paul Hedderman, Lisa Cairns, Papaji, Rupert Spira and some of Alana Watts, I let in the idea of nondoer ship and the recognition that all experience arises and is out of our hands no matter how real the "I" free will feeling, belief seems. This was profoundly healing and freeing and perhaps didn't create a egomaniac monster since I first started with accountability and not causing suffering to self and others as a prime principle. However I had two profoundly paradoxical understandings abiding in this shell of being. That seemed to have merged on a understanding level along with a direct recognition and understanding of who and what we all are.....god/infinity/oneness Along with this has come freedom and understanding. There is never not god, everything, matter, energy, thoughts, feelings, experience, the capacity for such things for thoughts to be able to happen, feelings to happen, experience to be possible, wisdom, all experiences of what realizers call waking up, all are god, and none of them are themselves the full picture of infinity, but are infinity none the less. Now comes some of the odd pills of truth along with this. I'm god, with all my ideas, views, beliefs, spiritual practices and disciplines that bring equanimity and fruits, such as dont rage at someone or I'll experience the flood of chemicals, pain that it may cause others, and self discomfort from my chosen action. Theres the experience of doing and being done, non action, arisal, no knowledge of where thoughts creativity, ideas arise from, the mystery. Knowing all of me is the creation of my original face. Theres also a very real understanding of why guru's do what they do and feel fine with it, like sleep with a student, harshly discipline out of supposed benefit of student, and any number of culty things out there. This freedom that comes from waking up seems to reveal that there is no actual moral barometer out there enforcing anything on anyone, almost the opposite, a unconditional love accepting and understanding all as Self/Love. What you and I call karma and fetters is another form of god/play of lila/maya, how could Self ever get anything wrong or cause itself any harm, and yet paradoxically Self is always consuming Self and causing Self pain somewhere in its infinity all the time. As Self it seems like whats done with this individual incarnation is self+Self creating Self in the mystery of itsSelf. What are your thoughts on Self consuming Self, never not Self, the relationship of Self and "right" action. And again I asked 2. to see what makes you in particular feel like your ready to teach and out of curiosity what was that turning point.

@Beeflamb Sounds like you've barely scratched the surface of nonduality. Try 5-MeO-DMT to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Many people on the path have gone through similar. What I would suggest is to get in touch with this "observer". You've said things like "My ego" , "I really like". So, you have realized an awareness that is observing the ego. What is this awareness? Can you settle in with it? . . . I think many people entering this stage think "The self is an illusion! It is bad and I need to get rid of it". Instead, why not be this observer of the ego? Rather than fighting against it, why not get curious about this ego and observe it. What the heck is this ego? It's fascinating. You mentioned watching movies. Imagine yourself watching the ego. . . This is much easier to do if the ego mind is relatively quiet. If the ego mind goes into full-on chatter mode, well it's quite unpleasant as you have found out. When the ego mind is in hyper-chatter mode, not much good arises. So, I try to settle it down a bit with yoga, meditation, listening to nonduality teachers, going for a walk or run etc. When I first went through this, it was like I didn't know who I was anymore. Should I do the same things? Should I enjoy the same things? Who am I and what happens now? Some interests faded away and some of those returned. Some new interests arose. I didn't have any issues with appetite. Perhaps you could increase exercise / activity to increase appetite?

@Arhattobe It is problematic to conflate the realization of Absolute Truth with the development and perfection of the human body/mind. These are two very distinct things. By making this conflation, as you say, no one is enlightened, because your definition of enlightenment has become an idealistic fantasy. There are many lines and stages of human development alongside many states and degrees of consciousness. Nonduality can be grasped at many depths, it has multiple facets, and the realization of all those insights will not automatically make you a perfect human being. The way we use the terms enlightenment/awakening on this forum is to mean: the realization of no-self, God, Infinity, or Absolute Oneness. That life is a dream. This can happen and you can still have all sorts of fetters, bad behaviors, and psychological stuff. In fact, that's almost guaranteed. We do not use the word enlightenment to mean, "The total purifcation of karma and mind", or total mastery. Total mastery is a pipedream for most people and will take you 30+ years of industrial-grade practice. Enlightenment occurs when one catches the Ox. Not at picture #10. This is why the ox-herding pictures and Spiral Dynamics are so useful.

