Search the Community

Try to understand. It's the perspective that can't be "perspectived." Because it's by definition the cumulation of all, including the one your thinking right now. The mind can conceptualize it as a perspective, but that is an aping. Nonduality is not a perspective. If it was, who or what would be perceiving it? And a perspective, by definition, is a singular point of view! Also notice that the mind can only hold one perspective at a time.

@Yousef sort of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think nonduality is the infinity perspective, containing all other perspectives. But the word perspective kind of breaks down here, because a perspective requires something to perceive it. All perspectives are fundamentally partial. But nonduality is itself, it can't go outside itself to view itself. It created itself. So it's not so much a perspective as it is all of reality. That's why you need a direct experience of nonduality, because it can't be grasped only from the mind.

@Rilles that's in the dream, at least, because you're the only thing conscious in the dream. Think of minecraft, as you move through the world it gets rendered, and the next village over doesn't exist until it's a certain number of chunks away. Now what if the very fabric of waking reality is consciousness? If everything was directly rendered and aware of itself, even deep space? If we're in a giant, connected mind? Think of your dream, but make a huge recontextualization, that you could simultaneously inhabit several perspectives, but the ultimate viewpoint is nonduality.

@sarapr You must be very new to nonduality. Logic is just one facet of intelligence. However, you can't grasp nothingness with your logical mind and you can't use symbols to encapsulate reality. Your logical mind is finite, reality is infinite. When asked about enlightenment and nothingness, Bodhidharma replied - there is nothing to say, there is nothing to teach. However, you must study and learn, but you also must practise diligently. Find a balance between the two. I said this metaphor to someone here yesterday, but it illustrates what we are discussing quite well, so here it is: What disappears the moment you say its name? Answer: - Silence You see the more you try to explain what silence is to someone, the further from the truth you will be. The more words, language and sounds you make to explain what silence is, the more you will puzzle that person. The only way to understand silence is to stop philosophising about it, become quiet - and there it is. In his videos, Leo is using his finger to point at the moon and you are paying so much attention to his finger that you are missing the moon.

