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"Anyone that says there's no price to this whole enlightenment thing, just joy and bliss, don't be quick to buy that." BUY, Adyashanti, don't buy the thing with no price? Did someone sneeze on the free cheese samples or something? I love the variety of spiritual teachings one can say to you and not be wrong, as you navigate these tantalizingly deceptive mystic mists of the psyche. When I was a kid, my parents took me to this cave park and I got lost in a cave and I figured no one knew I was lost or cared, so it never occurred to me that the guide speaking overhead was a park guide who was actually giving me instructions on how to get out. Had to find the way on my own. Huh, this post got too journaly and personal so I decided not to reply to the thread and post here. Then I accidentally posted there. What evs I guess, everyone here knows I'm crazy anyway.

"Anyone that says there's no price to this whole enlightenment thing, just joy and bliss, don't be quick to buy that." BUY, Adyashanti, don't buy the thing with no price? Did someone sneeze on the free cheese samples or something? I love the variety of spiritual teachings one can say to you and not be wrong, as you navigate these tantalizingly deceptive mystic mists of the psyche. When I was a kid, my parents took me to this cave park and I got lost in a cave and I figured no one knew I was lost or cared, so it never occurred to me that the guide speaking overhead was a park guide who was actually giving me instructions on how to get out. Had to find the way on my own.

Dear blankisomeone: Don't worry, From what I understand: Any intense suffering / Joy after it reaches a certain threshold will inevitably turn into enlightenment. The pressure of too much pain will squeeze your mind in ways, which in some way will definitely lead to enlightenment. It is literally impossible to eternally suffer and not get enlightened. The only difference will be the different thresholds for different people. Remember Eckhart Tolle? This is why you may last much longer in a heaven. But, lasting much longer in a hell is practically impossible. Infact, concentrating on intense pain as well as intense bliss / joy are listed as some of the methods among 114 to get enlightened in "Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra". Also, there are rituals to ensure the dead get into pleasant states of existence and do not enter into such unpleasant states. The best way to ensure this is to make them think about pleasant and lovable things during death. This may not be possible all the time. Thus, the rituals. E.g: Also, the fact that Brahman/Infinite Consciousness being infinitely potent that it can also have people in eternal hells, suffering forever, can also be realized to be true. But, unless prompted by some agency which already is in existence like you or me, by imagining and meditation or by the dead people imagining such a reality like a dream due to previous tendencies will not create such a reality. Suppose lets imagine we created such a reality by wishing to see eternal hells with people suffering in them. What would happen then? This is what would happen: Since every reality is like water seen in the mirage. Such realities like any other reality will appear to you initially, known only to you. The people you see in those hells suffering would have been projected within your own consciousness temporarily with make shift people with make shift stories about their past eternal actions and sufferings in make shift hells. If you ask them to tell their stories, they will tell some stories as if it had happened to them. But, all these stories will depend on the karmic and mental structure of you who is projecting them. Just like in dreams, based on our wakeful experiences, the dreams automatically constructs realities and make us experience them. We also do not consciously control every aspect of it. It automatically happens based on our mental and karmic structure we posses. Alternatively, If you are highly enlightened and and are very conscious; you may even have good control over such a projection. Being able to project exactly the way you want it to be. Those people who learn to lucid dream also control their dreams consciously. These people being projected only because of being prompted by your own intention and imagination to see such realities, these people do not posses any karma. As such, had no prior existence prior to you imagining them. They are practically without too much sense of a separate ego self. Just like an enlightened person loses the sense of self and feels like not existing, in a way; similarly these imaginary people are practically like enlightened, without any karma, only driven by the karma of the person projecting them through his imagination. But, since these people have no prior knowledge about enlightenment and don't have too much ego, they hardly are aware of such things and do not have their own likes and dislikes. They are practically like children or somewhat like zombies. But, are very well capable of acting and behaving they way the person imagining them to be. But, all of that would appear to you as very real(In a way, it really is). All those people and those hells and stories will only last as long as their projection lasts in your conciousness. Once the projection is over, everything is over. This is exactly what happens every night, even in our dreams. If such same imaginary projections happen to last for a while, either in mediation or in the minds of people who have died. Then those imaginary people on account of having repetitive experiences will start to develop a separate ego identity and will gain a strong separate individual presence and will go on reincarnating like any other egoic entity until spiritual wisdom dawns on them. This is why I keep urging people to have enough theoretical knowledge before diving into it practically. So that you can avoid such unnecessary fears. Please read this: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die - Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover Also Bhagavad Gita.