This... This is the peak of male power. Im gonna take on the beast of 6 months as the superior man takes on his depolarized potato. Im gonna ravish the world with neverending, evergrowing spring-nectar of holy hormonal bliss extracted by the means NoNut and the cultivation my alpha essence into awareness, creativity, wet attraction, and fuckin' nonduality. Let me present a short backstory for you all: I have been on this journey of NoFap for close to 2 years, my longest streak being 6 months which im now gonna recreate a year later with unmeasurable power gained from this hard journey in between. Only recently have I been gaining the benefits of my endless observations of where my life is going with this addiction, and only now I have gained a confidence like never before out of the sheer fact that I have learned something new every time I have relapsed, up until a week ago; I felt this sudden shift, that signaled that im capable of doing this. I quit video games and PMO cold turkey last week, and my positive motivations have provided me with unmeasurable confidence, aiding me to pulverize and absorb the last fiber of any hedonistic desires with the light of my awareness. Many goals have been set. This ain't gonna be an easy cookie to chew but I shall let the confidence in my goals carry me through! Im gonna read many books that will aid me in this journey, and I will be exposing myself through this journal as frequently as I have the time to be online. This challenge will be: Unconditional semen retention (within my power) No ejaculation, not even when having sex No watching porn, (Not exposing myself to anything sufficiently graphic to spawn arousal) No intentional/recreational fantasizing I will keep you guys updated through this journal, in @Shin's words: In this quote, Mr.Shin refers to accountability partners. With radical honesty, I will keep you guys updated along the way! Credits to @8Ball, @Sahil Pandit, @youngshinzen, @Shin, @Vitamine Water, @Marinus, @Jol356 , @alea @Leo Gura and all of you guys who are inspiring me and are keeping the holy practise of semen retention alive!

Yep. I can tell almost immediately if someone has had direct experience with nonduality, just by the way they try to explain the unexplainable. Those with only intellectual knowledge and no direct experience stick out like a sore thumb.

Take a video and all the frames in it. Spread them all out. All of those are happening simultaneously. That's what's actually happening. Nonduality is just realizing separation is perception. They only contain flaws and contradictions because you are too caught in concept and imagination in it all. Words are just pointers and in this work language breaks down so you must truly seek out what they are trying to say through direct experience. Look at your hand. That's not a hand. Hand is just a part of the model you built for reality. Concept and imagination. What you are seeing is actual with no concept applied. Everything is you and you are infinite. Everything and nothing. From the absolute you experience everything at once.

Are you familiar with Hameed Ali's (A H Almaas) work? He talks about how there are realizations beyond Nonduality. He, and others seem to too, make a difference between awareness and emptiness

We all need to be hoodwinked (thank you conditioning!). If you tell someone what nonduality is, they won't believe you. . If you ask someone what they really want, they don't know that they don't know. If you tell someone what's really involved, they'd never do it. We gotta wake em up or they'll sleep through the whole thing! @karkaore Your approach could be helpful on college forums too. "Just drop out!" "It's not worth it!" "You're fooling yourself!" "Stop fighting homeostasis! Just get a job at your dad's place!"" ...maybe dating sights too? "It will never work out!" "Listen to the fear! STAY HOME!" "THERE IS NO MR. RIGHT! HE DOESN'T EXIST!!!!" "She'll be just like your mom no matter which girl you pick!!"

@Matteo You’ve been going along in an acquiring manor. You never ‘emptied your cup’. The path is deconstruction, less and less meaning empties the mind, reduces thinking, and realization can arise in this space. The final dissapointment, is the teachings. There is a full circle, completed in renouncing all ‘spirituality’. Without the fore mentioned emptiness, with a head full of teachings, one teacher after another - where can nondual realization arise? Suffering is thinking, over thinking. There’s no such thing as gurus. That is a deeply rooted thought, a projection. Again, it must be emptied, surrendered. Where can nonduality arise? That is the “problem”. That statement is NOT TRUE. You don’t know what you are. “I don’t know what I am”, is true for you. Don’t blow it off as semantical. This is the false belief you are repeating in different ways, which is the root of your seeking and suffering. Trade thinking for stomach breathing, for good, never look back. If you have a deeper trauma, from 12 or younger, get therapy. If not, you may just be experiencing the power of overthinking and having identified such. How will you realize what you are, while you’re claiming you already know? RIght, why would you have that thought, when it feels bad? Not trying to poke at you, just trying to help you see what you’ve missed. The ego, thinking, is one notch, one degree more cleaver than you. You will never beat the ego. You must surrender - from this moment on, stomach breathing. Notice when you consciously do it, you go unconscious in seconds and are mentally distracted, and you forgot. Practice it all day everyday, every minute no matter what you’re doing. (If what you want, is consciousness) Thinking will reduce more every day, until it literally stops one day. Good! Why are you thinking you need to trust someone, some person, some maya? What is nonduality? No more looking for shortcuts. You can not over think and breathe from your stomach at the same time. See this in your direct experience. None of those teachers mentioned this, or you did not commit to this? Stop looking for thinking to resolve thinking. Stop looking for clear ideas. “Hopeless” is also a thought. Surrender yourself to that voice within you, the unthinking, un-figuring-out, un-idea-maker. Surrender the finite (thinking) mind. What comes is the realization of infinity, nothing, Samadhi. It’s waiting, patiently, until you’ve done. It will never infringe. You must surrender to it. Trust me, what you really want, is not to hear any thoughts. There is. Can’t blow past it and go right into thinking, or you’ve already missed it. Breath / Awareness - do you see, in your own experience, these are prior to thinking? If not, pm me and I can quickly help you realize this in your own experience. It’s literally been right under your nose this entire time, you are looking once you’re already past what you are really looking for. It’s like you’ve been playing that Headbands game for 12 years, and your word is, “ineffable”.