What I present here are Leo's original 65 core principles (plus 2 of my own), compiled and organized into an extremely helpful list to help orient you through life. I call it "The Compass." For this is a man-made tool to help guide you through the turbulent oceans and wild mountains of everyday life. This compass POINTS to Truth, but is itself just a collection of symbols. I have found this guide to be extremely accurate and useful in my own life so far. If you haven't already, please watch The 65 Core Principles Of Living The Good Life as Leo goes into much more juicy detail on each principle. All credit for this post goes to @Leo Gura. The first 4 principles are the purposes of life. Orient your life to embody these: Raise your consciousness. Raise your capacity to love. Take in the beauty of life. To feel alive! To not have a single day where you're just going through the motions. The key to this is to bring consciousness into every task, even the most mundane. Practice present conscious awareness and acceptance. There is no suffering to be found here. (This is my own principle I added) Ego is the root of all human problems and suffering. Self-deception. Self-bias. All fear, all judgment, all evil, all anger, and all suffering are delusion and falsehood. Do not demonize anyone. No ideology or dogma of any kind. Be radically open-minded. Recognize that you enter this world not knowing anything. You must explore all facets of reality without any pre-judgments, for you truly do not know a thing unless you've experienced it. Being close-minded cuts you off from direct experience. Also recognize that many of the deepest truths are counter-intuitive and will appear silly or crazy on the surface. Question everything. Especially the most "obvious" things, as those are often the most misunderstood. Question the outside world as well as your inside one. Literally. Everything. Direct experience is King. In order to cut through the bullshit of society and your own mind, ground yourself in your present direct experience. Do not judge things which you have not personally experienced. If someone talks to you about something you've never explored, keep your mouth shut and your ears open. Self-experimentation is the only way to truly find what works. This requires radical open-mindedness. Prioritize big picture thinking over technical knowledge. Care about philosophical and metaphysical matters. Genuinely care about the Truth no matter the cost. Love Truth for Truth's sake. The Vow; my blood. Genuinely intend to understand every point of view. Appreciate that the world is nothing but different perspectives. Integral thinking. Spiral dynamics stage yellow. From studying multiple perspectives, gain a meta-perspective at the intersections of all. What does that tell us about life? Every point of view is fundamentally partial; there is a sliver of Truth to be found in every perspective. Pull from hundreds of diverse sources. When you do this, the Truth gets triangulated and the big picture emerges. Lifelong learning and self-education. Cultivate a thirst for knowledge and wisdom. This process should never end. Do not be cheap with your self-education. Develop a system for taking notes and organizing the information, such as a commonplace book. Observation. The essence of learning is observation. It is through observation that insights come. Build your metaphysical connection to reality. This is what spirituality is. You are not an object that exists in the universe, you are existence itself; you ARE the universe. Do the opposite of what everyone else is doing (of course don't be dogmatic about it, be conscious of how you apply this). Reality is deeply counter-intuitive. Expect that reality will work the exact opposite of how you think it will, until you get experience with it. Absolute Truth exists, but it cannot be thought, imagined, communicated, spoken, written, proven, or argued. Nonduality is the ultimate Truth. Reality is perfect. Reality is infinite and God is a real thing. The word God points to infinity. You are God. Remove ego from this realization. You created yourself, you are everything. Only when you realize you are God will you take full responsibility for your life. Reality is not material. It is a giant mind. It is all imaginings within a mindscape, and mindscape is all that there ever is. All one. Life is a dream. And like a dream, it is possible to awaken from it. That is, to become lucid and stop taking it so seriously. 99.9+% of people are deluded and asleep, and they don't know about any of these deeper principles. Which means you can't look to others for guidance on this path. When it comes to your own well-being, you are essentially alone. This doesn't mean you can't find help in a specific avenue where someone has complete mastery of, like a doctor or therapist or counselor. However, very, very few people could ever provide you with proper guidance in big picture thinking, and the only true guidance is to look within yourself. It's all there. I understand that these principles serve as a compass to help orient me, not a Holy Book itself. Question everything, but do the work. All of these principles make sense to me now but wouldn't have just a couple years ago. This is only because of my direct experience. Society is still in the Dark Ages. We are still in adolescence as a species. Very pathological and dysfunctional. God is the devil. This is a distinction that collapses. When you understand, you'll stop seeing evil in the world, and that all the "bad" things do in fact have a higher purpose and intelligence behind them. All identity is relative and fluid. The goal is to dis-identify with your egoic constructions and to start aligning with one-ness and Truth. This is the trick to overcoming death. Or put another way, it is the trick to realizing you're already "dead," to overcome that fear. Out of this nothingness, you can truly start living. Everything is relative. A thing is only known in relation to something else. Prioritize context over facts. Recontextualization is an extremely helpful tool. Everything boils down to inner game. Your psychology. Everything you think is "external" is actually a reflection of you. Authenticity. In every facet of your life. Develop a life purpose. Figure out who you are and what you want out of life. Without this, you get the default--mediocrity. Be a strategic motherfucker. The 7 pillars of strategic thinking are: 1. Strategic Intent, 2. Strategic Analysis, 3. Strategic Preparation, 4. Concentration of Force, 5. Detailed Execution, 6. Adaptability, 7. Study of Principles. Watch Leo's video with the same title. Take 100% responsibility. Anything less is suffering. Be a leader. Be proactive. Be decisive. Take risks. Be a creator. Tap into the joy of creativity. Provide massive value to mankind. Become a master at something. This should directly be tied to your life purpose. Reason and rationality cannot be trusted. All the highest insights are trans-rational. Embrace confusion, paradox, and not knowing. Develop emotional mastery. It is emotion that dominates the reasoning process. Integrate the masculine and the feminine. Do not lie. (my own rule, but one worth saying. Of course, follow this consciously. This should be 99%+ true, not necessarily 100%. Be aware that in many cases you feel like you should lie, there's a way to structure the truth in a way that's more acceptable. You should never tell a bold-faced lie. By lying, you actually poison yourself and stray from authenticity.) Do not manipulate. Satisfy your base needs so that you stop craving. Using Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs to self actualize video. Master your basic survival and livelihood. Learn business. Learn how money works. Keep your life simple and spartan. Practice minimalism. When your life frees up, the ego mind will seek to fill it with various obligations, commitments, and distractions. Use that time instead for personal development. Be a systems thinker. Develop an awareness for the ecological interconnectedness of things. Leo's Intro to systems thinking video. Think ecologically. How are you impacting the world? Be conscious. Happiness is only possible with enlightenment. No material possessions will ever make you happy. This is more certain than the laws of physics. Learn to be happy all by yourself. If you can't be happy sitting on your couch doing nothing, then you can't truly be happy. "Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild beast or a god." -Aristotle Development AND Awakening; not one or the other, not one above the other. Without practice, exercises, and techniques, there will be no results. Theory alone, while important, will not produce much results. Here are the most important and powerful practices for personal growth: psychedelics, meditation, meditative yoga, journaling, contemplation, self-inquiry, visualization, and solo retreats. Plan to meditate for one hour every day for the rest of your life. Do not turn Actualized.org into an ideology.