Dear gswva, Once again: I'm not enlightened. My knowledge is only through the scriptures I read and videos that I watch online. It's very much possible my knowledge is flawed. Without enlightenment we can only speculate. Even with enlightenment, it seems there are various levels of enlightenment with different knowledge and more depth to such knowledge. Having understood this, we can only speculate. So, lets speculate: From my understanding, all the descriptions that we give about the Brahman are just that: Descriptions and Thoughts. Even the word Brahman is just a label and as such is just a thought. Neither can you say it exist, nor can you say it doesn't exist. It exists without existing. It is the pure absolute nothingness. So absolute in its emptiness that it becomes the very source of every unique thing. Yet, none of those things are different from it. They only exist in and as itself. The way we think and believe seems to be the way Brahman seem to appear to us(Just like the AI in the movie Captain Marvel). In Non-Dual Traditions: The same reality is experienced as nameless and formless but with all potential. In Bhakthi Traditions: Those who worship krishna report visiting krishna and his abode Goloka(Krishna's abode); those who worship shiva talk about their experiences of shiva; similarly the Devi(goddess) has been seen(e,g: Ramakrishna paramahamsa frequently talked with "kali devi"). Similarly, visiting heaven and christ in christianity; Egyptian gods in ancient egypt etc.. In which ever way we create our karma(Cause & Effect - Tendencies, Beliefs, Conditioning, Memories, Behaviours, etc). such seems to be our experience. Each of these worshipers actually experience reality as if their god is the one who created the entire reality and He/She/They/It is the one who is presiding over everything. Such gods actually show to their devotees through certain experiences how they are the alpha and omega of everything(Best e.g: Virat Rupa(Universal Form) of Krishna shown to Arjuna in the battlefield). During such experiences the devotees actually experience their deity to be anything and everything, with all the descriptions and experiences of non-dual liberation as well as dual liberations being present within their deity itself. Although the deity seen with a form, still at the same time being infinite; with everything present within themselves; Just like fractals although seem to have a limited form; after having zoomed in, will reveal infinite patterns with infinite depth. I'll give you just one example of how they experience their realities based on their belief: "In Gaudiya Vaishnava school of bhakthi(Devotional) tradition(ISKCON). Their deity is Krishna. They make a distinction between Material reality and Spiritual reality. Spiritual reality having many varieties of infinite realms all being completely perfect and eternal. Each realm has a certain form of Krishna presiding over that realm. There is no suffering in any of those realms whatsoever. All of them are filled only with blissful experiences. When they want to experience material reality they descend and have them and again return back to their own abodes. Anybody who develops devotion and worships Krishna believing the stories about him with full unconditional loving intensity; after getting liberation in bhakthi(Dual type liberation) and after giving up their physical body, they go to such places and stay there eternally(I doubt it being eternal - But, who knows) Then, Krishna also creates these Material reality where infinite universes are generated and dissolved again and again. Within each of which: material heavens, hells and earthly experiences are experienced according to the karma of the living entities with incarnation and reincarnation cycles going on again and again. until liberation happens. But, they say that all these material heavens and hells and earthly realms are all temporary and will get destroyed during universal dissolution. And all of them are born in a new universe and are placed in situations suitable for their karma. Also, enjoyment and suffering in earth, heaven or hellish realms are experienced only as long as the karma for such enjoyment or suffering lasts. As such, are only temporary. Karma keeps generating and doesn't run out as long as actions are done with attachment for material fruits. In this tradition, there were and still are very exalted enlightened beings who have experienced these realms/realities directly and written about them. These realities are not experienced as hallucinatory. The realities when being experienced are more profound and vivid than even our own earthly reality. In one such story, a sage during his meditation on his lord was experiencing such a realm and got his finger burnt in that realm. When he opened his eyes in our realm, his finger actually was burnt even in our realm(remember that scene in Matrix?)." The experiences mentioned above are only experienced as such by those who follow Gaudiya Vaishnava Tradition(ISKCON) which is just one sub-tradition within the vaishnava tradition within Hinduism. Like this, there are literally more than thousand of other traditions within Hinduism itself. There are 33 million gods in Hinduism it is said. Likewise, there are many different religions in other parts of the world each with their own belief and customs and traditions. Just like the e.g given above, all of them experience their LIFE based on how they create their own karma(Cause & Effect, tendencies, beliefs, conditioning, memories, behaviors, etc).. They experience their gods, heavens , hells and other such things, the way they imagined and believed. All of this is just like water in the mirage. As such you can say, it doesn't exist. But then, as some form of an imagination itself, all of it is real. Just like dreams when experienced are reacted-to-emotionally by the dreamer as being real as long as they are being experienced. Please read the sample screenshots of Yoga Vasishta from these posts first: Once you understand basics of how reality is constructed by reading the above mentioned posts, you'll understand that any reality is seen only within some mind(Jiva - Individuated atomic living entity). Just like dream world is seen within the dreamer's mind. Just as Imagination is seen within the mind of the one imagining it. There is no possibility of projecting any reality outside of a mind. Our reality is also one such reality projecting within some mind. That being the case, Every reality is only an imaginary one. Even the mind that projects it is also just a mirage. All of this duality with all its universes/realities within such minds is like a water seen in the mirage(Think of such minds as mirages and water seen in the mirages as the worlds seen in such minds). Both mirage and water seen in it are unreal. They exist without existing. Also if we assume everything is intelligently designed, afaik all "past lives" memories could be imaginary and unrelated to the actual mechanics consciousness shapes itself. I'm not denying reincarnation but I'm just saying it doesn't prove anything. Brahman and intention are incompatible with one another. It is not a personal entity. It is completely impersonal and formless. It is beyond intent and intellectualizing. There is nothing that can be said about it. Upon reaching it, all activity stops. No word or thought or imagination can touch it. It exists without existing. You are one with that Brahman they say.. A mere simple movement ( (metaphorical) which is natural and is a characteristic of Brahman; like movement of air is natural for the wind) in Brahman projects out infinite upon infinite of atomic Jiva(s)(Living entities with mind) into existence. The conscious intelligent design only happens(Not consciously happen in all of them) after the Jiva(s) have come into being within Brahman. Within the minds of those Jiva(s): world, rules and regulations, intelligence, logic all these things appear. These are NOT prior to the minds. For first appeared Primary Jiva(s), as well as secondary Jiva(s) - created within those Primary Jiva(s)'s minds; there is no karma initially. But, after acting as and within the world for some time; memories, tendencies, tastes, behavioral patterns, likes and dislikes, all of these are slowly acquired and they act as a repetitive compulsive cycles after a while, these patterns are what are called as vasanas and samskaras. These are collectively called as karma of that individual. As all the entities have such patterns, you can call it as collective karma of each of such groups. Just as when water flows upon land; creates a river bed by flowing continuously; and not able to change its path but to flow within the same riverbed after a while. Similarly, karma after creating some of it becomes a compulsive pattern, creating more and more which is hard to break. Just like a river without a riverbed disperses itself into all directions and ceases to exist as a river. Similarly, without karma, the individual will dissolve and cease to exist. Such dissolution is called liberation. Further Speculation: "Not all those Jiva(s) projecting such worlds within them are very intelligent. So these primitive, first order Jivas only project some dumb random, abstract, useless, not so sophisticated; not so very conscious reality within themselves. Initially they don't possess any knowledge whatsoever. After their death. After having gone through several cycles of interaction with other jivas through reincarnation in other jiva(s)'s universes as one of the living entities in those universes and having evolved into higher conscious states(through such interaction by natural evolution which happens randomly as well as driven by karma) as human beings or other such entities, they get more knowledge. These Jivas after their death in other Jiva's mental world/universe/realm might project very sophisticated universes within their own mind(Even