@Emerald from The Diamond Net on YouTube has an amazing life coaching program right now for people and wanted to leave a review as I think she’s an AMAZING resource for those of us on here who are motivated towards nonduality and spirituality but also maybe struggling in life in some way and can use some outside help. Most life coaches as we know are often super expensive and although some of us can afford to spend that money, not all of us can. Most life coaches are often over $100 per hour and don’t even understand the kind of stuff most of us on this forum are really motivated about so they lack that deeper understanding and often remain at Stage Orange. Emerald is offering a super affordable $32 for 1 hour sessions and I think it’s definitely worth more. I now have a better and more concrete plan of how to move towards my life purpose and now have a step-by-step plan on moving out from home, how I’m going to do so, have a plan on ways to work towards my own financial independence, have a well thought out process of how I’m going to access greater intuition in my life, and so on. Emerald is also very well educated and has great understanding of very important foundational psychology such as shadow work, the subconscious, trauma, and so on. This is really worth it and I hope you guys give this a shot if you’re skeptical about most life coaches who might not understand your motivations towards true spirituality and so on.

Why is a childish question if you think about it, and even if it had an answer, it would only be to serve an egoic desire to know, and wouldn't solve your 'problem'. Look at it this way, Asking why is the same as asking what is the cause/effect. Why does X exist? Because Y. Anything you could possibly fill in would be a limited, finite, and false conclusion if you're asking about the totality of reality. You cannot figure this out, that is the barrier, is the having to know. X and Y could be filled in, but it would have no bearing on reality, wouldn't leave a mark, and you'd still be somewhat dissatisfied, because of the limitation of an X and Y answer. There is a reason why not knowing is the highest form knowledge, you're already there, but ego fragment or intellect is under the delusion it can reconcile, consolidate, and disseminate information in such a way as to reflect the whole. Basically, a fragment of reality (and this is being very generous to the ego) believes it can comprehend the entire whole. There isn't anyone here to know that there is no one here. It's so unbelievable, utterly unbelievable, it can't be believed. Enlightenment is being shown to you guys as a thing, an object, a place in time, a goal, a solution, an end, a means, an attainment, an addition, a commodity, a value, etc. When in fact, there is no such THING. That is a fact, Nonduality is a fact. There is not two.

I think if just one person watched that video and was curious about what he was on about and then researched a bit and learned the basics of what he was talking about, then Jim would say he succeeded in a way. He probably knew that most people would write him off as crazy but then again, a few people might take it seriously and i think that is all hes going for. I would be happy to see more videos like this of people who are well known talking about nonduality even if they really don't know what they are saying, they can have an enormous impact and change a lot of minds. Because think of all of Jim Carries die hard fans and how most of them probably looked into non-duality to better understand what their idol was on about. I wonder if Jim will create anything with all of his power and his newfound love for the truth. He has the resources to create something beautiful i'm sure.

There are a variety of pointers. The "Everything / Nothing" pointer is commonly used by nonduality teachers. It can be a really strong pointer for some minds. It is related to understanding distinctions. It's hard to place no-self awakenings and Everything/Nothing awakenings on a relative hierarchy or linear timeline. I've had partial awakenings to no-self and Everything/Nothing. The deepest glimpse I've had was Mu - which is prior to any concepts or ideas of no-self or self.

@Consilience maybe because on a basic level you can have experiences without being much aware and having awareness without making it out to be an experience. both have very different qualities. also you can experience let’s say an elephant or you can be aware of it. or you can do both at the same time, the quality always changes - it’s the aligning of both what brings the difference, they have a dynamic - or what did you want to say? you could also maybe say, nonduality means there is no separation between consciousness and the content of awareness - but in this the awareness of consciousness itself or even in the awareness of experiencing consciousness itself.