Good! Yes! Forget about nonduality and spiral dynamics for a while, and just live life...

That's because there is more to mastery than merely the realization of no-self or nonduality. You'd have to go deeper with your consciousness work and become conscious of what suffering and pain are. Which is NOT the same thing as enlightenment. You can be enlightened, but you do not have total mastery and you are not conscious of everything your body/mind is doing. You are not yet conscious of how you create suffering. Initial stages of enlightenment are very far from mastery of the mind/body. There's still tons of stuff you ain't conscious of. Hence in practice an awoke newbie will still suffer.

@Akuma Can't wait to dive into this! Yeah, I really wish Joe would discover NonDuality already

@Sockrattes The "Absolute" is a word which points to something. That something cannot be symbolized or thought of. It lies beyond concept (and including it). Which means by definition, these machine elves must be a part of the Absolute. Because if they lay outside infinity, then infinity would immediately have to include them to stay infinity. If these machine elves were beyond nonduality, then you'd have to explain what they are and how they got there... Which gives you the same problem doesn't it? The true essence of everything is nothing. Groundless ground. As it must be! Really try to understand this, if you have any questions let me know. These machine elves ARE you. They are projections of infinite consciousness, resulting in a first-person experience or appearance. Does this mean you're going insane? Of course not! By that definition, we're all clinically insane, because this is nothing more than a mass hallucination! There's no objective hallucination that's more valid than the other. It's all you. It's all perception. Be open to the possibility that these elves are trying to tell you something extremely important. And listen with an open mind.

I don't know guys. Now I am thinking that this enlightenment stuff is bullshit. I think that I have gone too far. I want to live a normal life now but I can't do it anymore cause nothing matters to me Anymore. I was committed to this actualized.org way an now I think I have made mistake and I kind of regret . And if this way is false I don't know what way to follow than. I wish right now that I have not known all this stuff. Cause my mind is telling me that I have gone crazy. I think leo might be crazy too. Maybe he has believed all kind if stuped stuff using psychedelics and all this theory And now I have done it also. Cause u can believe whatever u want under this substances. And this thought that I have gone crazy and that I have fucked up my life is always in my mind. And it is growing and growing. And I am afraid where it might lead. And I can't stop it. I don't know how to live anymore. I can't even say to therapist what is wrong with me. I think he will not understand all this nonduality stuff and will think I am crazy and will give me some drugs. I can't say what is wrong with me to my parents and brother and friends cause I was alone in this work. Thay already though I was going crazy with souch meditation and non dual work. And they might be right. And I don't see any way how can I come out of it. So I am here. Daubting meditation. Non dual work. My growth. Leo. This way. Enlightenment. My sanity. Hopeless. Have lost interest in everything. Afraid of staying alone. Afraid of thinking. Ally values, meanings , purpose have gone. It seems I am falling in darchness deeper and deeper and no one is helping me. And that no one really can help me. And I can't help myself eather. I think it will just get worth and darcker and at some point i might end this suffering.

@Hugo Ferraro Thank you for sharing your journey and insights! I'm also in my early journey myself, but I'd like to share my thoughts. First of all, nonduality is not a belief/paradigm. Of course the ego can treat it as one, so watch out for that. But that's only your projection of what you think nonduality is at this stage in your life. A paradigm is a limiting belief system because it takes certain aspects of reality for granted, and usually makes a distinction between "subjective" and "objective." That is not nonduality. Nonduality is the ultimate Truth because it recognizes, cooked deep into the core, that all perspectives are partial. It's not a belief because you can become directly conscious and aware of this truth through a mystical experience. All spirituality points to this. And of course, the Truth cannot be written, spoken, or proven. It cannot be grasped with the human mind, it can only be experienced. And why would you expect anything less from the Absolute? Language, in essence, is made up of symbols that only mean something in relation to each other. Language breaks down at nonduality because it cannot point to itself. It is itself. Try to grasp the significance of this. You're completely right that there's a strong faith component when starting out. It's necessary with any type of experimentation, scientific or spiritual, because you simply don't know unless you do the tests. There's no such thing as faith-free. However, you need to distinguish blind faith from pragmatic faith and finding the answers yourself. Notice that fundamentalist religion is blind faith, and true spirituality (what we're doing here) is pragmatic faith, where faith is a stepping stone to Truth. Also, I don't like to refer to my journey as one towards enlightenment. My journey doesn't end when I reach enlightenment. And more so than that, enlightenment is not a destination. It's right before your eyes, you're just not conscious of it yet. I'm aware that seeking enlightenment is a dangerous trap for the ego, because "seeking" entails an "I don't want to be here" component, or an escape, or a longing. THAT is ego. Be open to the possibility that your drive for enlightenment could be coming from the ego. Because if you truly understood enlightenment, you'd understand that it's right here. All spirituality is, is to work on becoming conscious of what's already here. Enlightenment itself is the end of suffering and longing; complete contentment and peace with what's here. So why do you think you need to search for it? Now I'm not saying this is the case for you, just warning you of a common trap. Good luck!