during the lowly evolved states they may project some unsophisticated universes within themselves in some of the after-life cycles). Such projection may not happen within each after-life cycle; only when a compatible universe is not found for the karma that this jiva currently possesses that this Jiva may create such a projection. Even then it may simply wait in limbo for a compatible universe. Again, these projections either sophisticated or unsophisticated; may not be conscious ones. Just like our dreams are not experienced with lucidity with full consciousness of knowing them to be dreams. Similarly these projections may also happen unconsciously within themselves. Within these projected universes, there will be numerous Jiva(s) either reincarnated from other realities who have qualities which are compatible with this universe, or newly created ones without having had any karma before. These newly created jivas, can be directly human beings, deities, or any other such evolved beings which the jiva projecting the universe has previous knowledge of. These other jivas each further creating a universe within themselves in their after-life periods, with more jivas within them...with the cycle going ad-infinitum". As far as Reincarnation is concerned, since it happens only with-in the mirage like realities/universes, it also is just a type of illusory experiential cycle experienced in them. Although just an illusory experiential cycle, it does exist however as such; driven by karma. We do have strong evidence for that. As I already presented. You need to understand first that, even the universal mind which projects the world as well as the entities incarnate and reincarnate within it, both/all of them are bound by their karma. Although, if more conscious the Jiva becomes, more ability it has - to act with freedom/freewill with less influence from karma. Some Yogis/saints/sages may take the position of such universal mind and project some highly sophisticated realities/universes/realms. Such Universal minds(Jivas(s)) may be with almost absolute freedom(E.g: Krishna in Goloka - Such Jiva(s) are not called as Jiva(s) They are called Bhagawan-Supreme Gods and goddesses for those who worship them). The Abodes/Realities/Universes/Worlds/Heavens what ever you want to call it; created by such Bhagawan/God like entities who have attained very highly unimaginable levels of consciousness/awareness are the worlds where suffering and reincarnation doesn't exist. Whether these worlds exist eternally or not I don't know. It may be a possibility, but I'm not sure. There may be infinite such worlds with varying degrees of sophistication. Depending upon the consciousness prevailing in any reality, reincarnation may or may not be a fact in that reality. May be even in our own realities, not every one reincarnate. I don't know how it works. What I do know is: Karma is what drives reincarnation or any other experience as an individuated entity. Having understood all of this clearly. Keeping the example of Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition in mind. If we think about each of the models you have presented, Even though you have presented them as if each of your models encompass all of absolute existence. Still it is possible to reduce them into different possible realities and it is easily possible that each of those models of reality may be truly be experienced in some of those universes/realities in some of those minds imagining/creating them. Even if such realities doesn't exist anywhere now, they can still be created by imagining them in a certain state of mind, either through Meditation(like mentioned in Yoga Vasishta) or even after Physical Death by keeping on intensely imagining them again and again in your living time now. So, scriptures say that In what ever state of mind you leave your body, during death, that state you'll attain without fail. This is just like how we dream at night about those things which we intensely contemplated in our waking state. Also, you'll only experience those realities and experiences, about which you have knowledge of or atleast related to your mental and karmic structure as a natural progression of your karma. Absolutely random experiences may be a very rare phenomenon. What I meant is if everything is created before merging together or if nothing splits itself until it finds itself again Not necessary for all of creations to merge before other cycle of creations emerge. Infinite creations are keeping on emerging and dissolving infinitely in infinite minds simultaneously. This cycle never stops. Such is the nature of Brahman - Just like breathing is the nature of a human being. Having said that, this is only from the view given in the book:Yoga Vasishta. But, this also depends on your beliefs and world view. Remember: that you only experience what your mental structure believes and allows. The video posted above of Rupert Spira has somewhat a good explanation. For this very reason some people may remember some other people's experiences & memories as their own(As one can read somewhat similar experiences in Yoga Vasishta). But, he seems to assume all the individuated entities as loosely bound with loose covering. But, It is only true for certain individuals in certain states of karma and for certain periods and types of disembodiment. After death, it seems; generally the individuated entities are tightly bound with remaining 4 layers(more like aspects than layers) of coverings mostly intact which I have mentioned in my previous posts. Because of this, these entities acquiring the karmas and memories of other's may be rare. The obscure thing to me is what happens after the state of oneness and how would you know that. If it's empty/void awareness, or non-individualized infinite creation. In the first case, form = fear, duality directly yields the illusion of ego. In the latter case, form =/= fear, ego is not necessary to the awareness of anything. We also need to know if we can split ourselves again or not. May be we need to experience Non-Dual enlightenment to understand this. "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" has said that merging into brahman is like a salt doll walking into the ocean. After merging with the ocean there is no coming back. Seems like all non dual scriptures say the same thing. I haven't studied all of them though. May be those who suffer too much choose to dissolve when such an opportunity presents itself. Whereas, those who improve more and more through their effort gain new heights of awareness and consciousness creating their own realities and living in it with full bliss eternally(? - I'm not sure). Sadhguru says in his book that there is no need to keep extending the individuation as every kind of universe has same fundamental structures. But, I don't agree with it. If it has no value; then, why are others creating such realities and keeping their individuation. He himself admitted that he doesn't have much scriptural knowledge. Maybe, too much confidence in one's own ability without proper theoretical knowledge may create such illusions. Also, as I mentioned already, you can only experience those experiences you believe and have knowledge about. Interestingly in the Gaudiya vaishnava tradition, although some of them say that such merging is a permanent suicide. Others say that even attaining liberation through merging with brahman is useless because it is only temporary and after a while they again fall down from that position. May be in this situation is where Rupert Spira's explanation may make sense, because during merging with Brahman there are no coverings and all those layers are completely dismantled. So the memories, tendencies and karma of all the merged individuals remain in the reservoir of Brahman and some of the newly created entities in the universes are created with the template of combination of already existing karmas and experiences from the Brahman reservoir and their individual constitution is made in such a way, that each of those newly created individuals are perfectly compatible with the universal mind which is imagining them according to its karma, For those individuals where such combination is not immediately available, maybe only they are created freshly without any karma. Maybe because the newly created individuals in this manner are not entirely uniquely their own selves as they previously were, it is for this reason that it may have been said that: once merged, its finished. It may also be possible that some or all of these merged entities when there is a compatible universe exists, each of these entire entities is brought back with the same configuration. And as such experience themselves as same persons they were before in one of their previous incarnations. The above cases makes sense because it is said that by doing samyama any information can be retrieved that one wishes to retrieve. It would only be possible if all the information is stored permanently somewhere. It is also possible that only information is permanent and not the individuals themselves with all their karmic configurations. Above all, it is also highly possible that each of these cases is possible in some versions of cultural realities whose cultures imagine realities in such different manners mentioned above. Absolutely anything seems to be possible(Both Possibility as well as Impossibility). In order to get proper understanding of reality, you have to read both of these books completely: (Even then you may not understand everything, But will definitely improve your knowledge) Please read this book(Yoga Vasishta) without skipping anything: https://estudantedavedanta.net/The-Supreme-Yoga-Swami-Venkatesananda.pdf Death - An Inside Story: A book for all those who shall die Book by Sadhguru: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Death_An_Inside_Story/ydzQDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

Even the author there said he was in heavenly stages, Bliss and he fell into the void to finalize his awakening. Running away from bliss into nothingness what curious creatures we are.

I hope I'm not getting affected in long term. I already forgot but I saw, and it's going to appear again. I hope Leo or the experience people here could help me. I'm not scared to do it again 1000 times because nothing could be worse, and maybe, next time I could see any life, anything in that horrible void. I'm criying because I can't escape. My mind is telling: don't worry, sure it's normal and if you go further you will see the bliss...but I saw the last last nothing, empty, and was dead, was ....only nothing....like sad, no escape, can't explain

@Stakres "Areas you want to work on", and your milestones sounds way too serious and heavy in my opinion. Lighten it up, make it fun with no end goal or objective. Start small, really small. Look up an old song you love but haven't heard in years, or an old web comic. Buy a treat at the grocery store you wouldn't think to buy for yourself. That sort of thing, get creative and got by the feeling of what really lights you up. What's crazy is watching how the way to the big stuff unravels and becomes clear from the smallest things. What matters is that you follow your heart and follow your bliss. Discounting the little stuff in life is a way we sneakily discount our very selves.

It's counter-intuitive: the chasing of bliss is the very thing which prevents it. Bliss is a consequence of fully facing one's fear and not needing to manipulate your experience. It's problematic to be doing psychedelics with the expectation of bliss. I would drop that expectation and instead aim for Truth and understanding. Bliss is the fruit off the tree of understanding. Focus on watering the roots of your tree rather than jumping like a thirsty monkey at the unripened green fruits.