When a phrase is beyond description, sometimes you give a couple statements: One that is closer to the Truth and one that is next closest to the Truth. A phrase like "the brain does not exist" seems like it can have different meanings / level of understandings. 1) The brain does not exist, because by strict nondual standards, nothing can be said at all. Merely saying "brain" is a step too far. Thus, the brain (or anything) neither has existence or non-existence. 2) The brain does not exist, because by non-strict nondual standards, there is One Everything. If there is One Everything, then there is No Thing - then Everything = No Thing = Nothing. The brain (or any thing) cannot exist separate from One Everything. 3) Since nothing can exist separate from One Everything/Nothing, both nonduality and duality collapse into One. The Absolute and the Relative are One. From the perspective of the Absolute, there is no brain that exists separate from the Absolute. From the perspective of the Relative, the brain does exist if one accepts relative terms. Thus, the brain is neither existence or non-existence and is simultaneously existence and non-existence. 4) All of reality is a like a dream. Literally, none of it exists. It's all an illusion. 5) The "brain" is just a concept that does not physically exist. If we examine a brain very closely with highly technical equipment - beyond atoms and quarks - we find empty space. I've come across all of these explanations and I can "get" each one if I assume different contexts and word usages. Would you say that one or more of the statements are "closer" to the Truth? Are one or more further from the Truth? Do they overlap with each other and kinda say the same thing in different ways? I think this can be an area of confusion for seekers and something I'd like to clarify within my "brain".

By the strictest nonduality standards, nothing can be said at all, really, not even this sentence (so this is already one step down from that strictest standard). And thus nothing can be said of anything, either -- neither existence nor non-existence can be attributed, and no objects can be named. Not even the idea of "object" can be admitted.

By strict nonduality standards, would you say that nothing exists?

Well it's not quite either. Certainly the idea of a radio wave is just a model, but that doesn't mean that only what you experienced exists. Actually a) technically even what you experienced cannot be said to exist if you go by strict nonduality. So if that doesn't exist then neither is there any question of what underlies it. But b) if you do want to say that the experience of the TV turning on does exist, then certainly there is something underlying that experience and which causes it -- that is, the set of universal laws, or else you can call it God's will (my preference). At best we can only make models of this. Thanks. Yeah, I know some people like this model, but not me. There is a single liberation (and not even that!). The mind may "change" after that, but those are not "deeper stages of enlightenment." Those are just the various bindings and tendencies of the mind altering over time. And really, enlightenment is the recognition that the mind itself simply cannot be said to exist.

Ok, thanks for the responses so far, but still and I find this interesting of conversation in general, its so hard to nail down what someone is pointing sometimes. Can you describe more by what you mean as no-thing. Is this a state/experience that is within your every experience. Is it wisdom gained through what you;ve pointed to in Buddhist understanding as everything being relative in relation to something else, conscious/reality, flower/soil/sun/earth, feelings/body/mind. This wisdom is a no-thing? Or is this no-thing an actual understanding of it/oneself/the universe and It being the source of all? See from where I stand, there is never not god/infinity/oneness/nonduality. I see what you've been describing within this bubble since nothing is not that. Absolute is a interesting term I was reflecting on my bike-ride to work after I used the term. It can have isolating/hierarchical interpretations. When understood of what I'm talking about, Absolute is not on this scale, nothing is not Absolute, so all is thus absolute. A baby craving food, is Absolute in that form, having Absolute experience. You or I awakening to this understanding again is Absolute in action as such and this experience is no higher or lower then the babies, its all Absolute/God/Inifinty. Waking up to this understanding as a human is a metaphorical pointing to a actual truth that is not merely just a belief a person/body/mind is having, its pointing like Buddhist believe the sun to rise in the east and set in the west, to a actual occurrence that humans fit within wether we are here or not. This isn't some ignorance arising in the clean eye of no-thingness or a illusion held onto a self for security, which I sometimes get the sense is where your coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong.