@Leo Gura I thought was that after shot in the face you experience the other side: total bliss. So I concluded to better get over the nasty part as quickly as possible and the enjoy the bliss part. But yeah slow and steady wins the race is another approach I try with 5 meo. I am still on low dose 5 meo and 2 mg plugging (with boofing technique) is already challenging. I want to make a break and work on myself and then I want to come back. I am low vibration now because of a breakup. The dose on 5 meo I can master is my spiritualy benchmark. I only will raise if I experience bliss on the dose before.

I did scientific tests bro. Repeated tested and observed. Consistent. With one batch I tried it 5 times in a row and felt disphoric, twisted and confusing. Had to sit down and breath when my head started to seriously spin after. With the batch I have now...it's just pure Bliss every time. Noticable difference. I'm not saying all batches will be different...but mate it's just chemistry, each batch will not be 100% the same as each other. I'm just saying that different batches of 5meo have different effects. One easy way to tell if the batch is pure (if purity is indeed what the problem is) is that pure 5meo will cause something like a full body orgasm. Many do not experience this whatsoever Simply put, there is such a thing as shit 5meo that causes disphoria, as opposed to euphoria consistently Which is, in my opinion, an extremely important piece if information for someone who seems to be struggling with their 5meo to the point where it's unreasonable. This is very important to note for newbies. There is good 5meo and there is bad 5meo. My stuff was labeled, tested and reviewed. For someone like obeler, he could have shit 5meo. My research shows its extremely possible, and actually likely...if bought...online... And this one piece if information could be the difference between someone giving you on 5meo or not. And considering 5meo is one of the most powerful tool we have, if not the most important, it makes this one observation quite an important one?? peace and love to you friend @Corpus♥️

@beastcookie What would it be to see through the veil of sex & body, to know the source of mindless bliss? ...Not to settle for the cover story, the projection, the assumption, the apparent? Scrutinize...has touch ever actually happened? ....like wise, sex...reproduction...living? See through biology, neurology, quantum mechanics, to & through transmission.

Hm oke I also been there. Thats how I do it - Before the trip I set the intention to overcome my fear and to find out what its about. I lay down and do nothing and when the fear comes I let it overcome me. Then I investigate it like what is all that fear about? Whats the problem? How does it exactly feel and why is it there? This time can be really horrible and is not enjoyable at all but after some time there is a breaking point and for example last time I realized that I am fighting against my self and in that moment I just gave up. After that it was all love and bliss. I think you have to accept the fear to overcome it. Sometimes it takes 2-3 trips to work it out but in the end its always worth it. Hope this helps you!

How do we integrate the outer life and the inner life What happens to the soul? The body reaches a peace point at death because it ceases to exist and is liberated from all suffering. It reaches to nothingness. It's over But the soul reaches peace when it reaches the purple state of spirituality, the state in which the spiritual forces are the strongest and the purest. It's a pure spiritual state. A state of bliss and freedom. A state of growth and peace and stability. A state of joyousness and pure love and compassion and truth and kindness and liberation. A state of eternal romance of light and love. Pure wisdom and Innocence. A captivating state that never gets boring. Pure beauty and rapture. A permanent state of joy, ecstacy, rapture, purity and eternity. Pure beauty. This is how it might look. A beautiful purple lake with a calming peaceful aesthetic. A purple rapture, a purple heaven. A place where your soul rests in true happiness, harmony and peace. Eternal rapture The body achieves peace when it's liberated from suffering at death. Because the body is temporary. It should be freed after eventual degradation. The soul is permanent, immortal, eternal and so it achieves peace when it reaches a state of eternal joy in the purple lake. The body is looking for peace. The soul is looking for joy. This conflict of interest ends at death.

Go study how psychedelics work on a metaphysical level. Take a psychedelic and focus your awareness on how consciousness is changing and WHY. Before taking the psychedelic, notice what your consciousness is like compared to an ordinary day. You'll notice your consciousness is actually heightened before taking the psychedelic purely because you're about to take one. Question why your consciousness increases when you feel bliss, and all the other stuff that happens on a psychedelic. Why is it that psychedelic phenomena = higher consciousness? Whose projecting that? Why isn't the office desk just as high conscious as bliss and being a tv monitor, or the entire universe or dmt machine elves or seeing visuals? What's so special about that stuff compared to your office desk? Its a projection. You're projecting that psychedelic states are higher conscious than your office desk because blablabla and therefore that makes you actually go to higher states of consciousness. You're projecting that as part of the matrix or maya or illusion you're in, as part of the story you're in. Its a way of maintaining your story as a human being. If you were to admit that your office is just as groundless as psychedelic states like dmt machine elves, then your story would be fucked, so you did something clever and projected the idea of psychedelics, mystical states, etc. And projected the idea of the 'normal' world and the 'psychedelic' or 'mystical state' world, and separated and projected a difference between the two. The reality is they aren't 2, they are ONE. They are the same. But your reality would be destroyed by admitting that, so you created the 2 to maintain your lower/egoic consciousness. Its like you're asking, "how the hell are you able to turn off healing yourself when you're given a placebo antibiotic that's actually made of salt rather than antibiotics".

I'd suggest going for only 1 trip (since it's a short retreat). And I'd say shrooms (but LSD is probably fine too, just my preference). I'd suggest somewhere between 2,0 and 3,5 g as a dosage. Up to you. Less is more sometimes. Perhaps 2,5 g? If you do LSD then between 100-150 ug, perhaps 100ug is fine if you know the LSD is of good quality. You have to leave time between trips to integrate, I'd say. I feel the after affects of a strong psychedelic trip for days afterwards. For instance, meditation is often (much) deeper for many days after a psychedelic trip. Do the pychedelic in the middle of your retreat. So if your retreat is friday-sunday, do it saturday. Bliss to you! EDIT: If you decide, anyway, to do shrooms/LSD 2 days in a row (which I again, dont recommend, but up to you!), then yes, there will be *some* cross-tolerance given the trips are only 1 day apart. It depends on dosage. LSD lasts a few hours longer, so it would be wise to do the shrooms first (to minimize tolerance; the longer a drug works in the brain, the more tolerance you build to it. If you do 2,5 grams of shrooms, then you would probably need to do 125-150 ug LSD the next day to feel what 100ug LSD would normally feel like).

@OBEler Hmm, I don't know, 5 mg seems a little... what's the opposite of excessive? Incessive? Lol. I know from my experience with shrooms that there is that awkward spot between low/medium high and 'heroic' doses - which for me is around the 5g mark - where reality starts melting away but the ego is still intact (which is always an unpleasant experience); a 7g trip, on the other hand, is pure orgasmic bliss. So when it comes to 5-Meo, I am wondering if it might not be a good idea to just skip the zone of awkwardness altogether and go straight for the jackpot, you see?