An Indian here. To understand General Relativity one doesn't have to learn about Germany, or Jewish culture, because Einstein was Jewish and German. Same applies to non-dual knowledge. Calling it "indian-Nonduality" is the most unfortunate kind of oxymoron. If you understood nonduality such petty discriminations of east and west wont have any place in your psyche. And FYI, most indians dont meditate and they have no idea about nonduality. Most are involved in the bhakti-Hinduism which is no different from any other paganism. Sure there is whip of non-duality here and there but it is more like the relics of once great culture. So dont talk about how one has to learn indian culture to really understand Nonduality. Nothing can be farther from the truth. I lived in india for long, right in the cultural center, and all i saw was religion as usual. Religious gurus nothing different from western televangicals and religion nothing different from a set of rules to be followed with harry-potter-for-adults mythology.

@Ampresus I would be open to all mystics / sages. Engage with what speaks to you - with what resonates with you. That could be insights from nonduality, personal empowerment, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, metaphysics, science, art etc.

The Absolute in none other than all arising contingent phenomena. The Absolute is all that exists. If you can see it, it is the Absolute. Your toilet is the Absolute. If look at your toilet real closely, for a long time, you will realize it is God. That's nonduality. Nothing is hidden or separate.

Ok got it. Often in self inquiry, the very reality of the world is denied to such an extent that i wasnt sure where unifying the subminds--which sounds less metaphysical and more like psychological work--would fit in that picture. But I remember even you saying that this is where 90% of the work lies? Dont get me wrong, i am all about doing the self-inquiry all day long. It's just that i also need a coherent approach to practicalities of life, which often involve such conflicts as 'i want to do but for some reason i am not doing..' . Even Ramana always encouraged his listeners to continue with the household's life and not abandon their worldly duties. And sometimes it is hard to differentiate whether parts of me are just using nonduality as an excuse to further their very egoic agendas.

There is a memory, yet the breakthrough experiences are not like "my experience". There is an embodiment of the direct experience. It goes way beyond a memory. Imagine reaching the consciousness level of a 70 y.o. zen master. Or, a squirrel attaining the consciousness level of a human. It's really hard to explain in reasonable terms. On the other hand, lots of people don't respond well to psychedelics and they can take a person into all sorts of nutty bizarre places irrelevant to nonduality proper. You've got momentum with the self-inquiry. Ride it.

@SoonHei Careful, psychedelics are not necessarily identical to enlightenment. Psychedelics can take you into all sorts of wacky dimensions of consciousness. You have to distinguish those from nonduality proper.

I spent over 20yrs in meditation and buddhism and never got past the "witness + object" stage. The first ego death experiences came with a few solo psychedelic trips, which were so powerful that I took it to the next level by attending an Ayahuasca retreat with a tribe in Peru. It was really intense and beyond any description, yet it was non-abiding - what followed was a period of integration and gradual ego dissolution. Yet for me, the direct experience with ego death greatly accelerated the pace. Baseline consciousness level has increased with meditation, yoga, self inquiry and nonduality teachings. The nondual pyschedelic experiences opened up nondual experiences while sober. They can have anxiety/fear when the ego struggles for control. Yet, over time - they have become more common with less resistance. This is just one approach. There are many. It seems like winterknight's approach is resonating with you. If so, go with that. It just didn't get me over the hump until after a few psychedelic trips - then it started falling in place.

@Antonius 5mg increments sounds good too. If you're going to be experimenting with 5-MeO-DMT in the long term, you might want to think about investing in a quality scale like this American Weigh GeminiPRO - if you're careful with your technique you can take extremely accurate measurements with this scale and others in that quality range. Yeah you summed it up there pretty well there. I've definitely had personal, more grounded insights on 5-MeO-DMT that affected how I interact with the world, but on the whole, you've got the general pattern there: it dives straight into consciousness, nonduality pretty readily.

They are not different enlightenments but one and the same. "Soul" refers to a subtle aspect of the individualized self. That too is eventually transcended into pure nonduality regardless of which path you take. "Soul" is a technical term. It refers to subtle states of consciousness. Nondual is beyond even that. Transcendence goes: Gross >> Subtle >> Causal >> Nondual