Hello everyone, Yesterday I had my first experience with the magical substance we call 5-MeO-DMT (HCI). I’m usually not one to write or post about my experiences, however I decided that I wanted to post about this. Most of all because the posts in this forum helped me a lot with my research before trying this and I hope my experience might help other as well. After all, we’re all on this journey together. Prior psychedelics experience Mushrooms, ayahuasca Basic info Dose: 11mg RoA: Insufflated Setting: Alone, in my own house Music: None Preparing and taking the 5-MeO I had two free days of work to try this for the first time, my initial plan was to use on both days. But later I will explain why I won’t do that. On the day of using I had a normal breakfast in the morning and after that still ate a banana. I waited till at least three hours after the banana so that my empty stomach would hopefully prevent any possible nausea. This worked very well, I would rate the nausea of my trip a 1 on a scale of 0-10. As it’s not easy for me to find a sitter I decided to try it alone. The research I had done made me comfortable enough to this. For what I’ve read people said that 10-12mg is a good starting dose so I decided to start with 11mg for the first time to see how I would react. I prepared a room to be safe for doing this. I weighed the 11mg and divided this in 2 equal lines and snorted one line per nostril. As I’ve read here on the forum I snorted with little power, got it all up there and then massaged it into my nostrils. The burning sensation (before & after) I found very doable, I would say a 3 on a scale of 0-10. The onset At this point I was still sitting up straight, gently massaging it into the nostrils while leaning my head a bit forward. I was of course a bit excited for what was to come, but felt comfortable. After some minutes the first thing I felt was a deep ‘buzzing’ sensation in my awareness, in some way similar to that of mushroom. My ego immediately though ‘Oh shit, what have I done’. This made the sensation go away again. Therefore I decided to lay myself down on the matrass. I laid down in fetes position, because I wanted to prevent to possible suddenly be out of my body and puking. Slowly but surely it got more intense. My thoughts and mind started to be clearer, like there was less unnecessary noise. However my ego tried de desperately grasp around it. Trying to rationalise everything that happened. I spent some time still looking at my hand, in some way to stay connected to the ‘reality’ of the ego. In between I shortly sit up straight again, my ego was really trying to keep control of the body. I had shortly a moment that my teeth where clattering and felt a little of saliva going out of my mouth. I was still aware enough to brush it off with my hand and decided to lay down again and surrender to the sensation. The peak All this time I still had my eyes open. I was laying on my side and looking at the wall. I started to feel more and more distanced from my body (really couldn’t tell if it felt heavier or lighter). Because of this I also gave up on looking to my hand (which I was doing again) and laid it on the floor. I told my ego to just let go. I was no longer looking at the wall with focus, everything became a vague blur. The more I could let go the more intense everything became. I started to close my eyes. I felt that my consciousness was being taken elsewhere. The best way to describe it is the void was calling me. I felt but the tiniest fraction of this vast nothingness. It was not scary at all, it was pretty calming somehow. For a short moment there where 0 thought and no awareness of the body at all. However this was in no way calming for my ego. Who still desperately tried to survive. While I experienced this fraction of the void, my ego was yelling ‘Hey bro, are you sure you are still breathing?’ From the moment I closed my eyes to this moment felt like maybe 5-10 seconds (very hard to say for sure though, but this is what I’d estimate). The ego made me aware that I was no longer aware of the fact that I was breathing. The ego managed to ‘scare’ me enough so that it felt like I wasn’t breathing. I took a deep breath and opened my eyes (still laying sideways). It felt like I was pulled out of this nothingness with such great force and smacked back into the reality of the ego. In some way this felt slightly like being reborn (or coming back, I’m sure it’s nothing compared to how a full breakthrough feels). Even though I was only gone for a mere few seconds it felt amazing to feel the breath going in my lungs and being a bit aware of my body. My ego immediately tried to rationalize again. Trying to figure out if I really wasn’t breathing or if it was only a sensation. I read about this sensation before, I tried to accept that it was just part of the experience and that I should let go. The same thing happened a few times more, I would say 5-6 times in total. Every time the ego said on what felt like the very last moment ‘Dude, breathe!’ In the moment I felt like I wasn’t breathing I tried to feel if my body was breathing without my noticing it. In some way it felt like it did, but I couldn’t be sure. After I took these breaths I also didn’t feel too much out of breath. But it was also very hard to say how long these very short moments in the nothingness really were. These 5-6 times were very intense. It felt like I was jumping in between realms, however not fully leaving the realm of the ego. I obviously couldn’t let go. I wasn’t ready enough to die yet. I felt a mere fraction of what is out here and something told me that this was enough for today. The offset After this I went back to sitting up straight. I know I probably didn’t even go so deep, but man what a ride it was. When sitting up straight everything suddenly became so clear, how there is such a perfect harmony in everything. As others here also describe it, I would say this feeling was pure bliss. This feeling gave me many realizations. How controlling I am in life, how hard it is for me to let go of things I hold on to. All this suffering I do for myself, truly for no reason at all. Everything just made so much sense. It was such a calming feeling. I sat with my hands in my head, with a big smile and almost crying of some sort of relief. Man, what did I waste so much energy on unnecessary things. And what a big joke it just all was. I felt a lot of love. After some point I became more active with my body again. First moving my arms around a bit which felt great. A bit later I decided to go to the toilet and have a glass of water on the couch. I felt so at peace. I ate some fruit and it tasted much more intense than normally. My awareness was still really high and I just enjoyed watching the trees outside. This feeling slowly faded more, also as the ego was trying to get fully back and offering me to go do some chores. Since then I still feel much calmer than usual. The night after I’ve read about it here more often that people have some after affects while sleeping after using this substance. In the night after using I woke up a few times. This isn’t anything unusual for me, however the weird thing is that usually you don’t notice it that much. Now it felt like I want from deep sleep to fully awake in a mere second multiple times. Later in the night I woke up for longer. I was hearing voices talking. First I thought, is it the neighbours in their garden? But it was the middle of the night. When I focused on it, it got more and more intense. To at some point it felt like there was the chattering of a 100 people in my mind. I thought it was probably because of the 5-MeO and told myself to let it go. When I let it go, it was gone immediately. However these kind of sensations went on and off for some time, as I had to focus on not hearing things. It was a bit stressing, but nothing too much. Later in the night I still had a very intense dream and also a nightmare, however I’m not sure in how far this was related to the substance. Conclusion In conclusion I look back on a positive first trip which has already given me some important insights. I have to stop trying to control everything so much and allow myself to enjoy this beautiful dance. All the suffering I endure, I create myself. As I’ve described I first wanted to use the second day again. However, because of the breathing and the weird night sleep I first want to wait a bit with it. It doesn’t feel right today. First I want to see if the sleeping gets back to normal before I might make things worse. As for the breathing, I would also like to hear the opinion from experienced people here. I know that not everybody has this sensation, but is it okay to fully let go of it? I know Leo commented somewhere that this can be lethal at high dosages, but does this make it safe in normal dosages? I’ve read somewhere that this sensation is not a genuine or dangerous sensation (see Psychonaut-wiki). Of course I am aware that you shouldn’t take this if you’re not willing to let go. I want to treat this substance with the care and respect it needs and might have to consider to otherwise to find a sitter or to stop my journey. I hope you’ve enjoyed reading this report and that I might be able to help some others by sharing this experience. I wish you all the best!

Contemplate these concepts for yourself " An enlightened being who is constantly high on bliss "is just a funny Fantasy in my opinion. It doesn't make any physical sense even. This is enlightenment. You are looking at it. It's not event that happens to your non-existing ego.

Its a rabbit hole. In hindu literature you will find many ways of meditation - kriya, dhyana, bhakti, puja, nirahara, ajapajapa, shoonya, purnattva, tyaga, tapas e.c.t. Spiritual practice is really independent and necessary by itself, because it will purify you in ways and intensity you never dreamed of. It will make you acess the meditativeness more easily to enjoy the pleasures more completely and ultimately suffer less and less. It is a very unfortunate thing calling just about anything as meditation, for example, playing an instrument or really enjoying something like a game of football e.c.t. or after some positive event in your life; yes, that can be meditative but only unonsciously, the access there is dependant on external factors. But with spiritual practice your life energies and access of the bliss will be more and more in your hands. I don't think i can give you an accurate description of how to. You have to look for somebody else for tips like searching Leos videos e.c.t.

Insights Today: 1. Accepting reality does not mean accepting devilry or delusion. It does not mean accepting 'bad', 'evil', 'corruption', 'judgement', 'hatred', etc. It means accepting the thing that causes those judgements. Accept the thing that causes those judgements, but replace the judgements with optimism, love, passion, bliss, 'being proud', etc. For example if you're socially awkward. Accepting reality does not mean accepting that you're a no hoper, or that you're bad with humans, etc. It means accepting the awkwardness that causes the judgements of being a no hoper or bad with humans. Then loving that awkwardness, being optimistic that the awkwardness can be loved by others and can lead you to living a good life (reframing the awkwardness from = lack of prosperity to = lots of prosperity) is beautiful, funny, cool, cute, and you should be proud of it. 2. Handling the macro and micro. Macro = hands off. Micro = hands on. When inventing a solution to a problem, and you're the leader of a team, give your employees the macro tasks, but be hands on and largely do the micro tasks yourself (if you're a creator like me). The micro task being the 'linchpin' or the crux of the whole idea. The important part, the gem, the oracle or the heart of the entire thing.

Exercise: Suffering I have experienced forms of suffering, such as: bad self esteem in school- was bullied a lot from middle school on, and had no friends from that time until I went to college. Then I realized homosexuality and was alienated from my dogmatic christian family. Thank god I had my mom, who also had her own awakening around the same time I did….actually she beat me to it and gave me the space for it to manifest. Thanks mom!! Suffering does not drag on continuously, thankfully there are also moments of clarity, love, completeness, and contentedness. Its interesting, I do not feel suffering in much of my life outside work, unless I'm at home thinking about work. Work brings 99% suffering, even though there are many things going on at home like termite damage in house and a depressed, possibly bipolar husband. Much energy is spent thinking about work. Home seems like a cake-walk. I meet this suffering by whining, avoiding, tantrums, covering, compartmentalizing, obsessing, hating, loving, questioning. Possibly running to an alternate form of suffering. The core of experience of my emotional pain? Fear of uncertainty. I'm scared of the unknown, every bit as scared as when I used to love it. I still love uncertainty on a great roller coaster or amazing cinematic experience. The unknown could also bring pain, and I'm obsessively scared of pain. Even seeing that pain is self inflicted, that fear remains. It exists because i believe in it. Sorry, I love beliefs. Kind of addicted to them, in a way that I don't mind identifying with them. They're beautiful. And they make a wonderful excuse for many things. Such as not letting go of them. An unnoticed suffering would be: maybe what I'm doing to my body, since I don't think long term and only about what I see right now, which is not immediate changes from how it's treated. I endure it because… its inevitable. A cultural-matrix self will inevitably suffer, like the best kind of art. Culture itself is ART. I definitely see the manifestation of suffering. It's built on the foundation of self-doubt and emptiness. Of want. Of believing thought. I get nothing out of this suffering, except perhaps the dopamine rush of bliss when the suffering ends and I feel peace once more. I become disinterested in everything except how much my life sucks in relation to what is bringing suffering. I'm very dramatic.

So you're telling us that there is no reward upon reaching the end of the tunnel, or am I misunderstanding something? Maybe you mean there's no bliss at the material level, but at some kind of meta-level there must be bliss and ecstasy to be found, right? If not, then what is it exactly that incentivizes one to move toward God and Love? Doesn't make any sense.

After a day I think the ayahuasca I had did affect me more than I expected, because my baseline was a bit lower than it was on the ayahuasca. Orientation for living a good life: Life is a play/dance/story/movie/dream. Its made of magical pixie dust (aka consciousness). Life becomes not fun when you take it too seriously, when you fear death and don't see the bigger picture: which is the entire point of life is to create for the sake of creating, because as God you love your creations and you love creating. Bliss and Love IS creating. When you fear death, and fear other stuff, you start projecting stuff that isn't fun and isn't true, such as your coworkers don't like you, you're bad at blablabla, you're evil, you're a monster, lava and certain items are poisonous and bad, etc. Its so much more beautiful to see lava as a dream, rather than to see it as something that can kill you. Compare the lava in real life vs the lava in legends of zelda. Notice that the lava in legends of zelda is 1000x more beautiful than the lava in real life? That's because the legends of zelda lava can't kill you! Notice that horror movies are so much more fun when you're conscious that they are just movies. Not real. Too much immersion = fear. Not enough immersion = cynicism, nihilism, stupid adviata vedanta traps like everything is an illusion, intellectual detachment. Get the balance right. The bigger picture of life is to create! Create beautiful, amazing awesome things. If you do that, you're in tune with God. If you don't do that, you're fucked, and FYI low self esteem, fear, devilry, self deception, etc. Is not beautiful creation. Beautiful creation is passionate creation. Creation that brings you bliss and love. Instead of life being a 3D world, its actually a language designed for God to communicate to you Truth, Love and Bliss. And God communicates to you this way due to Your love of creation. He doesn't tell you stuff directly, because by telling you stuff indirectly, he can create an epic play in the process of your waking up process.

No. In practice it's very hard to eliminate such judgments and survival habits. Survival is seriously stubborn. No, I'm rarely in a blissful state. Some days I feel shitty. It all depends. There is the spiritual ideal, and then there is your actual life. And they are very different. You have to be very careful with this goal of bliss and happiness. You're likely yo be disappointed on that front.

To give my own oppinion,maybe Jesus Christ's teachings about Adam and Eve's ancestral sin could be a answer! I am a Christian and i am biased but maybe God's will is for alive beings to experience duality! Both suffering&hardship and bliss&well being!And any kind of little bliss state must be hard earned!I don't take Christian teachings litteraly but rather as metaphors for spiritual understanding! Maybe that is God's will and that the reality we experience must be this way! Without only rainbows and butterflies!